Re: The Creche Sheets

by Guest 15.03.12 15:28

I think this simple little exercise, by looking at the handwriting styles for Kate, kind of suggests that there was a long period of her absence from Madeleine's creche group. I cannot believe that anyone would write a time in two different ways. Is there anything prior to 2007, where Kate would record hours and minutes and are those minutes elevated? If there is and it can be proved that she does not, I would think that we have at least 3 days at least, where someone is posing as Kate.

Kate McCann signature analysis
29^th
9.45 not elevated
17.30 not elevated
30^th
15.15 not elevated
15.30 elevated
1^st
Kate never attends
2^nd
14.45 elevated
17.30 not elevated but uses KM Healey instead
3^rd
12.25 elevated
14.50 elevated
17.30 not elevated I believe, but could be wrong. It looks different to all the rest

by Ribisl 15.03.12 19:08

Stella wrote:Maybe Kate's book is less than truthful. I somehow doubt that the book exercise will help us get to the truth.

You might think it is not important to look over the whole week, but there is more happening earlier that week to suggest an early time of death, than there is after 5.30pm on the 3rd. This is precisely why the Oporto team are focusing once again on the call activity, in particular the deleted calls and voicemails.

I am open minded and agree that one needs to study not only the whole holiday week but also Madeleine's whole life to get to the big truth. Wrt Kate's book however I have to disagree. I think it's invaluable for exposing some of their lies when compared against known facts and for gaining some insight into her personality which may have contributed towards her daughter’s fate. spin

PS I just love this smilie!

by Guest 16.03.12 7:58

Using the same principle as above, here is the twins registration details.

Kate McCann signature analysis in Jellyfish group

29^th

am - withheld

14.35 elevated

30^th

AM - Kate never attends

15.25 elevated

17.20 not elevated

1^st

12.20 elevated

14.30 elevated

17.20 elevated

2^nd

12.25 elevated

14.40 elevated

3^rd

am - withheld

14.45 elevated

17.25 elevated

by Guest 16.03.12 12:03

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Top visual is 1st May Jellyfish

Bottom visual is the 3rd May Jellyfish

What you will notice is that on the 1st, the number 2 is not looped. On the 3rd, the number 2 is looped. The N's in McCann are very different also.

by Guest 16.03.12 13:24

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According to this sheet, it was Kate who signed Madeleine out of morning creche, the day she disappears.

But, according to Gerry's statement on May 10th, he claims it was him, as he was sure he took the short cut.

Perhaps this is why we see the minutes elevated, which Gerry does 7 out of 9 times that week, in Lobsters group.

Gerry McCann 10^th May Statement

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----- Returning to Thursday, after breakfast, about 09h00, KATE and the children left by the rear door, he having left by the front door, which he locked with the key, having also closed and locked the rear door from the inside.
----- They made their way on foot by the usual route to the creche next to the TAPAS where they left the twins, and, while KATE stayed to play tennis he took MADELEINE to her creche, through the short-cut, where they arrived at 09h15, and , since it was obligatory, he signed the child's attendance register. On returning, not by the short-cut, he went to the supermarket where he bought milk, he presumes, making his way to his apartment, entering by the front door, that was locked by key, when it was 09H40/09H45.
----- He remained at home for about 15 minutes, dressing in tennis clothes, left by the front door, that he did not lock, and made his way to the tennis courts by the usual route, they being next to the TAPAS. He played tennis for an hour with the instructor and other students among whom was an individual he had met during the holiday called "JEZ", and with whom he had established a friendship albeit as a simple acquaintance. "JEZ" has two small children whose exact age he does not know. As to his wife, he had seen her next to the pool but had never spoken with her.
----- The tennis class finished at llH15, he stayed in the pool area talking with his wife and other persons, whom he does not remember. At 12H00, together with KATE, as he recalls it, she made lunch and he went to get MADELEINE. He thinks that it was KATE who took the twins home. Since it was he who went to collect MADELEINE, he is sure he used the short-cut.
----- At 12h30 they started lunch, the meal having lasted an hour until 13h30.

by Guest 17.03.12 15:45

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by Guest 17.03.12 15:55

Sorry about the jumbled mess above, had a little trouble getting all the links in.

This is all 7 entries that the O'Brien child entered chreche that week. It went something like this;

29th - 1

30th - 1

1st - 2

2nd - 2

3rd -2

Your guess is as good as mine, as to what went on with the handwriting and room number/name mistakes.

by Guest 17.03.12 16:01

4 out of 7 visits, the child is signed in as staying in 5B, instead of 5D.

One of those entries was made by Cat Nanny. Why would she enter the wrong information for a child in her care?

by Guest 17.03.12 16:04

I'm so pleased not to see any elevated minutes at least with these entries. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Guest 17.03.12 17:48

Thought this might be useful to have on this topic as a reference. It's Gerry's summative overview diagram - looks like his handwriting as the Ns are quite distinctive - and might help to compare to the creche sheet writing if not already ben done.

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Been trying to find samples of Kate's handwriting but not much out there..

by russiandoll 17.03.12 18:02

thanks for posting that....the N is very disctinctive, a wide loop at the bottom, not a sharp angle. now to look at the sheets......again !!

by russiandoll 17.03.12 18:22

first post ,p.1.

While the R on the sheets [ no join of the loop to the vertical line] matches the writing on Gerry's chart,

on the chartm there is no little flick to start writing A, and the M on the chart , like the N, has a loop, not a sharp angle downwards, nothing like the M for Madeleine on the creche sheets.

by Guest 18.03.12 8:55

Stewie wrote:
Thought this might be useful to have on this topic as a reference. It's Gerry's summative overview diagram - looks like his handwriting as the Ns are quite distinctive - and might help to compare to the creche sheet writing if not already ben done.

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Been trying to find samples of Kate's handwriting but not much out there..

Thanks Stewie. I had looked at this some time ago, but back then could not decide if Gerry wrote everything on that chart, or if he was simply standing in front of it with a pen in his hand for a photoshoot.

If that is his writing and I think it is, it demonstrates how different he can write. The N in campaign and the N in agenda are ever so slightly different, but looks to be done by the same hand. But what is glaringly obvious now is the words Summative Overview. Both of these words rise up as they end. Just as I highlighted many times in the creche log. But as I remember, not all of the entries relates to Gerry's signature !!

by uppatoffee 18.03.12 9:19

It's very different to the style of the crèche records. Especially the Flicks on the left hand stem of the A.

by Guest 18.03.12 9:32

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by Guest 18.03.12 9:33

It's the rising up as a word finishes that is so distinctive.

by Guest 18.03.12 10:09

Is there video footage of Gerry writing on that chart, does anyone know?

by Guest 18.03.12 10:15

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Stewie wrote:

Is the K in Key Drivers, like the K in the signature?

by bobbin 18.03.12 13:26

I think the K in K McCann is very similar to K in Key drivers etc.

I also think the Ms and C in Summative and Campaign are very similar to those in the signature.

by russiandoll 18.03.12 13:47

creche sheet clearer than the chart....on the sheet is a clear straight line and the rest of the K formed by writing a large C it seems, again, a curved style rather than angular.

by russiandoll 18.03.12 14:12

cant copy it here, but this is an undated sheet [ think it is the 29th ] with the am and pm sessions noted at the left of the page.....a distinctive M here, also, just like Gerry's chart.

by Guest 18.03.12 16:14

Stella wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I think the Y in Naylor is similar to the Y in the summative overview..

Also looking at the creche sheets, apart from the similarities in various letters like the A and N between the Naylor and Mccann entries, also both these entries (and the summative overview) are written in capital letters. Quite a distinctive way of writing - the other creche entries are mostly in lower case, whereas where R Naylor or G McCann write the respective children's names, they are always in upper case.

by Guest 20.03.12 17:26

Hi Stella

Just wondered if you had compared Kate's handwriting on the crèche sheet with her signature on her passport.

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by roz 08.01.17 11:04

Catriona Treasa Sisile Baker, Childcare Worker
(10 May 07 statement) - We were told by Catriona that the only days they went to the beach were Tuesday afternoon (1 May 2007) between 15:30 and 16:30, on Wednesday (the next day) at the same time and on Thursday between 10 and 11 o'clock
2007/05/06 Translated by Robert Murat
Questioned, she responds that since she has been working with the little girl, it has seemed to her that the parents were attentive to their daughter given that they asked what Madeleine had done in the creche and that they even accompanied Madeleine a few times in certain outside activities.
What ‘outside activities’ is Catriona referring to when she states that the parents ‘accompanied Madeleine a few times’?
1. Tuesday 1^st – Ice cream/ beach trip (2.30 – 4.30pm)
Gerald McCann 10 May 2007 - On returning they left the children at their creches, as usual, the parents having gone to play tennis or went jogging. (After their own ice cream / beach trip Tuesday lunch-time.)
The parents did NOT accompany Madeleine on this outdoor activity.
2. Wednesday 2^nd – Beach play (3.30 - 4.30)
If ‘Olympics Grass time’ was changed on the crèche timetable to beach play, Kate was playing tennis that day on court 1, between 3.30 – 4.30.
(Gerry had been playing tennis an hour earlier.)
One parent did NOT accompany Madeleine on this outdoor activity.
Date: 18 of April, 2008 Cat Baker statement
On Thursday the 3rd of May 2007, I remember Gerry having accompanied Madeleine to the club between 9h15 and 9h20 in the morning. I do not remember who came to pick her up for lunch but after she returned in the afternoon for a dive/swim. These activities were realized with the other children. On this day I remember that we sailed and I saw friends of the McCanns on the beach, David and Jane. Around 14h45 Madeleine returned to the Minis Club on top of the reception but I do not remember who accompanied her. This afternoon we went swimming.
3. Thursday - Mini sail (10.00 – 11.00am)
No mention of Gerry and Kate
The parents did NOT accompany Madeleine on this outdoor activity.
I have to ask, why would Catriona Baker make such a statement?

by roz 22.01.17 11:20

Kirsty Louise Maryan

Date/Time: 2007/05/07 14H30
Child Educator
British (translated by Robert Murat)
Kirsty states that; . relative to the facts of the investigation the witness clarifies that in her daily schedule mentioned she only, on one occasion, had contact with Madeleine McCann, for about 30 minutes 'who was treated as Maddie' in that she had to substitute for her colleague, who, at that time, was responsible for the group whose name is Emma, as she had to go to the Tapas to take care of the refreshments of Madeleine's group. For this, the deponent had the charge of accompanying that group towards (FROM?) the beach until (TO?) the MiniClub where they stayed for a few minutes, and from where they left for the restaurant, mentioned above, in order to have dinner. She clarifies that when Madeleine ate her food, her parents were close and accompanied her;
Questioned, she states that the minor in questions appeared to her a calm child, happy, but quiet. States that Maddie was a very pretty child, notwithstanding, she did not stick out for this fact. However, she furthers that the same child, from what she saw, was a child who did stick out, precisely as she was calmer and shier that the others;
(Ella? from what I can deduce from reading the files, that does not sound like Madeleine.)
I take from this that the 2 mini club groups were all together coming back from a beach trip, with Emma, whom Kirsty stood in for (approx 4.30pm). Where was Cat Baker? Was she called away from her duties for some reason? How long was she away?
Was this on the Tuesday, or on the Wednesday when the children were coming back from their beach trip? Cat did not sign any crèche records that Tuesday after 2.30pm, but signed on Wednesday at 4.30pm for child JB.
(I can only presume this was signed at the crèche after their return from the beach that day.)
The Mc Canns (one or both) finished playing tennis that Tuesday at 3.30pm.
This could mean something, this could mean nothing.

by roz 26.01.17 14:44

I have to amend something I said earlier. (I think this erm confusion is erm…. catching.)
Emma Wilding Statement mini Club
When questioned, she states that on Wednesday May 2, her group and Madeleine's group went to the beach, but she is not sure if Madeleine was in the group or not, and does not remember having seen anybody specifically taking direct and close-up photographs of the children.
Kirsty Louise Maryan, Child Educator 2007/05/07
British (translated by Robert Murat)relative to the facts of the investigation the witness clarifies that in her daily schedule mentioned she only, on one occasion, had contact with Madeleine McCann, for about 30 minutes 'who was treated as Maddie' in that she had to substitute for her colleague, who, at that time, was responsible for the group whose name is Emma, as she had to go to the Tapas to take care of the refreshments of Madeleine's group. For this, the deponent had the charge of accompanying that group towards (FROM) the beach until (TO) the MiniClub where they stayed for a few minutes, and from where they left for the restaurant, mentioned above, in order to have dinner. She clarifies that when Madeleine ate her food, her parents were close and accompanied her;
. Questioned, she states that Madeleine McCann related to the group of children 'MiniClub' who are supervised by a colleague of hers, whose name is Amy, and who coordinates her workers, for who she only knows first names, Cat and Emma, employees who worked with the group during the week in question, from 29 April to 04 May, 2007;

The questions I raise about this are;
Did Cat leave her duties that day at the beach (at approx 4pm)?
If so, why did she? (She did not go in the direction of the Tapas or Mini club.)
(Was it a case of Cat saying to Emma? – I have to go and meet somebody. If I am not back on time, order the refreshments for my group.)
I believe that at some point that week, (if we believe that something ‘happened’ to Madeleine earlier in the week) one of the Mc Canns’ at least, would have had to have met and talked with Cat Baker.
Gerry finished his tennis (Adult classic 2) at 3.30pm that day.
(The day prior, Madeleine’s name seems to have been fitted in to the two lines between am and pm. And incidentally, this was the only time during that week, that Madeleine was earlier than the child JB.)
Which leads me to another thought; If Cat was not there, and Emma had to return to the Ocean club (Mini club) to phone in the refreshments / snack order, was this then the procedure for every afternoon?
Were the refreshments / snacks ordered every day only for those children present in the afternoon?
(I believe from this statement that this was the case, and that Lily, Scarlet, Evie and baby Grace would not be eating High tea at the Tapas raised area.)

by roz 27.01.17 7:58

Can anyone help on the statement from Brigit O'Donnell where she says she saw something, the next day in the creche, with Madeleine's name on it?

by **Tony Bennett** 27.01.17 9:34

roz wrote:Can anyone help on the statement from Bridget [sp.] O'Donnell where she says she saw something, the next day in the creche, with Madeleine's name on it?

The full Guardian article by Bridget O'Donnell can be read here:

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There are three passages of special interest in Bridget O'Donnell's article, one of which contains a reference to the peg with Madeleine's name tag on it (below). Indeed, the whole article is interesting, carefully crafted as it is to support the narrative, such as the digs at the Portuguese police, and the hagiographic treatment of Kate and Gerry.

In analysing the creche sheets, it is always useful to recall that there exists strong evidence that Catriona Baker already knew the McCanns prior to 2007, and that if there was any manipulation or forgery of the Lobster crèche sheets, it only needed the co-operation of Cat Baker - no-one else.

Here, then, are some of the extracts from Bridget O'Donnell's article:

QUOTES

It was Thursday, May 3.

Earlier that day there had been tennis lessons for the children, with some of the parents watching proudly as their girls ran across the court chasing tennis balls. They took photos. Madeleine must have been there, but I couldn't distinguish her from the others. They all looked the same - all blonde, all pink and pretty.

------

We walked towards the kiddie club. No one else was there. We felt awful, such terrible parents for even considering the idea. Then we saw, waiting inside, some of the Mark Warner nannies. They had been up most of the night but had still turned up to work that day. They were intelligent, thoughtful young women and we liked and trusted them. The dance show was cancelled, but they wanted to put on a normal day for the children. Our daughter ran inside and started painting. Then, behind us, another set of parents arrived looking equally washed out. Then another, and another. We decided, in the end, to leave them for two hours. We put their bags on the pegs and saw the one labelled "Madeleine". Heads bent, we walked away, into the guilty glare of the morning sun.

------

Locals and holidaymakers had started circulating photocopied pictures of Madeleine, while others continued searching the beaches and village apartments. People were talking about what had happened or sat silently, staring blankly. We didn't see any police.

Later, there was a knock on our apartment door and we let the two men in. One was a uniformed Portuguese policeman, the other his translator. The translator had a squint and sweated slightly. He was breathless, perhaps a little excited. We later found out he was Robert Murat. He reminded me of a boy in my class at school who was bullied.

Through Murat we answered a few questions and gave our details, which the policeman wrote down on the back of a bit of paper. No notebook. Then he pointed to the photocopied picture of Madeleine on the table. "Is this your daughter?" he asked. "Er, no," we said. "That's the girl you are meant to be searching for." My heart sank for the McCanns.

by **HiDeHo** 27.01.17 10:36

Tony Bennett wrote:
In analysing the creche sheets, it is always useful to recall that there exists strong evidence that Catriona Baker already knew the McCanns prior to 2007, and that if there was any manipulation or forgery of the Lobster crèche sheets, it only needed the co-operation of Cat Baker - no-one else.

I'd be interested to see the 'strong evidence'.

I am uncomfortable to see it suggested that what was a young girl at the time be involved and complicit in the disappearance unless I could see something that shows evidence.

I personally have never believed she was involved (though she may have realised after)

by **Tony Bennett** 27.01.17 11:10

HiDeHo wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:In analysing the creche sheets, it is always useful to recall that there exists strong evidence that Catriona Baker already knew the McCanns prior to 2007, and that if there was any manipulation or forgery of the Lobster crèche sheets, it only needed the co-operation of Cat Baker - no-one else.

I'd be interested to see the 'strong evidence'.

All the following have been discussed already on the forum, but for the record on this thread we have all the following evidence:

1. Jon Corner's daughter Chloe Corner and Cat Baker being FB friends in 2006 or before
2. Jon Corner's statement that he 'regularly' visited Praia da Luz
3. Cat Baker's mistake, or evasion, about her having also been a Mark Warner creche nanny at the Ocean Club the year before (2006)
4. The inconsistent accounts by Kate McCann of her 'initial' meetings with Cat Baker on Sat 28th and Sun 29th April, which might also suggest they had prior acquaintance
5. The fairly obvious inconsistencies and contradictions in her crucial evidence about the alleged 'high tea' at 5-6pm on Thursday 3rd May, which doesn't even accord with Charlotte Pennington's evidence on the matter, let alone the McCanns'
6. The evidence of the close relationship between Cat Baker and the McCanns from those many pictures of them together with each other in Rothley in November 2007 (I posted them on the forum), at the time of the Panorama documentary and the Tapas 7 summit meeting at Rothley Manor Hotel the same month.

I don't have all the references for these to hand but I have put them all on either the Creche Records or the Cat Baker threads on the forum