Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

by noddy100 20.05.13 11:14

I think this is giving out a message to teh tapas. The only way they could know they were british for sure is if they had spoken to them or seen them before with the McCanns

by sami 20.05.13 11:17

MJC wrote:This is one the reasons why I place no reliance on the Express and Star reports - the vague language - examples from the Express article below:

***

trying to find

middle-aged

said to have

It is believed they

A source said

Apparently

a lot of people of interest

people who could be properly explored further

understands that

I can see what you are saying. What is its purpose in being printed and who is behind it ?

This is very damaging to the McCanns and for me blows the responsible parenting claim right out of water. No grey area any longer. Their children were alone, in an un-locked apartment, for sufficient time to become hysterical, long enough for two people to stand outside, listen, decide the crying will not stop and there is nobody there, enter the apartment, soothe, and leave. Still no parent arrived.

Now Scotland Yard, my question is, if that is not neglect, what is ? On this basis why are the parents not being questioned about this neglect right now?

by Guest 20.05.13 11:19

Johanna‏@UnterdenTeppich[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]Unterdenteppichgekehrt: The mysterious couple [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] …

by sheila.edwards 20.05.13 11:21

tappas nine had all been drinking to,No phones no watches ! so god knows what happened.In files it states:; McCanns had been advised to get sitters for safety of children as recent bout of break ins etc. but they ignored the advice from mark warner manager.?why would you do that.Id like to see what the 159 credible lines of enquiry where ! now down to 20 then 8. They never did do a lie detector test or proper helped police/reconstruction.Cant they all be made to, to help find a child one would think they would all be falling over themselves to do anything to help !something stinks and its not seabass, nappies, or smelly trainers. Heres hoping this keeps them off wee lorraines sofa answering set questions only.They all need interviews with someone like david frost or Richard and judy where theres no hiding from questions . why would you want to anyway id just want my child back

by Pershing36 20.05.13 11:22

sami wrote:

Now Scotland Yard, my question is, if that is not neglect, what is ? On this basis why are the parents not being questioned about this neglect right now?

It is not neglect, sounds like complete and utter bull to me. If this is to be believed they may as well tear up all the other statements as it goes against everything else apparently seen that night.

What did they do, jemmy the shutters and quickly repair them afterwards?

by Guest 20.05.13 11:27

aiyoyo wrote:
"...middle-aged British couple said to have entered the night before Madeleine disappeared after hearing crying...The middle-aged couple were spotted by two witnesses with an apartment overlooking the garden of 5a where Madeleine was staying in May 2007"

Eh.....unless "BRITISH" is stamped on the couple's forehead in neon light, you have to wonder how the witnesses from apt two levels away made out their nationality in pitch dark condition.
Made out their age from their shilouette - maybe.
Made out their nationality - impossible, unless the couple were known to the witnesses.

One wonders how the alleged couple entering knew the crying child was alone and the apt unlocked.
It would have been more normal for strangers, on hearing incessant crying of a child, to knock on the door to alert the parents in case the parents were fast asleep and snoring, or to alert the reception.

To have entered would suggest the couple had pre-knowledge the apt was unlocked and the child was left unattended. Even with pre-knowledge it would be very unusual for strangers to gatecrash into the apt, more normal to alert reception instead. Also, if something sinister was going on, why did they not just take Maddie away on this night, instead of returning the following night when patrol was stepped up.

There is no co-relation between JT's swarthy long hair man and this pair of witnesses account of the middle-age BRITS couple.

A series of excellent points, aiyoyo.

I am intrigued by the way the Express links this crying on 2/3 May to the account of the crying by Pamela Fenn, which clearly refers to 1/2 May. The Express editor and journos are not stupid, they know very well that Pamela Fenn said Tues 1 May. So why did the Express say in their article that Pamela Fenn was referring to 2 May? I would put forward the suggestion that this was NOT a mistake by the Express but WAS DONE DELIBERATELY.

The Express says the crying was 'for about an hour'. Pamela Fenn said 75 minutes.

Here's another question.

The crying was presumably loud enough for the Moyes/mystery couple to hear.

It was loud enough for Pamela Fenn not only to hear but to ring someone else in the village and tell them about it.

It was obviously loud enough (if the Moyes/mystery couple are telling the truth) for the other mystery British couple to hear the crying and go and soothe Madeleine (though how the Moyes/mystery couple know it was Madeleine and not Sean or Amelie crying, I don't know).

So why didn't the occupants of the 4 blocks all said to have a great view of G5A also hear a child crying for 75 minutes, and why didn't any of them do anything about it?

Further, Mrs Fenn said the crying started at 10.30pm and went on to 11.45pm, during which time it was VERY DARK.

So how did the Moyes/mystery couple divine at this time of night that this was a middle-aged British couple who went to soothe Madeleine?

I suggest these as possibilities:

* They both had 'middle-aged spread'
* The bloke was bald and his pate shone up in what little lighting there was, and
* One or both of them was wearing an illuminated sign saying: 'I am British".

No-one has persuaded me yet that this story is anything but sheer fabrication

'

by **PeterMac** 20.05.13 11:27

Pershing36 wrote:
What did they do, jemmy the shutters and quickly repair them afterwards?

Oh, yes we forgot about that. They have to do that as well within the one minute and 20 seconds !

by Guest 20.05.13 11:30

Pershing36 wrote:

It is not neglect,

Agreed

sounds like complete and utter bull to me.

Agreed

If this is to be believed they may as well tear up all the other statements as it goes against everything else apparently seen that night.

What did they do, jemmy the shutters and quickly repair them afterwards?

Pershing 36, the mystery couple seeing the mystery couple is said to have occurred on Weds 2 May

by sami 20.05.13 11:35

MJC wrote:
Pershing36 wrote:

It is not neglect,

Agreed

sounds like complete and utter bull to me.

Agreed

If this is to be believed they may as well tear up all the other statements as it goes against everything else apparently seen that night.

What did they do, jemmy the shutters and quickly repair them afterwards?

Pershing 36, the mystery couple seeing the mystery couple is said to have occurred on Weds 2 May

We are being led to believe that this is the road Scotland Yard are following, looking for these people. That being the case, they should be calling it neglect, in my opinion.

It is only not neglect because it is not true.

So, who has ownership of this story ? If the pink one is spinning it, it is very damaging. If it is not him, who is it

by bobbin 20.05.13 11:35

sami wrote:
MJC wrote:This is one the reasons why I place no reliance on the Express and Star reports - the vague language - examples from the Express article below:

***

trying to find

middle-aged

said to have

It is believed they

A source said

Apparently

a lot of people of interest

people who could be properly explored further

understands that

I can see what you are saying. What is its purpose in being printed and who is behind it ?

This is very damaging to the McCanns and for me blows the responsible parenting claim right out of water. No grey area any longer. Their children were alone, in an un-locked apartment, for sufficient time to become hysterical, long enough for two people to stand outside, listen, decide the crying will not stop and there is nobody there, enter the apartment, soothe, and leave. Still no parent arrived.

Now Scotland Yard, my question is, if that is not neglect, what is ? On this basis why are the parents not being questioned about this neglect right now?

But is 'neglect' better than 'other' ?
What if the couple were, say, like the ?eastern european? couple, who were caught taking photos on the beach, taking photos of Madeleine? What if someone in on it, knowing the door was left open each night, (as stated by Gerald McCann) accompanied visitors each night to photograph Madeleine. Didn't Amaral say something about a lot of visitors to 5A? What if Madeleine had got hurt during the time that her parents were not in attendance? Who says the 'soothing' a crying child was actually 'soothing' a crying child.
For the attention of CRUCK, these are of course just some of the questions that one must be able to eliminate in order to find out what happened to Madeleine. We all want to leave no stone unturned in the search for the truth of where and how Madeleine disappeared, don't we, and if her parents themselves claim that a paedophile ring have taken her ("they have taken her", shouted by Kate McCann) then these newly found leads are where the questioning needs to start.

by Woofer 20.05.13 11:46

If SY have done their job properly they would have liaised with Goncalo who was the co-ordinator of the case. If they haven`t done this, it shows extreme incompetence on their part.

We don`t hear much from Joana Morais at the moment - she is usually the one with all the info from the Portuguese angle. I wonder if she`s in contact with GA.

by View-from-Ireland 20.05.13 11:54

Over the past 24 hours my instincts have been telling me that this case has moved a step closer to being resolved.

Reading between the lines, the information which is being released is being designed to 'flush out' the Tapas 9. They are backing that group into a corner.

If the 'new evidence' from 9.15pm doesn't result in an interrogation of Jane Tanner, Wilkins and Gerry McCann then we know there is something/somebody being protected as this contradiction simply cannot be ignored if this new information is what the police are banking on.

In the reports we are reading, a lot of ambiguous language is being used and this indicates to me that the police know that persons in the Tapas group had called on Maddie earlier in the week and that something terrible may have happened at that point.

-'British couple'

-'Middle-aged'

-'Soothed Maddie'

-'Known to the McCanns'

by ShuBob 20.05.13 11:56

View-from-Ireland wrote:Over the past 24 hours my instincts have been telling me that this case has moved a step closer to being resolved.

Reading between the lines, the information which is being released is being designed to 'flush out' the Tapas 9. They are backing that group into a corner.

If the 'new evidence' from 9.15pm doesn't result in an interrogation of Jane Tanner, Wilkins and Gerry McCann then we know there is something/somebody being protected as this contradiction simply cannot be ignored if this new information is what the police are banking on.

In the reports we are reading, a lot of ambiguous language is being used and this indicates to me that the police know that persons in the Tapas group had called on Maddie earlier in the week and that something terrible may have happened at that point.

-'British couple'

-'Middle-aged'

-'Soothed Maddie'

-'Known to the McCanns'

I hear you loud and clear [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by ShuBob 20.05.13 12:00

sami wrote:SNIP

We are being led to believe that this is the road Scotland Yard are following, looking for these people. That being the case, they should be calling it neglect, in my opinion.

It is only not neglect because it is not true.

So, who has ownership of this story ? If the pink one is spinning it, it is very damaging. If it is not him, who is it

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the McCanns will rue the day they picked on the Express Group when all the other nationals were doing the exact same thing as them.

by sheila.edwards 20.05.13 12:15

the mccanns themselves would know if it was couple they had asked to check their children that night surely police would have just asked them ! if couple
of their friends did that check so could be ruled out by asking all the tappas 9 who where there !

by Guest 20.05.13 12:23

View-from-Ireland wrote:In the reports we are reading, a lot of ambiguous language is being used and this indicates to me that the police know that persons in the Tapas group had called on Maddie earlier in the week and that something terrible may have happened at that point.

-'British couple'

-'Middle-aged'

-'Soothed Maddie'

-'Known to the McCanns'

I'm sorry, I must have missed this bit in all the flurry of Madeleine stories: 'Known to the McCanns'.

Could you please direct me to which new report that phrase appears in?

Who is known to the McCanns?

The Moyes?
The mystery couple if it is not the Moyes?
The couple who reportedly soothed Madeleine?
Someone else?

Many thanks

by sheila.edwards 20.05.13 12:27

friends COUPLES they went on holiday with eg that david payne etc

by View-from-Ireland 20.05.13 12:58

MJC wrote:
View-from-Ireland wrote:In the reports we are reading, a lot of ambiguous language is being used and this indicates to me that the police know that persons in the Tapas group had called on Maddie earlier in the week and that something terrible may have happened at that point.

-'British couple'

-'Middle-aged'

-'Soothed Maddie'

-'Known to the McCanns'
I'm sorry, I must have missed this bit in all the flurry of Madeleine stories: 'Known to the McCanns'.

Could you please direct me to which new report that phrase appears in?

Who is known to the McCanns?

The Moyes?

The mystery couple if it is not the Moyes?
The couple who reportedly soothed Madeleine?
Someone else?

Many thanks

I read it yesterday but cannot find the link I will keep searching. I forget which paper it was in.

by View-from-Ireland 20.05.13 13:00

I am at work so my post was a little imprecise, should have said 'may be known to McCanns'. Read it yesterday in a report.

by Guest 20.05.13 13:06

View-from-Ireland wrote:I am at work so my post was a little imprecise, should have said 'may be known to McCanns'. Read it yesterday in a report.

Thank you - that sounds much more like it, but I should still, please, like to see the reference as I can't find anywhere where it says the Moyes or either of the mystery couples were 'known to the McCanns'.

All I can find is that the Moyes couple said they were roused by 'friends of the McCanns' at about 1pm Friday 4 May to help look for Madeleine.

Could that have been what you were referring to?

by Guest 20.05.13 13:30

Pershing36 wrote:
sami wrote:

Now Scotland Yard, my question is, if that is not neglect, what is ? On this basis why are the parents not being questioned about this neglect right now?

It is not neglect, sounds like complete and utter bull to me. If this is to be believed they may as well tear up all the other statements as it goes against everything else apparently seen that night.

What did they do, jemmy the shutters and quickly repair them afterwards?

Crept in through the shutters;
Soothed the weeping (KH?) or crying (Maddie, Sean a/o Amelie?) persons in the appartment 5a, as witnessed by Anonymous
Jemmied the shutters,
Crept out of the shutters;
Vanished into thin air for six years

Good job, that.

by View-from-Ireland 20.05.13 13:37

MJC wrote:
View-from-Ireland wrote:I am at work so my post was a little imprecise, should have said 'may be known to McCanns'. Read it yesterday in a report.
Thank you - that sounds much more like it, but I should still, please, like to see the reference as I can't find anywhere where it says the Moyes or either of the mystery couples were 'known to the McCanns'.

All I can find is that the Moyes couple said they were roused by 'friends of the McCanns' at about 1pm Friday 4 May to help look for Madeleine.

Could that have been what you were referring to?

No it wasn't that. I read something along the lines 'mystery couple may have been known to the McCanns' but I cannot find the link. Sorry about that.

by margaret 20.05.13 13:41

View-from-Ireland wrote:
MJC wrote:
View-from-Ireland wrote:I am at work so my post was a little imprecise, should have said 'may be known to McCanns'. Read it yesterday in a report.
Thank you - that sounds much more like it, but I should still, please, like to see the reference as I can't find anywhere where it says the Moyes or either of the mystery couples were 'known to the McCanns'.

All I can find is that the Moyes couple said they were roused by 'friends of the McCanns' at about 1pm Friday 4 May to help look for Madeleine.

Could that have been what you were referring to?

No it wasn't that. I read something along the lines 'mystery couple may have been known to the McCanns' but I cannot find the link. Sorry about that.

I remember that VFI, l think it was a blog post...

by Guest 20.05.13 13:48

is this what you are looking for?

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by margaret 20.05.13 14:11

chubbarie wrote:is this what you are looking for?

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Yes thanks chubbarie, that's the one l was thinking of

by worriedmum 20.05.13 14:15

quote''

Crept in through the shutters;
Soothed the weeping (KH?) or crying (Maddie, Sean a/o Amelie?) persons in the appartment 5a, as witnessed by Anonymous
Jemmied the shutters,
Crept out of the shutters;
Vanished into thin air for six years '' unquote

BUT you forgot to add-
'tainted the apartment with cadaver odour' ...

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by Guest 20.05.13 14:26

chubbarie wrote:is this what you are looking for?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Thank you, I suspect this is what view-from-ireland was talking about, as it isn't mentioned in any of the clutch of Madeleine news articles over the weekend.

It is Chelsea Hoffman, on examiner.com, asking a perfectly reasonabe question.

I think the title of this thread is all wrong, it is like 'When did you stop beating your wife?'

Mods, can you change the title of this thread to: 'Did anyone actually soothe a weeping Maddie?'

by Pershing36 20.05.13 14:27

Just been reading the Daily Star.

The team of Brit cleaners went from apartment to apartment offering their services with a focus on ex-pats.

A source said there was “quite a culture of people drifting from door to door” offering to tidy gardens and scrub windows or roofs.

There is quite a culture of that here in England, we call them travellers or gypsies.

I wonder if that is were we are heading?

When in doubt, refer to the old myth of gypsies stealing children.

by lj 20.05.13 14:38

sami wrote:
MJC wrote:This is one the reasons why I place no reliance on the Express and Star reports - the vague language - examples from the Express article below:

***

trying to find

middle-aged

said to have

It is believed they

A source said

Apparently

a lot of people of interest

people who could be properly explored further

understands that

I can see what you are saying. What is its purpose in being printed and who is behind it ?

This is very damaging to the McCanns and for me blows the responsible parenting claim right out of water. No grey area any longer. Their children were alone, in an un-locked apartment, for sufficient time to become hysterical, long enough for two people to stand outside, listen, decide the crying will not stop and there is nobody there, enter the apartment, soothe, and leave. Still no parent arrived.

Now Scotland Yard, my question is, if that is not neglect, what is ? On this basis why are the parents not being questioned about this neglect right now?

It is interesting though that somewhere one of SY mumbling heads stated that the McCanns have behaved "heroic". It's somewhere in the begin of this thread, but the search cannot find it.

If an official LE person is so blindsided that he calls this very deliberated neglect of 3 children by a pair of pathetic parents "heroic" you can imagine what the rest of the £4.6 M investigation is worth.

Having said that, and being very skeptical of this soothing couple story: could it have been another couple from the Tapas bar? Could it be OC personal. I know, but of course that too has disappeared, that in the beginning Batista had a talk with them about the crying, warning that neglect in Portugal is punishable with jail time. I always thought that that was the reason the Tapas closed ranks: after all they were all guilty.
Could Batista have asked another OC employee to go with her and check on the crying?

by Cheshire Cat 20.05.13 14:56

Pershing36 wrote:Just been reading the Daily Star.
The team of Brit cleaners went from apartment to apartment offering their services with a focus on ex-pats. A source said there was “quite a culture of people drifting from door to door” offering to tidy gardens and scrub windows or roofs.
There is quite a culture of that here in England, we call them travellers or gypsies. I wonder if that is were we are heading? When in doubt, refer to the old myth of gypsies stealing children.

I think you could be right. Perhaps the Yard are trying to keep it simple and will ignore all the conflicting statements and muddled timelines. A nice tidy solution being set up with a new cast of characters. No further questioning of the Tapas et al required - dismissed because irrelevant? However, I have a feeling that that even this 'new' theory will, in time, unravel.

19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express