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The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
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Bernt Stellander interview - Page 11 Mm11

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Bernt Stellander interview

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Post by Nina 28.08.24 13:25

PeterMac wrote:Several very vocal critics are making heavy duty attacks on Bernt Stellander 
and his THEORY of what MAY have happened, and are using the fallacious argument 
known as the Straw Man.

They allege, by implication, that he is stating as FACT – a word they always put in capitals –
a number of things he discovered and what he deduced from the evidence he had found and analysed.

The best anyone can hope for – without full and rank admissions and confessions from the parents, 
confirmed by post-hoc forensic science testing – is a set of hypotheses, which IF they match the available evidence well enough may quality for promotion to THEORY.

The sequestration of Madeleine's body in a disused Sarcophagus for a month before moving it to a pre-prepared grave on the hill has, on Bernt's own telling not (yet) been confirmed.   Not by science, discovery, nor admission.

it remains a Theory, which happens to fit very closely with his interpretation of the evidence he has revealed - and perhaps even some he has chosen not yet to reveal.

To the present group of critics we can therefore agree it is not FACT.  (in capitals and Bold to make it look important)

But on any test it is a far stronger theory than Tannerman's having been seen marching off up the street carrying a child in his arms in the manner of a forklift truck;   Smithman's having been Gerry carrying a still warm corpse randomly around PdL within minutes of the alarm's being raised;  or a minor Royal's being in a yacht lying off the coast waiting to receive a living child;  or of the couple breaking into the Church with the tools necessary to unscrew a coffin;  or of several of the other more fanciful hypotheses or theories proposed thus far.

What distinguishes Bernt Stellander's Theory from others is this.
He applied scientific method to his thoughts.
He visited the scene – as did I when it tested the hypothesis about the shutters (and Pat B filmed it and posted it on You Tube, thus destroying that nonsense story – we hope forever, though we note that some on the fringes of knowledge still suggest it might have been possible)
He lived in PdL for three years, during which time he walked the ground hundreds of times, testing possibilities, changing his mind about possible routes and details, and eventually . . .
He – with an accomplice who is known to this investigation – went to the cemetery and with due reverence moved a stone slab of a Sarcophagus sufficiently to prove it could indeed be moved and replaced with relative ease.
He noted the distance, route and time it takes to walk from 5A to the cemetery, noted the ease and routes of access at all hours,  . . 
And he then explored for a long time, also measured in years, the area he believed the McCanns themselves had "leaked" as the final resting place.

He then followed the scientific necessity of Prediction.
He tested his own hypothesis against the likely actions of the persons involved as he describes at length in part 2 of the Brick.
That led to a result, which in turn allowed him more closely to define the area.
That too led to a result . . .
This process of iteration allowed him to define a very specific area which not only conforms to the necessary physical requirements, but on further prediction and testing of the refined hypothesis produced the results he reports.

It remains a Theory.    
The question now is – Is it strong enough for the proper authorities to test ?
And some people are now posting that they will not be buying the book because of what the vocal critics are saying.

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Post by Jill Havern 28.08.24 13:27

Bernt:   You could tell them that for a team of 8 with dogs, all fully funded already, need an official invitation to do it legally and for visa to enter the country for the purpose of digging in a national park.

Me:  And what if you don't get the official invitation?

Bernt:  Then eventually it will still be dug.. wink
But there is no rush.
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Post by Jill Havern 28.08.24 13:30

Nina wrote:And some people are now posting that they will not be buying the book because of what the vocal critics are saying.

Sod them then  nod
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Post by Cake Lover 28.08.24 13:39

Can libraries stock the Brick, due to its unusual distribution method?
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Post by Jill Havern 28.08.24 14:07

Jill Havern wrote:
Nina wrote:And some people are now posting that they will not be buying the book because of what the vocal critics are saying.

Sod them then  nod
What I will add though is that I know a hell of a lot of people come to read these threads from FaceBook groups...many thousands, actually.

So maybe they're not all taking notice of the vocal critics.
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Post by pinkgladioli 28.08.24 14:28

Cake Lover wrote:Can libraries stock the Brick, due to its unusual distribution method?
I doubt they would when they are in effect government funded through local authorities, there would be no harm in asking and if the answer is no asking why not
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Post by PeterMac 28.08.24 14:53

It seems that most - if not all - of the vocal critics
1.  Have not read the book
2   Did not pay much attention to what he said in the interview
3.  Already have very firm and probably  FIXED ideas about what they BELIEVE happened.
some have written and published books which lock them into their own PARTICULAR BELIEF, as well as a small revenue flow, which may make them unwilling
to be as intellectually flexible as might be desirable.
Clarke is the obvious example as he continues to churn out rubbish in his paper without adverting to the likely decision in a fortnight.
Years of work and tens, perhaps hundreds of thousands of Euros, a marriage , a family, and a lucrative rental business, all gone to pot for nothing more than
a bet that he had chanced upon the right patsy and might make a killing (pun intended)
For the rest, . . .
I really do recommend reading the book, twice if possible, with an OPEN MIND
Of course there are errors, and there may be misinterpretations.
But please do it.   The kindle edition is cheap and easy to find,

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Post by Honesty 28.08.24 15:45

Jill Havern wrote:Bernt:   You could tell them that for a team of 8 with dogs, all fully funded already, need an official invitation to do it legally and for visa to enter the country for the purpose of digging in a national park.

Me:  And what if you don't get the official invitation?

Bernt:  Then eventually it will still be dug.. wink
But there is no rush.
Not to cause offence, but presumably this means the specialist dogs have not gone in. 

If there is "no rush", perhaps this is because this is all part of Bernt's plan and it will eventually lead to the result we are all hoping for.

But I am sorry to say that I think people will expect to see results or the doubting Thomas's will multiply.
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Post by Cake Lover 28.08.24 16:09

If 'no rush' means that Bernt has his investigation in the bag, glued,  stapled  and sellotaped, all well and good. The guilty parties have no way out.  That's my hopeful interpretation.
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Post by AnneCGuedes 28.08.24 16:54

Honesty wrote:
But I am sorry to say that I think people will expect to see results or the doubting Thomas's will multiply.

Thomas doesn't only want to see, he wants to touch.
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Post by Bluebagthepirate 28.08.24 19:55

AnneCGuedes wrote:
Honesty wrote:
But I am sorry to say that I think people will expect to see results or the doubting Thomas's will multiply.

Thomas doesn't only want to see, he wants to touch.
He believed without touching in the end.
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Post by AnneCGuedes 28.08.24 20:18

Bluebagthepirate wrote:

He believed without touching in the end.

That's your interpretation, not the Caravage's one.

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Post by Nina 28.08.24 22:30

Don't know where to put this so please move or delete. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nk4jShWtJBM

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Post by Jill Havern 29.08.24 4:58

Thanks Nina, I've posted that video in Pat's own sub-forum.

But she posted this as her pinned comment:

@ProfilingwithPatBrown
7 hours ago (edited)

My review of Bernt Stellander’s book “The Sudden Impulse” will be available on my channel on Friday August 30th or Saturday August 31!
PS. I will not argue over this point and that here about my book, nor will I do that with Bernt’s. I’m might respond on occasion about a point of interest, but please read the books or listen to those audiobook and get what you will from it. Be respectful toward me, Bernt, and others who have offered theories and analyses of this crime and, most of all, be polite to each other.
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Post by PeterMac 29.08.24 6:26

One of the vocal critics is one Paul James, who has posted on the various FB pages
He refers readers to his book, which on examination has not yet been published, or is not available for sale

My reply this morning was this 

"I accept that you have firm and apparently unshakeable beliefs about what did happen.
You state : QUOTE: Once more for the record:
Madeleine was 'not' taken to and stored in the cemetery? This did not take place and is not true.
Madeleine was 'not' taken to the top of the Rocha Negra for burial? This did not take place and is not true. END

The implication is that to be so certain, so sure, that these are not true, you have unique access to the Truth
Could you give us the facts on which you rely to make these statements.
By which I mean irrefutable FACTS and not your individual beliefs or suppositions based on second or third hand evidence"


We shall all be interested in his evidence of what did happen.
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Post by pinkgladioli 29.08.24 8:37

I was looking at things one of the critics of Brent’s theory has been vocal about 
They go on to compile a list of discrepancy questions I think it’s based on the research they have made themselves re the case files entitled Discrepancy questions 
Their question 18 states the following below=

Why did the Police not formally interview Alice Stanley and Chis Unsworth, the mini sale instructors, when they were supposedly one of the last to see her on Friday morning?

Friday morning??
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Post by Verity 29.08.24 8:52

Bernt Stellander interview - Page 11 Lizzy10

Lizzy is getting in a tizzy

She hasn't read the book, has barely watched the interview and instead of being curious about where this investigation may, or may not, lead she's admitted that her discrediting of Bernt's book is about her credibility.

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Post by crusader 29.08.24 9:04

The ego's are showing now.
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Post by pinkgladioli 29.08.24 9:17

It doesn’t look like the critics have fully engaged in watching Brent’s interview and looks very much like they have watch titbits and not the full thing, to be honest I really think you have to watch it a good few times to listen his theory unfold

There is a critic who has been extremely vocal about the cemetery aspect just to say if they had watched listened and observed fully James English’s interview with Bernt they would know who Bernt companion was and why
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Post by Honesty 29.08.24 9:37

Verity wrote:Bernt Stellander interview - Page 11 Lizzy10

Lizzy is getting in a tizzy

She hasn't read the book, has barely watched the interview and instead of being curious about where this investigation may, or may not, lead she's admitted that her discrediting of Bernt's book is about her credibility.

bignono
If by discredit you mean to harm the good reputation of, how has Lizzie done this?

I am sorry to say this, but didn't Bernt admit he hadn't read Goncarlo Amaral's book?
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Post by Cake Lover 29.08.24 9:50

I don't know much about Lizzie except that she has done a lot of research over many years.  It seems that  her feelings are hurt?
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Post by Verity 29.08.24 10:00

Honesty wrote:
Verity wrote:Bernt Stellander interview - Page 11 Lizzy10

Lizzy is getting in a tizzy

She hasn't read the book, has barely watched the interview and instead of being curious about where this investigation may, or may not, lead she's admitted that her discrediting of Bernt's book is about her credibility.

bignono
If by discredit you mean to harm the good reputation of, how has Lizzie done this?

I am sorry to say this, but didn't Bernt admit he hadn't read Goncarlo Amaral's book?
Do you not think that by encouraging many thousands of members on various FB groups that Bernt is a phoney, without even having read the free book he's sent her or watched his JE interview, that she's not harming his reputation at the expense of her own credibility?

How can she give an opinion on something she hasn't even read? She has no idea what's in the book because she hasn't even received it yet.
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Post by pinkgladioli 29.08.24 10:02

Yes he did say he hadn’t read Amaral’s book,   
I believe Bernt’s approach was to look at from the perspective of a fresh pair of eyes and ears

To my knowledge Bernt hasn’t done a review of Amaral’s book and I believe know one would expect him to do so without him having read every morsel of it  and I personally belief that anyone critical of Bernts theory should show him the same respect by watching his interview done with J E. or reading his book fully then choosing to review it
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Post by Verity 29.08.24 10:07

P.S. You only have to read Lizzy's posts on the various FB groups to see that many people are now saying they will not read his book, and some are even discrediting not just the book, but the person himself.

But they're happy to offer up their opinions on the book without ever having read it.

I find them all sickening.
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Post by crusader 29.08.24 10:57

I'm not a member of Facebook so I wouldn't know what they were saying.
If people are really interested they will buy the book regardless of other's opinions but it does need promoting here.
I suspect if the Brick was cheaper and easy to get, more people would buy it just for general curiosity.
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Post by Cake Lover 29.08.24 11:01

I don't do Facebook either; I agree about the opinions of others, it's stupid not to think for yourself.
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Post by Cammerigal 29.08.24 11:47

crusader wrote:Did the sniffer dogs go to the cemetery?
I thought the scent was lost just over the road at the car park in front of the apartments.
Sniffer/Cadaver dogs do NOT go to a cemetery...because of the obvious scents of dead bodies. Hence it makes a SUPERB place to store a dead body. "Any Fule Kno that".
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Post by crusader 29.08.24 12:48

This fule didn't.  laugh
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Post by AnneCGuedes 29.08.24 14:47

You don't bury bodies wrapped in plastic bags in a cemetery, only coffins or urns.  In Portugal, if the body is not taken to the mortuary, it must be buried within 24 hours. What about insect squads? https://entomologytoday.org/2017/10/03/the-flies-and-beetles-that-turn-death-into-dinner/
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Post by Jill Havern 29.08.24 15:08

From Bernt:

Hi Jill. Could you tell them that I don't speak or read Portuguese and that my job was basically done when the English translation of Amaral's book became available. I have said that I know exactly what he is saying in his book as I saw a Portuguese documentary about the book with English subtitles and Mr. de Almeida's final reports is basically identical to Amaral's beliefs at the time. Other info about his book I got on the forums, so what do I have to read his book when I was done when it became available. I also stated I didn't want to follow someone blindly, even though one of the main motivations for doing this job was how the press treated Amaral. Those who read my book knows that he is a hero in my book, literally.
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