I'm hoping Pat Brown is being sarcastic here :)

ShuBob wrote:ChippyM, you and I appear to be singing from the same hymn sheet as far as PB is concerned.

Good to hear I'm not the only one.  Basically I think just like the majority of people here, Pat is offering her opinion. I am a little bit doubtful of what expertise or experience she has in criminal profiling that qualifies her beyond many of the posters here.

kimHager wrote:the writ says the mccanns suffers from " permenant anxiety, insomnia,  lack of appetite ,irritability, and an indefinable fear"
 
one thing is strange..how did GA make you feel this way it is illogical unless deep down you feel like this because GA knows the truth? 
one would think that any parent of a missing child might feel this way because their child is missing.
But kate goes on to say"wild stories were appearing in the papers about my fragile mental state,my innability to cope with my hyperactive children, eating disorders and sedatives...all complete bullshit"


so kate you pretty much said...the lawsuit is a lie..you suffered none of this.From your own words.Hmmm GA the proofs in the pudding.she says so herself.

I agree k|H.   Just from the heading of this forum the 1st and 3rd quotes from TM totally contradict one another.    

Mind, photos of them smiling and laughing after the loss of their eldest child quite destroy their arguments anyway.

I know daffodil it makes me hopeful that the judge will see it and know the only emotions those two suffer from are narcissism and greed.( spelling sorry)IMO....   

Pat Brown IMO is being facetious, her blogs about the case have been on the same lines for a while and I like it.  Just look at OG's performance to date, they've been saying much the same things since the case review started in May 2011 but what progress have they made towards a likely solution?  None as far as I can see.  I know they claim to be systematically working through the case (I assume they mean the translated Portuguese files, the private investigator's reports and whatever other information that have access to) but again to what end, wasn't that all been done before by the PJ?  A few more million down the pan while they fanny about with god knows how many slightly suspicious characters with or without a criminal record or take themselves off to the sun and dig a few holes as a token gesture?

I wouldn't or couldn't for a second suggest that OG's recent expedition was solely a tool to reinforce the McCann's attempts at ruining Goncalo Amaral but I appreciate Pat Brown's tongue in cheek implication.  Having said that, what exactly is the purpose of OG, perhaps it should be OMG!

http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/what-some-people-are-misunderstanding.html

Pat's latest - An Extremely Gloomy Piece.  

Warning:  
Do not open the link if you don't want to spoil your rest of the day. 

ETA:  Either Pat has lost it, or I am bonkers to believe there's light at the end of the tunnel. 

I have to again agree with her pessimistic outlook.  If Gerry and Kate McCann are being protected for some reason (which I believe to be true) what hope is there of a favourable outcome?  Judging by Crimewatch and press releases, OG are only pursuing dead people, convicted or suspected paedophiles and burglars but they are ignoring the most important aspects of the original Portuguese investigation.  It seems to me that OG also want the public to forget those important factors, as Pat Brown suggests, it's up to the public to make sure that doesn't happen.

I tend to believe rather strongly in Karma. Even if they "get away with it", as so many seem convinced now will happen, their own personal hell will never disappear. Those who are guilty of causing Madeleine's death, of concealing her death, of lying about her death, of conning the gullable public out of so much money and of continuing to live a lie, will have to also live with this knowledge for the rest of their lives. They may laugh and shrug and sneer and think, ha! We did it, we fooled everyone! But they are not fooling themselves, and they will forever afterwards have to live with the knowledge that when people look back at the history, at the facts which have been made known, at all of the evidence and non-evidence, at the things they've done and said, and the people they've harmed, they will be judged. And judged harshly. There's no escaping that fact. And, if they are at all as religious as they claim to be, they will have to answer to their god. Where will you end up when you're dead, Kate and Gerry? In your idea of heaven? Or condemned to an eternal hell, for all of your deeds and actions? They may be able to escape criminal prosecution now. But they will never be free of their guilt. And they will never be forgiven for what they've done to Madeleine, and Madeleine's memory.

All my own personal opinion.

canada12 wrote:I tend to believe rather strongly in Karma. Even if they "get away with it", as so many seem convinced now will happen, their own personal hell will never disappear. Those who are guilty of causing Madeleine's death, of concealing her death, of lying about her death, of conning the gullable public out of so much money and of continuing to live a lie, will have to also live with this knowledge for the rest of their lives. They may laugh and shrug and sneer and think, ha! We did it, we fooled everyone! But they are not fooling themselves, and they will forever afterwards have to live with the knowledge that when people look back at the history, at the facts which have been made known, at all of the evidence and non-evidence, at the things they've done and said, and the people they've harmed, they will be judged. And judged harshly. There's no escaping that fact. And, if they are at all as religious as they claim to be, they will have to answer to their god. Where will you end up when you're dead, Kate and Gerry? In your idea of heaven? Or condemned to an eternal hell, for all of your deeds and actions? They may be able to escape criminal prosecution now. But they will never be free of their guilt. And they will never be forgiven for what they've done to Madeleine, and Madeleine's memory.

All my own personal opinion.

Good thinking!

Alright, even granted OG quest is a blur indication, but....but...but.. what about Dr. Amaral's chance ?
Surely Pat's prediction is way off the mark if the injunction overturn and Judges' condemnation of the lower court are anything to do by.
Moreover what has the belief of conspiracy theory or british establishment involvement in the criminal case process got anything to do with a libel case between individuals ?  

aiyoyo wrote:http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/what-some-people-are-misunderstanding.html

Pat's latest - An Extremely Gloomy Piece.  

Warning:  
Do not open the link if you don't want to spoil your rest of the day. 

ETA:  Either Pat has lost it, or I am bonkers to believe there's light at the end of the tunnel. 

It's not spoiling my day because although, I genuinley think Pat Brown and many of us here want justice for a child that was let down terribly by certain people and that should unite us -  we don't all agree with whats going on with Operation Grange and  we are not a brainless homogenised lump.

  
" Should I only speak if it makes people comfortable and strokes their feelings of optimism? I don't think that is my role. I am a criminal profiler and I have always told it like it is and I am not going to stop now. I am certainly fine with opposing theories or purposes (some have to be the more positive ones), but my keeping it real shouldn't cause such malicious attacks except some people must really think I have hit the nail on the head and they don't like that this means there is not going to be a happy ending."

   Personally I don't think this is to do with making people 'comfortable', maybe some people just don't agree with Pat Brown's conclusions.

aiyoyo wrote:Alright, even granted OG quest is a blur indication, but....but...but.. what about Dr. Amaral's chance ?
Surely Pat's prediction is way off the mark if the injunction overturn and Judges' condemnation of the lower court are anything to do by.  
Moreover what has the belief of conspiracy theory or british establishment involvement in the criminal case process got anything to do with a libel case between individuals ?  

I tend to think Dr Amaral will win the court case hands down, simply because I don't believe Kate and Gerry have been able to adequately prove that his book has harmed the search for Madeleine, nor has it caused them excessive discomfort or distress. Their witnesses were complete washouts.

I'm still curious about the outcome of the WOC issue. If it turns out they're not able to sue on behalf of Madeleine, I wonder if it will negate the entire court case, or if the judge will decide that they had the right to sue on behalf of the twins and themselves, but not Madeleine. Thinking creatively, I wonder if the judge will decide to throw out the case on the basis that the WOC issue makes the entire lawsuit invalid. Is that even allowed under Portuguese law? I have no idea.

In that event, however, nobody wins. But someone has to pick up the costs, and I suspect it would be the plaintiffs, if that's what it came down to.

On the other hand, the judge may decide that the case was ok to be heard, but without the inclusion of Madeleine (if indeed, the result of the WOC issue is that the McCanns DIDN'T have the right to sue on her behalf). If that happens, I believe the judgement will be against the McCanns and for Dr. Amaral.

Even if the WOC issue turns out to have been solved and they DID have the right to sue on her behalf. I still believe the judgement will be against them.

Whatever the case, I agree that if the McCanns lose, it's likely to be appealed. But I sincerely hope if that's the case, Dr Amaral's assets are unfrozen and he's allowed to try and reassemble his life after all these years.

It will be interesting to see how the UK press spin it.

ChippyM wrote:

It's not spoiling my day because although, I genuinley think Pat Brown and many of us here want justice for a child that was let down terribly by certain people and that should unite us -  we don't all agree with whats going on with Operation Grange and  we are not a brainless homogenised lump.

I most certainly do not think I have mud for brain, never mind homogenised.
But I do think she's lost the plot being led merrily down the garden path by the UK and Portugal media.

Either she is wrong or I am wrong. She's more to lose if she is wrong.

aiyoyo wrote:

ChippyM wrote:

It's not spoiling my day because although, I genuinley think Pat Brown and many of us here want justice for a child that was let down terribly by certain people and that should unite us -  we don't all agree with whats going on with Operation Grange and  we are not a brainless homogenised lump.

I most certainly do not think I have mud for brain, never mind homogenised.
But I do think she's lost the plot being led merrily down the garden path by the UK and Portugal media.

Either she is wrong or I am wrong.  She's more to lose if she is wrong.

Well, we'll see. or maybe we won't.....from what I've gathered from the learned people on here the court case could take months. I hope it won't... but it could.   This is a long drawn out game, that's for sure.

aiyoyo wrote:

ChippyM wrote:

It's not spoiling my day because although, I genuinley think Pat Brown and many of us here want justice for a child that was let down terribly by certain people and that should unite us -  we don't all agree with whats going on with Operation Grange and  we are not a brainless homogenised lump.

I most certainly do not think I have mud for brain, never mind homogenised.
But I do think she's lost the plot being led merrily down the garden path by the UK and Portugal media.

Either she is wrong or I am wrong.  She's more to lose if she is wrong.

It hasn't spoiled my day either because I think PB is genuinely concerned about the way this case has unfolded recently ( The big dig show) and is only voicing her opinion  -  I wouldn't dream of being disrespectful towards her for simply voicing what others also think about recent events.....in the old days she would have been shot for bringing bad news  !   I just hope you have got it right aiyoyo and that she has got it wrong  - very wrong - very very wrong !!!!

canada12 wrote:This recent work is part of ensuring that all lines of enquiry are progressed in a systematic manner and covers just the one hypothesis that she was killed and buried locally.

My take on this is that there are two parts to the one hypothesis:

1. She was killed and
2. She was buried locally.

There are other hypotheses which are still being considered, including:
1. She was killed and
2. She was not buried locally.

I agree with you.  I also think that whatever SY do or say, they can be interpreted in numerous ways and our interpretation depends on how we are feeling.  I really dont think SY are trying to influence the libel case at all.
We are all on this rollercoaster ride hoping for justice and we are analysing every statement and inferring things left right and center. Its natural after all this time as we are fed up, frustrated, concerned for Amaral, justice etc etc . Also we are only privvy to the tip of the iceberg in terms of SY's investigation.  Of course they cannot be looking for a live Maddie -but I dont blame them if they dont state  ' M is dead.' They do what any of us would do as an investigative team - 'we are looking at the possibility of death in this case'.   So I agree with Canada 12 - this has been a systematic if fruitless (and I'm sur ethey knew it would be fruitless - )  part of the investigation.

missmar1 wrote:

aiyoyo wrote:

ChippyM wrote:

It's not spoiling my day because although, I genuinley think Pat Brown and many of us here want justice for a child that was let down terribly by certain people and that should unite us -  we don't all agree with whats going on with Operation Grange and  we are not a brainless homogenised lump.

I most certainly do not think I have mud for brain, never mind homogenised.
But I do think she's lost the plot being led merrily down the garden path by the UK and Portugal media.

Either she is wrong or I am wrong.  She's more to lose if she is wrong.

It hasn't spoiled my day either because I think PB is genuinely concerned about the way this case has unfolded recently ( The big dig show) and is only voicing her opinion  -  I wouldn't dream of being disrespectful towards her for simply voicing what others also think about recent events.....in the old days she would have been shot for bringing bad news  !   I just hope she has got it wrong  - very wrong - very very wrong !!!!

No, I would not want to be disrepectful but I question the placing of some opinions above others, that's all.

sofieellis wrote:when I read this article, I thought that anyone who was unfamiliar with Pat's work, could easily misinterpret the meaning. Sarcasm is pretty dangerous when you're trying to get a message out.

I agree with you sofieellis

HelenMeg wrote:

canada12 wrote:This recent work is part of ensuring that all lines of enquiry are progressed in a systematic manner and covers just the one hypothesis that she was killed and buried locally.

My take on this is that there are two parts to the one hypothesis:

1. She was killed and
2. She was buried locally.

There are other hypotheses which are still being considered, including:
1. She was killed and
2. She was not buried locally.

I agree with you.  I also think that whatever SY do or say, they can be interpreted in numerous ways and our interpretation depends on how we are feeling.  I really dont think SY are trying to influence the libel case at all.
We are all on this rollercoaster ride hoping for justice and we are analysing every statement and inferring things left right and center. Its natural after all this time as we are fed up, frustrated, concerned for Amaral, justice etc etc . Also we are only privvy to the tip of the iceberg in terms of SY's investigation.  Of course they cannot be looking for a live Maddie -but I dont blame them if they dont state  ' M is dead.' They do what any of us would do as an investigative team - 'we are looking at the possibility of death in this case'.   So I agree with Canada 12 - this has been a systematic if fruitless (and I'm sur ethey knew it would be fruitless - )  part of the investigation.

It's a pity HelenMeg  that the SY report came just in time for the Mccann's to be able to repeat at the libel trial that they believe Madeleine could still
 be alive .......but hang on a sec,  shouldn't they now sue SY for harming the search for a live Madeleine who is still findable , but, due to the digs for a dead body,, the Mccann's could claim the public will now stop looking for her ?

It does wind me up sometimes when all the general public get to hear is what the media spurt out.  I can understand Pat getting frustrated and cynical.  In the USA everything is more open and libel laws not so harsh, so it probably makes her freak out when she reads the UK press.

ChippyM wrote:

missmar1 wrote:

aiyoyo wrote:

ChippyM wrote:

It's not spoiling my day because although, I genuinley think Pat Brown and many of us here want justice for a child that was let down terribly by certain people and that should unite us -  we don't all agree with whats going on with Operation Grange and  we are not a brainless homogenised lump.

I most certainly do not think I have mud for brain, never mind homogenised.
But I do think she's lost the plot being led merrily down the garden path by the UK and Portugal media.

Either she is wrong or I am wrong.  She's more to lose if she is wrong.

It hasn't spoiled my day either because I think PB is genuinely concerned about the way this case has unfolded recently ( The big dig show) and is only voicing her opinion  -  I wouldn't dream of being disrespectful towards her for simply voicing what others also think about recent events.....in the old days she would have been shot for bringing bad news  !   I just hope she has got it wrong  - very wrong - very very wrong !!!!

No, I would not want to be disrepectful but I question the placing of some opinions above others, that's all.

I understand what you are saying ChippyM ...... hopefully she is wrong in her opinion about the outcome of this case.

canada12 wrote:I tend to believe rather strongly in Karma. Even if they "get away with it", as so many seem convinced now will happen, their own personal hell will never disappear. Those who are guilty of causing Madeleine's death, of concealing her death, of lying about her death, of conning the gullable public out of so much money and of continuing to live a lie, will have to also live with this knowledge for the rest of their lives. They may laugh and shrug and sneer and think, ha! We did it, we fooled everyone! But they are not fooling themselves, and they will forever afterwards have to live with the knowledge that when people look back at the history, at the facts which have been made known, at all of the evidence and non-evidence, at the things they've done and said, and the people they've harmed, they will be judged. And judged harshly. There's no escaping that fact. And, if they are at all as religious as they claim to be, they will have to answer to their god. Where will you end up when you're dead, Kate and Gerry? In your idea of heaven? Or condemned to an eternal hell, for all of your deeds and actions? They may be able to escape criminal prosecution now. But they will never be free of their guilt. And they will never be forgiven for what they've done to Madeleine, and Madeleine's memory.

All my own personal opinion.

I too believe in karma, canada. Their karma is a lifetime of hell and they are living it every single day and will live it for the rest of their lives. Someone should tell them, coz they're not getting it, that we all get only one spin on this merry-go-round. This life thing is not a rehearsal. It's a one-off. They may think they've fooled everyone (hundreds of thousands on social media think otherwise). Knowing you're only fooling yourself is a miserable feeling. People who feel miserable tend to push misery on others, anyone except themselves. Hence the reason KM wishes "misery" on GA.

Regardless of what happens in the court case the McCanns have managed to succeed in their main objective which was to destroy  Mr Amarals life . 

His marriage has broken down , he has lost his career , his health has been damaged , his reputation damaged probably for the rest of his life mud sticks as they say  , his assets frozen and regardless of whether he looses this case or not  they have already managed to financially ruin him . 

His crime ? to do his job and investigate the disappearance of a little girl their little girl . 

Had Amaral not looked at the possibility that the McCanns were responsible for the 'disappearance' of Madeleine then he certainly would not have been doing his job properly but the fact that he did when statistics clearly show that often in a case such as this the parents are indeed responsible and often the last person to see someone alive is responsible when a case turns into a murder investigation . You start with the parents and fan out. the majority of crimes of this nature are committed by either a close relative or friend or someone known to the person in some other capacity . If someone is innocent they are usually deemed as such pretty early on in an investigation however this was never the case in this case as from the beginning their stories did not 'add' up , they changed their statements and independent witnesses could not corroborate their version of events . Their friends stories also did not 'add' up and to any seasoned police officer would have placed the McCanns and their friends  very much at the top of the suspect list until independent witnesses could corroborate their stories and verify their alibis beyond any shadow of a doubt however this just did not happen .

Stranger danger is very rare . Yes it does and can happen but it is rare and usually in such a case there are many totally impartial witnesses who have seen something even if at the time they did not realise what they were witnessing . Close relatives and friends usually have cast iron alibis and are quickly ruled out of any involvement and thus the investigation changes course .

This case is not like that at all and screams of being orchestrated from the start . The telephoning of the media before even the police were called is a big red flag here and actually should have put the McCanns under suspicion straight away .

The fact that there are 4 defendants in this case yet  it appears only Amaral has had his assets frozen shows the vindictiveness of the McCanns  , they had one objective to destroy Amaral regardless of whether they win the case or lose they have indeed succeeded in their main objective .

I hope there is such a thing as karma because the trail of destruction left behind in the wake of Madeleines disappearance is frightening . The true scale of which will never fully be realised . 

How many innocent people have been affected by this case ? How many innocent people have been accused of being involved in some way . How many people have had to prove that their child was not Madeleine simply because they resembled the misleading photos which were released of her . 

I personally know of one child local to me . Yes she did have a look of Madeleine but that was all . The police literally swarmed on that family no quiet knock on the door they went in all guns blazing and to this day that innocent family and girl involved has been affected . 

Just  how many innocent people have had their lives affected in some way ? 

The true figure we will never know .