New from PeterMac! Chapter 30: Forget Facts, Focus on the Fallacies

by **Jill Havern** 07.10.18 20:02

Chapter 30: Forget the Facts - Focus on the Fallacies

https://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.com/2016/08/chapter-30-forget-facts-focus-on.html

by Phoebe 07.10.18 20:56

Well said that man!

by Guest 07.10.18 21:01

It is then sometimes referred to as the Argument by repeated assertion.

This does not reinforce the argument. In some cases it may make it weaker in the minds of perceptive listeners, as the lack of any supporting evidence is exposed.

Amen to that !!!

by worriedmum 07.10.18 23:26

A brilliant analysis, Peter.

by Guest 08.10.18 0:52

In fact the main Red Herring which was pulled across the trail of the PJ was the insistence by 9 professional people that everything happened on the evening of Thursday 3rd May 2007 between 9:10pm and 9:50pm.

The entire investigation - the witness statements; the media reports; the UK establishment influence; was all built on lies and deception. Lies and deception perpetrated by the key players - the McCanns.

For this reason alone, the PJ were prevented from undertaking a routine police investigation. The information they were working on was seriously flawed - it was lies and deception created by the McCanns and their friends and associates.

They investigated the abduction hypothesis because that was what they were told. They wasted extensive time and money on false leads and sightings created by a source close to the McCann faction. They were duped time and time again until the bona-fide, the official investigation, ground to a halt.

As fast as new developments arose in the investigation the hole was plugged. Rule out Thursday 3rd May and the whole masquerade is un-plugged - no Madeleine seen on the afternoon/evening of 3rd May, no Tannerman, no Sagresman, no Smithman, no crecheman - just a flood flushing out and drowning all the lies and deception.

The red herring is no more - done up like a kipper !!! Caught - hook line and sinker New from PeterMac! Chapter 30: Forget Facts, Focus on the Fallacies 1f3a3

New from PeterMac! Chapter 30: Forget Facts, Focus on the Fallacies 1f3a3

!!!

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Gonçalo Amaral and his team of detectives have been thoroughly humiliated - indeed, so has the Portuguese nation.

by Sundance 08.10.18 7:49

Verdi wrote:
For this reason alone, the PJ were prevented from undertaking a routine police investigation. The information they were working on was seriously flawed - it was lies and deception created by the McCanns and their friends and associates.
Isn't that what most criminals do by default?

They were duped time and time again until the bona-fide, the official investigation, ground to a halt.
I'm pretty sure that GA had them sussed pretty early on. He smelt a rat upon setting eyes on the scene for the first time ('why had the beds been stripped'), quickly ascertained there was no sign of a break in and cast doubt on the McCann narrative the very next day with the suffix of '??' after abduction. I don't think he / they were ever duped, but routinely stymied.

by Phoebe 08.10.18 11:03

Sundance wrote:
Verdi wrote:
For this reason alone, the PJ were prevented from undertaking a routine police investigation. The information they were working on was seriously flawed - it was lies and deception created by the McCanns and their friends and associates.
Isn't that what most criminals do by default?

They were duped time and time again until the bona-fide, the official investigation, ground to a halt.
I'm pretty sure that GA had them sussed pretty early on. He smelt a rat upon setting eyes on the scene for the first time ('why had the beds been stripped'), quickly ascertained there was no sign of a break in and cast doubt on the McCann narrative the very next day with the suffix of '??' after abduction. I don't think he / they were ever duped, but routinely stymied.

I agree Sundance. From the files it is clear that the P.J. were not duped but rather they were stymied by the McCanns and their powerful supporters, including diplomatic staff. The P.J. were prevented from holding a thorough reconstruction of what happened that evening after Madeleine went to high tea. They were not even allowed to take the McCanns clothing for forensic analysis. They quickly saw through the "checking routine" lies, David Payne's alleged visit, Matthew Oldfield's alleged check, Jane Tanner's fabrication of Tannerman etc. As experienced investigators they would expect lies and deception from witnesses and would be able to spot it a mile off!
I do strongly agree with Peter Mac's analysis re. the nature of argument. Ignoring evidence in favour of an argument does not make that argument stronger, no matter how many times it is repeated nor how many times it is alleged that the numbers who believe in an argument must make it a fact! My children used to use that technique form a very early age - "Everyone else is allowed to have one!": "All my friends' mothers are letting my friends do it!"
It didn't work then either. big grin

by Guest 08.10.18 13:11

PeterMac, a former senior police officer, has studied this case since the beginning , through the forensic lens of a seasoned cop - a cop who knows all the tricks of the trade, the intricacies of a criminal investigation. PeterMac doesn't work for financial gain nor public adoration with TV or radio studio appearances/interviews, he works only for justice in the name of Madeleine McCann.

PeterMac had this to say about the PJ investigation, in this latest chapter to his e-book..

PeterMac wrote:The Red Herring is a reference to a stinky fish dragged across a trail being followed by hounds in order to divert them by leaving a stronger scent.

In fact the main Red Herring which was pulled across the trail of the PJ was the insistence by 9 professional people that everything happened on the evening of Thursday 3rd May 2007 between 9:10pm and 9:50pm. (see also Appeal to authority, post.)

It was wholly successful.

The PJ, and almost everyone else concentrated on that day and date, those times, and the description of the situation in the apartment, and tried to make everything fit within them.

Duped!

by Sundance 08.10.18 13:22

Verdi wrote:PeterMac, a former senior police officer, has studied this case since the beginning , through the forensic lens of a seasoned cop - a cop who knows all the tricks of the trade.

Like DI Edgar.

by Phoebe 08.10.18 13:36

One of the Tapas 9, Jane Tanner, claimed to have actually witnessed Madeleine being abducted at around 9.15.p.m.
No police force, duped or not duped, could be seen failing to act on this information.
Just because the P.J. had to investigate this claim does not mean they were duped (as is clearly shown by the P.J.'s and Dr. Amaral's opinions on the lies and fabrications offered by the tapas chums).
IMO, the P.J. investigation under Dr. Amaral (who had the advantage of being on the spot while this investigation took place, something only he and his officers had) was advancing well, despite opposition.
It was only after Dr. Amaral's removal and the flight of the Tapas 9, including the McCanns, that the investigation faltered.
No longer able to question the witnesses and arguidos face to face or to mount a meaningful reconstruction, the case was over. The archiving process was merely the coup de grace for what has been aptly termed -"the interrupted investigation".

by Liz Eagles 08.10.18 19:12

@Pheobe

When was the last time you bought clothes in UK labelled size 6.

by Phoebe 08.10.18 19:32

As I haven't lived in the UK for many years I don't tend to buy my clothes there. My adult daughter however, fits very neatly into a 6 (American jeans-dresses-etc. of course) She has left the most fantastic pair of trousers in her bedroom which I positively covet! Oh! to be young again!! big grin

by Guest 08.10.18 21:20

Sundance wrote:
Verdi wrote:PeterMac, a former senior police officer, has studied this case since the beginning , through the forensic lens of a seasoned cop - a cop who knows all the tricks of the trade.
Like DI Edgar.

What is?

by Guest 08.10.18 22:10

This new PeterMac e-book Chapter 30 'Forget Facts, Focus on the Fallacies' is much like Peter Mac's previous e-book Chapter 29 'Fake News' - it is a package designed to show a correlation between the different synonyms relative to lies and deception.

They both require some consideration before commenting otherwise they are open to misinterpretation - just like the many facets of the PJ investigation files. Here, it seems to me that commentary so far shows a total misunderstanding of the undertones and overtones of the subject matter - either through lack of attention or deliberate misinterpretation to fit a particular mindset. Either way, clearly the message is being wrongly applied.

The latest chapter is not intended to be an attack against any specific member of CMoMM, it is a global view of how opinion has been obscured by the primary protagonists, their friends and family and their paid accomplices.

Both chapters when read with attention, convey the same message - lies and deception. These lies and deception guided the PJ investigation and global coverage of the investigation into a blind alley. You only need read the PJ files covering the case from 3rd May 2007 to the archiving process and subsequently Goncalo Amaral's book to realise how effective the McCann faction subterfuge was and still is.

A lot of water has passed under the bridge since the case was archived in the summer of 2008. Like any criminal investigation - time doesn't stand still until a case is solved. Sometimes not even then.

The PJ, like the world in general, were well and truly duped.

by Phoebe 08.10.18 22:45

Dr. Amaral has said (many years after the case was archived) that the answers to solving the Madeleine case lie in the evidence garnered in the first 6 months of the investigation.
It has been suggested that he lost interest after he was removed and in the subsequent years. This assertion is not borne out by his public comments on the case up to and including last year. I can think of no one who has more motivation to remain interested! After all, this case ruined his career, his marriage, his financial stability and threatens his reputation.
He was instrumental in gathering and collating the bulk of the evidence contained in the P.J. files. These files still form the basis of any investigation on which others have since embarked. He was the one who had a ringside seat as the events unfolded. He had access to witnesses, alibis, arguidos, informal interviews and information and the local "grapevine". He could watch and listen as liars squirmed and blustered. He was an experienced senior office with the incalculable advantage of being there as events unfolded. I, for one, see no reason not to trust his copper's nose.

by joyce1938 08.10.18 23:39

Phoebe wrote: Well said that man!

Seems to me that MI5 already have the answers ,when we rad WHEN MI5 REVEAL ,WE SHALL KNOW .sO THEY ALLREADY KNOW ?joyce1938

by Tony Cadogan 09.10.18 2:08

Verdi wrote:This new PeterMac e-book Chapter 30 'Forget Facts, Focus on the Fallacies' is much like Peter Mac's previous e-book Chapter 29 'Fake News' - it is a package designed to show a correlation between the different synonyms relative to lies and deception.

They both require some consideration before commenting otherwise they are open to misinterpretation - just like the many facets of the PJ investigation files. Here, it seems to me that commentary so far shows a total misunderstanding of the undertones and overtones of the subject matter - either through lack of attention or deliberate misinterpretation to fit a particular mindset. Either way, clearly the message is being wrongly applied.

The latest chapter is not intended to be an attack against any specific member of CMoMM, it is a global view of how opinion has been obscured by the primary protagonists, their friends and family and their paid accomplices.

Both chapters when read with attention, convey the same message - lies and deception. These lies and deception guided the PJ investigation and global coverage of the investigation into a blind alley. You only need read the PJ files covering the case from 3rd May 2007 to the archiving process and subsequently Goncalo Amaral's book to realise how effective the McCann faction subterfuge was and still is.

A lot of water has passed under the bridge since the case was archived in the summer of 2008. Like any criminal investigation - time doesn't stand still until a case is solved. Sometimes not even then.

The PJ, like the world in general, were well and truly duped.

“The PJ … were well and truly duped”

Is it your view therefore that, for instance, the report by Chief Inspector Tavares de Almeida (http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TAVARES_ALMEIDA.htm) is indicative of the PJ's having been “well and truly duped”?

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TAVARES_ALMEIDA.htm

by Sundance 09.10.18 7:38

Verdi wrote:
Sundance wrote:
Verdi wrote:PeterMac, a former senior police officer, has studied this case since the beginning , through the forensic lens of a seasoned cop - a cop who knows all the tricks of the trade.
Like DI Edgar.
What is?

....a former senior police officer, who has studied this case since the beginning, through the forensic lens of a seasoned cop - a cop who knows all the tricks of the trade.

by Sundance 09.10.18 9:31

Tony Cadogan wrote:
Verdi wrote:This new PeterMac e-book Chapter 30 'Forget Facts, Focus on the Fallacies' is much like Peter Mac's previous e-book Chapter 29 'Fake News' - it is a package designed to show a correlation between the different synonyms relative to lies and deception.

They both require some consideration before commenting otherwise they are open to misinterpretation - just like the many facets of the PJ investigation files. Here, it seems to me that commentary so far shows a total misunderstanding of the undertones and overtones of the subject matter - either through lack of attention or deliberate misinterpretation to fit a particular mindset. Either way, clearly the message is being wrongly applied.

The latest chapter is not intended to be an attack against any specific member of CMoMM, it is a global view of how opinion has been obscured by the primary protagonists, their friends and family and their paid accomplices.

Both chapters when read with attention, convey the same message - lies and deception. These lies and deception guided the PJ investigation and global coverage of the investigation into a blind alley. You only need read the PJ files covering the case from 3rd May 2007 to the archiving process and subsequently Goncalo Amaral's book to realise how effective the McCann faction subterfuge was and still is.

A lot of water has passed under the bridge since the case was archived in the summer of 2008. Like any criminal investigation - time doesn't stand still until a case is solved. Sometimes not even then.

The PJ, like the world in general, were well and truly duped.
“The PJ … were well and truly duped”

Is it your view therefore that, for instance, the report by Chief Inspector Tavares de Almeida (http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TAVARES_ALMEIDA.htm) is indicative of the PJ's having been “well and truly duped”?

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TAVARES_ALMEIDA.htm

That Almeida statement excoriates the whole McCann narrative and succinctly describes the various ways in which they were not buying any of their horses*** from the get go.
As I mentioned earlier, which was totally ignored, is that Dr. Amaral in his own words, in his own book called bulls*** from the moment he clapped eyes on the scene.

There was no 'duping', but there was a carefully orchestrated campaign of obfuscation, connivance and hindrance that purposely took the focus away from the epicentre. They were duty bound to round up all of the wild geese to ensure due diligence, but it was apparent that they were continually frustrated with these multifarious exercises in futility to the point of incredulity. They even had to accommodate some random South African crackpot with a mystical 'dead person machine', but weren't allowed to inspect the inner gubbins (in case they discovered the 'science' based quantum housebrick that was providing ballast) 'The Truth of the Lie, Chapter 14 - 'Without being convinced as to the validity of the method, the police end up acceding to their request.' (Which is polite code for '....It's preposterous, but please, be my guest'.)

by **Jill Havern** 09.10.18 10:43

Email from PeterMac:

Interesting that one or two are saying that the Red Herring was not successful, since GA did not accept it, and had in fact seen past it by the end of day 1.
That may be true, but he couldn't get out of it, and 2105 - 2200: 3/5/7 remained the official time and date right until it was Archived.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/P_J_FINAL_REPORT.htm

Type of Crime – Unknown

Time and Place – Between 21H05 and 22H00 of the day 3 May of 2007, at the G5A apartment, located at the touristic resort ‘Ocean Club’, Vila da Luz, Lagos.

* * * * *
According to the Time and Place, the facts occurred on the day 3 of May of 2007, in a temporal hiatus, understood to be between 21H05 and 22H00 (being certain that after 17H30, only GERALD and KATE had contact with MADELEINE) at the resort named 'Ocean Club', located in Vila da Luz, Lagos, place, where the minor’s family, along with seven other persons, with whom they had a friendship relationship, where enjoying some holidays, with the duration of one week.

* * * *
From the documentation, you will observe that during the investigation various possibilities were contemplated.

As such, consider:

1. abduction, for sexual exploration or other (e.g, later adoption, child trafficking, organ trafficking), without homicide;

2. abduction, followed by homicide with (or without) hiding of the corpse;

3. accidental death, with later hiding of the corpse;

The Hypothesis 1 and 2 were considered in the double notion of the illicit of abduction (if that happened) that could have had occurred due to feelings of revenge by the
Kidnapper(s) towards the parents (intended abduction) or by taking merely the opportunity of the child being at a vulnerable situation (opportunity abduction).

As a remote hypothesis, the possibility of the minor leaving the apartment by her own means was explored – that would be highly unlikely physically – and after, because of an accident or by a third person intervention, she would have disappeared.

* * * *
In conclusion, it results from everything that has been done, despite the efforts that were made and all investigation lines being explored, that it is not possible to obtain a solid and objective conclusion about what really happened that night, and about the present location of the missing minor.

* * *

* * C O N C L U S I O N * *

Portimao, 20th of June 2008

Quod erat demonstrandum. The Red Herring was wholly successful.

by Rogue-a-Tory 09.10.18 11:07

Sundance wrote:
Verdi wrote:
Sundance wrote:
Verdi wrote:PeterMac, a former senior police officer, has studied this case since the beginning , through the forensic lens of a seasoned cop - a cop who knows all the tricks of the trade.
Like DI Edgar.
What is?
....a former senior police officer, who has studied this case since the beginning, through the forensic lens of a seasoned cop - a cop who knows all the tricks of the trade.

PeterMac has explored this case on an evidence and factual based approach. Edgar has focused on nonsensical theories that have been easily exposed as false or even claptrap. Peter Mac is nothing like DI Edgar.

by Phoebe 09.10.18 11:15

After Dr. Amaral was removed from the case, and those involved as arguidos and witnesses fled Portuguese jurisdiction, the P.J. investigation, IMO, clearly lost its teeth and has remained gummy ever since, save for the "last sting of the dying wasp" comment by the Supreme Court, which may have salvaged some national pride.

One only has to look at the differences between the interim report of Taveres Da Almedia which leads off with -

The minor, Madeleine McCann died in apartment 5A on the night of May 3rd.
There was a simulation of an abduction.
Kate and Gerald McCann are involved in the occultation of the cadaver of their child Madeleine McCann.

Then compare to the final report months after Dr. Amaral's removal from the lead -

Now the P.J. cannot even state what type of crime they are investigating, let alone who might be involved!!

IMO, such a volte face was not due to being "duped" by any red herring, rather it was due to potential political ramifications.
Those suspected under Dr. Amaral's watch were no longer in Portugal and forcing them to return would have involved making legal appeals to a government who had publicly supported the suspects and whose ambassador had prevented the P.J (under G.A.) from gathering evidence.

From my reading of the final report the "red herring" would have had to have thrown the P.J. so completely off the scent that they no longer had any idea of what had even happened to Madeleine or whether she had indeed been abducted as her parents claim!

I do agree that the P.J. changed their tune after Dr. Amaral was publicly and forcefully removed from the investigation but, I honestly doubt they were "duped". To me they were warned off and capitulated to pressure.

by ferrotty 09.10.18 20:33

As a remote hypothesis, the possibility of the minor leaving the apartment by her own means was explored – that would be highly unlikely physically – and after, because of an accident or by a third person intervention, she would have disappeared.

If Madeline did wander out of the apartment then surely in her half asleep mode she's not going to close the door behind her children just don't do that.

by Ruffian 10.10.18 1:40

The McCanns were still arguidos and as such could not refuse to return to Portugal ... is my understanding
Taveres Da Almedia report was his opinion on the case up until September
If you read his report in full you will see its based on no evidence, mainly hearsay
He finishes the report suggesting further investigations are required.
The investigation carried on even after he left the PJ and the conclusion in 08 was:

In conclusion, it is the result of all that has been done, despite the efforts made and all lines of research explored,

it was not possible to determine the specific circumstances of the disappearance of the minor and, consequently, to know her current location or whereabouts.

On the other hand, it should be noted that this investigation was conducted under conditions of exceptional media scrutiny, with the publication of immense "news" of imprecise, inaccurate or even false content, which did nothing to uncover the truth, on the contrary, raised further difficulties for investigation.

Consequently, it is not for the time being that any other procedural step capable of producing a useful result for the present proceedings is submitted to me for consideration, to deign to determine what is convenient, in which I open:

*** CONCLUSION * »* Portimão, June 30, 2008

by Guest 10.10.18 2:06

Sundance wrote:
Verdi wrote:
Sundance wrote:
Verdi wrote:PeterMac, a former senior police officer, has studied this case since the beginning , through the forensic lens of a seasoned cop - a cop who knows all the tricks of the trade.
Like DI Edgar.
What is?
....a former senior police officer, who has studied this case since the beginning, through the forensic lens of a seasoned cop - a cop who knows all the tricks of the trade.

You really do need to brush up on the case if you think David Edgar is an honourable gent.

The bloke is a buffoon. A paid accomplice, I'd go so far as to say a crook - a perverter of justice. Use the forum search function and all will be revealed.

New from PeterMac! Chapter 30: Forget Facts, Focus on the Fallacies Article-0-05F9243F000005DC-237_468x286

New from PeterMac! Chapter 30: Forget Facts, Focus on the Fallacies Article-0-05F9243F000005DC-237_468x286

by Sundance 10.10.18 8:49

Verdi wrote:
Sundance wrote:
Verdi wrote:
Sundance wrote:
Verdi wrote:PeterMac, a former senior police officer, has studied this case since the beginning , through the forensic lens of a seasoned cop - a cop who knows all the tricks of the trade.
Like DI Edgar.
What is?
....a former senior police officer, who has studied this case since the beginning, through the forensic lens of a seasoned cop - a cop who knows all the tricks of the trade.
You really do need to brush up on the case if you think David Edgar is an honourable gent.

The bloke is a buffoon. A paid accomplice, I'd go so far as to say a crook - a perverter of justice. Use the forum search function and all will be revealed.

I never mentioned his abilities or otherwise, I simply stated that he is a former senior police officer, has studied this case since the beginning , through the forensic lens of a seasoned cop - a cop who knows all the tricks of the trade.
I don't need to 'brush up on the case' or 'use the search function' to assert this.

by Guest 10.10.18 13:26

@Sundance

With respect, your comments past and present indicate a painful ignorance as regards facts and documented information appertaining to the case of missing Madeleine McCann. You present information to imply fact when indeed it's totally inaccurate, as you make sweeping geenral statements that are misleading to forum members and readers.

I ask that you be mindful of the forum's reputation and integrity. This is primarily an investigative forum with a genuine goal, it's not a place for general garden fence chit-chat; this is the reason I recommend you brush-up on the finer detail before opining on the open forum.

Such a casual attitude towards fact, evidence and accuracy is seriously detrimental to the work of CMoMM. The forum is visited daily by many many people, the genuine come here because it's the right place for factual information, informed opinion, exemplary research and analysis in addition to being a comprehensive reference point, expanded daily. It's taken many years to get where CMoMM is today, fine tuning to rid the forum of erroneous information and idle hands, to achieve the dedication necessary for a professional presentation of research and investigation.

I'm confident in saying, sometime in the future, CMoMM will be a reference source for academics across the globe - I don't wish to see that future jeopardised by careless commentary.

Please respect the forum as the forum respects you. Thank you.

by Sundance 10.10.18 13:33

Verdi wrote:With respect, your comments past and present indicate a painful ignorance as regards facts and documented information appertaining to the case of missing Madeleine McCann. You present information to imply fact when indeed it's totally inaccurate, as you make sweeping geenral statements that are misleading to forum members and readers.

Could you post a couple of examples?

I ask that you be mindful of the forum's reputation and integrity.

Such a casual attitude towards fact, evidence and accuracy is seriously detrimental to the work of CMoMM. The forum is visited daily by many many people, the genuine come here because it's the right place for factual information, informed opinion, exemplary research and analysis in addition to being a comprehensive reference point, expanded daily. It's taken many years to get where CMoMM is today, fine tuning to rid the forum of erroneous information and idle hands, to achieve the dedication necessary for a professional presentation of research and investigation.

Like this libelous statement, you mean? : The bloke is a buffoon. A paid accomplice, I'd go so far as to say a crook - a perverter of justice.

by Phoebe 10.10.18 14:02

What I have difficulty in understanding is why there is appears to be such a negative reaction to any suggestion that Peter Mac might not be correct in his conclusion that the P.J. were duped!

Peter Mac has stated in his e-book that he believes Madeleine was sedated and that this contributed to her fatal accident. He also states that he believes the children were left alone and unsupervised while the adults dined, and that, this too, contributed to Madeleine's death. There seems to be no problem with people who express disagreement with Peter on these points, but great issue is taken with those disagreeing with him on the "duping" issue. Such inconsistency is most odd.

Verdi has rightly stated that Peter M. is -

"A former seasoned police officer who has studied this case since the beginning through the forensic lens of a seasoned cop- a cop who knows all the tricks of the trade".

And yet such qualities do not prevent people, including Verdi himself, from disagreeing with Peter over issues such as neglect and sedation.
Therefore it seems inconsistent and rather unfair to deny other posters their right to disagree with Peter on any other issue.

I am also constantly mindful of the fact that Dr. Amaral, (whom some allege was duped) is also a -

"former seasoned police officer who has studied this case since the beginning (indeed, he alone, was ACTUALLY there on the scene!) through the forensic lens of a seasoned cop - a cop who knows all the tricks of the trade"

If the above attributes render someone credible and unlikely to be tricked, then logically, Dr. Amaral is credible and unlikely to have been tricked.

by Liz Eagles 10.10.18 14:50

Dear Pheobe,

Thou doth ptotest too much.

Why not take a little time to consider this forum is dedicated to finding justice for a little girl instead of snipping at the heels of anyone who takes issue with your well written and flowery posts.

Stop having a go at Verdi because Verdi does much more than you could ever hope to achieve on the forum.