Few questions

by jarof 10.05.12 22:58

If the parents did do a cover up, just wondering when you think Madeleine died? If she died before they went out to dinner on May 3rd, then i don't see why they wouldn't report it if it was an accident because they were there, what reason would they need to do a cover up? If Madeleine died when her parents were out to dinner and we believe the order of the checks done, wouldn't that mean only Gerry hid the body without Kate knowing anything since she was the last to check?

Also is there anyone that believes she was taken?

by uppatoffee 10.05.12 23:22

jarof wrote:If the parents did do a cover up, just wondering when you think Madeleine died? If she died before they went out to dinner on May 3rd, then i don't see why they wouldn't report it if it was an accident because they were there, what reason would they need to do a cover up? If Madeleine died when her parents were out to dinner and we believe the order of the checks done, wouldn't that mean only Gerry hid the body without Kate knowing anything since she was the last to check?

Also is there anyone that believes she was taken?

I have not seen any credible evidence to suggest there was an abduction.

If you look back at the first interviews when everything should be fresh in the mind, the key thing for me was the shutter story. It's a complete lie. Disproved by the resort manager. I can understand timings being out and stories being muddled in terms of who did what visit when, but saying shutters had been jemmied when they clearly hadn't, suggests some kind of cover up. Otherwise, why say it?

by saltnpepper 11.05.12 0:16

I dont know but an indicator for me is the night Mrs Fenn heard crying(tuesday 1st may)Kates phone was busy at the same time & very early the next morning,also the tuesday night the quiz mistress-forget her name, was called over to the table where you could imagine the men would of probalbly paid her a fair bit of attention & of course all these phonecalls/texts were deleted,ive believe that Mrs fenn heard Kate crying "Maddie Maddie" hence the denial by the Mccanns that they called Madeleine this nickname,Gerry once Mentioned in his blog,i think after being made arguido(suspect)...person of interest [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] about what people can do in a moment of madness

by jarof 11.05.12 1:20

uppatoffee wrote:
jarof wrote:If the parents did do a cover up, just wondering when you think Madeleine died? If she died before they went out to dinner on May 3rd, then i don't see why they wouldn't report it if it was an accident because they were there, what reason would they need to do a cover up? If Madeleine died when her parents were out to dinner and we believe the order of the checks done, wouldn't that mean only Gerry hid the body without Kate knowing anything since she was the last to check?

Also is there anyone that believes she was taken?

I have not seen any credible evidence to suggest there was an abduction.

If you look back at the first interviews when everything should be fresh in the mind, the key thing for me was the shutter story. It's a complete lie. Disproved by the resort manager. I can understand timings being out and stories being muddled in terms of who did what visit when, but saying shutters had been jemmied when they clearly hadn't, suggests some kind of cover up. Otherwise, why say it?

If someone came in the patio doors, picked up Madeleine and walked out the front door (i don't think it was locked) would there be much evidence though?

Yeah i don't get the window thing either. If she thought the shutters couldn't be opened from the outside, then maybe thats why she assumed they were forced open and thats why she said it?

by jd 11.05.12 2:26

Quote Dianne Webster:

"She [DW] did not notice, while at the entrance to the room, if the window was or was not open.
- However, she wants to stress that immediately afterwards, she went outside the apartment in order to ascertain whether she would be able to raise the shutters by hand from the outside, and found it was impossible for her. Consequently she infers that at the time of her arrival at the apartment the window would have been closed.

Quote: Jose Maria Batista Roque (GNR)

When questioned about the windows in the bedroom, he only remembers that the window in the girl's bedroom was closed with the blind raised up the space of the width of a hand. He does not remember the existence of curtains. The father indicated, through the translator, alleging that when the disappearance was discovered, the windows and blinds were open.

Does anyone seriously question that the shutters were open? It is IMPOSSIBLE to jemmy them without causing PERMANENT substantial damage beyond any repair that would be here for all to see forever. I know 100% from my own experience and testing, these shutters are nothing like in the UK. This is what The PJ found:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by jd 11.05.12 3:04

Yeah i don't get the window thing either. If she thought the shutters couldn't be opened from the outside, then maybe thats why she assumed they were forced open and thats why she said it?

kate did not assume, we had the 'reconstruction' from kate on TV that the apartment was whooshing with cold air where she acted the part....The thing is, her friend Matt Oldfield was in the apartment 30 mins before.... and saw and felt absolutely nothing....This was 15 mins 'after' the jane tanner sighting.. A term comes to mind.... 'go figure'

by jd 11.05.12 3:09

If someone came in the patio doors, picked up Madeleine and walked out the front door (i don't think it was locked) would there be much evidence though?

According to Donal McIntyre, the abductor 'cleaned' the apartment before leaving with Maddie (I shall refrain from laughing hysterically)

by Guest 11.05.12 6:55

Well hair from Matthew, Russell and David Payne were found in the hall and living room of 5a and they only supposedly visited the apartment to do brief checks on 3 may . David is practically bald and he managed to shed some hair so no reason why an "abductor " should have not done the same. Would be interesting to know where in the living room the hairs were found... Wonder if it was around the sofa...

Need to scroll down to pages 2422-2439 ,the results section number 4 There is a table showing where matches were found.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by russiandoll 11.05.12 10:16

Stewie wrote:Well hair from Matthew, Russell and David Payne were found in the hall and living room of 5a and they only supposedly visited the apartment to do brief checks on 3 may . David is practically bald and he managed to shed some hair so no reason why an "abductor " should have not done the same. Would be interesting to know where in the living room the hairs were found... Wonder if it was around the sofa...

Need to scroll down to pages 2422-2439 ,the results section number 4 There is a table showing where matches were found.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

will look for quote, but read recently in mccann files DP stating, I think in his RI ,that during that week he visited 5a approx half a dozen times. The detective had heard him give a rather detailed description of the McCann apartment.

by FH 11.05.12 13:00

jarof wrote:If the parents did do a cover up, just wondering when you think Madeleine died? If she died before they went out to dinner on May 3rd, then i don't see why they wouldn't report it if it was an accident because they were there, what reason would they need to do a cover up? If Madeleine died when her parents were out to dinner and we believe the order of the checks done, wouldn't that mean only Gerry hid the body without Kate knowing anything since she was the last to check?

Also is there anyone that believes she was taken?

well why would you cover anything up - because you are culpable in some way.

They might cover it up because they were afraid they would be charged with neglect - In the UK, while it is not illegal to leave a child of any age on it's own, if harm comes to it as a result of being left, then you will be charged as unfit parents, perhaps go to prison and probably have your remaining children taken from you, not to mention being struck off. As Dr's they would know this only too well. So reporting a tragic accident could have major consequences.

They might cover it up because they could not afford to let the body be autopsied, as it would show some other form of abuse - sedation, or drugs in her system for example. Which again would result in prosecution, perhaps prison, twins being taken from them, struck off.......

Many people believe she was taken, but probably not on this forum.

by **PeterMac** 11.05.12 13:11

re shutters.
Please go back to the video of me opening them from the outside.
They go about three quarters of the way up and then stick, and when you let go they come crashing down.
There is a thread on it.

by jarof 11.05.12 14:47

jd wrote:Quote Dianne Webster:

"She [DW] did not notice, while at the entrance to the room, if the window was or was not open.
- However, she wants to stress that immediately afterwards, she went outside the apartment in order to ascertain whether she would be able to raise the shutters by hand from the outside, and found it was impossible for her. Consequently she infers that at the time of her arrival at the apartment the window would have been closed.

Quote: Jose Maria Batista Roque (GNR)

When questioned about the windows in the bedroom, he only remembers that the window in the girl's bedroom was closed with the blind raised up the space of the width of a hand. He does not remember the existence of curtains. The father indicated, through the translator, alleging that when the disappearance was discovered, the windows and blinds were open.

Does anyone seriously question that the shutters were open? It is IMPOSSIBLE to jemmy them without causing PERMANENT substantial damage beyond any repair that would be here for all to see forever. I know 100% from my own experience and testing, these shutters are nothing like in the UK. This is what The PJ found:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Didn't Diane say she she tried to open the shutters herself and it got twisted, so did Gerry try to open them. Why is it only Kate's prints they found on them?

by friedtomatoes 11.05.12 19:40

How did dianne webster find it impossible to open the shutters from the outside when petermac i belive with pat brown here just rolled them up like honey?

confused

by worriedmum 11.05.12 20:02

Well we don't know what has happened to those shutters in the intervening years, for a start, do we?

by fleabag 11.05.12 20:12

PeterMac wrote:re shutters.
Please go back to the video of me opening them from the outside.
They go about three quarters of the way up and then stick, and when you let go they come crashing down.
There is a thread on it.

I'm not sure I understand this - what is the point of having shutters that don't stay up?

by nomendelta 11.05.12 20:17

Peter will no doubt elaborate but surely he's speaking only what happened when he opened them from the OUTSIDE. From the inside you would pull the cord which retracts into a unit and holds the blind up.

by fleabag 11.05.12 20:21

nomendelta wrote:Peter will no doubt elaborate but surely he's speaking only what happened when he opened them from the OUTSIDE. From the inside you would pull the cord which retracts into a unit and holds the blind up.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] I feel a bit silly now! That makes perfect sense, thank you!

by jmac 11.05.12 21:37

There was a bed beneath the window. An abductor could not have climbed in or out the window without leaving a footprint or marks of some kind on the window sill. No traces were found. The abduction hypothesis is highly suspicious and it is the parents who keep pushing it, without a shred of physical evidence.

The only evidence there is comes from their friend, Jane Tanner, who claimed to see the abductor but whose statements have changed so many times that it is difficult to keep count of them.

by tuom 11.05.12 21:50

jmac wrote:There was a bed beneath the window. An abductor could not have climbed in or out the window without leaving a footprint or marks of some kind on the window sill. No traces were found. The abduction hypothesis is highly suspicious and it is the parents who keep pushing it, without a shred of physical evidence.

The only evidence there is comes from their friend, Jane Tanner, who claimed to see the abductor but whose statements have changed so many times that it is difficult to keep count of them.

jmac ....I agree with you on this involvement of JT , it does seem to be the only way she "got" involved , IMO something got out of hand and as they say in the heat of the moment ! I also feel that KMC is far removed from the meek creature we see in public [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by jmac 11.05.12 22:09

In their first statements Kate and Gerry misled the police and implied that the apartment was locked. After they realised that the `gemmied and broken shutters` idea had not held up to scrutiny they changed their statements and said the patio door was left unlocked.

This meant that the alleged abductor could have sneaked in through the patio door. Only Gerry was standing outside talking to his tennis acquaintance at the time...

And so it goes on. Nothing adds up, and they keep changing their statements to fit the abduction hypothesis...

by friedtomatoes 12.05.12 23:24

jarof wrote:If the parents did do a cover up, just wondering when you think Madeleine died? If she died before they went out to dinner on May 3rd, then i don't see why they wouldn't report it if it was an accident because they were there, what reason would they need to do a cover up? If Madeleine died when her parents were out to dinner and we believe the order of the checks done, wouldn't that mean only Gerry hid the body without Kate knowing anything since she was the last to check?

Also is there anyone that believes she was taken?

Wednesday as day of death seems to have a lot of back up info.