Re: Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat

by Guest 08.07.12 12:25

Welcome back Me - no, not me, the other one - you haven't been around for a while but your expertise in dealing with trolls is likely to be in demand soon.

I must admit that I'm very doubtful about this story and that it will amount to anything but we can only wait and see what happens.

by Cheshire Cat 08.07.12 12:35

Me wrote:
Lady-Heather wrote:
Clouseau wrote:I believe 103% in the dogs.

A corpse was in the back of that hire car so are we expected to believe that the child was relocated there 20 odd days later with the whole worlds media looking on

i dont think so

I disagree with this based on Martin Grimes statement regarding transferral of odour: http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES_RIGATORY.htm

If Kate's clothes/cuddle cat/other items were found to have been in contact with a cadavar, which then subsequently contacted another surface (the car boot) it is plausible that the dogs were alerting to odour which had transferred from one of these items to another.

But there was genetic material found in the boot of the car, not just odour. This material gave the impression it had been frozen or placed on ice.

So it wasn't simply odour they discovered in the car.

And the odour was bad enough that the boot had to be aired for several nights. Therefore I suspect it was more than just odour that had been transferred.

by sweetex 08.07.12 13:08

Stephen Birch, the South African that guarantees to have found indicia that Madeleine McCann is buried in Robert Murat's garden, challenges the Briton: “If he has nothing to fear, he should allow the place to be excavated”

In statements made to Correio da Manhã, Birch ensures that, after the hole is made in the terrain, “everything would be restored” .

“That would clear all doubts”, argues the South African, that by means of a georadar machine detected variations in the subsoil in an area of Murat's garden, in Praia da Luz. The place is, according to Birch, in “the area of a cement pavement, that was added after the child's disappearance” in May 2007.

The challenge made by the South African businessman comes after the McCann family's lawyer defended that the authorities should investigate the leads provided by Birch. “The family does not investigate. What the family expects is for the police to take a position on this matter, to verify the site," said the lawyer Rogério Alves, who defends Kate and Gerry McCann, to CM.

Meanwhile, to substantiate his theory, Stepehn Birch uploaded a video where he appears analysing, with the georadar, the terrain of Murat's villa in Praia da Luz. The businessman shows, in the divulged footage, the results obtained by his private investigation and explains what led him to conclude that Maddie is buried in that garden. In the video shows an image obtained with the georadar at the terrain “where it is clear that there is a cavity, bellow the driveway, and in that cavity is an object”. The “image shows that the soil was disturbed with a spade”.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2012/07/south-african-businessman-challenges.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+JoanaMorais+%28Joana+Morais%29

There is also a report in the SA main Sunday paper. Basically just saying what we all know already. http://www.rapport.co.za/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/Kapenaar-seker-hy-vind-Maddie-se-lyk-20120707

ETA: In the SA paper the only thing I can see new is that he says he is afraid that someone is going to dig without authorities being present. He also says he is not aware of any reward.

by Meagain 08.07.12 13:15

Candyfloss.

For the same simple reason that you deleted a person's initials in some posts. Whilst I might hazard a few guesses as to who may have caused this, without it being known as a fact, I don't have a right to state it was them. My post was merely my take to a question posed by another poster. I stand by my post and guess that it is far more likely that it would not be the McCanns in this instance who have anything to gain from this man's claims.

K.

by Meagain 08.07.12 13:23

Taken from the report that Sweetex kindly posted:

"The place is, according to Birch, in “the area of a cement pavement, that was added after the child's disappearance” in May 2007."

and

"The “image shows that the soil was disturbed with a spade”."

I have to ask, how on earth do you disturb cement with a spade?

If he means the soil under the cement is disturbed, then it would be because you have to dig out and lay a layer of a sort of stoney mix which gets tamped down to give a firm base before the cement gets laid when laying a path or drive.

K.

by Guest 08.07.12 13:33

Meagain wrote:Candyfloss.

For the same simple reason that you deleted a person's initials in some posts. Whilst I might hazard a few guesses as to who may have caused this, without it being known as a fact, I don't have a right to state it was them. My post was merely my take to a question posed by another poster. I stand by my post and guess that it is far more likely that it would not be the McCanns in this instance who have anything to gain from this man's claims.

K.

How on earth would he gain? He was in charge of the investigation, and who oversaw the searching of the garden and stated in an article a just a couple of days ago they were searched thoroughly with the British dogs and forensic people and all the radar equipment, diggers etc. Can you explain how he could gain from this?

by Cristobell 08.07.12 13:37

I have just watched the Stephen Birch video, and can now see why there is reluctance to follow this through.

Herewith the link, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQhe05pkcYg

by sweetex 08.07.12 13:48

Cristobell wrote: I have just watched the Stephen Birch video, and can now see why there is reluctance to follow this through.

Herewith the link, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQhe05pkcYg

I watched it yesterday and that is when I became sceptical too. Unless he has other information we don't know about.

Just out of interest, the words "terrible deed" caught my eye. It is on the running text before the actual clip starts. It would be interesting to hear his theory. Or is he just talking about possible hiding of the corpse?

by buscadora Matilda 08.07.12 14:18

uppatoffe wrote,

"If he has been put upto this, I can't understand who by, as there do not seem to be any obvious winners. It has just brought the case back into the spotlight once again. It is unlikely to bring increased revenue for the fund, it does bring the focus back to Murat but Birch has been clear he is not involved."

Mr Murat and his family must wonder if this dreadful intrusion and interruption to their lives is ever going to end.[/quote]

uppatoffe,

I personally don`t believe this is ever going to end for the Murat family, unless the body will be found. To me it is the best oportunity for Murat to prove a second time that he is not in any way involved in this. Why not offer them to have that hole digged? That is all he needs to do before rumours start to spead again. With regard to the McCanns, I am also inclined to think that Birch points into the direction that the parents are actively involved, for sure that is something he cannot publicly admit before the body is found. I cannot really tell why, but I don`t think Birch is a fake or paid by the other side, to me he seems quite trustworthy.

Also, disposing of the body in a well-searched and thus absolutely dead certain location like the Murat property, to me that has cunning good wristband qualities. Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat - Page 13 3139096799

Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat - Page 13 3139096799

by Cristobell 08.07.12 14:40

sweetex wrote:
Cristobell wrote: I have just watched the Stephen Birch video, and can now see why there is reluctance to follow this through.

Herewith the link, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQhe05pkcYg

I watched it yesterday and that is when I became sceptical too. Unless he has other information we don't know about.

Just out of interest, the words "terrible deed" caught my eye. It is on the running text before the actual clip starts. It would be interesting to hear his theory. Or is he just talking about possible hiding of the corpse?

I would be interested to read his theory too Sweetex. The words 'terrible deed' could indicate inside knowledge, but I remain sceptical. At the start of the video, he is adamant that Madeleine was buried in that place, on the night of 3rd May. This simply doesn't fit with everything else we know about the case. The garden was extensively searched, the dogs did not alert, and indeed, there are two large dogs who live at the property.

For the PJ and the Portuguese people the case is closed, and in this present economic climate, it is understandable that they do not want to commit money and resources on a re-opening. I think the PJ will once more be hammered by the British media, but as we well know, spin and misinformation has dominated this investigation from the beginning.

by Snifferdog 08.07.12 14:46

I am disinclined to believe this.
Surely it is quite possible to have soil disturbance especially after the police have been digging up the garden in the first place, or the builders when setting out the path did not compact the earth properly, or a pocket created by rocks. After all how much space would a little body take up? The PJ I am sure would have found it when they first searched, after all, its purported to be so close to the surface not so? and there was no path then eh?

I think tis another Red Herring supposedly from sunny SA (sounds remote and exotic like Morocco etc. and belongs with Danie Krugels revelations. Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat - Page 13 3877000266

Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat - Page 13 3877000266

by **Nina** 08.07.12 14:56

sweetex wrote:Stephen Birch, the South African that guarantees to have found indicia that Madeleine McCann is buried in Robert Murat's garden, challenges the Briton: “If he has nothing to fear, he should allow the place to be excavated”

In statements made to Correio da Manhã, Birch ensures that, after the hole is made in the terrain, “everything would be restored” .

“That would clear all doubts”, argues the South African, that by means of a georadar machine detected variations in the subsoil in an area of Murat's garden, in Praia da Luz. The place is, according to Birch, in “the area of a cement pavement, that was added after the child's disappearance” in May 2007.

The challenge made by the South African businessman comes after the McCann family's lawyer defended that the authorities should investigate the leads provided by Birch. “The family does not investigate. What the family expects is for the police to take a position on this matter, to verify the site," said the lawyer Rogério Alves, who defends Kate and Gerry McCann, to CM.

Meanwhile, to substantiate his theory, Stepehn Birch uploaded a video where he appears analysing, with the georadar, the terrain of Murat's villa in Praia da Luz. The businessman shows, in the divulged footage, the results obtained by his private investigation and explains what led him to conclude that Maddie is buried in that garden. In the video shows an image obtained with the georadar at the terrain “where it is clear that there is a cavity, bellow the driveway, and in that cavity is an object”. The “image shows that the soil was disturbed with a spade”.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2012/07/south-african-businessman-challenges.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+JoanaMorais+%28Joana+Morais%29

There is also a report in the SA main Sunday paper. Basically just saying what we all know already. http://www.rapport.co.za/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/Kapenaar-seker-hy-vind-Maddie-se-lyk-20120707

ETA: In the SA paper the only thing I can see new is that he says he is afraid that someone is going to dig without authorities being present. He also says he is not aware of any reward.

A snip from your post,

The place is, according to Birch, in “the area of a cement pavement, that was added after the child's disappearance” in May 2007.

How can he possibly know that, that it was added after May 2007. I have areas of concrete base from all sizes and shapes and lengths of time and I couldn't say when they were laid other than looking at the billsfor materials and labour. They all look the same.

by monkey mind 08.07.12 15:03

Who benefits from this story? It’s interesting to look at some of what Birch says in the video http://expresso.sapo.pt/conheca-o-sul-africano-que-diz-ter-descoberto-restos-mortais-de-maddie=f737713

He says he drew various maps to determine ‘times and distances’ assumingly drawn from witness statements and ends up searching Murat’s place. Out of 360 degrees he ends up taking the trail that the T9 and JT’s ‘bundleman’ pointed everyone to. A man by his own admission with an eye for detail. Hmmm.

“I agree with Mr Amaral who put tremendous effort into this case, that Madeleine’s body went into the ground that same evening, in other words I don’t believe that Madeleine’s body was transported in a hire vehicle 23 days later....”

So the man who claims to have an eye for detail has just – in one unfinished sentence - put words into Amaral’s mouth and then totally dismissed some of the most compelling evidence in the case, that of Eddie and Keela and the genetic material found in the boot of that car. Of course GA has never said any such thing to my knowledge. On the contrary he claims the evidence lends towards a body being frozen and later transported in that hire car. Rather than agreeing with GA, he contradicts him completely.

“...Madeleine died on the 3rd of May 2007 and on that same evening her body went into the ground.....”

Thanks for that statement of *fact* Mr Birch. So in finishing the sentence above you now confirm that there is no need for us to bother looking earlier in the week then, no need to examine dodgy crèche records and phone calls, no need to question why a certain person appears to perhaps be signing in someone elses child from the day after arrival, a person whom he appears not to have known, or certainly not made known to the police. No need to question why no dna of M’s at all found in 5A, in other words, no evidence of a live child, M, being there. And as you don’t believe the dog’s evidence, I assume you dismiss the evidence of there being a dead body in that apartment, a dead body yet to be accounted for, just as lightly.

There’s more but I can’t be bothered. Who benefits. Well despite his claims of independence he appears to be supporting the McCann line, and when a body isn’t found there they will once again be victims chanting the mantra of no evidence to say she is dead. The man is either a bull headed fool or there is much more to this than meets the eye.

It’s too much of a coincidence that a South African psychic was trying to alert people to this almost exact same story 15 months ago just befor the bewk publishing and now, someone else in SA, seemingly independent, is coming up with the same tale. Got to be a connection there.

by Cheshire Cat 08.07.12 15:15

monkey mind wrote:Who benefits from this story? It’s interesting to look at some of what Birch says in the video http://expresso.sapo.pt/conheca-o-sul-africano-que-diz-ter-descoberto-restos-mortais-de-maddie=f737713

He says he drew various maps to determine ‘times and distances’ assumingly drawn from witness statements and ends up searching Murat’s place. Out of 360 degrees he ends up taking the trail that the T9 and JT’s ‘bundleman’ pointed everyone to. A man by his own admission with an eye for detail. Hmmm.

“I agree with Mr Amaral who put tremendous effort into this case, that Madeleine’s body went into the ground that same evening, in other words I don’t believe that Madeleine’s body was transported in a hire vehicle 23 days later....”

So the man who claims to have an eye for detail has just – in one unfinished sentence - put words into Amaral’s mouth and then totally dismissed some of the most compelling evidence in the case, that of Eddie and Keela and the genetic material found in the boot of that car. Of course GA has never said any such thing to my knowledge. On the contrary he claims the evidence lends towards a body being frozen and later transported in that hire car. Rather than agreeing with GA, he contradicts him completely.

“...Madeleine died on the 3rd of May 2007 and on that same evening her body went into the ground.....”

Thanks for that statement of *fact* Mr Birch. So in finishing the sentence above you now confirm that there is no need for us to bother looking earlier in the week then, no need to examine dodgy crèche records and phone calls, no need to question why a certain person appears to perhaps be signing in someone elses child from the day after arrival, a person whom he appears not to have known, or certainly not made known to the police. No need to question why no dna of M’s at all found in 5A, in other words, no evidence of a live child, M, being there. And as you don’t believe the dog’s evidence, I assume you dismiss the evidence of there being a dead body in that apartment, a dead body yet to be accounted for, just as lightly.

There’s more but I can’t be bothered. Who benefits. Well despite his claims of independence he appears to be supporting the McCann line, and when a body isn’t found there they will once again be victims chanting the mantra of no evidence to say she is dead. The man is either a bull headed fool or there is much more to this than meets the eye.

It’s too much of a coincidence that a South African psychic was trying to alert people to this almost exact same story 15 months ago just befor the bewk publishing and now, someone else in SA, seemingly independent, is coming up with the same tale. Got to be a connection there.

Superb piece of analysis.

"...despite his claims of independence he appears to be supporting the McCann line, and when a body isn’t found there they will once again be victims chanting the mantra of no evidence to say she is dead."

Spot on.

by uppatoffee 08.07.12 15:25

Seems a very odd way to go about getting this message across though. It undoubtably puts the spotlight back on the parents at the moment.

Also, the fact that Horrocks rubbish was reprinted literally the day before this story broke smacks of preemptive strike, which we have seen so often from the McCann camp. I do not think that this has come from them or Clarrie.

by sweetex 08.07.12 15:28

I agree, Amaral pointed out refrigeration because of the bodily fluids:

A: Yes. The bodily fluid in the car show that. If the body had been buried there would have been mummification. The fact that there were fluids points to refrigeration.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id173.html

I'm not sure if he supports the McCanns though. In the one report initials are mentioned of a Business connection/surfer friend of Gerry Mccann. He says the guy according the his passport photo could look like the photofit they did for Bundleman. Initially when I read that I thought mmmm a McCann supporter, but afterwards it sounded to me more to the likes of, possibly "a friend/connection" assisted them with the alleged concealment of the body.

by Guest 08.07.12 15:43

Cheshire Cat wrote:Superb piece of analysis.

"...despite his claims of independence he appears to be supporting the McCann line, and when a body isn’t found there they will once again be victims chanting the mantra of no evidence to say she is dead."

Spot on.

I would agree, if Birch or somebody like him had surfaced at a different time. But at the moment I think it suits them very much for the media to coming up with headlines suggesting Madeleine may not be alive - they can try to blame Mr Amaral for them. It's interesting how much Birch stresses he admires Mr Amaral and agrees with him that Madeleine's definitely dead etc. I don't think he would be doing that if he really was a supporter of Mr Amaral because he'd surely know how his words are giving ammunition to the lawyers.

So I think the arrival Birch suits them very much at this moment in time, whereas the exposure given to the report made by Horrocks doesn't suit them right now, and if every paper in Portugal and UK had it on the front page it definitely wouldn't suit them. Did they or CM make any comments about the Horrocks report? If all the UK and Portuguese papers are saying Madeleine is definitely alive that's not going to help them in court, and winning against Mr Amaral is everything to K&G I think. If they lose (again) how can they then prevent other writers publishing, or stop Mr Amaral publishing the book in English? In the US or Portugal or anywhere else, it doesn't have to be published in the UK, just somewhere in English.

by Cheshire Cat 08.07.12 16:06

tcat wrote:
Cheshire Cat wrote:Superb piece of analysis.

"...despite his claims of independence he appears to be supporting the McCann line, and when a body isn’t found there they will once again be victims chanting the mantra of no evidence to say she is dead."

Spot on.
I would agree, if Birch or somebody like him had surfaced at a different time. But at the moment I think it suits them very much for the media to coming up with headlines suggesting Madeleine may not be alive - they can try to blame Mr Amaral for them. It's interesting how much Birch stresses he admires Mr Amaral and agrees with him that Madeleine's definitely dead etc. I don't think he would be doing that if he really was a supporter of Mr Amaral because he'd surely know how his words are giving ammunition to the lawyers.

So I think the arrival Birch suits them very much at this moment in time, whereas the exposure given to the report made by Horrocks doesn't suit them right now, and if every paper in Portugal and UK had it on the front page it definitely wouldn't suit them. Did they or CM make any comments about the Horrocks report? If all the UK and Portuguese papers are saying Madeleine is definitely alive that's not going to help them in court, and winning against Mr Amaral is everything to K&G I think. If they lose (again) how can they then prevent other writers publishing, or stop Mr Amaral publishing the book in English? In the US or Portugal or anywhere else, it doesn't have to be published in the UK, just somewhere in English.

I agree it does suit them to have Birch in the headlines for the reasons you have explained. They may seek to blame Amaral for the headlines generated by Birch and Robert Murat may also blame Amaral ! RM is on record as saying Madeleine was abducted.

by Snifferdog 08.07.12 16:18

I wouldn't touch it either if I were the PJ. Seems to me to be that they are a playing a chess game. Stephen Birch hails from Cape Town not so? Isn't it such a coincidence that Rupert Murdoch owns the Argus in Cape Town, I am surprised it was not first splashed across the front of those papers, suppose that would be too close to home Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat - Page 13 94409

Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat - Page 13 94409

by Cristobell 08.07.12 16:19

tcat wrote:
Cheshire Cat wrote:Superb piece of analysis.

"...despite his claims of independence he appears to be supporting the McCann line, and when a body isn’t found there they will once again be victims chanting the mantra of no evidence to say she is dead."

Spot on.
I would agree, if Birch or somebody like him had surfaced at a different time. But at the moment I think it suits them very much for the media to coming up with headlines suggesting Madeleine may not be alive - they can try to blame Mr Amaral for them. It's interesting how much Birch stresses he admires Mr Amaral and agrees with him that Madeleine's definitely dead etc. I don't think he would be doing that if he really was a supporter of Mr Amaral because he'd surely know how his words are giving ammunition to the lawyers.

So I think the arrival Birch suits them very much at this moment in time, whereas the exposure given to the report made by Horrocks doesn't suit them right now, and if every paper in Portugal and UK had it on the front page it definitely wouldn't suit them. Did they or CM make any comments about the Horrocks report? If all the UK and Portuguese papers are saying Madeleine is definitely alive that's not going to help them in court, and winning against Mr Amaral is everything to K&G I think. If they lose (again) how can they then prevent other writers publishing, or stop Mr Amaral publishing the book in English? In the US or Portugal or anywhere else, it doesn't have to be published in the UK, just somewhere in English.

I have to say I too question every news report in this case, and wonder at the motivation behind it. I believe certain parties can be very devious. Do you, or anyone, recall the incident where the PJ detective, who gave evidence for GA, was smeared? Apparently he was caught in some honey trap and exchanging emails/facebook stuff with some pneumatic hooker. Doh! I can't remember his name at the mo, but will try to find it.

My gut feeling is that Birch is a lone, eccentric, but this case has so many twists and turns, we shall have to wait and see. Oh, to be a fly on the wall when the spin masters get together!

I don't understand why you think the Horrocks article supports them? You are probably way ahead of me, but I am reading it as supporting TM with this myth that she is alive and being treated like a princess.

by Zozo 08.07.12 16:38

Very bizarre claims of this man!
I'm wondering if he have invested a lot of money trying to locate the body, why on earth he don't take in charge to excavate himself that place ?
He can challenge and ask Murat or his mother to let him do excavation of course at his own cost.
What is claiming is reflected in one african saying which says "you have eaten the whole dead body and you left out finger nails"

by Snifferdog 08.07.12 16:41

We shall no doubt see that nothing will come of this. It will be interesting to see how they play this one off, especially if no one is willing to pick up the shovel. There is no more Rebekah Brooks to twist arms now but she may have been the Queenbee but certainly not the Kingpin. Best to just stick with the available evidence and not believe anything written by the hacks.

by Guest 08.07.12 16:52

Cristobell wrote:I have to say I too question every news report in this case, and wonder at the motivation behind it. I believe certain parties can be very devious. Do you, or anyone, recall the incident where the PJ detective, who gave evidence for GA, was smeared? Apparently he was caught in some honey trap and exchanging emails/facebook stuff with some pneumatic hooker. Doh! I can't remember his name at the mo, but will try to find it.

My gut feeling is that Birch is a lone, eccentric, but this case has so many twists and turns, we shall have to wait and see. Oh, to be a fly on the wall when the spin masters get together!

I don't understand why you think the Horrocks article supports them? You are probably way ahead of me, but I am reading it as supporting TM with this myth that she is alive and being treated like a princess.

Just because their argument against Amaral is that his book indicates Madeleine may be dead and that has stopped people searching for her. That's not their only argument but one of the most important ones I think. Horrocks has shown that plenty of people have taken no notice of him and still think she's alive. I know we all know many people do think she's still alive but if the Portuguese court believes far more people think like Horrocks and not many like Amaral then K&G can't claim his book did ever really stop anyone searching.

They are devious aren't they - one thing I think absolutely everyone will agree on (even Carter Ruck) is that K&G are master tacticians when it comes to reputation management.

I don't know who that PJ detective was. I'll blushing1

as much as he presumably did laughat

by Rob Royston 08.07.12 17:01

Woofer wrote:
sweetex wrote:
uppatoffee wrote:There was a ********* who was in the Tapas restaurant on the night of 3 May. He had a booking for 2 at 9pm.

First time I heard of him. Although I'm not clued up on all the guest lists etc.

@ShuBob - First time I too hear about Gerry surfing

There is a ************ who is into sailing, snowboarding and has a marketing business, see

http://uk.linkedin.com/XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
but might be a different person as he`s from Warwickshire.

I've removed the name from your link, but according to Genes Reunited a man with the same name got married in 1999 in Leicestershire ?????????

by sweetex 08.07.12 17:22

Rob Royston wrote:
Woofer wrote:
sweetex wrote:
uppatoffee wrote:There was a ********* who was in the Tapas restaurant on the night of 3 May. He had a booking for 2 at 9pm.

First time I heard of him. Although I'm not clued up on all the guest lists etc.

@ShuBob - First time I too hear about Gerry surfing

There is a ************ who is into sailing, snowboarding and has a marketing business, see

http://uk.linkedin.com/XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
but might be a different person as he`s from Warwickshire.

I've removed the name from your link, but according to Genes Reunited a man with the same name got married in 1999 in Leicestershire ?????????

I think someone else also picked up a Leicester connection. Everyone involved in this case is either from Leicester, moving to Leicester or got married there big grin

by Meagain 08.07.12 17:23

candyfloss wrote:
Meagain wrote:Candyfloss.

For the same simple reason that you deleted a person's initials in some posts. Whilst I might hazard a few guesses as to who may have caused this, without it being known as a fact, I don't have a right to state it was them. My post was merely my take to a question posed by another poster. I stand by my post and guess that it is far more likely that it would not be the McCanns in this instance who have anything to gain from this man's claims.

K.

How on earth would he gain? He was in charge of the investigation, and who oversaw the searching of the garden and stated in an article a just a couple of days ago they were searched thoroughly with the British dogs and forensic people and all the radar equipment, diggers etc. Can you explain how he could gain from this?

Sorry Candyfloss but I think you may have interpreted my suspicion wrongly. And I am stepping out of the let's guess Kololi's mind game right now.

I haven't asked what "suspects" other posters may have in mind and am not prepared to disclose who my money would be on when it comes to specific names as nothing is proven yet. We do not currently even know for sure whether the guy is a total crackpot or not so the best that any of us can manage is a few guesses based upon what is in the public domain and with two f... off great guard dogs in the grounds of that villa, my own thoughts rest with this being a stitch up by somebody who thinks they might benefit from it and that might even be Mr Birch himself - I don't know.

by Cristobell 08.07.12 17:26

tcat wrote:
Cristobell wrote:I have to say I too question every news report in this case, and wonder at the motivation behind it. I believe certain parties can be very devious. Do you, or anyone, recall the incident where the PJ detective, who gave evidence for GA, was smeared? Apparently he was caught in some honey trap and exchanging emails/facebook stuff with some pneumatic hooker. Doh! I can't remember his name at the mo, but will try to find it.

My gut feeling is that Birch is a lone, eccentric, but this case has so many twists and turns, we shall have to wait and see. Oh, to be a fly on the wall when the spin masters get together!

I don't understand why you think the Horrocks article supports them? You are probably way ahead of me, but I am reading it as supporting TM with this myth that she is alive and being treated like a princess.
Just because their argument against Amaral is that his book indicates Madeleine may be dead and that has stopped people searching for her. That's not their only argument but one of the most important ones I think. Horrocks has shown that plenty of people have taken no notice of him and still think she's alive. I know we all know many people do think she's still alive but if the Portuguese court believes far more people think like Horrocks and not many like Amaral then K&G can't claim his book did ever really stop anyone searching.

They are devious aren't they - one thing I think absolutely everyone will agree on (even Carter Ruck) is that K&G are master tacticians when it comes to reputation management.

I don't know who that PJ detective was. I'll as much as he presumably did

Ahh, got it now, you are indeed ahead of me. TM were in a bit of a Catch 22 there, they have to maintain the illusion of mass support [in the belief MM is alive] but that support, negates their claim for damages. This case certainly exercises the brain. They are indeed master tacticians, and it seems as though they have set a framework for parental behaviour in missing child cases worldwide. First, lawyer up, second print t-shirts. In fairness, the precedent may have begun in the US, in the Jonbenet case, though I don't think they had the wristbands and t-shirts - they were very rich.

The PJ detective is a witness for GA. To be fair, I wasn't that impressed, it pretty much came under the Smear Your Opponent, Chapter One of The Idiots Guide to Spin, but in fairness, the oldies are often the goodies. Will have to find his name now.

by Woofer 08.07.12 17:32

Rob Royston wrote:
Woofer wrote:
sweetex wrote:
uppatoffee wrote:There was a ********* who was in the Tapas restaurant on the night of 3 May. He had a booking for 2 at 9pm.

First time I heard of him. Although I'm not clued up on all the guest lists etc.

@ShuBob - First time I too hear about Gerry surfing

There is a ************ who is into sailing, snowboarding and has a marketing business, see

http://uk.linkedin.com/XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
but might be a different person as he`s from Warwickshire.

I've removed the name from your link, but according to Genes Reunited a man with the same name got married in 1999 in Leicestershire ?????????

Cheers RR - I thought it had already been deleted, probably best to delete names. Yes, it appears to be the same couple on checking marriage and electoral records.

by Woofer 08.07.12 17:36

It`s going to sound a bit lame if the McCanns try to say Goncalo`s book prevented people from searching for Maddie, when this guy Birch and his team has gone to so much trouble to look.

Can`t work out if his efforts are helping or hindering GA`s case.

by Newintown 08.07.12 17:44

candyfloss wrote:Maddie: South African businessman launches challenge to Robert Murat

Stephen Birch, South African businessman, says Maddie (pictured) is buried in the backyard of Murat and challenges Britain to do excavation

[url=http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/detalhe/noticias/exclusivo-cm/ele-que-deixe-escavar-o-local-com-video

http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/detalhe/noticias/exclusivo-cm/ele-que-deixe-escavar-o-local-com-video[/quote[/url]]

Who in their right mind would pay out £40,000 for a machine to detect a body when it is highly likely nothing may be found? Did Birch ask the suppliers of the machine if he could have his money back if he didn't find anything, or has it got more money then sense and can throw £40,000 down the drain, if nothing was found.

Going by the photos of him with his "machine", he could have been in anyone's garden, not even in PDL.

It's very suspicious as to who is behind this nonsense.

Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat - Page 13 234726

Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat - Page 13 234726

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