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McCann Interview Transcripts

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Re: McCann Interview Transcripts

Post by Verdi on 29.08.17 12:20

Witness Statement of Alexander James CAMERON 

Occupation: Professor/teacher

This testimony (constituted by three pages and signed by me) is the truth and in accordance with my understanding. I give this testimony with the knowledge that, knowingly making false statements may subject me to legal action.

Date: 15 of April 2008
___________________________

I am the above referenced person, also known between friends and family as 'Sandy.' I have been married to my wife Patricia CAMERON for 23 years but we knew each other for a few years before that. Patricia is Gerry McCann's sister, making me Gerry's brother-in-law. I got to know Gerry roughly the same time I got to know Patricia' approximately 30 years. Around 10 years ago, Gerry married Kate Healy and since that time I have know Kate. Gerry and Kate have three children, Madeleine (4 years old) and the twins Sean and Amelie (2 years old). I have met with Kate and Gerry and the children on numerous occasions both tat their home and in mine. I also visited the family when Gerry was working in Amsterdam.

On the night of Thursday, May 3, 2007, Patricia received a telephone call from Gerry informing us of the disappearance of Madeleine. Gerry manifested all those emotions one expects from a father who has lost a child in the circumstances. He was distraught and spoke at the same time he cried. He seemed frustrated with the slowness of the searches in Portugal, with the fact that the borders had not been closed, and with the fact that sniffer dogs were not being used. Patricia and I contacted the British Embassy to try and help in this regard. We also decided to fly to Portugal in order to offer all our help and support to Kate and Gerry. It was not possible for us to arrange to a flight on Friday, and consequently left Manchester to faro on Saturday, May 5, 2007. When we arrived in Praia da Luz we found Kate and Gerry. At this time we noticed a huge interest from the media regarding what had happened and Gerry and Kate were being helped in part by the Foreign (traveller) Services, representatives from Mark Warner and other members of the family.

They continued to demonstrate much distress and tried to deal with all the advice given to them, much of which was contradictory. When we arrived in Portugal we stayed in an apartment in the Mark Warner Praia da Luz complex. Kate and Gerry were still lodged in the same complex, even though it was not the same apartment. We had a separate apartment on the same floor and close to two doors somewhat of a distance. During part of this time, our days had similar routines. During the day we would leave the apartment to meet with Kate and Gerry in order to care for the twins Sean and Amelie, and also to cook for all of us. Kate and Gerry would use our apartment as an office in order to have meetings and to effect search plans for Madeleine. This continued until the end of June, at a time when Mark Warner required that we leave the complex and at a time when tourist high season was about to begin.

During these first two months we provided help to Kate and Gerry, and only returned to the U.K. on two occasions in order to take care of some personal business. In the beginning of July of 2007, we left the Ocean Club and moved to a villa with Kate, Gerry and the twins in the Montinhos zone, around 1.5 km from the OC. We never noticed anything strange in the site were we stayed.

On the 27th of May of 2007, Gerry was handed a rental vehicle in the Mark Warner tourist complex; a Renault Scenic with plate number 59-DA-27. I met with the representative of the car rental agency at Gerry's request, and as such, my name was also on the rental contract so that I could also drive the vehicle; to drive the children and to go shopping. These were things that Gerry was too occupied to carry out himself. I was the habitual drive of the vehicle and used it daily. I drove to many places, including the airport, local supermarkets, and drove the children to the zoo and the beaches in the area. I also travelled as a passenger on many occasions, when Kate, Gerry or other people were visiting, or driving the vehicle.

People who were present in the vehicle were Kate, Gerry, Sean, Amelie, Mike Wright, Janet (Kate's aunt), Kate's mother and father, and her friend Amanda. Basically, the vehicle served as a transport for friend and family who cam to offer their help to Kate and Gerry and also to effect daily routines. The same vehicle was also used to move us from the Ocean Club to the villa, transporting all the luggage and personal objects from one location to the other. During these trips, the children seats would be removed to create space.

Whilst in the villa, a gardener would arrive every week or about every 15 days. This was organized by the estate agency. The gardener would leave black rubbish bags near the gate, and on at least one occasion, I used the vehicle to remove these bags. The collection of rubbish in Portugal is not made as it is in the U.K., and for this reason, it was necessary to take the rubbish to a tip (disposal area) which was called 'recycling area' near the back of the Ocean Club. I used the Renault Scenic for this reason on many occasions.

On one occasion, I believe it was on July of 2007, I took Patricia to the supermarket. We carried bags in the boot (trunk) of the Renault Scenic; bought various items including fresh fish, shrimp and beef. When we unloaded the shopping bags, we noticed that blood has run out of the bottom of the plastic bag. After this shopping trip and still in the month of July 2007, I began to notice a strange odour in the car. I did not give it much importance and assumed it was likely due to the leakage from the rubbish bags or from the blood which had escaped from the shopping bags. As a result, we removed the carpet from the boot (trunk) in order to clean it. I tossed (beat) the boot carpet to remove any particles and cleaned it with a wet cloth and left it to air out.

In my opinion, it is impossible that Kate and Gerry could have hidden Madeleine or used the car to transport her to another locale. There was always a lot of people and the media observing their movements which would make this impossible. As I cited previously, I have know Madeleine her whole life and saw her on many occasions. I always found her a very smart little girl and careful with strangers. I also saw when she woke after a nap and after a night of sleep. She would occasionally appear irritated as she would when her parents were not present. For this reason, I believe that Madeleine had been awakened by a stranger she would certainly have screamed or cried out. I do not believe that there is any possibility that she would have let a stranger take her without protest.

Relative to what is cited above, I will add that I was interviewed via DVD by Dc Gierc of the Leicestershire police between 09h58 and 10h39 on Tuesday, 15 of April of 2008 in the Leicestershire Police Squad. I confirm that my DVD testimony is true and in accordance with my understanding.

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Re: McCann Interview Transcripts

Post by Verdi on 13.09.17 12:26

Gerry McCann:  BBC Edinburgh - 25th August 2007 


Nick: 'Gerry McCann, why did you want to come here to a conference of television executives?'

GM: 'I think the first thing to say Nick is that when I actually agreed to do it we hadn't predicted what was going to happen to the degree of coverage and really, the reason I'm here was primarily to tell people that Madeleine is still missing and we're still looking for her and particularly to touch an international audience...what I didn't expect was such an intense coverage of the news story for such a long time.'

Nick: 'Why do think that is?'

GM: 'I think I, err that there is undoubtedly a huge desire for people to...one want to find Madeleine but to to know what's happening erm...but there clearly is a lot of pressure on people to write things just now because they're in Portugal when there's not very much happening.'

Nick: Do you feel in some ways you've unleashed a monster? in the very early stages you were desperate for publicity and you err, err, courted publicity effectively...now do you feel it's run away from you?

GM: I, I think that's far too simplistic. There was a huge media presence in Praia da Luz on day one before we had really done anything. All we did was to make a conscious decision to interact with the media err and to raise awareness of Madeleine's disappearance and erm I never ever expected and err I don't think it's necessarily beneficial to have constant coverage...er what we just want want is given the huge saturation, particularly in the UK
and also Portugal...what we really just want to do...I mean we hope it
never gets there but if Madeleine is still missing we just want to
remind people from time to time, infrequently now that she is still
missing and we're still looking'.

Nick: 'From the outside it appears that you've been running...candidly,
crudely a very professional campaign with a lot of very experienced
public relations professionals and so on...(Gerry is grinning at this
point) I mean clearly that is accidental but how did that come about?'

GM: 'Well it's not at all, you know we're just err happen to be a fairly ordinary family err some of whom were quite good at err speaking on television. Of course, we had advice at the beginning
from the PR people brought in by Mark Warner, Alex Woolfall who gave us
some excellent advice....you know, what are your objectives and how's
it going to help your search for Madeleine? ...and then due to this
massive media demand on us - not the other way round - not us asking for media
we were advised that we should have a family spokesperson and we asked
the Foreign Office to provide that and they did support us and that was
very, very important to protect us from the media in what has been incredibly difficult emotional circumstances.. and then we, we of course did decide that we needed someone to help advise us err longer term for our campaign and with Madeleine's Fund we decided to appoint a campaign manager...and I have to say appointed someone to plan our strategy sort of medium and long term if it was needed but actually her job has been full-time handling the media. '

Nick: 'Would you like the media then now to go away...what do you want to happen over the coming weeks and months apart obviously from getting Madeleine back?'

GM: 'I think the key thing is that erm what we would ask that the, the story Madeleine's disappearance and investigation is reported responsibly and only newsworthy material being reported. '

Nick: 'So you would like much less coverage.'

GM: 'Absolutely, you know because there has been huge amounts written with no substance.'

Nick: 'How stressful have you found it and has Kate found it?'

GM: 'Madeleine being missing has been incredibly stressful..being under media spotlight erm has added to that and at times, leading up to the 100 days that did reach fever pitch and we felt very much erm badgered and erm unfairly I suppose as well...and err probably something we were prepared for in the first week or two, which didn't actually happen ...to have as it approached the 100 days, we, we weren't prepared for but things have gone back to a degree of normality again and erm some calmness has erm settled in largely as a result of the Portuguese official spokesperson...and that is what I would ask people to look at is what is being said officially, that we are not suspects, that there is no evidence that we're involved in Madeleine's disappearance and if there was that the police would have to declare us as suspects... that's Portuguese law...and compare that to what has been written and covered...the two do not bear comparison'.

[Thanks to CMoMM member aquila for transcript]

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Re: McCann Interview Transcripts

Post by Jill Havern on 08.10.17 12:07

Short transcript from CM Special: "Maddie, the Mystery"


Anchor João Ferreira - I would like for you to tell us in detail your explanation for the disappearance of the body, you have a thesis..

Gonçalo Amaral - No, I don't have one.

Anchor - ... in this book...

Gonçalo Amaral - No, in that book there isn't anything concerning what we just saw me saying on the news piece that was shown. Because these are elements, these are information that appeared afterwards and were never investigated. It's just an hypothesis, and when considering that hypothesis...

Anchor - An hypothesis that Madeleine's body could have been hidden, could have been incinerated, right?

Gonçalo Amaral - There's an information here, in the police, that mentions that. That in a night, three figures were seen carrying a bag, entering the church...

Anchor - In the Praia da Luz church.

Gonçalo Amaral - In that church was a coffin of a woman, a woman from the United Kingdom...

Anchor - Of a British woman.

Gonçalo Amaral - ... and in the following day that coffin was transferred to Ferreira do Alentejo to be incinerated. But no one is saying that the parents did that, or saying who did that. It's something that someone who is on the field investigating has to ascertain, must investigate thoroughly.

Anchor - But you concede that hypothesis, that possibility of Madeleine's cadaver being taken to the church, and then incinerated is a plausible hypothesis...

Gonçalo Amaral - We're practically starting by the end, first is the disappearance, if you allow me to explain, to explain to the viewers... [overlapping speech]

Anchor - I'll allow you, but just so not to lose this train of thought, is this hypothesis plausible for you?

Gonçalo Amaral - It is plausible, and I say plausible in this sense, that that body would fit underneath the cadaver that was already there.

Anchor - And it would fit?

Gonçalo Amaral - It would, yes. At the time, when I was already out of the Judiciary Police I obtained the opinion of people that dealt with that, of funeral agencies, and they said that it was a possibility. It's an opinion that is not officialized but it's a possibility. If it happened like that or not, we don't know, there are several hypotheses to make a body disappear. Joana Morais




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Re: McCann Interview Transcripts

Post by Verdi on 18.10.17 21:42

McCanns quizzed by reputable journalist Sandra Felgueiras outside the Lisbon courts - January 2010

Pivot: Gerry McCann repudiated the PJ Inspectors who stated in court that their daughter Madeleine is dead. The father of the child disappeared in the Algarve, accuses therefore the Inspector Ricardo Paiva of lying, when he said that his wife Kate called him, in the summer of 2007, telling that she had a dream where her daughter was dead and buried at hill in Praia da Luz. The PJ inspector said that this dream was decisive to change the course of investigations.

Voice over (Sandra Felgueiras): After yesterdays absolute silence, Gerry and Kate arrived at the civil court at 9:30 am, ready to blow off steam.

SF: How did you support hearing the inspectors repeating that Madeleine is dead and that you are involved?

Gerry McCann: The most important thing yesterday was what the prosecutor said, there's absolutely no evidence that Madeleine is dead.

Voice Over: At the same moment Gonçalo Amaral made a completely different assessment of the statements given yesterday by the former investigation colleagues. And even by the actual Nº2 of the PJ.

Gonçalo Amaral: Since yesterday I'm not the only one speaking, I can't say anything further since I'm in a injunction, so, about certain facts it's not only me talking. I'm not alone regarding that.

SF: Moita Flores ended up proving or corroborating, in the morning, that Madeleine couldn't have been abducted without any traces. During two hours, via video-conference, the former PJ inspector and actual Mayor of Santarém, praised the work done by the investigators of Madeleine's case, the same ones that Gerry McCann didn't spare criticism on his way out of the court, to go to London.

GM: It's particularly disappointing that certain police officers, withing Portimão, who considered us as possibly being involved in Madeleine's disappearence, have not been able to change their mind, inspite the lack of evidences. And it is this officers we are depending on for pursuing the investigation within Portugal.

GM: I would like to make absolutely clear that Kate has never had a dream, that Madeleine was buried somewhere. And, I don't know if something has been lost in interpretation, but that didn't happen.

Voice Over: Gerry declared untrue in this manner the sworn statement given yesterday by the inspector Ricardo Paiva, who, to the court explained that Kate's dream, that was told to him on the phone, two months later after the disappearance was crucial for the PJ to start investigating the hypothesis of the child being dead.

GM: We are not under trial, not at all. people may want to say that, but we were exonerated.[cut] The PJ tried... What was seen very clearly is that one thesis in particular tried to be proven, possibly more than any other.

SF: Do you think they were competent?

GM: (looks above SF) And there's no evidence to support it.

SF: Where they competent to you?

GM: (looks the other way) Sorry...

Sandra Felgueiras: He never criticized openly the Judiciary police but he implicitly made known what he thinks. Gerry McCann left this court at 4:30 pm, behind leaves Kate, who will be joined still today by Fiona Payne, one of the friends of the couple that was with them at the time of Madeleine's disappearence. The hearing will continue and end tomorrow.

Voice Over (unknown journalist): They arrived before 10am and decided to talk to journalists.

Gerry McCann: The same, to continue to fight for Madeleine, the search and to protect her family.

Sandra Felgueiras: How did you support hearing the inspectors repeating that Madeleine is dead and that you are involved?

Gerry McCann: The most important thing yesterday was what the prosecutor said, there's absolutely no evidence that Madeleine is dead.

SF: But then you heard...

GM: Let me finish, please. There's absolutely no evidence that Madeleine is dead, and there's absolutely no evidence that were involved in her disappearence. That is the conclusion...

SF: Three people saying...

GM: That is the conclusion of the process, and that's what we're here debating.

Voice over: In the first session, that lasted more than 9 hours, Gonçalo Amaral's witnesses defended that the book 'Maddie, A Verdade da Mentira' only exposes facts that pertain to the process. All of them sustained the thesis that the British child is dead and that the parents hid the cadaver. The hearing continues with Moita Flores statement, via video-conference, he is the last witness requested by Gonçalo Amaral to be heard. The former PJ inspector says that he is not alone and believes that the book will be back on the bookshops.

Gonçalo Amaral: If I didn't believe it, then I wouldn't believe in this Country's Justice, I wouldn't have started the opposition, so, we have to trust.

Sandra Felgueiras: How have you faced the McCann couple?

GA: How? In a natural way.

SF: I want to ask you if you were satisfied for having heard the inspectors that repeated the thesis that you shared on the book?

Gonçalo Amaral: Since yesterday, I'm not the only one speaking, I can't say anything further since I'm in a injunction, so, about certain facts it's not only me talking. I'm not alone regarding that.

Voice over: The McCanns allege that the book 'A Verdade da Mentira' and the documentary broadcast by TVI divulge a thesis which they consider unsustainable, and that is hampering the search of the child. The provisional measure was decreed in September, the Court will decide if the book will ever be commercialized again.

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Re: McCann Interview Transcripts

Post by Verdi on 31.10.17 15:50

Aled Jones interview with Kate McCann:  14th March 2010

Aled - Does Mothering Sunday, itself bring mixed emotions?

Kate - It does and it doesn’t. I mean, every day to be honest is quite difficult. I guess Mothers Day is another reminder really that Madeleine is not here. I think motherhood is a real gift and obviously I’ve got three children, and it’s a reminder that one of my babies isn’t with me but you know I’m still Madeleine’s mum, and I always will be.

Aled . How do you cope with a day like Mothering Sunday?

Kate - I guess it’s a little bit different now I think because we are working so hard perhaps days where we would have maybe done something really special we don’t necessarily, certainly Mothers Day, I think birthdays are different, children’ s birthdays and things but I think we just get through it like any other day really.

Aled - Do you get lots of support from family?

Kate - Oh we’ve had amazing support I mean our family has been great and that’s an important point really because everyone in our family has suffered and is going through a lot of pain and anxiety and we are all missing Madeleine, but we’ve all got to try and support each other

Aled - And what about your other children how aware are they of what is happening?

Kate - Very aware they talk about Madeleine every day they know she is missing they know she has been taken by somebody. They understand it a little bit like burglary, in that even if you really want something it doesn’t mean that we can take it because Madeleine belongs to us you know and it’s not right that they’ve got Madeleine and we need to find her but they talk about finding her, about you know finding Madeleine, and running away with her and coming back home. And even things like when we go on holiday they say ‘oh what will happen if the police find Madeleine and we are not there?’ And we say ‘oh don’t worry our next door neighbours will let us know.’ And they are very aware but they are very positive, they will always talk about, ‘ when Madeleine comes home’ Sean said to me the other week, well Amelie said to me “ Why do you work mummy?” and I said well “I’ve got to find Madeleine” and Sean said “ Yes mummy but when that’s OVER, when Madeleine is home what will you do?” (Kate sighs) and you think bring it on.

Aled - Does that help?

Kate - It does. They always say out of the mouths of babes. You know they are really positive and it really does keep us going. I think in years to come I’ll be able to tell Sean and Amelie just how important they have been in our life keeping us going and getting us through it all.

Aled - What effect has time had on you, has time healed at all?

Kate - It’s always funny that line isn’t it ‘time is a healer’ I think the wounds are less raw, the pain doesn’t go away, and the anxiety is always there. I’ m definitely a lot stronger than I was a year ago which is positive. It’s funny as sometimes you beat yourself up about it because I think how come I am doing okay and I’m coping better than I was that’s not right, because nothing has changed for Madeleine but yeh it’s important that I am because I’ve got three children, one to look for and two to look after, and it’s important that I can cope.

Aled - Do you feel guilty at being happy in a way then?

Kate - Yeah there is that element. I mean I know it’s okay to be happy and it’s important for Sean and Amelie that we do have happy times but there is a little bit of guilt really and a little bit discomfort in being able to adapt I guess.

A. How important a word is ‘hope’ for you?

Kate. - Oh very important we’ve obviously got hope, we’ve got a lot of hope really a lot of hope, hope that Madeleine is still alive. Obviously the difficult task is trying to find her but whilst there is hope we’ll keep going and certainly we’ll never give up..

Aled... - So what is Madeleine like?

Kate - Erm someone you just want everyone to meet her cos, erm she’s just an amazing little character full of personality loads of energy, quite knowing, erm , really funny and loving and you know her relationship with Sean and Amelie, it’s incredible really and that ‘s something which still gets to me at times. When I see them playing and they start talking about Madeleine, again, you know,when we were away Sean was digging in the sandpit and I said “What are you doing?” he said “ I’m digging up buried treasure mummy and I’m going to give it to Madeleine.” And you just kind of think really, what would it be like for the three of them to be together?

Aled - What are some your most treasured memories?

Kate. - Oh my God there’s lots. I used to take Madeleine swimming on a Saturday morning and she used to have this really tight swimming cap on and I’d be watching through the glass and she was the youngest there, she was only three and she would just walk along on her own really confident and get in and these huge eyes would be looking at me through the glass and shed just be waving you know, hi mummy and I’d be texting Gerry saying she has got me crying again, and just lying with her you know and conversations, it had got to the stage where me and Madeleine would go to lunch together you know and it felt like a real girls day out.

Aled - I know you are a person of faith which I would like to talk about after we have had some music I don’t know if you listen to music at all?

Kate - No, we do, we listen to a lot of music it’s been a little bit strange to be honest because since Madeleine was taken from us I actually struggled quite a lot to listen to music and I actually put classical music on rather than anything remotely, I guess, happy, with lyrics or stuff dance type music anything like that but gradually I am able to listen to it again now.

Aled - And what would you like to listen to today?

Kate - Chasing Cars by Snow Patrol.

Aled - Why Snow Patrol?

Kate - This is a song that both, myself and Gerry really liked and in fact after Madeleine had gone it was a song that was quite difficult to listen to, actually it kind of it made us both quite upset because it reminded us of happy times of Madeleine but at the same time it reminded us of Madeleine. So, from that point of view it is quite a special song and I think the lyrics if I just lay here will you lie with me and Madeleine would often used to say at bedtime lie with me mummy lie with me daddy and they were really special vivid moments.

MUSIC

Aled - Is every day bad?

Kate – No, not every day is bad but it is strange I can have three or four days where the days just go, basically I am working I am looking after Sean and Amelie, I get through a day get up same for the next day, and then something can suddenly out of the blue just really upset me and it can be something quite innocuous it can just trigger something, makes you aware that you don’t have to scratch too far below the surface for that emotion to come bubbling out. You get through it, I mean luckily two of us together are quite a ‘unit’ really, usually one of us can pull the other one up when needs be.

Aled - What does it feel like having worlds glare on you?

Kate - I think you take it for granted really what being anonymous was like it’s been very hard I mean I’m not the most confident person on the planet and I’d never be a someone who would get up and give a presentation at work or anything I’d try avoid it like the plague but we’ve obviously been forced into this situation.

Aled - You’ve changed a lot as well haven’t you because in the beginning you were very much in the background whereas now you are not?

Kate - Absolutely, I think I was just, obviously I was going through a lot of pain and distress but also I was just really uncomfortable being in the spotlight and then I had to kind of say to myself’ well why are we doing it, we’re doing it to try and find Madeleine and it’s not about me and it doesn’t matter how uncomfortable I feel you know it’s Madeleine we are trying to help. Forget about me move on get over it.’

Aled - Are there times when you don’t feel strong?

Kate - Oh Yeh yeh, there are have been a lot of things in the last almost three years, erm not even just Madeleine being taken from us, which was obviously the worst, but there has been many things that have happened subsequently and they can also be really low times dark times when you do doubt your faith I have to be honest, but at the same time it’s strange, because we’ve been through that, I do believe there is a greater good and in some ways it kind of strengthens my faith really.

Aled - Because in a way because what you are experiencing for many people would be hell on earth?

Kate - No, it is. I think it the worst thing that could happen to a parent certainly one of the worst things I mean the pain is just, just incredible and it’s the pain of worry for her really I mean we live with the sadness of not having Madeleine in our lives but you know I’m her mum and I can’t help but worry about her and I just want to be with her, if she has a sore tummy I want to be there, when she is upset I want to be there. I just want to bring her back into the warmth and love of our family.

Aled - Are there ever times when you blame God?

Kate - I’ve never blamed God for what happened, at all. I don’t think that was anything to do with God. There are times when I’ve got angry with God and certainly the, the additional things that I have mentioned that have happened where I just think why can we have extra suffering put on us at such an awful time and I just haven’t understood it and I wondered why God hasn’t interceded and tried to counter that. These are the times when I go off to the church to be honest, I mean I’ve got a key to the church they’ve kindly given me one sometimes I go in and oh it’s a bit of a sanctuary a bit of a refuge I’ll go and I can speak out – because obviously there’s no one there – just get it all off my chest really. I mean I do wonder you know why should God help my prayers when there are millions of people with prayers which are equally as important around the world, I don’t know I mean I just hope he does but, my faith has really sustained me I think a lot through all of this and it is a definite comfort there.

Aled - Has your faith changed at all?

Kate - I think it has probably got stronger definitely I think before all this happened that I’d never really had to question my faith you know it was there I believed in God I’d had little conversations with God in my head but I never really had to challenge it I was just comfortable with my relationship with my faith and with God but it’s definitely got stronger now it’s probably more intense. Em the day I was made arguido was quite an interesting day with regards to my faith I’d had a period of about 4 to 6 weeks prior to that where there had obviously been a shift in the investigation and suddenly none of the police were talking to us, we couldn’t have a meeting people didn’t want to have phone conversations with us, I mean we were left in this awful void of information really, so we were trying to cope with the pain of not having Madeleine but also not having any information and not knowing at all what was going on and then that led on to the period when suddenly there were these awful stories coming out in the media about supposed blood in the apartment, basically pointing the finger at us then obviously that subsequently finished with us being arguido and the day I was going in for my arguido interview was quite a strange day because I had been really low and feeling quite weak and fragile and then suddenly I just felt really strong, I mean I was angry, I was angry that people hadn’t been looking for Madeleine but also I just thought to myself ‘ I know the truth and God knows the truth and nothing else matters’ and I just felt really strong from then I felt a real inner strength.

Aled - Do you think God is looking after Madeleine?

Kate - I do, I mean to me Madeleine was a gift, most our life is pretty public anyway, but you know obviously we had quite a difficult time trying to have Madeleine and when she was born I really did believe she was a gift and I never took her for granted you know every day when I’d wake up and I’d see these huge eyes looking at me and I’d say thank God for Madeleine. I don’t believe he would stop loving her now or abandon her and I don’t believe that at all, and I do get a comfort in thinking that that wherever she is whoever she is with that he is with her and protecting her, protecting her spirit and she’s got a lot of spirit. (Kate laughs)

Aled - Do you find that your prayers have changed over the years?

Kate - I guess a little bit more directed now. The prayer that I used to say all the time was to, to keep the family, thank God for my family to keep Gerry Madeleine Sean and Amelie safe healthy and happy I always said that, which when it happened, to be honest was a little bit of a struggle as that was the one prayer that I said all of the time. I pray for lots of things now really, obviously I always pray for the family obviously most of the prayers are centred on Madeleine really but I pray for the people who’ve taken Madeleine the people who know what has happened to Madeleine, and the people around/ related to the person who has taken Madeleine. And I pray for the police and the investigators, people who are looking for her and I pray for all the other children who are missing or have been exploited in some way, because in some ways, funny to say lucky, but we have been lucky we’ve had a lot of support from the general public in particular people we don’t know we’ve had incredible support and there are many families out there whose children have gone missing and you don’t hear about it.

Aled - Gerry said his faith has been strengthened by the goodness generated by this ordeal so there are positives that have come out of it?

Kate - Ah very much so. We still get a bundle of mail every day from people, you know willing us on sending their best wishes. Children send pictures for Madeleine and stuff, and you know we have books of prayers sent for Madeleine that children have written. It’s been amazing. It’s been a real eye opener, you know I’d have never thought of sitting down and writing a letter to someone I didn’t know who’d suffered tragic event and yet the strength it has given us is amazing.

Aled - It would be understandable for you to be filled with hate and anger and rage and yet you’re not at all?

Kate - I’ve had my moments if I went back to 2008 I think I did probably have a lot of anger on board and it’s such a horrible negative emotion . I’m pleased to say that, that anger has gone now and I feel so much better than I did in 2008.

Aled - Do you think you’d ever be able to forgive the people who took Madeleine?

Kate - That’s a difficult one isn’t it? I guess I don’t know why they’ve taken her and I think until I know that it would be hard, hard to say. I’d like to hope that I could but it’s difficult.

Aled - On Mothering Sunday do you have a message for other mothers who may be experiencing similar emotions to what you are going through?

Kate - Yeah I think erm – long pause- , dig deep really, just keep hoping and be around your family and friends, really gather their love, surround yourself with positive people but dont’ give up.

Aled - Thank you for talking to me

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Re: McCann Interview Transcripts

Post by Verdi on 22.11.17 15:37

Fox News - 10th September 2007

VAN SUSTEREN: According to the British media, Portuguese police say Kate McCann  failed to prevent her daughter Madeleine's death, and they now claim proof. This proof, according to reports, includes forensic evidence found at the Portuguese apartment where the McCanns were staying with Madeleine. It also includes the car the family rented nearly a month after they reported the toddler missing.

Forensic pathologist Dr. Michael Baden joins us.

DR. MICHAEL BADEN, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Hi, Greta.

VAN SUSTEREN: Good evening, Dr. Baden. Dr. Baden, I must admit I find the reports perplexing in this story, and I'm not sure what to believe and what not to believe and how to be fair to the McCanns and fair to Madeleine and everybody else involved.

BADEN: Well, I think what's happening is we may be going down the road of three recent notorious cases. The worst of them, Jon Benet Ramsey. They call up (ph) a kidnapping. The police come, and they don't protect the scene. They muck up the scene. They never solve it properly. This was — this — the Portuguese police should have sealed and protected the scene. They didn't.

Natalee Holloway, where the concern was more, in my opinion, tourism than finding the possibility that a local could have killed a tourist. And many people in Aruba still think that Natalie Holloway ran away and is alive or that the family had something to do.

And the Duke players, where the prosecution claimed they had more evidence than they really had.

And I think — remember, 25 days, the body is severely decomposing. Where do they keep a decomposing body that has a terrible odor within a few days? Have they put it in the back of a car? If there was DNA from the body in the back of the car, it would have soaked into the rug. They couldn't get rid of it. Instead, apparently, the McCanns had hired the car to take away a lot of their clothing elsewhere, including the baby's, Madeleine's, clothing and toys, which have DNA on it.

VAN SUSTEREN: So you'd have a transference, which (INAUDIBLE)

BADEN: A transference of hair, of skin cells into the back of the car. I don't believe they could have blood, red blood still in a 25-day-old body.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Let me ask two questions because, I mean, I find this whole DNA transference thing as the most likely thing, but I don't know. It's early in the investigation.

BADEN: Right.

VAN SUSTEREN: In the event that they found her blood this late, could they tell whether or not there was any drug in the blood? If you find some dried-up blood, you know, three months or four months later...

BADEN: It's possible. It's amazing what they can do now. Toxicology has advanced tremendously. And even with drops of blood — you know, large drops of blood — they can find whether or not there are drugs in that blood. It's unlikely because after 25 days, the blood would have all turned greenish and wouldn't be recognized as blood.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. One other sort of unusual situation here. These are in vitro babies...

BADEN: That's right.

VAN SUSTEREN: ... the two babies that they — and I guess that we don't know if they truly are both the biological parents of these — of Madeleine. So any blood that was found, would that have a DNA twist to it in terms of trying to determine...

BADEN: That would. When they say it matches Madeleine, how do they know what Madeleine's DNA is? They haven't found Madeleine. They don't know what her DNA is. And the parents would know whether or not it was his sperm and her egg, but...

VAN SUSTEREN: So there's another whole 'nother twist to it...

BADEN: That's another...

VAN SUSTEREN: ... that needs to be investigated.

BADEN: Another issue, yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Well, we just got to stick to the facts and see what we can figure out. Thank you, Dr. Baden.

BADEN: Thank you, Greta.

[Acknowledgement pamalam]

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Re: McCann Interview Transcripts

Post by Verdi on 22.11.17 15:58

Gerry mentions murder transcript

Gerry McCann: Its an encouraging thing that um they are looking at all possibilities and being very thorough and err its an excellent example of collaboration, between both the British and the Portuguese police...working together ultimately to try and solve the case of Madeleine and whats happened to her.

Kate McCann: Yeah,I mean we've got an excellent relationship with the Portuguese Police and we need to keep that link um and the flow of information has been great actually,its been very reassuring.

Gerry McCann: We very much know that you know, they like frank information and its much easier for us to deal with when they do that and err we were well aware that these developments were going to happen. We were informed in advance but naturally this length of time we're desperate to find Madeleine. Thats the key thing. Of course um its difficult but we expect the same thoroughness and be treated the same way as anyone else who has been in and around us.I mean we would'nt expect it any other way. We're not naive err but on numerous ocassions the Portuguese police have assured us that they were looking for Madeleine alive and not murdered..being murdered and I don't know of any information thats changed that. Of course, the information and the way the investigations going is about thoroughness and making sure that everyone is as confident as possible..that...that is the case um Kate and I strongly believe that Madeleine was alive when she was taken from the apartment. Obviously what we don't know, is what happened to her afterwards , whose taken her and what the motive is and we are desperate to find that out.

Kate McCann: And as Gerry just said (inaudible). Police said they are looking for a living child and they have said that a lot.

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Re: McCann Interview Transcripts

Post by Verdi on 07.12.17 12:36

Jon Corner - CNN Newsroom Interview aired on 7th September 2007

HARRIS: John Corner joins us now. He is a friend to the McCanns and the godfather to their twins.

John, good to talk to you.

What is your reaction to the news that Kate McCann is now a suspect in the disappearance of Maddie?

JOHN CORNER, FRIEND OF MCCANNS: Well, I'm appalled, but I'm also frustrated. You know, I've worked very, very hard with Kate and Gerry in the campaign to find our missing child and our missing Madeleine. And what we're worried about truly is that this investigation or this new line that the Portuguese police have taken is going to derail those real efforts.

You know, we were in Spain only a few weeks ago and dropping posters in different towns in Spain. And what we were amazed that is 50 percent of the people that we were approaching had never heard of Madeleine. And that's what we're up against right at street level of getting those posters out. And that advice had come to us from the U.S. The International Center for Missing and Exploited Children have been marvelous in their support and guidance and direction. They're the world experts. And they're saying to us, you know, six months in an average time. So hang on in there. Keep looking for Madeleine. And now this.

HARRIS: Well, John, I'm trying to understand here, Kate is now an official formal suspect. You believe she had nothing to do with this disappearance?

CORNER: Absolutely. Absolutely.

HARRIS: So why do you think she's a suspect? And have you heard -- you certainly are aware of the new evidence that seems to be pointing, at least the authorities, in her direction?

CORNER: Well, you know, whenever Kate and Gerry hear that there's new evidence or new technological evidence, it gives them hope because they think the Portuguese police are going to have a new breakthrough, it's going to lead us to whoever's abducted Madeleine. It's going to allow us to get her back home safely. And I think it's truly frustrating and exasperating. It's just dreadful that the mind set of the police is quite the opposite, that they're actually looking into the parents and not looking out, not doing the search, not doing the intensive work that we really need . . .

HARRIS: You would have been surprised -- John, you would have been surprised if the authorities hadn't looked at the parents, wouldn't you?

CORNER: Well, you know, Kate and Gerry were interviewed at some length in that first few days. Interviewed extensively. And that's good -- that due diligence, that's good practice. You know, all police forces do that. You look, you interview the parents, you clear them and you move on and we get out there and find Madeleine. And for us to come full circle after four months is just dreadful. It's (INAUDIBLE).

HARRIS: Well, how do you explain the apparent break-through in the case? You mentioned a break-through a moment ago. Well, there has been a break-through in the case, according to the authorities. How do you explain the blood in the rental car? A car rented more than 20 days after Maddie was reported missing? How do you explain it?

CORNER: It defies explanation, quite frankly. I have no idea. It flies in the face of common sense. I could speculate all day about that, but . . . HARRIS: Well wait a minute, John. I mean this is DNA evidence. This is DNA found in a rental car that was rented by the couple 20 days -- I'm just asking you, how do you explain it?

CORNER: It makes -- I can't explain it. It makes no sense. It makes no sense.

HARRIS: Do you or do you not . . .

CORNER: I just know that . . .

HARRIS: Do you not trust what the authorities are saying to you? Have you talked to Gerry or Kate about the new evidence?

CORNER: No, I haven't. Not about new evidence. Only about the police line of questioning last night. And, quite frankly, it makes no sense to me and I can't speculate on it. You know, it just -- it makes no sense at all.

HARRIS: So the authorities come back, let me just try this on you. The authorities come back to Kate and to Gerry because the question lingers, who leaves a three-year-old to watch two-year-old twins. Who does that?

CORNER: Well, you have to understand the situation. I think the only thing that Kate and Gerry are guilty of is a little bit of complacency. It's a very, very sleepy town. Well, it certainly was before the media . . .

HARRIS: Complacency? How about neglect?

CORNER: There has been police force (ph) . . .

HARRIS: How about neglect? How about child endangerment?

CORNER: Well, I disagree with that. I disagree with that. And if you talk to the International Center for Missing and Exploited Children, they disagree with that, too.

HARRIS: So as a general practice, it's OK with you, in your mind and the way you think for a three-year-old to be left to care for two- year-old twins?

CORNER: I'm not sure that's productive at this stage to talk about that. I mean, I've been to (INAUDIBLE). I've looked at it very carefully myself. And it literally was like sitting in your garden. That's how far away the apartment was.

HARRIS: OK. John Corner is a friend of the McCanns and, John, some tough questions to ask you, but we appreciate you stepping up to take those questions on for us.

CORNER: Yes.

HARRIS: Appreciate it. Thank you.

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Re: McCann Interview Transcripts

Post by Verdi on 19.12.17 0:40

Kate and Gerry McCann BBC Breakfast 01 May 2008

Bill Turnbull : On Saturday it'll be a year since Madeleine McCann disappeared from her family's holiday apartment in Portugal.

Sian Williams : And to mark this anniversary her parents Kate and Gerry are making a fresh appeal for information to find her. They joined us now. Hello to you both ! Thank you very much for coming in.

Why the media blitz ? In the documentary last night, Gerry, you said the whole world now knows about Madeleine MC, so why are you appealing for more information, is there any more information ?

Gerald McCann : That's the.., I think there is more information. The problem we have is we've always said that we would leave no stone unturned and we don't know what information is in the inquiry, what is not in the inquiry, what has been done and what hasn't been done, errm I think it's unlikely everything has been done and we need to know that because it's our daughter, we strongly believe she's still out there. People may not have come forward before, they may have come forward the information may not be seen as relevant, so we really want to appeal to people and clearly there's going to be absolutely huge media attention on us and this is trying to capitalize on that and there's going to be media attention whether we participated or not.

BT : We had a lot of emails from viewers, some supportive, some critical, some asking questions we can put some to you if we may, but let's just feel (video repeat) that one asks many times and says I understand that you must have been asked this a million times but she wants to know as a mother of a young child herself why you felt it was ok to leave the children while you went out to have some food. It's a question that keeps coming back and I know you've answered it many times, but people still want the answer.

Kate McCann :  I think that's right, I think we have answered and errm personally I feel we have been persecuted enough about this matter, and we do that to ourselves so we don't really need to keep going over it and I've heard many times I couldn't love Madeleine more than I do I would have done anything, I had no idea that there was a risk.. And I can't say more, really.

GMC : And there are 2 things there, the first is we felt completely safe, if we had had any inkling that it was unsafe we wouldn't have done it, the second thing is that we can't change it, you know, what we have done as we discovered Madeleine was taken, and we have done anything there, you know, no matter how many times...

KMC : (interrupting/speaking over) Let's not forget, let's not forget, you know, there has been an evil crime committed, you know whatever anybody says about us, is it right for somebody to go into your apartment and take your child out of her bed ?

BT : Do you think that's what happened because some people wonder is that what happened or is it possible that Madeleine woke up, was upset, went wandering looking for you and got lost that way...

KMC : (interrupting) I know, I know what has happened, I can't give too many details, can I, but I know my daughter, I know what I found and that's all I can say !

GMC : I mean that's very important, we are in a very difficult situation, because the files are still under judicial secrecy, we're not allowed to let out investigational details and therefore there is a number of issues, the way the room was...

KMC : And we know more than a lot of people actually (superior) standing up there, giving their opinions, we know more facts and a lot of people are just speculating.

SW : And you say that you can't tell us  those facts because you're still official suspects and still uninvolved...

KMC : (speaking over, protesting) No, it's judicial secrecy, you know...

SW : You know, you said the night before Madeleine and Sean had been very upset and

KMC : (speaking over) I didn't say that actually.

SW : That was in the statement wasn't it that was leaked out... Was that not the case ? Was she not upset the night before and talked to you the night before ?

KMC tries to protest.. despising

GMC : (very calm) Errm, what we said was.. the next morning Madeleine had said "why didn't you come when we cried last night ?" and at the time we thought "that's odd" and we looked at each other and asked her directly what she meant and she just dropped and moved on. And we thought, when the time we've been (mumble) checking it would be exceptional for particularly the twins to cry and go back to sleep in between our checks so... Obviously kids cry all the time when they're bathed, when they're tired and when you're doing that now we did wonder when they were getting put to bed or around that time, and I think you have to remember that for us everything is seen in context with the abduction. And at that time we had a very relaxed family holiday and yes it was a little line there (? strange) but ...

KMC : (interrupting) You know, hindsight is a wonderful thing. If what happened didn't happened we wouldn't, you know, it wouldn't have crossed our minds again that Madeleine was making that comment, because of what happened, suddenly it was significant and that's the reason why we told the police.

BT : A lot of children are taking a close interest, are concerned with what happened. Ryan, 12 years old, asks how much it is affecting the other children, the twins, as you mentioned nearly three, a year on how staying strong for yourself and the children. The twins, what do they know about this ?

KMC : I mean Sean and Amelie are amazing little people and, you know, they love Madeleine very much and Madeleine was with them for most of their life, you know, she's still very much in their life and they know she's missing and they know that everyone is looking for her, but as yet, you know, they're not asking more questions and to be honest we can't tell them really, because we don't know.''

SW : I just want to put that one as well. He is 13, he asks similar questions as the young people writing to us, so deeply concerned if you're happy, when you come home, what's happened to them asking their parents, all the time, you know, are we going to get more news about Maddie, you know that yourself, and then he says, if the twins do ask you where Maddie is or if they will ask you, what will you tell them, what, what form of words will you...KMC : We don't know, we don't know but we're looking for her, that's all we can say.

GMC (speaking over) : They know errm people generally say she went missing and that we are looking for her. The fact that so many kids know about Madeleine is important to us, is actually because certainly in the States with information went out in posters it may be a child to recognize as Madeleine and they may see them through different ways, change their hair and different things like.., so that piece of information could well come from a child...KMC : And kids are amazing, I've had a 3 year old say to his mummy : "Mommy, that's Madeleine's mommy" and then I've had another little child pinpointing Amelie and saying "Mom, that's Madeleine". So the children are actually very perceptive...

SW : (interrupting) It makes some very worried as well, that's another thing, and although the campaign is really valuable in terms of getting more information, Caroline sends us an email saying that a lot of children are asking whether they're going to be abducted in the night and whether the parents are going to protect them, so in a way sometimes this is causing even more concern for children, however valuable it is, but can you see that difficulty with parents who are constantly having to ensure the children that they won't get snatched in the night ?

KMC : I think every parent knows their child and knows what their child (smiling) is able to take on board really and I think most parents find if they're honest with the children and reassuring...

GMC : (interrupting and obviously stopping KMC) : Did that, I mean that situation there is very much, it's terrible we have to think like this and clearly where we were, at the time, in an environment it was the farthest thing from our mind and it's clearly brought this home, these crimes happen, they're more commoner than we think, a lot of crimes are unreported, may be possibly even underreported, in terms of professional recording, but clearly under reported in the media, and it's terrible, but that's a real life thing, these crimes are horrific, it's a crime and there's an abductor out there and he may strike again, I'm not saying everyone should think about that, clearly if you are in a locked apartment, in a house, there are people there, the chances are very slim and this is so real..

BT : (interrupting) Can I ask you a question about the police inquiry in Portugal, one or two things, have you been asked to take part in a reconstruction and under what circumstances would you go back ?GMC : There is a dialog and that's been reported errm clearly there's a day out there and it's under discussion and no final decision has been made, errm, and I have to say that the prospect of going back with the media trying to watch a reconstruction doesn't appeal us and our emotions, for us...to consider that.. I think there's also other issues.. KMC : (speaking over, inaudible).

GMC : How much more information will that get us, one year on, you know, and we have told everything to the police.

KMC : If we believed that it would help find Madeleine, but that's the issue really

GMC : And our friends were voluntarily taking part recently in interviews in Leicestershire, they've given all the information and they had lots of opportunity and our friends stayed in Portugal for 10 days after Madeleine was taken.

SW : How much, what do you think the public is thinking when it comes to this case; I only ask because in the documentary last night you had these boxes with supportive letters and very unsupportive letters, really quite very nasty letters as well. Can you understand why people are so angry, I don't know, so angry about this and the fact that Madeleine went missing when you were on the night..

KMC : (interrupting) I mean to be honest, a lot of the nasty ones (were) about that. We do get letters like that but some of the nasty ones are almost nasty for nasty sake and I think that has been incredibly shocking because we are not like that, we don't know people who are like that; it's quite, I suppose it's quite scary, a bit of an eye opener, really  how people could be filled with so much venom and whatever we do they'll write and criticize you know.

BT : It is, it is the way everybody in the public eye is going to get that (inaudible)
.
GMC : (interrupting) The bottom line is that Madeleine is a four years old girl who's a victim, she's completely innocent and respect we are doing best to find her and to get information to help us find her and this is an international problem, it's an international inquiry, and we want people to come forward, whether or not they have done previously.

BT : Ok, just to balance things up because we have asked you some challenging questions, we have supportive emails, somebody saying "may I express my support for you both, I admire the way you cope with the publicity both good and bad like the true professionals you are". There are others who text me and say their prayers are with you on a daily basis.

G & K MC : Thank you.

SW : Good luck, thank you very much for coming and if anybody had information there's that new number to contact the police (repeat twice the number) and as Gerry was saying it may have been a year on, but somebody might know something and however small it is, call that number and tell the police about it.

[Acknowledgement Anna Guedes & Meadows for transcript]

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Re: McCann Interview Transcripts

Post by Verdi on 29.12.17 15:54

Brian Healy, Madeleine's grandfather - interview with Sky News 7th September 2007

Reporter:  What do you know about what Kate is thinking, feeling about the kind of direction this inquiry is taking.

Brian Kennedy:  Inaudible...The thing is Kate and Gerry are not involved and the stuff must have been planted there, you know the DNA is there, its just unbelievable.

Reporter:  What you think, you think that someone may have deliberately?

Brian:  Well, the perpetrator or someone else has put it there, because I know Kate and Gerry would not harm Madeleine at all.

Reporter:  And you think someone may have planted DNA to try and implicate them?

Brian:  Yes, I think so.

Reporter:  Is it possible that Kate with her medical background ,might have, wanted to help Madeleine to go to sleep that night?

Brian:  Not at all.

Reporter:  Even out of kindness, she she certainly would not have given her....

Brian:  Not even out of kindness, I think they may have used Calpol like most mothers do....(inaudible). first and foremost they wouldn't have done that.

Reporter:  What effect is it having Mr. Healy on the family generally, particularly the way things are going in Portugal?

 
Brian:  Um well, my sister in law had a collapse the other day it might have been pressure, it might have been tension, I dont know. Its affected all of us. My sister from Canada rang today, she is so upset , she has not been to bed all night.

Reporter:  How about you? cause you've not been well have you?

Brian:  Well, I think its err I'm just horrified ,that anyone could even think that my daughter would do such a thing. I know she hasn't done anything to harm Madeleine. ,Gerry the same, its just devastating to hear people would even think it.


Reporter:  What's your view of the Portuguese Police now and the way the Investigation has been conducted.

Brian:  We've been through weeks and months, we've been very supportive of the Portuguese Police. I don't know. I just don't know. I'M not that happy.

Reporter:  You say for weeks you've been supportive but you don't feel that way anymore?

Brian:  No, I am beginning to doubt. When people have tried to bad mouth the Portuguese police we have always shied away from it, but I don't care any more.

Reporter:  So, what are your views now with the Portuguese police?

Brian:  Well, I dont want to say too much. I'm not happy with them, lets put it that way.

Reporter:  Your clearly concerned about the way ....

Brian:  Yes

Reporter:  Do you feel that they will not now get the level of support they have had from the family thus far?

Brian:  Well, they've already taken eleven hours of support away by interviewing Kate, for that time why weren't they out looking for Madeleine, or doing something?. This is just a waste of time ...a farce...it would be a joke if it wasn't so disgusting.

Reporter:  Why do you think they have taken this course?

Brian:  I don't know. I just say one thing ,in Faro airport. I never saw one poster of Madeleine . They are concerned about the tourist industry, you know, they, Philly McCann and a friend of hers were bodily escorted out of the airport one time...(inaudible). They are terrified that their tourist industry is going to be hit.


Reporter:  You think that they fear that all of this will affect their tourist industry?

Brian:  I think they just want Kate and Gerry out of their country and close it all down.

Reporter:  Now Kate and Gerry were planning to return this week-end were they not?. Whats the latest on that?

Brian:  Inaudible...I don't know , we will have to wait and see.

Reporter:  What do you think will be going through Kates mind now, because she's been very supportive too, publicly at least, towards the Portuguese Police ?

Brian:  I don't know,. I think she will be bewildered and be horrified that anyone can even think that of her, you know.

Reporter:  What would you say to her if she were with you now?

Brian:  I'd just hug her to death

Reporter:  Do you want a break? are you O:K:?

Brian:  No, No...I just want to hug her to death. She is so unprotected over there...you know..

Reporter:  How do you get through it?


Brian:  Well, funny enough I sleep well of a night. I don't spend an hour without thinking about Madeleine. Sometimes, I go down dark roads, other times you know, tend to forget about her and it gets easier ...and then suddenly, it hits you and like someone kicking you in the stomach...you know...

Reporter:  Do you believe that Madeleine will be found?

Brian:  Well, according to Gerry he's seen stuff that we haven't seen and there's nothing as yet to suggest that she's dead. We have got to believe that she's alive.

Reporter:  What is it like for you, as a father of this woman, to hear accusations about that she may have played a part in the Madeleine disappearance?

Brian:  It's unbelievable, disgusting and obscene. My daughters not like that , I know her.

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Re: McCann Interview Transcripts

Post by Verdi on 20.01.18 21:47

McCann Interview - Expresso 6th September 2008

Q – What are you presently doing to find Madeleine?
Gerry – We have had private investigators working with us for several months. Now that the case has been archived, it’s easier because we accessed the process. We carried out new interviews with those that had already testified. And we interviewed others who approached us and had never spoken before.
Kate – As we didn’t know what the PJ had done, we repeated everything that seemed important to us.

Q – Do the new witnesses offer clues about the disappearance?
Gerry – Some report sightings, but it’s not likely that they lead to our daughter. We are more interested in persons that offer credible information that can be verified through photographs or in another form; persons who know who may be involved.

Q – What impression did you get from the process? Were you shocked over its contents?
Gerry – We were investigated into the smallest detail. There are entire volumes about us. We can jump those. It must be disquieting information that will not help us to find Madeleine.

Q – Don’t you think that everything that was possible to do, was done? The investigation reached Poland, the Netherlands, Spain, Morocco…
Gerry – Morocco is a good example of what went wrong. A sighting was reported and it was said that there were cameras at the petrol station. When the inspectors went there, they concluded that there were none. The truth is that there were none in the pump area, but in the shop. And when the PJ returned, the tape had been recorded over.
Kate – It’s difficult to describe how it feels to have our daughter taken away… We want to see action everywhere. We wanted spotlights, we wanted helicopters, we wanted everyone on the street, searching.

Q – If Madeleine had disappeared in England, would things have been different?
Gerry – If it had happened in a British city, I have no doubts. But I don’t know if it would have been different if we had been in a small village in Scotland. Clearly, the English police are more experienced in abductions, they are more alert.

Q – If you have an important clue concerning Madeleine’s whereabouts, will you transmit it to the Portuguese police?
Gerry – If something needs to be done in Portugal, we’ll have to. We cannot go around breaking doors down or arresting people. But only when we feel that we cannot advance any further on our own.

Q – Do you trust the Portuguese authorities, after having been considered suspects?
Gerry – We wouldn’t mind if we had been investigated at the beginning, if they thought that could help. But months later, when the evidence had been lost? It’s that once the suspicion is installed, we can never prove our innocence again.

Q – Didn’t you find it strange that the dogs found traces of blood in your room and in your rental car…
Gerry – There was no blood found! The indicia are worthless if they are not corroborated by forensic information. And they were not.

Q – 40 apartments were investigated and the dogs only marked yours. Ten cars and they only reacted to yours.
Gerry – These dogs’ frailty was proved by a study that was carried out in the USA, in the case of a man that had been accused of murder. They had ten rooms, and in each room four boxes were placed, containing vegetables, bones, trash. Some contained human remains. They stayed there for ten hours. Eight hours after the boxes were removed, the dogs came in. And the dogs failed two thirds of the attempts. Imagine the reliability when these dogs test an apartment three months after the disappearance of a child.

Q – Were you surprised when you were made arguidos?
Kate – It was not surprising after weeks with the media saying that we were suspects. And there we have to ask why the information that reached the media was disfigured. Why do the newspapers say that blood was found in the apartment when the police report does not confirm it? Why was it said that the DNA that was found in the car was a 100% match with Madeleine’s?

Gerry – In a way, we would like to have been accused so we could defend ourselves openly. Now, reading the process, there is no evidence that justifies the suspicion, apart from the dogs’ action. There was never a sustained explanation. And the questioning: ‘What happened to Madeleine? How did you get rid of her? Who helped you? Where did you put her? All fantasy! If they had found DNA – so what? And if Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment – why would that be our fault?

Q – Do you investigate information that point towards Madeleine’s death?
Kate – We want to find her alive, but if she is dead we want to know.

Q – Do you still believe that she’s alive?
Kate – There are great possibilities that she is alive, isn’t it? There is nothing in the process to indicate that something bad has happened to her…

Q – But there are no indicia that she has been abducted, either.
Gerry – We firmly believe that she was abducted by a man, minutes after I went to see her in the bedroom. There are two independent witnesses that saw a child of around four years of age being carried that evening. Our friend Jane Tanner and also the Smith family.

Q – The PJ discredits Jane Tanner’s testimony. They say that when she saw said man with the child, you [Gerry] were chatting nearby and it was impossible that you hadn’t seen him as well…

Gerry – I didn’t see her because my back was turned to the location where she passed. I was talking to a friend. And there is also the couple with children that saw a man carrying a child with a pyjama that was similar to Madeleine’s, blond hair, the same age.

Q – Later on, that family stated that the man they saw was Gerry…
Gerry – At that time I was at the restaurant. The fact that we became suspects has probably influenced the Smiths’ testimony.

Q – Was it a coincidence that you were made arguidos on one day and returned home the next day?
Gerry – They questioned us on that day because the PJ knew about our return.

Q – Were you afraid of being arrested?
Kate – Obviously. At a certain point we didn’t know very well what could happen.
Gerry – From the information in the newspapers, of course we were afraid. It was scary.

Q – Being in England, you would not be extradited anymore.
Gerry – We asked the inspector that was in charge of the case of he had any objection: the answer was no. It’s obvious that we were afraid that people might think we were escaping, but it was better not to be in Portugal at that point in time.

Q – Why?
Kate – Because of the hostile environment. We couldn’t even leave the house.

Q – Why did Kate refuse to answer questions during your interrogation, that Gerry accepted to clarify the next day?
Kate – I was advised by my Portuguese lawyer not to reply.

Gerry – I received the same advice but decided to disobey. My plan was to remain silent, but the first question was: are you involved in your daughter’s disappearance? It was nonsense and I decided to answer. From there onwards, I replied to all of them.

Q – Why didn’t you authorize the police to see the messages that you sent and received on your mobile phone on the eve of Maddie’s disappearance.
Gerry – Nobody asked to see my messages. On the day before and on the day of the disappearance I did not receive or send 16 messages. I could hardly write a text message. I received three or four phone calls and two were from work. After the disappearance I received hundreds. And when the police asked me for the registry, I told them to ask the service provider. My phone only registers the last ten.

Q – The chief inspector in the case, Tavares de Almeida, writes a report where he says that your friends lied to save you, that Maddie died in the living room, and that you hid the body.
Gerry – What can we say? You will have to ask the police chiefs why they wrote that, why they saw us as suspects.

Q – The majority of crimes where the victims are children are committed by the parents.
Gerry – Not in the case of abducted children. And this is a case of an abducted child. It’s an exceptional case.

Q – When he archived the case, the prosecutor said that the investigation can be reopened if a new clue appears. Do you think that is possible?
Kate – Of course! It could happen at any moment. All that it takes is for one person to make the phone call that we wait for so much. We know that she was abducted in Portugal and we vehemently believe that someone knows or suspects something.

“Mr Amaral’s behaviour is a disgrace”

Q – Former inspector Gonçalo Amaral remains convinced of your involvement in Madeleine’s disappearance. Did you read ‘The Truth of the Lie’, the book that he wrote?
Kate and Gerry – No.
Kate – Why would I?
Gerry – I won’t learn anything from reading it.

Q – It was a success in Portugal.
Gerry – Was it? How many copies did it sell?

Q – Approximately 200 thousand. Next week, it is edited in Spain.
Gerry – That is what can be called illicit enrichment.

Q – Your English lawyers already have a translated copy and they are analyzing it. Do you intend to sue Gonçalo Amaral?
Gerry – At this moment we are focused on what we can do to find Madeleine and not in suing anyone.
Kate – All that I am going to say about this – because I’m not going to waste any time on Mr Amaral – is that as a professional and as a person his behaviour has been a disgrace.

Q – Aren’t you curious to know what the book says?
Kate – What for? It must be nothing but a load of rubbish. It is so secondary… It certainly won’t help to find our daughter. My consolation is that on the cover he calls her Maddie, the name that the media have invented. We never called her anything like that.

Q – But you do know the theory that Gonçalo Amaral defends: Madeleine accidentally died in the Ocean Club apartment and you concealed the body.
Gerry – It really is a waste of time. And we need all the time that we can get to analyze the investigation’s documents, which contain a lot of information that we didn’t know about.
Kate – You just have to cross, loosely, his theory with the process in order to understand that the facts that he reports are not correct.

Q – There is a theory that defends that the coordinator was removed from the investigation due to British political pressure.
Gerry – Who dismissed him?

Q – The PJ’s national director.
Gerry – Then you have to ask him if he was pressured. Or if Gordon Brown discussed the case with him. He surely didn’t.

Q – He also resigned. And largely due to this process.
Gerry – That was not what I was told. Apparently he had a vision of the police itself that was different from the one held by the Justice Minister.

Q – In a final analysis, they both left the PJ because the investigation failed.
Gerry – That’s not our fault. I do not criticize the authorities over not trying to find Madeleine. It doesn’t matter anymore. Now all that matters is that we do everything to try to find her, through our own methods.

Q – Did you ever get to know Gonçalo Amaral?
Kate – The question is the other way around: did he get to know us?

There are photographs of her all over the house.

Q – How has your life changed with the disappearance of Madeleine?
Gerry – Independently of what happens, it will never be the same again. If you talk to the parents of other abducted children, they also mention this parallel life which we entered. Sean and Amelie, being so young, force us to introduce a certain normalcy in our lives, to make it normal for them. And it’s them who, for moments, make it normal for us. But it will never be normal for us. They are aged three and a half, and they are very, very happy.

Q – Did you explain to the twins what happened to their sister?
Kate – They perceive Madeleine’s absence perfectly. I have no doubt whatsoever. But they don’t know the details. They know that she disappeared and that we’re looking for her.
Gerry – We were advised concerning what we should tell them, how and when. Larger explanations are kept for later. We realize that they miss their older sister. They know that her not being with us is not a good thing, and they hope that she returns.

Q – How do you keep Madeleine present in your lives?
Kate – There are photographs of her all over the house. And we speak about her with the twins every day – it’s an important part of their lives. Sean and Amelie talk about her and still include her in their playing… If they receive sweets, they say “Let’s keep one for Madeleine”. Or “When she comes home I’ll give her this or that”. It’s endearing and it makes our days less difficult.

Q – Did you fear that you might lose custody over Sean and Amelie because your behaviour was considered to be negligent?
Gerry – We were not negligent, we did what any reasonable parent would do. But we deeply lament what happened, because in our action, someone saw an opportunity to take Madeleine. I’m an optimist person. I never thought that something like this could happen.

Q – Did you change the manner in which you deal with Sean and Amelie?
Gerry – We are more protective and less trusting. We never left our children alone again and many families will never do so again because of us.
Kate – Now we think about everything that can happen, about predators, abductors. We don’t even let go of them in the shopping centre.

Q – How much have you spent on the private investigation so far?
Gerry – Approximately one million pounds, over the past ten months, paid with money from the FindMadeleine fund. A substantial sum was also spent on our defence, but two benefactors have covered that expense, which means that the fund was solely used in the search for our daughter.

Q – Do you maintain the offer of 2.5 million pounds to whoever finds Madeleine?
Gerry – We do not control that reward, but everything leads me to believe that it still stands. And that there will also be money available for whoever supplies credible information.
Kate – It’s a lot of money, but we cannot set limits, a child is priceless. We’ll pay whatever is necessary.

Q – Is there still money left in the fund?
Gerry – There is still some money left. Recently, British newspapers (‘Express newspapers’) paid us a compensation of 550 thousand pounds, which fed the fund. That had an important impact. And there are still donations, people who send money directly.

Q – But less than in the beginning, before you were made arguidos.
Gerry – Of course! Those who were in doubt stopped contributing. Many write to us asking for forgiveness because they believed in our guilt. We know that we have to make an effort for people to know that there is no evidence that Madeleine is dead and that we were not involved in the disappearance.

Other issues

Dogs – “We read everything that we found about these dogs that detect cadavers. It was due to them that we became suspects”

Clues – “The sightings continue. Since May we received one thousand phone calls and an equal number of emails, some containing relevant data”

Media exposure – “Appearing in the media was never good. We did it to publicize Madeleine’s face and to find her. We failed”

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Re: McCann Interview Transcripts

Post by Verdi on 23.06.18 12:49

Searching for Madeleine 

Martin Brunt Sky News documentary 3rd May 2017

Transcript by Anne Guedes with thanks [courtesy of pamalam at gerrymccannsblog.co.uk]

Part 1..

Martin Brunt : It's a case that has shocked, puzzled and divided the public like no other.

Kate MC : Please, please, do not scare her...

MB : For 10 years I've been following an investigation which many argue was flawed from the start.

Alan Johnson (ex-HO Secretary) : MMC deserved a proper police investigation.

MB : We talked to senior police officers who have been closely involved.

Jim Gamble (ex-director of ex-CEOP) : The only side I'm on is the side of MMC.

Pedro do Carmo (directeur-adjoint de la PJ) : We need to know, not only because the family needs to know but very much because we want to know what was done the right way and what should have been done in a different way.

MB : 10 years on we can now reveal details of a secret government report. It lays bare 1'24 the failures of all the agencies involved in the search for Madeleine.

Colin Sutton (ex-DCI de Scotland Yard) : I'm not certain that it was investigated properly at the beginning and I still don't think it's been investigated properly now.

MB : It's 10 years since MMC vanished and I'm still fascinated by the mystery of what happened to her. I've come to Vienna to meet a man who once convinced Madeleine's parents he could find her.

(Exchange of salutes) Danny Krügel also wants to hand over to me something of Madeleine's he needs to give back to her parents. Mr Krügel is a former South African police officer. This is the bizarre gadget he invented. He claimed it linked DNA science with satellite technology. Simply insert a hair sample and it can locate a missing person, alive or dead.

Dany Krügel : I've met Gerry and Kate in Praia da Luz, to assist them. I said I developed this technology, it's early stages yet but I would do my best.

MB : It was 2 months after Madeleine had disappeared and the Mcs were desperate. This is what Kate wrote later in her book : Desperation does strange things to people. We are scientists and we don't believe in hocus pocus or crackpot inventions. Since the investigation appeared to have ground to a halt it was worth trying anything. What else did we have ?

DK : Once Gerry came back with this specific brush and as you can see there's quite a lot of hair samples on the brush. We were looking for Madeleine, I had the first signal at 9 meters from the beach (rather inaudible), I knew she was there, so I did my findings I showed the area to the police and I gave them the map saying this was the area of priority to search.

MB : Police never searched the area Mr Krügel identified. (note 1)

(addressing DK) This is, you've read this, it is Kate's book, she says the police discussed it with the professor who described your machine as pseudo science fiction, this was the professor in Belfast. Logic, it seems, often flies off the window when you're under pressure and desperate for a result, any result.

DK : I know my findings, I know Madeleine was there, must probably still be, I've got nothing to prove for anybody, I've had a lot of successes, I've found a lot of bodies.

MB (reading) : There's one page on the Internet that says Danny Krügel is a visionary real fraudster. Which is it ?

DK : Martin, I think there's one thing in life : the truth will stay and the lie will die.

MB : After 10 years the brush was on its way back to Madeleine's parents. Danny Krügel's involvement in the investigation illustrates some of the early themes of the MMC's story. The oddballs which attached themselves to the case, the desperation of the MCs to cling to anything that might help, the couple's disillusion with the police and the continuing fascination with the fate of a little girl who appears to have vanished into thin air.

MMC was nearly 4 when she disappeared from the family's holiday apartment in Portugal in 2007. Her parents, Kate and Gerry MC, both doctors, had taken her and her younger twin siblings for a week stay. Praia da Luz is a large village on the Algarve coast, an hour's drive from the airport at Faro. It's a quiet resort, popular mainly with British, German and Dutch holiday makers. The MCs had rented apartment number 5A, a ground floor corner property in the Ocean Club complex. The family travelled with 7 friends and their friend's young children.

We asked the former Scotland Yard cold-case expert to go over the investigation with us. Colin Sutton brought two notorious criminals to justice, serial killer Levi Bellfield and Delroy Grant, the so-called night stalker rapist who attacked over a hundred elderly women in their homes.

Let's look at the last few hours, this is the last known photograph of Madeleine, taken around 2:30 in the afternoon, she's sitting by the pool in the holiday complex. Later, at around 8:30, her parents joined their friends for dinner euh... within the complex, at the Tapas restaurant. They'd left the children asleep in one room in the apartment, at the top of this map, Gerald MC once said early on it was akin to sitting in your garden at home on a summer's evening, having dinner with the children asleep upstairs, it wasn't quite like that, was it ?

CS : It's about 80 yards as the crow flies to the Tapas restaurant, there are shrubs there alongside the alley, there's no real way of monitoring that apartment from the Tapas Bar.

MB : According to the MCs and their friends, every half an hour or so somebody from the group was going to check on their own children. Now the MC children were all in the same room which was the front bedroom of the apartment.

CS : The patio doors were left shut but unlocked and then the journey through here to the children's room and Madeleine was in this bed here, the twins and the cots in the middle, the important thing there is that when Kate came up to look, this door which had been left just ajar was wide open.

MB : Yes it was 10 pm when Kate made that final journey back to the apartment, it was her turn to go check on the kids, crucially, and there was no sign of Madeleine.

If you look at the crime scene photo here, which was taken shortly after on that night, you see Madeleine's bed here, you see her pink cuddle car sort of security toy, there you see the cots where the twins had been and then you see the window and the window is important as well because Kate MC said that when she went in, she found the window, which had been shut, was open and a shutter had been raised.

Sky News info's : Just hearing the search is underway for 3 year old British girl who has gone missing in the Algarve area, Portugal.

Journalist Dan Mason : She's named Madeleine or Maddie, though a few police and police dogs have been seen, there doesn't seem to be much activity at the moment.

MB : Let's look at the initial police response in that golden hour. What exactly does the "golden hour" mean ?

CS : It's really the initial opportunities to find intelligence information, look through systems and see what action can be taken to resolve whatever it is as quickly as possible. I mean that things that are done or are not done often can have a very large impact on the way the investigation of the incident proceeds thereafter.

MB : Particularly the collection of forensic evidence ?

CS : I can well understand that the initial officers that responded to it will see as their priority to look for her, to try and find her, and they won't be thinking of forensic evidence, they won't be thinking major crime scene, they'll be thinking "let's find this little girl !".

MB : Local police, the GNR, did respond on the night and by the next morning there was a great deal of police activity.

CS : The GNR, the gendarmerie, they're kind of soldiers effectively who police through parts of Portugal, they are geared up to search for a missing child, but they're not geared up for a high-tech 21st century major crime investigation. It's a question of time, it's a question of how long that goes on and how long somebody has got grip of the situation you know, the supervisor leader who says "do you know what, you know, we've been searching now for 2 hours, we need to go back and make sure we preserve that scene because we could be looking at something much more long-term and much more serious here. We mustn't apply our standards in the UK too strictly to what goes on in other places, they have a different system, they have different police forces doing with different aspects of the law.

PdC : At least during the first moments after the disappearance of Madeleine MC, it was not really a criminal investigation, it was more a rescue operation and it was very much in everyone's mind the family but also the police officers, neighbours, anyone that attended the place and was looking for a child that was missing.

Fernando Pinto Monteiro (then Portuguese Attorney General) :
When the investigation began, hours had already passed, I don't know if seven, eight, and this is enough for evidence to vanish. If she was abducted in those 6/7 hours, they had time to take her to Spain or put her in a plane or in a boat.

MB : It's accepted, not enough was done to collect vital evidence. That didn't happen for weeks. In fact the apartment was let out to others families twice before it was sealed off for a full forensic examination. (note 2)

In the first investigation, the Portuguese took the lead. Back home, Leicestershire Police coordinated the response, but numerous UK agencies became involved once the search for Madeleine escalated into a criminal investigation.

JG : From Leicester Constabulary to CEOP through all the different Police Officers Associations right up to the Home Office and the Home Secretary himself, everyone was wanting to do something and to help. I think that in the chaos that followed, we lost some ground.

MB : The early confusion was detailed in a secret report ordered by the Home Office and we've got a copy of it. It reveals an astonishing catalogue of mistakes, accusations and growing distrust. What do you make of it ?

CS : I think we say in there that the various agencies and parties that were involved in the early parts of the investigation had different priorities and they sometimes competed against each other and I think we will see that they hampered the investigation from the very start.

Note 01

This is inaccurate, Prof Mark Harrison insisted on the fact that all sources had to be examined, though there's no doubt about his personal opinion. Therefore the area identified thanks to the hair machine was duly searched by the (British) dogs and the police (see the PJFiles and the Harrison reports in particular).
 
Note 02

This is not true. One PO of the scientific police started to work on the crime scene at around 1.30 am, after people were asked to leave the flat. All that could be collected in night time was collected until 4:30am. The flat was then sealed off and two GNR guards remained at the scene. More Scientific Police technicians came on the following morning. The flat was returned to the owner on June 11. From that date to the visit of the British dogs, the flat was occupied by 4 families. The dogs’ alerts, which occurred only in that flat, originated other tests.

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Re: McCann Interview Transcripts

Post by Verdi on 23.06.18 12:50

Continued Part 2..

MB : It's been 10 years since Madeleine MC vanished without a trace from...

(reporting) : In the last few minutes we've seen Mr and Mrs McCann been driven away by what we think were police officers.

The first Portuguese investigation got off to a poor start and it never recovered. Early on tensions grew between the MCs and those who were trying to help them.

Olegário Sousa (Spokesperson for PJ) : Things are not equal in legal system in the UK and in Portugal. It's not my fault, it's not your fault.

MB : I've got hold of a secret government report that details the problems that arose from the beginning, not just in the Portuguese investigation, but in the reaction of the British authorities too. The then home secretary Alan Johnson commissioned the scoping report in 2009. It led to the involvement of Scotland Yard.  (note 3)


AJ : With due respect to the Leicestershire Police the way the Constabulary is working you know...  there's the Metropolitan which is huge and has huge resources and huge expertise and there is the rest. So Gerry and Kate McCann felt that Leicestershire just didn't have the wherewithal to conduct this problem properly.


MB : The Home Secretary turned to child protection specialist Jim Gamble to advise him. Was it worth getting Scotland Yard involved ?


JG : I suggested that we carried out a scoping review to identify whether there were any investigative opportunities that had been missed and deliver a better investigation. Officials euh.. were set against it I think that's fair to say..


AJ : So much of this had been haphazard in the way it had been investigated, particularly those early Portuguese investigations, that actually MMC deserved a proper police investigation and she hadn't had one up to that stage.


MB : The confidential report said that relationships were strained by cultural procedural and legal differences and the UK was accused of acting like a colonial power.


JG : That was about resentment..


MB : About the attitude of British ...


JG :  The kind of, you know, hierarchical approach, perhaps a condescending approach.


MB : It was in that context that the rest of the initial Portuguese investigation played out. In the first week police chased false leads and mistaken sightings, the MCs held numerous impromptu news conferences.


GMC (reading) : Words cannot describe....


MB : The search area expanded around the village and beyond. On the 11th day, police formally questioned Robert Murat, apparently on little more than a journalist's warning about his odd behaviour. He was later cleared of all suspicion. They also interrogated his girlfriend, Michaela W and a business associate named Sergei M. Robert M was helping the police as a translator. He's an expat, he was living at the time 150 yards up the street.


CS : Historically, people who have kind of inserted themselves into the centre stage of the investigation have been viewed with some suspicion by the police and rightly so, in some cases...


MB : The next morning, when he was released, he wouldn't appear on camera, but he told me that he was innocent, he said that he felt he was been made a scapegoat and his real fear was that this was going to ruin his life and of course he was eventually let go with no further action.


CS : Yes.


MB : As the search of Madeleine went on, her parents put their faith in God, the village church became an almost daily refuge. In Fatima,  Portugal's holiest site, they prayed at the shrine of the Virgin Mary. In Rome they met the Pope, he blessed a photograph of Madeleine. Thousands of supporters tied yellow ribbons to await Madeleine's safe return. While all this was happening, Portuguese detectives were making a crucial error, according to the author (Jim Gamble) of the secret Home Office report : I was shocked first and foremost when the MCs went immediately under the Portuguese system considered suspects. That was the first critical mistake, it was unfair and for the investigators unfair with regard to the integrity of the forensic evidence that would be captured and unfair to the MCs themselves. Clear the ground beneath your feet first and foremost.

MB : According to the Home Office report, statistics suggest that in the majority of cases where very young children go missing and are later found dead, the family is involved. In addition to not questioning the MCs as suspects, the report says the UK team felt more could have been done by the Portuguese police to record quicker the details of all employees and there was a lack of confidence that enough work had been done around potential witnesses and suspects.

CS : One of the big holes in what went on in the investigation.. In these sorts of cases what you need to do, what you want to do is to snapshot the area. Leicestershire police, had it be the decision at the time, would have had reasonably easy access to all the British people that were either working at the complex or were there on holiday.

MB : Not looking properly at staff who were working at the complex, set all the people you need to talk to..


CS : Particularly where you've got people who haven't got roots in the area, don't live nearby, but are there temporarily.


MB : It's easy to criticize the original Portuguese investigation, but is it entirely fair ?

JG : We looked at how could you compare and contrast what might happen on a sleepy night in Bournemouth if a Portuguese couple had lost a child, so we tried to compare it more like with like, but you know this isn't about being territorial but the Portuguese system didn't come up to the standards that we would expect. It simply didn't.


MB : Such criticism of the original Portuguese investigators by their British counterparts still irritates today.


PdC : Everyone that was involved in the investigation did their best and was very much committed in doing their job the best way they could.


FPM : Everyone did all they could in the investigation. Let me tell you, in the world there are millions and millions of cases that are never solved, it is difficult to solve the abduction of a child or a disappearance.


MB : Almost 2 months after Madeleine disappeared, a news report revealed a pact of silence. It said police were suspicious of the parents' involvement. The article in the weekly paper SOL said the MCs and their friends were thought to be hiding something. This was the first public indication of where the early investigation was focused. Portuguese police asked the British authorities to bring over two specialist dogs, (note 4) one who detects dead bodies, the other traces of blood. The dogs reacted in the MC apartment and in the family's rental car which wasn't hired until 3 weeks after Madeleine disappeared. Forensic swabs were taken and sent to the UK for analysis (note 5). The leaked results or at least the Portuguese interpretation of them caused a sensation.


(reportage) : In the car the scientists have also found another, a second full match and police say that is the most damning evidence that's been returned by these forensic test results.


The dogs the forensic tests that followed, that was the turning point, wasn't it ?


CS : It was the turning point for the arrests, yes, certainly, but we need to remember that the dogs are there to indicate areas where proper forensic tests, evidential tests should be made. Dogs certainly in the UK are not used as evidential things, it's just indication to focus the search for forensic materials.


MB : 4 months after their daughter vanished, her parents were questioned and then released. Their formal status, arguido, meant they were suspects.


Lawyer (sept 2007) : No charges have been brought against them...

MB : A devastating turn of events which did nothing for their poor relationship with the police. It simply got worse. According to the secret Home Office report, the MCs complained of a lack of clarity and communication with the Portuguese police, and they said they were left for hours waiting to speak to someone. They described the situation as inhumane, it led to a long-lasting distinct lack of trust between all parties, the MCs, the Portuguese police and the UK authorities. This criticism is that the Portuguese reject.


PdC : It was not a contest, it was not a show, so we weren't really looking for approval from anyone, we just wanted to do our job the best way we could.


MB : KMC describes in her book her struggle with the disappearance of her daughter and everything that followed.



KMC reading :  On the whole Gerry and I have managed to dig deep and remain focused, although the temptation to shout the truth from the rooftops has always been there. (There have been many times when I have struggled to keep myself together and to understand how such injustices have been allowed to go unchallenged over and over again). I have had to keep saying to myself: I know the truth, we know the truth and God knows the truth. And one day, the truth will out. (note :  between brackets is the part of the original text cut in “Searching of Madeleine”).
 
Note 03Martin Brunt mentioned already that “secret” report in 2014. In 2009 Jim Gamble suggested it to the then HO Secretary Alan Johnson. AJ was substituted by Theresa May in May 2010. The report was then ready, but the issue was no priority for TM, hence there was no reason to solicitate Scotland Yard’s help.
 .
Note 04This is not true. The idea of bringing the British dogs was Prof. Mark Harrison’s, as his July 23 report reveals. The PJ was then hardly aware of HRD (Human Remains Detection) dogs. Following the NPIA criminal profiler Lee Rainbow, the head of the PJ asked the assistance of the National Policing Improvement Agency expert Mark Harrison MBE. 
  
Note 05It is not less interesting to mention where the dogs didn’t alert. Sent in the two flats occupied by the MCs (one before and the other after the disappearance) and the three flats occupied by the MCs' friends/acquaintances, the dogs only alerted in the flat where MMC had been seen for the last time. ;

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Re: McCann Interview Transcripts

Post by Verdi on 23.06.18 12:52

Continued Part 3..

MB : I'm Martin Brunt and for the past 10 years I've been reporting on the disappearance of MMC from her holiday apartment in Portugal. Her parents, Kate and Gerry, were questioned by detectives who suspected their daughter had died accidentally and they had disposed of her body. 48 hours later the MCs left Portugal and flex home to Leicestershire with their two younger children.

GMC (reading at arrival in Midlands airport) : (inaudible) return to the UK without Madeleine, it doesn't mean we're giving up her search for her.


MB : They were still suspects in that first Portuguese investigation, a position that would remain for another ten months. In July 2008, the investigation was closed. The MCs were told there would be no further action taken against them. (note 6)


FPM : It took me a long time to close the case until finally I convinced myself that at the time there was no evidence at all.


PdC : In 2008, when it was closed, at this time that didn't mean that the PJ wasn't going to keep looking got information, keep looking for some kind of clue.


MB
: According to the secret Home Office report, the MCs felt the original Portuguese investigation was inadequate and so they had to take matters into their own hands. The MCs sued the Leicestershire police because they felt they weren't telling them what was being done to find their daughter. The force eventually agreed to give them some information. The MCs had already been using a number of different private investigators. The confidential Home Office report reveals that the private investigators working for the MCs gathered a large amount of information which does not appear to have been shared fully with Portuguese or UK police. The report recommends the MCs are encouraged and persuaded to share this information. The document adds that it's "unusual" for private investigators and police to work together but, because of the "unique nature" of the case, it would be good to do so. 

The MC hired their investigators because for the best part of 3 years there was no official inquiry, but that changed in 2011, when Portuguese police decided to review their first investigation. (note 7)


PdC : We thought that after all those years it was time to just go back and look at it and to see if we had missed something.


MB : The Home Office report commissioned by Alan Johnson recommended that Scotland Yard get involved and that's what happened. First the Metropolitan Police reviewed the case and then launched their own investigation, Operation Grange, in 2013. (note 8)

AJ : However it was related to the Portuguese, you know, joint operation or whatever it be, SY was now putting an awful lot of resource and expertise into this.


Mark Rowley  : This case is unusual, it’s not in Scotland Yard’s remit to investigate crimes across the world normally. In this case, in 2011, the Portuguese and British prime ministers were discussing the case and agreed that Scotland Yard would help.


MB : Some detectives greeted it as a challenge, others considered it a poison chalice.
(talking to CS) Colin, in 2010, your name was being talked about to head up the Scotland Yard investigation. What happened ?


CS : I did receive a call from a very senior Metropolitan police officer who knew me and said that it wouldn't be a good idea for me to head this investigation on the basis that I wouldn't be happy conducting an investigation where I was told where I could go and where I couldn't go, and things I could investigate and things I couldn't.


MB : What do you think your caller was getting at ?


CS : The Scotland Yard investigation was going to be very narrowly focused and that focus would be away from any suspicion of wrongdoing on the part of the MC and their Tapas friends.


MB : Now you're not saying that you were aware of any evidence against them and they had been ruled out by the Portuguese investigation, but why would it have been important for you to have included formally interviewing the MCs and their friends.


CS : If you are conducting a reinvestigation, it starts at the very beginning, you get all the accounts, all the evidence, all the initial statements and go through them and make sure they stack up and they compare.


MB : Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood led a Scotland Yard team of 29. They examined 40 thousand documents and identified 600 individuals of some interest. The new investigation came after a personal appeal by the MCs to the then Prime Minister, David Cameron. (note 9)


DC (July 2013) : They say that there is new evidence, new leads to follow new things to be done, it was a case that did shock and still shocks the nation.


MB : Scotland Yard began its investigation in July 2013. 3 months later detectives used the BBC's Crimewatch show to announce they had made a breakthrough. At the top of the program DCI Andy Redwood explained he was going right back to the start.


AR : We analyse and reassess everything, excepting nothing. (note 10)


MB : But we have established that he didn't do that. We found Scotland Yard's original remit statement, it sets out its purpose like this : this will entail a review of the whole of the investigations which have been conducted into the circumstances of Madeleine MC disappearance. So far neutral language, but then it goes on to say it is to examine the case and seek to determine as if the abduction occurred in the UK. It appears that right from the start the British investigators had the same narrow focus that concerned Colin Sutton. They had accepted Madeleine was abducted and so her parents were never questioned formally.

MR : The parents' involvement, that was over the time by the recent investigation by the Portuguese that all the material we're happy that's completely dealt with, she wasn't old enough to make a decision, to set off and start her own life. However she left that apartment, she has been abducted
(note 11)

MB : Unlike Scotland Yard, the Portuguese police believe there could be other explanations.

(to PdC) Do you accept that she was abducted ?


PdC : We don't know what happened and we have to be prepared to deal with different scenarios.


MB : A revelation made in BBC's Crimewatch program was about this picture (sketch de Tannerman). For a long time this artist's impression was thought to be vital evidence. The man was seen by one of the MC friends, Jane Tanner, carrying a child at 9:25 pm, 45 minutes before Madeleine was discovered missing. She didn't think anything of it at the time, but later believed she could have witnessed Madeleine's abduction. But Andy Redwood appeared to rule out the sighting all together.


AR : A night creche was operating from the main OC reception and 8 families had left 11 children in there and one particular family we spoke to they themselves believed that they could be the Tanner sighting. We're almost certain now that this sighting is not the abductor.


MB : So if our mystery man was picking his child up here at the night creche and Jane Tanner sees him walking across the top of this T junction going in that direction, that must mean that he's had to take a long route all the way round here and, if he's going in this direction, why didn't he just simply walk through one of the paths from there.


CS : We saw DCI Redwood there say "I'm almost certain that this man from the creche is the man in the sighting", I'm not convinced.


MB : Confusingly, despite being ruled out by the police, the drawing is still prominent on the official MC website and is the subject of an appeal for information. Scotland Yard focus then settled on a different suspect and 2 artists' impressions of a man seen carrying a child toward the beach at around 10:00 pm. The Scotland Yard investigation looked broadly at 2 theories, 1) a planned abduction. Witnesses told the police they'd seen a number of men acting suspiciously in the days before. Some of the men claimed to be charity collectors.

Authors Anthony Summers and Robin Swan researched the case for their book and highlighted the mystery charity collectors.


AS : A man or two men asked if they could have a contribution to an orphanage that they said was in a village nearby called Espiche. I've been to Espiche and it turns out that there is no orphanage there.


MB : A second SY theory was a burglary gone wrong, the idea that Madeleine had woken up and disturbed a thief who, instead of fleeing, had attacked her and carried her off. To the public it may sound unlikely, it certainly did to the Portuguese police, but not to their British colleagues.


AR :  In my experience, if you try to apply the rational logic of a normal person sat in their front room to what criminals do under pressure, you tend to make mistakes, so it was a sensible hypothesis, it’s still not entirely ruled out,


MB : But my sources in Portugal told me the burglary gone wrong theory pursued by SY was never considered seriously by Portuguese detectives. Portuguese and Scotland Yard had different suspects and we tracked down one of them.
 
Note 06It would be very interesting to know who summed up the filing order so ambiguously (actually, as the criminal investigation was closed, the status of the 3 arguidos (formal suspects) were lifted ipso facto, the filing order being by no way a certificate of innocence) as the High Court stated. The MC lawyer, Dr Rogerio Alves ? Doubtful, but he didn’t refute, at least publicly, the fake news of the MCs having been “cleared" proclaimed in a press release organised by Clarence Mitchell, the MC spin doctor. Whoever reads that filing order sees that the MCs clearly lost the chance of proving their innocence when their friends refused to collaborate in the reconstitution requested by the prosecutor in order to clear dark areas in the group’s statements.   
 .
Note 07The MCs hired their first private detectives (the Spanish Metodo 3) in September 2007, following their being made informal suspects (arguidos) and although the criminal investigation was on and would last over 10 more months.
  
Note 08The MCs sent an open letter, published in The Sun on May 11, 2011, to David Cameron, then Prime Minister, to remind him his pledge to think of MMC and ask for a review of the PJ Files. David Cameron was pressured by Rebekah Brooks who threatened to criticise daily Theresa May on the first page. So he yielded. And that’s how Scotland Yard was asked to make a review of the case, the funding coming from the Home Office.
  
Note 09The review of the case (not the investigation) occurred after the MCs sent an open letter to DC (see note 8).
  
Note 10Then DCI Redwood was lying here, but what for ? To save SY’s reputation or to cheat the public ?
  
Note 11After claiming SY was plainly satisfied with the Portuguese investigation on the topic of the MCs’ exoneration, MR appears to be not as happy as that and needing to use another argument, an age one, as if some 3 years old hadn't been proven capable to make decisions.
  
Part 04
MB : Ten years on the police seems no nearer to solving the mystery of Madeleine's disappearance. I've been looking at what's gone wrong. A key source of evidence in any modern crime investigation is mobile phone data. In this case, according to the secret Home Office report, there was lots of it, but it was badly handled by Portuguese investigators. The report says "a vast amount of cell site data has been gathered.. There is no evidence to indicate that the data has been fully investigated or analysed.. The Portuguese should be encouraged to accept UK help".
(to Colin Sutton) How vital to the original police investigation would that have been a more thorough analysis of the mobile phone data ?`
CS : So it could have been very helpful indeed. You know mobile phone traffic analysis is vital to many, many investigations these days. There are 3 reasons for that, you know, if you get the opportunist who forgets to switch the phone off and so you have the data which shows that the criminal was present at the time or whatever. Secondly you've got the criminal who does understand and know about mobile phone data, he simply forgets to turn it off. And thirdly even if they do turn if off, sometimes that itself can be evidential, because if you've got somebody who's using their phone all day every day, not just for calls but for texts as well and suddenly there's a gap when they switched the phone off, the only time when they ever switch the phone off is when the crime happens, there's some evidential value in that too. It's led to some people I think they wanted to speak to.
MB : SY had four suspects, they were linked by the use of mobile phones, their backgrounds and their location on the night Madeleine disappeared. The Metropolitan Police asked the Portuguese to invite them and others to be interviewed in 2014. The four were questioned and made arguidos, suspects. José Carlos da Silva was one of them, he was a driver at the holiday complex when Madeleine vanished. He and the others were interrogated by the Portuguese police with questions supplied by SY.
 

MR : We had some descriptions to work with, and that led to us identifying amongst the 600, a group of people who were worth pursuing, (have they been involved in this activity, have they had a role in Madeleine going missing? Because what the hypothesis was, then) we’ve got some searches, we’ve worked with the Portuguese, they were spoken to, and we pretty much closed off that group of people (in brackets the part of the quote that was eliminated in Searching of Madeleine).
 

MB : Another of those questioned was a Russian born computer specialist, Serguei Malinka. It was not the first time Mr Malinka had been questioned, he was interrogated soon after Madeleine vanished, but was never made a formal suspect then. He spoke to Sky News 10 years ago.
 

SM : They confirmed I'm a witness, not a suspect, so basically I'm just going to wait for investigation going on.
 

MB : The new Portuguese investigation focused on a series of sex attacks on young sleeping children at resorts along the coast. There were 3 here at Albufeira, 2 at Carvoeiro and another at Silves.
 

AS : In most cases the child involved was 8, 9, 10 years old, but in one case the child was just 3 years old. (note 12)
 

RS : There were some 50 odd files on sexual predators that have been forwarded to the Portuguese police by the British police that the British were not convinced had all been thoroughly investigated. (note 13)
 

MB : A former OC waiter, Euclides Monteiro, was identified by the police as a suspect for the sex attacks and possibly for Madeleine's abduction. (note 14)
 

PdC : We've thought at the time that there were enough reasons for us to believe that this could have been the work of one person and that one person could also have been responsible for Madeleine MC's disappearance.
 

MB : DNA tests eventually ruled out Mr Monteiro, but even before he'd become a suspect he was dead, killed in a tractor accident in 2009.
 

(to CS) : What this shows is that we've got two police forces working hundreds of miles apart and pursuing different suspects.
 

CS : It's difficult for two adjacent UK police forces to have a joint investigation. When you multiply the differences over a language barrier, cultural differences and two different criminal justice systems, then I think you're always going to come up with a tension and then possibly with different results.
 

MB : What if Madeleine wasn't the victim of a crime ? What if she had simply woken up, wandered off and fallen into a roadwork trench, which was left open that night. Former RAF navigator John Ballinger who lives nearby had alerted the police to the possibility.
 
JB : The most likely thing if she had been in there was that she fell on the spoil and the whole lot slid down and she was covered by all the soil and things that had been excavated.
 

MB : Portuguese authorities insisted that all roadwork's had been inspected the next morning before they were filled in. In June 2014, SY checked part of the sewage system nearby. For all theories Madeleine's parents cling to one simple fact : there is no evidence their daughter has come to any harm. It gives them hope that she is still alive.
 

KMC (BBC) : You have to keep going, especially when you've got other children involved. You know some of our subconscious I think your mind and body just take over to a certain extent. One of our goals is still to find Madeleine and was to ensure that Sean and Amelie have a very normal happy and fulfilling life.
 

GMC : Before Madeleine, euh was taken, we felt we'd managed to achieve a little perfect nuclear family of five and that was for a short period and then you have a new normality and unfortunately for us the new normality is a family of four.
 

MB : They are not alone in their hope, children missing for longer than Madeleine have been found and brought home. The campaigner who more than anybody has kept the MCs from complete despair is Ernie Allen. He's the former president of the US National Centre for Missing and Exploited Children and he knows that miracles can happen,
 

EA : It is realistic to think that MMC is still alive. Somebody knows and if we can find that one person, even 10 years later, who has information they were not willing to share 10 years earlier for whatever reason, and ask them to come forward now, at a minimum we can provide some sense of justice for Gerry and Kate MC.
 

MB : There is no British equivalent of Ernie Allen's missing child centre, but the Home Office report did recommend one to avoid the confusion and ill feeling that so dogged the first Madeleine investigation.
 

JG : So in a national centre of that source, you would have officers from different European forces, you would be working with them on the ground training, applying the lessons, building the bridges, so that actually when something happened we were moving as a collective, as opposed to individuals in a team sport.
 

AJ : Nothing's happened in the ensuing 10 years that suggests that if it happened again there'd be any better, more coordinated response.
 

MB : Today there is little to remind anybody of the tragedy that happened here. At the village church prayers are said for Madeleine every week, but gone are the photographs, the posters, the appeals for information? There's graffiti, but it's negative.
 

Paul Luckman : What these people will say "why did they leave their children alone, we don't do that, we take our kids with us to the restaurant", it's not fair but it's the way that it is, people look up to a portion of blame, they're trying to understand, there is nothing, we don't know what happened.
 

MB : Over the years, Kate and Gerry MC have been the target of extraordinary internet abuse, some of which includes death threats. Recently the picture of the couple and their children eating at a restaurant was shared on social media. It prompted a range of comments suggesting spitting in their food and throwing beer in their faces. The police have never taken action against any of their online attackers.
 

JG : I hope those people that have said and done things that were cruel and unkind and unnecessary in the absence of evidence reflect on the part they have played, including a legacy of vile on the Internet.
 

MB : It's difficult to understand the continuing widespread hostility towards the MCs, they've acknowledged they were wrong to leave the children on their own and two police forces have found no evidence that they played any part in their daughter's disappearance. In our investigation we discovered nothing to suggest otherwise. The mystery of what happened to MMC is still just that, a mystery. There's no firm evidence to explain what happened. There's no happy ending, no tragic ending, there's no ending at all. (note 15)
 

To CS : If you were in charge today, what would you be doing, what more could you be doing?
 

CS : Here and now, where we are now I would be saying "we need to start this again from the beginning and look at absolutely everything, because unless that's done I fear the SY investigation will just peter out and we may never know.
 
MB : So are you saying that the past six years and 12 million pounds has all been a waste ?
 
CS : I suppose I am, because we're not really any further forward, we're not any closer now to knowing what happened to Madeleine on that night, and I think we could have been.

 
MB : The Portuguese and the Metropolitan police both admit their relationship has sometimes been fraught, but they now say they're working closely together.
 
MR :  I know we have a significant line of enquiry which is worth pursuing, and because it is worth pursuing, it could provide an answer, but until we have gone through it, I won’t know whether we will get there or not.
What area is that focus on ?
 
??????????????????? we can fish around this, as much as you want. Ourselves and the Portuguese are doing a critical piece of work and we don’t want to spoil it by putting titbits out on it publicly.
 
PdC : The relationship between the Metropolitan police and the PJ is let's say cooperative. Our two investigations are not dependent on each other, but it is important for us to have the Metropolitan police working side by side with us.
 
MR : I wish I could say, I so wish I could say that we will solve this.
 
GMC : My point of view, you know, somebody knows what's happened.
 
KMC : Whatever it takes for as long as it takes, you know, but there's still hope that we can find Madeleine.
 
MB : If you would like to explore more of the data… (publicity for Sky News)
 
Note 12The public would appreciate sources for such a serious statement.
  
Note 13Since when does a victim, instead of complaining by the authorities of the (foreign) country where the crime or misdemeanour was committed, goes back to the UK and lodges a complaint by the UK police ? Since when the UK police that got the complaint sends it to the foreign country police, asking for an inquiry ?
  
Note 14It was fast established, and not because the man had died, that Euclides Monteiro never attacked anyone sexually
  
Note 15Among many other things, one had to remember the 48 questions that Kate MC refused to answer, when she was made arguido. Though it was her lawyer’s advice (Gerald MC got the same advice but answered) it is extraordinary that a mother wouldn’t answer the questions of the police force in charge of finding her disappeared child, especially because the questions were not tricky ones : In which state was the flat when you got in ? Which objects did you touch?

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