The Mystery of the Make-Up Photo - was it taken on the same day as the Last Photo?

Regard skirting board design and colour of paintwork and carpet edge..

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It's the same - no question!

Verdi wrote:Regard skirting board design and colour of paintwork and carpet edge..

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It's the same - no question!

Yep. Well done. Same room. Same carpet as well. Same dress.

Clearly in a living room, not kitchen as I said before.

So we are really down now to discussing just the Make-Up Photo and the Last Photo.

Both in Portugal?

Both on 29 Aprul?

Yes, it's the same room, same carpet and same dress/top and the more I look at the ice lolly pic, that really looks like a rear seat view inside a car. The outside lighting look I mentioned, there is plenty of light in a car with many windows.

I still think that the make-up photo belongs to the holiday, and there aren't many days to choose from. Sunday late afternoon, or early evening?

I'm sorry but if you look at better quality images of the ice cream/lolly photo it just does not look like a car interior at all. More like an exterior shot with blue plastic inflatables  nearby.

What is much much more interesting is whether the 'floating' arm holding the cone has been added. And if so , WHY?

Roxyroo wrote:Substance abuse causes the eyes to dilate wen a drug such as heroin is leaving the body, they go to tiny pin points wen drug is first ingested/being high.Added withdrawal symptoms are yawning and eyes watering. Conversely a drug such as cocaine makes pupils dilate immediately once taken. This line of thought with doc McCann always reminds me of Doctor Shipman, who was a morphine addict. In fact several bottles were found in his garage!

When heroin high wears off the pupils do not dilate as much as we can see on this pic with Gerry. His manical expression and bug eyes together with giant pupils are more typical for stimulant drugs usage. Cocaine, amphetamine and methamphetamine are the most popular stimulants and coke usage is widespread among medical staff.

I'm confused by this thread.

Things have swung from pink straps, hair length, hair beads/clips, a photo that must've been taken in the McCann kitchen except for the fact it wasn't - it was taken in a UK living room (could be anyone's living room btw), medics are notorious coke-heads which allegedly explains GM's dilated pupils, to are we all agreed the Burgau photo (not taken in Burgau btw) was taken on the same day as the last photo which is openly declared as definitely the 29th April.

What does any of this prove?

It's akin to pinning the tail on the donkey.

Just my opinion.

Nina wrote:

Tony Bennett wrote:

JRP wrote:@TonyBennett

Others have pointed out that the skirting board in the "Skirting Board" photo isn't a popular item in Portugal, so I would agree this photo is likely to have been taken in the UK. 

REPLY: Not only that, but there is a another McCann photo taken in their kitchen with exactly the same type of skirting board and coloured wall, so I think we could probably all agree that the 'Floorboard Photo' was taken in the McCanns' kitchen

The car seat theory is interesting. The curve of the blue object top left could be the corner of a side window and rear pillar, the lighter grey/white (very top left) could be the outside world, a pavement or road. The area which is mottled which I took to be blurred concrete next to Madeleine's cheek could be a material covered car door lining. Looking at the other version of this photo, where Madeleine is holding an ice cream cone, her right elbow (our left) is almost resting on something dark grey. A car door arm rest or a child car seat perhaps?

REPLY: Yes, I think all of this is a possibility. Upthread, 'worriedmum' thought that Madeleine was wearing the same dress in the Skirting Board Photo and the Ice Lolly Photo, I think she could be right. That suggests the possibility that those two photos were taken on the same day, maybe one on the kitchen floor and one in a luxury car - is the ochre colour upholstery? - and is the blue behind Madeleine some kind of cloths or cushions?    

I am going with the car window theory. You can even see the highlight of the curve and yes Madeleine does appear to be resting her elbow on something grey. What colour was the McCann's vehicle around 2007, do we know?

Nina!


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Kate & Gerry McCann return to Rothley - September 2007

worriedmum wrote:I'm sorry but if you look at better quality images of the ice cream/lolly photo it just does not look like a car interior at all. More like an exterior shot with blue plastic inflatables  nearby.

What is much much more interesting is whether the 'floating' arm holding the cone has been added. And if so , WHY?

Personally, I think the 'ice-cream cone' image can be entirely eliminated - it's clearly been faked by some prankster.

The possible location of Madeleine sucking a lolly stick I can't be sure.  Firstly I thought blue plastic chair (on it's side?) but the more I look at it the more obscure it appears - it doesn't seem to fit in with the background of any other Madeleine photograph that I recall.

I believe some of the photographs published are featured in the book madeleine by KATE MCCANN which might throw some light on it's origin.  Don't have a hard copy myself - can anyone out there with a copy of the book say one way or the other?

ETA:  I've just seen here the photographs said to be contained in madeleine by KATE MCCANN

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What a bloody fool I am to think that 'madeleine' might actually be about Madeleine.

Nina wrote:

Verdi wrote:

Nina wrote:

Tony Bennett wrote:

JRP wrote:@TonyBennett

Others have pointed out that the skirting board in the "Skirting Board" photo isn't a popular item in Portugal, so I would agree this photo is likely to have been taken in the UK. 

REPLY: Not only that, but there is a another McCann photo taken in their kitchen with exactly the same type of skirting board and coloured wall, so I think we could probably all agree that the 'Floorboard Photo' was taken in the McCanns' kitchen

The car seat theory is interesting. The curve of the blue object top left could be the corner of a side window and rear pillar, the lighter grey/white (very top left) could be the outside world, a pavement or road. The area which is mottled which I took to be blurred concrete next to Madeleine's cheek could be a material covered car door lining. Looking at the other version of this photo, where Madeleine is holding an ice cream cone, her right elbow (our left) is almost resting on something dark grey. A car door arm rest or a child car seat perhaps?

REPLY: Yes, I think all of this is a possibility. Upthread, 'worriedmum' thought that Madeleine was wearing the same dress in the Skirting Board Photo and the Ice Lolly Photo, I think she could be right. That suggests the possibility that those two photos were taken on the same day, maybe one on the kitchen floor and one in a luxury car - is the ochre colour upholstery? - and is the blue behind Madeleine some kind of cloths or cushions?    

I am going with the car window theory. You can even see the highlight of the curve and yes Madeleine does appear to be resting her elbow on something grey. What colour was the McCann's vehicle around 2007, do we know?

Nina!


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Kate & Gerry McCann return to Rothley - September 2007

So they already had this car prior to PdL? Then I suggest the skirting board photo and this were taken at the same time at Rothley.
Just to add.............Kate sits between the twins, where did Madeleine used to sit?

My first thought was why is she sitting in the back - another tantrum?  However, if you notice the passenger door is open so I presume they were waiting for someone.  Earlier I did see another image showing Gerald at the wheel with an unidentified man in the passenger seat - needless to say now I can't find it.

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Grandma H.

Verdi wrote:

Nina wrote:

Verdi wrote:

Nina wrote:

Tony Bennett wrote:

JRP wrote:@TonyBennett

Others have pointed out that the skirting board in the "Skirting Board" photo isn't a popular item in Portugal, so I would agree this photo is likely to have been taken in the UK. 

REPLY: Not only that, but there is a another McCann photo taken in their kitchen with exactly the same type of skirting board and coloured wall, so I think we could probably all agree that the 'Floorboard Photo' was taken in the McCanns' kitchen

The car seat theory is interesting. The curve of the blue object top left could be the corner of a side window and rear pillar, the lighter grey/white (very top left) could be the outside world, a pavement or road. The area which is mottled which I took to be blurred concrete next to Madeleine's cheek could be a material covered car door lining. Looking at the other version of this photo, where Madeleine is holding an ice cream cone, her right elbow (our left) is almost resting on something dark grey. A car door arm rest or a child car seat perhaps?

REPLY: Yes, I think all of this is a possibility. Upthread, 'worriedmum' thought that Madeleine was wearing the same dress in the Skirting Board Photo and the Ice Lolly Photo, I think she could be right. That suggests the possibility that those two photos were taken on the same day, maybe one on the kitchen floor and one in a luxury car - is the ochre colour upholstery? - and is the blue behind Madeleine some kind of cloths or cushions?    

I am going with the car window theory. You can even see the highlight of the curve and yes Madeleine does appear to be resting her elbow on something grey. What colour was the McCann's vehicle around 2007, do we know?

Nina!


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Kate & Gerry McCann return to Rothley - September 2007

So they already had this car prior to PdL? Then I suggest the skirting board photo and this were taken at the same time at Rothley.
Just to add.............Kate sits between the twins, where did Madeleine used to sit?

My first thought was why is she sitting in the back - another tantrum?  However, if you notice the passenger door is open so I presume they were waiting for someone.  Earlier I did see another image showing Gerald at the wheel with an unidentified man in the passenger seat - needless to say now I can't find it.

Did Kate get out of her front seat and sit in the back with the twins, playing  the good mother for the sake of the cameras?

The blue in the make up photo is similar to that on the bumpers on the twins cots, a shirt worn by David Payne and a sofa that the McCanns were later interviewed on.  I will provide pics later.

aquila wrote:I'm confused by this thread.

Things have swung from pink straps, hair length, hair beads/clips, a photo that must've been taken in the McCann kitchen except for the fact it wasn't - it was taken in a UK living room (could be anyone's living room btw), medics are notorious coke-heads which allegedly explains GM's dilated pupils, to are we all agreed the Burgau photo (not taken in Burgau btw) was taken on the same day as the last photo which is openly declared as definitely the 29th April.

What does any of this prove?

It's akin to pinning the tail on the donkey.

Just my opinion.

@ aquila    I fear that on this occasion, and on a previous post of yours upthread, you have missed the entire point of this thread.

Contrary to your claims that it's like 'pinning the tail on the donkey', I regard it as a concerted effort by many members here to get to the heart of the issues in this case.

We have very few forensic clues in this case, but photographs of Madeleine certainly give us all a forensic resource to analyse. Just like the two long 'Last Photo' threads, this is a 'forensic analysis' thread in the very best traditions of CMOMM - which is one of the key reasons why CMOMM remains such a popular and well-read forum.

On the Last Photo threads, where there was vigorous debate, clear evidence (though not amounting to absolute proof) emerged that the Last Photo was (a) a genuine photo, not photoshopped and (b) was probably taken on Sunday 29 April. For that we have to thank PeterMac for a huge amount of original research and several other regular members here who also brought us evidence and analysis pointing to the same conclusion.

In the OP, I presented 4 photos:
1. Make-Up Photo
2. Last Photo
3. Skirting Board Photo and
4. Ice Lolly Photo.

Where the thread has got us so far:

Thanks to many informed and perceptive contributions on this thread, this is where we are (I am open to correction)

A. The Skirting Board Photo and the Ice Lolly Photo were almost certainly taken at the McCanns' home, but possibly in another English home. They are therefore largely irrelevant to the issues surrounding the Make-Up Photo

B. We are already in possession of good evidence that the Last Photo was taken on Sunday 29 April

C. It is agreed by all (I think) that the McCanns have not given us correct information about the Make-Up Photo, especially about how Madeleine came to have a necklace, a hair bead and blue eye shadow on her, and also about when and where it was taken  

D. It is agreed by all (except one) I think that the Make-Up Photo was taken in Portugal and therefore must have been taken somewhere between 28 April and 3 May 2007

E. It is agreed by all (except one) that - for reasons of Madeleine's hair length and the presence of a hair bead in both photos - that the Make-Up Photo could well have been taken in Praia da Luz on Sunday 29 April.

It may be that we have got as far as we can on these issues, but surely you cannot deny the momentous significance of the possibility that both the Last Photo and the Make-Up Photo were both taken on Sunday 29 April?

I agree that it is great that posters are prepared to give their time and effort to analyse all photos in the truth to find out what happened to Maddie and respect to Maymuse for being prepared to voice her lone opinion, that can sometimes be difficult.

It seems that aquila does not 100% agree either.

I still have to wonder though why these questions about the photos and statements have not been put to them by the officers of SY at the beginning of the investigation?

I think the blue thing on this picture is a towel,hanging over a plastic chair on a veranda or a balcony.

Think about it.
When you are on a suntrip,where do hang your towel for drying?

Do you think it´s confortable to sit on a plastic chair in shorts,bikini or a swimmingsuit?
I don´t and I usually use a towel to sit on.

Just as an after thought ,the small lolly that child ha in mouth ,that size is often a sweetie type ,not ice ,first picture of her with icecream cone ,is same ,so not certain what it means . joyce1938

I have been reading back over comments on the 'ice lolly' photo here and I observed that people suggested her arm appears to be resting on the inside of a car.

I would point out that this observation is more based on the 'ice cream photo'. If you look at the ice lolly photo as posted by Tony on the first page, neither of her elbows are visible.

However I think I may have found a good candidate for this photo location. Here is another of those 'lesser seen' photos, which I have editted slightly out of respect (as she is wearing nothing waist up in the full photo).

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When comparing with the ice lolly photo, note;

 - possible grass surface/lawn
 - blue item to the right in hammock photo, possibly a paddling pool - is it the same as the ice lolly 'blue item'?

I'm not aware of where this photo came from, as I found it in a [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] which I happened across. Nor can I say whose garden it is - are there any photos of the Rothley back garden? It vaguely fits on Google Earth for whatever that's worth.

Obviously the colour is different due to the lack of quality in the hammock photo. If it's the same this would confirm the ice lolly photo having been taken in England.

In 'The hammock Photo' ( above) who is the little boy ? It doesn't look like one of the twins to me ................too old really compared to Madeleine in the foreground who I guess is in her early threes. The question is probably not relevant to the thread but I'd like to know the answer .  He's very much like Madeleine so I guess it's a relative.

sharonl wrote:
Did Kate get out of her front seat and sit in the back with the twins, playing  the good mother for the sake of the cameras?

Ah ha - good thinking!  I note Gerald's strategically placed hand on the wheel prominently displaying a 'good quality wrist band'.  What an excellent marketing ploy!

Found it - or at least something similar..

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Said to be leaving Rothley house on 12th September 2007.

Verdi wrote:Found it - or at least something similar..

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Said to be leaving Rothley house on 12th September 2007.

Whoever the man was, you can see the reflection of his jacket in the open car door in the photo up page. Looks like he is wearing blue jeans/slacks, looks biggish, so perhaps he needed all the front seat. His arms are tight in the jacket sleeve too.

I would hazard a guess to the man in the Blue VW as one  Alex Woolfall PR man?

Nina wrote:

Verdi wrote:Regard skirting board design and colour of paintwork and carpet edge..

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It's the same - no question!

Yes you can just see the edge of the pink rug/carpet. Good spot Verdi. Now is it Rothley or possibly the Grandparent's house?

There is another photo on the web of Madeleine in the same outfit standing in front of which looks like wooden cupboards, maybe part of a kitchen or a dresser? I do not know how to upload the photo maybe someone else could if it is still of interest to determine whether it was taken in Rothley or not. I did read somewhere that the football photo was taken not long before visiting Portugal but forget where.

Both pictures seem to be in same room ,carpet I think same ,most likely taken at home in England ,before their holidays . If its a kitchen ,it must be kitchen/dinning area . joyce1938

Tony Bennett wrote:

aquila wrote:I'm confused by this thread.

Things have swung from pink straps, hair length, hair beads/clips, a photo that must've been taken in the McCann kitchen except for the fact it wasn't - it was taken in a UK living room (could be anyone's living room btw), medics are notorious coke-heads which allegedly explains GM's dilated pupils, to are we all agreed the Burgau photo (not taken in Burgau btw) was taken on the same day as the last photo which is openly declared as definitely the 29th April.

What does any of this prove?

It's akin to pinning the tail on the donkey.

Just my opinion.

@ aquila    I fear that on this occasion, and on a previous post of yours upthread, you have missed the entire point of this thread.

Contrary to your claims that it's like 'pinning the tail on the donkey', I regard it as a concerted effort by many members here to get to the heart of the issues in this case.

We have very few forensic clues in this case, but photographs of Madeleine certainly give us all a forensic resource to analyse. Just like the two long 'Last Photo' threads, this is a 'forensic analysis' thread in the very best traditions of CMOMM - which is one of the key reasons why CMOMM remains such a popular and well-read forum.

On the Last Photo threads, where there was vigorous debate, clear evidence (though not amounting to absolute proof) emerged that the Last Photo was (a) a genuine photo, not photoshopped and (b) was probably taken on Sunday 29 April. For that we have to thank PeterMac for a huge amount of original research and several other regular members here who also brought us evidence and analysis pointing to the same conclusion.

In the OP, I presented 4 photos:
1. Make-Up Photo
2. Last Photo
3. Skirting Board Photo and
4. Ice Lolly Photo.

Where the thread has got us so far:

Thanks to many informed and perceptive contributions on this thread, this is where we are (I am open to correction)

A. The Skirting Board Photo and the Ice Lolly Photo were almost certainly taken at the McCanns' home, but possibly in another English home. They are therefore largely irrelevant to the issues surrounding the Make-Up Photo

B. We are already in possession of good evidence that the Last Photo was taken on Sunday 29 April

C. It is agreed by all (I think) that the McCanns have not given us correct information about the Make-Up Photo, especially about how Madeleine came to have a necklace, a hair bead and blue eye shadow on her, and also about when and where it was taken  

D. It is agreed by all (except one) I think that the Make-Up Photo was taken in Portugal and therefore must have been taken somewhere between 28 April and 3 May 2007

E. It is agreed by all (except one) that - for reasons of Madeleine's hair length and the presence of a hair bead in both photos - that the Make-Up Photo could well have been taken in Praia da Luz on Sunday 29 April.

It may be that we have got as far as we can on these issues, but surely you cannot deny the momentous significance of the possibility that both the Last Photo and the Make-Up Photo were both taken on Sunday 29 April?

At the end of it all, what's left is there is an historical weather forecast for the 29th (not taken in PdL apart from someone who logged weather records in a diary) and no photographs of the 3rd May backed up by any photographs taken by holidaymakers/other people in PdL.

Now we have the make-up photo - and I fully understand the implications that it might have been taken in PdL along with a faked time script for the last photo.

However, all I see is something that means nothing because it can't be proven. It doesn't mean people shouldn't try. It's just my opinion.



I know I'm a bit of a ratbag but sometimes I despair at going over the same things time after time and getting nowhere.

It has always been my belief that paedophilia is at the heart of what happened to Madeleine McCann. I have swayed my opinion over the years and have come back to the original. I've read and listened to lots of people. I can think of no other reason to cover up a child's disappearance.

MayMuse wrote:
There is another photo on the web of Madeleine in the same outfit standing in front of which looks like wooden cupboards, maybe part of a kitchen or a dresser? I do not know how to upload the photo maybe someone else could if it is still of interest to determine whether it was taken in Rothley or not. I did read somewhere that the football photo was taken not long before visiting Portugal but forget where.

Do you mean this MayMuse..

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I've always thought this image to be a bit weird - something surreal about it.