The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Welcome to 'The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann' forum 🌹

Please log in, or register to view all the forums as some of them are 'members only', then settle in and help us get to the truth about what really happened to Madeleine Beth McCann.

When you register please do NOT use your email address for a username because everyone will be able to see it!

Documented Evidence - Page 14 Mm11

Documented Evidence - Page 14 Regist10
The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Welcome to 'The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann' forum 🌹

Please log in, or register to view all the forums as some of them are 'members only', then settle in and help us get to the truth about what really happened to Madeleine Beth McCann.

When you register please do NOT use your email address for a username because everyone will be able to see it!

Documented Evidence - Page 14 Mm11

Documented Evidence - Page 14 Regist10

Documented Evidence

Page 13 of 16 Previous  1 ... 8 ... 12, 13, 14, 15, 16  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Documented Evidence - Page 14 Empty Re: Documented Evidence

Post by Verdi 07.08.21 17:05

Well, as I say the image does feature on the mccannpjfiles forum but not on the page of officially documented forensic photographs.

I'm very interested to know the provenance of the image, it doesn't look genuine to me even though it shows the PJ watermark. I guess it's easy to 'adjust' an image to include such.

The focal point of interest is however the fact that I don't believe the image was ever included in the official PJ documentation. I could of course be wrong.

It's worth looking into. If I'm right, it casts doubt on the range of information on the mccannpjfiles. One trifling anomaly OK but what else could be considered doubtful?

There is so much wrong with this case, it's hard to know who and what to trust.

sad

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
Verdi
Verdi
ex moderator
ex moderator

Posts : 34677
Activity : 41927
Likes received : 5932
Join date : 2015-02-02
Location : Flossery

crusader likes this post

Back to top Go down

Documented Evidence - Page 14 Empty Re: Documented Evidence

Post by crusader 07.08.21 17:19

I'm now thinking I've read somewhere the blue bag was photographed in the early hours of 4th May but missing in the photo's later that day and just assumed it was taken by Joao Barreiras.

If it was taken by J Barreiras, it should be with the other photo's taken by him.

I think you could well be right Verdi.

I'm going to keep rummaging.
crusader
crusader
Forum support

Posts : 6515
Activity : 6866
Likes received : 345
Join date : 2019-03-12

Back to top Go down

Documented Evidence - Page 14 Empty Re: Documented Evidence

Post by Jill Havern 07.08.21 17:22

Shouldn't these blue bag posts be moved to the debate section?

____________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
A wise man once said: "Be careful who you let on your ship,
because some people will sink the whole ship just because they can't be The Captain."
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]MAGA    [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]MBGA
Jill Havern
Jill Havern
The Captain (& Chief Faffer) Oh yeah, and Forum Owner
The Captain (& Chief Faffer) Oh yeah, and Forum Owner

Posts : 30861
Activity : 43671
Likes received : 7756
Join date : 2009-11-25
Location : Parallel universe

https://thecompletemysteryofmadeleinemccann.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Documented Evidence - Page 14 Empty Re: Documented Evidence

Post by Verdi 07.08.21 17:32

Yes I have that in mind. Firstly I wanted to see which way it was heading, before making a decision.

Consider it in hand thumbsup

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
Verdi
Verdi
ex moderator
ex moderator

Posts : 34677
Activity : 41927
Likes received : 5932
Join date : 2015-02-02
Location : Flossery

Jill Havern likes this post

Back to top Go down

Documented Evidence - Page 14 Empty Posts moved

Post by Verdi 08.08.21 1:52

I've had a good old rummage about the forum and outside, unfortunately can't find anything constructive that takes this forward.

The basis of past discussion of this enigmatic image of what resembles a bag of some sorts in the wardrobe in the bedroom occupied by Gerry and Kate McCann, it's the same image across the board but never shown as part of the documented forensic PJ photographic evidence of the crime scene.

I was hoping to merge past threads on the subject here on CMOMM but they are very old and defunct and for the most part just general chit chat.

So for that reason, I will move the posts from the member's lounge to another thread tomorrow, probably the 'Documented Evidence' thread as that seems the most appropriate at this stage.

Forewarned is forearmed.

If you find anything crusader, let us know!

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
Verdi
Verdi
ex moderator
ex moderator

Posts : 34677
Activity : 41927
Likes received : 5932
Join date : 2015-02-02
Location : Flossery

crusader likes this post

Back to top Go down

Documented Evidence - Page 14 Empty Re: Documented Evidence

Post by Verdi 23.08.21 15:08

Many years ago there was a website set-up to debunk a lot of the rumour circulating the world wide web about the case of missing Madeleine McCann.

I can't recall who was behind the site, if I ever knew, but that is beside the point.

The important thing is, the debunking was spot on! Either downright (probably deliberate) lie; misinterpretation; tenuous interpretation; video editing and text editing. I did my own 'fact checking' and although my findings didn't go down too well with those garden fence gossips who are only interested in scandal. nonetheless the forum myths were debunked!

Would you believe it still goes on to this very day. No matter how many times you provide evidence of a falsity, people just ignore and carry on propagating nonsense regardless.

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
Verdi
Verdi
ex moderator
ex moderator

Posts : 34677
Activity : 41927
Likes received : 5932
Join date : 2015-02-02
Location : Flossery

Back to top Go down

Documented Evidence - Page 14 Empty Re: Documented Evidence

Post by crusader 23.08.21 17:46

In a tv interview Feb 2012, G Amaral was being interviewed, (I'll post the link at the end if I can) for anyone who hasn't seen it.

They were discussing at one point, the blue bag.

G Amaral said Mark Harrison put forward the hypothesis that the body was taken inside a sports bag or golf bag after seeing photos taken inside 5A.

In his 23/7/07  statement, Harrison says this report considers solely the possibility that Madeleine has been murdered and her body concealed within Praia da Luz.

Up until then, the search was based on rescue and recovery to locate a missing child, alive or dead, not as a victim of crime.

crusader
crusader
Forum support

Posts : 6515
Activity : 6866
Likes received : 345
Join date : 2019-03-12

Back to top Go down

Documented Evidence - Page 14 Empty Re: Documented Evidence

Post by Verdi 30.08.21 14:14

5 - 14 APENSOS V, Volume XIV Pages 29 to 50 (pdf) or 2971 TO 2992
Date: 2008/05/06

Service Information

To: The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation, Paolo Rebelo

From: Ricardo Paiva

Subject: Roman Tunnels in Praia da Luz, for annexing to the case files.


Within the scope of the investigation of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, the British police recently sent this police force the emails that are annexed, containing information about the possible existence of ancient underground tunnels of Roman origin in Praia da Luz, which presumably cross the entire village and which could be the subject of investigation by this police force.

Within this context and the aim of checking the accuracy of these emails on this date Engineer Martins from the Department of Urbanism and Infrastructure from the Lagos Municipal Chamber was contacted, he immediately supplied us with a CD with the cartography of the sewerage network of Praia da Luz at underground level, which shows that there are only tunnels for rainwater evacuation. These maps were printed and are annexed to this service report.

For your information

Signed

Inspector Ricardo Paiva

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
Verdi
Verdi
ex moderator
ex moderator

Posts : 34677
Activity : 41927
Likes received : 5932
Join date : 2015-02-02
Location : Flossery

crusader likes this post

Back to top Go down

Documented Evidence - Page 14 Empty Re: Documented Evidence

Post by Verdi 08.09.21 13:54

Portimao Criminal Investigation Department
201/07.OGALGS
O INSPECTOR
M.P.
ATTACHED
On this date, I attached to these official papers 3 computer printed pages, relating to the description of the events, that have been collectively prepared by the nine people of the group in question, that was delivered to this Police Officer by the British Liaison Official, before the start of re-questioning of those same people.
Portimao, 10 May 2007
INSPECTOR
M.P.
========================================
[3 page attachment] Pages 887-890
Original written in English.
Sequence of Events: Thursday 3rd May 2007 - 2030 to 2200
As recalled by:

Gerry McCann - 5A
Kate McCann - 5A
David Payne - 5H (First floor)
Fiona Payne - 5H (First floor)
Dianne Webster - 5H (First floor)
Jane Tanner - 5D
Russell O'Brien - 5D
Matthew Oldfield - 5B
Rachael Oldfield - 5B

Times shown are approximate, but accurate to the best of our knowledge.

Prior to 2030, a11 couples and children were in their apartments preparing for bedtime.
-5A (Madeleine, Amelie and Sean McCann).
-5B (G**** Oldfield),
-5D (E*** and E***O'Brien) and
-5H (L*** and S******* Payne)

2030: Standard booking for meal at Tapas restaurant for group - same all week (Sun-Thur)
2035: Gerry McCann (GM) and Kate McCann (KC) arrive at table at Tapas Restaurant.
2040: Jane Tanner (JT) arrives, followed shortly by Matthew Oldfield (MO) and Rachael Mampilly Oldfield (RMO).
2045: Russell O'Brien (RJO) arrives at table.
2055: MO returns to apartments to check on ground floor flats, passing David Payne (DP), Fiona Payne (FP) and her mother Dianne Webster (DW) on their way down to the table.
2057: MO listens outside all ground floor flats' windows on the car park side of the apartment (5A, 5B and 5D) to make sure they were asleep. At this time, all the shutters were down on each window.
2100: MO return to the table. Starters were ordered.
2105: GM returns to his flat (5A) and enters via the patio gate entrance. This and a child gate at the top of the stairs were closed at the time. He enters the flat via the patio door which is closed but unlocked.
The door is slightly ajar (about 45 degrees) which is unusual. All the 3 children were present and asleep. GM believes the shutter was down. The room in which the children are asleep is completely dark. On leaving the room, GM shuts the door to approximately 5 degrees. He then goes to the toilet to urinate.
2115: JT leaves table, and sees GM talking with fellow resident ("Jez" Wilkins) outside the patio gate of 5A. The two were standing just up the hill from the gate towards Rua A. da Silva Road. She did not speak to GM as she passed.
As JT continued up the hill towards the junction with Rua A. da Silva, she sees a man carrying a child in his arms crossing left to right from the apartment side continuing east along Rua A. da Silva in the direction of the "Millennium Restaurant." He was on the same side of the road as JT 5-10 metres ahead of her.

Description of Man:
- Age 35 to 40.
- 1.7m tal1 approximately with a slim build.
- Good head of dark glossy hair, with possible flick of hair to the right. The hair was longer at the back (i.e not clippered or shaven).
- The central and the left side of the face were not seen.
- Full length trousers, casual, the material hanging without creases. The colour was possibly a browny mustard. They were not jeans.
- Long sleeved jacket, fastened at the front, possibly by a zipper. It had a gathered lower hem and was also possibly brownish in colour.
- Shoes may have been a semi-formal brogue.
- Whether he was wearing gloves or not could not be ascertained.
- He was not wearing a rucksack or any other identifiable objects.
- He was only carrying a child, with the head against the left upper chest away from JT and the feet to the right - i.e. cradling the child like a baby.
- He appeared to be walking in a rush to get somewhere.
- He was not someone JT recognised from the week.
- He was not dressed typically for a "tourist," or at least his clothing did not seem to be of UK origin and may well have been purchased in Portugal.

Description of Child:

- The child appeared to be a Caucasian girl about the ages of 3-4.
- She was seen to lie motionless/limp in the man's arms consistent with her sleeping or possibly drugged.
- She did not seem to be wrapped up well for the time of night wearing only pyjamas; the trousers were lightly coloured with a floral element, possibly with turn-ups. The top was not well seen though there was thought to be
another colour involved possibly pink.
- She was not wearing shoes.

JT checked only 5D entering via the deadlocked door on the car park side of the apartment. Both children inside were asleep. She did not check 5A or 5B.

2120: JT then returns to the restaurant, by which time GM had also returned. The entire party then begins eating their starters which have arrived.
2125: After starters, MO and RJO go back to the apartments via the car park entrance to check all flats. They go first to 5D where RJO's daughter Evie is heard crying. RJO enters flat, whilst MO checks inside 5B, and then returns to 5D.
2130: RJO remains in 5D as daughter has vomited. MO goes to check on 5A via the patio gate entrance. The outside gate is probably shut, but the child gate on the stairs up to the patio is possibly open. The patio door is closed but unlocked.
MO enters flat, hears a sound in the children's bedroom that is probably one of the twins rolling over in their cot. He does not enter the bedroom but can see through a now quite open door (greater than 45 degrees) into the room.
He sees the two twins in their cot, but does not check Madeleine formally as no sounds and twins asleep. He recalls the room did seem lighter than expected, perhaps suggesting the shutter had been raised or the curtains opened?
2135: MO returns to restaurant table, by which time main courses are arriving or being eaten. MO tells JT that Evie unwell.
2140: JT returns to 5D to take over care of Evie from RJO.
2145: RJO returns to table to eat main course leaving JT in 5D.
2155: RMO asked time at table. RJO's main course arrives.
2200: (approx): KM leaves table to check children in 5A. The patio gate is closed and the child gate is also probably closed. She enters through the closed patio entrance, with the curtains closed. She crosses the living area, and there is no noise from the children's bedroom. She is about to leave, when she notices the bedroom door was
open (approximately 60 degrees).
She starts to close it and it slams. Considering the patio doors had caused a draft, she checks these doors but they are closed. KM returns to the bedroom and opens the door to check the children were not disturbed by the noise.
At this point, she notices that Madeleine is missing. She checks the other single bed in the room and also Kate and Gerry's beds. Then she double checks that Madeleine was not in her bedroom again. At this point, she notices the curtains blowing forward with a gust of wind. She runs over, pulls open the curtain and notices the shutter was
completely raised, and the window pushed open to the left as far as possible.
She then completes a check of the bathroom, kitchen and wardrobes.
On failing to find Madeleine, she runs to the entrance of the restaurant, shouting from the path leading to the restaurant area raising the alarm that Madeleine was missing.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
Verdi
Verdi
ex moderator
ex moderator

Posts : 34677
Activity : 41927
Likes received : 5932
Join date : 2015-02-02
Location : Flossery

crusader likes this post

Back to top Go down

Documented Evidence - Page 14 Empty Re: Documented Evidence

Post by Verdi 09.09.21 14:27

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

05-06-Apensos V, Vol 6, Page 1357

Table of Contents : APENSOS V, Volume 6, Supposed Sightings and Locations (FILE 06)....(PDF Page 166 )....Page 1357?"Copy of Pages 1349 and 1353"

Page 1357 (Page 1 of 1 )

SOCA
SERIOUS ORGANISED CRIME AGENCY

INTERPOL - United Kingdom National Central Bureau (U.K.N.C.B.)

Interpol London
P.O. Box 8000
London. SE11 5EN
Tel : +44(0)207 238 8115
Fax : +44(0)207 238 8112
Email - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

INTERNATIONAL ENQUIRY FORM
This form must be submitted by your International Liaison Officer
ENQUIRER'S DETAILS
Name & Rank : Dc John Hughes
Agency : LEICESTERSHIRE POLICE
Contact Details : (Tel & Email) : 0116 2312169 [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Interpol Ref : (Where applicable) : 4H-2395710-07 - ACTION NR : A1356
Priority : Urgent/Normal : Urgent
Reason for Urgency : Risk to life-Missing person.
Operation Name : (If Applicable) : OPERATION TASK
Crime or Enquiry Type : Missing person - Madeleine McCann
Destination Countries : Spain and Germany
Form C Completed : Form C Attached :
SUBJECTS - Persons / Vehicles / Companies etc. :

A caller has reported a possible sighting of Madeleine McCann, 11am, 28th May 2007. Location given as a restaurant called 'TUNNELS', in an old castle at an area called Cap Y Corp, Alcossebra, Spain.
She was seen to leave with a man in a Volkswagen van, registered number 'xxxxxxx'.

REQUEST.

We request the Spanish Police check the location for any CCTV or witnesses.
We request the German vehicle keeper details.
Can the vehicle be circulated for a stop and search to be carried out if seen (SIRENE circulation please.)

DOCUMENTS ATTACHED / TO FOLLOW.

CRIMINALITY & ROLE OF THE ABOVE SUBJECTS.
This section MUST be graded as per the National 5x5x5 Intelligence system. The request will be rejected otherwise.

REPORT
------------

Table of Contents : APENSOS V, Volume 6, Supposed Sightings and Locations (FILE 06)....(PDF Page 166 )....Page 1358?"Copy of Email from DC Hughes, (as per Pages 1350 and 1354)"


Page 1358 (Page 1 of 1 )

Hughes John (DC)
______________
From : Hughes John (DC)
Sent : 4th June 2007 10.29
To : 'london@soca.x.gsi.gov.uk '
Subject : Leics enquiry form A1356
Attachments : Leics enquiry form A1356.doc

Can we ask for Spanish local enquiries and German vehicle keeper details for this enquiry please.
Thanks,

Dc John Hughes
------------

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
Verdi
Verdi
ex moderator
ex moderator

Posts : 34677
Activity : 41927
Likes received : 5932
Join date : 2015-02-02
Location : Flossery

crusader and Silentscope like this post

Back to top Go down

Documented Evidence - Page 14 Empty Re: Documented Evidence

Post by Silentscope 09.09.21 15:36

This VW Van BMS 1049 was actually photographed by the reporting witness.
It would be nice to see the pictures.


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


Table of Contents : APENSOS V, Volume 6, Supposed Sightings and Locations (FILE 06)....(PDF Pages 156-157 )....Pages 1347 to 1348?"Statement re sighting in Alcocebre, Spain" 

Page 1347 (Page 1 of 2 )

Priority 2

Incident Message : M1545 : Security Level : 4
Assessor/Receiver's Summary :
Date : 1st June 2007 : Time : 1300 : Priority : M
Type : Phone In
Code : MADE : Description : Madeleine Beth McCANN to include possible sightings


(Note : Here, is a handwritten entry of 10 lines, in the Portuguese Language, dated 4th June 2007, which refers to a reported sighting in ALCOCEBRE, Spain, on 28th May 2007. This entry has obscured most of this report)

The report then continues thus :

....................................................................go on in a volkswagen
van. I took a couple of photographs and the registration of the vehicle which is 'xxxxxxx' German registration.

How long was the child under observation ?

About 15 minutes.

At what distance and in what lighting ?

Normal daylight sunshine.

Was the observation impeded ?

Girl walked straight past me and observation was unobstructed.

(Note : On the righthand margin are 4 entries, A 1353, A1356, A1561 and A1365, which are Case Action Allocation reference numbers)


Page 1348 (Page 2 of 2 )

Has the witness seen the adult or child before and in what circumstances ?

No.

What is the time gap between the sighting and the contact with us ?

4 days.

Are you aware of any CCTV cameras in the area of the sighting or do you have any relevant photographic evidence in relation to it ?

Possibly, not sure.

Any other information the witness has that makes them now believe the child was or was not Madeleine ?

None.

Does the call-taker have any comments in relation to the person passing the information ?

No.


Person receiving/sending : Receiving:
Title/Rank/Id Number : DC 802
Forename(s) : Tony
Surname : WALDREN


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Silentscope
Silentscope
Investigator

Posts : 2939
Activity : 3051
Likes received : 118
Join date : 2020-06-30

Back to top Go down

Documented Evidence - Page 14 Empty Re: Documented Evidence

Post by Verdi 01.10.21 14:25

05-CARTAS ROGATORIAS (FILE 5) pages 1-2

1 to 2-Witness statement of Clarence Eden Mitchell 2008.04.28

Leicestershire Police Force
Witness Statement

Statement by Clarence Eden Mitchell

This statement consists of two pages, signed by me, is truthful and in accordance with my understanding.

Date 28th April 2008

I am the person referred to above, resident at the address previously provided to the police. Today, officers from the Leicestershire police force questioned me about some of the aspects related to the Madeleine McCann inquiry. I was informed that these questions were raised and officially requested by the Portuguese authorities. I am aware that my statement will be subject to the Portuguese Penal Code, as well as to Church law.
These are the replies that I can make to the following questions. In relation to how I met Gerry and Kate McCann and what my relationship with them is:

I met Gerry at the end of May 2007 when he returned to the UK after his daughter's disappearance. It was a circumstantial meeting at Leicestershire Police station. At the time I was working as part of the Consular Assistance Group, representing the foreigners department.

I as asked to return to Portugal with Mr McCann, where I met his wife. Later I became the McCann family's representative and I developed a good personal and professional relationship with them.

As regards my travel to Portugal; I travelled on the 22nd May 2007 and remained in Portugal until the middle of June. Since then, there was no need to return.

As regards my accommodation in Portugal, I stayed in a Mark Warner apartment in the Ocean Club, near to the apartment occupied by the McCann family. I did not notice anything strange in the apartment.

With regard to the moments that I spent with Kate and Gerry; I was with them daily for various hours, whilst I was in Portugal.
After my return to the UK I continued to be in daily contact with them and we would meet two or three times a week.

With regard to Kate and Gerry's behaviour; Their behaviour has been entirely of constant anguish, typical of parents who have lost their daughter in tragic circumstances. Everything that they said or did leads me to believe that they are completely innocent of involvement in the disappearance of Madeleine.

With regard to the various questions about the Renault Scenic: I often saw the car but I do not remember whether I was only inside the Renault Scenic once. I travelled as a front seat passenger on the night that we went to the charity concert in Lagos. Gerald McCann was the driver. The vehicle was packed with other family members.
I did not notice anything strange about the vehicle nor any unpleasant or intense smell.

I do not think that Kate or Gerry could have hidden Madeleine or transported her body anywhere in the car. In my opinion this is a ridiculous suggestion, given that they as well as the car were the object of intense observation by the media, day and night, during the whole time that I was with them. The car was always parked in front of a multitude from television channels and photographers. The car was always followed by photographers during the whole time.

I cannot think of any more information or explanations that could be relevant or that could help the investigation in any way.

This statement was made by me and is truthful in accordance with my understanding.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
Verdi
Verdi
ex moderator
ex moderator

Posts : 34677
Activity : 41927
Likes received : 5932
Join date : 2015-02-02
Location : Flossery

crusader likes this post

Back to top Go down

Documented Evidence - Page 14 Empty Re: Documented Evidence

Post by lisbon 21.10.21 19:05

I'm sorry if my question has been covered elsewhere else on this site, but the site is huge and Byzantine and I can't find any answer to it.

Does anyone know if the dogs could pick up cadaver scent if there had never been a body in the car? For example, if the car had been used to dispose of clothing or a blanket or sheet that had been wrapped around Madeleine's dead body, could there be enough transference of the odour for the cadaver dog to signal? Or is it necessary for Madeleine herself to be in the vehicle?
lisbon
lisbon

Posts : 10
Activity : 14
Likes received : 4
Join date : 2021-07-16

Back to top Go down

Documented Evidence - Page 14 Empty Re: Documented Evidence

Post by crusader 21.10.21 20:33

It is not necessary for Madeleine to have been in the McCann's hire car for the cadaver dog ( Eddie ) to signal.

Martin Grimes  suggested it was cadaver scent contamination that the dog was alerting to.

The blood dog ( Keela ) was put into the car and signalled the map pocket at the drivers side where the car key was found. She also signalled the drivers side in the boot.

PJ files 2186 to 2188.
crusader
crusader
Forum support

Posts : 6515
Activity : 6866
Likes received : 345
Join date : 2019-03-12

Back to top Go down

Documented Evidence - Page 14 Empty Re: Documented Evidence

Post by Verdi 22.10.21 1:52

lisbon wrote:I'm sorry if my question has been covered elsewhere else on this site, but the site is huge and Byzantine and I can't find any answer to it.

Does anyone know if the dogs could pick up cadaver scent if there had never been a body in the car? For example, if the car had been used to dispose of clothing or a blanket or sheet that had been wrapped around Madeleine's dead body, could there be enough transference of the odour for the cadaver dog to signal? Or is it necessary for Madeleine herself to be in the vehicle?

As a self confessed 'lurker' and websleuths devotee, I'm astonished to hear you have overlooked most certainly one of the finer points of this case .... Eddie and Keela's forensic evidence!

It's called transference or transfer evidence - elementary my dear Watson!

Or you could phone a friend  onphone  the forum appears to attracting quite a few websleutharian migrants.

I take that as a backhanded compliment, albeit nefarious by intent winkwink  !

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
Verdi
Verdi
ex moderator
ex moderator

Posts : 34677
Activity : 41927
Likes received : 5932
Join date : 2015-02-02
Location : Flossery

Back to top Go down

Documented Evidence - Page 14 Empty Re: Documented Evidence

Post by lisbon 22.10.21 7:41

@ Verdi

I feel from your last two posts to me that you suspect that I am some kind of shill who has joined in order to mislead the forum. In my first post here, I made it clear that I was very sceptical about what seems the predominant theory on here - the idea that MM died on Sunday or Monday of the week. I also made it clear that I am very sceptical about the innocence of the McCanns. I assure you that I am not a shill, and I am happy not to post again if you would prefer that as one of the site moderators.

I would also like to say I am not a Websleuths 'devotee'. I can't prove it, of course, but I have never posted there and largely lost interest in it because in my opinion the MM section has been taken over by a group of people who are pushing the CB scenario in order to protect the McCanns, and, although many of the earlier posts are interesting and informative, the contemporary posts are not.

Re. the dogs. Of course I am familiar with their search and with the concept of transference. Almost everything I have read, though, assumed that the evidence of the dogs showed that MM's body was in the car, and I wanted confirmation, if possible, that mere transference to clothing or material would be strong enough to elicit a signal after three weeks (especially if it had been thoroughly washed before the hire car was used to take it somewhere far away - perhaps en route to Huelva).  

I asked this for this reason: On one level, the signalling of the dogs caused enormous problems for the McCanns, but in one sense it actually helped them, because it means people who broadly follow Amaral's theory now needed to explain how the McCanns could keep a dead body from decomposing (freezers etc). For me, this is the core problem in Amaral's theory. But if it is certain that clothing or material would be enough for the dog to signal, that problem goes away, since there is no need to believe that MM's body was ever in the hire car and a walk down to the beach carrying a tennis bag would be enough to remove the body, either on 3 May or before.

As I said, if you wish me to leave the group, I will.
lisbon
lisbon

Posts : 10
Activity : 14
Likes received : 4
Join date : 2021-07-16

Back to top Go down

Documented Evidence - Page 14 Empty Re: Documented Evidence

Post by Jill Havern 22.10.21 9:06

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

If the dogs alerted to scent only, due to transference, why would Amaral say there was bodily fluid in the car?

____________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
A wise man once said: "Be careful who you let on your ship,
because some people will sink the whole ship just because they can't be The Captain."
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]MAGA    [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]MBGA
Jill Havern
Jill Havern
The Captain (& Chief Faffer) Oh yeah, and Forum Owner
The Captain (& Chief Faffer) Oh yeah, and Forum Owner

Posts : 30861
Activity : 43671
Likes received : 7756
Join date : 2009-11-25
Location : Parallel universe

https://thecompletemysteryofmadeleinemccann.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Documented Evidence - Page 14 Empty Re: Documented Evidence

Post by crusader 22.10.21 9:11

Eddie alerted to cadaver scent, Keela found actual evidence of blood.
crusader
crusader
Forum support

Posts : 6515
Activity : 6866
Likes received : 345
Join date : 2019-03-12

Back to top Go down

Documented Evidence - Page 14 Empty Re: Documented Evidence

Post by Silentscope 22.10.21 10:59

Snipped from an earlier post by Jill on another thread:


As for Snr. Amaral referring to the sample from the boot as blood, consider this:

Keela (blood only dog), alerted to the boot; specifically the area marked 10.
It was also visually thought to be blood.
DNA confirmed by John Lowe of FSS.
DNA can only come from tissues such as blood, sweat, skin, semen, saliva etc.
As all other fluids from the body would have glowed under inspection, anything other than blood can be ruled out.
The assumption that the sample was in fact blood, is a perfectly reasonable one to make.

Oh one more thing... 

Stuart Prior of Leicestershire police force, who was with Goncalo Amaral, at the time they were discussing the DNA results, stated that in England, the results would have been enough to arrest the McCanns.


Silentscope- maybe the thawing process allowed fluids to saturate the boot carpet / flooring, which then dripped onto the wheel arch underneath? 


Members might find this case interesting for comparison Link:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Silentscope
Silentscope
Investigator

Posts : 2939
Activity : 3051
Likes received : 118
Join date : 2020-06-30

Cammerigal and crusader like this post

Back to top Go down

Documented Evidence - Page 14 Empty Re: Documented Evidence

Post by lisbon 22.10.21 12:17

Jill Havern wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

If the dogs alerted to scent only, due to transference, why would Amaral say there was bodily fluid in the car?


So, if I understand you correctly, this would mean that MM's body must have been in the car, and not just bloodied material or clothes?
lisbon
lisbon

Posts : 10
Activity : 14
Likes received : 4
Join date : 2021-07-16

Back to top Go down

Documented Evidence - Page 14 Empty Re: Documented Evidence

Post by Guest 22.10.21 13:42

your formulation is to easy, bodily fluids are not longer bound to a body perse, they could be anywhere except no longer in a body. 

they had to get there, if we trust the investigation on their informed opinion, have been fluid on a certain time, and for that they have to become in separation of said body. 

because there could be always the possibility, that bodily fluids become separate of a body, you can not say, that body and the relict bodily fluids have been in the same place. 

the informed opinion states a kind of dried fluids, possibly from a body. so you get the following possibilities, it could be directly transferred from said body, but it could also be transferred from something that could hold bodily fluids in a liquid phase, that could leaked out into the  back of that car. 

cloth would have to be very drenched in fluids before it start leaking. something that could hold fluids far better like a plastic bag, or other thing that could act as a container, and that was able to let a fluid leak out is also possible. 

there is no good rapport on said findings in the files. so we could only interpret from what we are told and known or expected circumstances.  

it was never said that there was a wet spot, so logically, also from the local climate at that time it was a in situ dried substance. and the dogs did react to that place. a experienced investigator would then have his experienced eye and mind loose on those findings, made samples for further research, and most times would also make pictures and a sketch with the exact location.  after that most investigators would use then if they are available some forensic tools, and also use their hands and nose to such a finding. 

after that it is to the forensics labs to tell what is the residue, and is there any human dna present. if the residue is ever typed to an known substance, we do not know, it is never published. we do know that the samples of that residue did contain human dna. declared inconclusive because it would have come from more than one person. 

you can not do both testing on the same sample, for dna you have to break down the sample, to get the dna out of any cell material that contains dna. so that sample will be destroyed in the test itself. 
today it could maybe possible to use something as nirs testing, that could be tried before a sample goes in for dna. but these techniques were in its very early infancies in 2007. 

one of the things that did go wrong, was that the british forensic services, did communicated after the testing done for dna, that other testing in that lab was not possible. and if i read between the lines of the conversation by letters in the files, the portuguese investigation was expecting the could do also test for origin of the samples. like this one is from blood, this one is from saliva, etc. 

there is very little in the files about what was in the back of that car. all there is, is from amaral's books, and some snippets from the press. 
those parts of the investigation, was also done together with british investigators. 

we simply lack to much information to tell, if a body itself was there? the body and its package material, or just package material, or even a accidently happen transfer. 

investigators do not relay on anything, other than facts, facts can not change, but facts need circumstances, and all the rest is circumstantial, but together it will tell a story in the end. 

dna is a fact in itself, but it are the circumstances that will guide dna into evidence.
Anonymous
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Documented Evidence - Page 14 Empty Re: Documented Evidence

Post by Verdi 22.10.21 14:54

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I feel from your last two posts to me that you suspect that I am some kind of shill ....

Rest assured, the word never entered my mind.

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
Verdi
Verdi
ex moderator
ex moderator

Posts : 34677
Activity : 41927
Likes received : 5932
Join date : 2015-02-02
Location : Flossery

Back to top Go down

Documented Evidence - Page 14 Empty Forenscic evidence

Post by Verdi 22.10.21 14:57

As it's attracting interest, later today I will move this discussion to the Documented Evidence thread.

thumbup

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
Verdi
Verdi
ex moderator
ex moderator

Posts : 34677
Activity : 41927
Likes received : 5932
Join date : 2015-02-02
Location : Flossery

Back to top Go down

Documented Evidence - Page 14 Empty Re: Documented Evidence

Post by Verdi 22.10.21 17:45

08-Processo Volume 8 pages 2186 to 2188

Dog inspection report of cars searched in subterranean
garage

Canine Inspection Report

Date 6 and 7 August 2007

Place Underground parking area of 1st of May Square, Portimao.

Participants: three PJ officers; two UK police experts; Eddy and Keela, the English Springer
[Spaniels]

THE ENTIRE WORK WAS RECORDED IN IMAGE AND SOUND [on video]

On 6 August 2007, at 15h17, a canine inspection was performed in the following motor cars, this
being done on level -4 of the above-mentioned underground car park:

[list of cars: Opel Corsa; Fiat Punto; Peugeot 205; Renault Scenic; Skodia Fabia; VW Transporter;
Nissan Patrol; VW Passat; Audi A4; Renault Kangoo.]

Thus, at the hour indicated the work began, with the dog Eddy, that detects cadaver odour,
examining the whole level of the underground car park where the vehicles were parked, it having
been verified the following result:

15h27 - the dog 'marked' car number 4 - Renault Scenic - rental vehicle currently used by Gerry
and Kate McCann.

Thus, the Renault Scenic vehicle was moved to parking level -3 and subjected to an expert
examination by officers from the Police Science Laboratory and another canine inspection that
began at 03h49 on 7 August 2007 by the dog Keela, that detects traces of human blood, it having
been verified the following result:

03h53 - the dog 'marked' an area of the lower right-hand side of the interior part of the baggage
compartment of the car;

04h11 - the dog 'marked' the 'tidy' compartment [map/glove pocket] on the side of the driver's door,
which was found to contain the car key, the plastic electronic card type, with a key-ring of the
Budget rental company.

In order to confirm that the dog had effectively 'marked' the car key, that was found in the
map/glove pocket on the side of the driver's door, at 04h13, that key was retrieved from the car
and concealed in a place far distant from the vehicle on parking level -3 of the underground car
park.

At 04h14, it was verified that the dog 'marked' the area of a sandbox [bucket of sand] of the Fire
System where the car key had been concealed beneath the sand.

At 04h50, a new inspection was performed by Eddy on the parking level -4 where the above car
key was concealed in an area far distant from the vehicle.

At 04h51, it was verified that the dog 'marked' the area of a sandbox [bucket of sand] of the Fire
System where the car key had been concealed beneath the sand.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
Verdi
Verdi
ex moderator
ex moderator

Posts : 34677
Activity : 41927
Likes received : 5932
Join date : 2015-02-02
Location : Flossery

Cammerigal likes this post

Back to top Go down

Documented Evidence - Page 14 Empty Re: Documented Evidence

Post by Verdi 22.10.21 17:53

Transfer Evidence

Transfer evidence is defined as any evidential substance or particle such as blood , fluids , hairs, fibers , paint, and skin that is exchanged between an assailant and the victim or the scene of the crime. Such evidence can transfer either from the criminal to the victim or from the victim to the criminal. It can also be transferred into or out of the crime scene. This transfer often occurs when forcible contact occurs between persons, vehicles, or objects. For example, when glass fragments from one automobile are found on another vehicle, an exchange of transfer evidence has occurred. Different forms of transfer evidence can be small foreign materials such as food particles carried by the perpetrator to the crime scene and left behind, or identifying materials such as the victim's hairs or skin particles carried away from the scene on clothing. Other small particles of transfer evidence may lodge in the hair or under fingernails, or in some other way attach themselves to persons key to the criminal investigation.

An important forensic principle that involves transfer evidence is the Locard's exchange principle . Proposed in 1910 by Dr. Edmond Locard , the principle states that whenever there is contact between two objects (whether either are a living thing or not), there is a transfer of material between them. It is therefore the responsibility of forensic experts to find that transfer evidence, however difficult it may be to locate.

Transfer evidence often plays a critical role in hit-and-run accidents involving a pedestrian hit by a driver. When investigators locate the wrongdoer and his vehicle, it is common to find blood, pieces of clothing, and skin from the victim on the vehicle and pieces of paint or broken glass on the victim that has been transferred from the driver's vehicle.

The principal investigative value of transfer evidence is its ability to be traced. When it is found on a suspect it connects the suspect with the scene of the alleged crime or with the alleged victim. A suspect, who carries away fragments, small materials, or tissues that are clearly identifiable with the victim, can be definitely associated with a particular crime when such transfer evidence is found. Victims who scratch an assailant often lodge minute skin cells, clothing fibers, and other materials from the assailant's body and clothing under their fingernails. These materials can be retrieved by forensic investigators and used as evidence against the alleged criminal.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
Verdi
Verdi
ex moderator
ex moderator

Posts : 34677
Activity : 41927
Likes received : 5932
Join date : 2015-02-02
Location : Flossery

Cammerigal likes this post

Back to top Go down

Documented Evidence - Page 14 Empty Re: Documented Evidence

Post by Verdi 22.10.21 18:03

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
Verdi
Verdi
ex moderator
ex moderator

Posts : 34677
Activity : 41927
Likes received : 5932
Join date : 2015-02-02
Location : Flossery

Back to top Go down

Documented Evidence - Page 14 Empty Who rented 5A after the McCann's

Post by Bird131 01.11.21 23:22

After Madeleine was reported missing, Apartment 5A stood empty for a month. In early June 2007, a family rented the apartment for a week. Then, a second family rented Apartment 5A for a fortnight (probably until about the end of June 2007). Thereafter, the apartment become a permanent crime scene until 2008. Does anyone know the names and particulars of these two family's? Lastly, were they from the UK? This information may be of huge importance. Thanks.

________________________________________________________________________

Post moved.

This might help you Bird131

- At the Ocean Club, apartment 5A had been booked for the nights of 28 April through 4 May (vacating on 5th); the family stayed in apartment 4G from 4 May through 2 July (vacating on 3rd)
- Apartment 5A was subsequently let between 12 and 19 June (to friends of the owner); 28 June to 12 July (to three people with Irish names); 12 to 19 July (to an English couple) and 19 to 26 July (to a family with Southern Asian names).

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Verdi.

hat
Bird131
Bird131
Researcher

Posts : 108
Activity : 148
Likes received : 9
Join date : 2020-07-09
Location : South Africa

Bird131 likes this post

Back to top Go down

Documented Evidence - Page 14 Empty Re: Documented Evidence

Post by Verdi 16.11.21 12:59

Scientific Police Laboratory Report

Forensic Report No. 200707116-CR/L



Requesting Party: Portimao DIC of the Policia Judiciaria

NUIPC: 201/070 GALGS

Request number: 189/2007

Examination initiated on 06 May 2007


The report on the collection of blood vestiges carried out on 06 May 2007, from the wall, next to the main entrance of Quinta dos Figos, situated on Rua 1 de Maio, in Praia da Luz, in Lagos, is requested.

Observations and Analyses Made

A team from the Crime Scene section of the Scientific Police Laboratory, composed of the undersigned officers, after a request made by the Portimao DIC of the Policia Judiciaria, went to Rua 1 de Maio, in Praia da Luz, in Lagos, where we were requested to proceed to collect various stains, supposedly haematic that were on the wall and the ground in that street. This collection was within the area of investigation into the disappearance of an English girl.

Here is a map of the scene.

Photo 1: Map of the scene showing the entrance to Quinta dos Figos encircled in red.


1811.jpg

Upon the team's arrival at the scene it was reported to us by the inspectors present that the supposed blood stains were found on a wall and on the ground close to the wall, next to main entrance of Quinta dos Figos

Photo 2 : Panoramic view of the site where the supposed blood stains were found.

Photos 3 , 4 and 5: Entrance to the Quinta dos Figos where eventual biological vestiges were found and detail of the plaque with the name of the property and of the plaque with the street name.

1812.jpg


Photo 6: Shot of the area of the Quinta dos Figos wall where the supposed blood stains were found.

From the observation made of the wall and its proximities various stains were detected with a brownish red colour which suggested that they could be of haematic origin. These were submitted to tests to detect peroxide existing in the blood using the Kastle-Mayer test, in both cases the reactions were positive.

The stain referred to as vestige no. 3 was further submitted for testing to determine whether the blood was of animal origin, but reacted positively as being human blood.

The blood stains mentioned previously were separated by zones and referenced as vestige no. 1 those being the stains found on the gravel ground, vestiges no. 2 being the blood stains that were found on top of the wall and vestige no. 3 as being the stains that were found on the ground in the area where there cobblestones.


1813.jpg


Photo 7: Shot of vestiges 1, 2 and 3.

Photos 8 and 9: Detail of vestige 1

1814.jpg


Photos 10 and 11: Detail of vestige 2.

Photos 12 and 13: Detail of vestige 3

Photo 14: Indicator test of the presence of human blood

1815.jpg


The collection of the vestiges indicated as vestiges nos. 1, 2 and 3 was begun using slightly moistened swabs, in accordance with the procedures of the Scientific Police Laboratory's Biology Area.

Conclusion:

Upon the request of the Portimao DIC present at the site, collection was made of 3 swabs containing blood vestiges, referred to in this report as vestiges nos. 1,2 and 3, which were delivered to the Biology Area, by means of delivery guide no. 189/2007 - CR/L, copy of which is annexed, in order to be preserved for further/eventual forensic examinations.

The test for the determination of animal species carried out on vestige 3 was placed in an evidence bag series A no. 022917 and delivered to the Portimao DIC.

Lisbon, 31st May 2007.

Signed.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
Verdi
Verdi
ex moderator
ex moderator

Posts : 34677
Activity : 41927
Likes received : 5932
Join date : 2015-02-02
Location : Flossery

Back to top Go down

Documented Evidence - Page 14 Empty Re: Documented Evidence

Post by Verdi 16.11.21 13:06

Delivery Guide No. 189/2007 - CR/L

Date of Delivery: 24 May 2007

Destination: Scientific Police Laboratory, Biology Area

Forensic Examination no.: 200707116-CR/L

NUIPC: 201/07.o GALGS

Date and Time of Collection: Wall of the Quinta dos Figos, Rua 1 de Maio, Praia da Luz

Scope of the test: Disappearance of Girl.

Requested by: Chief Inspector Tavares de Almeida, Portimão DIC.

Vestiges Delivered:

No. Description

1 Cotton swab containing blood vestiges collected from the ground next to the wall.
2 Cotton swab containing blood vestiges collected from the top of the wall.
3 Cotton swab containing blood vestiges collected from the ground next to the wall.

Observations: Nothing to be registered.

Lisbon, 25th May 2007

Delivery and receipt signed.
....................

Policia Judiciara

NUIPC-201 070 GALGS
4th Brigade
Inspector Joao Carlos

Terms Of Withdrawal

I consign to the case files that I proceeded to the withdrawal of vestige no. 3 (evidence bag no. 022917) to which the previous report refers, with the aim of depositing it later.

Conclusion

Portimao
12th June 2007

Signed
Inspector Joao Carlos
....................

Fax

Date: 10th August 2007

To: The Scientific Police Laboratory, "Crime Scene"

From: Portimao DIC

NUIPC 201/07 GALGS

This fax is to confirm the requests made to the team of this Crime Scene laboratory for the carrying out of inspections (already done) of the places and objects indicated on these days:

1. 01 August 2007

Place: Apartment 5 A Garden (front) apartment space
OC resort

Diligence: detection of biological vestiges and others.

2. 04 August 2007.

Place: Apartment 5 A
Ocean Club resort

Diligence: detection of biological vestiges and others.

3. 06 August 2007

Place: Portimao car park - 1st May square
Object: vehicle. Numberplate 59-DA-27
Make/model: Renault Scenic

With compliments

Chief Inspector

Tavares de Almeida
....................

Fax

Urgent

Ref: 640

Date: 13 August 2007

To: Scientific Police Laboratory. Crime Scene.

Addendum to Fax 638, 10th August

In addendum to our fax mentioned above we inform you of the means of treatment to be given to the vestiges/articles collected.

01 August 2007

Conditioned and sent to British laboratory (accompanied by the SPL).
1. Mosaics from the floor of the living room of apartment 5 A, OC.
2. Bushes from the garden of apartment 5 A, OC.

Conditioned and to preserved at SPL:
3. Fibres.
4. Hairs.

04 August 2007

Conditioned and sent to British laboratory (accompanied by the SPL).
5. Vestiges, eventually biological.

06 August 2007

Conditioned and sent to British laboratory (accompanied by the SPL).
6. Vestiges, eventually biological.
7. Vestiges/fibres.

With compliments

Chief Inspector

Tavares de Almeida


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
Verdi
Verdi
ex moderator
ex moderator

Posts : 34677
Activity : 41927
Likes received : 5932
Join date : 2015-02-02
Location : Flossery

Back to top Go down

Documented Evidence - Page 14 Empty Re: Documented Evidence

Post by Verdi 16.11.21 13:09

Delivery Guide No. 196/2007 CR/L
Delivery Guide of Vestiges Collected at the Crime Scene

Date of Delivery: 29th May 2007
Destination: Biology Area of the Scientific Police Laboratory

Forensic Examination no.: 200707356-CR/L
NUIPC: 201/07.0 GALGS

Date and Time of Collection: 05.22.00 May 07
Place of Collection: Aparthotel Sol e Mar, 2nd floor, Apartment C, Burgau

Scope: Disappearance of Girl
Requested by: Chief Inspector Tavares de Almeida, Portimao DIC.

Vestiges Delivered:
No. Description
1A Cotton swab containing haematic vestiges collected from the kitchen cupboard door.
IB Various hairs collected from the kitchen floor.
2 Various hairs collected from the entrance corridor
3 Various hairs collected from the bedroom floor
4 Various hairs collected from the bed in the bedroom.
5 Various hairs collected from the bathroom.
6 Various hairs collected from the living room floor.
7 Various hairs collected from a sofa in the living room.
8 Various hairs collected from a sofa in the living room.

Lisbon 29th May 2007
Signed: delivery and receipt.
....................

Letter to the National Forensics Institute (INML) from Goncalo Amaral


17th August 2007

The present inquiry is in relation to the investigation of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann on 3rd May from P da L.

The English authorities in possession of elements collected from the family home in Leicestershire, which are being examined in an unidentified laboratory, traced the girl's DNA profile, in annex to this document.

As it is necessary to the investigation we request the following:

1. Whether in the tests done by the INML Madeleine's profile was established?

2. In the case of a positive answer to point 1, that it should be determined whether the girl is the daughter of the parents identified ? Gerald Patrick McCann and Kate Healy.

3. Information about whether the profile obtained by the INML corresponds to the profile traced in the English laboratory, on the request of the British authorities.

4. If there are differences between the English and Portuguese profiles that a report should be drawn up for this inquiry.

5. In the follow-up of point 4, we request to be informed whether in the English profile the girl is the daughter of the McCann couple.

6. Other information that might be of use to the investigation.

Signed G. Amaral

09-Processos Vol IX Page 2419

Vol IX Page 2419

Reply from the Forensics Institute (INML) to Goncalo Amaral

22-08-2007

Reply to Queries

- We inform you that none of the samples received by this institute were designated as supposedly belonging to the missing girl and we therefore, cannot reply to this query.


- Samples were studied - hair and a piece of cloth - nuclear DNA profiles only being obtained from 4 samples, which upon comparison with the DNA profiles of Kate and Gerry, could not belong to the girl.

- The samples were then studied using mitochondrial DNA analysis, the same was done for the other samples, giving the results in accordance with our report of 9th July No. 2007/000226 LX-BC.

- As requested in point 5, it was determined that the profile obtained by the British lab could belong to a son/daughter of the McCanns.

- The comparison of the profiles obtained in autossomic STR from Kate and Gerry McCann with the profile obtained was carried out.
Signed

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
Verdi
Verdi
ex moderator
ex moderator

Posts : 34677
Activity : 41927
Likes received : 5932
Join date : 2015-02-02
Location : Flossery

Back to top Go down

Page 13 of 16 Previous  1 ... 8 ... 12, 13, 14, 15, 16  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum