Re: The Creche Sheets

by uppatoffee 14.03.12 10:51

It doesn't look like the DW on Diane's 4 May statement Stella. I think it is much more like David Payne's signature on his statement.

by Guest 14.03.12 12:43

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This is Dianne's signature from her 11th May statement. It is the same as on the 4th.

So if the DW signature we see in the Jellyfish creche sheets is not Dianne Webster, who is it?

Thanks uppatoffee for the heads up. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Guest 14.03.12 12:47

alison wrote:Stella - I am sure you will have looked at this already, but what would be interesting to see is when ( if at all) GMc or KMc did not use elevated minutes and whether the times they did so might be a cause of interest. For example, what was the pattern on Monday 30th when Madeleine was signed in and out so quickly.

Now that is a very good idea, leave it with me. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Guest 14.03.12 12:53

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Good call alison. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Kate McCann allegedly signs her in at 15.15 on the 30th. Minutes NOT elevated.

by Guest 14.03.12 12:57

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Kate McCann allegedly signs her out 15 minutes later, this time the minutes are elevated. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Who would do something quite different 15 minutes later ?

Will have to look at all the other days now. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Guest 14.03.12 13:40

Something must have happened on the 30th. Something that happened just after Madeleine was signed in and out again after only 15 minutes and it looks like Kate never attended the creche ever again, despite someone using her name.

Kate McCann signature analysis

29^th

9.45 not elevated

17.30 not elevated

30^th

15.15 not elevated

15.30 elevated

1^st

Kate never attends

2^nd

14.45 elevated

17.30 not elevated but uses KM Healey instead

3^rd

12.25 elevated

14.50 elevated

17.30 not elevated I believe, but could be wrong. It looks different to all the rest

by Guest 14.03.12 13:55

Something's up with Gerry's signature also. It looks like he was having an off day on the 1st and someone helped him out.

Gerry McCann signature analysis

29^th

12.15 minutes elevated

14.45 minutes elevated

30^th

9.30 minutes elevated

12.10 minutes elevated

1^st

9.30 minutes not elevated

12.20 minutes elevated

14.30 minutes not elevated

2^nd

9.20 minutes elevated

3^rd

9.10 minutes elevated

by Guest 14.03.12 14:00

We are right back to that old nutmeg. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

If you are signing a child in on someone elses behalf. With their permission of course, stipulated in the rules, why would you use another persons name and signature to do so ?

If you can answer that one, you can start to unlock the creche mystery.

by Guest 14.03.12 16:07

Stella wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

As two of the Jellyfish creche sheets have been witheld, we only have 3 days where the Payne's eldest attends creche.

She only ever attended in the mornings, this is for the 30th, 1st and 2nd.

Who do the signatures belong to? The last few look like DW, is that Dianne Webster?

Does he do minutes elevated and rising up?

From Dianne Webster’s Rogatory Interview:

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DW: "We'd meet, the children used to have high tea I think I don't know whether it was about five o' clock which was done again in the Tapas area, there was an area for the children to have their high tea which was provided by Mark Warner. So yeah I was there several times when they were all having high tea and parents were there as well, or at least one parent, ..."

PC: "Did you do any of the taking or fetching from the kids clubs with Lily and Scarlet?"

DW: "No I never took them, I never I can't remember you see."

PC: "Okay."

DW: "I might, I might have picked them up one day but I think that Dave would have been there as well I don't know, I just don't remember."

by Guest 14.03.12 16:11

Is that David Payne then, who is writing his minutes elevated ?

by Guest 14.03.12 16:19

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From David Payne's 4th May statement, the top signature I would have thought.

Nothing like any of the above !!

by Guest 14.03.12 20:35

Stella wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

From David Payne's 4th May statement, the top signature I would have thought.

Nothing like any of the above !!

It wasn't fiona's signature on the creche sheets either - she and dianne webster sign in/out lily, sean and amelie on 4 may jellyfish sheet and their signatures look nothing like the ones against lily on the earlier days.

This is fiona's signature from the 4 may statements..
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by uppatoffee 14.03.12 20:41

Stella wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

From David Payne's 4th May statement, the top signature I would have thought.

Nothing like any of the above !!

Oh! That wasn't what I saw at all. I'll see if I can post the image I was thinking of.

by uppatoffee 14.03.12 20:58

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I looked at the initials at the top of the first page of the interview. I think that the larger of the three initials is DAP. It looks like the first three letters of the signature on the creche records - The style of the D and A are quite distinctive.

by uppatoffee 14.03.12 21:18

On 1st May page, there are three groups in the Jellyfish page. Lucy in the bottom group is the younger Totman child, and her father (?) has signed her out with elevated numbers too.

by russiandoll 15.03.12 9:53

Hope I haven't taken this in a distracting direction when not significant, I just thought after reading the nannys' differing comments re the pick up of the twins [ one saying Maddie would come with a parent and be very happy to see them]...to take a look at the jellyfish sheets, seeing who was signing for twins and when as a parent can',t be in 2 places at one time.
Then noticed the odd lack of info on the sheets. What would have happened if one of the many children lacking info had an accident, was taken ill ? How were parents to be contacted? And lack of consistency in record keeping from the same nannies puzzled me.

And the elevated minutes of DP. A scientist like Gerry and it is only on maths and science notations that I have seen any numbers elevated after a larger number.

by russiandoll 15.03.12 10:01

Stella wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

As two of the Jellyfish creche sheets have been witheld, we only have 3 days where the Payne's eldest attends creche.

She only ever attended in the mornings, this is for the 30th, 1st and 2nd.

Who do the signatures belong to? The last few look like DW, is that Dianne Webster?

Does he do minutes elevated and rising up?

I have just checked the Jellyfish sheets against my original post re- dates, times and signatures.
Lily is named near the twins every afternoon from 29th April-3rd May .

by Guest 15.03.12 11:15

She is on the list Russiandoll, but she never attends in the afternoon. I can only think the Payne's must have booked/paid for her to attend both sessions, but changed their minds some time later.

Lily Payne Jellyfish attendance

29^th am WITHELD

29^th pm No

30^th am Yes (9.20-12.45)

30^th pm No

1^st am Yes (9.25-12.20)

1^st pm No

2^nd am Yes (?? – 12.40)

2^nd pm No

3^rd am WITHELD

3^rd pm No

by Guest 15.03.12 11:22

A child goes missing in another creche group and the PJ withold two sheets from this one, why?

I can only think there must have been something very significant happening in this creche group, that is connected to the twins or the only other tapas child there.

by bobbin 15.03.12 11:55

Definitely something very bizarre here.
We've always been looking at Jane Tanner's daughter as a possible stand in, and not really focussed on the Paynes' daughter.

How do we know she didn't attend in the afternoons ? Upon whose word or rogatory statements would we have come to believe that Lily did not attend p.m. sessions at the creche and yet was apparently booked in.

Can the dogs sort out the difference between rats and fish, because I smell a rat and this all smells fishy.

by russiandoll 15.03.12 11:58

interesting info re Lily on records but not attending......where was this that I missed it, would be glad if you could point me to it as it is v interesting.

also interesting and bizarre.the great efficiency in pre-recording Lily's name for all those sessions she was due to attend, then did not........and then inefficiently not deleting her name to keep records correct. Are all the other children without info non- attendees then, pre- booked but then absent? very odd.

thank God there wasn't a fire when they would have needed a head-count.

by Guest 15.03.12 12:00

I think I have seen in Fiona's statement that she did not attend in the afternoons.

by russiandoll 15.03.12 12:02

There should be a nanny statement re this..maybe not if they were only interested in info re attendance of McCann children.

by Guest 15.03.12 12:33

From Fiona Payne’s Rogatory Interview:

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“All the kids were booked into their relevant kids clubs, Scarlet was the only one that was in the baby creche and that was kind of next door to where Madeleine and Ella were in the sort of older kids club and that was near the main reception. So after lunch I generally, after breakfast, sorry, I generally walked with Scarlet to the baby club, with or without either Jane, Russell, Kate, I'd sometimes meet Kate or Gerry dropping Madeleine off there, and then Dave would take Lily over to the kids club which was back near the, behind the Tapas Bar area".

“I think for us we were, all our children were still having sort of afternoon sleeps, so we'd stay at the apartment after lunch, get the kids down and just sit on the balcony and read while the kids had a nap and then, when they got up we'd, go for a walk to the beach or play by the pool, but they just went to the kiddie care for the morning only (inaudible)”.

by Guest 15.03.12 12:39

uppatoffee wrote:[img][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.][/img]

I looked at the initials at the top of the first page of the interview. I think that the larger of the three initials is DAP. It looks like the first three letters of the signature on the creche records - The style of the D and A are quite distinctive.

Initials on a document to state you have witnessed that page, would not be the same as a signature. But those marks are still interesting all the same.

by Guest 15.03.12 12:47

Stella wrote:From Fiona Payne’s Rogatory Interview:

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“All the kids were booked into their relevant kids clubs, Scarlet was the only one that was in the baby creche and that was kind of next door to where Madeleine and Ella were in the sort of older kids club and that was near the main reception. So after lunch I generally, after breakfast, sorry, I generally walked with Scarlet to the baby club, with or without either Jane, Russell, Kate, I'd sometimes meet Kate or Gerry dropping Madeleine off there, and then Dave would take Lily over to the kids club which was back near the, behind the Tapas Bar area".

“I think for us we were, all our children were still having sort of afternoon sleeps, so we'd stay at the apartment after lunch, get the kids down and just sit on the balcony and read while the kids had a nap and then, when they got up we'd, go for a walk to the beach or play by the pool, but they just went to the kiddie care for the morning only (inaudible)”.

Looking at this statement under a magnifying glass.

It would seem that most mornings David Payne was in the same vicinity as Gerry and Russell. Near the main reception.

Then Dave would "take Lily over to kids club". Again exactly where Gerry would be.

Did these two do the drop-offs together by any chance?

by bobbin 15.03.12 12:51

on the 'child subsitute thread' Stella and Tigger response is about whether Gerry or Kate was the big shaker.

Perhaps we should be looking more at how entwined the paynes have been in all of this.

They have been the really evident of all the group. Payne, organising the holiday, staying on, telling Yvonne ? the social worker lady, to push off.

Fiona is busy flannelling about Maddie and Ella, and as said above, how efficient they were to book in advance but not efficient enough to un-book at the event. Yes, lucky there was not a fire or accident, with head-counts so confused....hang on a minute, perhaps there was an accident !

by Guest 15.03.12 12:55

And who else was involved in the Gasper statement? Gerry and David Payne.

by Ribisl 15.03.12 14:19

The twins are signed in at 14.45 by Kate. Minutes elevated.

Both Kate and Gerry’s mobile numbers are left. Stacey & Shinead - 3 children.

Lucy Totman is signed in at 14.50. Minutes elevated.

Madeleine is signed in at 14.50 by Kate. Minutes elevated.

Ella is signed out at 4.30 by ‘Cat nanny’.

The twins are signed out as 17.25 by Kate. Minutes elevated.

Lucy Totman is signed out at 17.30. Minutes elevated.

Madeleine is signed out at 17.30 by Kate.

Sorry if this has been gone over before but I think trying to establish the correct sequence of events in the afternoon of the 3rd is crucial to understanding what might have happened to Madeleine. The above record directly contradicts Kate's statement in her book in which she claims she was running (again!) while Gerry picked up the twins and Madeleine from the creche. She then found them having tea in the Tapas area shortly after 17.30. Afterwards Madeleine had to be carried back to the apartment because she was 'so pale and worn out'.

Maybe something happened to her earlier that afternoon but the bit about Madeleine looking 'so pale and worn out' could be closest to the truth they would ever admit publicly. Lies are usually built on some grains of truth I believe.

by Guest 15.03.12 14:56

Maybe Kate's book is less than truthful. I somehow doubt that the book exercise will help us get to the truth.

You might think it is not important to look over the whole week, but there is more happening earlier that week to suggest an early time of death, than there is after 5.30pm on the 3rd. This is precisely why the Oporto team are focusing once again on the call activity, in particular the deleted calls and voicemails.