Re: Photographs and memories Part 2

by Guest 25.09.12 12:23

Hummingbird wrote:
Moa wrote:
Hummingbird wrote:
jd wrote:How do you explain this?
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Don't know tbh jd!! The boy on the sofa looks like he has a slimmer face to the boy walking with GM!! All very odd!!

Also the little girl being held on Grannys lap looks more like the scowling girl in the hammock picture than MM does!

I totally agree that the first Xmas pictures are very odd the hair is different, unless it was a practice run as who has sellotape out on Xmas morning? All the wrapping is done by then!!

Its defently not 2 years between these pictures, as the twins where born in 2005 I guess?

I guess its taken close up to their travel to PDL..

But still, kids grow fast in that age, but if its only 4 -5 months between this photo I guess he would not have grown out of the clothes.

I agree there is not 2 years difference here BUT if you are to believe that this is JUST prior to the pdl holiday then look at MM and compare her with the tennis photo!!!!

None of the pictures are compareble to the Tennis pic photo ..imo...

But her hair looks like the same length.. Would be interresting to know when this picture was taken, the one from the sofa...

I think the picture of K and M when she is riding the horse, that looks nothing like the M we have been presented with IMHO...

Also quriouse about the vid picture where it looks like to Madeleines and one Amelie... The last picture in the row JD posted..

by Guest 25.09.12 12:33

So lets say this one is taken in 2007 ,obviously before May sometime

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And if this is taken also in 2007 before May,

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Her hair is different in lenghts..

by joyce1938 25.09.12 14:41

I think some have reffered to this cake as maybe a christening cake for the twins ,having pink and blue icing on it ,doesnt seem like a cake for maddie?the correct date of said christening maybe hard to calculate? joyce1938

by sami 25.09.12 15:36

joyce1938 wrote:I think some have reffered to this cake as maybe a christening cake for the twins ,having pink and blue icing on it ,doesnt seem like a cake for maddie?the correct date of said christening maybe hard to calculate? joyce1938

The usual timeframe for Catholics would be up to about three months of age, to have their child christened. This is not a rule and means nothing in this case of course, but it is a guideline.

However, they had Madeleine christened, we saw a photo and she was small, not more than three months I think, so I cannot see why they would change that for the twins ? This would bring us to end of May / or June sort of timeframe for the christening. Just in my opinion of course.

by Miraflores 25.09.12 18:49

A christening in May would fit in with the clothes they are wearing and the greenery in the garden - especially if it was warm that year.

by Guest 25.09.12 18:53

Going by the three months guideline that would have been in May 2005 and Madeleine only just 2. I don't think she could possibly have been that young in the photos.

by sami 25.09.12 19:06

Jean wrote:Going by the three months guideline that would have been in May 2005 and Madeleine only just 2. I don't think she could possibly have been that young in the photos.

She looks a lot bigger in the photo yes. It could be anytime that year from say May to September, using the weather as a guideline. Otherwise it is into the following year when the twins were a year plus old and Madeleine turning three. That seems more likely in terms of her age in the photo. That would make it 2006 so ? No law against that, but I'm only suggesting because they had Madeleine christened early, people would usually do the same for siblings.

The other odd thing though is you don't normally put candles on a christening cake, I have never ever seen them. Only thing I can think of that would account for that would be something that was done just for Madeleine. Cake equals candles for little ones, they love blowing them out.

There was a reference from the Paynes at one time that they used to meet up for the childrens birthdays. Is it possible there was a get together and the cake was for another child altogether ? Odd the aunt would be there, is there a cousin or relative that fits the bill ?

by uppatoffee 25.09.12 19:23

The cake is a birthday cake for Sean and Amelie's 1st birthday, hence the candle. They were born 1 February 2005. This would make the date of photo around the start of February 2006, so Madeleine, born 12 May 2003, would be coming up for 3. I think this fits with what she looks like in the photo.

by sami 25.09.12 20:05

uppatoffee wrote:The cake is a birthday cake for Sean and Amelie's 1st birthday, hence the candle. They were born 1 February 2005. This would make the date of photo around the start of February 2006, so Madeleine, born 12 May 2003, would be coming up for 3. I think this fits with what she looks like in the photo.

But then the clothes that they are wearing and the garden shots do not accord with the start of February ?

by uppatoffee 25.09.12 20:34

Unless there is any historic weather data I guess it is hard to tell. I have often found February to be relatively mild and for my own daughter to enjoy dressing up like a princess regardless of the weather.

The cake is definitely for Sean and Amelie. Someone posted a high res version of this photo about a year ago and it the writing on it was very clear. There is blue and pink icing looking like ribbons entwined round the side of the cake and it said Amelie and Sean on the top.

by bobbin 25.09.12 21:41

uppatoffee wrote:Unless there is any historic weather data I guess it is hard to tell. I have often found February to be relatively mild and for my own daughter to enjoy dressing up like a princess regardless of the weather.

The cake is definitely for Sean and Amelie. Someone posted a high res version of this photo about a year ago and it the writing on it was very clear. There is blue and pink icing looking like ribbons entwined round the side of the cake and it said Amelie and Sean on the top.

Without the photos to hand, my memory, in previous discussions is that the greenery is deciduous bushes etc. and they could not have come into leaf in February. Leaves start coming out not before end of March.

by Guest 25.09.12 23:20

uppatoffee wrote:Unless there is any historic weather data I guess it is hard to tell. I have often found February to be relatively mild and for my own daughter to enjoy dressing up like a princess regardless of the weather.

The cake is definitely for Sean and Amelie. Someone posted a high res version of this photo about a year ago and it the writing on it was very clear. There is blue and pink icing looking like ribbons entwined round the side of the cake and it said Amelie and Sean on the top.

That is correct, the cake has their name on it, Sean and Amalie.
I looked on it before, will look again tomorrow when I'm on my computer.. It must be the twins birthday, not sure if it's their first or second one...

by jd 26.09.12 1:11

It seems this photo was reported on 5th August 2007 in a Daily Mail "exclusive" (just before Eddie and Keela went in). The caption under the photo says 'Celebrating Maddies 2nd Birthday, kate with Aunt Nora'...I guess that this should be taken with a pinch of salt knowing how the media have been falsely reporting the mccanns in recent times.

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Now it seems very interesting kate quotes "I thought we were going to have a boy just based on instinct.....". That hammock photo and the Sun headline photo is really intriguing now

What did happen to that boy in the hammock? Who the heck is he? Is this why they withheld medical records and have suspicious Maddie birth certificates. What was the CATS registration related to, it will be related to something even if jim gamble deleted it off the system. Its there for a reason no matter what anyone says, what is the reason for it?

I put the questions out there and it may mean nothing but then it just might....This is what they are covering up

by Hummingbird 26.09.12 9:32

sami wrote:
uppatoffee wrote:The cake is a birthday cake for Sean and Amelie's 1st birthday, hence the candle. They were born 1 February 2005. This would make the date of photo around the start of February 2006, so Madeleine, born 12 May 2003, would be coming up for 3. I think this fits with what she looks like in the photo.

But then the clothes that they are wearing and the garden shots do not accord with the start of February ?

uppatoffee I have to agree with that theory BUT then as sami says it really does not fit with the garden shot.

I have just blown this garden photo up and in the background are crocosmia flowers which only flower in SUMMER. They are a LATE summer flowering plant which flower AUG - SEPT!!

So back to the drawing board on the dates for that picture - one question hoe do we know 100% this was taken on the same day as the cake photo? Just because she is wearing the same dress or is there some other evidence that points to it?

by Ribisl 26.09.12 9:44

Hummingbird wrote:
sami wrote:
uppatoffee wrote:The cake is a birthday cake for Sean and Amelie's 1st birthday, hence the candle. They were born 1 February 2005. This would make the date of photo around the start of February 2006, so Madeleine, born 12 May 2003, would be coming up for 3. I think this fits with what she looks like in the photo.

But then the clothes that they are wearing and the garden shots do not accord with the start of February ?

uppatoffee I have to agree with that theory BUT then as sami says it really does not fit with the garden shot.

I have just blown this garden photo up and in the background are crocosmia flowers which only flower in SUMMER. They are a LATE summer flowering plant which flower AUG - SEPT!!

So back to the drawing board on the dates for that picture - one question hoe do we know 100% this was taken on the same day as the cake photo? Just because she is wearing the same dress or is there some other evidence that points to it?

The cake is for the twins' christening which must have taken place sometime in the summer.

by Guest 26.09.12 10:44

Ribisl wrote:
Hummingbird wrote:
sami wrote:
uppatoffee wrote:The cake is a birthday cake for Sean and Amelie's 1st birthday, hence the candle. They were born 1 February 2005. This would make the date of photo around the start of February 2006, so Madeleine, born 12 May 2003, would be coming up for 3. I think this fits with what she looks like in the photo.

But then the clothes that they are wearing and the garden shots do not accord with the start of February ?

uppatoffee I have to agree with that theory BUT then as sami says it really does not fit with the garden shot.

I have just blown this garden photo up and in the background are crocosmia flowers which only flower in SUMMER. They are a LATE summer flowering plant which flower AUG - SEPT!!

So back to the drawing board on the dates for that picture - one question hoe do we know 100% this was taken on the same day as the cake photo? Just because she is wearing the same dress or is there some other evidence that points to it?

The cake is for the twins' christening which must have taken place sometime in the summer.

BTW, was Maddie christened, and do we have any evidence (pictures) of that?

by sami 26.09.12 11:13

@ portia - yes i have a memory of a reference to it, i had a photo in mind and checked it but she is not wearing a robe in it.

by Guest 26.09.12 11:25

It definitely was NOT February 2006:

February 2006

The averaging period used for the following assessment was 1961-1990.
UK overview

Mean temperatures ranging from below average across south-west England to above average across Scotland. Rainfall well below average across Northern Ireland, with parts of south-east England and East Anglia, experiencing above average rainfall.

Grantown-on-Spey recorded a temperature of -12.2°C and Aviemore -11.6 °C, both on 1st February. Twenty-four hour maximum temperature at Leek was -2.3 °C on 1st. Hastings recorded 31.2 mm of rain in the 24 hours ending 1800 on 20th.
England and Wales diary of highlights

Temperatures close to average, but the coldest February since 1996.

1st to 7th It was a dry start to the month as high pressure remained dominant across England and Wales. It was cold with freezing fog patches in many places and snow grains reported from southern England and East Anglia. Leek in Staffordshire remained below freezing all day on the 1st, recording a 24-hour maximum of -2.3 °C.

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by sami 26.09.12 11:30

The quote below is from the Liverpool Echo. There are quite a few references in other articles also to Fr Paul Seddon, having being the Priest who married Kate and Gerry and subsequently baptised Madeleine.

Vigil marks a month since Maddie's disappearance

Jun 4, 2007

ABOUT 500 people gathered in the Merseyside church where Madeleine McCann was baptised for a prayer vigil last night.

by Guest 26.09.12 12:02

Marian wrote:
tigger wrote:
Get 'em Gonçalo wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I'll check the larger photo again. Definitely the same age those two. But now I see a line in the neck of the poolside one which imo shouldn't be there. Because of that, the head makes a lot more sense if it's not on the body, there are a lot of mistakes in the neck area in many of the photoshopped pictures. The poolside one has poor little Amelie missing her upper arm, Gerry floating slightly and a flower in the background that blooms in June/July.

Tigger, if you mean the line to the left of Madeleine's chin in the pool photo, I agree that it looks strange as does the neck in both photos. She looks so pale at the pool, in marked contrast to Gerry who, judging by the sweat and sun tan, appears to be somewhere else all together. It's been confirmed elsewhere that the weather in May 2007 wasn't particularly good.

Someone else commented that the pool girl and tennis ball girl don't appear to be the same. I used to think that but, having seen the two photos together, I think they are but definitely not taken with a day or two of each other. There was an early report that Kate felt safe in PDL because she'd been there before. It may of course have been an error but if not, I think it's possible that the pool photo was taken the previous summer. That still doesn't explain why Madeleine looks so pale though!

Picture on the left: face looks left, neck points straight ahead. Head floats in the air, also see marked chin. Ergo: head shopped in?

by Hummingbird 26.09.12 13:01

Ribisl wrote:
Hummingbird wrote:
sami wrote:
uppatoffee wrote:The cake is a birthday cake for Sean and Amelie's 1st birthday, hence the candle. They were born 1 February 2005. This would make the date of photo around the start of February 2006, so Madeleine, born 12 May 2003, would be coming up for 3. I think this fits with what she looks like in the photo.

But then the clothes that they are wearing and the garden shots do not accord with the start of February ?

uppatoffee I have to agree with that theory BUT then as sami says it really does not fit with the garden shot.

I have just blown this garden photo up and in the background are crocosmia flowers which only flower in SUMMER. They are a LATE summer flowering plant which flower AUG - SEPT!!

So back to the drawing board on the dates for that picture - one question hoe do we know 100% this was taken on the same day as the cake photo? Just because she is wearing the same dress or is there some other evidence that points to it?

The cake is for the twins' christening which must have taken place sometime in the summer.

If this is a christening then firstly I do not believe Kate would be dressed like that and secondly why are they having the celebrations at home - surely 2 Drs would have had this celebration catered?

But lets assume they do have it at home - then I do not believe there would be candles and why would anyone feel the need to put them on there just so MM could blow 2 out? Yes, if she has just witnessed Seam and Amalie blow them out, because it is their B'day cake and wants a go herself, that I can understand but if they were not there in the first place - because you don't have candles at christenings - there would be no need for MM to feel left out!!!!!

I cannot buy that this is a christening cake - sorry just my opinion.

by jd 26.09.12 15:42

Just found this article on Pamalam which I hadn't seen before. Seems this is the origination of the cake photo..Daily Mail 6th May 2007...just 3 days after the scam broke. This was quick to get the photos and the information together and into the press only 3 days later

According to the article, the cake was for Maddies birthday in May 2006 and it is a cake based on the Wallace And Gromit theme

It's Maddy's birthday on Saturday and we're still making her a Dr Who cake
Just as she did last year, a family friend is making a special birthday cake for Madeleine. Only this year she is hoping the little girl, who turns four on Saturday, will be home to taste it.

Madeleine's great-uncle, Brian Kennedy, said the cake has a Dr Who theme because the toddler is such a big fan.

'Last year the friend made Madeleine a cake with a Wallace And Gromit theme,' he said. 'This year she's making a Dr Who one and we have told her to carry on [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]Pride and joy: Madeleine blows out the candles
on a birthday cake

It typifies the response of Madeleine's family, who remain in Britain: they are striving to remain positive and strong, yet they live with pain and uncertainty.

They will the phone to ring with good news, yet at the same time they fear it ringing - because it might just be heartbreak on the end of the line.

As Mr Kennedy, a retired headmaster, said yesterday: 'We fear the worst but we are hoping for the best.'

Mr Kennedy said prayers were being said in the family's home village of Rothley, Leicestershire, and he and his wife, Janet, attended a prayer meeting last night at the village church, close to the McCanns' home.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] Kate McCann, Madeleine's mother,
with son Sean

Mr Kennedy, who lives just a few roads away from Madeleine's parents, added: 'It is a very difficult time. You lose a child for a few minutes and you worry about them.

'They are highly responsible parents who are absolutely devoted to their family. I can only imagine what they are like at the moment.'

He added: 'Madeleine is a lovely girl, an intelligent, bright child. We are the only close relatives the family have in the area and we see them most weeks. You won't find more caring parents.'

Last night more relatives flew out to Portugal to help the search, as most of the rest of the family gathered at Mr McCann's mother's home in Glasgow.

Mr McCann's sister-in-law Diane, 39, said: 'Gerry is trying to keep things together. All three children are their pride and joy but Madeleine was the first. They'd spent five years trying for a child through IVF treatment before Madeleine appeared.

'It's the sort of situation no parent would ever want to find themselves in and we just hope and pray Madeleine will be found.'

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by jd 26.09.12 15:50

Which is the younger kate mccann? A or B
Which is the older child? A or B

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by **tigger** 26.09.12 16:38

Kate is about the same age, but I can't get over her figure if she actually had a baby - not a hint of a tummy and not exactly up several bra sizes.
Definitely a younger Maddie, no more than a month or two, three there. The lying down photo I don't even think is Maddie but about 5, 6 months?
The baby Maddie - something definitely wrong with that right eye as one can see in many photos.

So totally skinny after giving birth just a few months ago? Can happen but is very rare. Is there any mention of breastfeeding Maddie?

by **tigger** 26.09.12 16:43

Poster photo : pre 3/5
Tennis girl : went viral with email sent by Philomena. around 8/5 - 9/5.
Baby photo with kate 6/5
Belfast Telegraph with Donegal photos 8/5.

Everton photo was fairly soon too.

I'd like to make a list, but the above already shouts 'preparation' - since the coloboma disappeared off the menu, this means that someone, somewhere is likely to have done the additions and changes and pasting before 3/5.
Certainly TM had little time immediately after 3/5 to go into graphic design. Therefore.....

@ Portia: yes - totally sure that Donegal photos have Maddie's face pasted on, badly too. But now I'm beginning to wonder about that turned head on the pink gap dress, that head would make so much more sense if the body was turned that way too. Perhaps that's why the Gap dress never made an appearance. It wasn't hers.
The other distinguishing mark - probably a real one - is a scar or mark on Maddie's leg. Now nothing is ever made of that in interviews or in tracing her.
I'm wondering if the silence is because some photographs show a leg without any such mark. It is in the PJ files.

by Guest 26.09.12 19:21

JD, I don't think the Daily Mail article solves the "mystery of the birthday cake" - sounds like a case for Hercule Poirot!

A friend made a Wallace and Gromit cake in 2006 but the caption to the photo merely states "a birthday cake" not that specific one.

Two candles with blue and pink icing can only be for the twins. I can't think of any connection with that and Wallace and Gromit.

by jd 26.09.12 20:30

Jean wrote:JD, I don't think the Daily Mail article solves the "mystery of the birthday cake" - sounds like a case for Hercule Poirot!

A friend made a Wallace and Gromit cake in 2006 but the caption to the photo merely states "a birthday cake" not that specific one.

Two candles with blue and pink icing can only be for the twins. I can't think of any connection with that and Wallace and Gromit.

I wasn't saying the DM solves the birthday cake mystery, just putting the facts of when this photo came about in the media and interestingly...the date it first appeared. I would agree that the pink and blue icing is logically for the twins and it is likely the 'photo' that was used in the DM was not from Maddies birthday, but the DM using it and lying about it was to sell their story. Shows the mccann machine was in full swing to report their lies

Tiggers list of photos is interesting. I am sure that the tennis girl photo (which I think is Amelie, exact same body to anyone who noticed) was first given to the media on 6th May. I am sure I have seen an article from May 6th that had the tennis girl photo in it. I think it is in the mccann files. Then Pat Perkins (who got her friend in a PDL bar to phone kate mccann on 3rd May) sent her viral email on the 9th May. Its funny that they released all these photos into the media at the time Maddie was reported missing, but nobody thought of releasing a latest one!!! until we had the photoshopped poolside a massive 3 weeks later. If you not releasing latest photos of the missing child what does this tell you?

And lets not forget how they within an hour they had managed to create and then print posters of Maddie (using an old photo, where did they get this from) on paper that could not be bought in PDL. One issue that the PJ could never resolve. The reception printer was used for other copies not these specially printed photos. Maybe Malinka printed them off on his computer on May 1st or 2nd and phoned murat 20 mins after kate mccann started the scam to check if they were being used laughat

Poster photo : pre 3/5
Tennis girl : went viral with email sent by Philomena. around 8/5 - 9/5.
Baby photo with kate 6/5
Belfast Telegraph with Donegal photos 8/5.

Everton photo was fairly soon too.

by jd 26.09.12 21:51

We are told that kate mccann ran back to get her camera and take the photo of Maddie on the Tennis Court on May 1st. We are told that kate mccann took the poolside photo from her camera on May 3rd and cannot use her camera anymore since this day. Therefore both photos are on kate mccann's camera and 48 hours apart

The Tennis Court photo was in the press by May 6th (I am very sure) and used in an email chain by Pat Perkins back in the UK by May 9th. Question is, if both pictures were on kate mccanns camera and they can get the tennis court photo to the UK, why was the iconic poolside photo that shows Maddie very clearly never seen until 3 weeks later on May 24th?....and only after gerry mccann got back to PDL from his splash and dash visit to the UK to look at all the photos and videos of Maddie. The very one they used, they already had with them in PDL on kate mccanns camera...according to them that is

by Ribisl 26.09.12 23:30

Hummingbird wrote:
Ribisl wrote:

The cake is for the twins' christening which must have taken place sometime in the summer.

If this is a christening then firstly I do not believe Kate would be dressed like that and secondly why are they having the celebrations at home - surely 2 Drs would have had this celebration catered?

But lets assume they do have it at home - then I do not believe there would be candles and why would anyone feel the need to put them on there just so MM could blow 2 out? Yes, if she has just witnessed Seam and Amalie blow them out, because it is their B'day cake and wants a go herself, that I can understand but if they were not there in the first place - because you don't have candles at christenings - there would be no need for MM to feel left out!!!!!

I cannot buy that this is a christening cake - sorry just my opinion.

I follow your argument, but the twins' birthday is 1st February and who would dress the way they appear in these pictures in February in the UK? They are two doctors but weren't particularly well-off when they took their holiday in PDL, therefore it's not that odd that they should have a modest party at home. Yes, you wouldn't normally put candles on a christening cake but maybe they did it so Madeleine could blow them out as the party could have been as much a treat for her home coming (?) as it was for the twins' christening who would be too young to appreciate it in any case? Also you said yourself that some plants in the garden would only be in flower in the late summer. All very confusing... smilie