LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Portia wrote:

Newintown wrote:

jeanmonroe wrote:

stillsloppingout wrote:It had been mentioned on this forum ,would under oath would they she mention the A word .
well there is your answer .
Throw in Gerrys trying to get his dogs point over, so the press would pick up on it( and create doubt about there reliability in the minds off the masses ,) because Gerry's word is always reported as gospel.
pity GO cannot take the stand major mistake that.

I REMIND everyone that THEY (G&KM) did NOT utter the 'A' words, in relation to Madeleine, under OATH, at Leveson.

I'm beginning to think that GA has played a 'blinder' by letting them 'take the stand' in Portugal and be questioned by a Judge, in a court, under oath.

He KNEW, just KNEW, their mouths would run away with BS.

Seems he was right.

GA has been 'dealing' with 'dodgy geezers' all his life, in his occupation, as a Police Officer.

KM has just about 'destroyed' their case against him, all by herself!

NO 'depression'
NO 'insommnia'
NO 'destroyed from social standing'
NO 'abduction' just a 'hypothesis'
No 'expertise' on EVRD dogs.
etc.,

I'd say, at present,

GA 7  McCanns 1 (well, they did turn up after all with their BS!)

All imo, obviously!

Did you mean Portugal not Leveson?

Anyway, GM did mention abduction outside the court though to the waiting press (I don't know if that makes any difference to the libel hearing) -

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

UPDATES ONLY LIBEL TRIAL 8TH JULY 2014

ultimaThule wrote:

snipped/

Gerry McCann: Well, you know, we can't comment on any specific details but what we are more than happy to say is we're really, really pleased that there is active investigation going on and, you know, it's taken a long time - the Met have been reviewing things for three years. Errr... We've had feedback from the Metropolitan Police - they were pleased with the way things have gone, errm... and we want that work to continue. There are a lot of lines of inquiry that need followed and, as parents, I mean, what we're... what we've asked for all along really is that anything that is reasonable to be done that may help find Madeleine and catch those responsible for her abduction is done. And, as parents, that's all we're asking and we felt there was a lot to be done and we... we want to make it clear, you know, it is a very complex investigation. It's a huge dossier, errm... and we just want as much as possible to be worked through.
Martin Brunt: Kate, what do you feel you've...
Portuguese journalist: [talking over] Do you think those steps in Algarve from British investigators... investigators can help repair all the damage the book and the documentary made, or do you see or hear that people in the Algarve start to say: "What are we doing here?"
Gerry McCann: Well, I think the worse thing is, that we were told that, errr... someone in Praia da Luz wrote: 'The parents are murderers', when this work was taking place, and if that is reflected, errr... in the general population it's devastating.
Kate McCann: I mean, that was spray painted on the wall in Luz, just a few weeks ago.
Gerry McCann: So, I mean, what we hope... we think, you know, there has been a tremendous amount of damage but we hope the public - the general population - will see the PJ are investigating, the Metropolitan Police are investigating, they will look at it and say what the criminal file said. You know, we... we don't know whether Madeleine's alive or dead but there is no evidence that she's dead and she's a missing child, and she's completely innocent. And more importantly than... well, there's... for us, there's nothing more important than that, but the next more important thing is whoever took Madeleine is still out there, and whoever that person is, or... or persons, they must have been laughing during these last six years, at what's been told in the book - that there was no abduction, that there's... you know, there's no predator out there. There is. And he may s... he, or she, or they, may strike again. And, you know, there's an unsolved serious crime and there's a series of other crimes against children which have come to light, errm... who have been on holiday. So, you know, at the very least, these people need to be brought to justice.

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GM may not have actually said the word "abduction" in court, but he is still spouting it on the steps of the court, which is on tape never to be forgotten.  I wonder how that would be perceived by the Judge, seeing it is a complete contradiction as to what KM spouted in court.

The Judge, interrogating KH, tellingly used the word 'disappearance' herself, immediately to be corrected by KH saying 'abducted' in het answer

I wasn't aware of that.  It wasn't in the transcript I read on this forum.  Is there an up to date transcript now?

ETA: I'm confused now, why would KH say "abducted" to the Judge when she said the abduction was only a hypothesis as reported in the Court proceedings in an earlier post?

Are there two different versions of the Court proceedings?

inspirespirit wrote:Anyone else think she looks on the edge of cracking?  Have to say I'm slightly concerned for her own safety.  Hell of a thing to have lived with all these years, and let's face it 'they' aren't going to let her spill the beans.    

Inspirespirit, she looks so tormented, as if she doesn't know which way to turn, and being the person I am, I feel for her. I am of the opinion that KM would have revealed all at the very beginning, but GM took control and put KM in a position where she must have felt like a rabbit trapped in the headlights. I noticed, when they were questioning GM outside the court this week, some journalist asked KM a question, but GM made sure Kate wouldn't have a chance to answer any questions. As for the body language between KM and GM, it's been glaring for many years, when they think that the cameras are off them, that things aren't all they would like us to think they are.

Newintown

At Leveson only Leveson himself and Mr Sherborne and Mr Jay used the 'abduction' word, iirc.

istbc.

I know he said 'abduction' OUTSIDE court, he always does.

You can say what you like outside the courts, but lying on oath is a different matter. Does Portugal have some penalty for perjury? It's taken very seriously in the UK.

jeanmonroe wrote:Newintown

At Leveson only Leveson himself and Mr Sherborne and Mr Jay used the 'abduction' word, iirc.

istbc.

I know he said 'abduction' OUTSIDE court, he always does.

OK, I got confused.  I thought we were referring to the Libel proceedings and I wasn't sure where Leveson came into it.    

What does "istbc" mean by the way?  I'm not up to date with internet jargon.  I'm always behind the times.

Joana Morais ‏@xklamation · 13 hrs
Kate #McCann court declaration in full now available [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] …

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Not come across "istbc" before, Newintown, but I think it must be "I stand to be corrected".

sallypelt wrote:

inspirespirit wrote:Anyone else think she looks on the edge of cracking?  Have to say I'm slightly concerned for her own safety.  Hell of a thing to have lived with all these years, and let's face it 'they' aren't going to let her spill the beans.    

Inspirespirit, she looks so tormented, as if she doesn't know which way to turn, and being the person I am, I feel for her.  I am of the opinion that KM would have revealed all at the very beginning, but GM took control and put KM in a position where  she must have felt  like a rabbit trapped in the headlights. I noticed, when they were questioning GM outside the court this week, some journalist asked KM a question, but GM made sure Kate wouldn't have a chance to answer any questions. As for the body language between KM and GM, it's been glaring for many years, when they think that the cameras are off them, that things aren't all they would like us to think they are.

I totally agree with you Sallypelt.  That is exactly what I think.  Someone over on one of the fb pages said she goes to the same swimming club and KM apparently sits in silence looking gaunt and haunted.  I really do think she is terrified to talk and he is terrified to allow her to talk in case she slips up, hence she didn't answer the 48 questions, no doubt on his command.   If only she had just been honest at the beginning.... even if she had done something terrible to Madeleine, she could well of been suffering post natal depression. The courts would have been sympathetic and she would probably have just needed psychiatric help.  As it is, if it all comes out now, especially if there are 'other' reasons that couldn't have come out, they will probably all go down for a long long time.  Therefore, the more she looks like cracking, the more the chances of an 'accident' or something 'resembling' suicide, imo.

What did Gerry say that it's taking so long to transcribe   

Portia wrote:

The Judge, interrogating KH, tellingly used the word 'disappearance' herself, immediately to be corrected by KH saying 'abducted' in het answer

Can you please indicate where in the transcript of KH's testimony this exchange took place, Portia?

inspirespirit wrote:

sallypelt wrote:

inspirespirit wrote:Anyone else think she looks on the edge of cracking?  Have to say I'm slightly concerned for her own safety.  Hell of a thing to have lived with all these years, and let's face it 'they' aren't going to let her spill the beans.    

Inspirespirit, she looks so tormented, as if she doesn't know which way to turn, and being the person I am, I feel for her.  I am of the opinion that KM would have revealed all at the very beginning, but GM took control and put KM in a position where  she must have felt  like a rabbit trapped in the headlights. I noticed, when they were questioning GM outside the court this week, some journalist asked KM a question, but GM made sure Kate wouldn't have a chance to answer any questions. As for the body language between KM and GM, it's been glaring for many years, when they think that the cameras are off them, that things aren't all they would like us to think they are.

I totally agree with you Sallypelt.  That is exactly what I think.  Someone over on one of the fb pages said she goes to the same swimming club and KM apparently sits in silence looking gaunt and haunted.  I really do think she is terrified to talk and he is terrified to allow her to talk in case she slips up, hence she didn't answer the 48 questions, no doubt on his command.   If only she had just been honest at the beginning.... even if she had done something terrible to Madeleine, she could well of been suffering post natal depression. The courts would have been sympathetic and she would probably have just needed psychiatric help.  As it is, if it all comes out now, especially if there are 'other' reasons that couldn't have come out, they will probably all go down for a long long time.  Therefore, the more she looks like cracking, the more the chances of an 'accident' or something 'resembling' suicide, imo.

she has already said she wishes she can press a button and it all be over.
I don't think it will be long before she cracks...
How she has managed to live that way for so long is beyond me (most people)

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Not come across "istbc" before, Newintown, but I think it must be "I stand to be corrected".

Thanks.  It takes a lot of keeping up with all the acronyms used.

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Not come across "istbc" before, Newintown, but I think it must be "I stand to be corrected".

Well, that lady wins........ a ROSE!   

If only she had just been honest at the beginning.... even if she had done something terrible to Madeleine, she could well of been suffering post natal depression. The courts would have been sympathetic and she would probably have just needed psychiatric help.

I agree here. A friend's wife suffered. PND is not just 'the blues'; it's a serious condition which doesn't just go away after a few weeks and needs treatment.

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THANKS TO THE EXCELLENT JOANA M.

   

What follows is the recount of what happened yesterday at court, to the best of my knowledge and short handwritten notes.

The Judge at the beginning of hearing sessions spoke and instructed the scribe about the request that had been made by Gonçalo Amaral’s previous lawyer so the defendant could be heard in court. That request was opposed by the McCann couple’s lawyer, Isabel Duarte, and had been previously denied by the Judge in 2013.

The McCann couple, who had also requested to be heard in court, saw their application being refused as well. Yet they pleaded against that decision to the Appeals court and their request was granted, therefore they were now authorized to be heard in court, which is what takes place after this “introductory” instruction by the lady Judge, Maria Emília de Melo e Castro.

The Judge then added that since Gonçalo Amaral’s former lawyer did not oppose to the ruling - which refused his request to be heard - a new appeal opposing it [the Judge's ruling] could no longer be accepted, and therefore that decision had now become final.

The Judge continues instructing the scribe and states that the authors of the lawsuit - the McCann couple - have requested the court to solicit an official application to ATA [Autoridade Tributária Aduaneira] i.e. the Portuguese equivalent to the IRS, in order to obtain confidential fiscal information.

The Judge Maria Emília de Melo e Castro authorized and ordered for the dispatch to be prepared “since it is essential to know, within the scope of the case being analysed here at the court, what are the eventual earnings” of the defendant Gonçalo Amaral regarding the sales of the book ‘Maddie, A Verdade da Mentira’.

The Judge then added that the court dismissed the need to observe the confidentiality of that fiscal information in view of the fact that “the acquirement of that evidence” is crucial and ruled that the other defendant parties have 10 days to oppose the McCann’s lawyer request. That meant that the hearing session of yesterday's afternoon, where Isabel Duarte was supposed to make her final allegations for a period of three hours was adjourned sine die [without a definite date scheduled] and so was the hearing session of the 10th of July. Due to the judicial holidays it's very likely that the trial will only continue in or after September. The Judge also mentions that in September alterations will be made to the Penal Code Process but those changes will not affect in any way the ongoing trial.

Earlier on this year, the only defendant party opposing the McCann’s fiscal request was the lawyer for the Guerra e Paz book publishers who argued that this new application would cause an unnecessary lengthening of the trial.

Follows Kate Healy and Gerry McCann declarations to court in strict compliance to Portuguese law. A declaration is a series of answers to questions put by the Judge, and of questions from the accusation or/and defendant lawyers.

The couple decided to ask if they could make a further statement at the end of each declaration, these statements will not be considered and will have no reflection on the trial outcome even though they were recorded by the scribe.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Court outline

Kate Healy enters the court room, stands at a chair directly in front of the Judge Maria Emília de Melo e Castro, standing at her right side is a lady interpreter that will translate the questions put to Kate and her answers back in Portuguese Brazilian to the Judge and lawyers, on Kate's left side is the scribe. On the left side of Kate McCann, sits the lawyer Dr. Miguel Coroadinha, Isabel Duarte's assistant Dr. Ricardo Afonso and Dr. Isabel Duarte. Opposite to the McCann couple's lawyer is the lawyer for VC Filmes, Dr. Henrique Costa Pinto, then Dr. Fátima de Oliveira Esteves, Gonçalo Amaral's new lawyer Dr. Miguel Rodrigues and Mr. Amaral. In the gallery there was a wide range of people, from British journalists, to Mr. Amaral supporters, to the McCanns' entourage.

The Judge tells Kate McCann that she is obliged to speak with truth during her declaration. Kate then promises under oath to tell the truth and the whole truth. The Judge questions her about her name. Kate replies that it is "Kate Healy". The Judge wonders why she doesn't have the name McCann as her last name, she states that she still uses her maiden name. Kate is then asked about her home address, and her employment status to which she replies that she is a "general practitioner" and that she has stopped working since Madeleine was "abducted". The Judge orders Kate Healy to sit down so the declaration can proceed.

("abducted" IN inverted commas.)

Judge - Do you recall when the book was first published and when you first heard about it?

Kate Healy - A few months after it was published.

Judge - Did you read the book and when?

Kate Healy - I first read extracts from the book in media reports and then on the internet around the end of 2008.

Judge - How and what did you feel?

Kate Healy - Devastated, I already had an idea but it made me feel desperate because of the injustice done to my family, to Madeleine. I felt anxious. It damaged our family.

Judge - What sort of damages?

Kate Healy - Mr. Amaral's book stated as fact that we were involved in the disappearance of our daughter and faked an abduction, it attacked us systematically.

Judge - What were the damages in Portugal?

Kate Healy - The book was read by thousands of people, people would believe, due to the author's credibility, that Madeleine was dead and that we were involved. People, neighbours on the street, in coffee shops believed Mr. Amaral. And for us Portugal was the most important place. It was here that Madeleine was taken from us.

Judge - Do you remember a documentary?

Kate Healy - I learned about it through Portuguese friends who watched it on TVI, they texted me saying the documentary was horrible. On the following day they sent me detailed annotations.

Judge - Did you watch the documentary?

Kate Healy - I watched some parts of the documentary on the media and then the full documentary on the net.

Judge - What did you feel about the documentary when compared to the book?

Kate Healy - It was worst in terms of damages, because it was more definitive, Mr. Amaral's assumptions were more unequivocal, it led the audience in a journey of certainties. It compounded to the anxiety and feeling of injustice at a time when we were the only ones making efforts to find Madeleine. There was no police force investigating and it damaged the searches.

Judge - Do you recall an interview that Mr. Amaral gave to Correio da Manhã? [You can read it here, from July 24, 2008]

Kate Healy - He gave several interviews but I do recall one in particular which was exaggerated. Where he said that Madeleine's body had been kept frozen and then taken inside the boot of the car we had rented seven weeks later [sic, car was rented 23 days later].

Judge - How did you learn about that interview?

Kate Healy - Some friends in Portugal sent us the translations, they made summaries of what was published by the Portuguese media.

Judge - When did you learn about that interview?

Kate Healy - Right after the documentary was broadcast.

Judge - What is your impression about what the Portuguese people think of you and your husband regarding this case?

Kate Healy - Most people are against us. The damages were more extensive because Mr. Amaral published his book in various languages and gave interviews.

Judge - What do were your feelings regarding that?

Kate Healy - We needed the help and support of the Portuguese. We felt distressed with the negative opinion people had of us. It was stressful.

Judge - You felt ashamed by it?

Kate Healy - That is not the right word for it. People thought that we were bad parents.

Judge - In the thesis presented on the book it is claimed that you hid the body, do you think people thought that you were cowards?

Kate Healy - It was worst than that.

Judge - Do you suffer from insomnia?

Kate Healy - No, not as much as I did in 2008, 2009, because then the efforts that we did were boycotted by Mr. Amaral's book. We were desperate to find Madeleine. I felt that he destroyed our hypothesis.

Judge - Do the twins know about the book and about the documentary?

Kate Healy - They know about them but they don't know the details. They understand why we are here today.

Judge - So they have an idea?

Kate Healy - In October last year my son Sean asked me why did Mr. Amaral said that we had hid Madeleine's body. I told him that Mr. Amaral says many silly things.

Judge - How did he know about that?

Kate Healy - I think he heard it in the radio, in the school bus.

Judge - What have you done to protect the twins?

Kate Healy - We arranged for them to have psychological support, David Trickey a child psychologist told us that we should answer the twins questions with honesty and let them speak about it if they wished to. We also had to make arrangements with their school and supervise the twins access to the internet in school and at home. The book is already very distressing for an adult and it's even worse for a child.

Judge - Were you diagnosed with a clinical depression?

Kate Healy - No. Depression is over-diagnosed, over used term to diagnose those who feel a bit down, clinically I wasn't depressed.

Judge - There is a quote attributed to you - did you ever say that you wished you were in a coma so you wouldn't suffer?

Kate Healy - Yes.

Judge - Did that have to do with the disappearance of your child, or with the book and the documentary?

Kate Healy - Both were overwhelming, but it was intensified when the book was published.

Judge - How old are the twins?

Kate Healy - They are nine years old.

Judge - What year are they at school?

Kate Healy - Fifth grade.

Judge - In what year did they start at school?

Kate Healy - When they were 4 years old at the end of August 2009.

Judge Maria Emília de Melo e Castro allows a question put by Dr. Isabel Duarte - What were the reactions to the book and to the documentary in England?

Kate Healy - The reactions were less negative than in Portugal, due to the newspapers in England who were sued for defamatory articles, those articles weren't based on evidence. We have people that monitor the internet and there are groups of people, like the 'Madeleine Foundation' who have caused us great distress by publishing Mr. Amaral's theories on the internet, which has compounded to our vilification.

Judge - What is the 'Madeleine Foundation'?

Kate Healy - They are a group of people who believes and promotes Mr. Amaral's theories. They even distributed leaflets in our home town at a time when our children were starting school.

Judge - What is the connection between them and the book or the documentary? Did they appear afterwards?

Kate Healy - I think they already existed as a group, the book just added more fuel to the fire. They even invited Mr. Amaral to go to England for a conference, they kept promoting his theories.

Dr. Isabel Duarte - Were there threats?

Judge - [to Isabel Duarte] That is not material to the case being discussed in this court. [rejects the question]

Judge - [to Kate Healy] On the subject of your children, of Sean, where there any repercussions?

Kate Healy - At that time no. The twins ask questions, and following David Trickey's advice we answer their questions only then, instead of giving them information.

Judge - Did Sean speak to you about the case again?

Kate Healy - No, he never spoke again, it was just that one time.

The Judge Maria Emília de Melo e Castro allows a question put by Dr. Miguel Rodrigues - What caused you to feel more distressed - a) The disappearance of your daughter? b) to be constituted as an arguida? c) or the book and the documentary?

Kate Healy - There is nothing worse than loosing a child, and that pain was amplified by both the book and the documentary.

Dr. Miguel Rodrigues - The authors of this lawsuit speak of social destruction. However didn't you have the support of many celebrities? Namely of Angelina Jolie in August 2008? [see article - Jolie’s support to Maddie mum]

Kate Healy - I don't recall Angelina Jolie but we were given support by various celebrities.

Dr. Miguel Rodrigues - Do you recall an event that took place in December 8, 2008 of about twenty thousand people who got together to pray for Madeleine? [see article - Thousands join East Lancashire group's prayers for Madeleine McCann]

Kate Healy - No, I don't remember that. Where did that took place?

Dr. Miguel Rodrigues - In the UK.

Kate Healy - Obviously there are people who have always prayed and will continue to pray for Madeleine.

Dr.Miguel Rodrigues - Did you not receive the support of Missing People UK, when they created a fund raising gala dinner to commemorate the 1,000th days since the disappearance of Madeleine? [see the McCann Files - The 1,000 Day Anniversary Events in January 2010]

Kate Healy - Yes I did.

Judge - Very well, no one else has questions. [To the interpreter] Please tell the lady that she is excused.

Kate Healy - May I say something?

Judge - You may.

Kate Healy - I believe in freedom of expression I don't believe in the freedom to defame.

Judge - Very well. This court will now hold a break of a few minutes and then we will proceed with Mr. Gerald McCann declaration.

ongoing

Dont Make Me Laff wrote:

inspirespirit wrote:

sallypelt wrote:

inspirespirit wrote:Anyone else think she looks on the edge of cracking?  Have to say I'm slightly concerned for her own safety.  Hell of a thing to have lived with all these years, and let's face it 'they' aren't going to let her spill the beans.    

Inspirespirit, she looks so tormented, as if she doesn't know which way to turn, and being the person I am, I feel for her.  I am of the opinion that KM would have revealed all at the very beginning, but GM took control and put KM in a position where  she must have felt  like a rabbit trapped in the headlights. I noticed, when they were questioning GM outside the court this week, some journalist asked KM a question, but GM made sure Kate wouldn't have a chance to answer any questions. As for the body language between KM and GM, it's been glaring for many years, when they think that the cameras are off them, that things aren't all they would like us to think they are.

I totally agree with you Sallypelt.  That is exactly what I think.  Someone over on one of the fb pages said she goes to the same swimming club and KM apparently sits in silence looking gaunt and haunted.  I really do think she is terrified to talk and he is terrified to allow her to talk in case she slips up, hence she didn't answer the 48 questions, no doubt on his command.   If only she had just been honest at the beginning.... even if she had done something terrible to Madeleine, she could well of been suffering post natal depression. The courts would have been sympathetic and she would probably have just needed psychiatric help.  As it is, if it all comes out now, especially if there are 'other' reasons that couldn't have come out, they will probably all go down for a long long time.  Therefore, the more she looks like cracking, the more the chances of an 'accident' or something 'resembling' suicide, imo.

she has already said she wishes she can press a button and it all be over.
I don't think it will be long before she cracks...
How she has managed to live that way for so long is beyond me (most people)

Well, she's managed it for 7 years and spent £millions on who knows what.  She only has herself and GM to blame for whatever misery she's going through.

It doesn't compare one iota with the misery Madeleine must have gone through and the misery both of them have put other people through to keep up their pretence of being "perfect" parents.

They've now implicated the bus driver of the bus the twins travel on to school.  I wonder how long it will be before he's hunted down and named in the press, whether or not he had the radio on won't matter to the press.

But KM said (under oath) she had never suffered with depression  didn't she?

Is it Gerry who suffered from insomnia, lack of appetite and depression then?

PeterMac wrote:

Dont Make Me Laff wrote:But KM said (under oath) she had never suffered with depression  didn't she?

And in her Vountary Statement, ( Prosecution Exhibit KH 1)

"Wild stories were appearing in the papers about my ‘fragile’ mental state, my ‘inability to cope’ with my ‘hyperactive’ children, eating disorders and sedatives. All complete bullshit, . . ."

Ah yes, but Farter Cluck will probably point out that, in law, there is a huge difference between McCann 'Bullshit' and McCann 'Bullshite'  

Newintown wrote:

Portia wrote:

Newintown wrote:

jeanmonroe wrote:

stillsloppingout wrote:It had been mentioned on this forum ,would under oath would they she mention the A word .
well there is your answer .
Throw in Gerrys trying to get his dogs point over, so the press would pick up on it( and create doubt about there reliability in the minds off the masses ,) because Gerry's word is always reported as gospel.
pity GO cannot take the stand major mistake that.

I REMIND everyone that THEY (G&KM) did NOT utter the 'A' words, in relation to Madeleine, under OATH, at Leveson.

I'm beginning to think that GA has played a 'blinder' by letting them 'take the stand' in Portugal and be questioned by a Judge, in a court, under oath.

He KNEW, just KNEW, their mouths would run away with BS.

Seems he was right.

GA has been 'dealing' with 'dodgy geezers' all his life, in his occupation, as a Police Officer.

KM has just about 'destroyed' their case against him, all by herself!

NO 'depression'
NO 'insommnia'
NO 'destroyed from social standing'
NO 'abduction' just a 'hypothesis'
No 'expertise' on EVRD dogs.
etc.,

I'd say, at present,

GA 7  McCanns 1 (well, they did turn up after all with their BS!)

All imo, obviously!

Did you mean Portugal not Leveson?

Anyway, GM did mention abduction outside the court though to the waiting press (I don't know if that makes any difference to the libel hearing) -

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

UPDATES ONLY LIBEL TRIAL 8TH JULY 2014

ultimaThule wrote:

snipped/

Gerry McCann: Well, you know, we can't comment on any specific details but what we are more than happy to say is we're really, really pleased that there is active investigation going on and, you know, it's taken a long time - the Met have been reviewing things for three years. Errr... We've had feedback from the Metropolitan Police - they were pleased with the way things have gone, errm... and we want that work to continue. There are a lot of lines of inquiry that need followed and, as parents, I mean, what we're... what we've asked for all along really is that anything that is reasonable to be done that may help find Madeleine and catch those responsible for her abduction is done. And, as parents, that's all we're asking and we felt there was a lot to be done and we... we want to make it clear, you know, it is a very complex investigation. It's a huge dossier, errm... and we just want as much as possible to be worked through.
Martin Brunt: Kate, what do you feel you've...
Portuguese journalist: [talking over] Do you think those steps in Algarve from British investigators... investigators can help repair all the damage the book and the documentary made, or do you see or hear that people in the Algarve start to say: "What are we doing here?"
Gerry McCann: Well, I think the worse thing is, that we were told that, errr... someone in Praia da Luz wrote: 'The parents are murderers', when this work was taking place, and if that is reflected, errr... in the general population it's devastating.
Kate McCann: I mean, that was spray painted on the wall in Luz, just a few weeks ago.
Gerry McCann: So, I mean, what we hope... we think, you know, there has been a tremendous amount of damage but we hope the public - the general population - will see the PJ are investigating, the Metropolitan Police are investigating, they will look at it and say what the criminal file said. You know, we... we don't know whether Madeleine's alive or dead but there is no evidence that she's dead and she's a missing child, and she's completely innocent. And more importantly than... well, there's... for us, there's nothing more important than that, but the next more important thing is whoever took Madeleine is still out there, and whoever that person is, or... or persons, they must have been laughing during these last six years, at what's been told in the book - that there was no abduction, that there's... you know, there's no predator out there. There is. And he may s... he, or she, or they, may strike again. And, you know, there's an unsolved serious crime and there's a series of other crimes against children which have come to light, errm... who have been on holiday. So, you know, at the very least, these people need to be brought to justice.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

GM may not have actually said the word "abduction" in court, but he is still spouting it on the steps of the court, which is on tape never to be forgotten.  I wonder how that would be perceived by the Judge, seeing it is a complete contradiction as to what KM spouted in court.

The Judge, interrogating KH, tellingly used the word 'disappearance' herself, immediately to be corrected by KH saying 'abducted' in het answer

I wasn't aware of that.  It wasn't in the transcript I read on this forum.  Is there an up to date transcript now?

ETA: I'm confused now, why would KH say "abducted" to the Judge when she said the abduction was only a hypothesis as reported in the Court proceedings in an earlier post?

Are there two different versions of the Court proceedings?

Just looking at Joana Morais court transcript and Kate apparantkly did use the A word while ansewring initial questions: confirms her name, her pccupation and states that she has not returned to work since her daughter was "abducted".

I am not British, so I may be wrong here.

Is it common that British media is so understanding and kind when it comes to child neglect, if that results in the child's death? 
I.E., could this treatment from the press have been expected had they been single parents on benefits who left their kids alone in a hotel room in Magaluf?

Does anyone know whether the McCanns would be aware of the questions the Judge was going to ask them before they were asked.
I thought that it was just going to be an impact statement spoken without questioning.

Jauna Loca wrote:

Just looking at Joana Morais court transcript and Kate apparantkly did use the A word while ansewring initial questions: confirms her name, her pccupation and states that she has not returned to work since her daughter was "abducted".

The above taken from your post of 5.22 p.m. (sorry I don't know how do the snipped thingy to delete all the other attached threads) -

I skimmed through the court transcript which has just been uploaded.  However I find it hard to correlate how KM states to the Judge in her opening sentence that her daughter was "abducted" then goes on to state that the abudction was a hypothesis.  Talk about getting your knickers in a twist!!

 

Miraflores wrote:

If only she had just been honest at the beginning.... even if she had done something terrible to Madeleine, she could well of been suffering post natal depression. The courts would have been sympathetic and she would probably have just needed psychiatric help.

I agree here. A friend's wife suffered. PND is not just 'the blues'; it's a serious condition which doesn't just go away after a few weeks and needs treatment.

Some women are evil. There is no need to invent a psychiatric diagnosis to a woman just because she has done something we can not comprehend. That is a slap in the face for those mothers who are truly suffering from PND.

So, unless Kate has been diagnosed with it, I dont think she had it.

Versailles wrote:I am not British, so I may be wrong here.

Is it common that British media is so understanding and kind when it comes to child neglect, if that results in the child's death? 
I.E., could this treatment from the press have been expected had they been single parents on benefits who left their kids alone in a hotel room in Magaluf?

No, they would have been crucified in the press, and prosecuted.

annysmithgold wrote:

Versailles wrote:I am not British, so I may be wrong here.

Is it common that British media is so understanding and kind when it comes to child neglect, if that results in the child's death? 
I.E., could this treatment from the press have been expected had they been single parents on benefits who left their kids alone in a hotel room in Magaluf?

No, they would have been crucified in the press, and prosecuted.

Thank you. Very strange. Do you think (the British ones in here) that the majority of the people in Britain have the same opinion regarding this as we do on this forum? 

I gaher, this is something that has been (or is) discussed at workplaces, family gatherings, among friends and also with strangers. Or are we in minority?

Versailles wrote:

Miraflores wrote:

If only she had just been honest at the beginning.... even if she had done something terrible to Madeleine, she could well of been suffering post natal depression. The courts would have been sympathetic and she would probably have just needed psychiatric help.

I agree here. A friend's wife suffered. PND is not just 'the blues'; it's a serious condition which doesn't just go away after a few weeks and needs treatment.

Some women are evil. There is no need to invent a psychiatric diagnosis to a woman just because she has done something we can not comprehend. That is a slap in the face for those mothers who are truly suffering from PND.

So, unless Kate has been diagnosed with it, I dont think she had it.

No-one is inventing a psychiatric diagnosis.  Loads of women go undiagnosed, and they are doctors, so can self prescribe without having to put anything on their records.  Also,  what you have to bear in mind is she is living with a narcisstic sociopath, so everything she does and says will be controlled by him, imo.  He may have been treating her for it, for all we know, as he wouldn't have wanted everyone to know his wife had a psychiatric disorder.  She certainly doesn't look 'with it', half the time and the other half, she looks terrified and haunted.