Re: Madeleine McCann: Government 'gives police £154,000' to extend search for missing toddler

by MayMuse 01.10.17 0:41

Interesting amount of new cash injection...

Reading too much into it.... 154.....

1 theory or missing or dead

5. Apartment

4 participants/ witness/ suspects ...or even the month of April...fourth month?

Must get out more big grin

by Guest 01.10.17 7:54

MR: It’s a brand new investigation, you are going in with an open mind. You are not ignoring the evidence in front of you. That would be a bizarre conclusion. You would look at that material, what does it prove, what it doesn’t. What hypothesis does it open what does it close down and you work your way through the case.

Q: Just to be clear you did not interview the McCanns as potential suspects?

MR: No.

Not an open mind then.

Ridicuous and obvious that some protection is going on.

by MayMuse 01.10.17 8:06

Is it normal practice to not interview the last known people to have been with Madeleine ? I would think not....

Not interviewed as suspects (odd that) however were the parents ever interviewed at all by SY?

Is that a "no" ?

If so then that's going against the grain of policing and needs answering as to why.

If yes like the tapas7 recorded interviews...where are the parents recorded interviews?

Answers on a postcard".........

by Paddington2007 01.10.17 11:58

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A £12m investigation of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann has been granted an extra £154,000 because detectives are hunting a “person of significance”.
A source close to Operation Grange — Scotland Yard’s six-year search for Madeleine — has said finding the person is one of the “critical lines of inquiry” that police hope may help to solve the mystery. Madeleine, who was then three, disappeared in May 2007 while on holiday with her family in Portugal.
Last week the Home Office announced the funding that will keep four detectives on the investigation until the end of March next year. The source said: “It is as much to rule the person out of the inquiry as anything else.”

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Madeleine McCann, then three, vanished in May 2007 while on holiday with her family in Portugal[size=12]GETTY IMAGES[/size]
The Portuguese investigation of Madeleine’s disappearance was criticised by the British authorities as being not fit for purpose. Scotland Yard began an investigative review into the disappearance in 2011.
However, The Sunday Times understands that Met detectives have been relying on Portuguese transcripts of key interviews with British witnesses, rather than conducting their own.

Operation Grange has conducted no formal witness interviews with Gerry or Kate McCann or the seven friends they dined with on the night Madeleine disappeared.
Colin Sutton, a former Met detective chief inspector, said: “I would conduct fresh interviews with all the key British witnesses. We’re talking about interviews given by the McCanns and friends through an interpreter, written down in Portuguese and then translated back into English so officers from Grange can read them. The room for error would be enormous.”
The Met said the Operation Grange team would not comment while the investigation was ongoing.
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by Guest 01.10.17 12:04

Colin Sutton, a former Met detective chief inspector, said: “I would conduct fresh interviews with all the key British witnesses

If OG haven't done this then it is an outrageous waste of tax-payers money.

by Paddington2007 01.10.17 13:13

BlueBag wrote:
Colin Sutton, a former Met detective chief inspector, said: “I would conduct fresh interviews with all the key British witnesses
If OG haven't done this then it is an outrageous waste of tax-payers money.

Sometimes timing is everything! For sake of argument, let us say OG (and the Portuguese police) have a fairly clear idea of what happened, that could still be quite some way from being able to prove it, beyond reasonable doubt, in a court of law - absence of a body, took place abroad over ten years ago, complex forensic evidence. It might be sensible to investigate every possible avenue very thoroughly, prior to questioning anyone that is seriously suspected of involvement. I know it is not a popular view on this forum but I still believe in 'the thin blue line' .......you might get the odd 'bad apple' but I don't honestly believe lots of coppers would conspire to conceal the death of a toddler. Team McCann and their spokespeople feed the media, so of course the press print largely from a pro McCann perspective. OG, keep their 'powder dry' and say little, that is exactly as it should be, unless and until they are in a position to make arrests.

by Guest 01.10.17 13:24

BlueBag wrote:
Colin Sutton, a former Met detective chief inspector, said: “I would conduct fresh interviews with all the key British witnesses
If OG haven't done this then it is an outrageous waste of tax-payers money.

"Primarily what we sought to do from the beginning is try and draw everything back to zero if you like. Try and take everything back to the beginning and re-analyse and reassess everything, accepting nothing...."

DCI Andy Redwood [retired] - October 2013 Madeleine McCann Special BBC Crimewatch production
---------

Second rule of deception - good memory!

by Guest 01.10.17 13:31

Paddington2007 wrote:
BlueBag wrote:
Colin Sutton, a former Met detective chief inspector, said: “I would conduct fresh interviews with all the key British witnesses
If OG haven't done this then it is an outrageous waste of tax-payers money.

Sometimes timing is everything! For sake of argument, let us say OG (and the Portuguese police) have a fairly clear idea of what happened, that could still be quite some way from being able to prove it, beyond reasonable doubt, in a court of law - absence of a body, took place abroad over ten years ago, complex forensic evidence. It might be sensible to investigate every possible avenue very thoroughly, prior to questioning anyone that is seriously suspected of involvement. I know it is not a popular view on this forum but I still believe in 'the thin blue line' .......you might get the odd 'bad apple' but I don't honestly believe lots of coppers would conspire to conceal the death of a toddler. Team McCann and their spokespeople feed the media, so of course the press print largely from a pro McCann perspective. OG, keep their 'powder dry' and say little, that is exactly as it should be, unless and until they are in a position to make arrests.

No... first thing you do is the basics.

You don't spend years beating about the bush wasting millions of pounds when a few simple questions to the right people would suffice.

by willowthewisp 01.10.17 14:14

Hi Paddington2007,take a look at Operation Tiberius,then ask your self of how many"bad apples",it seems to be,that you must be required,to turn many a"Blind eye"as a means to promotion within the ranks,which then escalates to the serious levels of Corruption of Senior personnel,right up the chain of command,rancid from Top to bottom?

The UK Government are just about able to conceal Police malpractice ,but for how much longer will they be able to contain,that they have a majority of the public behind them,with the amount of corruption being uncovered,leading into questioning the very people at the Top of the chain of Command??
You can make as many Police body Camera programmes as you like,showing how much the Police have to deal with on a daily basis or other Police style programmes,they will not counter balance the levels of corruption by Police Officers affecting Criminal elements in society,the actions of these Police Officers exacerbate the situation?
Just take a look on Youtube to see the behaviour or tactics used by the UK Police forces on peaceful protest, or the latest examples of Police assisting bailiffes on Civil Redress issues,then you have ketteling methods,forcing people along pathways,using the"Full Weight" of the Law,openly shoving people,isn't that an assault?

by Paddington2007 01.10.17 14:18

Bluebag, I do see your point of view. However, I suppose it greatly depends on who you are dealing with and on how well prepared and resourced they are.

"A few simple questions to the right people....." Do you really believe that would resolve this case and result in someone making a full and frank confession?

by Paddington2007 01.10.17 14:39

Hi Willowthewisp,

Thank you, I did take a look at Operation Tiberius, I'm certainly no expert on the police, the Met or on police corruption and would not claim to be. I have fairly limited personal experience of the police (the odd speeding ticket and was once the victim of a burglary.) Do you really believe the entire force is "Rancid from top to bottom?"

by willowthewisp 01.10.17 15:25

Paddington2007 wrote:Hi Willowthewisp,

Thank you, I did take a look at Operation Tiberius, I'm certainly no expert on the police, the Met or on police corruption and would not claim to be. I have fairly limited personal experience of the police (the odd speeding ticket and was once the victim of a burglary.) Do you really believe the entire force is "Rancid from top to bottom?"

Hi Paddington2007,I note you chose not to comment on Operation Tiberius,you then ask a question of my quote,"Rancid from Top to Bottom"?
A former Metropolitan Police Service Commander,Lord Stevens had evidence from Operation Othania,destroyed the paper work collated from 1993-2002,during this period,Stephen Lawrence was Murdered and in 1987 Daniel Morgan was found Murdered in his car,the connection to the Two events is that Lord Stevens is on record that a Police Officer named Mr John Ellison had,Never taken part in investigations to both these Murders,it has transpired that Mr Stevens was proven wrong? Mr Stevens is on record of what was disclosed at the MacPhearson Inquiry,where a well known Gangster had met a Police Officer,who had passed a bundle of Brown envelopes between them,under cover Police Officers had seen the transaction take place,The Gangster was eventually jailed for Murder of a Man in a Road rage incident but was acting on behalf of a "Friends" son's involvement in the Murder of Stephen Lawrence,but as you state,you believe they're Not all Bad?
The same person had killed an Under Cover Police Officer,who had found this Officer in his Garden,the man "Fearing for his Life"repeatedly stabbed to death the Police Officer,he was found Not guilty in Court and walked away a Freeman.
This same person was followed by Under Cover Police Officers,with a Newly Bought Smelting pot in the back of the boot of his Rolls Royce,the Police Officers failed to apprehend the person driving the car,but a£26 Million pound Gold heist had taken place at an Airport,where this person was thought to have been involved with?
I suggest you try some light reading of the Unsolved Murder of Daniel Morgan,perhaps that may alter your train of thought?

by Phoebe 01.10.17 15:29

"However, The Sunday Times understands that Met detectives have been relying on Portuguese transcripts of key interviews with British witnesses, rather than conducting their own.

Operation Grange has conducted no formal witness interviews with Gerry or Kate McCann or the seven friends they dined with on the night Madeleine disappeared.

Colin Sutton, a former Met detective chief inspector, said: “I would conduct fresh interviews with all the key British witnesses. We’re talking about interviews given by the McCanns and friends through an interpreter, written down in Portuguese and then translated back into English so officers from Grange can read them. The room for error would be enormous.”

What's the betting that Op. Grange will now conduct new interviews with the McCanns, their Tapas friends and other British witnesses and that these new interviews will uncover things that were "lost in translation" or errors which gave a completely false picture? Cynical as I am, I suspect money is being spent to re-examine the Portuguese transcripts looking for plausible loopholes. Eg. We'll have Gerry having stated that he entered by the front door using his key "save for" that night (May 3rd) with the "save for" having been missed due to his heavy Glaswegian brogue. Wait for it. Hissyfit

by nglfi 01.10.17 16:36

So according to the Times, the renewed funding is as much to rule someone out as in? That being the case this farce is literally endless. How many millions of people do we have to rule out before we accept the prime suspects are responsible?

It's also an absolute joke that they continuously slag off the Portuguese police and then rely on their translations to conduct their 'investigation'.

by willowthewisp 01.10.17 18:12

nglfi wrote:So according to the Times, the renewed funding is as much to rule someone out as in? That being the case this farce is literally endless. How many millions of people do we have to rule out before we accept the prime suspects are responsible?

It's also an absolute joke that they continuously slag off the Portuguese police and then rely on their translations to conduct their 'investigation'.

Hi nglfi,I thought Operation Grange had all of the Portugal statements translated from Portuguese into English at a cost of over £100,000,so why now state in the Times article,that they have been relying on the Portuguese based statements?
I am almost certain Assistant Commander of the Metropolitan Police Service,Mark Rowley had stated this in a previous statement!
As Phoebe has pointed out,The Metropolitan Police Service are now desperately scraping the bottom of the barrel,for an explanation as to what is likely to have happened to Madeleine McCann,reported to disappeared by her parents from Apartment 5a Ocean Club 3 May 2007?
As to what was put on the Street Signs in Portugal,Please stop the McCann Farce,Now?

If the UK Police Force are unwilling to carry out their duties,"Without Fear Nor Favour"then resign from your positions,if you cannot Justify as to why,certain people remain Not being interviewed as part of Operation Grange,please explain why they remain Non Suspects,when they have clearly stated that they had seen an Alive Madeleine McCann on the above date?
Yet since that day No one has seen Madeleine alive but various News Papers have reported sightings of Madeleine,but on investigation,nothing,which leaves only one of Two outcomes?

by Guest 01.10.17 21:22

Phoeb wrote:
What's the betting that Op. Grange will now conduct new interviews with the McCanns, their Tapas friends and other British witnesses and that these new interviews will uncover things that were "lost in translation" or errors which gave a completely false picture?

What are the chances? Zero!

Operation Grange has now been 'operating' for well over six years - they, or a source close to the Metropolitan Police, have made clear their feeble reasoning for not interviewing the McCanns or their group of friends - they will most definitely not volte-face now on the basis of a random press report.

Trouble with the press reports, the populace will believe a story if that's what they want to believe - likewise they will reject a story they don't want to believe. This simple fact has been proven time and time again in the case of the McCann saga. Why else do you think these fake stories are engineered if not to create confusion?

Shoddy journalism will never ever contribute to anything constructive. They swing and sway like a palm tree battling hurricane Irma - and are equally destructive if I might say.

Colin Sutton's vapid 'throw away' comment is still being bandied about as though it has some deep significance. Has he followed it through to make it more meaningful? I think you'll find that answer is NO - and that's an emphatic NO !!!

by listener 02.10.17 0:20

rose1234 wrote:My blood is boiling. Not because I'm bothered about my money as a tax payer, and not even because TM win again (wouldn't expect anything less). But because my tiny shred of hope that we are not living in some kind of matrix has diminished.

It's hard to carry on hoping for justice when our thoughts and opinions are just so insignificant in the scheme of things.

:'(

I understand your feelings well. I am Scottish.

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive!"

by MayMuse 02.10.17 2:01

Verdi wrote:
Phoeb wrote:
What's the betting that Op. Grange will now conduct new interviews with the McCanns, their Tapas friends and other British witnesses and that these new interviews will uncover things that were "lost in translation" or errors which gave a completely false picture?
What are the chances? Zero!

Operation Grange has now been 'operating' for well over six years - they, or a source close to the Metropolitan Police, have made clear their feeble reasoning for not interviewing the McCanns or their group of friends - they will most definitely not volte-face now on the basis of a random press report.

Trouble with the press reports, the populace will believe a story if that's what they want to believe - likewise they will reject a story they don't want to believe. This simple fact has been proven time and time again in the case of the McCann saga. Why else do you think these fake stories are engineered if not to create confusion?

Shoddy journalism will never ever contribute to anything constructive. They swing and sway like a palm tree battling hurricane Irma - and are equally destructive if I might say.

Colin Sutton's vapid 'throw away' comment is still being bandied about as though it has some deep significance. Has he followed it through to make it more meaningful? I think you'll find that answer is NO - and that's an emphatic NO !!!

Interesting.. as Jerry Lawton has just reported this... I've just read a post by Keitei.... did this give "them" ideas?

by MayMuse 02.10.17 2:14

willowthewisp wrote:
nglfi wrote:So according to the Times, the renewed funding is as much to rule someone out as in? That being the case this farce is literally endless. How many millions of people do we have to rule out before we accept the prime suspects are responsible?

It's also an absolute joke that they continuously slag off the Portuguese police and then rely on their translations to conduct their 'investigation'.
Hi nglfi,I thought Operation Grange had all of the Portugal statements translated from Portuguese into English at a cost of over £100,000,so why now state in the Times article,that they have been relying on the Portuguese based statements?
I am almost certain Assistant Commander of the Metropolitan Police Service,Mark Rowley had stated this in a previous statement!
As Phoebe has pointed out,The Metropolitan Police Service are now desperately scraping the bottom of the barrel,for an explanation as to what is likely to have happened to Madeleine McCann,reported to disappeared by her parents from Apartment 5a Ocean Club 3 May 2007?
As to what was put on the Street Signs in Portugal,Please stop the McCann Farce,Now?

If the UK Police Force are unwilling to carry out their duties,"Without Fear Nor Favour"then resign from your positions,if you cannot Justify as to why,certain people remain Not being interviewed as part of Operation Grange,please explain why they remain Non Suspects,when they have clearly stated that they had seen an Alive Madeleine McCann on the above date?
Yet since that day No one has seen Madeleine alive but various News Papers have reported sightings of Madeleine,but on investigation,nothing,which leaves only one of Two outcomes?

I thought it was Kate who said the fund had paid to translate the files at a cost of 100K and she meticulously went through them... and used by Alphaig? So did OG also translate the Portuguese files or simply borrow the McCanns?

Either way two sets could have been compared in all this time...so why now? Is this the last throw of the Dice?

It just keeps on rolling doesn't it?

by plebgate 02.10.17 5:49

I do believe it was Hogan Howe on video who said that the files had been translated at considerable cost at the start of SY review.

None of the whole business makes any sense to me. So if the money has been given more to rule someone out as in why does it need to take so long? Have em in, interview them (as they have with every other Tom, Dick and Harry) and either book em or let em go. Why does it need to take so long?

Oh maybe they can't find this person If that is the case why not put out a photo of them and ask the general public to help?

Taxpayers' money after taxpayers' money. Nobody else has ever had this level of money spent on them - is it any wonder people are asking why this particular couple are being given this amount of help especially when there is a very big amount of money sitting waiting to be spent when this investigation finally ends?

Take the money that is sitting in the bank from them - let them pay toward the further investigation to rule someone out.

by **Jill Havern** 02.10.17 9:36

From PeterMac:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

and then buried down the page . . .
“It is as much to rule the person out of the inquiry as anything else,” a source told the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

In other words there is one last un-actioned TIE in the book !
Once they have done that - then what ?

Eliminate all other factors, and the one which remains must be the truth.
It is a capital mistake to theorize before you have all the evidence. It biases the judgment. Study in Scarlet

by sar 02.10.17 9:51

listener wrote:
rose1234 wrote:My blood is boiling. Not because I'm bothered about my money as a tax payer, and not even because TM win again (wouldn't expect anything less). But because my tiny shred of hope that we are not living in some kind of matrix has diminished.

It's hard to carry on hoping for justice when our thoughts and opinions are just so insignificant in the scheme of things.

:'(
I understand your feelings well. I am Scottish.

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive!"

My Scottish Grandmother used to use that expression when I was a kid, now I know what it really means!

by willowthewisp 02.10.17 12:17

Get'emGonçalo wrote:From PeterMac:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

and then buried down the page . . .
“It is as much to rule the person out of the inquiry as anything else,” a source told the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

In other words there is one last un-actioned TIE in the book !
Once they have done that - then what ?

Eliminate all other factors, and the one which remains must be the truth.
It is a capital mistake to theorize before you have all the evidence. It biases the judgment. Study in Scarlet

So the £154,000 dollar question so to speak,is,who is this very"Special person" who needs to be ruled out of the Investigation,is that person part of the Tapas seven or Knows the parents?
Have Operation Grange conversed with the Portugal PJ,Interpol,Thunderbirds of this illusive individual,who holds all the keys to the mystery of Madeleine McCann's disappearance?
Do you wish to have a final jaunt in March 2018 to issue more request to hold more innocent Portugal people as suspects,trying to obtain DNA from the suspects for your"Forensic analysis"Barry George,Jill Dando Murder,eh, Hamish Campbell?
I wonder if this"One"individual to be ruled out is of "Foreign looks",you know as described as the possible Abductor,JT?
Keep looking over there,Not over Here?

by sar 02.10.17 12:31

had a quick scan of the front pages of the rags but no sign of this story. Must be within pages, surprised as it's usually a headline grabber?

by Guest 02.10.17 12:44

plebgate wrote:I do believe it was Hogan Howe on video who said that the files had been translated at considerable cost at the start of SY review.

by **Jill Havern** 02.10.17 12:49

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by jeanmonroe 03.10.17 1:03

Does it really 'cost' £154,000, to 'lodge an appeal' at the ECHR, these days? winkwink

by Guest 03.10.17 1:07

Get'emGonçalo wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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McCanns private detectives documentation

by **Jill Havern** 16.10.17 9:12

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by Liz Eagles 16.10.17 9:25

The knife and gun crime in my area goes largely unreported by both the Press and the Police.

The police helicopter is often up in the air in the wee small hours.

In this large suburban area the police station has been closed to the general public whilst down the road in the 'posh place' there is a police station.

To report a crime entails dialling 101 on a call that is not covered by any service provider in a paid package.

How demotivated can a police force become?

Madeleine McCann: Government 'gives police £154,000' to extend search for missing toddler