FOR NEW MEMBERS Smiths` Descriptions of Man Carrying Child + Mr Amaral's description in book
The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ :: British Police / Government Interference :: Smithman: Crimewatch Reconstruction and the appeal for new info / suspects
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FOR NEW MEMBERS Smiths` Descriptions of Man Carrying Child + Mr Amaral's description in book
by Woofer 14.10.13 18:33
If this new information is supposed to have come from the Smiths, here are their original descriptions :-
Martin Smith -
"— Regarding the description of the individual who carried the child he states that: he was Caucasian, around 175 to 180m in height. He appeared to be about 35/40 years old. He had an average build, a bit on the thin side. His hair was short, in a basic male cut, brown in colour. He cannot state if it was dark or lighter in tone. He did not wear glasses and had no beard or moustache. He did not notice any other relevant details partly due to the fact that the lighting was not very good.
— He was wearing cream or beige-coloured cloth trousers in a classic cut. He did not see his shoes. He did not notice the body clothing and cannot describe the colour or fashion of the same. "
Mary Smith -
"— (1) the individual was male, Caucasian, light-skinned, between 20/30 years of age, of normal physical build, around 1,70/1,75 metres in height. At the time she saw his face but now cannot remember it. She thinks that he had a clean-shaven face. She does not remember seeing tattoos, scars or earrings. She did not notice his ears. His hair was thick-ish, light brown in colour, short at the back (normal) and a bit longer on the top.
— His trousers were smooth "rights" along the legs, beige in colour, cotton fabric, thicker than linen, possibly with buttons, and without any other decoration.
— She did not see what he was wearing above his trousers as the child covered him almost completely at the top.
— She did not see what shoes he was wearing.
— The individual's gait was normal, between a fast walk and a run. He did not look tired, moving in a manner usual when one carries a child."
Peter Smith -
"— The description of the individual who carried the child was: Caucasian, around 175 to 180 cm tall. About 35 years, or older. He was somewhat tanned as a result of sun exposure. Average build, in good shape. Short hair, brown in colour. He does not remember if he wore glasses, or had a beard or a moustache. He did not notice any other relevant details as the lighting was bad.
— He also does not remember the clothing the individual wore or his shoes. He states that he did not notice those details as his pregnant wife was somewhat ill and he was constantly attending to her, not caring about observation of the individual."
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Adding this to the opening thread...........
Martin Smith -
"— Regarding the description of the individual who carried the child he states that: he was Caucasian, around 175 to 180m in height. He appeared to be about 35/40 years old. He had an average build, a bit on the thin side. His hair was short, in a basic male cut, brown in colour. He cannot state if it was dark or lighter in tone. He did not wear glasses and had no beard or moustache. He did not notice any other relevant details partly due to the fact that the lighting was not very good.
— He was wearing cream or beige-coloured cloth trousers in a classic cut. He did not see his shoes. He did not notice the body clothing and cannot describe the colour or fashion of the same. "
Mary Smith -
"— (1) the individual was male, Caucasian, light-skinned, between 20/30 years of age, of normal physical build, around 1,70/1,75 metres in height. At the time she saw his face but now cannot remember it. She thinks that he had a clean-shaven face. She does not remember seeing tattoos, scars or earrings. She did not notice his ears. His hair was thick-ish, light brown in colour, short at the back (normal) and a bit longer on the top.
— His trousers were smooth "rights" along the legs, beige in colour, cotton fabric, thicker than linen, possibly with buttons, and without any other decoration.
— She did not see what he was wearing above his trousers as the child covered him almost completely at the top.
— She did not see what shoes he was wearing.
— The individual's gait was normal, between a fast walk and a run. He did not look tired, moving in a manner usual when one carries a child."
Peter Smith -
"— The description of the individual who carried the child was: Caucasian, around 175 to 180 cm tall. About 35 years, or older. He was somewhat tanned as a result of sun exposure. Average build, in good shape. Short hair, brown in colour. He does not remember if he wore glasses, or had a beard or a moustache. He did not notice any other relevant details as the lighting was bad.
— He also does not remember the clothing the individual wore or his shoes. He states that he did not notice those details as his pregnant wife was somewhat ill and he was constantly attending to her, not caring about observation of the individual."
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Adding this to the opening thread...........
sherlock wrote:What is clear that the build up to and the transmission of last nights Crimewatch programme has caused many more people to ask questions about what is really going on.
Scotland Yard announce with great bluster that “the timeline has changed” because they’ve worked it out!
Given the amount of “new” members joining the forum who may have not yet had a chance to read “all the evidence” I think it would be helpful to just highlight two chapters from Gonçalo Amaral's book: 'Maddie: The truth about the lie' to show that many years before SY got involved the “working out” of the case had already reached where SY find themselves now!!
Chapter 8
May 3rd, after 9.27pm, Dolphin restaurant,
Vila da Luz
The Smiths, from Ireland, are spending their holiday in Praia da Luz. After having dinner at the restaurant, they go to Kelly's bar, 50 metres away. They leave there at around 9.55pm to go back to their apartment in Estrela da Luz, west of the Ocean Club, 300 metres further on
They go in a northerly direction, the group spreading out; the children are never far away from the adults. There's nobody about. They climb a few steps to reach 25 de Abril street, cross it and turn left into 1 de Maio street, that runs along the west side of the Ocean Club. They haven't gone 30 metres when they come across a man walking up the middle of the road. He is carrying a child in his arms, head resting on his left shoulder. The Smiths don't see the face of the little girl, whose arms hang by her sides. She is dressed in pale-coloured, maybe pink, pyjamas; her feet are bare, she is white and she has blonde hair that covers her neck. The individual's appearance gives the impression that he is not a tourist. He is wearing cream-coloured or beige trousers, classic in style, perhaps linen or cotton. He is a white man, aged around 30 to 35, with no other distinguishing features: he is between 1.70m and 1.80m tall, is visibly in good physical condition; his brown hair is cut short, his face is tanned.
At this time, images of Robert Murat - considered to be the main suspect - begin to be circulated all over the world. After they return to Ireland, the Smiths continue to follow the case. They learn that, according to Jane Tanner's statements, Murat is definitely the man encountered on the night of the abduction. Mr Smith then gets in touch with the Irish police to relate what he saw on the night of May 3rd. He insists, categorically, that the man they came across with the little girl in his arms was not Robert Murat. He is sure of it because he knows him. With hindsight, he is utterly convinced that the little girl was definitely Madeleine. We secretly organise for the Smiths to come to Portugal. On May 26th, in the offices of the Department of Criminal Investigation in Portimão, we interview the father and his son. What they say seems credible. However, because of the dim street lighting, they say they would have a hard time formally recognising the man who was carrying the child. On the other hand, they describe very clearly how the man was holding the little girl and how he was walking. That scene is indelibly printed in their memory. After their interview, they went back to the scene, accompanied by investigators. They indicate the precise place where they came across the man.
Their coming to Portugal as well as their statements are kept secret. Within a few days, they go back to Ireland, but contact is maintained: they undertake to let us have any further details they remember. We finally have credible witness statements about that stranger who, on the night of May 3rd, was walking in the streets of Vila da Luz with a child in his arms.
Chapter 20
AN IRISH FAMILY IN A STATE OF SHOCK.
The McCann couple return to Great Britain after more than four months spent in the Algarve. It's an almost triumphant return. The media coverage is such that you'd think you were witnessing the liberation of hostages held for years in a far-off country. Gerald McCann is shown on television carrying his son, as he descends from the plane. The child's head is against Gerald's left shoulder and his arms dangling by his sides. Gerald walks across the tarmac, still holding his son closely against himself.
In Ireland, the Smiths are watching the BBC news, which is broadcasting the event. For them, it's a shock: that person, they recognise him. That way of carrying his child, that way of walking...It's the man they saw at around 10pm on May 3rd, with a little girl, who seemed to be deeply asleep, in his arms.
This image, brings back with a jolt, that of the man they encountered in the streets of Vila da Luz, on the evening of Madeleine's disappearance. It's as if the scene is repeating itself ....Mr Smith thinking he's hallucinating, sees the same report on other channels, ITV and Sky News. From that moment, he is sure: the man they came across that night was Gerald McCann. Of that there is very little doubt. Upset by the implications of this discovery, he alerts the police and waits to be called back by those in charge of the investigation.
When we receive this information, at the end of September, we think we finally have the piece that will allow us to complete the puzzle. Because of this, we may be able to reconstruct the course of events on that cold night of May 3rd in Vila da Luz. We have a better understanding of why Jane Tanner, "sent," the alleged abductor in the opposite direction to that taken by the man seen by the Smith family. Suspicion had to be diverted from Gerald who - if he was the guilty party - would have taken this route: leaving apartment 5A, the individual who was carrying the child, did not go east, towards Murat's house, but west in the direction of the beach.
We decide to get the Smiths back to the Algarve, for a formal identification of Gerry McCann - by means of televised images, certainly - direct confrontation being impossible - and possibly proceed to a reconstruction of the events of the night of May 3rd. The National Director of the Judiciary police agrees, the process is set in motion, all the details are sorted out; all that remains is to choose the hotel where they will be put up. But the Smiths were never to come back to Portugal. After my departure, the PJ were to change their minds. They asked the Irish police to proceed with interviewing the witness. That decision was to seriously delay the process since the Smiths were not interviewed until several months later. Meanwhile, rumours were to circulate and people not involved with the investigation would be made aware of the existence of this witness; someone allegedly even sought out contact with the family, without its being known to what end.
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Later police statement from Smith - for additional info
by Truthandjustice 14.10.13 18:42
Additional statement by Martin Smith, 30 January 2008
I hereby declare that this statement is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and that I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I will be liable to prosecution if I state in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.
I would like to state that the statement I made on 26th May 2007 in Portugal is correct. The description of the individual that I saw on 3rd May 2007 carrying a child is as follows. He was average build, 5 foot 10” in height, brown hair cut short, aged 40 years approximately. Wearing beige trousers and darkish top maybe a jacket or blazer. He had a full head of hair with a tight cut. This individual was alone. I saw Gerard McCann (sic) going down the plane stairs carrying one of his children on 9th September 2007 BBC news at 10 PM, I have been shown the video clip by Sergeant Hogan which I recognise. A clip I have seen before on the Internet. In relation to the video clips of Gerard McCann and the person I saw on 3rd May 2007 when I saw the BBC news at 10 PM on 9th September 2007 something struck me that it could have been the same person. It was the way Gerard McCann turned his head down which was similar to what the individual did on 3rd May 2007 when we met him. It may have been the way he was carrying the child either. I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerard McCann that I met that night carrying a child. I am basing that on his mannerism in the way he carried the child off the plane. After seeing the BBC news at 10 PM, footage on the 9th September 2007 I contacted Leicestershire police with this information. During that time I spoke to all my family members who were with me on the night of 3rd May 2007 about this and the only one who felt the same way as me was my wife. She had seen the video clip of Gerard McCann walking down the stairs of the plane earlier that day. We did not discuss this until some days later. This statement has been read over to me and is correct.
I hereby declare that this statement is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and that I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I will be liable to prosecution if I state in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.
I would like to state that the statement I made on 26th May 2007 in Portugal is correct. The description of the individual that I saw on 3rd May 2007 carrying a child is as follows. He was average build, 5 foot 10” in height, brown hair cut short, aged 40 years approximately. Wearing beige trousers and darkish top maybe a jacket or blazer. He had a full head of hair with a tight cut. This individual was alone. I saw Gerard McCann (sic) going down the plane stairs carrying one of his children on 9th September 2007 BBC news at 10 PM, I have been shown the video clip by Sergeant Hogan which I recognise. A clip I have seen before on the Internet. In relation to the video clips of Gerard McCann and the person I saw on 3rd May 2007 when I saw the BBC news at 10 PM on 9th September 2007 something struck me that it could have been the same person. It was the way Gerard McCann turned his head down which was similar to what the individual did on 3rd May 2007 when we met him. It may have been the way he was carrying the child either. I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerard McCann that I met that night carrying a child. I am basing that on his mannerism in the way he carried the child off the plane. After seeing the BBC news at 10 PM, footage on the 9th September 2007 I contacted Leicestershire police with this information. During that time I spoke to all my family members who were with me on the night of 3rd May 2007 about this and the only one who felt the same way as me was my wife. She had seen the video clip of Gerard McCann walking down the stairs of the plane earlier that day. We did not discuss this until some days later. This statement has been read over to me and is correct.
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Re: FOR NEW MEMBERS Smiths` Descriptions of Man Carrying Child + Mr Amaral's description in book
by MRNOODLES 14.10.13 19:02
Witness testimony of Aoife Smith, 26 May 2007
Date of Diligence: 2007.05.26
Location: This Department
Name: Aoife Smith
The witness states:
• That she comes to the process as a witness.
• Being of Irish nationality, she does not understand Portuguese in its written or oral form and is accompanied by an interpreter.
• States that she arrived on her Portugal holiday on the 30th of April, 2007. She came with her parents MARTIN and MARY Smith and her two nieces.
• They stayed in the Estrela Da Luz complex in Praia da Luz where her parents have an apartment.
• Her brother PETER was already in the apartment when they arrived as was her sister-in-law, her nephew (six years old), C*** and the son of her sister-in-law, T**** (13 years old).
• They came with the intention of holidaying for about 10 days. The return passage was booked for May 9, 2007. She is not exactly sure of the date.
• Her holidays were spent in the complex pool, in Praia da Luz and in the central commercial district. Normally, however, they spent a lot of time in Luz villa.
• When dining in the apartment, it was normal for them not to venture out. When they did go to the restaurant, they would stop by Kelly's Bar, situated on Calheta Street.
• Regarding the 3rd of May, 2007, she went, together with the family, to eat at the Dolphin restaurant, which is close to Kelly's Bar. When they left the restaurant around 21H30, they headed toward Kelly's Bar. They stayed there for about 30 minutes.
• Around 22H00, they left Kelly's Bar. The group headed, on foot, for their apartment.
• Questioned, she responds that she knows the time because her brother and father decided to leave early that night. There were two reasons for this: her sister-in-law was not feeling very well and the other reason had to do with her brother, sister-in-law, nephew and son of her sister-in-law, who were catching a flight to Ireland the very next day.
• Upon leaving the bar, they turned right and headed along the road for 40/50 metres. At this point, they again turned to the right and ascended a small street that gives way to stairs. These stairs give access to Rua 25 de Abril. As it was a large group (four adults and five children) they travelled apart from each other along the street with one closer to the front and the others behind. She does not remember how they were separated.
• The deponent remembers that upon reaching the top of the stairs, she looked to her left and saw a man (1) with a child (2) in his arms, walking along the path Rua 25 de Abril. He was walking in their direction at a distance of, give or take, two metres.
• The deponent crossed to the other side of Rua 25 de Abril and began walking on the street that leads to the primary school, in the direction of their apartment complex.
• She did not see if the referenced individual with the child descended the street via the stairs or if he continued via the 25 of Abril street.
• It was the first time she saw that man. She does not remember seeing him at any time in that location.
• She has seen photographs of Madeleine McCann and thinks that it could have been her. She is about 60% certain.
• The below referenced description about the individual was taken around 22H00, when the lighting was weak.
• Questioned, states that she would probably not be able to recognise the individual or the child:
Description:
• (1) the individual was male, Caucasian, light-skinned, between 20/30 years of age, of normal complexion, normal physique, around 175/180 metres in height. At the time she saw him, she did see his face but now cannot remember any detail. She believes that he had a clean-shaven face. She does not remember any tattoos, scars or earrings. She did not look at his ears. His hair was thick-ish, light brown in colour, cut in a short style, short from behind (normal) and a bit longer on the top.
• His trousers were beige in colour, made of cotton, possibly with buttons, and without any other decoration.
• She did not see what he was wearing above his trousers as the child covered him completely from the top.
• She did not notice what shoes he was wearing.
• The individual's gait was normal. He did not look tired and walked normally while carrying the child.
• (2) the child was female . She had straight long hair to the neck. The colour was light/light brown.
• She is certain that the child was about four years old because her niece (who was in the group) is of the same age and same height.
• She did not see the child's face because she was lying against the individual's left shoulder in a vertical position against the individual. She appeared to be sleeping. Her arms were suspended along her body and were not around the individual's neck. She did not look at the child's hands and cannot state the colour of her skin. She believes she was white.
• There was nothing covering the child, a comforter/blanket or any other piece of clothing but she only saw her back.
• She was wearing light trousers, white or light-pink, that may have been pyjamas. She does not remember if they were patterned as it was dark. The material was light and could have been cotton.
• She also had a light top, with long sleeves. She did not see well because the individual had his arms around the child. She is not sure if the child's top was the same colour as her trousers but the trousers were light.
• Questioned regarding her shoes, she responds that she did not remember seeing any but cannot remember if the child had any or not.
• Urged, affirms that she has finished declaring the truth, according to her knowledge.
• And nothing more was said. Reads and finds it inconformity, ratifies and signs together with her interpreter.
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Date of Diligence: 2007.05.26
Location: This Department
Name: Aoife Smith
The witness states:
• That she comes to the process as a witness.
• Being of Irish nationality, she does not understand Portuguese in its written or oral form and is accompanied by an interpreter.
• States that she arrived on her Portugal holiday on the 30th of April, 2007. She came with her parents MARTIN and MARY Smith and her two nieces.
• They stayed in the Estrela Da Luz complex in Praia da Luz where her parents have an apartment.
• Her brother PETER was already in the apartment when they arrived as was her sister-in-law, her nephew (six years old), C*** and the son of her sister-in-law, T**** (13 years old).
• They came with the intention of holidaying for about 10 days. The return passage was booked for May 9, 2007. She is not exactly sure of the date.
• Her holidays were spent in the complex pool, in Praia da Luz and in the central commercial district. Normally, however, they spent a lot of time in Luz villa.
• When dining in the apartment, it was normal for them not to venture out. When they did go to the restaurant, they would stop by Kelly's Bar, situated on Calheta Street.
• Regarding the 3rd of May, 2007, she went, together with the family, to eat at the Dolphin restaurant, which is close to Kelly's Bar. When they left the restaurant around 21H30, they headed toward Kelly's Bar. They stayed there for about 30 minutes.
• Around 22H00, they left Kelly's Bar. The group headed, on foot, for their apartment.
• Questioned, she responds that she knows the time because her brother and father decided to leave early that night. There were two reasons for this: her sister-in-law was not feeling very well and the other reason had to do with her brother, sister-in-law, nephew and son of her sister-in-law, who were catching a flight to Ireland the very next day.
• Upon leaving the bar, they turned right and headed along the road for 40/50 metres. At this point, they again turned to the right and ascended a small street that gives way to stairs. These stairs give access to Rua 25 de Abril. As it was a large group (four adults and five children) they travelled apart from each other along the street with one closer to the front and the others behind. She does not remember how they were separated.
• The deponent remembers that upon reaching the top of the stairs, she looked to her left and saw a man (1) with a child (2) in his arms, walking along the path Rua 25 de Abril. He was walking in their direction at a distance of, give or take, two metres.
• The deponent crossed to the other side of Rua 25 de Abril and began walking on the street that leads to the primary school, in the direction of their apartment complex.
• She did not see if the referenced individual with the child descended the street via the stairs or if he continued via the 25 of Abril street.
• It was the first time she saw that man. She does not remember seeing him at any time in that location.
• She has seen photographs of Madeleine McCann and thinks that it could have been her. She is about 60% certain.
• The below referenced description about the individual was taken around 22H00, when the lighting was weak.
• Questioned, states that she would probably not be able to recognise the individual or the child:
Description:
• (1) the individual was male, Caucasian, light-skinned, between 20/30 years of age, of normal complexion, normal physique, around 175/180 metres in height. At the time she saw him, she did see his face but now cannot remember any detail. She believes that he had a clean-shaven face. She does not remember any tattoos, scars or earrings. She did not look at his ears. His hair was thick-ish, light brown in colour, cut in a short style, short from behind (normal) and a bit longer on the top.
• His trousers were beige in colour, made of cotton, possibly with buttons, and without any other decoration.
• She did not see what he was wearing above his trousers as the child covered him completely from the top.
• She did not notice what shoes he was wearing.
• The individual's gait was normal. He did not look tired and walked normally while carrying the child.
• (2) the child was female . She had straight long hair to the neck. The colour was light/light brown.
• She is certain that the child was about four years old because her niece (who was in the group) is of the same age and same height.
• She did not see the child's face because she was lying against the individual's left shoulder in a vertical position against the individual. She appeared to be sleeping. Her arms were suspended along her body and were not around the individual's neck. She did not look at the child's hands and cannot state the colour of her skin. She believes she was white.
• There was nothing covering the child, a comforter/blanket or any other piece of clothing but she only saw her back.
• She was wearing light trousers, white or light-pink, that may have been pyjamas. She does not remember if they were patterned as it was dark. The material was light and could have been cotton.
• She also had a light top, with long sleeves. She did not see well because the individual had his arms around the child. She is not sure if the child's top was the same colour as her trousers but the trousers were light.
• Questioned regarding her shoes, she responds that she did not remember seeing any but cannot remember if the child had any or not.
• Urged, affirms that she has finished declaring the truth, according to her knowledge.
• And nothing more was said. Reads and finds it inconformity, ratifies and signs together with her interpreter.
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Re: FOR NEW MEMBERS Smiths` Descriptions of Man Carrying Child + Mr Amaral's description in book
by sallypelt 14.10.13 19:12
@BBCCrimewatch ask all holidaymakers at the time to submit ALL their holiday snaps to the team of investigators for study! #McCann live onTv
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Re: FOR NEW MEMBERS Smiths` Descriptions of Man Carrying Child + Mr Amaral's description in book
by tiny 14.10.13 19:40
hope if any one does send pics in they don't get lostsallypelt wrote:@BBCCrimewatch ask all holidaymakers at the time to submit ALL their holiday snaps to the team of investigators for study! #McCann live onTv
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Re: FOR NEW MEMBERS Smiths` Descriptions of Man Carrying Child + Mr Amaral's description in book
by MRNOODLES 14.10.13 19:43
SY will give a prize for all those they showtiny wrote:hope if any one does send pics in they don't get lostsallypelt wrote:@BBCCrimewatch ask all holidaymakers at the time to submit ALL their holiday snaps to the team of investigators for study! #McCann live onTv
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Re: FOR NEW MEMBERS Smiths` Descriptions of Man Carrying Child + Mr Amaral's description in book
by tiny 14.10.13 19:44
you,ve been framed,oh how apt:biggrin:MRNOODLES wrote:SY will give a prize for all those they showtiny wrote:hope if any one does send pics in they don't get lostsallypelt wrote:@BBCCrimewatch ask all holidaymakers at the time to submit ALL their holiday snaps to the team of investigators for study! #McCann live onTv
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Re: FOR NEW MEMBERS Smiths` Descriptions of Man Carrying Child + Mr Amaral's description in book
by Sceneset 14.10.13 19:47
I'm feeling quite optimistic 
The holiday photo request is heartening news as the McCanns needed to have those those quite a while ago...
Redwoods statement that the child seen 'may, or may not have been wearing pyjamas...' at least shows that they are taking the Smith statement as a credible one ( unlike Tanners..) as Mrs Smith stated she wasn't sure if the trousers were pj's or not...
...and the man they both saw had Gerry's mannerisms...the photosfit is Gerry esque....All roads are leading to Gerry tonight. I'm actually quite impressed and wonder if this is all designed to extract a possible 11 th hour confession, or maybe it's a warning that the end of all this is coming.
The holiday photo request is heartening news as the McCanns needed to have those those quite a while ago...
Redwoods statement that the child seen 'may, or may not have been wearing pyjamas...' at least shows that they are taking the Smith statement as a credible one ( unlike Tanners..) as Mrs Smith stated she wasn't sure if the trousers were pj's or not...
...and the man they both saw had Gerry's mannerisms...the photosfit is Gerry esque....All roads are leading to Gerry tonight. I'm actually quite impressed and wonder if this is all designed to extract a possible 11 th hour confession, or maybe it's a warning that the end of all this is coming.
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Re: FOR NEW MEMBERS Smiths` Descriptions of Man Carrying Child + Mr Amaral's description in book
by Harriet94 14.10.13 20:56
I was slightly puzzled by the 2 e-fits of the same person looking different in that one looks a heavier build than the other. Then a saw a picture posted on here earlier today. It was Gerald McCann carrying Sean down the aircraft steps. His head was down and it looked to me like he had a double chin and a fatter face. Sorry I can't remember who posted the pic , but it was on this forum this afternooon. I may have imagined it but I would like to see it again if someone with tech skills could post it up.
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Re: FOR NEW MEMBERS Smiths` Descriptions of Man Carrying Child + Mr Amaral's description in book
by russiandoll 14.10.13 21:00
did not see the news on C4 but this was on twitter
Shhhh! @Wonderwoody1 [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
According to Channel 4 news those e-fits have been sitting in [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] private investigators files for 5 years+ & never passed to PT police.
please watch this.......it is very important if true.
Channel 4 news re the e fits......SITTING AROUND FOR 5 YEARS.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Shhhh!
According to Channel 4 news those e-fits have been sitting in [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] private investigators files for 5 years+ & never passed to PT police.
please watch this.......it is very important if true.
Channel 4 news re the e fits......SITTING AROUND FOR 5 YEARS.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
____________________
The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy
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Re: FOR NEW MEMBERS Smiths` Descriptions of Man Carrying Child + Mr Amaral's description in book
by JackieL 14.10.13 21:00
BUMP!!!Truthandjustice wrote:Additional statement by Martin Smith, 30 January 2008
I hereby declare that this statement is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and that I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I will be liable to prosecution if I state in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.
I would like to state that the statement I made on 26th May 2007 in Portugal is correct. The description of the individual that I saw on 3rd May 2007 carrying a child is as follows. He was average build, 5 foot 10” in height, brown hair cut short, aged 40 years approximately. Wearing beige trousers and darkish top maybe a jacket or blazer. He had a full head of hair with a tight cut. This individual was alone. I saw Gerard McCann (sic) going down the plane stairs carrying one of his children on 9th September 2007 BBC news at 10 PM, I have been shown the video clip by Sergeant Hogan which I recognise. A clip I have seen before on the Internet. In relation to the video clips of Gerard McCann and the person I saw on 3rd May 2007 when I saw the BBC news at 10 PM on 9th September 2007 something struck me that it could have been the same person. It was the way Gerard McCann turned his head down which was similar to what the individual did on 3rd May 2007 when we met him. It may have been the way he was carrying the child either. I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerard McCann that I met that night carrying a child. I am basing that on his mannerism in the way he carried the child off the plane. After seeing the BBC news at 10 PM, footage on the 9th September 2007 I contacted Leicestershire police with this information. During that time I spoke to all my family members who were with me on the night of 3rd May 2007 about this and the only one who felt the same way as me was my wife. She had seen the video clip of Gerard McCann walking down the stairs of the plane earlier that day. We did not discuss this until some days later. This statement has been read over to me and is correct.
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Re: FOR NEW MEMBERS Smiths` Descriptions of Man Carrying Child + Mr Amaral's description in book
by Guest 14.10.13 21:10
russiandoll wrote:did not see the news on C4 but this was on twitter
Shhhh! @Wonderwoody1 [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
According to Channel 4 news those e-fits have been sitting in [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] private investigators files for 5 years+ & never passed to PT police.
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Re: FOR NEW MEMBERS Smiths` Descriptions of Man Carrying Child + Mr Amaral's description in book
by Guest 14.10.13 21:12
Just about the length of time we were all screaming and kicking for them ignoring the Smiths sighting so very very glaringly!
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Re: FOR NEW MEMBERS Smiths` Descriptions of Man Carrying Child + Mr Amaral's description in book
by russiandoll 14.10.13 21:29
CHANNEL 4 NEWS ITEM RE E FITS SITTING AROUND FOR 5 YEARS AND NOT HANDED TO PORTUGUESE INVESTIGATORS
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Re: FOR NEW MEMBERS Smiths` Descriptions of Man Carrying Child + Mr Amaral's description in book
by Guest 14.10.13 21:31
Could you copy it here RD if you can please.russiandoll wrote:CHANNEL 4 NEWS ITEM RE E FITS SITTING AROUND FOR 5 YEARS AND NOT HANDED TO PORTUGUESE INVESTIGATORS
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DYNAMITE IF TRUE...SOUNDS LIKE GRANGE HAVE FOUND THEM TO ME AND THEY WERENT HANDED TO SY. IMO.
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Re: FOR NEW MEMBERS Smiths` Descriptions of Man Carrying Child + Mr Amaral's description in book
by russiandoll 14.10.13 21:34
CF ? I POSTED LINK AND HAVE CLICKED ON IT, IT OPENS AND THE ITEM IS PLAYING FOR ME. IS THERE A PROBLEM ?
____________________
The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy
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Re: FOR NEW MEMBERS Smiths` Descriptions of Man Carrying Child + Mr Amaral's description in book
by Guest 14.10.13 21:35
RD, have deleted your post on other thread, which is the same as one above, otherwise discussion about this same thing will end up on two threads. Best to keep it together here.
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Re: FOR NEW MEMBERS Smiths` Descriptions of Man Carrying Child + Mr Amaral's description in book
by Guest 14.10.13 21:43
Sorry, reading so many posts RD, thought it was an article.russiandoll wrote:CF ? I POSTED LINK AND HAVE CLICKED ON IT, IT OPENS AND THE ITEM IS PLAYING FOR ME. IS THERE A PROBLEM ?
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The Smith Sighting - for new members
by sherlock 15.10.13 13:24
What is clear that the build up to and the transmission of last nights Crimewatch programme has caused many more people to ask questions about what is really going on.
Scotland Yard announce with great bluster that “the timeline has changed” because they’ve worked it out!
Given the amount of “new” members joining the forum who may have not yet had a chance to read “all the evidence” I think it would be helpful to just highlight two chapters from Gonçalo Amaral's book: 'Maddie: The truth about the lie' to show that many years before SY got involved the “working out” of the case had already reached where SY find themselves now!!
Chapter 8
May 3rd, after 9.27pm, Dolphin restaurant,
Vila da Luz
The Smiths, from Ireland, are spending their holiday in Praia da Luz. After having dinner at the restaurant, they go to Kelly's bar, 50 metres away. They leave there at around 9.55pm to go back to their apartment in Estrela da Luz, west of the Ocean Club, 300 metres further on
They go in a northerly direction, the group spreading out; the children are never far away from the adults. There's nobody about. They climb a few steps to reach 25 de Abril street, cross it and turn left into 1 de Maio street, that runs along the west side of the Ocean Club. They haven't gone 30 metres when they come across a man walking up the middle of the road. He is carrying a child in his arms, head resting on his left shoulder. The Smiths don't see the face of the little girl, whose arms hang by her sides. She is dressed in pale-coloured, maybe pink, pyjamas; her feet are bare, she is white and she has blonde hair that covers her neck. The individual's appearance gives the impression that he is not a tourist. He is wearing cream-coloured or beige trousers, classic in style, perhaps linen or cotton. He is a white man, aged around 30 to 35, with no other distinguishing features: he is between 1.70m and 1.80m tall, is visibly in good physical condition; his brown hair is cut short, his face is tanned.
At this time, images of Robert Murat - considered to be the main suspect - begin to be circulated all over the world. After they return to Ireland, the Smiths continue to follow the case. They learn that, according to Jane Tanner's statements, Murat is definitely the man encountered on the night of the abduction. Mr Smith then gets in touch with the Irish police to relate what he saw on the night of May 3rd. He insists, categorically, that the man they came across with the little girl in his arms was not Robert Murat. He is sure of it because he knows him. With hindsight, he is utterly convinced that the little girl was definitely Madeleine. We secretly organise for the Smiths to come to Portugal. On May 26th, in the offices of the Department of Criminal Investigation in Portimão, we interview the father and his son. What they say seems credible. However, because of the dim street lighting, they say they would have a hard time formally recognising the man who was carrying the child. On the other hand, they describe very clearly how the man was holding the little girl and how he was walking. That scene is indelibly printed in their memory. After their interview, they went back to the scene, accompanied by investigators. They indicate the precise place where they came across the man.
Their coming to Portugal as well as their statements are kept secret. Within a few days, they go back to Ireland, but contact is maintained: they undertake to let us have any further details they remember. We finally have credible witness statements about that stranger who, on the night of May 3rd, was walking in the streets of Vila da Luz with a child in his arms.
Chapter 20
AN IRISH FAMILY IN A STATE OF SHOCK.
The McCann couple return to Great Britain after more than four months spent in the Algarve. It's an almost triumphant return. The media coverage is such that you'd think you were witnessing the liberation of hostages held for years in a far-off country. Gerald McCann is shown on television carrying his son, as he descends from the plane. The child's head is against Gerald's left shoulder and his arms dangling by his sides. Gerald walks across the tarmac, still holding his son closely against himself.
In Ireland, the Smiths are watching the BBC news, which is broadcasting the event. For them, it's a shock: that person, they recognise him. That way of carrying his child, that way of walking...It's the man they saw at around 10pm on May 3rd, with a little girl, who seemed to be deeply asleep, in his arms.
This image, brings back with a jolt, that of the man they encountered in the streets of Vila da Luz, on the evening of Madeleine's disappearance. It's as if the scene is repeating itself ....Mr Smith thinking he's hallucinating, sees the same report on other channels, ITV and Sky News. From that moment, he is sure: the man they came across that night was Gerald McCann. Of that there is very little doubt. Upset by the implications of this discovery, he alerts the police and waits to be called back by those in charge of the investigation.
When we receive this information, at the end of September, we think we finally have the piece that will allow us to complete the puzzle. Because of this, we may be able to reconstruct the course of events on that cold night of May 3rd in Vila da Luz. We have a better understanding of why Jane Tanner, "sent," the alleged abductor in the opposite direction to that taken by the man seen by the Smith family. Suspicion had to be diverted from Gerald who - if he was the guilty party - would have taken this route: leaving apartment 5A, the individual who was carrying the child, did not go east, towards Murat's house, but west in the direction of the beach.
We decide to get the Smiths back to the Algarve, for a formal identification of Gerry McCann - by means of televised images, certainly - direct confrontation being impossible - and possibly proceed to a reconstruction of the events of the night of May 3rd. The National Director of the Judiciary police agrees, the process is set in motion, all the details are sorted out; all that remains is to choose the hotel where they will be put up. But the Smiths were never to come back to Portugal. After my departure, the PJ were to change their minds. They asked the Irish police to proceed with interviewing the witness. That decision was to seriously delay the process since the Smiths were not interviewed until several months later. Meanwhile, rumours were to circulate and people not involved with the investigation would be made aware of the existence of this witness; someone allegedly even sought out contact with the family, without its being known to what end.
Scotland Yard announce with great bluster that “the timeline has changed” because they’ve worked it out!
Given the amount of “new” members joining the forum who may have not yet had a chance to read “all the evidence” I think it would be helpful to just highlight two chapters from Gonçalo Amaral's book: 'Maddie: The truth about the lie' to show that many years before SY got involved the “working out” of the case had already reached where SY find themselves now!!
Chapter 8
May 3rd, after 9.27pm, Dolphin restaurant,
Vila da Luz
The Smiths, from Ireland, are spending their holiday in Praia da Luz. After having dinner at the restaurant, they go to Kelly's bar, 50 metres away. They leave there at around 9.55pm to go back to their apartment in Estrela da Luz, west of the Ocean Club, 300 metres further on
They go in a northerly direction, the group spreading out; the children are never far away from the adults. There's nobody about. They climb a few steps to reach 25 de Abril street, cross it and turn left into 1 de Maio street, that runs along the west side of the Ocean Club. They haven't gone 30 metres when they come across a man walking up the middle of the road. He is carrying a child in his arms, head resting on his left shoulder. The Smiths don't see the face of the little girl, whose arms hang by her sides. She is dressed in pale-coloured, maybe pink, pyjamas; her feet are bare, she is white and she has blonde hair that covers her neck. The individual's appearance gives the impression that he is not a tourist. He is wearing cream-coloured or beige trousers, classic in style, perhaps linen or cotton. He is a white man, aged around 30 to 35, with no other distinguishing features: he is between 1.70m and 1.80m tall, is visibly in good physical condition; his brown hair is cut short, his face is tanned.
At this time, images of Robert Murat - considered to be the main suspect - begin to be circulated all over the world. After they return to Ireland, the Smiths continue to follow the case. They learn that, according to Jane Tanner's statements, Murat is definitely the man encountered on the night of the abduction. Mr Smith then gets in touch with the Irish police to relate what he saw on the night of May 3rd. He insists, categorically, that the man they came across with the little girl in his arms was not Robert Murat. He is sure of it because he knows him. With hindsight, he is utterly convinced that the little girl was definitely Madeleine. We secretly organise for the Smiths to come to Portugal. On May 26th, in the offices of the Department of Criminal Investigation in Portimão, we interview the father and his son. What they say seems credible. However, because of the dim street lighting, they say they would have a hard time formally recognising the man who was carrying the child. On the other hand, they describe very clearly how the man was holding the little girl and how he was walking. That scene is indelibly printed in their memory. After their interview, they went back to the scene, accompanied by investigators. They indicate the precise place where they came across the man.
Their coming to Portugal as well as their statements are kept secret. Within a few days, they go back to Ireland, but contact is maintained: they undertake to let us have any further details they remember. We finally have credible witness statements about that stranger who, on the night of May 3rd, was walking in the streets of Vila da Luz with a child in his arms.
Chapter 20
AN IRISH FAMILY IN A STATE OF SHOCK.
The McCann couple return to Great Britain after more than four months spent in the Algarve. It's an almost triumphant return. The media coverage is such that you'd think you were witnessing the liberation of hostages held for years in a far-off country. Gerald McCann is shown on television carrying his son, as he descends from the plane. The child's head is against Gerald's left shoulder and his arms dangling by his sides. Gerald walks across the tarmac, still holding his son closely against himself.
In Ireland, the Smiths are watching the BBC news, which is broadcasting the event. For them, it's a shock: that person, they recognise him. That way of carrying his child, that way of walking...It's the man they saw at around 10pm on May 3rd, with a little girl, who seemed to be deeply asleep, in his arms.
This image, brings back with a jolt, that of the man they encountered in the streets of Vila da Luz, on the evening of Madeleine's disappearance. It's as if the scene is repeating itself ....Mr Smith thinking he's hallucinating, sees the same report on other channels, ITV and Sky News. From that moment, he is sure: the man they came across that night was Gerald McCann. Of that there is very little doubt. Upset by the implications of this discovery, he alerts the police and waits to be called back by those in charge of the investigation.
When we receive this information, at the end of September, we think we finally have the piece that will allow us to complete the puzzle. Because of this, we may be able to reconstruct the course of events on that cold night of May 3rd in Vila da Luz. We have a better understanding of why Jane Tanner, "sent," the alleged abductor in the opposite direction to that taken by the man seen by the Smith family. Suspicion had to be diverted from Gerald who - if he was the guilty party - would have taken this route: leaving apartment 5A, the individual who was carrying the child, did not go east, towards Murat's house, but west in the direction of the beach.
We decide to get the Smiths back to the Algarve, for a formal identification of Gerry McCann - by means of televised images, certainly - direct confrontation being impossible - and possibly proceed to a reconstruction of the events of the night of May 3rd. The National Director of the Judiciary police agrees, the process is set in motion, all the details are sorted out; all that remains is to choose the hotel where they will be put up. But the Smiths were never to come back to Portugal. After my departure, the PJ were to change their minds. They asked the Irish police to proceed with interviewing the witness. That decision was to seriously delay the process since the Smiths were not interviewed until several months later. Meanwhile, rumours were to circulate and people not involved with the investigation would be made aware of the existence of this witness; someone allegedly even sought out contact with the family, without its being known to what end.
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Re: FOR NEW MEMBERS Smiths` Descriptions of Man Carrying Child + Mr Amaral's description in book
by Guest 15.10.13 13:28
Sherlock, woofer started a thread yesterday on this so have merged with that. Also there is the Pat Brown topic on the Smith sighting on this Latest news forum.
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Re: FOR NEW MEMBERS Smiths` Descriptions of Man Carrying Child + Mr Amaral's description in book
by MRNOODLES 15.10.13 13:50
Very significant if true.
Maddie seen on an elephant in India
Maddie seen riding piggy back in Africa
Maddie seen in Disney Land
Etc Etc
Yet an important sighting on the doorstep gets buried.
Maddie seen on an elephant in India
Maddie seen riding piggy back in Africa
Maddie seen in Disney Land
Etc Etc
Yet an important sighting on the doorstep gets buried.
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Re: FOR NEW MEMBERS Smiths` Descriptions of Man Carrying Child + Mr Amaral's description in book
by dontbelieveaword 15.10.13 13:53
Does Gerry have an alibi for when he is meant to be seen (the smith sighting)? Or hasn't it been established where he was?
I don't know what to think - part of me thinks that SY must be blind not to see what is under their noses and part of me thinks that surely justice should prevail and no matter WHO the parents are if they have anything to do with her disappearance then they should be brought to justice.
I don't know what to think - part of me thinks that SY must be blind not to see what is under their noses and part of me thinks that surely justice should prevail and no matter WHO the parents are if they have anything to do with her disappearance then they should be brought to justice.
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Re: FOR NEW MEMBERS Smiths` Descriptions of Man Carrying Child + Mr Amaral's description in book
by Nereid 16.10.13 12:18
I hope SY got their hands on all the holiday snaps that were sent to CEOPS when they created this website on 23 May 2007 asking holiday makers to upload their Praia da Luz photographs.sallypelt wrote:@BBCCrimewatch ask all holidaymakers at the time to submit ALL their holiday snaps to the team of investigators for study! #McCann live onTv
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Beige Trousers on bed?
by bristow 16.10.13 12:45
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Beige trousers with buttons on Gerry
by PeterMac 16.10.13 12:55
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Smith sighting - for information
by PeterMac 16.10.13 13:02
People are talking about distances and time to walk from the apartment to the Smith sighting.
This is from maps.google[img][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.][/img]
This is from maps.google[img][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.][/img]
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Re: FOR NEW MEMBERS Smiths` Descriptions of Man Carrying Child + Mr Amaral's description in book
by ultimaThule 16.10.13 13:03
I believe it's known in the trade as 'bang to rights' 
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Re: FOR NEW MEMBERS Smiths` Descriptions of Man Carrying Child + Mr Amaral's description in book
by Guest 16.10.13 13:23
Have put this post of the new thread you started in here PeterMacPeterMac wrote:People are talking about distances and time to walk from the apartment to the Smith sighting.
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Re: FOR NEW MEMBERS Smiths` Descriptions of Man Carrying Child + Mr Amaral's description in book
by Daisy 16.10.13 13:41
Thanks for posting RD.russiandoll wrote:did not see the news on C4 but this was on twitter
Shhhh! @Wonderwoody1 [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
According to Channel 4 news those e-fits have been sitting in [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] private investigators files for 5 years+ & never passed to PT police.
please watch this.......it is very important if true.
Channel 4 news re the e fits......SITTING AROUND FOR 5 YEARS.
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Someone has some very uncomfortable questions to answer. How the heck are they going to explain this one away?
Credit to Joana Morais site
"The McCanns contacted the Irish Smith family, which says they saw Gerry, to a certainty of 60 to 80 percent, carrying a little girl towards the beach, on the evening when Maddie disappeared. But the contact was apparently made with the purpose of drawing a photofit of the alleged abductor, according to what the Irishman told the police in his country.
In the Maddie case process, this contact was reportedly made by Brian Kennedy, the Scottish millionaire who financially helped the McCanns in the search for their daughter. The Irish officer who questions M. Smith, in Dublin, writes in his communication to the Portuguese police that Smith refused to participate in the making of the photofit and that he did not tell the story of what he saw to the McCanns’ friend."
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Smith sighting ..
by Searcher 17.10.13 12:23
[Admin pse merge - I can't find the thread with PeterMac and TB's posts this morning.] Just wanted to add a thought or two. PM/TB were discussing how unlikely it could be for someone to carry child through streets; a car or other means would be found.
That is very sensible, but I put myself in the shoes of that person. I am in a very quiet resort, out of season, there is hardly anyone about, it is late, dark. There is no media frenzy, nothing to answer; it may look surprisingly "safe" to be on the streets. Just my thought but - while in the current context it seems entirely strange - in circumstances at the time it could have felt a reasonable option. And if there was no car available, perhaps the only option.
That is very sensible, but I put myself in the shoes of that person. I am in a very quiet resort, out of season, there is hardly anyone about, it is late, dark. There is no media frenzy, nothing to answer; it may look surprisingly "safe" to be on the streets. Just my thought but - while in the current context it seems entirely strange - in circumstances at the time it could have felt a reasonable option. And if there was no car available, perhaps the only option.
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Similar topics» SMITHMAN 12: Can anyone who still believes that the Smiths saw Gerry McCann carrying Madeleine satisfactorily answer ANY of these 60 Questions ?
» SMITHMAN 12: Can anyone who still believes that the Smiths saw Gerry McCann carrying Madeleine satisfactorily answer ANY of these 60 Questions ?
» SMITHMAN 10: Is this absolute, 100% proof that the Smiths did not see Gerry McCann carrying away Madeleine at around 10pm on Thursday, 3 May, 2007?
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» SMITHMAN 12: Can anyone who still believes that the Smiths saw Gerry McCann carrying Madeleine satisfactorily answer ANY of these 60 Questions ?
» SMITHMAN 10: Is this absolute, 100% proof that the Smiths did not see Gerry McCann carrying away Madeleine at around 10pm on Thursday, 3 May, 2007?
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» NOTW online to publish Goncalo Amarals book
The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ :: British Police / Government Interference :: Smithman: Crimewatch Reconstruction and the appeal for new info / suspects
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