McCann DISCREPANCIES : Their statements tell a 'story' that wasn't known...UNTIL NOW!

NOTE: The following is based on research, separating the statements into 15 minute time periods. There is a link available to EVERYTHING.

Some of the over 200 TIMETABLES based on time periods and specific events during the week can be found here:

TIMETABLES
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Timelines can be viewed listed under specific headings on this page:

Remembering Madeleine Forum
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We all come to this investigation with different levels of knowledge and with different areas of interest...

Some focus on the latest news...Some focus on connections...Some like to focus on hating the McCanns...

My area of knowledge in the case is about what happened during that few days of the holiday...

You will see me repeat several times about the 4 years I spent researching the timelines and discrepancies...That isn't because of requiring accolades... I did it because it is my passion to form an opinion based on knowledge and when asked I cannot pull a theory out of thin air...I form my opinions based on the information I have studied in the case and I hope that gives me credibility for members that have not had the time or opportunity to research to any extent.

I base all my videos (nearly 200) on the research and details from the files.

HiDeHo4 Youtube Channel
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That being said, I NEVER want anyone to believe something just because it is my, or anyone else's, opinion.  You MUST draw your own conclusions based on what you have CONFIRMED to be true.  Never blindly believe anything...that is what we try to do on HDH, is give you details and provide the links so you can confirm for YOURSELF.

After discovering some 'explosive' information yesterday I decided it was time to give you an overall knowledge of the 'week' so you could see for yourself a little of what I 'see' so you can maybe understand what my theories are based on.

This is all from memory so I will not be giving any links but will be more than happy to provide links to any  of the following information.

I will try to explain to you some of the things that happened during that week in chronological order as I recall from the research, so you can maybe understand why I believe something happened much earlier in the week.

Everything is based on the files or 'facts' that we know. Please ask if you would like a link to any of the details.

SATURDAY:
A normal holiday arrival.

They arrived mid afternoon...Went to the tapas at 5pm for information about the Ocean Club and details about its amenities.

From what I understand, half day creche was included but the second half of the day was 'extra' £540 (3 x £180)

They left there and went to the Millenium restaurant with all the childen. Ate their meal and went back to the apartment...ready for the start of their holiday.


SUNDAY:

We don't know too much about Sunday. The cleaners daughter saw them all outside the apartment at around 1.15pm... Madeleine holding bread and probably heading up to the Payne's apartment for lunch. (The last credible sighting of Madeleine during that week. imo)

They also went to the pool around lunchtime... A  lovely sunny day...temps around 23c (I believe that the 'last photo' was taken on this day)

Matthew Oldfield was (apparently) sick and did not go to the tapas on Sunday night but oddly, Russell O'Brien claimed that he went to check on Matthew and Rachael's child...

They dined at the tapas restaurant that night. Meals were included as was the wine.

MONDAY:

They all went to the Millenium for breakfast but the McCanns decided that it was difficult walking with the twins as they didnt have a buggy.

Kate played tennis (every day?) at 9.15am - 10.15am Gerry played from 10.15 -11.15am
Jane Tanner met up with friends of hers that were staying nearby (the Gorrods).

Speculation is that the McCanns went to Sagres but this has never been confirmed.

Creche records show that Madeleine was taken out of the creche after a few minutes and the twins shortly after but also not confirmed as the records are difficult to understand/believe.

Something may have happened with the shutters on Sunday as the maintenance men were called in.  (came on Tuesday) Curiously Matthew claims to have had a problem with his blinds also (they were in the apartment next door) but no record of having them fixed.

No other details...it was a day when noone seemed to want to discuss.  Kate claims in her diary that everyone was at the tapas.




TUESDAY:

This is the day that everything started to happen....

The McCanns decided to have breakfast in the apartment rather than walk to the Millenium because they didn't have a buggy for the twins..... and bought food from the Baptiste store nearby.

According to tennis records and Georgina the tennis coach, this was the morning that Madeleine had MINI TENNIS.

The mini tennis was discussed by Kate, Jane and Rachael and became very confusing as Rachael claims it was Thursday and Jane claims it was Wednesday. However. for the details of the mini tennis from them all one would expect the 'occasion' is remembered more than the date  (I will address Rachael and mini tennis later regarding a separate issue of the day she claims it to have been)

MINI TENNIS was between 10am and 11am (records show 10.30-11)

Catriona (Madeleine's nanny) was present with the children so Georgina really did not have reason to know the children's names and she did not CONFIRM Madeleine was there...just mentioned it was Madeleine's group (Lobsters) that was playing.

Kate claims to have run back to the apartment to get her camera to take a pic... Rachael claims it was Jane who took the tennis balls Pic and Russell claims it was not Jane.

Neither Kate nor Jane mentions Rachael being there despite Rachael claiming Kate sitting with her for the time previous to the mini tennis (when Kate was actually playing tennis and going to see the Maintenance men who were in her apartment at some time showing her how to work the washing machine and fixing the shutters )(had something happened to Madeleine and shutters were involved before this time?)

Lets keep in mind that if Rachael was lying about being at the tennis she may have thought it was Madeleine's mini tennis on Thursday when the other group played ((Sharks)

One of them claimed that Gerry came over to join them while they were watching Madeleine.... Gerry was playing tennis until 15 mins after Madeleine had finished playing so he couldnt have been there....




At lunchtime Gerry walked with Jez Wilkins to the creche to pick up Madeleine at lunchtime.  Gerry made a point of telling Jez that they left the children alone... Jez explained to him that the evening creche was available and that they provided blankets to bring the children home.
After lunch they all walked to the beach with the twins in a buggy ( ?).  It was a chilly day and the twins did not want to enter the water so they bought 5 ice creams (5? was this to confirm there were 5 of them at that point?) and they watched a guitarist at the restaurant...describing him in great detail.

Returning to the place Madeleine in the creche at 2.50pm.  Gerry bought sunglasses from one of the street vendors on the way back. (was this because the last picture had been taken on Sunday so by saying he didnt have sunglasses lent credibility to it having been taken after Tuesday?)

Once Madeleine was back at the creche, she went on an 'ice cream trip' which, according to TravelAdvisor, was something that was agreed and paid for separately...(so why had they just been and had ice creams?)


TUESDAY EVENING was when things started to become odd...

They all went to the tapas except Russell who stayed in his apartment because his youngest daughter was sick.

According to the quiz mistress who supervised the TRIVIA quiz from about 9pm (and then joined the table until approx 9.50pm) NO-ONE left the table and as she recalled, she did not see Kate during that time and does not remember seeing David Payne...

There was one place setting that looked like someone had been there and left. (9pm is when they usually start the appetisers)

So...was Russell, Kate and David Payne missing?

At 10.16pm Kate starts to receieve a 'flurry' of calls (5) until 10.27pm (presumably at the apartment as they claim they didn't take their phones to the restaurant)

Shortly after Mrs Fenn in the apartment above claims to have heard crying getting increasingly stronger with what sounded like 'Daddy, Daddy, Daddy' and it seemed to have come from a toddler for about an hour and quarter until 11.45pm.

(Turn down volume before watching - May be disturbing to some)


It is always presumed to be Madeleine but we know that Rachael claims to have bathed Jane Tanners older daughter in their apartment (while Jane was doing something else?) and their apartment was also directly next door to the McCanns and both were beneath Mrs Fenn.

She heard patio doors close and the crying stopped. Was someone using the patio doors to enter...or to exit?

She did not tell them about this as she didnt want to distress them further.

I believe this was the night they claimed that Amelie was crying and Madeleine came into their room.

There is a video clip of the hairdresser claiming that Mrs Fenn told them that the McCanns visited another bar, Chaplins that night but hearsay and may not be true.




WEDNESDAY MORNING

Very early around 7am Kate had 3 calls to her friend in England..Amanda (who is married to a pathologist)

Shortly after at around 8am, Gerry starts receiving the first of 14 text messages...

It was raining on Wednesday so the tennis was cancelled.

Dianne Webster decided to go to breakfast at the Millenium... Jane stayed at the apartment.

Dianne recalls seeing the McCanns at the Millenium despite them saying they didnt go for breakfast.

At some point during Wednesday morning the cleaner were let into their apartment and the McCanns left via the balcony door. (see video)





She made the beds and noticed a cot in the McCanns bedroom. Gerry and Kate BOTH deny the cot was there (why?)

Around lunchtime Kate went for a jog (in her pink trainers) with Matthew and apparently was bitten by a dog causing blood on her leg.

WEDNESDAY EVENING

Jez Wilkins was at the tapas when Gerry arrived with Russell and was told that Kate was putting the children to bed...She did not seem to arrive while he was there...

Where was Jane? With Kate?  (Had something happened to Madeleine and Kate was grieving?)

Did they EVER arrive?

The group stayed at the tapas late that night.  The waiters wanted to leave at midnight but the group stayed there until approx 1am. (Was there something important they needed to discuss?)

According to Kate and Gerry the left just before 11pm...Gerry left first and when she was back at the apartment Gerry was in bed...He claims Kate spent a few moments in bed and because of his snoring went to sleep in Madeleine and twins room...however when one looks at the bed in their room it shows no signs she laid in it.

Kate claims she was annoyed with him and didn't know if he knew she slept in the other room.




THURSDAY MORNING...






They awoke about 7am and Madeleine came to them and (according to May 4th statements) asked why they hadn't come when the TWINS were crying...

However...In Gerrys May 10th statement he changed it to MADELEINE was crying and it remains that version to this day...

What I find is curious is that Kate claims she would have not thought any more about the comment except once Madeleine was missing she recalled it and thought it was important...

Oddly, she told Jane and Fiona on Thursday night BEFORE Madeleine disappeared!

Not only that...If, as she claimed she told them on Thursday night then surely she would have told them the version she told the PJ on May 4th that it was the TWINS that were crying...so WHY did Jane and Fiona BOTH claim that she told them the version that MADELEINE was crying...this was the 'corrected' version 6 days later...so was it made AFTER they changed the version and if so WHY did they lie about being told on Thursday night?




THE FOLLOWING FEW HOURS ARE VERY IMPORTANT....and keep in mind these details are taken from their EARLY statements the following day so there should be NO QUESTION about memory...

Upon leaving the apartment Kate claims they ALL left through the front door... Gerry claims Kate and the kids left through the patio doors.

He left Kate to go down the steep steps with three children so he could lock the doors of an EMPTY apartment?

They tell us they dropped off the Twins at the tapas creche and Gerry took Madeleine to the Kids club creche at the reception while Kate played her tennis game at 9.15am (his followed at 11.15am)

The following hours are very difficult to explain because of the contradictions and possible lies....

Rachel claims she sat with Kate by the pool awaiting Madeleine's mini tennis and when the children arrived  (around 10.30am) claims Jane was there and took the photo of Madeleine with the tennis balls.

She ALSO claims that THIS WAS THE LAST TIME SHE SAW MADELEINE (was she trying to be helpful? Had something happened to Madeleine earlier and she saw little blonde girls, Madeleine's age playing tennis and thought that Madeleine should be there?)

The police were persistent in trying to establish with her WHICH courts the children were playing on.  The court she identified was the INCORRECT one according to the tennis records.

Jane and Russell claim to have both been at the mini tennis of the group that was NOT Madeleine's but was called the Sharks and was the same age group (Sharks)

They both recall speaking to Nigel...he had a camera and they discussed about how difficult it was to take pictures of children and how it could be misinterpreted.

During that half hour (10.30 - 11am) Jane left and went to the beach where she met Fiona and Dvid on the way back from windsurfing...both cold and heading back to the apartment to change.

Jane arrived at the beach in time to catch her older daughter (3 months younger than Madeleine and in the same group as Madeleine) getting ready to go back to the creche after their 'mini sail'

She took pictures of her daughter but no mention of Madeleine (pics not available in the files)
Jane's statement tells us that Russell went to the beach with her.

Although Rachael tells us she was at mini tennis on Thursday, there is no mention of her by Russell or Jane.

Bridget O'Donnell tells us in an interview with the Guardian that she saw the children (all pink and pretty) but does not specifically mention Madeleine.

She also tells us that Gerry and Kate spent time talking with the Tennis coach.

Fiona claims to have been with her by the pool and they both went to pick up Fiona's youngest daughter (in the same room as Madeleine) and Madeleine.

Kate signed Madeleine out at 12.25.

Kate says in her statement that she went back to the apartment first and prepared lunch for the children.

Gerry says that it was HIM that went to pick up Madeleine and he remembers that because he took the short cut.
Kate says she went back to the tapas creche to see if Gerry had picked up the twins... Neither of them appear to know and Catriona the nanny does not recall WHO picked up and dropped off Madeleine on Thursday.





This is very interesting as the police timeline diagrams claim that although Kate and Gerry claim the twins were in the creche....there are NO creche records for them....

Maybe they were not released as I have always believed....but the diagrams tell us something different....

Thursday morning diagrams do not show the twins were at the creche....

Jane mentions (in the diagrams) that they were picked up from the creche and Fiona claims they were with her ALL AFTERNOON!



If that is the case then HOW was the last picture taken?

Further confirmation that it was suspicious about whether Madeleine was there for the last picture at 2.29 on May 5th comes from Rachael....

She had said in her statement that both Jane and her played tennis that lunchtime...Supported by Jane Tanners statement...

Jane claims that Madeleine was shouting at them through the fence...Rachael does not mention this...and fort a good reason...

Rachael claims that the LAST TIME she saw Madeleine was during mini tennis...

Was that mini tennis on Thursday (when she  was mistaken and Madeleine didn't play) or was it on TUESDAY when Madeleines group played (In which case the last time she saw Madeleine was Tuesday?)

Either way... Rachael (by default) did NOT see Madeleine by the pool when they were playing tennis as she says the LAST time she saw Madeleine was when she was playing tennis (whether Tuesday morning or Thursday morning)

If that was the case...is it true that Jane and Rachael were playing tennis and Madeleine wasn't there for the last picture?

Is Rachael lying about the last time she saw Madeleine?

Jane claims to have seen Madeleine and Rachael didnt...are they BOTH lying about being there?

If they are both lying about playing tennis at the time the Last Picture was supposed to be taken.....is it pssible they were 'being helpful' but both had got the story wrong?

How could Jane see Madeleine but Rachael didnt?

Were they both there? (If they were lying...WHY?)

Were the McCanns there?

Most importantly ...was Madeleine there?

The McCanns claim they took the twins back to the creche at 2.40 (approx) and drpped Madeleine off at her creche at 2.50pm...

So...WHY did Fiona claim..(according to the diagrams) that SHE had the twins that afternoon?

WERE the twins at the creche or is it a story made up to support the 'Last Picture' (which I believe was taken on Sunday with just the exif data changed)?

THURSDAY AFTERNOON

During the afternoon Gerry and Kate were able to book a tennis court where they played before Gerry continued playing with one of the other guests.

Kate went for a jog and passed the T7 who were down on the beach at the Paraiso.

Clips from the footage is available to view, showing the timeline of their duration in the Paraiso restaurant.

The owner/manager claims Miguel Mattias, claims to have seen Madeleine dancing with her daddy at the restaurant and passed the footage to the PJ.

The footage confirms that Madeleine was not there and that he appears to have mistaken one of the other T7 children as being Madeleine (confirming the possibility of other witnesses being mistaken) and looked similar to Madeleine.

HIGH TEA

Gerry claims to have been at high tea while the children were there and Kate arrived after her jog at approx 5.30pm

Catriona the nanny claims that Gerry WASN'T there and that he was playing tennis....which is very odd as who would have told her that? WHEN?

Catriona was 'invited' to the McCanns home during November prior to the Rogatory statements and may have learned details and became confused.

Oddly, she also remembers details such as Kate wearing a jogging outfit.

Kate consistently claims that Madeleine was very tired an Madeleine asked her mother to carry her home.
The children were signed out at 5.30pm.

Kate then carried her back to the apartment but Gerry claims they went to the patio doors and he let them in through the back.  If, indeed, Kate had een carrying Madeleine, How did she manage the twins on her own, climbing the steep steps at the rear of the apartment.

This was a few hours before Madeleine disappeared and yet Kate claims she went in through the front doors.
 What mother would not remember the door used 3 hrs before she claims she saw her daughter for the LAST TIME!  Was it GERRY that got it wrong?

Did they REALLY go back to the apartment at that time?

They can't agree on what door was used even the following morning when they gave their statements?

THURSDAY EVENING

There are too many inconsistencies about the following few hours...

Russell claims that Kate and the children were there during the mens tennis...

Kate claims she went back to the apartment and took a shower AND a bath?

She claims she was in a towel when David Payne stopped by to pass a message on to her from Gerry ( about 6.30pm) asking if she needed help to take the children to the recreation area...

Kate claims he was there for about 30 seconds...

David Payne described the children at length....obviously from the detail he spent more than 30 seconds in the apartment.

Mrs Fenn (according to an interview with Goncalo Amaral) saw David Payne on the balcony about 7pm

Gerry had gone to tennis at 6.00pm...the others had arrived a while later from the Paraiso restaurant.

David Payne was  back at his apartment at 7.10pm.

The police asked Fiona...they finally had her agree that she had no idea where David Payne was between 6 and 7pm.

Fiona went out jogging while the children were bathed and just before it was time to go to the tapas, which made them a little late.

AT THE TAPAS

Gerry and Kate and Rachael and Matthew Oldfield arrived first  Jane (separate to Russell) arrived a little later.

At 9.00pm Matthew decided to 'chivvy' the Paynes as they hadn't arrived.

He walked up to the apartment and met them on the way down...but STRANGE...

Matthew claimed he saw them at the corner of the road by the frnt of the apartments....

Fiona claimed she saw him near the gate at the BACK of the apartment....

David claims he saw him near the swimming pool...

Dianne claimed that she CATEGORICALLY did not see him at all on her way to the tapas....at least until her Rogatories when she said she may have seen him as Fiona and David had REMINDED her... (Reminded?)

DINNER

During the dinner, the waiters claim that ONLY the men ever got up from the table and noone really knew WHY they left the table (until after the 'disappearance' when they PRESUMED they left the table to check the  children.

To be continued....

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Apologies for the 'Future Info' posts but the page is very large and I didn't want members posts getting lost. I will also use the posts to update with new info and summaries on the first page.. Thanks

We have all read about the confusion and conradictions during the meal so I will work backwards from that time so everyone can gradually see what the days/hours were like leading up to the disappearance.

Here are the tables for comparison of their statements at 15 minute intervals.  Keep in mind that memory prevents the times from being precise but it still highlights what each of them say about what everyone else was doing, and there is where we see the discrepancies...

Tables appear to be confusing but the left column gives the time and each box for that time is divided into each T9 activities or comments for that 15 min (approx)  To try and make it easier to see I have allocated each witness a colour and the columns enable you to see what they claim to have done and the other colours in that column  are what the other witnesses claim they said/did.


Title: Thursday May 3rd 9:00pm- 10:00pm (At the TABLE)
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Title: Timetable AFTER 10pm Disappearance (With phone info)
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Title: May 3rd 6:00 - 8:00pm
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[size=36][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.])[/size] Matthew Chivys the Paynes

Just before they were all sat at the table, Matthew decided he was going to 'chivy' the Paynes as they were late...

Matthew claims he saw them at the corner by the front door entrances/car park area

Fiona claims they me by the McCanns gate leading up to the patio doors

David Payne claims he they passed Matthew inside near the pool.

Dianne Webster in her first statement claims categorically that she did not see him, but in her rogatory interview she claims to have been 'reminded' by Dave and Fiona that they did pass Matt.

THEY ALL CLAIM A DIFFERENT PLACE...WHY?




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Regarding Madeleine telling them of the CRYING issue I think this may cast a doubt on what we have been 'told'

They claimed in their May 4th statements that it was the TWINS that were crying but it changed to Madeleine and Sean by Gerry's May 10th and Kate's September interview.

Always the question WHY change it from twins to Madeleine and Sean

WHY tell the police in the statement May 4th Was it to suggest she was alive Thursday morning or to prepare for the claim of an 'abductor' disturbing her the night before?

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Also worth noting is that Fiona and Jane claim that Kate told them on Thursday night at the table... If that is the case then surely she would have said it was the TWINS as she told the police the following morning....

Why do Jane and Fiona claim it was Madeleine and Sean...the REVISED version?

Were they 'told' AFTER and not at the table?

Always curious WHY it was changed (I have never believed it anyway)

She said on Oprah that Madeleine had wondered into their bedroom and climbed into their bed on a previous night because Amelie was crying (neither got up to check on her).

They said on Oprah... MADELEINE WANDERS IN THE NIGHT... AMELIE CRYS IN THE NIGHT.

So WHY the big puzzlement about Madeleine should saying "where you you when we were crying?" as if this was some unusual event.

It doesn't make the slightest bit of sense.

BlueBag wrote:She said on Oprah that Madeleine had wondered into their bedroom and climbed into their bed on a previous night because Amelie was crying (neither got up to check on her).

They said on Oprah... MADELEINE WANDERS IN THE NIGHT... AMELIE CRYS IN THE NIGHT.

So WHY the big puzzlement about Madeleine should saying "where you you when we were crying?" as if this was some unusual event.

It doesn't make the slightest bit of sense.

There were THREE crying incidents as you can see in this video. PLEASE TURN DOWN VOLUME BEFORE WATCHING

Love to see the McCann's and the group being quizzed about decrepancies regarding their statements in a court of law only one word springs to mind erm

ROSA wrote:Love to see the McCann's and the group being quizzed about decrepancies regarding their statements in a court of law only one word springs to mind erm

Well, it looks like at least the T7 statements are held in court as 'Memory of Future'.  I checked and they all stayed on that week to maybe be available for it.  They all give statements that are held and opened in the case of a future trial.

It was changed in September to Maddie alone because that facilitated the myth of the trial run by an abductor and the stain on Maddie's top that Kate allegedly found in the morning was the other big clue for the PJ to jump on.

HiDeHo wrote:

ROSA wrote:Love to see the McCann's and the group being quizzed about decrepancies regarding their statements in a court of law only one word springs to mind erm

Well, it looks like at least the T7 statements are held in court as 'Memory of Future'.  I checked and they all stayed on that week to maybe be available for it.  They all give statements that are held and opened in the case of a future trial.

The tapas statements were clearly fabricated/altered to make the 'child checking rota' look plausible. I am in no doubt that no police force involved in the case believes a word of them. This is why they have not pushed for a reconstruction...why reconstruct rubbish??

I do however believe that the tapas statements will be used in court in future to help unpick the truth regarding the parenting/checking of the children, or more so....the lack of it and thus be used against the McCanns and the Tapas group to press for neglect charges.

IMO these charges are being delayed due to the PJ wanting to pursue a death by neglect claim against the parents and therefore the focus at the moment is to find a body or the get a confession from the person who killed Madeleine and removed the cadaver.

I know the case was reopened.

But is the case still open in Portugal?

Good question. I presume yes as they are working in collaboration with UK officers, but inly confirmation from the PJ themselves or OG could confirm that.


However, if not, the original case was 'shelved', not closed, so can be taken off the shelf at any time when enough evidence is collated to pursue whatever charges they push for  

BlueBag wrote:I know the case was reopened.

But is the case still open in Portugal?

The case is still ongoing in Portugal but due to Judicial Secrecy we know nothing about their findings.

There would have been a very good reason to believe the new information would help bring the case to a close so we should all have our fingers crossed.

There is always the possibility that the McCanns could have been, once again, declared arguidos, but we certainly don't know if they have been.

If that was to have happened, then the case would likely follow the same Portuguese law as before. 8 months after a declared arguido the case is shelved with two possible 3 month extensions, as was the case with the first investigation.

14 months after Robert Murat was declared arguido is when they had to either charge someone or shelve the case.

According to the Archiving dispatch, it was still unknown what the crime was so impossible to charge anyone.


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We are all waiting for the day that the Portuguese investigation has a conclusion as well as Scotland Yard.  Along with the decision from the appeal we have some interesting times ahead.

Get'emGonçalo wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Seems to me that this person hasn't read the witness statements to, at the very least, question whether they are proof.  Blindly believing seems to be what has kept this case going.

guest12345 wrote:

HiDeHo wrote:

ROSA wrote:Love to see the McCann's and the group being quizzed about decrepancies regarding their statements in a court of law only one word springs to mind erm

Well, it looks like at least the T7 statements are held in court as 'Memory of Future'.  I checked and they all stayed on that week to maybe be available for it.  They all give statements that are held and opened in the case of a future trial.

The tapas statements were clearly fabricated/altered to make the 'child checking rota' look plausible. I am in no doubt that no police force involved in the case believes a word of them. This is why they have not pushed for a reconstruction...why reconstruct rubbish??

I do however believe that the tapas statements will be used in court in future to help unpick the truth regarding the parenting/checking of the children, or more so....the lack of it and thus be used against the McCanns and the Tapas group to press for neglect charges.

IMO these charges are being delayed due to the PJ wanting to pursue a death by neglect claim against the parents and therefore the focus at the moment is to find a body or the get a confession from the person who killed Madeleine and removed the cadaver.

If they did go to the court for 'Memory of the future' they would have given statements over and above the ones they gave to the PJ.  We don't know whether they were asked questions or how their statements were given in court but I would guess there is more information on record in that courtroom than they would have preferred.

The PJ did not pursue the 'neglect issue, probably for two reasons...

1) There is no evidence (apart from their word) that the children were left alone.  Many of us believe they claimed they left them alone because that was the only way they could claim the window of opportunity for the 'abductor'.  Without neglect, there couldn't have been an abduction.





2) I don't have the text handy at the moment but neglect in Portugual requires INTENT and there was no indication of that, so 'neglect' was not pursued.

HiDeHo wrote:

BlueBag wrote:I know the case was reopened.

But is the case still open in Portugal?

The case is still ongoing in Portugal but due to Judicial Secrecy we know nothing about their findings.

There would have been a very good reason to believe the new information would help bring the case to a close so we should all have our fingers crossed.

There is always the possibility that the McCanns could have been, once again, declared arguidos, but we certainly don't know if they have been.

If that was to have happened, then the case would likely follow the same Portuguese law as before. 8 months after a declared arguido the case is shelved with two possible 3 month extensions, as was the case with the first investigation.

14 months after Robert Murat was declared arguido is when they had to either charge someone or shelve the case.

According to the Archiving dispatch, it was still unknown what the crime was so impossible to charge anyone.


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We are all waiting for the day that the Portuguese investigation has a conclusion as well as Scotland Yard.  Along with the decision from the appeal we have some interesting times ahead.

Unfortunately without a confession from one of those involved, or find the body, then there will be no arrests. This how the law works. They probably know EXACTLY what has happened. A few nights ago I was watching Forensic Detectives, on the TRU channel. I young girl had disappeared without trace. The detectives knew that she was last seen near tennis courts with a man, and as time went on, the police knew that he was responsible for her disappearance, and that he had in all probability, murdered her, but there could not find a body. They even knew how he had disposed of the body, but it wasn't enough to  arrest him.

 However, a few years later he was arrested and jailed for another unconnected crime. Eventually, the man confessed to another inmate. Again, this wasn't enough to charge the killer with  the murder of the young girl. Eventually, the killer, after 20 years, confessed to the murder, and he confessed to how he got rid of the girl's body. But without that confession, despite them knowing all along, who the murderer was, without a body or a confession he would never have been charged with that murder.

It's amazing what Kate can cram into 15 mins!

According to Gerry, they ALL walked to the tapas area at 4.45pm (after arriving in their apartment at 3pm)

The tapas welcome meeting was from 5pm - 6.30pm.



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Great work. I hope you've sent it across to operation grange for them to compare. 
Along with all your questions etc.

I also like your videos, but struggle to watch them without narration.
(may be asking too much) but have you considered putting them all together into a loose change type documentary?
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loopzdaloop wrote:Great work. I hope you've sent it across to operation grange for them to compare. 
Along with all your questions etc.

I also like your videos, but struggle to watch them without narration.
(may be asking too much) but have you considered putting them all together into a loose change type documentary?
Like this - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

It's all wound down now, but they did tell me they monitor the forums and groups.


What is Loose Change all about?  I see they have huge viewing numbers?

Hedeho,
Interesting fact of the Jon Corner video of the McCann couple at the villa, both parents appeared to be wearing surgical gloves,Gerry,Boxes into the Renault Scenic and Kate handling washed clothes?