Re: When a Catholic Priest is called - Extreme Unction

by Guest 06.03.13 19:38

I've always found it it suspicious, that they turned to be devote Roman Catholics [enter Maman Healy :"They were never really devote"], yet kind of ignored the RC priest and befriended the Presbytarian, who has meanwhile moved on from PdL BTW.

by iluvpelageya 06.03.13 22:55

iluvpelageya wrote:
. . . The visit to the Pope is logical if one were looking for a missing child.

Why would that be so? Even God can't help one look for or find a missing child so why should the Pope be any better?
It is more logical if she's dead and her parents thought they were receiving absolution by being touched hence blessed by the Pope.

I do apologise. I should have finished my sentence with a : or a ; instead of a . The following sentence says that the purpose of visiting the Pontiff, one of the most famous people in the world, is to create publicity. That would be obvious if one were looking for a missing child, or if one were covering one's tracks with a fog of publicity.

by iluvpelageya 06.03.13 23:22

Hi Iluvpelageya,
I take it you are a Catholic.

Hi juulcy. I have not been a Catholic for many years, although, for some reason, I find myself defending the Church often.

I certainly didn't mean to hurt your feelings.

You have not hurt my feelings, nor do I think you meant it.

Most of the arguments I do have with non-Catholics is over the Sacrament of Penance. The most common misconception is that absolution gives the penitent carte blanche to go out and commit the same sins again, which is not the case at all. The purpose of penance is for the priest to help the penitent's soul on its way to the next life. The seal on the priest's lips is there to make it easy for the penitent to tell the priest what is troubling them. A penitent is not going to confess something if he thinks the priest is going to spread it all over town. The sacrament of penance is a spiritual experience, and a lot of people do not understand this.

by Smokeandmirrors 07.03.13 6:07

[quote="iluvpelageya"]

It is also well documented that they used IVF, and this is still considered to be a mortal sin by the Catholic church.

The IVF is a bit of a red herring. People can practise a religion and break rules that they disagree with. We have all breakfasted with a Sikh who tucks into a plate of bacon and eggs, or a Jew eating a ham bagel, or been out for a drink with a Muslim. Contrary to popular belief, the Catholic Church is not an exclusive club for the righteous. The Catholic Church is for sinners. If you are a saint, you don't need it.

Thanks for your reply iluvpelageya. With the above point, I think what I should have added, was that they more than likely knew that IVF is a mortal sin in the eyes of the Vatican, yet they still went there for whatever reason wanting some personal attention from the Pope, it seems to demonstrate something of a double standard, a contradiction - something which is demonstrated often. Almost like whatever the situation may be, it has to be their way or the highway. This just stood out to me as a further example of "brass neck".

by iluvpelageya 07.03.13 7:35

Thanks for your reply iluvpelageya. With the above point, I think what I should have added, was that they more than likely knew that IVF is a mortal sin in the eyes of the Vatican, yet they still went there for whatever reason wanting some personal attention from the Pope, it seems to demonstrate something of a double standard, a contradiction - something which is demonstrated often. Almost like whatever the situation may be, it has to be their way or the highway. This just stood out to me as a further example of "brass neck".

Hi, Smoke and Mirrors. One has to understand that a religion is something that one comes with. If your parents are, say, Irish or Italian, you will have been baptised, confirmed a Catholic, and, like as not, have been to a Catholic school. That does not mean that you will follow the rules. You will continue to practise Catholicism because you don't want to upset the family. I have a very powerful bass voice, so I was singing in a Catholic choir at one time. At the same time, I was living with my girlfriend. Such things happen. Also, the Church has changed. You may have heard about the notorious Cathechism. You may have heard that you were given passages to learn by rote, and, if you could not recite them, you got walloped with a ruler. I can tell you that it was true. After the Second Vatican Council, they started teaching theology in the schools instead. You then learned that Catholic teaching was in some cases contradictory. Original Sin, for example, was, according to the Cathechism, something everybody is born with because it was committed by Adam and Eve. However, we were later told that the Catholic Church accepted that Adam and Eve never actually existed; and that the Church has no qualms about Evolution, which we were taught in biology lessons. After that, there is a tendency for Catholics - the intelligent ones, at any rate - to find their own way through the rules. The Catholic Church is pro life. But how does this equate with a ban on IVF? So, many childless Catholic couples will go ahead with IVF and be damned. Another thing is that although the Catholic Church is supposed to be the same the world over. In fact Catholicism takes on the traits of the ambient society. In Ireland, it is regarded as part of Irish nationalism, and was a gesture of defiance against the English overlords. In England, it is very easy-going and liberal, with inconvenient rules disregarded. In Scotland, by comparison, I found it more dour, with all the i's dotted and the t's crossed.

So the McCanns's version of Catholicism would not, I should think, be very pedantic. Like you, I would also find the running to the Pope etc, to be out of character. And, again, like most people on this site, I am cynical about their motives.

by Miraflores 07.03.13 8:25

iluvpelageya wrote:
............

So the McCanns's version of Catholicism would not, I should think, be very pedantic. Like you, I would also find the running to the Pope etc, to be out of character. And, again, like most people on this site, I am cynical about their motives.

Excellent summary which accords with what I have learnt from my husband as a 'lapsed Catholic' e.g. major ructions if you stop going to Church, don't send the children to Catholic schools etc. so much easier to go along with the outward form for the sake of family peace.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with the Pope bit e.g. when he came to the UK thousands turned out, a good many I suspect were not particularly devote but saw it as a fun day out. Other than that it was part of Clarence's "good marketing".

by aiyoyo 07.03.13 9:41

Miraflores wrote:
aiyoyo wrote:
iluvpelageya wrote:. . . The visit to the Pope is logical if one were looking for a missing child.

Why would that be so? Even God can't help one look for or find a missing child so why should the Pope be any better?
It is more logical if she's dead and her parents thought they were receiving absolution by being touched hence blessed by the Pope.

I think this is to do with Gerry's statement that Madeleine was abducted by paedophiles and the scandals which have beset the Catholic church in recent years.

I do realise the hint. I'm aware that the vatican is rife with paedophiles and weirdos.
I am thinking seeking spiritual help is about self help and that can be done even from one own's backyard without having to go into the most holiest catholic church on planet earth. How is a spiritual guidance going to help find Maddie.

God cant even stop his creation the men from sinning -- even men who revere him and who supposedly are living by his laid down commandments are committing atrocity against young children, so how is going to his representative, the Pope, going to help with anything, let alone find your missing child?

by Liz Eagles 07.03.13 23:13

The McCanns went to Rome (iirc on a private jet) and were welcomed by the 'important' people and we all know the 'Rome is preparing' quote from KM and Gerry's blog detailing and gushing about their visit and how they stopped for photo opportunities for the campaign.

I wonder how many devout Catholic people who went to see the Pope that day had broken hearts, dying relatives, murdered relatives, untold strife etc. stood in that square hoping and praying for spiritual guidance would not even have aspired to sit at the front and have the Pope touch their hand - let alone be recognised by him. As for the butterfly I can't speak about my thoughts on that as my language would be unholy!

Just unbelievably narcissistic imo to crow about how the Pope recognised you and blessed the photo of Madeleine and you went to stay with important people and you wondered what to wear and you couldn't eat breakfast. Read Gerry's blog for that one.

No-one else matters so it seems.

I'm editing to add - if the Mc's were there for spiritual comfort why was it so important to brag about being important?

Just my opinion.

by Guest 10.03.13 10:35

Snip from Sky News today

Cardinal Roger Mahony was stripped of all administrative duties in January over allegations he engaged in a cover-up to protect priests accused of abuse.

Mahony retired after 26 years as the Archbishop of Los Angeles in 2011, but the punishment handed down by his successor is regarded as unprecedented.

It followed the release of thousands of pages of files which highlighted claims against more than one hundred priests dating back decades.

They also showed the attempts made to avoid getting the police involved.

Mahony, an enthusiastic blogger, has been providing a running commentary of developments in the Vatican since arriving to join the conclave.

A petition had called for him not to go.

And Esther Miller, who was abused by a priest when she was a teenager, told Sky News she was angry that Mahony was there at all.

She said: "He is not contrite. As Catholic kids we learn the prayer of contrition and it talks about steps you do to repair the offences.

"He has not done steps to repair the offences, he has not done a full remorseful act. Instead he slaps us in the face and jaunts off to Rome. It is appalling."

Maybe the prayer of contrition was said by the McCanns to the Priest in Praia de Luz.