Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat

aiyoyo wrote:

ShuBob wrote:How many other tarmacs have been laid in PdL or just around the OC since Maddie's disappearance? What about new building projects? I think it's reached the stage where every single thing is viewed with suspicion as far as this case is concerned. I am guilty of that too. I think we sometimes need to step back and take a reality check.

Are you suggesting he's another team mccanns paid lackey to create confusion?
Otherwise, with no disrespect, I think you are deliberately missing the point altogether - we are not talking about any tarmac drive, and you know it.

Alright, even if we put aside Murat's paved drive, coincidentally put in after Maddie's fate, and after the dogs had been through the property, and let's just say another pure coincidence that the patch chosen for paving over happens to have something buried underneath. As I said earlier maybe it is just freaky coincidence and nothing else but it would still be good to know what laid underneath if only to put Stephen Birch's claim to bed once and for all. Especially when we consider the controversies surrounding Murat, bearing in mind also his unexplained mysterious meeting with a certain window-frames maker.

If we think about it - he was framed, he was going to sue them but that didnt happen, his phone forensics activity coincides with that of Gerry for a certain period, not forgetting his evolving statements which contained a series of lies - regardless of all these he came out supporting the mccanns despite the hell they put him through and despite Kate expressing desire to kill him..
.I think it's fair to say Murat's action or lack of against people who put him and his family to hell comes across as more suspicious than S. Birch's claim.

Alright, so Birch's unorthodox method does not sit well with many, but what has the authority got to lose if they do agree to dig up?

Portuguese refusal to dig is primarily because Murat's property had been given a thorough going over with machine and dogs, and nothing found, but IMO there's no harm going over old ground. It has been proven that sometimes what is missed first time round will or can be picked up on subsequent attempt. Not saying this will be the case here. That said, I think the opinions of independent experts from USA (if not to be disregarded totally) mean they add weights to this.

Tin hat on, it may not be beyond the realm of possibility that Maddie was moved there as final resting place, after dogs and machines had been and gone. Think about it - the safest place is often the most obvious. The mccanns are very confident (over confident in fact) that Maddie's remains will never be found, so I wont put it pass the lying and scheming pair of doctors of being capable of something as hideous as this. Personally I believe nothing is beyond the manipulative pairs when it comes to hiding their crime.

There are different types of ground penetrating radar for different purposes depending which field employs it.
Although we don't know the type of GPR Birch used, but logically speaking one would suppose he'd the sense to use a similar type used by law enforcement ie one that is suitable for detection of clandestine graves or burial evidence.

Actually, I don't know it. Otherwise, I wouldn't have posted what I did!

I have no idea what Birch's modus operandi is. For the authorities to take notice of his claims, he would have to provide them with more information than he's so far publicly given. If he's as evasive as he's been on this forum (assuming it's him), then I'm not surprised he isn't taken seriously.

Doh, you can't do right for doing wrong on here. First time he came on with his alleged real name everyone shouted troll and WUM and he was banned by admin. He has come on again with another name and the same happened. He would have been allowed to stay had his posts not been so abusive to members here. It is not ok to come on this forum and be abusive. He was asked a question from Jean but refused to answer, and yet in one of his first posts he said he was prepared to answer all questions, which happened last time.

Here are three of his posts......



Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat

Of course it's a shit article, it's written to counter the arrticle in teh Huffington Post where it is stated that I found MADELEINE under Murats rear GRAVEL driveway, why do you think Clarence Mitchell got the WASHINGTON post to quickly do the article after David Lohr wrote about me. Coincidence no.

And not 1 single person in this forum has had the brains to look carefully at my photo's in the Huffington Post US article and look at what's inside of the squares.Clearly this forums made up of a bunch of idiots.

Stephen D. Birch





AM I GOING TO ENJOY RUBBING YOUR NOSES IN IT WHEN MADDIE IS EXHUMED - DID DADDY BUY THAT COMPUTER FOR YOU - AND SNIFFER DOG, MAYBE YOU HAVE A FETTISH FOR SMELLS HAHAHA AND NOT THE CASE......



FOR ALL THE IDIOT ON THE FORUM, YOU BURY A CHILD THEN YOU BUILD A DRIVEWAY OVER HER - YOU DO NOT BUILD THE DRIVEWAY FIRST - WHERE YOU KIDS FROM - DOFVILLE


Aiyoyo I am surprised you would want to allow him to stay after such outburts. Had he been civil he would have stayed

I'm completely in agreement with you Candyfloss.

Anybody who behaved the way this person (whoever he is) has done would have been banned and rightly so.

Jean wrote:I'm completely in agreement with you Candyfloss.

Anybody who behaved the way this person (whoever he is) has done would have been banned and rightly so.

I agree too. He has been all over the shop with his theories.
First he claimed that Madeleine was buried in Murat's garden on the 3rd May.
The dogs and police did a complete inspection. Any new earth movements would have been noticed. That's elementary. Furthermore, people do garden works improving their lots frequently.
Maybe the garden works in Jenny Murat's house are legitimate, maybe not.
If his story had any substance he would have answered questions without fail.
I have just had to give a two hour interview with police over knowing someone involved in an incident.
It was easy. I answered every question, no err's, 'um's' or 'you know's' and gave as full a detail as I could to help them solve the crime.
If there is nothing to hide and no hidden agenda, answering questions fully and frankly, is a sign of exactly that, nothing to hide, no hidden agenda.
Mr. Birch may wish to come back to answer the simple questions that he was asked to answer.

You can't please us all candyfloss when opinions are split.

Pity is, in the time it took him to post abuse, he could have answered questions.

I have no idea whether it's the S Birch as seen on video, but by his style it was the same person who posted originally. I know nothing of Facebook, but presumably he could be checked out by that. I don't know why he didn't make his plea in the comments of Huff Post under the article, as there were over 500 comments, most in his favour. A lost opportunity methinks.

I've been more offended in the past. The worst being that I was a friend of the McCanns. Now that's what I call hurtful.

I think that you should consult Carter-Ruck over the last paragraph, Spaniel! I've heard that they are good libel lawyers......

I know that Leachate's and Stephen Birch's IP addresses and e-mails appear to link with those of the South African businessman but I'm finding it very hard to believe that he is the person who's been here.

Jean wrote:I think that you should consult Carter-Ruck over the last paragraph, Spaniel! I've heard that they are good libel lawyers......

I know that Leachate's and Stephen Birch's IP addresses and e-mails appear to link with those of the South African businessman but I'm finding it very hard to believe that he is the person who's been here.

How did you find out his ip's and emails? As they match, surely that's proof. Very different to the quiet man in the video though. I wouldn't like to share a house with him, it would be like treading on eggshells.

This has been confirmed by Admin.

I imagine that it is possible to hack into someone's computer so that you appear to be that person. Perhaps someone more technologically minded than me (that's most of the population then) will be able to confirm that. We don't need to know how it's done, just that it can be!

Jean wrote:This has been confirmed by Admin.

I imagine that it is possible to hack into someone's computer so that you appear to be that person. Perhaps someone more technologically minded than me (that's most of the population then) will be able to confirm that. We don't need to know how it's done, just that it can be!

Right, I see. Had the real S Birch been hacked the first time around, I doubt it would have happened again.

candyfloss wrote:Aiyoyo I am surprised you would want to allow him to stay after such outburts. Had he been civil he would have stayed

I repeat I said he could have asked nicely, and yes I also noticed he was loud and a tad abusive.
Maybe his frustration had turned into anger at the sort of treatment he got here.
In case you haven't noticed posters here were *not so pleasant or civil* to him either.
One poster insinuated he was perhaps asking for donation or digger. Another called him WUM, etc. and told him he should get lost or he should exit (something like that).

In his shoes, one imagines his frustration at not being taken seriously by the authority when he takes his work seriously, too seriously in fact.
And, when he approached the *most popular* (supposedly) forum, or rather the one that matters most, one with researchers working on the same theory as him (ie that maddie is dead), one with over a 1000 members and he asked for 50 volunteers to help post up a link to make it go viral, he got told * to f. off* - well to the same effect anyway.
Of course he's doing himself a disservice when he called people here idiots for not walking the talk.
He didn't have to resort to such rudeness but equally we were no better in accusing him of all sorts when he'd already said (IIRC) that he cant say much for fear of libel and anyone wanting answers is free to email him at the email addy he provided.

He is also not helping himself when he refused to answer questions.
Of his theory, apart from the consensus Maddie is dead, all the other bits in between were just a mess of jumbles that makes no sense. I find it intriguing that on one hand he thinks Maddie is dead and on the other hand he didn't think the mccanns were involved, that the DNA were planted by the PJ. So in other word one can only conclude he's thinking Murat had sole responsibility in Maddie demise. All very mind boggling I must say. Personally, I don't trust his claim to be correct, but equally since we don't know whether there are any hidden elements we can never be certain one way or another. Certainly his theories were fragmented and all over the shops that didn't help.
Since I trust the dogs implicitly I'm thinking the clandestine grave might have been created post the dogs. I know that does not reconcile with this May 3rd theory - unless he explains himself no one knows how he derived at his May 3rd theory.
Also, unless he put more meat on the bone he can bark all he wants people are going to dismiss him as attention seeker. But is he just that, an attention seeker? I don't know.

Look what happened to Ironside, she was a studious researcher who did great work, a true truthseeker, and in her critical period instead of support, detractors knifed her in the back, accusing her of attention seeking. And, the worst part is she knew what her critics accused her of, and that's perhaps the most hurtful thing anyone can inflict on her - worst pain than her illness inflict on her.

I am not saying we allow WUM to stay, au contraire in fact. But he's not a newbie proven as troll or wum or whatever; his work is known in the public, to the authority, and to the mccanns. In the true sense of what this forum stands for, and in relation to what his work stands for, I thought maybe we could have given him a chance instead of showing him the back door so hastily without warning as well.
Also I would imagine back stage workers have a way of verifying who he claimed he was from his ip

Oh well, it's all moot points now since he was kicked out. I am sure he's licking his wound somewhere in the corner. Or maybe he will play with his bone for a while and then lose interest in it. Who knows, but nonetheless it's a pity (IMHO anyway) that in a forum where truth matters we didn't give him a chance.

Making a quick exit now and wont look into this thread until I know I am safe.

Aiyoyo why wouldn't you be safe? People are entitled to opinions that is the idea of a forum Unfortunately in his earlier posts SB did the post and run thing, whereby he just posted his bit, and wouldn't answer any questions at all, even when asked on numerous occasions, and a specific thread was set up for him to answer questions. He just kept starting new threads and posting his bit and disappearing. He has just done it again making posts without much explanation, shouting at people READ IT, and on his 4th or 5th posts he called people of this forum idiots. There is no need for that at all. If he was so keen to get help from this forum perhaps a different attitude might go down better. He originally posted links to the Huff post etc., and then called people idiots, then followed on by asking for help, how can he expect help when he talks to members like that.

As I said, if he had a different attitude then there would have been no problem, but 4 posts which were abusive simply will not be tolerated here.

candyfloss wrote:Aiyoyo why wouldn't you be safe? People are entitled to opinions that is the idea of a forum Unfortunately in his earlier posts SB did the post and run thing, whereby he just posted his bit, and wouldn't answer any questions at all, even when asked on numerous occasions, and a specific thread was set up for him to answer questions. He just kept starting new threads and posting his bit and disappearing. He has just done it again making posts without much explanation, shouting at people READ IT, and on his 4th or 5th posts he called people of this forum idiots. There is no need for that at all. If he was so keen to get help from this forum perhaps a different attitude might go down better. He originally posted links to the Huff post etc., and then called people idiots, then followed on by asking for help, how can he expect help when he talks to members like that.

As I said, if he had a different attitude then there would have been no problem, but 4 posts which were abusive simply will not be tolerated here.

Aiyoyo, I was the one who asked whether he wanted donations or diggers and it seems I was half right on the latter. It was more a josh with candyfloss than with him, as cf had replied to his remark on digging.

He obviously wasn't offended by it, as he replied 30 minutes later, that he wanted the word spread via Facebook, which I couldn't help with either, not being a member.

You will see his abuse started on page 61. On P62, I stated that I recognised his frustration and anger but to calm down and that I wished him to continue posting here. Obviously I could see where it was heading but didn't want that to happen.

Although I was sorry to see him go, I can fully understand candyfloss, as all posters should be treated the same. You can imagine the backlash if someone else was banned and he wasn't for the same breach of rules.

Some decisions to ban, on the surface I find bizarre, but then I don't know the behind the scenes story. Such as using a banned ip, or a post by them may have been hastily removed to avoid litigation.

Admin and candyfloss give their time freely, we posters get to interact FOC on a subject we care about. Therefore I'm willing to accept whatever they decide. Their forum, not mine. Thankyou both. I don't post much at present but I read everyday.

On this occasion Aiyoyo, I feel wrongly blamed.

Look back and see for yourself. As you had no input whatsoever from when SB entered p61 until he was exited on p66 when you jumped in complaining, I don't see what your gripe is. Why didn't you defend him as I did? Too late now he's gone, no point blaming someone else.

Spaniel wrote:Aiyoyo, I was the one who asked whether he wanted donations or diggers and it seems I was half right on the latter. It was more a josh with candyfloss than with him, as cf had replied to his remark on digging.

He obviously wasn't offended by it, as he replied 30 minutes later, that he wanted the word spread via Facebook, which I couldn't help with either, not being a member.

You will see his abuse started on page 61. On P62, I stated that I recognised his frustration and anger but to calm down and that I wished him to continue posting here. Obviously I could see where it was heading but didn't want that to happen.

Although I was sorry to see him go, I can fully understand candyfloss, as all posters should be treated the same. You can imagine the backlash if someone else was banned and he wasn't for the same breach of rules.

Some decisions to ban, on the surface I find bizarre, but then I don't know the behind the scenes story. Such as using a banned ip, or a post by them may have been hastily removed to avoid litigation.

Admin and candyfloss give their time freely, we posters get to interact FOC on a subject we care about. Therefore I'm willing to accept whatever they decide. Their forum, not mine. Thankyou both. I don't post much at present but I read everyday.

On this occasion Aiyoyo, I feel wrongly blamed.

Look back and see for yourself. As you had no input whatsoever from when SB entered p61 until he was exited on p66 when you jumped in complaining, I don't see what your gripe is. Why didn't you defend him as I did? Too late now he's gone, no point blaming someone else.

Don't haggle with each other, it's just not worth it!

Hadn't it occurred to you that this was a ploy to have us reveal our identities, volunteering either to dig or to donate?

And a rather dumb one at that.

I see people are taking action against fb too, I'm sure TM are very much aware of it.

I'm sure a headline from the sun about the nasty trolls from JH spamming FB would really make their day.

candyfloss wrote:Aiyoyo why wouldn't you be safe? People are entitled to opinions that is the idea of a forum Unfortunately in his earlier posts SB did the post and run thing, whereby he just posted his bit, and wouldn't answer any questions at all, even when asked on numerous occasions, and a specific thread was set up for him to answer questions. He just kept starting new threads and posting his bit and disappearing. He has just done it again making posts without much explanation, shouting at people READ IT, and on his 4th or 5th posts he called people of this forum idiots. There is no need for that at all. If he was so keen to get help from this forum perhaps a different attitude might go down better. He originally posted links to the Huff post etc., and then called people idiots, then followed on by asking for help, how can he expect help when he talks to members like that.

As I said, if he had a different attitude then there would have been no problem, but 4 posts which were abusive simply will not be tolerated here.

Hi candyfloss, I do not post a lot, I tend to lurk

and learn from the many splendid posters that

avail of this forum. Every poster contributes like

an artist's brush stroke on a canvass, expressing

themselves with emotion, vigour and wisdom.

On occasion some might brush a different stroke,

but unless their intent is subversive or has the

aim to cause material harm to others, then IMO,

their rants and raves should be welcome and

cherished within the framework of this forum.

Call me an idiot, call me a fool, but it takes a

wise man/woman to act it.

Hi marxman,

I know what you mean, and yes everyone has different writiing styles and different opinions. But think, what would this forum be like, if posters started name calling ie calling members idiots etc. some members get offended and post their views and are appalled by the posts and threaten to leave, and so on and so on, until it ends up being a free for all and the whole thread gets derailed. It's very difficult, but you have to draw the line somewhere, and all we want is a nice friendly forum with good discussion.

If this was the real Stephen Birch, he must know that his findings are not being taken seriously by many people. This was his opportunity to respond in an adult fashion to the questions put to him. I made sure that I was very polite to him but he took no notice and responded only to other people in a most childish way.

He seems no different to me than the usual run-of-the-mill trolls whose sole aim is to wreak havoc and bring discredit to the forum.

For what it is worth I agree with both sides of this dispute! A real fence-sitter in fact! And while nobody wants abusive posters - on balance I feel it is a pity to have lost Mr Birch because, as someone else said, we got first hand information on his position and it might have been interesting, if nothing else, to have kept that source......

I suspect that he will be back sooner or later!

Hi all

I have read here for quite a while but only registered when I read the reports about Stephen Birch and his claims.

I really thought he might have been on to something (and do still wonder).

I am constantly surprised by the posters on here, I thought I was pretty good at reading people and was somewhat disappointed by the way Mr Birch was received the first time he was apparently here, but, I must admit, his behaviour was pretty poor on this recent batch of posts and the members here pretty much sussed him straight away

Some of what he has said in reports and interviews made me think he was on to something, but as I asked on this thread, the DNA suggestions and genuine questions asked by others were ignored. These questions would have most likely if answered, have given us an insight into his thinking and may have gotten more on his side, but with the reactions he gave, only alienated him more from the very people who should have been important to his aims.

I did recently start to wonder if it was again all part of the "plan", with the libel case timing and the reviews etc, maybe it could have been the right time for a body to be found, pointing the finger in a certain direction and clearing others, therefore eliminating the need for the continuation of the Reviews and any awkward conclusions.

I guess time may tell if there is any basis to his theories but if he is genuine, his approach is maybe part of the reason why his claims are seemingly being dismissed in official quarters, I personally just had a feeling that there may have been some truth behind his claims, how he got to the conclusions though, I really dont know and would have loved to have found out from him.

T. Bennet has compiled a long analysis article about Murat interviews with PJ. Very good analysis and detailed, worth for a read especially for those who have not yet read it.

In the article he exposes many inconsistencies, lies and changes of story many times from Murat; Which makes him even more a suspect in involvement of Madeleine disappearance.
Add to that the coincidental of his phone and Gerry's being "Off and On" in the same period of time.
Also to see how the PJ were very suspicious about Murat, even using the Ground penetrating radar, and now SB is bringing that back...
For all of those things, there must be something seriously wrong either with Murat or his driveway or both.

You can find the T.B. article at the link below, under "Articles". Its in 6 parts.
Well done for T.B. to take his time compiling the whole analysis.

Title of the article: The Mystery of Robert Murat: From Arguido to Applause

www.madeleinefoundation.org.uk

Or Those lies and inconsistencies in Murat interviews statement with the PJ, could it be because he was in someway involved in dirty business which he didn't want the PJ to know anything about it?

But to my opinion, that have a very low probability to be the case.

Looking at all this from a personal point of view - and I understand most will disagree - it strikes me that it was Stephen Birch here in both of his 'incarnations'. He was evasive and on several occasions rude, I know, but if people could perhaps take a moment to think about it all from his point of view. He came here with very controversial theories, many of which theories he left without explanations, but when pressed said that he had to be very careful what he said to avoid libel charges being brought against him. I think he said things like - work it out - it's pretty clear what I mean - but I cannot say it here - email me for answers to your questions.

I am not convinced that he is pointing at Murat. I think he thinks the McCanns buried Madeleine in Murat's garden - however audacious and impossible posters think such a theory might be. It is a free world and anyone is able to dismiss him as a complete 'nutter' with ludicrous theories. Others are equally at liberty to want to give the man a chance - if he could only control his outbursts and stop abusing people who don't agree with him. He strikes me as a man who does not find it easy to put into words what he is trying to say and a man who also has limited typing and spelling skills - all of which probably add to his frustration.

Speaking as the devil's advocate and trying to explain what I think his position now is - he has spent a huge amount of his own money pursuing his theory - he has risked being charged with trespass or more by the Murats - he has had very little or no support both from the Portuguese and British police/officials and the press. Now he has very little support from the very bunch of people he would have hoped and assumed were on his side - and with the 'posting messages on FB possibly' had a right to hope for that support.

The first time he was booted off for rudeness and nobody believing he was actually who he said he was. In his second incarnation he was received even less well. Now, speaking for myself only, if I had been Mr Birch I would have been hurt by the initial reactions (some of which were quite nasty in themselves). He is pedalling theories which, without further clarification, are meeting with hostility to his person and his theories - and he has reacted in a hurt and over-sensitive way to those criticisms - by becoming abusive himself. Personally I think his abject frustration at what has happened to him - following on from the two years of work and huge costs, culminating in his investigations whilst trespassing, have left him very vulnerable (obviously) and he has now 'retired, hurt' as it were - well, from his point of view he has - although we know he was shown the door.

I don't think he is a WUM. I don't think he is working on behalf of the McCanns. I don't think he has any agenda besides that of having the site dug up to prove him right - or wrong. In my view, given that he is certainly on the same 'side' as those of us here, it might have been better to try to welcome him as best we could.

If we get a third chance to do so he must be warned that rudeness to others is totally unacceptable - but that works both ways - and those here who also resorted to rudeness or sarcasm towards him are equally culpable. However many reasons there may be to doubt the whole thing, and consider it a charade, it is still a development which might be good to help him with - and then watch the outcome with interest - whichever way that outcome panned out.

I hope I can find a tin hat emoticon or else I am in for some abuse myself methinks! (No tin hat so don't shoot me down in flames)!

I don't think you'll need your tin hat winjoy.

The reason I was asking about the path construction is if you had a body buried in your garden, you'd hardly risk bringing in contractors to lay tarmac. SB has mentioned both tarmac and gravel, it's not libellous to answer the question.

May 3rd bothers me, as he seems to have accepted this as the date of death. How then did the dogs detect odour in the car?Had he suggested a burial after the garden and car were searched it would make more sense.

He says Murat is innocent, but then went on to hint that it was as a result of a meeting. So who buried the body and why did he lay the path?

Mr Birch has a problem in that he's made a statement without any evidence to back it up.

The one thing I agree with the Mccanns on, wouldnt give this guy the time of day personally. Has this guy actually come up with a theory on what happened to back up his body in the driveway claim?. If we starting this kind of thing seriously, we are in danger of all sorts of nutters claiming they know the location of a body! PDL will look like its got a serious mole problem!.

Winjoy - you won`t need a tin hat for my post.

I know there are many queries regarding SB`s theory but, after listening to him being interviewed on the radio and seeing his videos, I feel he is genuine (of course I could just be a gullible twit). Of course he has to be careful what he says so obviously cannot answer questions put to him. He could be on the right track but there are many inconsistencies. Just because some of his ideas seem way out, it doesn`t mean he`s not genuine.

One of his suggestions about the body being buried on the evening of May 3rd seems implausible to me as Jenny Murat was at home (with Robert supposedly) - wouldn`t she have heard the sound of spades digging away - it`s not something that can be done silently surely. Unless she`s hard of hearing and Robert turned the tele up loud. Supposedly they were sitting in the kitchen talking - is this true - and does the kitchen back onto said area?

Spaniel wrote:I don't think you'll need your tin hat winjoy.

The reason I was asking about the path construction is if you had a body buried in your garden, you'd hardly risk bringing in contractors to lay tarmac. SB has mentioned both tarmac and gravel, it's not libellous to answer the question.

Don`t see why not - surely its an excellent way to secure the burial site.

Even around property one is familiar with, digging a hole big enough and deep enough to bury a small animal for a mere 15 minutes in broad daylight will be difficult but in the dark of night with trees for company in an area unfamiliar to you, how will this be possible without the use of heavy equipment? What about the excess earth after filling the hole? Did the digger carry that with him/her? This is before one starts asking questions about the cadaver dog.

Makes no sense to me!

Woofer wrote:

Spaniel wrote:I don't think you'll need your tin hat winjoy.

The reason I was asking about the path construction is if you had a body buried in your garden, you'd hardly risk bringing in contractors to lay tarmac. SB has mentioned both tarmac and gravel, it's not libellous to answer the question.

Don`t see why not - surely its an excellent way to secure the burial site.

And what if the contractors happen upon the body? Is that really a risk worth taking?