Normal Justice Wanted: a TRIAL for Child Madeleine McCann's Parents.

by Karen Pinto 16.10.13 8:31

Please sign this petition for McCanns to be put on TRIAL..............Thank you
https://www.change.org/petitions/portugal-gabinete-de-sua-excel%C3%AAncia-a-ministra-da-justi%C3%A7a-normal-justice-wanted-a-trial-for-child-madeleine-mccann-s-parents

by StarsOnYou 23.11.13 22:39

It is very good of you Karen Pinto to have shared this petition. I'm not sure if I'll manage to include a photo that I had seen elsewhere of another sharing, and there is a video to it also:

I suggest that, if you have signed the petition, http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/portugal-gabinete-de-sua-excel%C3%AAncia-a-ministra-da-justi%C3%A7a-normal-justice-wanted-a-trial-for-child-madeleine-mccann-s-parents , that you may copy its link and paste it on social sites like Facebook or Tweeter, so that it boosts the number of signatures. I regularly do (but it kinds of echo in a desert...). I don't know how long there is left to gather, hopefully for the Truth about Madeleine, many more signatures, or if this will influence/ encourage the Portuguese legal system to take an action, but .... in Hope I Trust, LOL. yes

by Guest 23.11.13 22:43

I don't want to seem old and dusty, but ... would it not be better to let 2 joined renowned police forces continue their investigation and bring the case to court IF and WHEN they have all the evidence to do so ?

by TMH 23.11.13 23:02

I don't think the McCanns will be put on trial just because some members of the public want it to happen. Hopefully they'll get prosecuted when SY and PJ have done their investigations and find out all the inconsistancies with this case, but until then, I don't think the petition will do any good - sorry

by StarsOnYou 23.11.13 23:13

Châtelaine wrote:I don't want to seem old and dusty, but ... would it not be better to let 2 joined renowned police forces continue their investigation and bring the case to court IF and WHEN they have all the evidence to do so ?

Hi Chatelaine, I remember your name from past forums. It's always heat (or heart, maybe)-warming to bump into some trusted names I had grown familiar with dance

, lol at the smileys on the side there, they make me laugh.

Yes in this respect, and if and only if, big if, these bodies can be trusted.... then I'd be more than happy (and would have no other 'choice' but awaiting what comes out of the recent finds and revelations, like the MCanns hid for 5 years impoortant elements in the file-work that their previous P.I's had come to) (and if I'm correct, we heard of even some 'threatening' so that the Oakley team would keep quiet... Mmmh....) to "let them continue" as you say! Replying on a post and helping sharing a petition does not, in anyway, prevent anyone from doing their own jobs... But will they finally do it right? One Saint Day?

This is a Research + Database + Opinion forum, my sharing and replying falling in the latter part (and also, greatly, in the first) and in my view, if we'd all agree with the "power that be", well, there wouldn't be any point of having forums and freedom of speech (or what's left of it...) ...

Personally, Chatelaine, I have little trust in NSY now... I sincerely hope that Mr Redwood at NSY or the met-police will help me change my mind before this Christmas...

Thank you for your reply, Xx

by StarsOnYou 23.11.13 23:32

TMH wrote:I don't think the McCanns will be put on trial just because some members of the public want it to happen. Hopefully they'll get prosecuted when SY and PJ have done their investigations and find out all the inconsistancies with this case, but until then, I don't think the petition will do any good - sorry

Hi TMH. Well petitions are, sadly at times, not regarded as how they should be -- like I signed many others against Child abuse... and Animal abuse... and other cases... but for most, we never seem to see the day when all this cruelty and "Granchester Grind" will stop -- but at least these incentives help to raise awareness to this... "schmilblick" of a case... (Mr Bean comes to mind...) The texts are explicative. Actually there are two petitions, the smaller one being on i-petition, I think...

Many people have signed both of them and have shared them, regardless of pessimism. It can always help in some way, I perfectly agree with you of not getting our hopes up about this, but at least it's an idea and frankly, if you are revolted against the lies (and I won't come back on my words as I can prove it), contradictions in statements and bizarre attitudes and facts, well you perhaps shouldn't shoot someone in the foot for just replying to a post on a forum, my opinion, you see, is equal to any other... I hope you agree...

A screen-capture of another sharing I saw on facebook I think... : (I don't think I understand how to upload a pic on this forum so I'll paste, later, some parts of text from these petitions. In Hope I Trust ;)for a Child I've hoped to see alive since May 2007. roses

but this is my stance only... Don't shoot, lol splat

by Guest 23.11.13 23:32

Believe me or not, StarsOnYou, but I DO have faith in SY and PJ. As I've said many time here and elsewhere before, most detectives are detective BECAUSE they want justice be done. The bigger part of them - there are always rotten apples in the basket, of course - are all for getting a case solved, sometimes even after their retirement - they won't give up. A criminal case is never closed for them and we have many examples of them and those. I can imagine, that sometimes they come under pressure from the powers that be, as history has told us for ages. However, I do not see here, in this case and at this moment in time an attempt to bury the sorry truth, whichever it is. As Amaral said: Justice works in silence. I think we should believe him. And if Andy Redwood is doing, what I think he's doing, his team is doing, I'll send him a big bouquet of red roses ... roses

And in that case too, he should have some kind of an award for ham acting "stupid cop" and saying things without saying them yes

by StarsOnYou 23.11.13 23:46

Châtelaine wrote:Believe me or not, StarsOnYou, but I DO have faith in SY and PJ. As I've said many time here and elsewhere before, most detectives are detective BECAUSE they want justice be done. The bigger part of them - there are always rotten apples in the basket, of course - are all for getting a case solved, sometimes even after their retirement - they won't give up. A criminal case is never closed for them and we have many examples of them and those. I can imagine, that sometimes they come under pressure from the powers that be, as history has told us for ages. However, I do not see here, in this case and at this moment in time an attempt to bury the sorry truth, whichever it is. As Amaral said: Justice works in silence. I think we should believe him. And if Andy Redwood is doing, what I think he's doing, his team is doing, I'll send him a big bouquet of red roses ... And in that case too, he should have some kind of an award for ham acting "stupid cop" and saying things without saying them

Yes I'd love to trust them a 100% too but having followed these developments since the "Review" started here on British grounds, and at the demand of the McCanns, I noticed a change of "atmosphere" in what we can perceive of Mr Redwood's office. At first the Met (NSY) began by proclaiming to the media that they strongly investigated the PARENTS of Madeleine as they were, from what I could understand, a lead... and all in all that meant that again they were under suspicion, unofficially.

But a few moths later, what did Mr Andy Redwood come out with on each of our TV or PC or tablets/ phones screens? "NSY NOW believes in ABDUCTION!" or in such words, same meaning exactly.

Now recently the "grieving parents", always, still, in the lime light, were kindly invited "in the arms" of Mr Redwood as gusts of the BBC "Crimewatch". If only it hadn't been from the Oakley Team to react, soon after, about THAT e-fit they had created from the Martin Smith & Family witnessing, we'd still be manipulated to think that Maddie's parents are in NO WAY INVOLVED. And it wouldn't particularly be un-helped by Mr Redwood...

What did we see next? The TRACTOR MAN. Oh PLEASE........

Friedrich Nietzsche · by Daisy 23.11.13 23:47

I've signed enough petitions in my life to know they do sod all good unless it suits some government agenda. I can't apologise for being this cynical it's my experience of life so far.

I also agree it's only right to wait upon the outcome of ongoing investigations before taking these kind of actions. In fact all this new attention (at the wrong time) could end up doing more harm than good.

by StarsOnYou 23.11.13 23:47

Months, sorry, or "moths"... it's the Mothman. He did it.

by StarsOnYou 23.11.13 23:51

Daisy wrote:I've signed enough petitions in my life to know they do sod all good unless it suits some government agenda. I can't apologise for being this cynical it's my experience of life so far.

I also agree it's only right to wait upon the outcome of ongoing investigations before taking these kind of actions. In fact all this new attention (at the wrong time) could end up doing more harm than good.

Well I keep signing petitions because sometimes , like we see outcomes from the 38 Degrees Site mail-notifications, yes petitions DO work. If they don't work "instantly" (like it was the case for the couple of petitions asking to RE- Open the McCann case), it can work invisibly... It's always a Plus against a mere "minus" anyway. Why not.

by StarsOnYou 23.11.13 23:55

Okay Folks... I have to go now, it's late and so far I've seen so MUCH "ANTE- POSTS" and harsh criticism against Karen Pinto's original post, that I'm getting bored. Not disheartened, never, for I agree with Lizzy Taylor Hideho : "NEVER GIVE UP."

But just to say that I won't be here (perhaps until next week) to answer any reply to my own reply to this thread. I thank you all for your comments back, and wish the Truth to be found for Child Madeleine. This is one ultimate wish I share with Hideho and many Others, petitions or not, blogs or not, forums or not, opinions or not... Take Care.

by Guest 24.11.13 0:03

StarsOnYou wrote: [...] Yes I'd love to trust them a 100% too but having followed these developments since the "Review" started here on British grounds, and at the demand of the McCanns [...].

***
Do go and read back other recent threads here: the review was NOT at the McCann's demand, but already in the works after the PJ started a review in MARCH 2011 and then asked for the co-operation of SY, which Theresa May accepted on the very same day, that the SUN published the McCs letter to PM Cameron. They knew that it was going to happen and the Sun published the letter to be able to call "victory" ... Shallow and deceptive. But that's how it's been since a long time ...

by StarsOnYou 24.11.13 0:09

Châtelaine wrote:
StarsOnYou wrote: [...] Yes I'd love to trust them a 100% too but having followed these developments since the "Review" started here on British grounds, and at the demand of the McCanns [...].
***
Do go and read back other recent threads here: the review was NOT at the McCann's demand, but already in the works after the PJ started a review in MARCH 2011 and then asked for the co-operation of SY, which Theresa May accepted on the very same day, that the SUN published the McCs letter to PM Cameron. They knew that it was going to happen and the Sun published the letter to be able to call "victory" ... Shallow and deceptive. But that's how it's been since a long time ...

Well last comment before I go for good, please back-up your statement for are you totally ignoring, actually, the MIGHTY ***PETITION** (proof that some work!!) FROM the McCanns for a REVIEW? And all the media FUSS around it at that time? Google it........ This is FACT. Never heard of what you claim as "truth"!

Just saying... If you're going to state this or that, back it up... Good night.

by Guest 24.11.13 0:22

StarsOnYou wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:
StarsOnYou wrote: [...] Yes I'd love to trust them a 100% too but having followed these developments since the "Review" started here on British grounds, and at the demand of the McCanns [...].
***
Do go and read back other recent threads here: the review was NOT at the McCann's demand, but already in the works after the PJ started a review in MARCH 2011 and then asked for the co-operation of SY, which Theresa May accepted on the very same day, that the SUN published the McCs letter to PM Cameron. They knew that it was going to happen and the Sun published the letter to be able to call "victory" ... Shallow and deceptive. But that's how it's been since a long time ...
Well last comment before I go for good, please back-up your statement for are you totally ignoring, actually, the MIGHTY ***PETITION** (proof that some work!!) FROM the McCanns for a REVIEW? And all the media FUSS around it at that time? Google it........ This is FACT. Never heard of what you claim as "truth"!

Just saying... If you're going to state this or that, back it up... Good night.

***
Good night 2u2
I'll guide you to Theresa May's letter [published after an FOI request] tomorrow after breakfast [which may be brunch in view of the present hour smilie

].

by Joss 24.11.13 2:27

If Portugal has a DOJ, Dept. of Justice, i have signed such petitions before in the U.S. and they are taken seriously i believe. The DOJ can do their own separate Investigations and bring a case to Trial if there is enough evidence for a case. But i'm not sure if a country like Portugal has the same type of system?

by ekatae 24.11.13 3:28

Is it just me or do some posters find I've been here many times slightly (or more than slightly) patronising.. to every post or theory that is so very valid? spin

Some poster's seem to detest great theories or ideas from others...esp: so called 'newbies' ........ I may be wrong.... tongue

by ekatae 24.11.13 3:31

. As I've said many time here and elsewhere before,

by ekatae 24.11.13 3:34

Sorry to those who : seem old and dusty please can we see:clapping: fresh ideas....and thought...

by ekatae 24.11.13 3:51

My Bold is actual quotes from our friends in France who have studied for 6 years plus....! But I am more in awe of what is being said by other people who have posted here and elsewhere on this forum.... high5

by Romario 24.11.13 9:00

I have mixed views on this. As a newbie myself it can feel as if you're being looked down on by some people on high. But, the people here have not only been on the ball with this case for a long time, they've also done some amazing research into it. So probably they're entitled to feel a little irritated by newbies, especially when they're not up to speed and say things which either aren't true or have been discussed to death already.

Indeed I've noticed that some newbies have made statements which are just not true or based theories on evidence which has long been dismissed, and I found this annoying; but I also know that I have done similar things myself. When I joined this site I thought I had pretty much read everything in the threads; but time after time I keep coming across new articles/threads that I didn't know existed: e.g. Tony Bennett's article on Michael Wright or his ideas regarding the Smith sighting being made up.

by sami 24.11.13 9:17

StarsOnYou wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:
StarsOnYou wrote: [...] Yes I'd love to trust them a 100% too but having followed these developments since the "Review" started here on British grounds, and at the demand of the McCanns [...].
***
Do go and read back other recent threads here: the review was NOT at the McCann's demand, but already in the works after the PJ started a review in MARCH 2011 and then asked for the co-operation of SY, which Theresa May accepted on the very same day, that the SUN published the McCs letter to PM Cameron. They knew that it was going to happen and the Sun published the letter to be able to call "victory" ... Shallow and deceptive. But that's how it's been since a long time ...
Well last comment before I go for good, please back-up your statement for are you totally ignoring, actually, the MIGHTY ***PETITION** (proof that some work!!) FROM the McCanns for a REVIEW? And all the media FUSS around it at that time? Google it........ This is FACT. Never heard of what you claim as "truth"!

Just saying... If you're going to state this or that, back it up... Good night.

Why channel all of their energy into a petition for a review some years later ?

Is there any particular reason they did not petition the Portugese in the same way, request the re-opening of the case, indeed appeal the archiving decision, as was, I believe, their right ?

The McCanns have well documented their feelings on the capabilities or otherwise of the Portugese police. Still though, better them working, investigating, in the background, than nobody at all, surely ?

Perhaps not, no requirement for the fighting fund with that scenario. No claim that no police force anywhere in the world was looking for their little girl.

A "Review" on the other hand was a handy compromise. The fund could still operate.

That's the problem with these live investigations by police, it's difficult to operate on line stores and seek donations from the public, on the pretence of hiring private investigators.

by Guest 24.11.13 9:34

StarsOnYou wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:
StarsOnYou wrote: [...] Yes I'd love to trust them a 100% too but having followed these developments since the "Review" started here on British grounds, and at the demand of the McCanns [...].
***
Do go and read back other recent threads here: the review was NOT at the McCann's demand, but already in the works after the PJ started a review in MARCH 2011 and then asked for the co-operation of SY, which Theresa May accepted on the very same day, that the SUN published the McCs letter to PM Cameron. They knew that it was going to happen and the Sun published the letter to be able to call "victory" ... Shallow and deceptive. But that's how it's been since a long time ...
Well last comment before I go for good, please back-up your statement for are you totally ignoring, actually, the MIGHTY ***PETITION** (proof that some work!!) FROM the McCanns for a REVIEW? And all the media FUSS around it at that time? Google it........ This is FACT. Never heard of what you claim as "truth"!

Just saying... If you're going to state this or that, back it up... Good night.

StarsOnYou..
This is the letter from Teresa May:
http://www.met.police.uk/foi/pdfs/disclosure_2012/may_2012/2011120000806.pdf
Dated the same day as the Sun article.

ekatae..
it seems to me from your posts that you are the one who keeps stating you are a "newbie", and I don't see that anyone has been rude or patronising to you. In fact they have been more that helpful to you.

by StarsOnYou 24.11.13 19:09

dantezebu wrote:
StarsOnYou wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:
StarsOnYou wrote: [...] Yes I'd love to trust them a 100% too but having followed these developments since the "Review" started here on British grounds, and at the demand of the McCanns [...].
***
Do go and read back other recent threads here: the review was NOT at the McCann's demand, but already in the works after the PJ started a review in MARCH 2011 and then asked for the co-operation of SY, which Theresa May accepted on the very same day, that the SUN published the McCs letter to PM Cameron. They knew that it was going to happen and the Sun published the letter to be able to call "victory" ... Shallow and deceptive. But that's how it's been since a long time ...
Well last comment before I go for good, please back-up your statement for are you totally ignoring, actually, the MIGHTY ***PETITION** (proof that some work!!) FROM the McCanns for a REVIEW? And all the media FUSS around it at that time? Google it........ This is FACT. Never heard of what you claim as "truth"!

Just saying... If you're going to state this or that, back it up... Good night.
StarsOnYou..
This is the letter from Teresa May:
http://www.met.police.uk/foi/pdfs/disclosure_2012/may_2012/2011120000806.pdf
Dated the same day as the Sun article.

ekatae..
it seems to me from your posts that you are the one who keeps stating you are a "newbie", and I don't see that anyone has been rude or patronising to you. In fact they have been more that helpful to you.

(Hi all!) Okay just then look at the DATE the McCanns started their petition for a REVIEW: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1326470/Madeleine-McCann-petition-force-review-British-Portuguese-signed-9k.html "
Thousands sign Madeleine McCann petition to force joint review by British and Portuguese
By Sophie Freeman
UPDATED: 07:11, 4 November 2010

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1326470/Madeleine-McCann-petition-force-review-British-Portuguese-signed-9k.html#ixzz2lagojuqN
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook"

Now compare with the letter by Theresa May. Here. Point proven, and by the way ( and ROMARIO please read: ) I'm not here, unlike some others, to claim that I know everything in the case, but I guarantee you that I know my bit. I actually have blogs and videos, (which I 'm NOT here to name, this is not why I came to this thread for or forum, I like to keep things separate.), I WAS the person who actually created the FIRST PETITION asking to RE OPEN the case, which I could very easily prove but then again I'm not here to divulge my real name so perhaps some will figure it out anyway, I'm not bothered each way. I also read three books on the case including Mr Amaral's in French. Voila. Might be a "newbie" here but certainly not in the case RESEARCH. Mark my words.

So I think that some of you will recognise me and then acknowledge that NO I am not the fresh amateur who never heard of the case discrepancies before. Read my self introduction on the Welcome page perhaps.

Again I am here to be doing constructive, not competitive -- I think that is the major problem in this country and the USA: people absolutely want to be against each other, not enough to build together. Stop hearing yourself talk in front of a mirror and learn to listen.... to the wind, the birds, the sea.... All have something to say to you, so has your fellow man or woman.

Thanks to many on the previous page for their support and the laughs Wink

- and Chatelaine thank you for your back-up and "explanations".... LOL but sorry to prove uyou wrong. Anyway back to Karen Pinto's topic. I don't really care of that review because it that was fair, by now the infamous pair WOULD have had to answer more questions and I hope that the legal system in Portugal WILL, this time, not get scared off the puppets that protected SOME nor influenced by their counterparts..... and do what they HAVE to do instead of treating 2 ex arguidos "with Kids gloves".

By the way there are more signatures now on the petition for a trial. http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/portugal-gabinete-de-sua-excel%C3%AAncia-a-ministra-da-justi%C3%A7a-normal-justice-wanted-a-trial-for-child-madeleine-mccann-s-parents

by Guest 24.11.13 19:26

Châtelaine wrote:Believe me or not, StarsOnYou, but I DO have faith in SY and PJ. As I've said many time here and elsewhere before, most detectives are detective BECAUSE they want justice be done. The bigger part of them - there are always rotten apples in the basket, of course - are all for getting a case solved, sometimes even after their retirement - they won't give up. A criminal case is never closed for them and we have many examples of them and those.

Yes, you only have to look at PeterMac to see that your words are true. Anyone would think he isn't retired judging by all the research he's done on this case...and forwarded it to Operation Grange. We're very lucky to have him here.

by ultimaThule 24.11.13 19:32

I share your anger and understand your frustration, Stars, but you're taking it out on the wrong people.

Please see the March for Madeleine (proposed to take place in 2014) thread in this section on which I wrote the following:

"I venture to suggest that, if not considerably earlier, by May of next year any need for such a march will be redundant.

Nevertheless, the organisers should be informed that, were they to hold an event of this nature without removing all reference to Madeleine's parents, they may find they have provided those they hold responsible for the child's disappearance with grounds to claim that a fair trial is not possible.

If it wasn't for the fact that the anger of genuine rightminded folk at the failure of any persons to be held accountable in this case is now almost palpable, I would suspect the notion of a march or similar demonstration originated with those who have the most to gain from it, namely, the McCanns together with their willing friends/relatives and paid employees."

At the present time there are 2 ongoing investigations, one by the PJ and one by NSY, into this case and if it transpires that the McCanns are effectively exonerated by either, I'll not only be going on the march - I'll be organising other protests around the UK on a regular basis.

Until these inquiries have concluded, I have very serious concern that premature action on the part of the general public may jeopardise justice for Madeleine.

by StarsOnYou 24.11.13 19:37

p.s., I don't reply to pm's except from Admins and not about personal matters and if some remember / recognise me from previous forums or other sites, please respect my privacy so I'm asking not to be called by pseudos I have used in the past -- as I am extremely concerned about safety, libel etc, confidentiality most of all, and certainly don't want some pro-mccanns or others to harass me like it's been the case in the past and even with hard consequences for a few people I know.
Thank you,
StarsOnYou.

(so please Admins if you see any personal 'naming' or references of the sort, delete, thanks. )

by ultimaThule 24.11.13 19:45

Take a look at this, Stars: http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2013/11/cmtv-maddie-case-special-and-rua-segura.html

The dam has burst, the floodwater is heading for the UK, and it's merely a matter of time until the perpetrators of one of the most heinous crimes of this century are brought to account.

by Guest 24.11.13 19:50

StarsOnYou wrote:p.s., I don't reply to pm's except from Admins and not about personal matters and if some remember / recognise me from previous forums or other sites, please respect my privacy so I'm asking not to be called by pseudos I have used in the past -- as I am extremely concerned about safety, libel etc, confidentiality most of all, and certainly don't want some pro-mccanns or others to harass me like it's been the case in the past and even with hard consequences for a few people I know.
Thank you,
StarsOnYou.

(so please Admins if you see any personal 'naming' or references of the sort, delete, thanks. )

***
OK, so I won't PM you [not that I was planning to]. But I haven't seen any "outing" on line here either. What are you talking about?

by Guest 24.11.13 19:53

ultimaThule wrote:Take a look at this, Stars: http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2013/11/cmtv-maddie-case-special-and-rua-segura.html

The dam has burst, the floodwater is heading for the UK, and it's merely a matter of time until the perpetrators of one of the most heinous crimes of this century are brought to account.

***
It looks like it. Let's be patient. Justice will be done. Fingers crossed.