Re: Operation Grange re-examine theory that Madeleine woke up and wandered

by Guest 26.11.18 14:11

MADELEINE 'INSULT'

Kate and Gerry McCann hit back at claims Madeleine woke up and left the apartment while they were eating tapas with friends

Detectives leading the £11.75m hunt for Maddie are re-visiting the theory she walked out of the flat in Praia da Luz, Portugal, alone

By Tracey Kandohla
26th November 2018, 11:13 am
Updated: 26th November 2018, 1:53 pm

MADELEINE McCann’s parents are convinced their daughter was kidnapped and have dismissed "insulting" claims she could have woken up and wandered out of their holiday apartment.

Brit detectives leading the £11.75m investigation into Maddie's disappearance are re-examining a theory she left her family’s holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal, to look for her parents.

But Gerry and Kate McCann have branded the theory "ridiculous" as heavy shutters found open in the bedroom where their children were sleeping would have to have been opened by Maddie.

A family source said: "Kate and Gerry have always maintained that their daughter was abducted and simply didn’t get up and wander off to her fate.
"To suggest this is almost ridiculous.

"There were heavy shutters which would have been impossible for a small child to open."

They spoke out after a source told [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] cops are pursuing two vital new leads over the 2007 mystery.

The source, in Portugal, told the newspaper: “A meeting took place recently at the HQ of the General Attorney’s Office, which was attended by the prosecutor from Portimao who is in charge of the Portuguese inquiry.

"One of the lines of investigation that continues to be pursued is that Maddie could have walked out of the holiday flat herself.”

Kate has previously disputed in detail the possibility Maddie was taken after wandering off or suffered a fatal accident - a theory first probed by the Portuguese police.

In her harrowing 2011 book about her daughter's disappearance, she stated: “I have always found the third suggestion insulting to our intelligence.

“Obviously, the police are obliged to consider all possible scenarios but there was no doubt in our minds that Madeleine had not left the apartment on her own accord.

"There was no way a three-year-old would have been able to raise the shutters and open the window in the children’s room.

"To give any credence whatsoever to that idea that Madeleine could have walked out on her own you would have to accept that she had gone out the back way, pulling aside the sitting room curtains and drawing them again, then opening the patio doors, the child safety gate at the top of the stairs on the veranda and the little gate to the road - and carefully closing all three behind her.

“What three-year-old do you know who would do that? And we knew our Madeleine. She simply would not wander off like this.

"The theory was not only insulting it was, much more importantly, frighteningly damaging to the chances of finding Madeleine quickly."

Former GP Kate, 50, also spoke about the shutters in a TV interview with American chat show queen Oprah Winfrey to mark the second anniversary of Maddie’s disappearance in May 2007.

She said: "That was when I knew that someone had taken her. It was obvious, because a child could not open those shutters."

Portuguese cops in the initial bungled inquiry, headed by Goncalo Amaral - who the McCann's are still locked in a long-running libel battle with - speculated the youngster could have walked off down the hill and fallen into a big roadworks pit where she died.

Another theory was that she was knocked unconscious and her body was not discovered when the hole was filled over the following day.
Operation Grange has previously said they believe Maddie was snatched or taken during a burglary gone wrong.

The McCann source said: “Whatever the Met Police are doing, which the public is not privy to, is as much as to rule scenarios and suspects out as to rule them in."

Kate, now a medical worker, and heart doctor Gerry, 50, from Rothley, Leics, hold onto a glimmer of hope that Maddie - who would now be aged 15 - could still be alive.

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No Comment!

by sammyc 26.11.18 14:26

Thanks Verdi that was quick!. I can't get me 'ead round most of the stuff the Mc's say but this a good 'un. So one minute the McCann's are saying the doors were left open so Madeleine could find them if needed but next minute she couldn't have possibly got out of the apartment and simply wandered off. Am I going doolally confused

by Guest 26.11.18 15:01

sammyc wrote:Am I going doolally

Nah, this is where the problem lies (in more ways than one)..

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Olive Oyl - The Daily Tablet [circa. May 2007-November 2018]

by sar 26.11.18 15:21

"Kate and Gerry have always maintained that their daughter was abducted" indeed they have

by Doug D 26.11.18 16:56

Should ‘our Trace’ not have split the credit for this one with PeterMac ([You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]), as it’s clearly where she picked up on this one?

by **Tony Bennett** 26.11.18 17:12

Verdi wrote:MADELEINE 'INSULT'

Kate and Gerry McCann hit back at claims Madeleine woke up and left the apartment while they were eating tapas with friends

Detectives leading the £11.75m hunt for Maddie are re-visiting the theory she walked out of the flat in Praia da Luz, Portugal, alone

By Tracey Kandohla
26th November 2018, 11:13 am
Updated: 26th November 2018, 1:53 pm

MADELEINE McCann’s parents are convinced their daughter was kidnapped and have dismissed "insulting" claims she could have woken up and wandered out of their holiday apartment.

Therefore they were likewise 'insulted' when pretend copper/criminologist Mark Williams-Thomas also came up with the 'wandered off' theory on SKY News about a year ago

by willowthewisp 26.11.18 17:31

Tony Bennett wrote:
Verdi wrote:MADELEINE 'INSULT'

Kate and Gerry McCann hit back at claims Madeleine woke up and left the apartment while they were eating tapas with friends

Detectives leading the £11.75m hunt for Maddie are re-visiting the theory she walked out of the flat in Praia da Luz, Portugal, alone

By Tracey Kandohla
26th November 2018, 11:13 am
Updated: 26th November 2018, 1:53 pm

MADELEINE McCann’s parents are convinced their daughter was kidnapped and have dismissed "insulting" claims she could have woken up and wandered out of their holiday apartment.

Therefore they were likewise 'insulted' when pretend copper/criminologist Mark Williams-Thomas also came up with the 'wandered off' theory on SKY News about a year ago

If you believe Mark William's Thomas,he was responsible for un-covering Savile and his pals,but not whilst he was alive?
Mark Willam's Thomas has also obtained recordings from past Journalists,where he has friends from the Media,Music enterprise naming person's believed to have been involved in child Abuse,but these same person's have won undisclosed amounts paid out by UK Police Forces for "False Allegations" possibly based on this person's collection from his rather dubious past!

Could Mark William's Thomas be described as a "Fantasist,Liar",yet to be brought before any UK Crown Court on "Perverting a Course of Justice",remember the Jill Dando investigation access to 52,000 pages of "Official Police files" claim on his review into Jills unsolved Murder,why would the Police allow access on an unsolved Murder!

by Cmaryholmes 26.11.18 18:42

I wonder if the Mccanns are being paid for these non-stories in the DM and Sun? A nice little earner, maybe, as well as the ‘feel sorry for us’ propaganda.

by **sharonl** 26.11.18 18:57

Cmaryholmes wrote:I wonder if the Mccanns are being paid for these non-stories in the DM and Sun? A nice little earner, maybe, as well as the ‘feel sorry for us’ propaganda.

These stories are making complete fools of the McCanns, the government, the Met Police and the media. There must be some reason that the McCanns are putting up with it.

by Sceptic 26.11.18 22:54

sharonl wrote:
Cmaryholmes wrote:I wonder if the Mccanns are being paid for these non-stories in the DM and Sun? A nice little earner, maybe, as well as the ‘feel sorry for us’ propaganda.

These stories are making complete fools of the McCanns, the government, the Met Police and the media. There must be some reason that the McCanns are putting up with it.

IMHO The McCanns are the source of the story as well as the response to the story a tactic they have used before - The question is why? What are they trying divert attention from.

IMHO the REAL NEWS in the story is

1) The need for rogatory letters has been scrapped - SY can now ask the McCanns whatever they choose or on behalf of the Portuguese without having the lengthy wait for rogatory letters to be approved.

2) The Portuguese Prosecuter was present at the recent meeting between the two forces - as per our CPS who advise the investigating force if there is sufficient evidence to charge and what is required to proceed to court

by loopzdaloop 26.11.18 23:26

cracking by the police. come up with a new idea and it might benefit from being investigated with interviews. it has already forced the mccanns to say something different and they look daft being this dismissive already. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6429815/Gerry-Kate-McCann-slam-claims-Madeleine-walked-aparment-says-kidnapped.html

by sar 26.11.18 23:28

+1 Sceptic

by loopzdaloop 26.11.18 23:30

Phoebe wrote:@ Roidininki Of course they didn't tell the truth! However, their tale re. the "crime scene" now sees them hoisted by their own petard.
In order for this woke and wandered nonsense to be acceptable (and leaving aside the dogs' and other evidence) the McCanns would have to admit that they lied about the state of the apartment. Now they are in a horrible bind. If they admit to having fibbed to the police and public about the state of the apartment when they "discovered Madeleine missing" then nothing else they say will be trusted.

Great Phoebe, you called it precisely. They have reinforced today that the shutters were too heavy :)
The noose is tightening. Check out https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6429815/Gerry-Kate-McCann-slam-claims-Madeleine-walked-aparment-says-kidnapped.html

The problem is, kids can do this (as described by daily mail readers below) so for them to be so adamant it did not happen and dismiss it - is another redflag in the large book.

Following taken from the comments:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], Reading, United Kingdom, 8 hours ago
I came home from a night shift to find my two year old son had dirt on the soles of his sleep suit. It transpired that he had unlocked the front door and taken himself out for a walk whilst my husband was in bed asleep. I was scared silly at what could've happened to him. Needless to say, we fitted extra locks to the door. He did it again at a caravan park we holidayed at, so we had to barricade the doors. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that Madeline wandered off as i believe the door was unlocked, and the apartment backed on to a service road.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], Derby, United Kingdom, 6 hours ago
Parenting 101.

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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], Wakefield, United Kingdom, 6 hours ago
Glad he is safe

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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], Harrogate, United Kingdom, 6 hours ago
I slept walked and let me myself out of a house apparentlyI couldn't unlock.. still did it and turned up asleep at my mates... dismissing how could they? Been fans of them, clearly they are very upset and don't know what happened.. but dismissing this.. sorry no...very much could have happened... no grounds for them dismissing it

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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], Glasgow, United Kingdom, 5 hours ago
My brother (who is 33 now!) put on his wellies and a mismatched outfit when he was a toddler, at 6am, when no-one was yet up, unlocked the door, and went out looking for someone to play with. Mercifully he was playing by himself only a few gardens away. Mum nearly had a heart attack when she got up for breakfast!

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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], Merseyside, United Kingdom, 4 hours ago
They are resourceful little tykes. When my daughter was 2 she could also unlock and open the door. I was so naive to the fact she at that age would learn from us how to do that. Frightened the life out of me!

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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], Portsmouth, 4 hours ago
Similar experience with my son, we were away & daughter kept me awake all night with earache. I fell asleep in her room, my son climbed out of his travel cot got down the stairs & opened the front door. First thing I knew about it was someone shouting hello thru the opened door. He was outside wandering in the street!!! I've never been so shocked & scared in my life.

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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], Crawley, United Kingdom, 3 hours ago
I fear my youngest will do this and I wouldn't put it past him! He's only 2 but very self willed! All my doors are locked and keys up high. Stair gates on the bedroom. I would do anything to keep my kids safe. Why didn't they?

by loopzdaloop 26.11.18 23:45

Sceptic wrote:
sharonl wrote:
Cmaryholmes wrote:I wonder if the Mccanns are being paid for these non-stories in the DM and Sun? A nice little earner, maybe, as well as the ‘feel sorry for us’ propaganda.

These stories are making complete fools of the McCanns, the government, the Met Police and the media. There must be some reason that the McCanns are putting up with it.
IMHO The McCanns are the source of the story as well as the response to the story a tactic they have used before - The question is why? What are they trying divert attention from.

IMHO the REAL NEWS in the story is

1) The need for rogatory letters has been scrapped - SY can now ask the McCanns whatever they choose or on behalf of the Portuguese without having the lengthy wait for rogatory letters to be approved.

2) The Portuguese Prosecuter was present at the recent meeting between the two forces - as per our CPS who advise the investigating force if there is sufficient evidence to charge and what is required to proceed to court

I've just caught up, I should read before commenting.

Please can you tell more about (1) - Does this mean the Mccann's were previously not interviewed because Scotland Yard were obliged to rely on the rogatory letters? Now you think they can actually be interviewed?

by loopzdaloop 26.11.18 23:48

sar wrote:"Kate and Gerry have always maintained that their daughter was abducted" indeed they have

This made me question if they actively planned the shutters story to rule out M 'wandering away'. Like the tea stains if the body was found.

by Guest 26.11.18 23:54

Sceptic wrote:IMHO The McCanns are the source of the story as well as the response to the story a tactic they have used before - The question is why? What are they trying divert attention from.

My sentiments precisely. The McCann Co Ltd were/are most likely behind every story that hit the UK national and regional press.

What was the point of the government's Media Monitoring director being assigned to control what came out in the media, if not to control what come out in the media?

Good Publicity v. Bad Publicity - who cares just as long as it's publicity. What better way of ensuring that there will never be even a prosecution let alone a trial before a court of law. More a case of Good/Bad Publicity v. Fair Trial.

People sadly underestimate the power of the press. It's the tool of the establishment, always has been always will be.

by **Jill Havern** 27.11.18 7:12

Well done Ms Kandohla for publishing the video of Eddie and Keela alerting to blood and death scent in the McCann's apartment and hire car in this article:

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by Sceptic 27.11.18 7:53

RUU

loopzdaloop wrote:
Sceptic wrote:
sharonl wrote:
Cmaryholmes wrote:I wonder if the Mccanns are being paid for these non-stories in the DM and Sun? A nice little earner, maybe, as well as the ‘feel sorry for us’ propaganda.

These stories are making complete fools of the McCanns, the government, the Met Police and the media. There must be some reason that the McCanns are putting up with it.
IMHO The McCanns are the source of the story as well as the response to the story a tactic they have used before - The question is why? What are they trying divert attention from.

IMHO the REAL NEWS in the story is

1) The need for rogatory letters has been scrapped - SY can now ask the McCanns whatever they choose or on behalf of the Portuguese without having the lengthy wait for rogatory letters to be approved.

2) The Portuguese Prosecuter was present at the recent meeting between the two forces - as per our CPS who advise the investigating force if there is sufficient evidence to charge and what is required to proceed to court

I've just caught up, I should read before commenting.

Please can you tell more about (1) - Does this mean the Mccann's were previously not interviewed because Scotland Yard were obliged to rely on the rogatory letters? Now you think they can actually be interviewed?

As far as I’m aware as the “crime” occurred in Portugal for the results of questioning to be legal and used in a court of law that was the necessary procedure
The question is why and for what reason has the source of the story chosen to highlight this point

by Doug D 27.11.18 9:36

Sceptic @ [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]:

1) The need for rogatory letters has been scrapped - SY can now ask the McCanns whatever they choose or on behalf of the Portuguese without having the lengthy wait for rogatory letters to be approved.

Sorry, I’m probably being daft, but where has this come from?

by Sceptic 27.11.18 10:09

I Doug D wrote:Sceptic @ [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]:

1) The need for rogatory letters has been scrapped - SY can now ask the McCanns whatever they choose or on behalf of the Portuguese without having the lengthy wait for rogatory letters to be approved.

Sorry, I’m probably being daft, but where has this come from?

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A spokesman for Portugal's Attorney General's Office refused to comment, but a well-placed source said: 'The heads of the two police investigations are corresponding with each other directly and have combined their efforts without resorting to rogatory letters like before.

by sar 27.11.18 10:16

this makes for interesting reading?

"A spokesman for Portugal's Attorney General's Office refused to comment, but a well-placed source said: 'The heads of the two police investigations are corresponding with each other directly and have combined their efforts without resorting to rogatory letters like before."

by NickE 27.11.18 11:17

sar wrote:this makes for interesting reading?

"A spokesman for Portugal's Attorney General's Office refused to comment, but a well-placed source said: 'The heads of the two police investigations are corresponding with each other directly and have combined their efforts without resorting to rogatory letters like before."

IF they are investigate a car accident I wonder if they looking into two people which were a couple back in May 2007, he Portuguese(Nuno) and she British(Hayley)?

by Doug D 27.11.18 13:37

Thank you for clarifying that Sceptic.

The Sun story ([You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]) posted by TK:

By Tracey Kandohla
26th November 2018, 11:13 am
Updated: 26th November 2018, 1:53 pm

The Sun made no mention of this, yet her story in The Mail, posted shortly afterwards really went to town on it.

As they are so significantly different I have posted the Mail one up below for posterity:

'She WAS kidnapped!' Madeleine McCann's parents dismiss new theory that their missing daughter disappeared after wandering out of holiday apartment looking for them

·       Portuguese police are probing whether toddler woke up and walked out of flat
·       But her parents Kate and Gerry have said that would have been impossible
·       Madeleine, three, disappeared while the family were in Portugal in May 2007
By [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
PUBLISHED: 13:31, 26 November 2018 | UPDATED: 13:33, 26 November 2018

Madeleine McCann's parents have hit out at claims their daughter woke up and wandered out of their holiday apartment before she went missing 11 years ago.
Police investigations by British and Portuguese detectives are believed to be re-visiting the theory the three-year-old left their Algarve apartment of her own accord before she disappeared.
But Kate and Gerry McCann have slammed the idea, insisting she was kidnapped by someone while they were on holiday in Praia da Luz in May 2007.
A family source said: 'Kate and Gerry have always maintained that their daughter was abducted and simply didn't get up and wander off to her fate.
'There were heavy shutters which would have been impossible for a small child to open.'

Mr and Mrs McCann say the heavy shutters on the windows of Madeleine's room were far too heavy for a small child like her to open and get out off
Claims Scotland Yard are looking into the possibility Maddie could have left the family villa, where she and her younger twin siblings had been left sleeping alone, come after it was revealed that UK detectives have told the McCanns' they are pursuing two vital new leads - not one final line of inquiry.
Mrs McCann spoke about the shutters in a TV interview with American chat show host Oprah Winfrey to mark the second anniversary of her daughter's disappearance.
Re-living the horror she felt as she searched the apartment and noticed the shutters open, she said: 'That was when I knew that someone had taken her. It was obvious, because a child could not open those shutters.'
The British and Portuguese efforts to find out what happened to the toddler are being carried out separately - but the two are believed to have met to discuss the theory she woke up and wandered off.
A spokesman for Portugal's Attorney General's Office refused to comment, but a well-placed source said: 'The heads of the two police investigations are corresponding with each other directly and have combined their efforts without resorting to rogatory letters like before.
'A meeting took place recently at the HQ of the General Attorney's Office in Portugal, which was attended by the prosecutor from Portimao who is in charge of the Portuguese inquiry.
'One of the lines of investigation that continues to be pursued is that the child could have walked out of the holiday flat herself.'

Rogatory letters are ones sent to a foreign court to help in the pursuit of justice.
The last of the six sent to the Portuguese police by their British counterparts was answered on October 25 2016, but none have been sent since.
Another well-informed insider added: 'Despite the fact there are two investigations and two different teams, the relationship between both is very healthy and well-informed and benefits from shared intelligence.'
Hinting both forces may have gone cold on the idea the youngster had been the victim of a botched burglary or a paedophile who had forced entry to snatch her, the insider said: 'The theory that Madeleine left the flat of her own accord to go looking for her parents is not something that hasn't been discussed before.
'But the Portuguese process tends to value lines of investigation that are put forward.
'Until we know for sure what happened though, no scenario is likely to be ruled out.'

A third source, referring to the absence of new rogatory letters, said: 'The pattern of direct cooperation that now exists means formal requests for international cooperation are not necessary.
'The Portuguese inquiry is still open, meaning that any new work can be executed as part of that investigation without the needs for rogatory letters.
The theory Madeline may have lost her way in the dark and taken a wrong turn as she went looking for her parents was one of the early hypotheses put forward to explain her disappearance.
It has also been suggested a panicking drink-driver might have run her over and sped off with her body before hiding it in the countryside.

Portuguese police have made no secret of their rejection of the theory championed by a British detective about Madeleine being kidnapped by thieves during a bungled burglary.
In July 2014 four Portuguese men faced a barrage of more than 250 questions while being quizzed as arguidos or formal suspects in interviews on the Algarve conducted at Scotland Yard's request.
They were questioned as part of the theory Madeleine may have been killed during a botched break-in and her body buried on waste ground nearby.
More recently it has been suggested officers are keen to identify a woman in purple seen hanging round the holiday flat around the time Madeleine went missing.
The Home Office announced last week it would grant an extra £150,000 to Operation Grange, which has cost the taxpayer £11.75million so far, to keep the investigation going until spring next year.
It is understood police recently told her parents during a meeting at their Leicestershire home that they were 'hopeful' of a result and were focusing on 'two specific and active' lines of inquiry, not just one as was initially thought.
Scotland Yard has refused to go public with details on what they are looking at.

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……………………………………..

Wow, just look at all of the ‘sources’:

A spokesman for Portugal's Attorney General's Office refused to comment, but a well-placed source said:

Another well-informed insider added:

A third source, referring to the absence of new rogatory letters, said:

So we can take it all as gospel then can we? (Sorry Tracey, no we can’t!)

by **Ladyinred** 28.11.18 21:43

On 27th April of this year, Tracey 'reported' in The Sun that the parents were warned by police not to discuss the case publicly in case it hindered the ongoing £12 million search. Have the parents and Tracey forgotten this advice?

There is a thread here which discussed the article - "Don't talk..." if someone could link, please.

by Guest 28.11.18 22:30

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hat

by sammyc 28.11.18 22:31

Ladyinred wrote:On 27th April of this year, Tracey 'reported' in The Sun that the parents were warned by police not to discuss the case publicly in case it hindered the ongoing £12 million search. Have the parents and Tracey forgotten this advice?

There is a thread here which discussed the article - "Don't talk..." if someone could link, please.

Our Tracey in The Sun is years behind everyone else ladyinred. The McCanns and friends, family and associates were warned immediately after little Madeleine was 'reported missing', 'abducted', 'stolen by burglars' to not discuss the case in public but they started a Worldwide campaign nonetheless. All done with military precision imo.

by Guest 29.11.18 0:03

Are but aren't they cunning - they didn't discuss the case in public, they got everyone else to do it on their behalf interview

.

Step forward Clarence Mitchell !

by Guest 29.11.18 8:28

One day the gatekeepers will retire, and die. That is the day that fills every waking moment for the guilty with dread.

by Guest 30.11.18 14:56

Of course there is nothing new with this latest media blitz - just a feeble fabricated excuse for additional funding (a pittance I might say, barely covering salaries + overtime) to continue the charade for another six months.

The UK media has been providing the populace with total nonsense stories for well over eleven years, for the most part planted by team McCann and their glorious fog-horn Clarence Mitchell. For the millionth time, the McCanns were given the personal servies of a government media monitoring director - to control what comes out in the press. Why then has there been so much negative press against the McCanns, some resulting in hefty libel out of court settlements, payable to Messrs McCann - where was the media monitoring director when all this was going on, if not orchestrating the whole campaign behind the scenes?

It remains my view that the ten year anniversary of Madeleine McCann was designed to informally end the McCann campaign - seriously, it couldn't go on forever. That is the reason the public do not hear so much of them in more recent months. Aside from that, the additional funding for continuation of Operation Grange, granted by the Home Office, needs to be justified inthe eyes of the public - hence yet another blitz of nonsense reportage by the UK press. Not forgetting Proffesor Gerald McCann's extraordinary heart wrenching radio show, intermingled with an entirely irrelevant poetry sitting.

The Metropolitan Police on the case? Don't make me laugh - the masquerade has been going on since May 2011 and now. having reduced the team down to four, they're about to move in?

The only reliable source of information in this connection is not the UK or Portuguese media but that granted by senior officers of the Metroploitan Police, captured on video. The press and/or members of the public who feign inside knowledge of this case are but fantasists with attention deficit disorder, it would appear.

I hope I'm wrong.

by NickE 30.11.18 21:41

But why would the McCann's/Mitchell leak to the media that she wandered off?
It would be devastating for them, because everyone knows, including PJ knows that it was not possible for a 90cm old 4 years old girl to raise the shutters and open up the window because someone opened up the window and there's only fingerprints from one person.
By the way, how do we know that the security gate was closed an locked?
Any independent witnesses for this?
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