McCann arrests not 'major breakthrough,' experts says

I will give this a new topic ............




McCann arrests not 'major breakthrough,' experts says




LONDON — The expected arrests of key suspects in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann that British media are calling imminent are being "overplayed," a former police detective with extensive experience of high-profile investigations has told USA TODAY.

"This isn't a major breakthrough. This is a significant piece of information about three individuals who need to be eliminated (from police investigations)," Mark Williams Thomas, who has won awards for his investigative reporting, said Tuesday.

"Burglars don't abduct children," Thomas said. "Child abusers abduct, pedophiles abduct, but if you are in an area burglarizing a house looking for items you are not looking to take a child. In terms of who these individuals are, they are likely to be questioned about what they may have seen as witnesses," he said.

"I doubt very much they will be viewed as suspects," Thomas said. "To call them 'suspects' at this point is overplaying it by far."

Late Monday, several media outlets in the United Kingdom, including the Guardian and Daily Mirror, citing an unidentified spokesman for Kate and Gerry McCann — Madeleine's parents — reported that police in Portugal were ready to arrest and interview "key suspects" connected to alleged robberies in the area where the then 3-year-old Madeleine was taken in the case that has captivated global attention for years.
British investigators, who last year re-launched their own investigation into Madeleine's 2007 disappearance from a resort in Portugal, confirmed Monday they sent a letter of request to Portuguese authorities but would not elaborate on its contents.

Separately, the McCann's spokesman, speaking to the Guardian, said the latest developments were significant. "It means they have the intention of arresting and interviewing X, Y or Z. We don't know who they have their sights on but it's likely it is the burglars," the spokesman told the British news site.

Two of the burglaries took place in April 2007 in the apartment block where the McCann family was staying, ABC reported from London. In both of the April burglaries, entry was gained via a window. One theory is that Madeleine was also abducted after access to the family's vacation rental was gained through a window, but she did not vanish before May.

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However, Thomas, who as a police officer specialized in child protection cases, said Tuesday, "These individuals may have information but as far as a breakthrough? No." More importantly, he said, they need to be ruled out.

"What happens now is very much down to what the authorities in Portugal decide to do next," Thomas said.
Contributing: USA TODAY's William M. Welch.


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Burglars don't abduct children," Thomas said. "Child abusers abduct, pedophiles abduct, but if you are in an area burglarizing a house looking for items you are not looking to take a child. In terms of who these individuals are, they are likely to be questioned about what they may have seen as witnesses," he said.

Well at least Mark Williams-Thomas has got that right!

I notice that this article makes it absolutely clear who the source of the 'burglars' story is - the 'spokesman for the McCanns', or as we know him, Farmer Maggot Mitchell.

In my opinion the McCanns and Mitchell have royally messed up. If their story is true (which I highly doubt), then surely Scotland Yard won't have been best pleased that their operations are now getting global coverage. If their story is false ... well, they've lied about the investigation into the disappearance of their child, to the press and to the world.

I feel that this is a watershed moment.

Now MWT just has to learn that the vast majority of children who disappear do so with the assistance of relatives or people known to them........

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:I notice that this article makes it absolutely clear who the source of the 'burglars' story is - the 'spokesman for the McCanns', or as we know him, Farmer Maggot Mitchell.

In my opinion the McCanns and Mitchell have royally messed up.  If their story is true (which I highly doubt), then surely Scotland Yard won't have been best pleased that their operations are now getting global coverage.  If their story is false ... well, they've lied about the investigation into the disappearance of their child, to the press and to the world.

I feel that this is a watershed moment.

Too a T,hope he gets pulled in for questioning and if not why not

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:I notice that this article makes it absolutely clear who the source of the 'burglars' story is - the 'spokesman for the McCanns', or as we know him, Farmer Maggot Mitchell.

In my opinion the McCanns and Mitchell have royally messed up.  If their story is true (which I highly doubt), then surely Scotland Yard won't have been best pleased that their operations are now getting global coverage.  If their story is false ... well, they've lied about the investigation into the disappearance of their child, to the press and to the world.

I feel that this is a watershed moment.

Somehow I doubt AR/SY will be very happy to see CM scaring off their three witnesses

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Now MWT just has to learn that the vast majority of children who disappear do so with the assistance of relatives or people known to them...

MWT is on the record [2007] as stating that there were great similarities between the abductions [sic] of Joana Cipriano and Madeleine McCann.

At the time, he knew fine well that the mother and uncle of Joana were two years into serving a remarkably light sentence of 16 years each for cruelly ending the 8-year-old's life because she caught them in an act of incest.

I wouldn't trust a word that MWT said - even if he claimed to be Mark Wiliams-Thomas

candyfloss wrote:I will give this a new topic ............




McCann arrests not 'major breakthrough,' experts says




LONDON — The expected arrests of key suspects in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann that British media are calling imminent are being "overplayed," a former police detective with extensive experience of high-profile investigations has told USA TODAY.

"This isn't a major breakthrough. This is a significant piece of information about three individuals who need to be eliminated (from police investigations)," Mark Williams Thomas, who has won awards for his investigative reporting, said Tuesday.

"Burglars don't abduct children," Thomas said. "Child abusers abduct, pedophiles abduct, but if you are in an area burglarizing a house looking for items you are not looking to take a child. In terms of who these individuals are, they are likely to be questioned about what they may have seen as witnesses," he said.

"I doubt very much they will be viewed as suspects," Thomas said. "To call them 'suspects' at this point is overplaying it by far."

Late Monday, several media outlets in the United Kingdom, including the Guardian and Daily Mirror, citing an unidentified spokesman for Kate and Gerry McCann — Madeleine's parents — reported that police in Portugal were ready to arrest and interview "key suspects" connected to alleged robberies in the area where the then 3-year-old Madeleine was taken in the case that has captivated global attention for years.
British investigators, who last year re-launched their own investigation into Madeleine's 2007 disappearance from a resort in Portugal, confirmed Monday they sent a letter of request to Portuguese authorities but would not elaborate on its contents.

Separately, the McCann's spokesman, speaking to the Guardian, said the latest developments were significant. "It means they have the intention of arresting and interviewing X, Y or Z. We don't know who they have their sights on but it's likely it is the burglars," the spokesman told the British news site.

Two of the burglaries took place in April 2007 in the apartment block where the McCann family was staying, ABC reported from London. In both of the April burglaries, entry was gained via a window. One theory is that Madeleine was also abducted after access to the family's vacation rental was gained through a window, but she did not vanish before May.

REPORTS: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

However, Thomas, who as a police officer specialized in child protection cases, said Tuesday, "These individuals may have information but as far as a breakthrough? No." More importantly, he said, they need to be ruled out.

"What happens now is very much down to what the authorities in Portugal decide to do next," Thomas said.
Contributing: USA TODAY's William M. Welch.


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I didn't know this,is there any place on the internet I can see these awards

I bet the phones will be 'red hot' between Jim and Mark, even as we type!

Not even 'funny'

But MWT had better 'clarrie-fy' his 'burglars do not abduct children' remark

"Of course they do, that's all they do," we'll no doubt hear from the other child protection 'experts' very shortly.!

What burglars don't do is take anything of 'value'!

Quote:

Mark Williams-Thomas: I ran the Savile film like a criminal investigation




As the only ex-copper in a room full of journalists and television executives, Mark Williams-Thomas no doubt felt slightly out of place at the RTS Television Journalism awards last week. But the former police detective was there because he pulled off the scoop of the year: he exposed the dark side of [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

The RTS judges described his ITV Exposure documentary as being "a sensation without ever being sensationalist" – a subtle accolade for an hour-long film that sparked a national outcry about decades of hidden abuse and sent shockwaves through the BBC.

Although he has been out of uniform for more than a decade, Williams-Thomas is policemanlike when he speaks about his investigation, which he codenamed "Project DJ". "Whilst in one way the victims have had justice, ultimately Savile has got away with it," he says. "I'd love to have seen Savile in the Old Bailey, court one, facing his demons."

When we meet, prestigious industry awards are far from Williams-Thomas's mind. He is concerned about changes to relations between the police and media and the threat to serious [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

As a police officer in Surrey, he would pass information to local reporters if he believed its disclosure was in the public interest. If those conversations happened today, Williams-Thomas would be facing arrest or suspension.

He believes investigative journalism in Britain has "taken a massive hit" over the past year as a result of public officials' responses to the Leveson inquiry, which put a spotlight on "too close" relations between some senior Metropolitan police officers and tabloid journalists. "We struggle in this country to get the pendulum in the middle. We go from one extreme to another," he says, describing as "particularly worrying" the restrictions on police officers talking to the media introduced after the Elizabeth Filkin report on Metropolitan police links with journalists. The concern, he says, is that closing down this communication channel will lead to misinformation filling the void and injustices going unreported.

"There's now this real worry that we can't trust senior officers to talk, and that is a real concern," he adds. "Police have a right to ensure that correct information is out there and I think that's entirely appropriate. I don't think you're breaching any confidence there."

Williams-Thomas has worked closely with Scotland Yard's Operation Yewtree inquiry into abuse by Savile and others, sharing new leads and contact details for victims as he proceeds. He has a dossier featuring a catalogue of allegations alongside the names of about 20 suspects, including some household names, which he has shared with detectives. In some cases that has led to arrests, he says, although he does not reveal names.

A number of figures, including the comedian Freddie Starr, DJ Dave Lee Travis and PR man Max Clifford, are on police bail waiting to learn whether they will face sexual offence charges after being detained under Operation Yewtree.

At a little over over six feet, Williams-Thomas looks every inch the policeman. He began his police career in Surrey in 1989, where he was a detective and family liaison officer. He launched the high-profile investigation into the singer and record and TV producer Jonathan King in 2000, leading to his conviction in 2001 for abusing boys, and led a local inquiry into paedophilia.

Williams-Thomas has described himself as a "doer" during his 11 years in the force and was once told by a superior that he was a "nightmare to manage". Although his investigation into Savile was methodical, the former detective carries the air of a maverick who you can imagine becoming frustrated by the bureaucracy of modern-day policing.

He left the force in 2000 and set up an independent child protection firm, WT Associates, in 2005. Since then, Williams-Thomas has been a regular pundit on Sky News, commenting on high-profile criminal investigations including the disappearance of Madeleine McCann and the case of the Ipswich serial killer Steve Wright. His television work includes stints on ITV1's current affairs show Tonight and reports for BBC2's Newsnight.

But it was in February last year that Williams-Thomas embarked on his biggest investigation yet. A year ago this month, he recalls telling ITV commissioning editors that he believed there were 500 victims of Savile. That horrifying prediction turned out to be scarily accurate, as Scotland Yard confirmed in January that [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

"I ran it as though it was a criminal investigation and on the basis that I didn't want anyone else to know what was going on. It was very secretive," he says. It was conducted like an old-school police inquiry, with bits of "soft intelligence" recorded meticulously on paper files rather than computers. Only Williams-Thomas and his trusted ITV producer Lesley Gardiner knew the identities of the women who chose not to speak on the record about Savile.

After six months of shoe-leather reporting up and down the country, the pair uncovered a pattern of abuse that touched the BBC's headquarters in London, Stoke Mandeville hospital, Broadmoor and Leeds General Infirmary.

Williams-Thomas is careful not to be publicly critical of Newsnight for infamously dropping its own exposé of Savile, in which he was also involved – a decision that ultimately compelled editor Peter Rippon to step down. The calamity was caused by a breakdown in communication, he says, although he is full of praise for the two Newsnight journalists, Liz Mackean and Meirion Jones, for allowing him to take the investigation to ITV.

It was not until the weekend before broadcast on 3 October that the gravity of the ITV film hit the programme-makers. "That weekend was a nightmare – one of my worst weekends of working in telly," he recalls. He refused to work on the Saturday as the pressure started to take its toll.

Did he ever worry that his exposé would be disbelieved? "There was always the opportunity that we were going to show a programme and nobody else was going to come forward. As a result of that the criticism was going to be massive: people were going to criticise me, the producer, ITV. There was a huge risk in terms of reputation for everyone involved."

No broadcaster would have touched the film if Savile had been alive, he says. But Williams-Thomas says he would have "gone to the Sundance festival" and risked being sued by the former Jim'll Fix It host.

He was shocked to the core when Savile's family announced that they would remove the disgraced DJ's gravestone in Scarborough "out of respect for public opinion".

"There's one thing convincing the public, but convincing the family and those closest to him was huge," he explains. "When you start to see streets changed and any semblance of Savile being wiped out ... I can't think of anyone in history who has risen to such heights and fallen so quickly." The TV presenter, known to millions in his lifetime as Saint Jimmy, now lies in an unmarked grave on the north Yorkshire coast, his public persona finally exposed as a myth.

What next for the man who exposed the myth? Williams-Thomas says he is working on four big projects, adding that for one ("which is huge") he is looking into allegations involving sexual abuse by "a very significant individual" at Elm Guest House in south-west London.

End of Quote.

Source:
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Devil's advocate here- what if burglars entered the apartment and accidentally seriously harmed Madeleine in some way, panicked and left and concealed her body later.

Burglars do encounter children and panic:

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Could the MET be thinking along these lines- they must have some reason for identifying the three burglars.

There is already a Mark Williams-Thomas thread, so any discussions re him please discuss there.

This thread is about him saying it is not a major breakthrough and burglars don't take children.   So can we stay on that topic please.

Another home invasion involving harmed children:

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"Four men armed with handguns burst into a Cinnaminson home Thursday afternoon, assaulted the occupants—including two toddlers—and fled after ransacking the home, police said."

Aoife wrote:Devil's advocate here- what if burglars entered the apartment and accidentally seriously harmed Madeleine in some way, panicked and left and concealed her body later.

Burglars do encounter children and panic:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Could the MET be thinking along these lines- they must have some reason for identifying the three burglars.

1) Can a three year old and two two yearolds scare the hell out of burglars?

2) Why wait around in apartment waiting for the tell tale scent of death?

Aoife wrote:Devil's advocate here- what if burglars entered the apartment and accidentally seriously harmed Madeleine in some way, panicked and left and concealed her body later.

Burglars do encounter children and panic:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Could the MET be thinking along these lines- they must have some reason for identifying the three burglars.

What three burglars? It seems quite clear that the source for that story is Mitchell.

From the recent Guardian article:

"The spokesman for Kate and Gerry McCann said: "The letter is a significant development. It is necessary for British police to request the Portuguese authorities allow them to operate on their turf.

"It means they have the intention of arresting and interviewing X, Y or Z. We don't know who they have their sights on but it's likely it is the burglars.""

Simple abduction of a three year old from an apartment:

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Burglary Kidnapping in Colorado:

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whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:

Aoife wrote:Devil's advocate here- what if burglars entered the apartment and accidentally seriously harmed Madeleine in some way, panicked and left and concealed her body later.

Burglars do encounter children and panic:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Could the MET be thinking along these lines- they must have some reason for identifying the three burglars.

What three burglars?  It seems quite clear that the source for that story is Mitchell.

From the recent Guardian article:

"The spokesman for Kate and Gerry McCann said: "The letter is a significant development. It is necessary for British police to request the Portuguese authorities allow them to operate on their turf.

"It means they have the intention of arresting and interviewing X, Y or Z. We don't know who they have their sights on but it's likely it is the burglars.""

Have we had this from sy --,NO----,I bluddy hope Mitchell is taken in and questioned about spreading false rumours

Separately, the McCann's spokesman, speaking to the Guardian, said the latest developments were significant. "It means they have the intention of arresting and interviewing X, Y or Z. We don't know who they have their sights on but it's likely it is the burglars," the spokesman told the British news site.

No, it wasn't pinky who said XYZ may be arrested and interviewed, in that order.   

Cadavar scent in the McCanns' hire car says not.

Cadavar scent on Kate McCann's clothes says not.

And this historic one from 1874.

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I think we can say the MWT maybe has not done as much research as he should- all those came from Googling the first page of "Burglary Kidnapping Children"!

Someones grasping at straws

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:Cadavar scent in the McCanns' hire car says not.

Cadavar scent on Kate McCann's clothes says not.

Scotland Yard seem to be taking no note of that finding.

We all need to know why they're not!

Aoife wrote:

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:Cadavar scent in the McCanns' hire car says not.

Cadavar scent on Kate McCann's clothes says not.

Scotland Yard seem to be taking no note of that finding.

But how do you know that

tiny wrote:Someones grasping at straws

I don't think this happened at all- I said Devils Advocate at the beginning. I do think that MWT has not really looked at the history of home invasion/burglary/kidnapping sufficiently if all of those show up on the first page of a Google search!

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:We all need to know why they're not!

Agree. It would be interesting, but they seem to discount it. Else they would be treating the McCanns as possible suspects, which they have said that they are not.

tiny wrote:

Aoife wrote:

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:Cadavar scent in the McCanns' hire car says not.

Cadavar scent on Kate McCann's clothes says not.

Scotland Yard seem to be taking no note of that finding.

But how do you know that

Because they have said that the McCanns are not considered suspects currently.

Aoife wrote:

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:Cadavar scent in the McCanns' hire car says not.

Cadavar scent on Kate McCann's clothes says not.

Scotland Yard seem to be taking no note of that finding.

Regardless of how you could possibly know that, it's irrelevant to the question you asked.  You played Devil's Advocate, suggesting that it might well have been burglars.  I've responded with two pieces of evidence indicating that there were no burglars - cadavar scent on KM's clothes and in the hire car.

Unless you're dismissing the detections of Eddie and Keela there is your answer.

Aoife wrote:

tiny wrote:

Aoife wrote:

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:Cadavar scent in the McCanns' hire car says not.

Cadavar scent on Kate McCann's clothes says not.

Scotland Yard seem to be taking no note of that finding.

But how do you know that

Because they have said that the McCanns are not considered suspects currently.

Yes,but would sy tell them they are but they cant arrest them yet as they have to have a watertight case.