Operation Grange re-examine theory that Madeleine woke up and wandered

by **Jill Havern** 24.11.18 22:46

DID MADDIE WALK OUT?
Cops re-examine theory that Madeleine McCann woke up and wandered out of family’s holiday apartment to look for her parents

The revelation comes amid reports that Scotland Yard has told Kate and Gerry McCann they are pursuing two vital new leads

BRIT cops are re-examining a theory that Madeleine McCann left her family’s holiday apartment to look for her parents.
The latest revelation comes amid reports that Scotland Yard has told[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] they are pursuing two vital new leads.

The Sun on Sunday can reveal one of these revolves around [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] waking up and wandering out of the villa in Praia da Luz, Portugal.
Detectives from Operation Grange — the Met Police’s probe into her 2007 disappearance — discussed the theory recently with Portuguese police.
Cops there had previously explored whether Madeleine was searching for her parents, who were at a nearby tapas bar.
She may have been knocked down by a drink driver, they speculated, who put her body in the car and later buried it.

Meanwhile Scotland Yard officers looked at whether it was a kidnapping or burglary gone wrong.
A source in Portugal said: “A meeting took place recently at the HQ of the General Attorney’s Office, which was attended by the prosecutor from Portimao who is in charge of the Portuguese inquiry.

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by Guest 24.11.18 23:04

This case attracts revelations like dung attracts flies.

Are they so desperate to justify the paltry sum of £150,000 that they need to resort to even more fabrication?

After eleven and a half years Sloperation Grange are now focusing on the possibility that Madeleine wandered off into the night? Didn't the PJ rule out that hypothesis early May 2007?

Is this trash associated with the customary weekend reportage (remember those halcyon days) or Black Friday skull

.

by **Tony Bennett** 24.11.18 23:28

Jill Havern wrote:DID MADDIE WALK OUT?
Cops re-examine theory that Madeleine McCann woke up and wandered out of family’s holiday apartment to look for her parents

The revelation comes amid reports that Scotland Yard has told Kate and Gerry McCann they are pursuing two vital new leads

BRIT cops are re-examining a theory that Madeleine McCann left her family’s holiday apartment to look for her parents.
The latest revelation comes amid reports that Scotland Yard has told[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] they are pursuing two vital new leads.

The Sun on Sunday can reveal one of these revolves around [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] waking up and wandering out of the villa in Praia da Luz, Portugal.
Detectives from Operation Grange — the Met Police’s probe into her 2007 disappearance — discussed the theory recently with Portuguese police.
Cops there had previously explored whether Madeleine was searching for her parents, who were at a nearby tapas bar.
She may have been knocked down by a drink driver, they speculated, who put her body in the car and later buried it.

Meanwhile Scotland Yard officers looked at whether it was a kidnapping or burglary gone wrong.
A source in Portugal said: “A meeting took place recently at the HQ of the General Attorney’s Office, which was attended by the prosecutor from Portimao who is in charge of the Portuguese inquiry.

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FIVE YEARS and a month after Operation Grange told us that Martin Smith's efits were 'THE CENTRE OF OUR FOCUS', they now come up with this?

If it were true, there would be no hope whatsoever of Madeleine being found.

If I were the McCanns, I'd be screaming:

"What?*!&?!*?? Five years later, you're telling me you don't believe she was abducted by a man seen by the Smiths? When did you change your minds? On what basis? What's your evidence? Do you mean that Smithman sighting is now irrelevant????!"

by Phoebe 25.11.18 2:02

There are two inescapable facts which point to the untruth of these claims from "The Sun". 1) The McCanns did not search for their daughter on the night she was reported missing. They, instead, spent their time phoning the news of her disappearance to all and sundry and then took to their beds because it was dark and cold.
2) The McCanns failed to react to the Smith sighting as soon as it became known, they did not try to contact these witnesses to discover for themselves what they had seen nor urge the police to press them
for information.
Their behaviour is not consistent with the normal, expected reaction of parents who do not know where their lost child is.

by NickE 25.11.18 7:33

I 've said it many times before, this is how the "investigation" will end.
She walked out, an hit & run accident occurred and the driver died few years ago.

by Cmaryholmes 25.11.18 7:50

Excuse me....didn’t ‘Sir’ Mark Rowley say that Madeleine was too young to leave and start a new life, or some such fatuous statement, and therefore must have been abducted? Was I dreaming ?

by **sandancer** 25.11.18 11:03

Yet more old " revelations " and " speculation " !

She left the apartment to look for her parents , despite Kate saying she " knew " ( knows a lot our Kate doesn't she !) Madeleine would never leave the apartment by herself , oh wait a minute , didn't she also tell Fiona and Jane they'd left the patio doors unlocked so if she woke up again she could come and find them ?

Can't have it both ways Kate .

Where does this utter drivel come from ?
I'd love to have been a fly on the wall at this alleged meeting

No Tannerman/Crecheman/ 6 years in a coma man , no Smithman , or ( revelation ) did one of them knock her over ?

If this was a soap opera people would be complaining , saying it's not believable , sadly it's not and once again poor Madeleine is being ignored .

by **Ladyinred** 25.11.18 12:07

I don't believe a word of this piece of"reporting", nor anything in the papers (or radio interviews!) regarding the disappearance of MBM. Exasperating, and a waste of time commenting on the BS.
Someone is taking the p***

by Guest 25.11.18 12:12

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by **Jill Havern** 25.11.18 14:27

Madeleine McCann: Cops re-examine theory she wandered out of apartment looking for parents

BRITISH police are re-examining the theory that Madeleine McCann walked out of her family’s Portugal holiday apartment to look for her parents.

By Carly Read
PUBLISHED: 11:42, Sun, Nov 25, 2018 | UPDATED: 12:42, Sun, Nov 25, 2018

The development comes amid reports Scotland Yard are pursuing two vital new leads in the hunt for missing Madeleine, who vanished aged three in 2007. One of those revelations was that the tot woke up and went looking for her parents, Kate and Gerry, who were dining with friends at a nearby tapas bar. Detectives are considering the possibility the little girl was knocked down by a drink driver who put her body in a car and later buried it. Another theory, which has proven popular since the child disappeared sparking an international manhunt, was a kidnapping or a burglary gone wrong, the Sun on Sunday reports.

A source in Portugal said: “A meeting took place recently at the HQ of the General Attorney’s Office, which was attended by the prosecutor from Portimao who is in charge of the Portuguese inquiry.”

The Metropolitan Police refused to comment.

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pray2

by sar 25.11.18 14:44

...killed, body transported in car, buried (disposed of) what's the news?

A source in Portugal said: “A meeting took place recently at the HQ of the General Attorney’s Office, which was attended by the prosecutor from Portimao who is in charge of the Portuguese inquiry.”

Wonder what was said? Nothing coming from the Met? No leaks?

by Phoebe 25.11.18 15:49

No, afraid this theory won't wash. bignono

According to Kate's and Gerry's sworn testimony 3 year old Madeleine would had to have operated the shutter mechanism to raise her bedroom window's shutters, opened the bedroom window and altered the angle of the bedroom door before making off on her search for her parents. Can't see a groggy THREE YEAR OLD managing that (remember, she was sound asleep from shortly after 8pm and still slumbering soundly at 9pm when Gerry had his proud papa moment).
If the McCanns told the truth about the state of the apartment bedroom "woke and wandered" won't cut it. Oops- Must try harder!!

by Roidininki 25.11.18 16:06

Phoebe wrote:No, afraid this theory won't wash. According to Kate's and Gerry's sworn testimony 3 year old Madeleine would had to have operated the shutter mechanism to raise her bedroom window's shutters, opened the bedroom window and altered the angle of the bedroom door before making off on her search for her parents. Can't see a groggy THREE YEAR OLD managing that (remember, she was sound asleep from shortly after 8pm and still slumbering soundly at 9pm when Gerry had his proud papa moment).
If the McCanns told the truth about the state of the apartment bedroom "woke and wandered" won't cut it. Oops- Must try harder!!

But they didn’t tell the truth did they ? Insisted Madeleine wouldn’t have woke opened the gates or climbed over them and wandered . Time for the parents to be backing down now ? Not something they’ll do easily imo.
Incidentally The Mail’s saying it’s come from the Portuguese police .

by Phoebe 25.11.18 16:17

@ Roidininki Of course they didn't tell the truth! However, their tale re. the "crime scene" now sees them hoisted by their own petard.
In order for this woke and wandered nonsense to be acceptable (and leaving aside the dogs' and other evidence) the McCanns would have to admit that they lied about the state of the apartment. Now they are in a horrible bind. If they admit to having fibbed to the police and public about the state of the apartment when they "discovered Madeleine missing" then nothing else they say will be trusted.

by Doug D 25.11.18 16:41

NickE @ [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]:

I 've said it many times before, this is how the "investigation" will end.
She walked out, an hit & run accident occurred and the driver died few years ago.

Well they seem to have just about got away with this as a closure for Ben Needham, so why not try it again?

They do think we are all ‘stooooopid’ after all.

by **sandancer** 25.11.18 16:49

Phoebe wrote:@ Roidininki Of course they didn't tell the truth! However, their tale re. the "crime scene" now sees them hoisted by their own petard.
In order for this woke and wandered nonsense to be acceptable (and leaving aside the dogs' and other evidence) the McCanns would have to admit that they lied about the state of the apartment. Now they are in a horrible bind. If they admit to having fibbed to the police and public about the state of the apartment when they "discovered Madeleine missing" then nothing else they say will be trusted.

Kate did say in her honest , version of the truth

" We never lied to anyone "

Hmm , let me think , how long have we got ?

by NickE 25.11.18 18:25

Doug D wrote:NickE @ [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]:

I 've said it many times before, this is how the "investigation" will end.
She walked out, an hit & run accident occurred and the driver died few years ago.

Well they seem to have just about got away with this as a closure for Ben Needham, so why not try it again?

They do think we are all ‘stooooopid’ after all.

Yes, interesting last lines in Blacksmith latest.
"Kate and Gerry McCann are preparing us all for the news that abduction by a stranger never happened. "
If this is what's going happened, they drop the abductor, they would had some things to explain.
The open window with the whooshing curtains for example.

by suespeaking 25.11.18 20:10

A word of advice, save your money. The wandered off theory was the first one investigated, it is why police, locals and tourists were out searching for days but Kate INSISTED it was an abduction, so now £millions later and after many years operation grange want to investigate this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by **PeterMac** 25.11.18 20:37

Chapter 7

AFTERMATH

At the police station that first afternoon, Guilhermino Encarnação had briefly mentioned three potential explanations for Madeleine’s disappearance: a burglary that had ‘changed direction’, abduction and the possibility that she had wandered off by herself.
In the coming months we would learn that burglaries were rife on that stretch of the Algarve coast (in Praia da Luz, burglars were ‘like mice’, according to one resident), and although it is difficult to imagine how a burglary could escalate into an abduction, we now know that this is not unheard of.
However, I have always found the third suggestion insulting to our intelligence, frankly. Obviously, the police are obliged to consider all possible scenarios but there was no doubt in our minds that Madeleine had not left that apartment of her own accord. For a start there was Jane’s sighting of what was, in all likelihood, Madeleine being carried off. Even if you set that aside, there was no way a three-year-old would have been able to raise the shutters and open the window in the children’s room. To give any credence whatsoever to the idea that Madeleine could have walked out on her own you would have to accept that she had gone out the back way, pulling aside the sitting-room curtains and drawing them again, then opening the patio door, the child-safety gate at the top of the stairs on the veranda and the little gate to the road – and carefully closing all three behind her. What three-year-old do you know who would do that? And we knew our Madeleine. She simply would not wander off like this.

Quite so. And insulting to everyone else's too. Then and now.

by **Ladyinred** 25.11.18 21:24

Thank you, PeterMac, it is good to see you again here.

You have been missed.

by Doug D 25.11.18 22:18

Welcome back PeterMac.

KM bewk:
‘I have always found the third suggestion insulting to our intelligence, frankly’.

‘Hoisted by your own petard’ KM?

Following on from that paragraph, we then get this:

‘This theory was not only insulting, it was, much more importantly, frighteningly damaging to the chances of finding Madeleine quickly. If the police were wasting precious time pursuing it they were not going to be looking in the right places, or taking the appropriate type of action. In the first few days we gained the impression that this was exactly what was happening. Certainly their initial searches were all geared to looking for a stray child who had become lost in or around Luz.’

Maybe the Mc’s should be looking at taking the Mail/Sun/Mirror/Express etc back to court, for by putting this nonsense out, implying MM is dead, surely it will hinder the search and stop people from donating to the fund? (rhetorical)

Round and round it goes, where it stops, nobody knows.

by **sharonl** 25.11.18 23:16

Why have Operation Grange spent millions investigating a break in at the apartment? The media reported on burglaries gone wrong, a number of suspects who may have broken in and taken Madeleine, but now, all of a sudden, she wandered off and obviously there was no break in.

Have they really spent all this time and money and cannot even establish whether there was a break in or not? Even if the case was a difficult one to solve, surely working out whether a break in actually took place is basic policing and easily worked out?

by Guest 25.11.18 23:42

Phoebe wrote:@ Roidininki Of course they didn't tell the truth! However, their tale re. the "crime scene" now sees them hoisted by their own petard.
In order for this woke and wandered nonsense to be acceptable (and leaving aside the dogs' and other evidence) the McCanns would have to admit that they lied about the state of the apartment. Now they are in a horrible bind. If they admit to having fibbed to the police and public about the state of the apartment when they "discovered Madeleine missing" then nothing else they say will be trusted.

The PJ dismissed the 'state of the apartment' claimed by the McCanns and their group of friends, extending all the way down to their extended family and friends back in the UK, within minutes - for the simple reason there was no evidence to support the claim.

The McCanns, in particular Kate McCann, have been promoting the claim about 'the state of the apartment' right up to this very day.

Your point is therefore null and void for the simple reason.

by Constablekid 25.11.18 23:56

I think Operation Grange have been watching too much telly- this is the plot of that BBC drama, The Missing.

Also, if Operation Grange are suggesting that Madeleine died in a car accident, are her parents going to sue the British police as well for saying this as it will stop people searching for her and sending in their pocket money.

by Phoebe 26.11.18 0:51

Verdi wrote:
Phoebe wrote:@ Roidininki Of course they didn't tell the truth! However, their tale re. the "crime scene" now sees them hoisted by their own petard.
In order for this woke and wandered nonsense to be acceptable (and leaving aside the dogs' and other evidence) the McCanns would have to admit that they lied about the state of the apartment. Now they are in a horrible bind. If they admit to having fibbed to the police and public about the state of the apartment when they "discovered Madeleine missing" then nothing else they say will be trusted.
The PJ dismissed the 'state of the apartment' claimed by the McCanns and their group of friends, extending all the way down to their extended family and friends back in the UK, within minutes - for the simple reason there was no evidence to support the claim.

The McCanns, in particular Kate McCann, have been promoting the claim about 'the state of the apartment' right up to this very day.

Your point is therefore null and void for the simple reason.

I fail to understand your point Verdi. While it is indisputable that the P.J. dismissed the McCanns' claims about evidence of a break-in (in the form of raised shutters, the open window and the various door angles) there are, unfortunately, many among the hoi polloi who still believe that the McCanns are innocent of playing any part in their daughter's disappearance.
If woke, wandered and came to grief is now to be the put to the public as the solution, then the obstacle of the raised shutters and open window will present a problem to this theory's credibility. The public have been told over and over that the shutters and window and had been opened. No-one in his right mind would accept that a 3 year old managed to do this.
Interestingly, this alleged "latest" theory rules out the "Eureka moment" Smith sighting being of any relevance. After all, no hypothetical driver, having knocked down a child, would abandon his car and make off with the victim on foot when he had at his disposal a vehicle in which to secret the evidence of his crime.

by NickE 26.11.18 6:11

Constablekid wrote:I think Operation Grange have been watching too much telly- this is the plot of that BBC drama, The Missing.

Also, if Operation Grange are suggesting that Madeleine died in a car accident, are her parents going to sue the British police as well for saying this as it will stop people searching for her and sending in their pocket money.

If they actually are investigate a car accident I wonder if they are looking at Jenny Murat's story about the "wrong way car" at 9pm.

"Jenny Murat has spoken of seeing a car driving the wrong way down a one-way street around the time she vanished.
Mrs Murat, who lives around 100 yards from the Ocean Club complex where the McCanns were staying, said she saw a car driving the wrong way down a one-way street at around 9pm on May 3, 2007.
I saw the driver, I was beside the driver. Both of us looked at each other. I think he had a very British look about him."

And I also wonder if Murat's story has something to do with Haley May Crawfords statement.

"After her boyfriend had completed the service, at about 21H00, they went to the resort reception with the aim of her boyfriend collecting a service vehicle.

For this purpose, the witness and her boyfriend travelled in her car, a Peugeot model 106, metallic grey in colour, along various roads of the resort, having taken the road adjacent to the pool and Tapas restaurant area, passing by the apartment where Madeleine and her family were staying, according to what she was subsequently informed about the location.

When questioned, the witness states that when she travelled along the roads in question, which make up the resort, and principally those which she later learnt were adjacent to the apartment where Madeleine was staying and disappeared from, close to the Tapas restaurant, which she did at about 21H00, (03 May, 2007) the witness states that she saw no vehicle, person or other situation that she considered suspicious that could be directly or indirectly related to the facts being investigated.

When asked, the witness states that after her boyfriend had collected a service vehicle, from the Ocean Club reception, which took place at about 21H00, they both went to her home, but in separate vehicles, arriving at about 21H15."

by Roidininki 26.11.18 6:55

Constablekid wrote:I think Operation Grange have been watching too much telly- this is the plot of that BBC drama, The Missing.

Also, if Operation Grange are suggesting that Madeleine died in a car accident, are her parents going to sue the British police as well for saying this as it will stop people searching for her and sending in their pocket money.

Yes I remembered that plot too ! They buried the body under a road didn’t they ?

Re what Jenny Murat said . Who did the 9 p.m check on apt.5a ? Madeleine would have had to have been out of the apt. If it was this car who had or was going g to knock her down ?

by Guest 26.11.18 11:41

Remember this is a tabloid press report - not any old tabloid but The Sun, the lowest of the low.

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by Roidininki 26.11.18 12:00

Verdi wrote:Remember this is a tabloid press report - not any old tabloid but The Sun, the lowest of the low.

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The Mail Online article too ?