Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)
The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ :: British Police / Government Interference :: Smithman: Crimewatch Reconstruction and the appeal for new info / suspects
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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)
by thetruthbeknown 30.10.13 17:00
Yes, I think there is some kind of damning evidence, against someone or maybe in another area? I doubt we would know at present..I have a feeling PJ would not have agreed to reopen without a feeling of it being a clear cut, and the Smith/efits etc were evidence im pretty sure was around when they said it was unlikely to reopen back in 2012. and as said, all other possiblities must be discarded and proved as to why they are not relevant..I would expect that to happen first before the final blow with the reopening..galena wrote:I have to say that if the efits are all they have it hardly seems worth re-opening the case. Efits done weeks later by witnesses who said at the time they wouldn't be able to identify the man they saw immediately afterwards?thetruthbeknown wrote:I was refferring to the review..the Smiths statements had been taken and noted in 2007, but I think proceedings were mainly thwarted by PIs, McCanns and their spin, the focus was deliberately guided to Tannerman. The case was shelved because of the lack of evidence, which I believe was hampered.galena wrote:Kind of puzzled by this comment. Surely they've known about this 'new evidence' since the Smiths came forward in 2007?
But for the new 'efits' and the follow up of the Smith sighting, that had been established during the review. However, was not 'significant' enough for a reopening in 2012. IMO
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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)
by sar 30.10.13 17:39
Just been google earthing pdl, where smithman was sighted, tapas bar etc. [switched to satellite image] distances don't look that far, for someone who's fit, a trip one way with "something" and an unburdened return journey. Even at night by street lighting. To come back up around the tennis courts "puffing and panting/ distressed" at the right moment, not that hard.
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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)
by Spandex 31.10.13 6:51
I have a gut feeling that one of the tapas have turned and together with the Smith sighting and phone records may be enough evidence?
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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)
by Silver Shuffle 31.10.13 6:55
Gosh I hope you're Feeling is right... think with theSpandex wrote:I have a gut feeling that one of the tapas have turned and together with the Smith sighting and phone records may be enough evidence?
they are definitely trying to bury Smithman!
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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)
by Research_Reader 31.10.13 10:18
I think Smithman was sighted fairly near to where Sergey Malinka was living.
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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)
by PeterMac 31.10.13 10:29
Is it clear or "Clarrified" that Smithman and Flatman / Tractorman are supposed to be one and the same
or is the pink one trying to introduce yet another suspect.A ohoto of Tractorman whould help.
(I note that according to one account he originally came from the Cap Verde Islands - which suggests the colour of his skin might be at the extreme end of Swarthy !)
or is the pink one trying to introduce yet another suspect.A ohoto of Tractorman whould help.
(I note that according to one account he originally came from the Cap Verde Islands - which suggests the colour of his skin might be at the extreme end of Swarthy !)
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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)
by jeanmonroe 31.10.13 10:32
WHERE could Smithman/Tractorman have been heading?
Obviously, to the farm that his mate, ol' Macdonald, had!
Obviously, to the farm that his mate, ol' Macdonald, had!
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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)
by thetruthbeknown 31.10.13 10:33
Nothing is clear in this casePeterMac wrote:Is it clear or "Clarrified" that Smithman and Flatman / Tractorman are supposed to be one and the same
or is the pink one trying to introduce yet another suspect.A ohoto of Tractorman whould help.
(I note that according to one account he originally came from the Cap Verde Islands - which suggests the colour of his skin might be at the extreme end of Swarthy !)
IMO I think tractorman is just another process of elimination of earlier theories/sightings
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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)
by jeanmonroe 31.10.13 10:37
So NOT a blonde Scandanavian 'LURKER' chap wearing BIGGGGG sunglasses?thetruthbeknown wrote:Nothing is clear in this casePeterMac wrote:Is it clear or "Clarrified" that Smithman and Flatman / Tractorman are supposed to be one and the same
or is the pink one trying to introduce yet another suspect.A ohoto of Tractorman whould help.
(I note that according to one account he originally came from the Cap Verde Islands - which suggests the colour of his skin might be at the extreme end of Swarthy !)
IMO I think tractorman is just another process of elimination of earlier theories/sightings
( I'll NEVER, EVER 'forget' those BIGGGGGG glasses, says 'witness')
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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)
by Sietah 31.10.13 10:42
Think it would be something like this:PeterMac wrote:A ohoto of Tractorman whould help.
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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)
by StraightThinking 02.11.13 7:37
Why does everyone assume that Smithman might have been taking M from 5a to a hiding place?
It's much more likely that she wandered off and was found close to where Smithman was spotted
ie everything is back-to-front
That means that K was genuinely surprised when she found her missing, which seems fair enough
Where was Smithman going? Maybe to a temporary hiding place, and eventually back to 5a when the initial search was over and everyone had gone home
That would allow the cadaverine time to develop and for the scent to accumulate after the body was placed behind the sofa
The best place to hide a body is the place that has already been thoroughly searched
It's much more likely that she wandered off and was found close to where Smithman was spotted
ie everything is back-to-front
That means that K was genuinely surprised when she found her missing, which seems fair enough
Where was Smithman going? Maybe to a temporary hiding place, and eventually back to 5a when the initial search was over and everyone had gone home
That would allow the cadaverine time to develop and for the scent to accumulate after the body was placed behind the sofa
The best place to hide a body is the place that has already been thoroughly searched
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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)
by ProfessorPPlum 02.11.13 7:57
So MM wandered off into the night, KM was genuinely surprised to find her gone and raised the alarm. Smithman then kills MM and - despite a huge and genuine police, public and then press furore - brings her body back to 5A and puts her behind sofa so that weeks later the dogs will alert?
Have I read your post right straightthinking?
Have I read your post right straightthinking?
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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)
by StraightThinking 02.11.13 20:53
No
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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)
by Guest 02.11.13 21:16
Inasmuch as I know the McCanns left 5A May 3 late night/early morning May 4 for the Payne's apartment and were allocated in another apartment at OC the next day. AFAIK they were escorted out of 5A with their belongings the morning of May 4. I've seen pictures of that. So WHEN could Madeleine's body have been hidden in 5A and NOT discovered by the PJ? I'm losing you ...
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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)
by StraightThinking 02.11.13 21:30
Link here:
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01:00 | The apartment was not cleared of searchers until 2am |
01:00 | The PJ arrived at 1am |
03:30 | By 3.30am the police had packed it in for the night. |
04:00 | Gerry went out at about 4am with David Payne, another of their group |
06:00 | Later, at about 6am, the McCanns went out alone and walked around the scrubland on the outskirts of the village |
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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)
by Guest 02.11.13 21:35
Oh, please. And by 3:30 am the PT police hadn't found anything behind the sofa ... ?
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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)
by StraightThinking 02.11.13 21:44
I doubt there was anything behind the sofa before 3.30!
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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)
by Guest 02.11.13 21:57
***StraightThinking wrote:I doubt there was anything behind the sofa before 3.30!
O.K. Now you've lost me completely.
Good night :-)
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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)
by StraightThinking 02.11.13 21:59
Oh dear, do try to keep up - the timeline shows a window of opportunity and you mentioned it yourself
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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)
by Guest 02.11.13 22:09
Just one go, before I turn into the silken sheets: AFAIK there was GNR and PJ on-site continuously.
It's just too late now to look for and dish up all of the GNR and PJ statements. Have a good night ...zzz ...
It's just too late now to look for and dish up all of the GNR and PJ statements. Have a good night ...zzz ...
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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)
by russiandoll 02.11.13 22:15
I am confused as well by your post, maybe if it was clearer we would not need to keep up.
You associate Smithman with 5a, so not a stranger then. That is confusing me, because I read your theory as a woken and wandering child picked up and killed by a stranger. Then I thought I had misunderstood it and re read it as a familiar adult found M who had come to harm after wandering off.
How did cadaverine develop behind the sofa if M died on the street?
You associate Smithman with 5a, so not a stranger then. That is confusing me, because I read your theory as a woken and wandering child picked up and killed by a stranger. Then I thought I had misunderstood it and re read it as a familiar adult found M who had come to harm after wandering off.
How did cadaverine develop behind the sofa if M died on the street?
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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)
by StraightThinking 02.11.13 22:33
How you read my post, russiandoll, is up to you, what matters is what I actually wrote
I'm not here to point the finger at anyone, I don't know what happened, but I do recognise what might be possible
People often say of this case that the pieces of the jigsaw don't fit, and I agree. That's because some of the accepted jigsaw pieces aren't the correct ones but everyone assumes that they are
eg this thread has widely assumed that Smithman might have been taking a deceased M from 5a to somewhere else. That is a huge assumption. As I suggested, she may have wandered off and been found near the Smith sighting location. If one makes assumptions without evidence, one is in danger of drawing wrong conclusions. So we must keep an open mind on where Smithman found her, if indeed there was a Smithman and it was M
Another example of jigsaw pieces not fitting: if M died in 5a on the evening of May 3 during the Tapas meal, she wouldn't have been there long enough for the cadaverine to develop
However, if the body spent even a short time in 5a after the initial search was over, the scent would have been detectable later on
Between 3.30 and daylight on May 4 is an interesting time
I'm not here to point the finger at anyone, I don't know what happened, but I do recognise what might be possible
People often say of this case that the pieces of the jigsaw don't fit, and I agree. That's because some of the accepted jigsaw pieces aren't the correct ones but everyone assumes that they are
eg this thread has widely assumed that Smithman might have been taking a deceased M from 5a to somewhere else. That is a huge assumption. As I suggested, she may have wandered off and been found near the Smith sighting location. If one makes assumptions without evidence, one is in danger of drawing wrong conclusions. So we must keep an open mind on where Smithman found her, if indeed there was a Smithman and it was M
Another example of jigsaw pieces not fitting: if M died in 5a on the evening of May 3 during the Tapas meal, she wouldn't have been there long enough for the cadaverine to develop
However, if the body spent even a short time in 5a after the initial search was over, the scent would have been detectable later on
Between 3.30 and daylight on May 4 is an interesting time
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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)
by russiandoll 02.11.13 22:44
I think it fair to say if more than one person misunderstands your posts that possibly it could have been clearer. Sarcastic remarks to chatelaine for example...suggesting it was her fault that she could not grasp your point were unfair. Why don't you just be straight and say who you believe did what and when? I am interested in any theory.
eta your post makes more sense now, I get it, so thanks for elaborating.
eta your post makes more sense now, I get it, so thanks for elaborating.
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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)
by ProfessorPPlum 02.11.13 23:42
Yes, unfortunately I don't follow. Wandered off...come to harm...then somehow (for some reason) body brought back to 5A to leave cadaverine behind the sofa some time between 3.30am and 6am?
Except there's no evidence that Madeleine wandered off. No evidence that she came to harm outside of the apartment. No evidence that someone found her well / hurt / dead outside 5A. No evidence that someone brought her back to 5A.
There's just cadaverine behind the sofa in 5A.
If the blood dog indicated in 5A then that's a pretty good indication that she came to harm in 5A. If there's cadaverine in the same location it shows her body lay there. If her body lay there, then Occam's razor says it's most likely she died there.
Except there's no evidence that Madeleine wandered off. No evidence that she came to harm outside of the apartment. No evidence that someone found her well / hurt / dead outside 5A. No evidence that someone brought her back to 5A.
There's just cadaverine behind the sofa in 5A.
If the blood dog indicated in 5A then that's a pretty good indication that she came to harm in 5A. If there's cadaverine in the same location it shows her body lay there. If her body lay there, then Occam's razor says it's most likely she died there.
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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)
by currio 03.11.13 0:07
StraightThinking wrote:
Another example of jigsaw pieces not fitting: if M died in 5a on the evening of May 3 during the Tapas meal, she wouldn't have been there long enough for the cadaverine to develop
Who knows, if she died, when she died?......maybe the day before...now could you believe a word they said
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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)
by currio 03.11.13 2:18
...if Maddie died in the apartment as the evidence would suggest...who knows it didn't happen before May 3, long enough for the cadeverine to develop .. however long that iscurrio wrote:StraightThinking wrote:
Another example of jigsaw pieces not fitting: if M died in 5a on the evening of May 3 during the Tapas meal, she wouldn't have been there long enough for the cadaverine to develop
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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)
by StraightThinking 03.11.13 8:54
ProfessorPPlum wrote:Yes, unfortunately I don't follow. Wandered off...come to harm...then somehow (for some reason) body brought back to 5A to leave cadaverine behind the sofa some time between 3.30am and 6am?
The reason would be that you can't leave a body lying round outside waiting to be spotted the following day
Except there's no evidence that Madeleine wandered off. No evidence that she came to harm outside of the apartment. No evidence that someone found her well / hurt / dead outside 5A. No evidence that someone brought her back to 5A.
There's no evidence that she died in 5a either. Scent of death, yes, according to Eddie, but not the slightest evidence that anyone actually died there
If the blood dog indicated in 5A then that's a pretty good indication that she came to harm in 5A. If there's cadaverine in the same location it shows her body lay there. If her body lay there, then Occam's razor says it's most likely she died there.
Blood dogs indicate blood, not death. And by the same reasoning as you have made, if someone is spotted carrying a dead child somewhere in PdL (if indeed it was a dead child), it's most likely they came from somewhere nearby rather than 5 mins away
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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)
by StraightThinking 03.11.13 9:00
Apologies for my apparent tone, russiandoll, but you will find that it was the other poster who started the sarcasm, and I responded accordingly. But I am not interested in petty squabbles so that's finished now. What I am interested in is knowing why the suggestion that she wandered off (and her body was was discovered by Smithman some way down the road) should be considered so unlikely, when wandering off is a real possibility, supported by Pat Brown among others, and why the same poster always pops up to shoot down the idea and treat it with such disdain. Yes, I really do find that interesting.russiandoll wrote:I think it fair to say if more than one person misunderstands your posts that possibly it could have been clearer. Sarcastic remarks to chatelaine for example...suggesting it was her fault that she could not grasp your point were unfair. Why don't you just be straight and say who you believe did what and when? I am interested in any theory.
Regarding the lack of clarity in my post, I feel uncomfortable about accusing people and prefer to draw attention to possible scenarios. You and the Professor have made many perceptive comments on the forum and I am sure you are capable of joining the dots.
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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)
by galena 03.11.13 9:37
I agree. I think that now Tannerman has been ruled out and the window for abduction is larger, the most important evidence remaining to us is the cadaver dog evidence. I originally supported theories that she might have wandered away, still be alive but changed them in the light of this evidence. I think we need to assume it is significant, follow where it goes and not try to incorporate it into existing theories at the risk of a loss of credibility. I have devised a rule - if any theory is more convulutated and difficult to believe than the McCanns' version of events I don't bother with it. The truth is usually simple.ProfessorPPlum wrote:Yes, unfortunately I don't follow. Wandered off...come to harm...then somehow (for some reason) body brought back to 5A to leave cadaverine behind the sofa some time between 3.30am and 6am?
Except there's no evidence that Madeleine wandered off. No evidence that she came to harm outside of the apartment. No evidence that someone found her well / hurt / dead outside 5A. No evidence that someone brought her back to 5A.
There's just cadaverine behind the sofa in 5A.
If the blood dog indicated in 5A then that's a pretty good indication that she came to harm in 5A. If there's cadaverine in the same location it shows her body lay there. If her body lay there, then Occam's razor says it's most likely she died there.
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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)
by jowie 03.11.13 9:41
I will never believe in a million years that Madeleine woke and wandered. Do you seriously believe that she woke up in a dark room, opened the bedroom door and then closed it to, but not as it was left( oh and forgot to take cuddle cat with her) proceeded to go through the apartment to find the French doors ( which were covered by the curtains that her parents had drawn across before they left) then opened the sliding door and closed it behind her. From there she opened the child gate at the top of the stairs, walked down the stairs onto the street ( where apparently there was so many coming and going that no-one saw her. Instead of calling out to her mother or screaming and crying ( as one would expect of a three year old child ) she calmly walked past the main door of the complex ( which she had been through many times) and headed in the direct ion of the beach ??? On a cold and dark night, with only her thin pj's on ??StraightThinking wrote:Apologies for my apparent tone, russiandoll, but you will find that it was the other poster who started the sarcasm, and I responded accordingly. But I am not interested in petty squabbles so that's finished now. What I am interested in is knowing why the suggestion that she wandered off (and was discovered by Smithman some way down the road) should be considered so unlikely, when wandering off is a real possibility, supported by Pat Brown among others, and why the same poster always pops up to shoot down the idea and treat it with such disdain. Yes, I really do find that interesting.russiandoll wrote:I think it fair to say if more than one person misunderstands your posts that possibly it could have been clearer. Sarcastic remarks to chatelaine for example...suggesting it was her fault that she could not grasp your point were unfair. Why don't you just be straight and say who you believe did what and when? I am interested in any theory.
Regarding the lack of clarity in my post, I feel uncomfortable about accusing people and prefer to draw attention to possible scenarios. You have made many perceptive comments on the forum and I am sure you are capable of joining the dots.
Perish the thought that she never once considered leaving her siblings alone to fend for themselves!
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» Criminal Profiler Pat Brown will be heading to Portugal on February 6th (2012)
The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ :: British Police / Government Interference :: Smithman: Crimewatch Reconstruction and the appeal for new info / suspects
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