Re: Alex Woolfall 'knows': 'The Last Photo', and other photos of Madeleine in Praia da Luz

by Guest 30.12.13 7:29

Woofer wrote:E**a O`Brien born July 2003 Leicester

L**y Payne born September 2004 Leicester

Thanks Woofer, I've snipped this from JT's first statement:

She has been on holiday in Portugal since last Saturday, 28th April, staying at the OC resort in P da L, Lagos, together with her partner (Russell O'Brien), their two children and three couples (Gerald McCann and Kate Healy, Matthew Oldfield and Rachel Mampilly and David and Fiona Payne. The group also included Fiona Payne's mother, Diane Webster.

She was accompanied by her two children, E**a O'Brien aged three and E**e O'Brien aged one.

The other couples also brought their children, G***e Oldfield aged one (the daughter of Rachel Mampilly and Matthew Oldfield), L*** Payne aged two and S******* Payne, aged 11 months (daughters of David and Fiona Payne) and the twins Amelie and Sean McCann aged two and Madeleine McCann who would be four in two weeks time (children of Kate and Gerry McCann).

So from the above L*** Payne age two and wasn't she in the Jellyfish Creche with the twins? E**a O'Brien age three in the Lobster Creche with Madeleine?

by Guest 30.12.13 12:28

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Madeleine

Tend to agree NFWTD that the girl with the sunglasses on is E**a O'Brien. According to FP's first statement:

Around 12H30/13H00 they would go to get the children from the crêche and would have lunch in the apartment, at times with other children.

This could be where the photo of E**a was taken?

More photo's here

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Made me crinch to see DP with children, imo there is a child who is so like Madeleine she could be her twin!?

by **tigger** 30.12.13 12:54

Cherry Blossom wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Madeleine

Tend to agree NFWTD that the girl with the sunglasses on is E**a O'Brien. According to FP's first statement:

Around 12H30/13H00 they would go to get the children from the crêche and would have lunch in the apartment, at times with other children.

This could be where the photo of E**a was taken?

More photo's here

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Made me crinch to see DP with children, imo there is a child who is so like Madeleine she could be her twin!?

This girl is a dead ringer for the girl in the photo coming out of the playhouse imo. pink t shirt too here. Teeth are alsomore like hers. Hair length fits.

by jeanmonroe 30.12.13 13:30

....there is another girl, Emily Jane McCann, born in Mendip, Somerset. Her birth was registered in January 2003 and her mother's maiden name is also Healy.
____________________________________________________

WHERE is the 10 years old Emily Jane McCann right now?

by Guest 30.12.13 14:00

jeanmonroe wrote:....there is another girl, Emily Jane McCann, born in Mendip, Somerset. Her birth was registered in January 2003 and her mother's maiden name is also Healy.
____________________________________________________

WHERE is the 10 years old Emily Jane McCann right now?

Could be with a couple of the Tapas 7!!

tigger, do you mean this one, she's wearing a white T shirt

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by Rasputin 30.12.13 14:15

Just as a matter of interest has anyone ever done a reverse google image search on any of the available photo's ?, another decent image look-up tool is ..tinyeye, these can show you where else an image has been posted ...sometimes leading to other images.

by Guest 30.12.13 15:36

jeanmonroe wrote:....there is another girl, Emily Jane McCann, born in Mendip, Somerset. Her birth was registered in January 2003 and her mother's maiden name is also Healy.
____________________________________________________

WHERE is the 10 years old Emily Jane McCann right now?

You can try Googling Emily Jane McCann but I wouldn't want to drag another innocent party into this, and investigating other people's children isn't exactly something I'm comfortable with.

It's boiling down to one inevitable question - is the girl in the "last" photo actually MBM?

by Guest 30.12.13 16:42

I think it was Lance who said recently that this family has been checked out and found to have no connection to their infamous namesakes.

I say yes to that last question but I just don't think that the photo was taken when it was claimed to be.

by suep 30.12.13 19:11

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
jeanmonroe wrote:....there is another girl, Emily Jane McCann, born in Mendip, Somerset. Her birth was registered in January 2003 and her mother's maiden name is also Healy.
____________________________________________________

WHERE is the 10 years old Emily Jane McCann right now?

You can try Googling Emily Jane McCann but I wouldn't want to drag another innocent party into this, and investigating other people's children isn't exactly something I'm comfortable with.

It's boiling down to one inevitable question - is the girl in the "last" photo actually MBM?

I'm not sure any more which photos are Madeleine.The whole thing makes me feel very uneasy. I just looked on Google images for photos of her and the one thing that stood out was the number of pictures, even the ones of a very young Madeleine, where she seems to have her eyes made up with expertly applied mascara...am I imagining this? I hope so. No matter how hard I try I can't think of one good reason why a parent would want to use make up on a toddler...

by Guest 30.12.13 19:22

suep wrote:

I'm not sure any more which photos are Madeleine.The whole thing makes me feel very uneasy. I just looked on Google images for photos of her and the one thing that stood out was the number of pictures, even the ones of a very young Madeleine, where she seems to have her eyes made up with expertly applied mascara...am I imagining this? I hope so. No matter how hard I try I can't think of one good reason why a parent would want to use make up on a toddler...

My daughter was born looking like she was equipped with false eyelashes, and still does. She reminds me of the pink hippopotamus off Rainbow. Even I find it a bit unsettling now and then, and I'm her father!

by suep 30.12.13 20:26

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
suep wrote:

I'm not sure any more which photos are Madeleine.The whole thing makes me feel very uneasy. I just looked on Google images for photos of her and the one thing that stood out was the number of pictures, even the ones of a very young Madeleine, where she seems to have her eyes made up with expertly applied mascara...am I imagining this? I hope so. No matter how hard I try I can't think of one good reason why a parent would want to use make up on a toddler...

My daughter was born looking like she was equipped with false eyelashes, and still does. She reminds me of the pink hippopotamus off Rainbow. Even I find it a bit unsettling now and then, and I'm her father!

Well that makes me feel a bit better, Clay, thanks. There's so much speculation about this case regarding the paedophilia angle you find yourself looking for any small thing that's suspicious. Its so easy to lose track of reality. And its hard not to get emotionally involved when its an innocent child's life that's been so immensely impacted.

by canada12 30.12.13 20:28

I tend to agree with suep. There's a difference between having naturally thick and dark eyelashes, and having eyes in photos that look like they've been outlined in black eyeliner. Madeleine did not have naturally thick and dark eyelashes, from what I can see. Check out her eyes in the "school" photo with the twins. And then look at the photo of her in the red sundress, holding the Doctor Who sonic screwdriver.

Edited to find a better example of Madeleine's eyes, wide open.
See the photos available on this link here:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by Guest 30.12.13 20:31

Suep, I don't think you're imagining the make-up in the photos. What struck me too is that it looks as though an adult has applied it, not a child.

by **tigger** 30.12.13 20:55

Cherry Blossom wrote:
jeanmonroe wrote:....there is another girl, Emily Jane McCann, born in Mendip, Somerset. Her birth was registered in January 2003 and her mother's maiden name is also Healy.
____________________________________________________

WHERE is the 10 years old Emily Jane McCann right now?

Could be with a couple of the Tapas 7!!

tigger, do you mean this one, she's wearing a white T shirt

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Thanks, yes I do. Confident smile, teeth closer together - put those two together I would think it's the same girll. I only said pink because pink and Maddie were very much promoted as being associated.

by Guest 30.12.13 21:09

canada12 wrote:I tend to agree with suep. There's a difference between having naturally thick and dark eyelashes, and having eyes in photos that look like they've been outlined in black eyeliner. Madeleine did not have naturally thick and dark eyelashes, from what I can see. Check out her eyes in the "school" photo with the twins. And then look at the photo of her in the red sundress, holding the Doctor Who sonic screwdriver.

Edited to find a better example of Madeleine's eyes, wide open.
See the photos available on this link here:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

A lot of their photos have this certain quality, I can't find the words to describe it, but they look somehow aged. Bear in mind that ALL photos of Maddie would have been taken in the 21st century, many (the first birthday cake one is a prime example) have a weird kind of 70's vibe about them. I can't explain it any better than that.

by Guest 30.12.13 21:10

tigger wrote:
Thanks, yes I do. Confident smile, teeth closer together - put those two together I would think it's the same girll. I only said pink because pink and Maddie were very much promoted as being associated.

I'm going to have to be unkindly blunt here, but I've always though that girl looks more "normal" than Maddie. Sorry.

by juliet 30.12.13 21:25

I still don't know who is the little girl being clutched by Payne in those balcony pix. Some say it is the O'Brien child but is it definitely? Payne is really holding her hard....poor kid seems unhappy about it.

by juliet 30.12.13 22:14

Do people think the child was made up or that the photos were enhanced? Either way it is very troubling. And again something ignored by the grovellng see no evil media.

by **tigger** 31.12.13 5:45

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
tigger wrote:
Thanks, yes I do. Confident smile, teeth closer together - put those two together I would think it's the same girll. I only said pink because pink and Maddie were very much promoted as being associated.

I'm going to have to be unkindly blunt here, but I've always though that girl looks more "normal" than Maddie. Sorry.

I agree, poor little thing rarely looks confident, always insecure. Which is why the very blonde one of the Everton shirts ( available very quickly - we're back to football here, Celtic colours for the wristbands, Everton shirt photos for Liverpool. )isn't Maddie either. Hmm all those closed smiles - so unnatural for a toddler. Teeth a give awy?
Imo the strategy was to mix in similar children - confusion is good..

by suep 31.12.13 6:52

canada12 wrote:I tend to agree with suep. There's a difference between having naturally thick and dark eyelashes, and having eyes in photos that look like they've been outlined in black eyeliner. Madeleine did not have naturally thick and dark eyelashes, from what I can see. Check out her eyes in the "school" photo with the twins. And then look at the photo of her in the red sundress, holding the Doctor Who sonic screwdriver.

Edited to find a better example of Madeleine's eyes, wide open.
See the photos available on this link here:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Thanks for the link, canada. The photos on there that always freak me out a lot are the ones where her hair is crimped. She looks much much older and 'streetwise' than a three year old and whenever I see them the unwelcome phrase 'tarted up' comes to mind. I cannot imagine why anyone would want to make up their little girl to look like that.There's also something about the way Madeleine poses for many of the photos I've seen that bothers me...as if she's learned what expressions please the photographer, a bit like a professional glamour model does...I can't quite put my finger on exactly what I mean.

Juliet, I don't have a link to the photo you mentioned to hand but I know the one you mean. I don't know whose child David Payne is clutching but she doesn't look comfortable. The odd thing is that it seems to be only her left leg that's visible but there's no sign of her other leg and I can't work out where it could be. Payne seems to be grasping her really tightly and she seems to be pushing at his arm as if to get out of his grasp.

by Guest 31.12.13 7:51

tigger wrote:
Clay Regazzoni wrote:
tigger wrote:
Thanks, yes I do. Confident smile, teeth closer together - put those two together I would think it's the same girll. I only said pink because pink and Maddie were very much promoted as being associated.

I'm going to have to be unkindly blunt here, but I've always though that girl looks more "normal" than Maddie. Sorry.

I agree, poor little thing rarely looks confident, always insecure. Which is why the very blonde one of the Everton shirts ( available very quickly - we're back to football here, Celtic colours for the wristbands, Everton shirt photos for Liverpool. )isn't Maddie either. Hmm all those closed smiles - so unnatural for a toddler. Teeth a give awy?
Imo the strategy was to mix in similar children - confusion is good..

Certainly agree with mix in similar children, who is the real Madeliene? I always see a different one in each photo, it's as if they were already trying to turn her into the perfect child why, is it because they knew she wasn't perfect. I don't believe there was a bond between Madeliene and her parents and try has she may the love just wasn't there for her, Maddy will have picked up on these feelings of rejection poor little soul, this is why to me she never looked happy.

Wonder how long MC's were fans of Everton?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Top pic, is that Maddy wearing an Everton T shirt?

by canada12 31.12.13 7:54

suep wrote:
canada12 wrote:I tend to agree with suep. There's a difference between having naturally thick and dark eyelashes, and having eyes in photos that look like they've been outlined in black eyeliner. Madeleine did not have naturally thick and dark eyelashes, from what I can see. Check out her eyes in the "school" photo with the twins. And then look at the photo of her in the red sundress, holding the Doctor Who sonic screwdriver.

Edited to find a better example of Madeleine's eyes, wide open.
See the photos available on this link here:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Thanks for the link, canada. The photos on there that always freak me out a lot are the ones where her hair is crimped. She looks much much older and 'streetwise' than a three year old and whenever I see them the unwelcome phrase 'tarted up' comes to mind. I cannot imagine why anyone would want to make up their little girl to look like that.There's also something about the way Madeleine poses for many of the photos I've seen that bothers me...as if she's learned what expressions please the photographer, a bit like a professional glamour model does...I can't quite put my finger on exactly what I mean.

Juliet, I don't have a link to the photo you mentioned to hand but I know the one you mean. I don't know whose child David Payne is clutching but she doesn't look comfortable. The odd thing is that it seems to be only her left leg that's visible but there's no sign of her other leg and I can't work out where it could be. Payne seems to be grasping her really tightly and she seems to be pushing at his arm as if to get out of his grasp.

For a lot of the posed photos, I think whoever was taking the picture coached her on where to put her hand and how to smile. All of the photos where Madeleine's hand is up to her head, as if moving her hair away from her face, seem artificial and not a natural pose at all. More an adult pose than a spontaneous child-like gesture.

by **tigger** 31.12.13 7:59

I think it's always a good idea to copy the pose yourself, such as the uncomfortable one at the pool, the one on the floor and the tennis photo. One can learn a lot from it.

Although I agree that some children may have thick dark lashes, that still would not explain the absence of flesh colour on the edges of the eyelids - eyelids are fairly thick 1 to 1.5 mm and picked out in black in many of M's photos.
In TV and film, the edges are often picked out in whie liner to make actors' eyes look bigger.
I would need to look at a lot of children's photos but I'd expect eyebrows to be closer to the colour of the eyelashes than is the case with M. As I'm 100% sure that she is wearing a wig in many photographs this all fits the prettying up of a not so beautiful little girl.

Beautiful hair distracts from facial features, ( think of Goldie Hawn who uses her hair to hide her age very successfully) and hides imperfections.

The iconic photo too, shows - imo - mascara and eyeliner. The lashes are unnaturally spiky.

Yes, the crimped hair photo makes her look much older, The one where she is wearing a scarf is another, really freaks me out that one. She looks like a mini-woman.

Someone mentioned the red dress, (kitchen and garden photos) - something very wrong with those poses.

My younger sister had long dark eyelashes but dark eyebrows to go with it when she was a baby.

Eta: canada12. Totally agree. Btw. That high blonde one of Everton would not look out of place behind a bar.

by canada12 31.12.13 8:36

tigger wrote:I think it's always a good idea to copy the pose yourself, such as the uncomfortable one at the pool, the one on the floor and the tennis photo. One can learn a lot from it.

Although I agree that some children may have thick dark lashes, that still would not explain the absence of flesh colour on the edges of the eyelids - eyelids are fairly thick 1 to 1.5 mm and picked out in black in many of M's photos.
In TV and film, the edges are often picked out in whie liner to make actors' eyes look bigger.
I would need to look at a lot of children's photos but I'd expect eyebrows to be closer to the colour of the eyelashes than is the case with M. As I'm 100% sure that she is wearing a wig in many photographs this all fits the prettying up of a not so beautiful little girl.

Beautiful hair distracts from facial features, ( think of Goldie Hawn who uses her hair to hide her age very successfully) and hides imperfections.

The iconic photo too, shows - imo - mascara and eyeliner. The lashes are unnaturally spiky.

Yes, the crimped hair photo makes her look much older, The one where she is wearing a scarf is another, really freaks me out that one. She looks like a mini-woman.

Someone mentioned the red dress, (kitchen and garden photos) - something very wrong with those poses.

My younger sister had long dark eyelashes but dark eyebrows to go with it when she was a baby.

Eta: canada12. Totally agree. Btw. That high blonde one of Everton would not look out of place behind a bar.

Here's a closeup from one of the red dress / kitchen photos... definitely black eyeliner... and it does look like a wig if you download the photo and resize it. No distinct hair parting. Although she could have very thick hair, so I fully expect to be challenged on this observation.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by Guest 31.12.13 8:37

tigger wrote:

I agree, poor little thing rarely looks confident, always insecure. Which is why the very blonde one of the Everton shirts ( available very quickly - we're back to football here, Celtic colours for the wristbands, Everton shirt photos for Liverpool. )isn't Maddie either.

Football shirt to create resonance with Soham murders? Clarence Mitchell's dastardly influence?

by suep 31.12.13 8:49

That scarf photo has the same effect on me, tigger. This is a toddler we're looking at yet she's expertly made up, she even has eyeliner and lipstick on. How on earth do you get a toddler to co-operate long enough to apply all that make up so perfectly? She looks almost terrified in that shot to me. Her 'smile' is forced and her pupils are huge.My heart goes out to her.

by Guest 31.12.13 8:50

canada12 wrote:

Here's a closeup from one of the red dress / kitchen photos... definitely black eyeliner... and it does look like a wig if you download the photo and resize it. No distinct hair parting. Although she could have very thick hair, so I fully expect to be challenged on this observation.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I've speculated about a wig before Tigger. I know what you mean in the above, you'd expect to see some scalp showing through? This is an odd adjective to use about a child but it was the one that came to me - her hair often looks "expensively" styled to me, reflection of the parent's wishes perhaps?

I just had another thought on the playhouse photo posted above too - the photographer (or the camera at least) must have been very low down. I think that's one of the reasons it "jars" a bit.

by MrsC 31.12.13 10:31

canada12 wrote:
Here's a closeup from one of the red dress / kitchen photos... definitely black eyeliner... and it does look like a wig if you download the photo and resize it. No distinct hair parting. Although she could have very thick hair, so I fully expect to be challenged on this observation.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I agree that her eyes look very odd in this photo - she does appear to be wearing eyeliner. But I would bet my last dollar on that being her own hair and not a wig - it looks 100% natural to me and not thick at all. Not everybody has a distinct parting, myself included.

As a hair stylist of many years I think that most wigs are very identifiable (if you know hair) - only the very, very expensive human hair tailor made wigs stand a chance of not being noticed.

by Guest 31.12.13 10:45

The talk of long eyelashes reminds me that my son was blessed (or not) with those and as a result he was sometimes thought to be a girl, which didn't always please him.

One day he and I got chatting to a woman with a baby in a pram. Al was asking all sorts of questions about the baby, finishing with was it a boy or a girl because you couldn't tell. The woman replied - at least nobody will ever mistake you for a boy.

There was a moment's silence before I said - but he IS a boy. The woman was so embarrassed she didn't know where to look and my son was very miffed!

Back on topic - please excuse an old dear's ramblings - has anyone here taken photos of their children professionally made up? It seems very odd to me.

by Guest 31.12.13 11:13

love the story NFWTD, why anyone would want to professionally make up their child and take photo's for the public domain or for the family album is beyond me,

Latest topics