Re: ExclusivePix - more Met Police photos, from the team that's always on hand to snap what the Met orders them to snap

by lj 10.05.14 17:50

Mirage wrote:
Bellisa wrote:Had a look through the exclusive pix websites and it does appear that they have been hired by SY. Especially so when we see they are not being constantly 'papped' throughout their visit,just a couple of photos to show they mean business.

I feel depressed reading some of your posts tony as despite not wanting to believe you are right,it seems you are.

Bellisa, I suggest you don't read Pat Brown's blog. That is very depressing.

Indeed it is, but I think she's right.

by lj 10.05.14 17:56

Bellisa wrote:Too late Mirage:-(
Its all personal opinion at the end of the day but sometimes the truth is staring at us in the face and Im getting so fed up with trying to make excuses for what is going on.

The only thing is from looking at the ofm fb page the webmaster is getting more irate by the hour. If this is a whitewash they are getting rattled for reasons unknown.

I think they the conning couple and their disciples are seeing now the cover up —whitewash— was never to protect them. It is to protect all those, who stuck out their necks and went at times well beyond the line what is legal, all those who helped them and believed in them.

No doubt their megalomania thought it was all about them and they were untouchable. Now they start to realize they might be the next sacrifice.

by lj 10.05.14 18:00

tigger wrote:First picture I think is two photographers , why they're walking bent forward I don't know. Slice of a head as well so could be three photographers or nr 6 of the team or bit of hair loooks like a woman.

Love the confab picture, bent forward, intense looks!

I thought so too. Or maybe the guy with the head low is the one wearing short and he seems to be carrying one of those big video cameras.

by ChippyM 10.05.14 19:04

Andrew77R wrote:Has this photo been Mcphotoshopped...

Like PM said, it's a bit bizarre.

The guy with the camera next to Redwood. Where are his legs, feet. Doesn't look like there is any room to walk next to Redwood there otherwise he would be walking in the bushes.

The woman at the back. Again no legs, feet...

The guy in the middle. White shirt, pink tie. He doesn't look like he is walking... Both feet almost together... No strides like the others..

Redwood's legs look a bit awkward too..

What possible reason would there be to mess about photoshopping these photos? People seem to want to shout 'photoshop' and find things 'weird' in photos whilst giving very little consideration how a 2 dimensional image can look 'weird' with absolutely no help from anyone what so ever.

You can see what appears to be a blue jeans covered leg belonging to the pap next to Redwood down near the curb stone of the flowerbed. You can also make out Redwoods black trouser covered right leg, the knee is bending but is obscured by another SY guys suit case, you can also see the Redwoods left ankle although the rest of that leg is again obscured by the suitcase.There are also shadows cast over these areas by other group members. There are no missing legs. If it looks like there 'no room' for him to walk there that is due to perspective, if we were closer to the man in question, say in front of them, it would probably look a lot more spaced out.

The guy with 2 feet together could have just paused because there is something stuck to his shoe or he is trying to adjust something he's carrying.

A staged photo opportunity by SY - yes, photoshopped, I don't think so.

by Cristobell 10.05.14 19:15

I haven't voted, both answers were a tad biased!

We know so little about the real investigation, I think it unfair to comment negatively at this stage. Its good that SY know the public will not be fobbed off, but wrong to presume that the motives of these guys is to cover up the death of a child. They look like ordinary fellows doing a job to me, and why not make use of the local cafes, isn't that what the rest of us do? For what they are doing, the helicopter ride makes perfect sense, imo, they are trying to bring this matter to a close.

I don't discard the possibility of a whitewash altogether, but at this stage I think the net is tightening in on the real villains.

by ChippyM 10.05.14 19:36

I agree with you Cristobell. The helicopter was most likely to be narrowing down search areas before taking action on the ground. If anyone has ever watched Time team, they will know that investigators don't just dig vast swathes of land, they use surveying methods to target mush smaller areas that then take days to investigate. Was the purpose to take a closer look at areas they have been tipped off on?
Andy Redwood seems to have an extremely serious look on his face and I don't believe all the PJ and Sy at war rubbish in the papers, it's spin IMO. All along SY have said the burglars and others were not the only lines of enquiry.

As another poster said , I refuse to believe in a white wash until the fat lady has finished singing!

by **tigger** 10.05.14 19:37

[quote="Cristobell"]I haven't voted, both answers were a tad biased!

[....]
I don't discard the possibility of a whitewash altogether, but at this stage I think the net is tightening in on the real villains.[b]

[b]Unquote

Isn't that a contradiction in terms? Either it's a possible whitewash or the net is tighening but both at the same time seem to be cancelling each other out.

by ShuBob 10.05.14 19:43

ChippyM wrote:I agree with you Cristobell. The helicopter was most likely to be narrowing down search areas before taking action on the ground. If anyone has ever watched Time team, they will know that investigators don't just dig vast swathes of land, they use surveying methods to target mush smaller areas that then take days to investigate. Was the purpose to take a closer look at areas they have been tipped off on?
Andy Redwood seems to have an extremely serious look on his face and I don't believe all the PJ and Sy at war rubbish in the papers, it's spin IMO. All along SY have said the burglars and others were not the only lines of enquiry.

As another poster said , I refuse to believe in a white wash until the fat lady has finished singing!

Amen

by **Tony Bennett** 10.05.14 19:53

Cristobell wrote:I haven't voted, both answers were a tad biased!

We know so little about the real investigation,

Quite to the contrary, we know a great deal about it, far more than we get to find out in most investigations.

We know about numbers of:

* lines of enquiry
* actions
* mobile phone records to search
* countries to which ILORs have been sent
* sex offenders being traced
* persons of interest being eliminated
* interviews carried out
* statements taken
* suspects
* visits to the Algarve by DCI Redwood
and so on

We also know:

* How much it's costing
* How many detectives are on the case
* That Jane Tanner was right - she saw crecheman
and so on

And we know either directly from them, or indirectly from others (i.e. leaks) what their main lines of enquiry are or have been:

* Smelly bin-man
* Tractorman
* A man claimed to have been seen by an Irish family
* Two different e-fits of what is supposed to be the same man
* 4 blond men
* A 'soothing couple'
* A bloke with keys
* 3 burglars
and so on
* 6 men in a white van
and so on.

I think it unfair to comment negatively at this stage.

It's only 'fair' to comment positively? We must look at the evidence for whether this is a sincere investigation or not. And whether or not it is actually getting anywhere. I fail to see how 8 detectives flying out for less than 48 hours, and either going for a helicopter ride or getting the Portuguese Air Force to take pictures is leading us anywhere except, once more, the continued influencing of public pereception. Really, what is that helicopter ride going to find out? If say ground was disturbed 7 years ago, what signs will there be after all this time? Plus we have mountains of evidence now that there is virtually nil co-operation between the two police forces. Isn't the belief that all is going swimmingly - and that they are marching on towards arrests, chargings and convictions - simply based on hope and not any actual evidence?

It's good that SY know the public will not be fobbed off,

They have been for 7 years

but wrong to presume that the motives of these guys is to cover up the death of a child.

Wrong - unless of course there is evidence for that presumption

They look like ordinary fellows doing a job to me,

Not to me at all

and why not make use of the local cafes, isn't that what the rest of us do?

I've no problem with that. Except that it looks like a photo shoot. How many groups of detectives on a serious enquiry go into cafes and restaurants for a chat? There was no-one else in the cafe, I think, apart from two members of staff doing very little.
For what they are doing, the helicopter ride makes perfect sense, imo, they are trying to bring this matter to a close.

I don't discard the possibility of a whitewash altogether, but at this stage I think the net is tightening in on the real villains.

I really wonder what actual evidence you have for that line of thinking?

by ChippyM 10.05.14 20:03

Something I noticed from this article.

"After meeting with the Judicial Police, three investigators from Scotland Yard did yesterday afternoon an air radiography to the places where they want to do searches to find the body of Madeleine McCann in Praia da Luz, Lagos. In air mission, accompanied by PJ, we used an Air Force helicopter whose service to the CM found, will be paid by the British authorities, as well as other steps that will be performed in Portuguese territory. Aerial operation occurred when the population of Praia da Luz hoped searches on land. Inside the helicopter, one Alouette III Air Force typically used for instruction and search and rescue, were three members of Scotland Yard and the PJ. Two of them made several photographs of places of potential interest for future searches. 's goal was to understand if there are gaps in areas of land which are compatible with a place where it was buried a body. This radiograph is considered essential by the British to advance the search field next to the Ocean Club, where they plan to use dogs and georadar. Listed for measures applied by the English, know the CM, are still questioning eight people, of various nationalities, to reside in the Algarve, following the line of research based on a sexual predator that went into several houses. Though this sudden breakthrough in the investigations, it is not certain that new developments happening in the coming days.

Ler mais em: http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/detalhe/noticias/nacional/portugal/buscas-aereas-por-maddie-081006310 "

Looking at the pictures of SY arriving in January, we see 4 men including Redwood all looking very police like and professional in their suits and ties. These latest photos show 2 extra to the team, a man in casual shorts carrying equipment and another, shaven headed, suited and sunglasses wearing man.

It seems probable that the casually dressed man is some kind of expert in doing air surveys and was one of those three in the helicopter, the second was probably the shaven headed man who was not in Portugal in January, I would be interested to know what his particular expertise is within SY. To me this suggests they really were looking for something.

The 'questioning 8 suspects' is also interesting as it is quite specific but could be a translation cock-up.

by **Tony Bennett** 10.05.14 20:05

ChippyM wrote:I agree with you Cristobell. The helicopter was most likely to be narrowing down search areas before taking action on the ground. If anyone has ever watched Time team, they will know that investigators don't just dig vast swathes of land, they use surveying methods to target mush smaller areas that then take days to investigate. Was the purpose to take a closer look at areas they have been tipped off on?

Can you explain why the helicopter 'search', such as it was, had to be done in a blaze of publicity and a plethora of photographs, with 8 detectives in suits and with briefcases also being photographed withersoever they go? Instead of what usually happens - the preparatory work done in secret, and any news only being released when an actual dig starts? (Not that I am convinced there will ever be a dig)

Andy Redwood seems to have an extremely serious look on his face

Ian Huntley had the same serious, earnest look with a furrowed forehead in the weeks before he was arrested

and I don't believe all the PJ and Sy at war rubbish in the papers, it's spin IMO. All along SY have said the burglars and others were not the only lines of enquiry.

Honestly, ChippyM, two police forces who are working well together do not row in public frequently, as has happened for months now. The PJ issuing warnings of complete non-co-operation. Scotland Yard, every time they speak, criticising the Portuguese police for not agreeing a joint investigation, doing things their own silly way, going much too slowly, and then, to cap it all, saying: "We think your lines of enquiry are complete rubbish". SY have produced statement after statement claiming that the two forces are co-operating 'ever more closely', etc. etc. They are lying - and trying to paper over cracks between the two forces that are plainly as wide as the Grand Canyon

As another poster said , I refuse to believe in a white wash until the fat lady has finished singing!

by Guest 10.05.14 20:10

It's clear to me that Tony is right. I hope to god that Pat Brown isn't.

Too depressing.

by **Tony Bennett** 10.05.14 20:16

ChippyM wrote:Something I noticed from this article:.

[Scotland Yard's] goal was to understand if there are gaps in areas of land which are compatible with a place where a body was buried.

REPLY: This is well beyond the ridiculous. There is an area of land of no more than an acre or two where they want to look for 'gaps in areas of land'. Even allowing for a translation error here, what was the need for an all-expenses trip by 8 detectives and a helicopter flight?

Two years or more ago, Redwood - if he seriously thought that a search of that area was necessary, which I very much doubt - could have simply asked for permission to search that area and quietly organised a radar search, dig, or whatever else he wanted to do.

But, hey, no.

Let's leak a story to the McCanns and the Sunday Mirror days before we go, giving time for all the other papers to cover this on their front pages for days. Then let's 8 of us go, for basically two nights, and flaunt ourselves flying in a miltary helicopter. And then go back.

All, all just for show

by ChippyM 10.05.14 20:22

Tony Bennett wrote:
ChippyM wrote:Something I noticed from this article:.

[Scotland Yard's] goal was to understand if there are gaps in areas of land which are compatible with a place where a body was buried.

REPLY: This is well beyond the ridiculous. There is an area of land of no more than an acre or two where they want to look for 'gaps in areas of land'. Even allowing for a translation error here, what was the need for an all-expenses trip by 8 detectives and a helicopter flight?

Two years or more ago, Redwood - if he seriously thought that a search of that area was necessary, which I very much doubt - could have simply asked for permission to search that area and quietly organised a radar search, dig, or whatever else he wanted to do.

But, hey, no.

Let's leak a story to the McCanns and the Sunday Mirror days before we go, giving time for all the other papers to cover this on their front pages for days. Then let's 8 of us go, for basically two nights, and flaunt ourselves flying in a miltary helicopter. And then go back.

All, all just for show

I don't think we know what areas of land they want to search. Most of the stuff coming from the UK news is variations of the original Mirror story. If they did want to search land, they have to narrow it down.

I agree that there were staged photo ops but that could be because the Met have been under critiscism for spending and not getting any where, they may want to show that they are actually doing something physical.

I don't think any of us can say with certainty that it's ALL for show as we don't know what's been going on behind the scenes, we can guess but that's all it is.

by Atomic Peanut 10.05.14 20:22

ChippyM wrote:As another poster said , I refuse to believe in a white wash until the fat lady has finished singing!

Perhaps those of you who believe a whitewash is in progress would explain exactly how that whitewash will conclude?

by ChippyM 10.05.14 20:34

Atomic Peanut wrote:
ChippyM wrote:As another poster said , I refuse to believe in a white wash until the fat lady has finished singing!
Perhaps those of you who believe a whitewash is in progress would explain exactly how that whitewash will conclude?

I don't want to believe in a Whitewash but I can think off some possibilities.

1) SY /PJ dig and find nothing, more money wasted, public outraged at waste of money, cased shelved, MM presumed dead, no-one specifically responsible.

2) SY/PJ dig and find something but forensics are inconclusive, no-one can be charged with her death. again public outrages at the charade and want case closed.

3) SY/PJ find something, pin it on a patsy.

by Atomic Peanut 10.05.14 20:48

ChippyM wrote:
Atomic Peanut wrote:
ChippyM wrote:As another poster said , I refuse to believe in a white wash until the fat lady has finished singing!
Perhaps those of you who believe a whitewash is in progress would explain exactly how that whitewash will conclude?
I don't want to believe in a Whitewash but I can think off some possibilities.

I'm sure others will agree with you Chippy M but I don't believe any of those are realistic.

1 and 2 just take us back to where we were in August 2008. The case was shelved, it was effectively over to everyone except those of us on the forums. There was no point resurrecting it just to whitewash it.

In the case of 3, there's no point LE fitting up a patsy because there will be no evidence against them. There was no sign of an intruder in 5A, so there will be no DNA or fingerprints to match the accused. And M didn't WAW, we are told, so an abductor couldn't have whisked her away from outside.

So the theory that some petty criminal/disgruntled ex OC worker/perpetrator of other bad deeds elsewhere on the Algarve/etc can be offered up as a sacrifice just doesn't stand up.

That convinces me that there is no whitewash. But quite what is going on is as mystifying to me as it is to most of you.

by Guest 10.05.14 20:51

Atomic Peanut wrote:
ChippyM wrote:As another poster said , I refuse to believe in a white wash until the fat lady has finished singing!
Perhaps those of you who believe a whitewash is in progress would explain exactly how that whitewash will conclude?

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/met-chief-calls-for-decision-on-funding-of-madeleine-mccann-review-8078769.html

Hogan-Howe wrote:There will be a point at which we and the Government will want to make a decision about what the likely outcome is.

Depends on what they've decided. Certainly any establishment cover-up/involvement will be protected imo. If to acheive that means continued protection of the McCanns then they will remain in the clear. I have recently been wondering if the Portuguese investigation will dictate that the British may have to concede a partial sacrifice of the McCanns, but if Pat Brown is right, even that glimmer is extinguished.

Just my suppositions.

by ShuBob 10.05.14 21:03

ChippyM wrote:
Atomic Peanut wrote:
ChippyM wrote:As another poster said , I refuse to believe in a white wash until the fat lady has finished singing!
Perhaps those of you who believe a whitewash is in progress would explain exactly how that whitewash will conclude?

I don't want to believe in a Whitewash but I can think off some possibilities.

1) SY /PJ dig and find nothing, more money wasted, public outraged at waste of money, cased shelved, MM presumed dead, no-one specifically responsible.

2) SY/PJ dig and find something but forensics are inconclusive, no-one can be charged with her death. again public outrages at the charade and want case closed.

3) SY/PJ find something, pin it on a patsy.

The McCanns better hope for Option 3 if there is to be a whitewash. Otherwise, they've had it as far as their case against Amaral is concerned.

Having said that, I don't see any of the options really helping them against Amaral. Surely, he would not settle for a whitewash having battled the couple all these years even when he had nothing!

by ChippyM 10.05.14 21:04

Atomic Peanut wrote:
ChippyM wrote:
Atomic Peanut wrote:
ChippyM wrote:As another poster said , I refuse to believe in a white wash until the fat lady has finished singing!
Perhaps those of you who believe a whitewash is in progress would explain exactly how that whitewash will conclude?
I don't want to believe in a Whitewash but I can think off some possibilities.
I'm sure others will agree with you Chippy M but I don't believe any of those are realistic.

Very good points, why would they close the case when they could have done that with out the recent developments. I am at the moment optimistic that this isn't a whitewash

by SixMillionQuid 10.05.14 21:06

They already decided the McCanns and the T7 have no involvement in Madeleine's disappearance, so does it matter what they conclude now?

They have to come to a conclusion soon and if they it's highly likely it was a burglary / pedo then can anyone argue its not a whitewash?

by ShuBob 10.05.14 21:10

I think people who believe in a whitewash are not taking into account the implications of such a conclusion for Amaral. Do they really think he'll just have to accept the conclusion and effectively be destitute having suffered all these years? nah

by ChippyM 10.05.14 21:11

SixMillionQuid wrote:They already decided the McCanns and the T7 have no involvement in Madeleine's disappearance, so does it matter what they conclude now?

They have to come to a conclusion soon and if they it's highly likely it was a burglary / pedo then can anyone argue its not a whitewash?

When exactly did they state the parents have no involvement?

What I've seen is some extremely carefully worded statements that haven't precluded all possibilities. It's been quite confusing though together with all the spin, so I go from optimistic back to not knowing what to think.

by Atomic Peanut 10.05.14 21:15

There have been many cases in history where the police have said one thing while actually believing something else. Until there is a publicised conclusion anything is possible.

Given that it isn't known for sure when M disappeared, nobody has an alibi. To have an alibi, the exact time of the incident has to be known.

That effectively applies to everybody in the world. Nobody has an alibi.

Therefore it isn't possible to rule anyone out - and I mean anyone.

by Guest 10.05.14 21:18

ShuBob wrote:I think people who believe in a whitewash are not taking into account the implications of such a conclusion for Amaral. Do they really think he'll just have to accept the conclusion and effectively be destitute having suffered all these years?

Since when has Dr Amaral's position been any consideration of the British? It was our governmental intervention that did for him in the first place. His hope for justice lies with his own people, imo. I hope they don't let him and Madeleine down.

by SixMillionQuid 10.05.14 21:21

ShuBob wrote:I think people who believe in a whitewash are not taking into account the implications of such a conclusion for Amaral. Do they really think he'll just have to accept the conclusion and effectively be destitute having suffered all these years?

My view is that the SY review is a PR exercise first mascarading as an official investigation. When they publicly announced the T9 as irrelevant it was clear to me where the investigation was going, all in time for the libel trial which is now suspended.

This PR exercise is and has always been to stop Amaral in his tracks. Once he's done then they'll come after us with a a copy of Operation Grange's report. Just the whiff of legal action is enough to send newspapers and internet forums into a nosedive. Job done. Look what happened to the Mirror forums, 3As. On Digital Spy you can the most outrageous things but say the words Madeleine McCann and the thread gets locked instantly.

by MF77 10.05.14 21:23

Hey folks, I'm quite a long way behiind current events, but I just wanted to ask where I might pose a few questions or thoughts about Madeleine's dead body, if we are to assume she is dead. Sorry for my ignorance.

duh

by ShuBob 10.05.14 21:23

Dee Coy wrote:
ShuBob wrote:I think people who believe in a whitewash are not taking into account the implications of such a conclusion for Amaral. Do they really think he'll just have to accept the conclusion and effectively be destitute having suffered all these years?

Since when has Dr Amaral's position been any consideration of the British? It was our governmental intervention that did for him in the first place. His hope for justice lies with his own people, imo. I hope they don't let him and Madeleine down.

Well, they will have to consider his position when he starts making noises. I believe he has deliberately withheld certain information because he still has hope that the case will be solved. If there is a whitewash, they'll probably have to kill him to prevent him speaking out!

PS: I believe the British are watching the civil case in Portugal very closely.

by Guest 10.05.14 21:24

I would like to think that if this was a whitewash, then it would of been whitewashed properly back in 2008 when the case was shelved. The Mccann's would of been TOLD to shut up. Case slowly forgotten and it would of just gone down as an 'unsolved mystery'. Much like Ben Needham, although i hate to compare.

If the case files were not made public then i firmly believe that would of happened.

Once the files were made public and GA's refusal to back down and play ball, then they have been firefighting ever since. They were on a train that just couldn't stop. Needing (begging for) vast amounts of money to pay for the best PR's, lawyers etc etc to try and get them out of the mess they were/are in.

They will be the masters in there own downfall. The train is about to crash and burn.

Not long now and i'm hopeful that true justice will finally be served.

by ShuBob 10.05.14 21:28

SixMillionQuid wrote:
ShuBob wrote:I think people who believe in a whitewash are not taking into account the implications of such a conclusion for Amaral. Do they really think he'll just have to accept the conclusion and effectively be destitute having suffered all these years?

My view is that the SY review is a PR exercise first mascarading as an official investigation. When they publicly announced the T9 as irrelevant it was clear to me where the investigation was going, all in time for the libel trial which is now suspended.

This PR exercise is and has always been to stop Amaral in his tracks. Once he's done then they'll come after us with a a copy of Operation Grange's report. Just the whiff of legal action is enough to send newspapers and internet forums into a nosedive. Job done. Look what happened to the Mirror forums, 3As. On Digital Spy you can the most outrageous things but say the words Madeleine McCann and the thread gets locked instantly.

But just look at the current climate: several police officers being investigated or serving prison sentences for past crimes, a notorious PR expert in prison, a serving cabinet minister prosecuted and sent to jail, a High Court judge sent to jail, newspaper editors charged with multiple offenses, the list goes on. What makes THIS case special in this current climate?

ExclusivePix - more Met Police photos, from the team that's always on hand to snap what the Met orders them to snap

Those ExclusivePix photos of Operation Grange at work in Portugal...