McCann Interview and VideoTranscripts

This thread is another to compliment Get'emGoncalo's Rogue of the Day and the Video of the Day thread etc.  My reason being, I frequently recall something said in a video but can't remember who, what, where or when.  I don't always have time to trawl through the many McCann interview videos looking for something specific, so I think this could be a handy direct reference point for members and guest readers alike.  My other reason being, words straight from the McCanns themselves that can be seen and heard, are more revealing than unreliable media reports. sources close to the family and hearsay. 

It's success will be very dependent on member participation - I can only add when I come across an interview I think of importance or interest.  If however it doesn't take off, no matter, it can be merged with an existing forum.

Here's a starter - recorded only one month after Madeleine's alleged disappearance..

(Please use this topic for reference and post only transcripts - Admin)

BBC Crimewatch

Recorded in Praia da Luz: 04 June 2007, Televised: 05 June 2007
 
Fiona Bruce: (to camera) "It's 33 days since little Madeleine McCann disappeared from Praia da Luz in Portugal. Tonight, in a special appeal, her parents Gerry and Kate plead for your help in the hunt for their daughter."
 
Gerry McCann: "For the Crimewatch viewers at home I think this would be a good time now to review all the information."
 
Kate McCann: "These are virtually identical to the pyjamas that Madeleine was wearing when she was taken. As you can see it's a pink top, errm... with gathered short sleeves and it has a picture of Eeyore on the front. Errr, the bottoms are white with a... a floral design and have an Eeyore, errm... on the bottom of the right leg."
 
Gerry McCann: "Around, errr... the time that Madeleine, errr... was found to be missing, shortly before that, there was a suspect, errr... seen walking away from the apartment, errr... with, errm... probably carrying a child.
 
"He is approximately 35 years of age, round about 5ft 8, 5ft 9. He had dark hair parted, errr... to one side, he was wearing, errr... dark jacket, errr... slightly longer than a suit jacket, light coloured trousers, which may have been beige or mustard coloured, and dark shoes. Errr... You know it could have been someone innocent, we would certainly be keen that that person comes forward to be eliminated but, you know, we are certainly suspicious of the timing.
 
"We certainly know that it... it could only take one... one phone call. Errm, someone has a key bit of information and it may be someone close to whoever has Madeleine. It might be the person themselves. They can phone, tell the police where Madeleine is."
 
Kate McCann: "The majority of people, you know, are really good people and, I think that's been demonstrated by all... all the fantastic support we've had, it's been amazing. Errm, there are a few bad people in the world but also there are a few sad people and I guess I'm hoping that it's someone sad who's just wanted our daughter."
 
Gerry McCann: "It... it's not too late to hand her over."
 
Fiona Bruce: (to camera) "It certainly isn't. We so much want to find her, don't we? British police also want anyone who was on holiday at the Ocean Club Resort, Praia da Luz, or the surrounding areas, between the 19th April and the 3rd of May to have a look at their holiday photos and if any members of the public are in the background the police are keen to see them. They have sophisticated equipment which can spot if the same person appears in different photos.
 
"You can upload your photos to [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and if you have any information that will help the McCanns' appeal please call this dedicated British police number on 0800 0961233 or 0207 1580197, if you're calling from abroad. And police would like to stress this appeal is aimed at anyone who hasn't already contacted them. And if you've seen Madeleine you should inform local police immediately, please don't wait until you get home."

[Thanks to Nigel Moore of mccanfiles.com for transcript]

Kate and Gerry McCann- BBC Radio 4 Today interview.  1st May 2008

Sarah Montague: It'll be a year on Saturday since Madeleine McCann disappeared. In that time her parents have kept up a very high profile campaign in the hope that some new piece of information comes forward that might lead them to establish what happened to their daughter.
 
She's probably now the most famous child in the world and yet, despite the acres of coverage, we seem no closer to establishing what happened to her than on the very first night she disappeared.
 
Kate and Gerry McCann came into the studio yesterday with their media adviser, Clarence Mitchell. They'd been doing interviews all week and I asked them whether, although they wanted the publicity, they were dreading seeing their faces and various headlines all over the front pages again.
 
Gerry McCann: I think the problem we have, errm... with being in the papers every day is that there just is not the facts to sustain coverage every day. We have not tried to, errm... have a campaign that has bombarded people on a daily basis and, errm... the problem with that is that, errr... column inches get filled with, quite frankly, you know, a lot of rubbish.
 
Sarah Montague: But you want this, don't you? You want the... the media coverage to get publicity.
 
Gerry McCann: We only want responsible media coverage, we don't want irresponsible media coverage that's caused untold damage already.
 
Kate McCann: I mean, certainly in the early days it was vital, errm... to let people know that Madeleine was missing and to get her picture out there, really, and there's very good evidence, years and years of evidence, to show that that actually helps recover missing children and that's what we wanted.
 
I mean, I... I can remember though after, it was probably a week or something, it wasn't long, when Gerry said 'we don't actually need Madeleine's picture on the front of a newspaper every day' because there wasn't a story to tell, and yet, a picture was there every day, with nothing, or worse than nothing, written.
 
Sarah Montague: But you are driving this, let's be clear. This is a year on, the campaign, you are driving this, there's a... a documentary, you're doing interviews, you're doing interviews with all the papers, with all the media outlets.
 
Gerry McCann: I think that's a bit simplistic to say we're driving this. Errr... Clarence has had over 400 bids, errr.. for interviews with us and we anticipated that if we got to this terrible date, essentially a year on, that the media attention on us would be huge. We decided to make the documentary, so that we were making a statement and we want to build on what we said and not continue to go over old ground.
 
It's a very difficult situation for us. Clearly, we need the public, who have vital information, to come forward and help us find our daughter but we do not need unscrupulous commercial decisions running stories that simply don't merit it.
 
Sarah Montague: What are your hopes that the public can come forward with?
 
Gerry McCann: Well, today we... first of all, errm... we are launching a new hotline number for people who have information that may be relevant. I'd like to give that, it's 0845 8384699 and essentially we asking anyone who may have been in and around Praia da Luz, this time last year, who may have had something similar to... to them that possibly has, or has not, been reported, to come forward if they have information.
 
There are... suspect, who was seen walking away from the apartment shortly before Madeleine, errr... was discovered missing and we'd like to remind people about that sketch, that's there, and they may have seen someone. We think that this is not a problem specific to Portugal, it's an international problem, and we want people to rack their brains and help us, this is...
 
Sarah Montague: What do... there are a lot of theories, of course, about what might have happened to her, I mean, so many theories. What do you both think happened to her?
 
Kate McCann: I know Madeleine was abducted from her bed on the 3rd of May.
 
Sarah Montague: You know that?
 
Kate McCann: Yes.
 
Sarah Montague: How can you know that?
 
Kate McCann: I can't give you all the facts, errm... but, you know, as we say, there was a man seen carrying a child, wearing the same pyjamas that Madeleine was wearing, errm... on that night.
 
Sarah Montague: Could she have walked out of the apartment?
 
Kate McCann: I know she couldn't have walked out of the apartment.
 
Gerry McCann: Again, it's very difficult because we are still under judicial secrecy and therefore we cannot, and we should not, give too much investigative detail - there's too much detail been out there already. There's an awful lot of incorrect detail as well and in some ways separating the wheat from the chaff is very, very important. I want to make it clear we will not be giving additional investigative detail and people who come forward with information, to us, can do so anonymously.
 
Sarah Montague: You... you obviously find it incredibly difficult because there must be things... I mean, I can see just from the way you're talking now, that there are things that you want to say but that you feel that you can't say.
 
Kate McCann: Do you know what though, Sarah, you'd be exhausted if you tried to knock back every bit that's been written in the paper. You'd be absolutely exhausted. There's so few facts and yet there's been so much written and it takes your energy and we wanna focus on finding Madeleine and that's the most important thing. So, it... I mean, it's difficult, but I think we have to also, kind of, just let it go by, really, and...
 
Sarah Montague: Do you... tell us about the role of the Portuguese police here because do you still feel that you're working with them or against them?
 
Gerry McCann: Well, we have very little contact with them, errm... so, I think that, errm... tells you, errm... a story in itself and that's not unusual in Portugal.
 
Sarah Montague: It... it didn't, of course, start out like that. To begin with, in... in the weeks you had, you appeared to have a very good relationship with them and there was a certain point at which you became, you still are, official suspects. When did you realise that they thought you might have been involved?
 
Gerry McCann: I mean, that's all been documented already, clearly we were declared, errm... arguido when we went in for interviews at the end of September...
 
Kate McCann: Start of September.
 
Gerry McCann: Sorry, start of September. Errm... obviously the files are still secret, so, errm... when the files become public then everyone can see what, errm... information is in the files and what is not in the files, errm... and in the interim all we are going to do is continue to look for our daughter.
 
Sarah Montague: It was presumably though, at that moment, that you realised that they weren't looking for your daughter.
 
Kate McCann: Well, certainly that was the... the biggest realisation to me and probably the most upsetting thing, yeah.
 
Sarah Montague: Was that the most difficult point in the year?
 
Kate McCann: Well, I think the first night was probably the most difficult, errm... but that was probably a close second, for sure, yeah.
 
Gerry McCann: I think you have to say here that we don't know what has been done and what hasn't been done.
 
Sarah Montague: By the police?
 
Gerry McCann: Yeah. The files are secret. We don't know if they were still were looking for Madeleine but clearly there was a major focus on, errr... looking at us. As I said, early in August, there's no problem with that, we'd nothing to hide, we cooperated fully and we've given, since day one, all the information that we thought that might be relevant and any specific information, we've been asked for, we've given it to the police.
 
Sarah Montague: And then, of course, you... we have, errr... a situation where, in a sense, I suppose, there must be a feeling that the British media turned against you because so much was written and that was, what, through August, September. At certain points did you think then, 'look this media campaign has to carry on if only to protect us'.
 
Gerry McCann: I think, again, uhhh... you're putting two things together in terms of a media campaign. We had, errr... an awareness campaign about, errr... keeping Madeleine's image out there and then we had, errr... a second aspect where, errr... clearly there was a lot of damage done to us reputationally and we felt that those things could not go unchallenged, errr... there was so much, errr... rubbish written, and that is why we ultimately took action, errr... against the Express Group newspapers for the sustained and completely ridiculous assertions that were published there in, over a hundred articles.
 
We are not characters in a book or a soap opera, we are real people, with real feelings, we have got a real family and we've got other children to protect while we're searching for our other daughter.
 
Sarah Montague: Tell us about that, tell us about how... to what extent life can return to normal because you're back at work now, aren't you?
 
Gerry McCann: I am, yeah.
 
Sarah Montague: Could you consider going back to work, Kate?
 
Kate McCann: Errr... not at the moment, it just doesn't... doesn't feel right, to be honest. I mean, I'm very busy at the moment, there's a lot going on, even Gerry'll say when he gets home from work, we're very busy and, errm... I mean, you can't.... you know, you can't completely switch off from... for looking for Madeleine and that's important for us, it's important for Sean and Amelie.
 
Sarah Montague: So, what now? What now can you do, in searching for Madeleine, continuing the search realistically?
 
Gerry McCann: Again, we're hoping for a... a very strong response from the public, errr... when we appeal, we'll be launching new posters. We strongly believe somebody knows something that will lead us to who took Madeleine and we want, really, people to rack their brain and help us. It is the most horrific crime.
 
Sarah Montague: And you don't, for a second, doubt that she's not still alive?
 
Kate McCann: I mean, we both believe there's a very good chance she's alive and I think it'd be totally irresponsible and I think it would be a disservice to Madeleine to think otherwise.

Sarah Montague: Kate and Gerry McCann, thank you, very much.

[Transcript thanks to Nigel Moore of mccannfiles.com]

Posted by CMoMM forum owner Get'emGoncalo in October 2016.

Dr Christian Ludke - Criminal Psychologist

Interviewer: You have since early on warned that behavior of Gerry and Kate McCann is pointing towards them being involved, what had made you feel that way?

Ludke: In the latest years I have often been in contact with parents who had lost their child due to a crime. They are under massive shock, were helpless, were insecure, withdrawing themselves. They have an inner struggle, blaming themselves for possibly not have looked enough after their child.

Interviewer: Was it different with the McCanns?

Ludke: They live completely different, often harmonic. Already after a few days they went jogging, as if that was a normal thing to do, they always came together. These parents took matters into their own hands instead of leaving matters in the hands of the police. They distanced themselves from their two other children by going on a European tour, that to me is very strange.

Interviewer: Maybe it was an accident?

Ludke: No. In such a case, after the first shock they would have trusted the police. Both parents are doctors, in case of an accident they would have tried to get help. It is even more unrealistic that of all people two doctors would leave 3 children alone in a strange environment, even more at night. I have many doctors as patients. As professionals they know all that can happen to children, and as parents they are overly protective.

Interviewer: What could have been the motive, to disappear their own daughter?

Ludke: There are parents who have little to no emotional binding with a child. Often such a child is considered a burden, that is treated in a brutal or perverse way. The most known is the Munchhausen-by proxy-Syndrome: The mother hurts the child until it is almost not alive anymore and then calls for the police because she herself has a huge wish for attention.

Interviewer: Do you think it is possible that Madeleine’s parents have killed Madeleine together and hidden her?

Ludke: I believe both have perpetrator knowledge.

Interviewer: You mean, the McCanns have planned the death of their daughter?

Ludke: Yes, it is possible that they have planned the act for a long time, at least in must have been in their minds often and they must have spoken about it together. Otherwise they would now be contradicting each others.

Interviewer: When parents are guilty of killing their child, do they block that out of their minds?

Ludke: not likely. Both are very much conscious, give interviews, travel. It is for them easier to lie than to tell the truth.
One can rule out a psychoses. Many things are pointing towards mentally disturbed. The children of the McCanns were conceived artificially, that can lead to problems in parenthood. Maybe a lack of self esteem that is not often talked about. Maybe the child had to die for a problem that had been going on for many years.

Interviewer: But the McCanns seem perfect and loving parents.

Ludke: That image to the outside world can be due to a guilt mechanism when on a media campaign, and to distract from the real problem.

Interviewer: Why do they not go back to Great Britain?

Ludke: That also speaks against them, when someone looses a child they want to be with loved ones in a trusted surrounding. When they continue to stay on that resort, there were something terrible happened the worse that can happen to a parent, being loosing a child, that points towards a permanent survival instinct, images of what happened must pop up when being there. That the McCanns do not return home, where they also can have memories of happy times with their children can be a way out, to not be de-connected with what they have done.

Interviewer: The world thinks it is impossible that these parents can be guilty.

Ludke: the media are probably been taken on by the McCanns. Very soon they have been thinking of themselves instead of of the child. De parents were treated like the Beckhams. In his Internet diary the father writes almost daily about that and irrelevant/banal things, which shirt he was wearing, what the weather is like. That isn’t a father that is worried. Statistically 70 percent of all the violence against children is caused by the parents, family members or friends. That has unfortunately not been looked into. The Portuguese police was treated very unfairly when pointing towards that.
About

Criminal Psychologist Dr. Christian Ludke

Pat Brown: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Courtesy of RosieandSam:

Transcript of interview between AC Mark Rowley (MR) and broadcast media for use from 21:00hrs on Tuesday, 25 April.

Q: Six years’ on of Scotland Yard’s involvement, a team of largely 30 people, £11/12 million you’ve spent, what have you achieved?

MR: We’ve achieved an awful lot. I think you know that we have a track record for using cold cases on serious old cases, and we solve many cases that way. This is no different in one respect but is particularly complicated. I think people get seduced perhaps by what they see in TV dramas where the most complex cases are solved in 30 minutes or 60 minutes with adverts as well. What we started with here was something extraordinary. We started with 40,000 documents. We’ve got the original Portuguese investigation and six or eight sets of private detectives who’ve done work and we did appeals to the public, four Crimewatch appeals, hoovering as much information as possible. Sifting that, structuring it and working through it is an immense effort. It’s much more ‘hard slog’ in reality than it is inspiration. That takes time and it takes systems. That’s what we’ve been working on. And what you’ve seen in the bits which have been reported publically is those appeals, when we’ve announced suspects, when we’ve made particular announcements, slowly crunching through it and focusing our attention and making progress. And of course at one stage we had 600 people who at one stage have been of interest to the enquiry, that doesn’t mean that they are suspects, people who were suspicious at the time or have a track record which makes us concerned about them, sifting, which focused the enquiry increasingly and when you’re doing this then across a continent and with multiple languages and having to build working relationships with the Portuguese, you put that together and that takes real time.

So we’ve achieved complete understanding of it all, we’ve sifted out many of the potential suspects, people of interest, and where we are today is a much smaller team, focused on a small remaining number of critical lines of enquiry, which we think are significant. If we didn’t think they were significant we wouldn’t be carrying on.

Q: So when you talk of success and progress, it’s really a case of eliminating things? You’re not getting any nearer to finding out what happened?

MR: So our mission here is to do everything reasonable to provide an answer to Kate and Gerry McCann. I’d love to guarantee them that we would get an answer, sadly investigations can never be 100 per cent successful. But, it’s our job, and I’ve discussed it with them, we’ll do everything we can do, reasonably, to find an answer to what’s happened to Madeleine. And I know, Pedro, the senior Portuguese colleague I’ve worked with and his team, have a shared determination, to find an answer. That’s what we’re going to do.

Q: You’ve described it as a ‘unique’ case. Why is it unique?

MR: I think it’s unique in two or three respects. First of all the way its captured attention in different countries is quite unusual. You’ll get a very high-profile case in a particular country, the way it has captured interest across countries, I think is significant. The length of it. And it’s unusual to have a case like this where you’re doing a missing persons investigation, where ten years on, we still don’t have definitive evidence about exactly what’s happened. And that’s why we’re open minded, even if we have to be pessimistic about the prospects, we are open minded because we don’t have definitive evidence about what happened to Madeleine.

Q: You say you haven’t got definitive evidence, do you have any clues at all which might explain what happened to her?

MR: So, you’ll understand from your experience, the way murder investigations work, detectives will start off with various hypotheses, about what’s happened in a murder, what has happened in a missing person’s investigation, whether someone has been abducted. All those different possibilities will be worked through. This case is no different from that but the evidence is limited at the moment to
be cast iron as to which one of those hypotheses we should follow. So we have to keep an open mind. As I said we have some critical lines of enquiry, those linked to particular lines of enquiry, but I’m not going to discuss them today because they are very much live investigations.

Q: Do you have some evidence, in your six years of investigation, have you unearthed some evidence to explain what happened?

MR: We’ve got some thoughts on what we think the most likely explanations might be and we’re pursuing those. And those link into the key lines of enquiry we’re doing now. As I said, those are very much live investigations and I know that’s frustrating when you’re doing a programme looking back but it’s hard to talk about that now, it’s going to frustrate the investigation.

Q: I know it’s not your money, it has come from the Home Office, but how do you justify spending so much on one missing person?

MR: Big cases can take a lot of resource and a lot of time and we have that with more conventional cases which Scotland Yard gets involved with that run over many years. I think it’s worth noting that this cold case approach we do, every year we’re solving cases that have gone cold years ago. I think in the last year it’s 35 rape cases, and two murder cases. Some of those reaching back to the 1980s. The cold case approach does have some expense, it is time-consuming, looking back at old records, but it does help solve old cases and you give families and victims an understanding of what went on. It’s worthwhile. This case is unusual, it’s not in Scotland Yard’s remit to investigate crimes across the world normally. In this case, in 2011, the Portuguese and British prime ministers were discussing the case and agreed that Scotland Yard would help and recognising that it’s not what we’re normally funded for, we were given extra money to put a team together to work with the Portuguese and that’s what we’ve been doing ever since. We’ve tried to be careful about public money and we started with that massive sifting and we’ve narrowed the enquiry, the funding has reduced accordingly. And we will stick with it as long as the funding is available, as long as there are sensible lines of enquiry to pursue.

Q: You’ve talked about 600 people. You at one point had four suspects. Can you tell me the story about how they came into the frame?

MR: So, one of the lines of enquiry, one of the hypotheses was could this be a burglary gone wrong? Someone is doing a burglary, panicked maybe by a waking child, which leads to Madeleine going missing.

Q: Most burglars would just run out.

MR: Possibly.

Q: Difficult for the public to understand that potential theory, given that every child wakes up.

MR: In my experience, if you try to apply the rational logic of a normal person sat in their front room to what criminals do under pressure, you tend to make mistakes, so it was a sensible hypothesis, it’s still not entirely ruled out, but there was also lots of material about people acting suspiciously, a potential history of some recent thefts from holiday apartments. Working through that it was a sensible thing to pursue, and we had some descriptions to work with, and that led to us identifying amongst the 600, a group of people who were worth pursuing, have they been involved in this activity, have they had a role in Madeleine going missing? Because what the hypothesis was, then we’ve got some searches, we’ve worked with the Portuguese, they were spoken to, and we pretty much closed off that group of people. That’s one example of the journey I spoke about, you start with this massive pool of evidence, you understand it, structure it, prioritise it, you work through and you try and sift the potential suspects, and then you end up where we are today with some key lines of enquiry.

Q: As I understand it, the key to your suspicion about those four suspects was very much to do with
their use of mobile phones and one of the criticisms of the original Portuguese police investigation was that they didn’t interrogate the mobile phone data as thoroughly as they could have done. How important was it for you as that part of your investigation for you to pick up and thoroughly investigate the mobile phone data?

MR: So that phone data is always something we will look at and we wouldn’t have had it available if the Portuguese had not got hold of it at the time so we need to be careful about criticism. But we had the data available and we worked with the Portuguese and that was part of the background to do with phone data and various sightings. There was enough there to say, not to prove the case, but there was something worth looking at in more detail and that’s what we did.

Q: How old were the suspects because I think you interviewed them originally through the Portuguese beginning of July 2014?

MR: By the end of the year we were happy to have brought them out and we were moving on to other parts of the investigation.

Q: Do you have any other suspects at the moment?

MR: So, we have got some critical lines of enquiry that are definitely worth pursuing and I’m not going to go into further detail on those. Another I would say though is, these lines of enquiry we have to date, they are the product of information available at the time and information that has come from public appeals that we have done. Four Crimewatch appeals, and other media channels have been incredibly helpful, including yourselves, and thousands of pieces of information have come forward, some useful some not, but amongst that have been some nuggets that have thrown some extra light on the original material that came from the time and that is one of the things that has helped us to make progress and have some critical lines of enquiry we are pursuing today.

Q: The question of other suspects, is there anyone like those four who have been dismissed, is there anyone who has the “alguido” status?

MR: I’m not going to give that level of detail away, we have got some critical lines of enquiry and we are working with the Portuguese on that, we are both interested in. Disclosing any more information on that will not help the investigation.

Q: You said the burglary gone wrong theory is not completely dismissed. What are the other theories? You have spoken in the past, Andy Redwood spoke in the past about focussing on the idea of a stranger abduction, is that still the focus, or a focus?

MR: Whilst we’ve got some lead ideas there is still a lot of unknown on this case. We’ve got a young girl gone missing 10 years ago. Until we get to the point where we have solved it, we’re unlikely to have definitive evidence as to exactly what happened at the time. All the hypothesises that you or I could come up with, they all have to remain open and the key lines of enquiry open today focus on one or two of those areas but we have to keep them all open until we get to that critical piece of evidence that narrows it down and helps us to be more confident as to exactly what has happened on the day Maddie went missing.

Q: Over the years you have appealed for a number of what could be called suspicious-looking men, watching the apartment, watching the apartment block. Knocking on the doors touting for a bogus charity. You have issued E-fits, have you been able to identify and eliminate any of those?

MR: Some of them have been identified and eliminated but not all of them.

Q: The theory of a sex predator responsible for Maddie’s disappearance is something the Portuguese police have focussed on. How big a part of your investigation has that been, because there were a series of sex attack on sleeping, mainly British children in nearby resorts. So how important has that
been to your investigation?

MR: That has been one key line of enquiry. The reality is in any urban area, you cast your net wide and you find a whole range of offences and sex offenders who live nearby and those coincidences need to be sifted out; what is a coincidence and what could be linked to the investigation we are currently dealing with and just like we do in London we have been doing in Portugal so offences which could be linked have to be looked at and either ruled in or ruled out and that’s the work we have been doing.

Q: Andy Redwood, the first senior investigating officer, said in one interview his policy was to go right back to the beginning, accept nothing, but one thing you appear to have accepted is that this was an abduction. It’s in your first remit statement, it refers to ‘the abduction’, which rather suggests right from the start you had a closed mind to the possibility of parents’ involvement, an accident or Madeleine simply walking out of the apartment.

MR: Two points to that, firstly the involvement of the parents, that was dealt with at the time by the original investigation by the Portuguese. We had a look at all the material and we are happy that was all dealt with and there is no reason whatsoever to reopen that or start rumours that was a line of investigation. The McCanns are parents of a missing girl, we are trying to get to the bottom of. In terms of Andy using the word abduction, she was not old enough to set off and start her own life. However she left that apartment, she has been abducted. It is not a 20-year-old who has gone missing and who has made a decision to start a new life, this is a young girl who is missing and at the heart of this has been an abduction.

Q: One of the biggest criticisms of the Portuguese investigation, which they acknowledge as well, is that they did not interrogate the parents from the start, if only to eliminate them. When you started your investigation, you appear to have done the same. Did you formally interview the McCann’s under caution, ever consider them as suspects?

MR: So when we started, we started five or so years into this and there is already a lot of ground been covered, we don’t cover the same ground, what we do is pull all the material we had at the start, all the Portuguese material, private detective material, with all the work that had been done, what that evidence supports, what rules these lines of enquiry out, what keeps them open and you progress forward. It would be no different if there were a cold case in London, a missing person from 1990, we would go back to square one look at all the material and if the material was convincing it ruled out that line of enquiry we would look somewhere else. So you reflect on the original material, you challenge it, don’t take it at face value. You don’t restart an investigation pretending it doesn’t exist and do all the same enquiries again that is not constructive.

Q: The first detective in charge of the case said he was going right back to the start of the case and accepting nothing. It seems very much he was suggesting that it was going to be a brand new investigation.

MR: It’s a brand new investigation, you are going in with an open mind. You are not ignoring the evidence in front of you. That would be a bizarre conclusion. You would look at that material, what does it prove, what it doesn’t. What hypothesis does it open what does it close down and you work your way through the case.

Q: Just to be clear you did not interview the McCanns as potential suspects?

MR: No

Q: Let’s move to today, recently you were given more funding £84,000 to £85,000, how is that going to be used?

MR: As you understand we started with a full-sized murder team of 30 officers, that was a standard
operating approach at the time. So we start with that team and work through the massive amount of investigation. The Home Office has been funding that and of course it is public money so they review that from time to time and as the enquiry has gone on we suggested we could run it with a smaller group of people and that is what happened. That recent level of funding reflects that it’s keeping the team going for the next six months and we will want to keep this running as long as there are sensible lines of enquiry and keep asking the Home Office to fund it as long as there are those open lines of enquiry.

Q: I know you don’t want to go into detail but are there more forensic tests, is that what is going on?

MR: I’m not going to talk about detail of the type of work going on but there are critical lines of enquiry of great interest to ourselves and our Portuguese counterparts and there are some significant investigative avenues we are pursuing that we see as very worthwhile.

Q: Are you still waiting for answers to new ‘rogatory’ letters. I understand how the system works if you want something in Portugal, you have to send ‘rogatory’ letter and get that approved over there. Are there letters in the post?

MR: That process you describe reflects the first four or five years of our work there, sifting through mass amounts of material, putting together with new evidence that comes from appeals, generates new enquiries and the legal requirements the Portuguese have is quite labour intensive in terms of dotting I’s and crossing T’s and working through that detail. Where we are now is much narrower much more focussed.

Q: Is there anyone you are still looking for?

MR: Where we are now is much narrower and much more focussed.

Q: There was a report recently that there was an international manhunt in regards to a person you were interested in talking to, maybe not even a suspect, maybe a witness?

MR: There are odd headlines and odd stories in newspapers on a regular basis and most of those are nonsense.

Q: You say in your statement, you are getting information on a daily basis, new information, what sort of information?

MR: First of all it is indicative of the level of interest in this case, not just in this country but across the world. The team are getting emails, phone calls, new information all the time and it ranges from the eccentric, through to information that on the surface looks potentially interesting and needs to be bottomed out and are constantly sifting through them.

Q: Are you any closer to solving this then you were six years ago?

MR: I know we have a significant line of enquiry that is worth pursuing, and because of that, it could provide an answer. Until we have gone through it, I won’t know if we will get there or not.

Q: What area is that enquiry?

MR: Ourselves and the Portuguese are doing a critical piece of work and we don’t want to spoil it by putting titbits out on it publically.

Q: How confident are you this will solve it for you?

MR: It is worth pursuing
Q: What does your instinct say about what happened to Maddie?

MR: If I start going in to my instinct having read the material of interest we are dealing with at the moment it would give away what we are looking in to so I’m not going to answer that. But what I would say from my experience of dealing with cold cases and these types of investigations is that this time, even sadly after 10 years of Maddie being missing there are nuggets of information and lines of enquiry that are worth pursuing and it is possible they may lead to an answer. As long as we have the resources to do it, and as long as we have those sensible lines of enquiry because if we can provide an answer to a family in this horrible situation that is what we must do.

Q: Do the significant lines of enquiry suggest to you Maddie is alive or dead?

MR: As I said earlier on we have no definitive evidence as to whether Maddie is alive or dead. We have to keep an open mind that is why we describe it as a missing person enquiry. Of course we understand why after so many years people would be pessimistic but we are keeping an open mind and treating it as a missing person enquiry.

Q: You’ve said you are realistic about what you are dealing with, what do you mean by that?

MR: We are realistic about the prospects and the assumptions people will make 10 years on when a little girl has gone missing but there is no definitive evidence and as long as that is the case we have to have an open mind and treat it as a missing person enquiry.

Q: If she is alive, she is nearly 14, do you have any idea what she might be doing, where she might be, the circumstances she might be living?

MR: That is such a hypothetical question I cannot begin to answer.

Q: There is a chance she may still be alive.

MR: We have to keep an open mind, it is a missing person enquiry, we don’t have that definitive evidence either way.

Q: How confident are you that you will solve the case?

MR: I wish I could say we will solve this. We solve more than 90 per cent of serious cases at Scotland Yard. I wish I could say I could definitely solve it but a small number of cases don’t get solved. What I have always said on this case and I’ve said to Kate and Gerry. We will do everything we can that is possible to try to find and answer. I hope to find an answer but can’t quite guarantee and as a professional police officer and dealing with the families in awful situations it always hurts you can’t guarantee success, but we will do everything we can to try to get there.

Q: How long might it keep going, your investigation?

MR: It is impossible to be exactly clear. We have a small number of ongoing lines of enquiry, they are critical and we need to deal with those and see how long it takes.

Q: You talk about lines of enquiry because last year the ex-commissioner said there was one piece of work still to be done and when that was completed that would be the end of the investigation. You are rather suggesting things have moved on since then and there is more to pursue, is that true?

MR: We have a small number of lines of enquiry and that’s what we are focussed on.

Q: But he was the boss and he was quite specific ‘one piece of work to do’, you are saying something different?

MR: We have a small number of lines of enquiry, that is what we are pursuing today.

Brian Kennedy publicly request money for legal expenditure


Transcript of BBC - East Midlands Today broadcast on 17th May 2007

Kathy Rochford: (to camera) Here in Rothley, the sea of yellow ribbons, the mountain of soft toys behind me grows ever larger. Now, as you say, it's been two weeks tonight that Madeleine was taken from her parents apartment and yet still people come here today, streaming through, reading the messages of support. Some of them reduced to tears by the notes left by children. Now among the visitors today was Madeleine's Scottish grandmother and I spoke to her just before she flew back to Scotland and she told me that she had just spoken to her son Gerry in Portugal. This is what she said about him. Eileen McCann: Feeling a lot brighter and better in his voice and I think us being here with the family and the fund starting, that's uplifted him and his doctors from the hospital, especially Doug Skeehan, who's his immediate boss, he's been just wonderful. Good uplifting news. So that's probably made his voice a bit brighter; not as anguished, and that's what I found in him today. Kathy Rochford: (to camera) Well, that's how events here are buoying up the family in Portugal but I'm joined now by Madeleine's great uncle, Brian Kennedy, and he's going to tell us about the fighting fund. Errm... what's been the public's response to it, Brian? Brian Kennedy: Well, it's been very good, so far, but a lot of people have said they're not quite sure how they can give money, so may I tell them? Kathy Rochford: Yes, very briefly. Brian Kennedy: Right, very briefly, you can go into any branch of the NatWest, or the Royal Bank of Scotland, and just say that you would like to make a contribution to the Madeleine Fund. Kathy Rochford: Well, tell me Brian about all the people that have been coming up to you today, just literally stuffing money in your hand. Brian Kennedy: (laughs) Yes, they have. It's... it's very touching, very touching. I... I... I would just say this is not an appeal; the family haven't made an appeal. We've just set up a mechanism for people who said they wanted to do something and contribute, so that the money can be used, errr... for all sorts of reasons but probably mainly for legal expenditure. Kathy Rochford: And, of course, there is the video and you want that to have saturation coverage, don't you? Brian Kennedy: We do, it's, errr... gone out and it's very widespread already, errr... we're particularly concerned that it should reach as many countries as possible. Kathy Rochford: Okay, Brian. Thank you very much indeed for talking to us. (to camera) As I said, you can see here all the yellow ribbons. That is a testament of what people feel like. They really want to pay tribute to Madeleine; want to see her back home, safe and well.

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McCanns Law..

Gerry and Kate McCann - Don't Forget About Me 9th August 2007

GM:  Well in terms of the abduction of a foreign child in a foreign country is really very rare. The only case like this is certainly in British children, the only one we know of is Ben Needham, which was in 1991. So, thats sixteen years ago. So, that aspect is incredibly rare and speaking to people in Portugal and Spain, there not aware of any other EU Nationals having children abducted on the Iberian Peninsula. And you think about the tens and millions of tourists that come to Spain and Portugal every year. So, this really was a bolt out of the blue. Um in terms of whats happened to us, I think also the circumstances of a child being abducted from a bedroom are pretty rare as well.

I think what we definitely want to do is continue awareness in Europe you know Southern Europe Iberian Peninsula.

KM:  There are a few people who have said to us you know, too much publicity might not be good because somebody , whoever's got her might keep her hidden and obviously everything we are doing at the minute has a slight risk to it...which is a horrible situation to be in when you are dealing with your daughter, but over all we felt rather thnt sit back and do nothing , this was the way to go.

GM:  We've done a lot of things on our own and clearly theres mixed signals from what could be done in terms of the North American experience.

KM:  Certainly, what Gerry learnt from (inaudible) Washington was by having an image out there was definitely the right thing to do. One in six children that are recovered is because somebody recognised them from a poster and the laws in the States are very different to here and again well ahead of the game...they've got their Amber Alert...you know within two hours of a child being taken a police report has to be filed....you know and um obviously the response time in Europe has to be quicker . it has to be quicker.

GM:  But the problem is that and this applies to the child pornography laws as well, is that if you make regulation tight in one country, the perpetrators dont know any boundaries and they move to a country where legislation is less tight. So, you might be exporting your problem and um why it has to happen , international dimention and thats why the laws need tightening up not just in the UK and U.S. or anywhere else its where children can be abused or likely to be abused.

Crimewatch 2013 Madeleine McCann Special - live interview with Gerry and Kate McCann.

Kirsty Young:   Nice to see you again and I’m sure that can’t have been easy.  Eh, Gerry if I can come to you first, you said the first time you made a public statement that Words cannot describe the anguish and despair that we are feeling.   I wonder tonight having come all the way that you have and having fought as hard as you have for this investigation, hearing the new information what are you feeling tonight?

GM:  I think we’re feeling hopeful and optimistic.   Em, all along we’ve said that a review needed done, and I think the Metropolitan Police have done a great job in piecing things together, bringing all the information, and really identifying new pieces of information that really are taking us further forward.

KY:  Kate, I was entirely conscious as I was speaking to you and Gerry, when we were, when I was interviewing you, that of course I was asking you about the most traumatic and awful day of your life. Of course there is a reason for doing that. People watching tonight might say, you know what, Kate, it is six years on. What do you think’s gonna come out of this? You, you, you, you’re putting yourself through all this heartache. What on earth can happen next? What would you say to them?

KM:  Well, it doesn’t matter how much heartache we put ourselves through, so long as, you know, we get the result that we need. You know, as Gerry said, the Met have made huge progress and that has given us great hope that we can find Madeleine, that we can find out what’s happened to her.

GM:  As well as all the other cases said over the last few years of children who’ve been found after being taken for a long time. You know these cases can get solved, and I think that’s what the public need to think about tonight, the new information, and really rack their brains and come forward.

KY:  I was very conscious when I spoke to you actually you said something to me that you didn’t say during the interview that you said later on when we were chatting off-camera. And you said, Kirsty, you know, the younger that a child is abducted, the greater chance statistically there is that child will be found alive. Now, obviously you have to become experts in this but I very much got that feeling that for both you there is hope there still.

GM:  I think that absolutely we don’t know what’s happened to Madeleine.  Ermm, we don’t know who’s taken her.  Probably our best chance of finding her is identifying that person, and that’s why the e-fits and the sketches and the new information tonight are so important to us, because that’s probably the best chance we’ve got of finding Madeleine.

KY: can I just ask you briefly Kate, for anybody watching tonight, who thinks, I know something, I don’t know I don’t know if it is worth phoning in.  What would you say to them personally tonight if they’re watching.

GM: Please, please have the courage and confidence to come forward now and share that information with us and you could unlock this whole case. So please, the general public has being fantastic but please stay with us and come forward.

KY : We wish you and we wish this twins all the very best. Thank you very much for taking the time to talk to us.  Thank you.

GM and KM : Thank you.

Gerry McCann Interview for BBC World Service 

Broadcast 22nd June 2007 on 50th day anniversary.  Recorded during Gerry McCann's second visit to the UK.

Jenni Murray: It's 50 days since 4-year-old Madeleine McCann disappeared from the holiday villa, in Portugal, rented by her parents. Since then nothing's been heard of the little girl despite a remarkable campaign to keep the case in the public eye. Posters of her have been put up across Europe and North Africa. Her parents, Gerry and Kate, have made visits to European capitals and they've even been to see The Pope. But, so far, nothing. Gerry McCann has just returned to Portugal from a brief trip to Britain to appoint a campaign manager to coordinate their efforts to publicise the case; only the second time he's left Portugal since Madeleine's disappearance. But I spoke to him, while he was here, and asked him what stage the investigations were at now.

Gerry McCann: The actual specifics of what happened and I think the key things here about, errm... who actually has taken Madeleine, errr... why they've taken her and where she is, errr... I don't think we're any the wiser. That's very much why we're having to continue our campaign on an international front to make sure that Madeleine's image and, errr... details of her disappearance are as widely spread as possible.

JM: Are there any leads at all? I mean, is there anything that the police are now following up, for example?

GM: There's a lot of, errr... information still coming into the inquiry and, errm... you know, there's a lot of hard detective work going on. We have to realise that if they were hard leads we wouldn't be telling, errr... the public because, errr... they would be handled in a very quiet, errr... fashion and, errr... investigated. The important thing, at this time, is that we don't have Madeleine and, errr... that's the only, errr... result that'll clearly make Kate and I happy, and the rest of the family.

JM: How do you think Madeleine herself would be coping?

GM: You know, that's somewhere where we, errr... we can't really go because, errm... it's back to speculation and we've absolutely no idea who's taken her and where she is and, errm... you know, what sort of surroundings she's in, so there's just too many in... errr... errr... probabilities there to really consider it.

JM: Is she a tough-minded little girl, though?

GM: I think it might be fair to say that... that she's got a lot of her, errr... mum and dad's characteristics

JM: Mmm... How about the rest of the family; you and... you and Kate especially? I mean, how are you coping really?

GM: Every parent can empathise, errr... with what we're going through, errm... and we've had our fair share of emotions but, errr... you know, we're... we're trying to stay focused and looking forward and very much, errm... putting our energies into helping, errr... the search for Madeleine. That does help us to cope, errm... I think it's very important also to emphasise that we have had, errr... tremendous support, errr... both from our family and close friends, errr... we've had tremendous support from the local community, particularly through the church here, errr... which really lifted us, errr... particularly in those, errr... very few first days where, errm... you know, it... it was not, you know... it was just awful really.

JM: You're talking to me now but how difficult is it to be... to be brave in public; to deal with the... the media; to be in the public eye all the time?

GM: It hasn't been nearly, errm... as intrusive as one might expected it to have been and they have largely respected our privacy, with one or two, quite minor, exceptions. The phase of the campaign now is very different to that which we, errr... have undertaken in the last few weeks with Kate and I, you know, travelling to different areas, errm... either to raise awareness in countries in close proximity to Portugal, such as Spain and Morocco, and also going directly to countries, errr... The Netherlands and Berlin to appeal for information. The campaign really started, errr... within electronic media and, errr... my sister, Phil, took the first campaign-type action, errr... and that was to start a... a chain email, errr... with a poster of Madeleine's image and asked people to distribute it and then we decided to set up a website dedicated to finding Madeleine, the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] So, there's huge amounts of information there and the message that we're sending out... you know, the overriding message, is clearly: 'Madeleine is still missing and, as long as she's missing, we will continue searching for her'.

JM: I've, errm... recently come back from... from southern France. I saw posters in... in several places there, errm... about Madeleine. But what do you... you've obviously been talking to experts on missing children. What do they tell you might have happened to Madeleine that posters such as that, and your... your trips to Morocco, Spain, the other countries, might help to solve?

GM: The general viewpoint from, errm... experts is that raised public awareness is a good thing, when a child is missing, and that's been the main focus of the campaign, errm... Now, you know, we think that that has got a good chance of helping but we know there's no guarantees.

JM: Has the campaign helped you and Kate to cope, in that, at least you feel you're doing something?

GM: It has helped us and it helped us stay positive, errr... perhaps when our, errr... we were feeling very negative. Yes, there's no doubt having a focus and diverting your energy, errr... into the campaign, it certainly does help us but, at the same time, when you don't achieve the... the end goal of getting Madeleine back, it... it's still, you know, very difficult as time goes on. We are determined and, errr... we certainly will not give up and I think, you know, parents would know that; they would do anything to find their child.

JM: You've had help from trauma counsellors. Has... has that actually helped you?

GM: Without a doubt, errr... and I think what, errm... the psychologists, errm... did was give us the tools, errm... to help us cope at the beginning. We could only imagine the worst scenarios and, errm... he helped us to consider other possibilities and that, you know, there's reasonably good possibilities, errr... that Madeleine, errm... has not been seriously harmed and that has helped drive us. We have tremendous hurt that Madeleine is not here and we've had to have, you know, 50 days now, errr... without her and, of course, when you think about Madeleine not being with her family, errr... it's very distressing.

JM: So, for you and... and for Kate, what actually keeps the hope alive? I mean, when... when you're together, can you actually bolster up each other? Is it... or do you simply find that when you're together you feel very depressed about it?

GM: Despite, you know, a huge investigation, there is no evidence, to date, that Madeleine has been, errm... harmed, errr... physically, errm... and that, errr... means that we will always have hope and, errm... the hope is what drives us on in our determination to be reunited with our daughter. So, errr... of course, there are... we have blips and, errr... moments where, errm... we're not quite as positive and that is difficult to deal with but we support each other; we get family support and the huge amount of goodwill.

JM: Are there other international cases you know about which give you hope; where the children were... were eventually found?

GM: There's been a number ofcases, errm... where children have been found, after a long time, errm... that, when you think about these, you know, is a double-edged sword. Errr... You know about the case of the Austrian girl who was found after, I think, eight years, errr... and you think: 'Goodness me,'you never want to be separated, errm... that long and, in fact, every day is too long for us and there's been another case earlier this year where a boy, errr... was found in America after four... four years; well. Errm... So, yes, you know, there are clearly, errr... cases where people are returned.

JM: So, if anyone is listening to this and they... they feel they've got information that could help, what should they do?

GM: Well, there's two ways really, errr... to go about it, errm... all of the police forces in certainly Europe and, errr... North Africa are alerted, errm... to the fact that Madeleine's missing and so they can report information, errr... directly to local, errr... police force and they will act on that and feed it back into Portuguese inquiry.

JM: There's something else that's happening in the campaign today involving balloons. Now, tell me about that.

GM: To mark the 50th day that Madeleine's been missing we have, errr... are going to be releasing 50 balloons, errr... with helium in them. These will be green and yellow to signify the British and, errr... Portuguese colours of hope and on each balloon there'll be a card with Madeleine's image and, errm... the details of the numbers to call if anyone has information and we've had tremendous support. There's going to be at least a hundred locations round the world, from places far afield as Argentina, Philippines, Poland, Slovenia, Romania, errr... South Africa, Ventura in California and, errm... it really is becoming a global campaign.

JM: Gerry McCann, father of Madeleine - who has been missing now for 50 days. You can find more details about the campaign to find her online at bbcworldservice.com/outlook

[Acknowledgement pamalam]

RTE Interview with the McCanns - 9th June 2007

RTE:  Well, the sad and tragic abduction of four-year-old Madeleine McCann in Portugal has focused international attention on the issue of missing children and the abduction of children. On Crime Call we don't normally focus on crimes that happened outside Ireland but given the extraordinary interest in the case in this country and the fact that the McCanns have family links with Ireland, it does seem timely that we consider the case, particularly when many Irish families are now planning their summer holidays. Well, in a moment, we'll be looking further at the abduction of young Madeleine but first to the family themselves. Kate and Gerry McCann took time to talk to Crime Call about their daughter, the support they have received from this country and their future plans.

RTE:  Forty seven days have now passed since the abduction of Madeleine McCann at a resort in Portugal's Algarve. It's a holiday spot favoured by many Irish families; perhaps one reason why this case has struck a chord with so many Irish people.

RTE: (to Kate McCann) Thank you, very much.

Gerry McCann: (to RTE) Hi.

RTE: There's a strong connection between the McCann family and Ireland. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

GM: Yeah, I mean, most of my family are from Donegal and, errr... in fact, my brother and three sisters were all born there and I'm the only one born in Glasgow. And, errr... we had all the extended family, went over to Donegal at Easter, errr... for five days and it was the first time Kate had been in Donegal with us, although her, errr... grandparents are Irish, as well, from Dublin. Madeleine, in particular, had a ball, with all of us as a family. It was a fantastic... fantastic holiday.

Kate McCann: Twenty seven of us.

RTE: And what has been the Irish response to the campaign so far?

KM: We've had so much support from Ireland, I mean, overwhelming, I'd say. And we say we reckon like half the letters that we've had are... are from the Irish, you know. It's been...

GM: The amount of people that we've met here in Praia da Luz who say to us, 'All of Ireland is praying for you'. And we know that, you know. The support has been tremendous and, errr... you know, literally thousands of letters, and other messages of support, just from Ireland alone.

RTE: Tell us, what kind of girl is Madeleine?

GM: She is, errm... well, she's incredible to us, errr... obviously and, errr... but she is very bright, errr... outgoing, errm... lively, quite extroverted character, I would say, full of energy.

KM: I mean, maybe every parent says this, but we actually think we've got a very special relationship with Madeleine.

RTE: Have you been hurt by the criticism that's been directed at you, surrounding the events of Madeleine's abduction?

GM: I don't think anyone can hurt us more than the hurt we're feeling already and, errr... if you know yourself, errm... anyone who's a parent then I think you're the hardest on yourself and there's no doubt we feel guilty because we were not there at that moment, errm... although, you know, Kate has emphasised we are ex... very responsible parents and I don't think what we were actually doing was in any way irresponsible.

RTE: And why do you think it's important to stay here in Portugal?

KM: Well, I mean, I feel closer to Madeleine here, which, I mean, might be wrong; she might be closer to the UK than... than here but I do feel close to Madeleine here. We're also close to the investigation here and, errr... to be honest, I can't really think about going home, to our home, without Ma

Gerry and Kate McCann interview with ace journalist Sandra Felgueiras - 5th November 2009

Sandra: Hello Kate, Hi Gerry. You have called us here, or invited us here to show these two new pictures of how Madeleine might look like now at the age of six and  also to watch a video, a new appeal video, but you have been recently together in Lisbon. Have you truely felt that the portuguese public opinion is still with you?

Gerry: I think obviously there has been a lot written that is very negative, and ehm it is inevitable that given so much..., so much was written negative about us, that some people felt that we were involved, that we do feel now, that legal action has been taken and the judicial process has seen that there is no evidence to support what has been written.

Sandra: You are talking about Goncalo Amaral's book?

Gerry: Yeah, but also with the publication of the file in the first place erm an initial process of the criminal erm file and regarding Madeleine's disappearance. You know there is no evidence that we were involved and subsequently the action we have taken recently I think that people are now prepared to continue the search for Madeleine and that is why we are here today asking people to help us trying to get this very important message...

Sandra: But how can you explain that Goncalo Amaral has sold over 175.000 copies defending that you played the keyrole in Madeleine's disappearance?

Kate: I mean I think it's important to remember Sandra, the only victim in all of this is Madeleine erm and that is obviously why we are here today really, we are trying to, we are trying to reach that person who knows something, and there is somebody who knows something, not the person who has taken Madeleine, but the person on the periphery, and that might just be erm a colleague of the person, a neighbour, a fami..., you know this person, the abductor, has got a mother, a brother, a cousin, a part of family, so that...

Sandra: Do you believe that the public opinion in Portugal right now after reading the book of Goncalo Amaral erm still can support you? Still can answer to that appeal?

Gerry: Now that's the key point why we are taking action Sandra and that is part of the legal process as you know. There is already an injunction out against the book He is banned from repeating his thesis that Madeleine is dead and we were involved. Now that has been two separate judges plus the original judgemental file have said that thats what we will do with discussing the facts. Thats the correct place to discuss.Goncalo Amaral. And the Book...

Sandra: Are you saying that Goncalo Amaral doesn't have the right to share his opinion, his conviction under the evidence he gathered into a book? He doesn't have freedom of expression to say that and to publish it?

Gerry: There is a difference between freedom of expression and evidence to support a theory. What the judges have said there isn't evidence to support this theory, so he shouldn't be saying it. And is about as much as we want to say about him. You know that's a legal process and we have challenged it, it's been through the judicial process and thats....

Sandra: The files were closed and no thesis won. How can you explain that after Goncalo Amaral, Paulo Rebelo, the next investigator, also pursued this thesis? He also investigated the possibility of you both play the keyrole in Madeleine's disappearance?

Gerry: It was investigated, the evidence was presented to the judiciary, and the judiciary concluded there was no evidence to support that thesis, that's very...

Sandra: No DNA, but how do you explain...

Gerry: No no...

Sandra: ...the coincidence...

Gerry: The DNA is only one aspect of it, there was no evidence to support our involvement in Madeleine's disappearance, that is the key thing. Madeleine is still missing, we are here as her family to continue the search. Now I can't speak for people who have read the book but obviously it doesn't stand up to critical appraisal.

Sandra: But this is the first time that you give us a big interview not being arguidos, not being arguidos. Since then. erm. So now I feel free to ask you this directly. How can you explain the coincidence of the scent of cadaver found by british and not portuguese dogs?

Kate: Sandra, maybe you should ask the judiciary because they have examined all evidence. I mean we are also Madeleine's mum and dad and we are desperate for people to help us find Madeleine which is why we are here today. The majority of people are inherently good and I believe the majority of people in Portugal are inherently good people and I am asking them if they will help us spread this message to that person or people...

Sandra: So you don't have an explanation for that?

Gerry: Ask the dogs Sandra.

Sandra: Ask the dogs?  No Gerry. Now I feel free to ask you, don't you feel free to answer me?

Gerry: I can tell you that we have also looked at evidence about cadaver dogs and they are incredibly unreliable.

Sandra: Unreliable?

Gerry: Cadaver dogs, yes. That's what the evidence shows, if they are tested scientifically.

Sandra: You read the files, Kate?

Kate: Yes I have read the files.

Sandra: What did shock you most? Any part of the... any detail that...you weren't... aware of? Something that has really surprised you or you didn't find anything?

Kate: Oh I have been through them and I have made notes and I passed that on to our investigation team obviously.

Sandra: And you found any evidence? Of anything?

Kate: Well obviously the only evidence I wanna find is who has taken Madeleine and where she is. They are the key things and until we actually get that bit of information you know we are always gonna feel like we are a long way away. But basically what we are doing is trying to get as much information as we can and trying to put the jig-shaw, jigsaw together, so finally we have the complete picture.

Sandra: And what about your friends? Did you have a pact of silence with your friends?

Kate: You know the judicial secrecy?

Sandra: I know it but we don't have it anymore.

Gerry: You have to put it into context of the situation that we were in...

Sandra: But now is the time to explain it...

Gerry: That, ar.. ar... article that was written in June was directly as a result of the journalist phoning all of us, and saying what can you tell us about it and we were under explicit instructions that we were not to talk about the details of the case, under judicial secrecy. So that is all that people did. And I don't think that should be considered a pact of silence.We were told, that's what we were to do. And you wouldn't expect witnesses in other cases in any country to begin divulging information that may be useful to the perpetrator of the crime.

Sandra: Are you still friends? Do you plan another trips together or did it damage...?

Kate and Gerry: No No

Kate: We are still friends. We haven't got any holidays planned but we are still friends. We are in touch with each other, we still meet up and see each other.

Sandra: Don't you agree that there were a lot of details that in a certain way contribute to people to doubt of you, for example, when you went to the Vatican so quickly, all the contacts that you have made. Can I ask you Gerry, if you personally know Mr. Gordon Brown the Primeminister?

Gerry:  No, and we still, we have never met Gordon Brown. We have spoken to him once on the phone several weeks after Madeleine was abducted. People have got to remember that, and what today is about... good ordinary people wanted to help find an innocent missing child. And that's what happened. Clearly there was a huge amount of media coverage and people wanted to look at ways to help. Our government wanted to assist the investigation to find the missing child.

Sandra: Are they still supporting you, Mr. Gordon Brown still talks to you directly?

Gerry: We have had continued meetings with both the Home Office and also with the Foreign Office to discuss ways in which the search can continue. Obviously today is a prime example of law enforcement-LED initiative with CEOP with... in conjunction with other law enforcement agencies, Interpol, Europol, and you know, the key thing is, that law enforcement believe we can get information from those who may know.

Sandra: How could you explain that Clarence Mitchell left the British Government where he was a press speaker to be your press speaker?

Gerry: Obviously, when Clarence came first out to Portugal working for the Government at that time he came out and spent I think almost three, two to three weeks with us, and he got to know us very very well, and he felt very very passionate about the search for Madeleine and when the opportunity arose, erm, you know, we asked him if he would come back and shield us from the intense media interest and that is what Clarence has done superbly well, and he has become an extremely good friend during this.

Sandra: But he must be paid.?

Gerry: He was paid, that's right

Sandra: And now he must be paid?

Gerry: yeah, but you know...

Sandra: Isn't it difficult for you to pay him?

Gerry: You know, in the first period Brian Kennedy paid his salary and then he was subsequently paid by the fund and now, you know, he works part-time on this, and he is a consultant for Freud Agency, so, you know, as the media interest dropped down, we haven't needed a full-time spokesperson. He still works with us, we are working very closely with him and he has done a brilliant job protecting us and allowing us to have some degree of normality as a family considering the very very intense media interest.

Sandra: You have also hired a new communication agency back in Portugal. Why do you think you need it and is it easy for you to afford it?

Gerry: Well again, it is an agreement that it is funded out of Madeleine's fund. It's a decision that was made by the directors of the fund, because we felt... Kate and I are both directors of the fund, there are nine directors in total, that to really make the search successful we had to present information to the portuguese public, given how much had been written in a negative way about us, and obviously we want to work with someone who understands the portuguese culture and the portuguese media and how we could persuade people that Madeleine is still out there and still can be found....

Sandra: Until when do you think that you will afford all this? Two lawyers in Portugal, a news agency, Clarence Mitchell... I don't know if you still have the two lawyers that you have hired here in London?

Kate: It's not ideal, you know, Sandra. We wouldn't have any lawyers, we wouldn't need any appeal if we weren't in the situation....

Sandra: But don't you feel strangled? Don't you feel that some day you feel it will be finished the money?

Kate: We have to do whatever we can to find Madeleine and obviously we have to look at sort of , you know, if the fund starts to run out we have to try and get more money in, we can't stop...

Sandra: And how do you do it?

Gerry: Well, you know, people have been extremely kind. You have to remember that the fund was set up initially because so many people offered money to try and help and wanted to help and were prepared to donate. We would love nothing better for Madeleine to be found and for the remaining moneys in the fund to go to helping other families of missing children both in the UK and in Portugal, and that is one of our objectives when we have found Madeleine... AND her abductor, then the moneys will be used for that. Obviously if the money runs out... is running out, then we have to look at alternative ways of fundraising erm we have done small events, community events, which have been very good for team building. We have had a small auction in Madeleine's school and the school where the twins are.

Sandra: Do you still have the support of Mr. Richard Branson, JK Rowling, this multimillionaire that initially gave you a lot of money?

Gerry: (burblegurgle) ..an independent investigation that has been funded completely out of Madeleine's fund... I mean an event like today, there is no specific cost for it, and this is obviously the internet, people already have subscriptions, they can do this. There is the willingness of the population to help and I think we will find hundreds of thousands if not millions of people today will forward this link to their contacts in countries all over the world. That is cheap.

Sandra: Do you still have money in the fund?

Gerry: There is some money still in the fund and it continues to be used and we will use every single penny in that fund in the search for Madeleine.

Sandra: You have asked Goncalo Amaral to pay you 1 million euros for damage erm for the defamation for example. Do you need that money to finance the campaign?

Kate: The reason why we have taken action against Goncalo Amaral is the damage that he has done for Madeleine. That's our main focus.

Sandra: Which motives could he have to make up all this story?

Gerry: We can't speak for Goncalo Amaral.

Sandra: But I presume that you think something? Why should an investigator make it up, a story without evidence

Kate: It has to be financial gain, hasn't it?

Sandra: You think that he made this with the commercial perspective?

Kate: You would have to ask him to get the answer to this.

Sandra: So this is your idea?

Kate: It's a possibility, isn't it. I mean I have....

Sandra: You think Goncalo Amaral is trying to win money playing with your, erm your child's life?

Kate: We have to wonder why an ex-inspector of the PJ would want to convince the population that Madeleine is dead, with absolutely no evidence whatsoever. And that question should be asked.

Sandra: Do you feel that there is a difference of treatment between the portuguese authorities and the british authorities? In any moment did you feel, or do you feel still, that you were victims of the portuguese investigation?

Gerry: The key victim is Madeleine. I mean, that's what the crime is about. We know we had to be investigated. And we have been investigated.

Sandra: Sorry Gerry, but you Kate said once, that you were feeling bad with what they asked you inside the PJ, trying to get a confession from you...

Kate: I know the truth Sandra, you know what I mean, and all I want to do is find Madeleine and I was upset...

Sandra: So have you forgotten everything that already passed? It's passed for you both?

Kate: The only thing we can do now is look forward, you know, you know. There is lessons to be learned by everyone ourselves included, from what's happened. But, all we want to do is find Madeleine and the only way of doing that is by looking forwards and trying to be proactive and see what we can do now, which is why this message has gone out today.

Sandra: Did you go back to work? Are you working already?

Kate: I am working full time in the campaign to find Madeleine. I am looking after Sean and Amelie.

Sandra: You don't have any plans to go back to the clinic?

Kate: No I don't, no I don't

Sandra: You don't. And talking about the twins. Now the time is passing. Two years and a half since Madeleine disappeared. They are growing up. How will you be able to explain them what happened one day they have the age to really understand it?

Gerry: It's like filling in a picture for them with the information we have available and we will give them as their minds inquire, and as they are able to handle that information, then we will answer all of their questions openly and honestly.

Sandra: But what will you tell them

Gerry: Well, we will answer the questions. So what they ask us we will tell them. And we tell them exactly what happened and what information we know. And what we do know, is that we are continuing to look for their sister. They want people to look for their sister.

Sandra: But will you go into details about what happened?

Kate: We will be led by them. We have had avice from a child psychologist and they said Sean and Amelie would lead the way. If they ask a question answer them honestly. We are not gonna rush them, but if they ask something, then obviously we will answer them.

Sandra: They are in the same school where Madeleine was?

Gerry: Well she didn't get a chance to start yet so, she was there, her place is there, and the twins are there now.

Sandra: The room, Madeleine's room is still the same?

Kate: The bedroom? Yeah, it's quite a few more presents in it now, but yeah, it's still the same.

Sandra: And what do you keep telling the twins whenever they ask for her? I presume that they ask about her a lot of times?

Kate: Well they know she is missing, you know, and they know we are looking for her, and they also say things to me like, if they see things like a Madeleine sticker or a poster, they say "look Mummy they are helping to find Madeleine with us", and they might point at other people saying "Mummy are they helping us to find Madeleine?" and you know, so *shrugs*

Sandra: Is it still very hard for you or are you getting used to this reality? Are you trying to live with it?

Kate: You have to, I think, you have to adapt and you have to function. And if we want to look after Sean and Amelie, and if you want to search for Madeleine, then you have to function. Erm. I am obviously stronger than I was say a year ago, and, obviously the emotion is still there...but...

Gerry: Well we do as much as we possibly can to ensure that the twins see us happy, and see us happy with them, and they give us a tremendous amount of joy, and our life, you know, on a day-to-day basis superficially would look like any other family with two young children. Obviously one of our children is missing. And they know that and they know that that's not good and they want her back and they understand why on occasion, you know, that we are particularly upset and... we all want Madeleine back to be a complete family again, but the twins are coping fantastic...

Sandra: You told me once that you are both living a nightmare. In your more optimistical perspective, what do you imagine, what do you think, it could be the best way to recover Madeleine.

Gerry: I think, the first thing today is that this message, it can be downloaded and distributed, be heard and seen by someone who knows, and it well tweak their conscience and get them to give information to bring Madeleine back.

Sandra: The last lead that you have shared with us was about a women in Barcelona. Has this anything to do with this appeal?  Is it for that, that you are asking the relatives of people that can be involved in her disappearance, to call you?

Gerry: I think the first thing to say is that the investigation is to be dealt with by professionals and obviously we have got David Edgar working for us or law enforcement as a project. Today is about this appeal. It is completely separate. It is going out in seven different languages, we want it to be spread as far and as wide as possible because we don't know where Madeleine is and we don't know who took her and that's why we need the public's help to spread the email, an email to all your contacts. I know you have already done it, Sandra.

Sandra: Thank you very much to you both.

[Acknowledgement Joana Morais]

Matthew Baggott former Chief Constable of Leicester Constabulary at the time of Madeleine McCann's disappearance.  His evidence under oath at the Leveson Inquiry.

Question:  The Inquiry understands that you were Chief Constable at the time when Madeleine McCann was abducted in Portugal. The Inquiry is interested to know how relationships with the media, both local and national, worked during this time. Were changes in procedures made as a result of the very large amount of media interest in the story? Was pressure put on your personnel by the media? Are you aware of any personnel leaking information to the media at this time, and if so, was disciplinary action taken?

Matthew Baggott:  The investigation into Madeleine McCann’s disappearance began on 3 May 2007 by the Portuguese Authorities. On 4 May 2007, Leicestershire Constabulary took up a liaison role with the Portuguese Police to assist them in their enquiries. On 8 May 2007 Leicestershire Constabulary was asked to co-ordinate the UK response to assist the Portuguese enquiry on behalf of the UK Government and Association of Chief Police Officers. The Gold Strategy set on this date established that it was a Portuguese-led enquiry and that all actions would comply with requirements of Portuguese law including their Judicial Secrecy Act.

 As a result of this strategy, apart from one press  conference, which was requested by the Portuguese authorities, Leicestershire Constabulary made no comment to the media in relation to the investigation and strict information security was applied to ensure that the rights of all parties and the interests of the Portuguese Police were protected. However, Leicestershire Constabulary did respond to media enquiries over our role in the investigation in confirming details that were subject of public record. This included the number of officers in various roles and the financial cost of our involvement.

Due to the unprecedented media interest in the UK, a co-ordination group was set up on behalf of law enforcement agencies and  government departments to coordinate the media interaction and ensure that a consistent stance was taken. This co-ordinating group was chaired by the Head of Corporate Communications from Leicestershire Constabulary.  That group has continued to meet as required since 2007.

Throughout the enquiry there was intense local, national and international media interest and speculation over every element of the investigation. Leicestershire Constabulary received 53 FOI requests, one of which was repeated on 15 occasions, many of which came from the media.  As a direct result of this and the impact that it was having on the investigation Leicestershire Constabulary developed a Freedom of Information Publication Strategy.  This provided clarity about what information would be published, and at what time and to minimise the number of requests made. The fact that we developed this publication strategy became a national news story in itself.

The intense media interest meant that thousands of sightings were generated world-wide many of which were reported to Leicestershire Constabulary - each needing operational time to properly address. The Portuguese authorities informed us that this was directing attention away from their core lines of enquiries.

Due to the vast quantity of local, national and international media that descended on the village of Rothley, Leicestershire, where the McCann family live, a large policing operation had to take place to ensure that villagers were able to go about their daily business. We did have complaints from local residents about the media’s behaviour.

Whenever any event took place in Leicestershire relating to the investigation this again attracted huge interest to the extent that specific policing arrangements had to be made with the local airport, hotels and venues for the meetings to ensure there was no intrusion from the media.

Due to the thirst for information from the media, every individual working in Leicestershire supporting the Portuguese investigation signed a confidentiality agreement. Messages were also disseminated to all staff to make them aware that even private conversations with friends could be reported on in the media.

In the Autumn of 2007 there was extensive conjecture about the investigation which led me to write to all editors on two occasions (copies attached) imploring them not to speculate around the investigation because of the implications it may have for the enquiry. On each occasion I emphasised the importance of focusing in on the search for Madeleine rather than any other issue. As a result of continued conjecture by one Sunday paper, Leicestershire Constabulary filed a complaint with the Press Complaints Commission. The outcome was that the paper in question agreed to make a note on their file.

During the investigation the media quoted, who they claimed to be, unnamed Leicestershire police sources. These comments reported by the media bore little resemblance to the facts. However, Leicestershire Constabulary did conduct an enquiry to establish if any police employee could be identified as leaking information to the media. No such person was identified.

Although I am no longer Chief Constable of Leicestershire Constabulary, I am informed that almost five years on there is still speculation within some news media about Madeleine’s disappearance and that a number of groundless assertions continue to be made about the enquiry and the actions taken by Leicestershire Constabulary, UK Law Enforcement and the Police Judicaria.

Chief Constable Matthew Baggott - Transcript of interview for the Leveson Inquiry [McCann related only]

Lord Justice Leveson:   Could I take you away from Northern Ireland for a moment, because it's on this very point that I'd be very grateful for your help, and I'm sorry if you've not received notice of this, because it's only when I noticed Leicestershire that it came back to me.

Mr Baggott:   Yes.

Lord Justice Leveson:  I heard evidence from a gentleman called Jerry Lawton, who spoke about part of the McCann inquiry, and I won't talk about what he was responsible for publishing, that's another matter entirely, but he raised a criticism, or I'm going to call it a concern, that the Portuguese police were leaking information about the results of their DNA work through the UK, which implicated or was said to implicate the Drs McCann with the hire car -- you'll know the point.

 Mr Baggott:  Nods head.

Lord Justice Leveson:   And it later of course transpired the results didn't prove that at all. He was saying the Leicestershire police knew perfectly well that the results didn't demonstrate that and therefore, really, this was an ideal opportunity off the record, unattributably, to say, "Don't go there. This rumour, this leak, if it is a leak, simply is not right."

Now, it's a unique situation which will probably never happen again, and I'm very conscious that it won't necessarily help me in resolving the issues I have to resolve, I recognise that, but given that you're here, I have been concerned that the Leicestershire police haven't had the chance to answer that.

Mr Baggott:  Thank you.

Lord Justice Leveson:     If you can, I'd be interested. If you say, "I think I should but I'd like to go back and think about it first", I'm very comfortable for you to do whatever you think is best.

Mr Baggott:    Thank you, sir, for the opportunity to answer that. I do acknowledge, as you say, the uniqueness of that very difficult and sensitive and ongoing inquiry, and in relation to some of the difficulties faced by the press in dealing with a foreign jurisdiction.

But as a chief constable at the time, there were a number of I think very serious considerations. One for me, and the Gold Group who were running the investigation, which was a UK effort, was very much a respect for the primacy of the Portuguese investigation. We were not in the lead in relation to their investigative strategy. We were merely dealing with enquiries at the request of the Portuguese and managing the very real issues of the local dimension of media handling, so we were not in control of the detail or the facts or where that was going.

I think the second issue was there was an issue, if I recall, of Portuguese law. Their own judicial secrecy laws. I think it would have been utterly wrong to have somehow in an off the record way have breached what was a very clear legal requirement upon the Portuguese themselves.

There were two issues for me which really focused around the integrity of their investigation and maintained the integrity of our response.

There was also an issue for us of maintaining a very positive relationship with the Portuguese authorities themselves. I think this was an unprecedented inquiry in relation to Portugal. The media interest, their own reaction to that. And having a very positive relationship of confidence with the Portuguese authorities I think was a precursor to eventually and hopefully one day successfully resolving what happened to that poor child.

So the relationship of trust and confidence would have been undermined if we had gone off the record in some way or tried to put the record straight, contrary to the way in which the Portuguese law was configured and their own leadership of that.
We wanted to focus the media away from the speculation and the unfairness of that and into the search for Madeleine.
So there was a number of complex things running at the same time, but even with the benefit of hindsight, sir, I'm still convinced we did the right thing and I think integrity and confidence, particularly with the Portuguese, featured very highly in our decision-making at that time.

Lord Justice Leveson:  All right. I wanted to give you ..

Mr Baggott:  Thank you, sir.

Lord Justice Leveson:    ..now I'd made the link, the chance to deal with it.

Mr Baggott :    Thank you.

Ms Boon:   Mr Baggott I would like to take you back to what you say in your statement about the McCann investigation but just before I do, if I can ask you about the question of leaks. You say in your statement that you take unauthorised disclosures of information very seriously.

Mr Baggot:  Yes.

[later in the hearing]

Ms Boon:  I said that I would return to the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, Mr Baggott. You deal with this at question 50 of your statement. That's at page 55407. There are two paragraphs I believe you've already covered, setting out that it was a Portuguese-led inquiry.

Mr Baggott:  Yes.

Ms Boon:   And a decision was made at an early stage that you would comply, or the police in this country would comply with the requirements of Portuguese law, including the Judicial Secrecy Act.

Mr Baggott:  Yes. 

Ms Boon:  Over the page on 55408, internal numbering 24, third paragraph down:

"Due to the vast quantity of local, national and international media that descended on the village of Rothley, Leicestershire, where the McCann family live, a large policing operation had to take place to ensure that villagers were able to go about their daily business. We did have complaints from local residents about the media's behaviour."

I wanted to ask you what those complaints entailed, what they were about?

Mr Baggott:  I think there was a variety of complaint around disruption to daily life, which was caused by a large international media descending for the long term and the disruption that caused to people's business.

Secondly, if I recall, the intrusiveness of asking residents about their thoughts and what had happened, and a degree of speculation. So it was not only a physical presence and the requirement of having to preserve people's quality of life, but on the other hand the media in going and asking questions.

Ms Boon:  You wrote a letter to editors that's at tab 10 of our bundle, 55383. Amongst who was this circulated, this letter?

Mr Baggott:   If I recall, this went to all the prominent editors. I can provide, I'm sure, a written record of who it went to, if you should so choose.

Lord Justice Leveson:   Don't we need to go to the next one first, because it's chronologically first in time?

Ms Boon:    It is, sir, that's quite right. The first one is page 55384, tab 11.

Mr Baggott:    Thank you.

Ms Boon:    "Since the beginning of May 2007 my force, Leicestershire Constabulary, has had the responsibility for co-ordinating the UK law enforcement response to Madeleine McCann's disappearance. As the Chief Constable I have become increasingly concerned regarding the continued speculation and rumour surrounding this investigation, hence this exceptional request of you.

"I would be most grateful if you could ensure restraint in reporting on the case while the Portuguese authorities complete their inquiries and conclude their judicial processes. Over recent weeks I have been surprised at the reporting of some alleged facts that, as far as I am aware, bear little relation to the evidence. I am deeply concerned at the implications that this may have for all involved.

"Recent reports have quoted anonymous Leicestershire police sources. I am confident that the very few officers who know the detail of the inquiry have not and will not divulge confidential detail to the media, nor do they brief others who have provided specialist assistance or who have a legitimate interest in the inquiry.

"I know you will appreciate that the implications of Portuguese judicial secrecy mean that we are not in a position to release information, brief the press on the investigation's progress, or confirm or deny any specifics relating to the case.

"At the heart of this inquiry is an innocent little girl who went missing on 3 May. Our focus remains on doing everything in our power to assist the judicial police and the Portuguese authorities to find out what has happened to Madeleine."
I won't read out the letter on 8 October, but that's a repeat of that request, is it?

Mr Baggott:   Yes.

Ms Boon:  What response, if any, or reaction did you get to those letters?

Mr Baggott:   If I recall, there was one complaint made to the Press Complaints Commission, which resulted in a noting of the file, but the speculation did continue in spite of the first letter, and then I felt obliged to write the second letter, again appealing to the better nature of the media and to understand the complexity of this situation. So I think the fact that I wrote two letters is indicative of itself of the concerns of the UK effort to try and find Madeleine.

Lord Justice Leveson:   Ms Boon's question was what reaction did you get to these letters?

Ms Boon:   Yes.

Mr Baggott:    Not hugely positive, because the speculation continued.

Lord Justice Leveson:    And you say you filed a complaint to the Press Complaints Commission. Would Leicestershire have that, both the complaint and their response?

Mr Baggott:   I think we could provide it, sir. I shall make inquiries if that's what you wish.

Lord Justice Leveson:  I would like to see how the Press Complaints Commission dealt in writing with the complaint you made, if that's not inconvenient.

Mr Baggott:   Certainly, sir.

Lord Justice Leveson:   Thank you.

Ms Boon:   I have been asked by a core participant to ask you whether you felt that you had the necessary tools to prevent or at least object to the misreporting in the press about Madeleine's disappearance and Leicestershire police's involvement.

Mr Baggott:   I think there could have been a greater voice or a greater authority to explain the boundaries of what that press reporting should have been. The difficulty I think there is with this is it involves a European dimension as well as a national one, in which case -- but I think there could be some stronger guidelines and consequences.
That said, without going into the detail, I am aware that there were civil proceedings taken in the following months, which by themselves exercised a degree of constraint and control over the reporting.

Lord Justice Leveson:    Yes. The problem is: is that good enough? Because it may be that the Drs McCann can recover damages, but to such extent as damage has been done, the damage has been done.

Mr Baggott:   I think in this particular case, sir, the speculation, if it had been a UK court, may well have undermined the fairness of subsequent proceedings against whoever was charged with that offence, and secondly, it certainly hindered the inquiries to find and trace Madeleine simply because of the reaction that came from the media speculation.

Ms Boon:    I've also been asked by a core participant to ask you about the confidentiality agreement that you asked officers to sign. Do you feel that the signing of the confidentiality agreement added anything, because of course the people who were working for the investigation were already bound by a duty of confidence?

Mr Baggott:   The confidentiality agreement, just to give context, was something that was put together by the Gold Group who were running the inquiry as part of the UK effort, not by myself as chief constable.

Ms Boon:   Right.

Mr Baggott:   But my opinion would be it was a very good and a very clear way of asserting the seriousness of confidentiality, and also would give some degree of lever over the individual's behaviour and point out the consequences should they subsequently breach it, which I think would fit certainly today within the code of ethics.

Also there were other measures taken, which was the security of the investigative team itself and where information was actually held and who had that securely. So it wasn't just the confidentiality agreement by itself, it was other defensive measures to make sure that information was used wisely and only in the appropriate way.

But I do think the confidentiality agreement is in unique and exceptional circumstances a good way of making sure that the seriousness of the correct use of information is understood, but also there is a consequence should an individual decide to leak it subsequently.

Ms Boon:    That's a way of focusing the officers' mind on the confidentiality

Mr Baggott:   I think that's right.

Ms Boon:    ..the particular sensitivity, their particular obligation. The obligation applies always, but to remind them in that instance how important it is?

Mr Baggott:   It certainly is going the extra mile and I think it was a good thing to do.

Lord Justice Leveson:   It's not just how important it is, because it always is, but it also applies notwithstanding this is not a UK investigation.

Mr Baggott:   Yes.

Ms Boon:   Yes. Would there be any lessons learned from your experience dealing with that investigation that you would wish to share with the inquiry or have you covered everything that you wanted to say about it?

Mr Baggott:   I think the inquiry is ongoing. I think probably the lesson to be learnt is probably a greater understanding of the complexity and consequences of speculation and loose reporting of facts. And I think that's a serious issue for the press to consider, because in the PSNI I have an obligation under the Human Rights Act across the whole course of the human rights. I don't think some of this speculation was either necessary, it clearly wasn't on the boundaries of legality in relation to the subsequent proceedings. It certainly wasn't practical and it certainly wasn't proportionate.

I think sometimes there is a useful human rights template to apply to how the press use information. In this particular case, I think a greater understanding of consequence would have been appropriate.

Kate and Gerry McCann BBC Breakfast Show - 1st May 2008

Sian Williams : And to mark this anniversary her parents Kate and Gerry are making a fresh appeal for information to find her. They joined us now. Hello to you both ! Thank you very much for coming in.

Why the media blitz ? In the documentary last night, Gerry, you said the whole world now knows about Madeleine MC, so why are you appealing for more information, is there any more information ?

Gerald McCann: That's the.., I think there is more information. The problem we have is we've always said that we would leave no stone unturned and we don't know what information is in the inquiry, what is not in the inquiry, what has been done and what hasn't been done, errm I think it's unlikely everything has been done and we need to know that because it's our daughter, we strongly believe she's still out there. People may not have come forward before, they may have come forward the information may not be seen as relevant, so we really want to appeal to people and clearly there's going to be absolutely huge media attention on us and this is trying to capitalize on that and there's going to be media attention whether we participated or not.

BT : We had a lot of emails from viewers, some supportive, some critical, some asking questions we can put some to you if we may, but let's just feel (video repeat) that one asks many times and says I understand that you must have been asked this a million times but she wants to know as a mother of a young child herself why you felt it was ok to leave the children while you went out to have some food. It's a question that keeps coming back and I know you've answered it many times, but people still want the answer.

KM :  I think that's right, I think we have answered and errm personally I feel we have been persecuted enough about this matter, and we do that to ourselves so we don't really need to keep going over it and I've heard many times I couldn't love Madeleine more than I do I would have done anything, I had no idea that there was a risk.. And I can't say more, really.

GMC : And there are 2 things there, the first is we felt completely safe, if we had had any inkling that it was unsafe we wouldn't have done it, the second thing is that we can't change it, you know, what we have done as we discovered Madeleine was taken, and we have done anything there, you know, no matter how many times...

KM : (interrupting/speaking over) Let's not forget, let's not forget, you know, there has been an evil crime committed, you know whatever anybody says about us, is it right for somebody to go into your apartment and take your child out of her bed ?

BT : Do you think that's what happened because some people wonder is that what happened or is it possible that Madeleine woke up, was upset, went wandering looking for you and got lost that way...

KM : (interrupting, superior) I know, I know what has happened, I can't give too many details, can I, but I know my daughter, I know what I found and that's all I can say !

GM : I mean that's very important, we are in a very difficult situation, because the files are still under judicial secrecy, we're not allowed to let out investigational details and therefore there is a number of issues, the way the room was...

KM : And we know more than a lot of people actually (superior) standing up there, giving their opinions, we know more facts and a lot of people are just speculating.

SW : And you say that you can't tell us  those facts because you're still official suspects and still uninvolved...

KM : (speaking over, protesting) No, it's judicial secrecy, you know...

SW : You know, you said the night before Madeleine and Sean had been very upset and

KM : (speaking over) I didn't say that actually.

SW : That was in the statement wasn't it that was leaked out... Was that not the case ? Was she not upset the night before and talked to you the night before ?

KM : tries to protest.. despising

GM : (very calm) Errm, what we said was.. the next morning Madeleine had said "why didn't you come when we cried last night ?" and at the time we thought "that's odd" and we looked at each other and asked her directly what she meant and she just dropped and moved on. And we thought, when the time we've been (mumble) checking it would be exceptional for particularly the twins to cry and go back to sleep in between our checks so... Obviously kids cry all the time when they're bathed, when they're tired and when you're doing that now we did wonder when they were getting put to bed or around that time, and I think you have to remember that for us everything is seen in context with the abduction. And at that time we had a very relaxed family holiday and yes it was a little line there (? strange) but ...

KM : (interrupting) You know, hindsight is a wonderful thing. If what happened didn't happened we wouldn't, you know, it wouldn't have crossed our minds again that Madeleine was making that comment, because of what happened, suddenly it was significant and that's the reason why we told the police.

 BT : A lot of children are taking a close interest, are concerned with what happened. Ryan, 12 years old, asks how much it is affecting the other children, the twins, as you mentioned nearly three, a year on how staying strong for yourself and the children. The twins, what do they know about this ?

KM : I mean Sean and Amelie are amazing little people and, you know, they love Madeleine very much and Madeleine was with them for most of their life, you know, she's still very much in their life and they know she's missing and they know that everyone is looking for her, but as yet, you know, they're not asking more questions and to be honest we can't tell them really, because we don't know.''

SW : I just want to put that one as well. He is 13, he asks similar questions as the young people writing to us, so deeply concerned if you're happy, when you come home, what's happened to them asking their parents, all the time, you know, are we going to get more news about Maddie, you know that yourself, and then he says, if the twins do ask you where Maddie is or if they will ask you, what will you tell them, what, what form of words will you...KMC : We don't know, we don't know but we're looking for her, that's all we can say.

GM (speaking over) : They know errm people generally say she went missing and that we are looking for her. The fact that so many kids know about Madeleine is important to us, is actually because certainly in the States with information went out in posters it may be a child to recognize as Madeleine and they may see them through different ways, change their hair and different things like.., so that piece of information could well come from a child...KMC : And kids are amazing, I've had a 3 year old say to his mummy : "Mommy, that's Madeleine's mommy" and then I've had another little child pinpointing Amelie and saying "Mom, that's Madeleine". So the children are actually very perceptive...

SW : (interrupting) It makes some very worried as well, that's another thing, and although the campaign is really valuable in terms of getting more information, Caroline sends us an email saying that a lot of children are asking whether they're going to be abducted in the night and whether the parents are going to protect them, so in a way sometimes this is causing even more concern for children, however valuable it is, but can you see that difficulty with parents who are constantly having to ensure the children that they won't get snatched in the night ?

KM : I think every parent knows their child and knows what their child (smiling, superior) is able to take on board really and I think most parents find if they're honest with the children and reassuring...

GM : (interrupting and obviously stopping KMC) : Did that, I mean that situation there is very much, it's terrible we have to think like this and clearly where we were, at the time, in an environment it was the farthest thing from our mind and it's clearly brought this home, these crimes happen, they're more commoner than we think, a lot of crimes are unreported, may be possibly even underreported, in terms of professional recording, but clearly under reported in the media, and it's terrible, but that's a real life thing, these crimes are horrific, it's a crime and there's an abductor out there and he may strike again, I'm not saying everyone should think about that, clearly if you are in a locked apartment, in a house, there are people there, the chances are very slim and this is so real..

BT : (interrupting) Can I ask you a question about the police inquiry in Portugal, one or two things, have you been asked to take part in a reconstruction and under what circumstances would you go back ?GMC : There is a dialog and that's been reported errm clearly there's a day out there and it's under discussion and no final decision has been made, errm, and I have to say that the prospect of going back with the media trying to watch a reconstruction doesn't appeal us and our emotions, for us...to consider that.. I think there's also other issues.. KMC : (speaking over, inaudible).

GM : How much more information will that get us, one year on, you know, and we have told everything to the police.

KM : If we believed that it would help find Madeleine, but that's the issue really

GM : And our friends were voluntarily taking part recently in interviews in Leicestershire, they've given all the information and they had lots of opportunity and our friends stayed in Portugal for 10 days after Madeleine was taken.

SW : How much, what do you think the public is thinking when it comes to this case; I only ask because in the documentary last night you had these boxes with supportive letters and very unsupportive letters, really quite very nasty letters as well. Can you understand why people are so angry, I don't know, so angry about this and the fact that Madeleine went missing when you were on the night..

KM : (interrupting) I mean to be honest, a lot of the nasty ones (were) about that. We do get letters like that but some of the nasty ones are almost nasty for nasty sake and I think that has been incredibly shocking because we are not like that, we don't know people who are like that; it's quite, I suppose it's quite scary, a bit of an eye opener, really  how people could be filled with so much venom and whatever we do they'll write and criticize you know.

BT : It is, it is the way everybody in the public eye is going to get that (inaudible)
.
GM : (interrupting) The bottom line is that Madeleine is a four years old girl who's a victim, she's completely innocent and respect we are doing best to find her and to get information to help us find her and this is an international problem, it's an international inquiry, and we want people to come forward, whether or not they have done previously.

BT : Ok, just to balance things up because we have asked you some challenging questions, we have supportive emails, somebody saying "may I express my support for you both, I admire the way you cope with the publicity both good and bad like the true professionals you are". There are others who text me and say their prayers are with you on a daily basis.

G & KM : Thank you.

SW : Good luck, thank you very much for coming and if anybody had information there's that new number to contact the police (repeat twice the number) and as Gerry was saying it may have been a year on, but somebody might know something and however small it is, call that number and tell the police about it.

[Acknowlegment Anne Guedes for transcipt and Pamalam for hosting]

PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT:  Where is Madeleine McCann?  CNN Broadcast 11th May 2011

PIERS MORGAN, HOST: Tonight, vanished. The case that shocked the world.

GERRY MCCANN, MADELEINE MCCANN'S FATHER: The pain is never too far away from the surface.

MORGAN: On vacation in Portugal, Kate and Gerry McCann put their 4-year-old daughter Madeleine to bed and they never saw her again.

KATE MCCANN, MADELEINE MCCANN'S MOTHER: I don't know how much I love the children and there's no way I'd have taken a risk.

MORGAN: Four years later, after a global search, she's still missing.

G. MCCANN: Madeleine's still missing. And whoever's responsible for taking her are still at large.

MORGAN: Who took Madeleine? Is she still alive? If she is, will her parents ever find her?

K. MCCANN: It is wrong to give up on children who are still missing.

MORGAN: Tonight, Kate and Gerry McCann. Their hopes for Madeleine.

G. MCCANN: There's absolutely no evidence anywhere to suggest that Madeleine has been physically harmed.

MORGAN: And their darkest days.

G. MCCANN: At the lowest point, I thought our family was going to be destroyed.

MORGAN: Kate and Gerry McCann for the hour. This is a PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT exclusive.

Kate, Gerry, thank you for sitting down with me. Today is the eighth birthday Madeleine would have enjoyed had she been with you. We still have no idea where Madeleine may be or what's happened to her.

You've written a book, Kate, about your experience. It's based on diaries that you wrote from a few weeks after she'd vanished. Why have you done the book?

K. MCCANN: Of course my reason for writing it all down is quite different to the reason to publish it as a book. And initially when I started to keep my diaries, it was really so that Madeleine would have an account so when we found her, I'd be able to fill in the gaps. And also showing them for when they were older.

And then going back to 2008, I actually filled in the gaps before I started keeping my diary so a little bit about me and Gerry and our backgrounds. And again, that was all just for the kids.

And I suppose it's always been the urge to get the truth out there. When there's been so many stories written before we have things (INAUDIBLE). And ultimately, Madeleine's fund was running out. And I knew that we'd need to raise money really to continue the search.

MORGAN: So all the money from this book is going to -- actually to the Madeleine Fund.

K. MCCANN: I think so.

MORGAN: So that you can continue to try and find out what happened to her.

K. MCCANN: That's right.

MORGAN: Gerry, obviously, that is the crux of this, isn't it, for you?

G. MCCANN: Absolutely.

MORGAN: You just don't know. I mean I'm a father of three children. I cannot imagine -- now I can remember my kids disappearing for a minute or two minutes and that awful panic that you feel as a parent when that happens.

To be here, years later, and have no idea where she is or what may have happened, it must be excruciating, isn't it?

G. MCCANN: It certainly was. And I think one of the reasons we've had so much public sympathy and empathy is I think every parent does know that feeling when your child is out of sight even for a few seconds and the panic it generates.

And obviously, for any family like yourselves whose child has been abducted, it's the most terrifying experience. But you do adapt. And the pain is not as raw. But, you know, we do still manage to get some enjoyment in our life and we've got two other beautiful children who are fantastic.

And the support we've had from the public has really helped carry us through. But it's just always something inside and the pain is never too far away from the surface.

MORGAN: I mean, Kate, do you ever have a day where this doesn't consume you?

K. MCCANN: I don't think it consumes every minute as it did before. But certainly, you know, Madeleine's absence is there constantly. I mean, as Gerry said, although we do have lovely times with Sean and Emily, and although I've now reached that point where I will allow myself to take time out, and just relax and enjoy something.

And you know, her absence is still tangible. And we can have a lovely family day. But as Sean will point out, it's really not a family day, mommy, because Madeleine's not here. You know and --

MORGAN: Have you considered having another baby? Has that even entered your thought process?

K. MCCANN: No. I mean, I think you probably know obviously our three children were born with the help of IVF. And -- so it wouldn't exactly be straight forward anyway. But, you know, you can't replace Madeleine.

And I know you're not suggesting that but I don't know. I think all the grief that we've been through and the busyness of everything, and obviously we've got Sean and Emily that we need to concentrate on.

MORGAN: Do you both 100 percent believe she's still alive? Or do you have to believe that?

K. MCCANN: I don't think -- I don't think we can say 100 percent. I mean, you know, we're realistic. We know that there is a chance that she may not be alive. But what we do know is there's a very good chance that she's alive. And there's certainly nothing to suggest otherwise.

And as you know, as well as many children who are found years down the line, they could have been written off, you know. And then they were found. So it would be wrong -- you know, it is wrong to give up on children who are still missing.

MORGAN: I mean, what is so strange about this story, and I remember living through it here in England at the time, is there's just no evidence of anything. She just vanished.

G. MCCANN: Actually --

K. MCCANN: There was a man seen carrying a child away --

MORGAN: But we don't know who he was. We don't even know if that was Madeleine. It could have been anybody. I mean --

K. MCCANN: We don't. But nobody came forward to eliminate themselves.

MORGAN: Right.

K. MCCANN: And obviously the timing of it, you know. MORGAN: So you believe from all that you know that that shadowy figure that was seen with a young child was probably the abduction taking place? Is that what you think?

K. MCCANN: Yes.

G. MCCANN: Yes, completely. And I think, you know, another thing, aspect about the book, I strongly believe a good reason for publishing it is putting these facts together about the sighting of the man carrying the child and the detail of that, as seen by our friend, Jane Turner (ph). Jane hadn't seen him, she literally would have been plucked from thin air.

But there's another sighting which Kate describes in the book that occurred about 45 minutes later when an Irish family gave an almost identical description of the man and the child independently of Jane's. It wasn't in the public domain.

MORGAN: Let's get back to what happened. You were on holiday in Portugal. You were at a child-friendly resort. And at about 7:30, you were putting your kids to bed. You had the two 2-year-olds and you had Madeleine who was 4. Tell me what happened.

Gerry, you start.

G. MCCANN: Well, we've always had the routine with the kids. Twins usually went to bed about 7:00 and Madeleine used to have a little bit extra time as this was at home as well. And I'd played tennis that evening and Kate had got the kids ready.

So when I came back, pretty much took them into the bedroom, read them a story and tucked them into the cots for the twins and Madeleine into bed. And we'd arranged to have dinner with our friends. And literally dining in the tapas area which was adjacent apartment as (INAUDIBLE), so we're about 50 meters away. And -- which we've done the four previous nights as well, coming back and forth to check --

MORGAN: This remains one of the highly contentious parts of this. Because you're both professional medical people. And you've got three very young children. And I know that you've expressed regret over this. And I'm not after more of that. It'd be completely pointless.

In terms of the normal practice, though, when you were with them, would you ever have left them alone in that situation if you'd been at home, for example, back in England?

G. MCCANN: Definitely not. I mean, the closest thing that you would do to that -- it didn't feel that different -- would be dining in your garden.

MORGAN: I mean, Kate, as a mother here, you must live through that all the time. And beat yourself up. I've seen you do that and I've heard you do that. And my heart goes out to you because there's not a parent I know that hasn't mislaid a child at some stage. K. MCCANN: All I can say is if I'd ever thought there was any risk at all, you know, it just wouldn't have happened. And that's all I can say really, you know? And it's hard to, you know, sometimes to think at home when I was going to the post office and I had the twins in the double buggy because it wouldn't fit through the post office door, I used to get my aunt to come and meet me and just stand by the door even though it's a tiny post office and I could see the buggy so nothing (INAUDIBLE) with sort of how we act in Portugal.

And all I can say, it just felt so safe. You know it was a family-friendly resort. The first time that I've ever been to Portugal but all the family and friends we knew who had been there said it's, you know, a lovely country and it's really safe and it's for families.

MORGAN: I mean, Gerry, I mean, the difficult question, but obviously the resort you were in had lots of nanny facilities. And they weren't that expensive to use. And you both were professionals earning money.

Another criticism as put to you is why didn't you just pay to have a nanny if you wanted to go out to dinner?

G. MCCANN: Yes, I mean, it's not a question of money. We did what we thought was best in the kids' routines. And I think -- we had a very good routine in terms of the whole bath, bed story type thing. And I take your point. But for me, you know, if your children asleep upstairs in the bedroom and you are dining in the garden, you're out of sight and you can't hear them. And that's the similar thing to me.

(CROSSTALK)

MORGAN: You said -- I guess that most people's homes are secure.

G. MCCANN: Sure.

MORGAN: You know? This was not a secure property. People could come in and off the street if they wanted to. That's where the criticism I guess comes at its most fierce towards you is -- you know, you're intelligent people and you're certainly good parents, no one's questioning that from all accounts we've all heard.

It's just when you have people coming in and off the street like that, and it's not your home and it's not really secure.

G. MCCANN: Again, I mean, I think that it's back to the safety issue. We did not perceive an element of threat. And child abduction is so rare. Why would we have ever have thought that someone was going to go into our apartment and steal your child? It just didn't enter our head. If it had it wouldn't have happened.

(CROSSTALK)

K. MCCANN: We've been through all these questions day in, day out. Why, how, why. And I can only, you know, say to myself, well, you felt really safe. And I know how much I love my children. And there's no way I'd have taken a risk.

G. MCCANN: I think the worst thing, though, about the focus on our behavior and, you know, if we could change it, we would have. We can't change it. But it takes the focus away from the abductor. And that becomes quite frustrating for us because Madeleine is still missing. And those -- that person or those responsible for taking her are still at large, Piers, and you know that's --

MORGAN: Somebody somewhere knows what happened.

G. MCCANN: Yes.

MORGAN: And that must eat you up much more than, you know, fireside critics saying you should have done this --

G. MCCANN: Yes. You know it's not like a double -- you know a double punishment, you know. We have expressed our regret. It doesn't change it, you know. And what we're trying to focus on --

K. MCCANN: I guess no one --

G. MCCANN: From day one is what we can do to find Madeleine and those responsible. And you know if we can go back and jumped in the (INAUDIBLE), we would be there.

K. MCCANN: (INAUDIBLE) I'd want to change what we did that night obviously, you know.

MORGAN: Do you have a lot of regret? Now looking back, obviously not just because Madeleine went, but do you think with hindsight, you should have done more to protect them? Do you feel that?

K. MCCANN: Well, obviously, because of what's happened, you know. And I beat myself up every day but I can't change it now. I have to go forward and see what I can do now.

G. MCCANN: We have to be careful as well. Because I think, you know, almost certainly if we had been dining on the balcony of the apartment, this would not have happened. I'm absolutely clear about that. But child abductions do happen when parents are with their children. People are stolen in resorts and in parks.

And there was a case in the UK a few years ago where a little child was (INAUDIBLE) stolen out of the bath while her parents were in the living room. So you know -- we made the mistake but the crime is the person taking the child. And, you know, it's incredibly rare but that's the focus. And that person could strike again. And we need to find them.

MORGAN: Want to take a short break. When I come back, I want to talk to you about the moment you discovered that Madeleine had gone.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MORGAN: What was the exact moment -- let me ask you, Kate -- when you realized Madeleine had gone?

K. MCCANN: Well, went back to do a check at 10:00 and I went through the patio doors at the back. And I listened for a minute in the living room. And it was all quiet. I just noticed that the door to the children's bedroom was quite far open. And we always leave it just so it's slightly ajar, just to let a little bit of light in.

And I thought to myself, did Matt leave the door open at half nine? Matt checked on the half nine. And I thought, that must be what happened. So I went to close over the children's door.

And just as I was about to close it, it kind of slammed. Like a gust of wind had shut it. Then I thought I'll leave the patio doors open. So I just checked and they were closed. And then I went back just to open the door again a little bit. And just as I was doing that I just -- I just glanced at Madeleine's bed which was by the wall. And it was really dark and I couldn't quite make her out.

But I just kept looking for what felt like minutes thinking, you know, where is she, you know? It seems dark now because normally you'd think I'd put the light on. But in fact it's that in built thing of don't wake the kids up. And then I looked and realized she wasn't there. And I thought, had she gone through to our bedroom? And you know that would explain why the door was open as well.

So I just quickly looked in our room. And she wasn't there. And that's probably the first time that panic starts to build. So I'm back into her room. And just as I did that, it was the curtains which were closed just kind of blew open. And (INAUDIBLE) I noticed that the shutter was open. The window was open.

MORGAN: And what did you think in that moment?

K. MCCANN: I thought someone's taken her.

MORGAN: You went down to tell Gerry straight away?

K. MCCANN: Yes. I just basically and quickly whisked around the apartment, like 15 seconds. I don't know why. In my head, I was just thinking if someone's been in and she's cowering somewhere I guess is why I did it. And then it just flew out through the back, down the stairs to the restaurant.

And as soon as the table was in sight, I just started screaming, Madeleine is gone. And then they all jumped up and we heard a neighbor saying, she must be there, she must be there. But obviously I knew.

MORGAN: And, Gerry, this is every father's nightmare. Every mother's nightmare. But as a father, a young girl, and she's gone. What are you thinking?

G. MCCANN: The first thing that went straight through my head and I think -- it was just disbelief. I said, she can't be there, she can't be there. And I was running to the apartment with Kate. And I've checked. And she said, I've checked, I've checked, she's not there.

And I ran into the bedroom. And I found it just as Kate described. And when I saw that window pushed wide open and the shutter up, which we'd left down the whole week, it was horrible. And I -- lowered the shutter and I went through the front door. And I was able to lift the shutter from outside which --

MORGAN: Do you know that yet? Do you know -- is there any evidence how this person came in the room?

G. MCCANN: I mean no doubt, there are a number of options. And --

MORGAN: No, actual evidence. There's nothing they could find to say this is unequivocally how this person came in?

G. MCCANN: No. I mean, it's possible they came through the window. They could have come through the patio doors, although that was in sight of where we were dining. So I think that's probably less likely. For all we know, they could have had a key, you know, lots of people stayed in that apartment over years to the front door --

(CROSSTALK)

MORGAN: There was a report that that morning Madeleine had asked you why you didn't come when she'd been crying. Did that set alarm bells off when she did that?

K. MCCANN: Well, it's one of those things. There's no hindsight. But at the time when she said it, you know, it did -- you know, we were saying, what do you mean, Madeleine? You know kind of -- we were trying to think, you know, was she upset at that time, you know, her bath time.

And we kind of pressed her a bit. And said, when was this. And she just dropped it and carried on playing. And at that point, I'm thinking, oh, god, I hope she didn't wake up, you know, in between our checks. I would hate to think that could have happened and she'd worry we weren't there.

But at the same time, that didn't to me, just seemed a little bit odd because yes, it could happen but it just seemed a bit of a coincidence that we'd check, leave, she's wake up, get herself back off to sleep, which kids don't often do.

G. MCCANN: Like Sean.

K. MCCANN: And she's sleep again before the next --

MORGAN: Do you have any blame that you would attach to the resort itself? Now given the time that's gone past?

K. MCCANN: No. I mean, I think -- you know, the person to blame is the person that's taken Madeleine. There's no doubt about that. And it's like (INAUDIBLE) the decision we made. You can argue well, maybe we should have known about burglaries. Maybe that would have changed our behavior. And --

(CROSSTALK)

MORGAN: Have there been a number of burglaries there?

K. MCCANN: Yes. There's been quite a lot of burglaries.

MORGAN: Do you know how many there have been now? Do you know all the figures for that?

G. MCCANN: No, we're not sure. I mean it's difficult because we didn't have access to the crimes, and things of that. We know of other people contacting us saying the apartment had been burglared (ph) in.

MORGAN: One of the real frustrations for you is there's these two investigating authorities. One in Britain, one in Portugal. Do you think there is a missing link here? Do you believe that if enough time and money and resources devoted to this, that there's some stone that's been left unturned in this investigation?

G. MCCANN: I'm absolutely certain that there are things that could be done based on the information that's available to us. There are multiples leads and lines of inquiry which we think could be explored further. Based on what is in the Portuguese file.

And I think it's critical really that for any major serious unsolved crime, certainly in the UK, a review would be a routine procedure. And that's when someone else comes in and looks at what's been done. And that hasn't been done within Portugal.

MORGAN: When the police turned up, what was their initial behavior like towards you? We know that things turned pretty unpleasant quite quickly. But when they first arrived, Kate, were they sympathetic? Were they helpful? What was the mood like?

K. MCCANN: The first police that turned up were what we call G&R police. They weren't the criminal police of Portugal. Of course we didn't -- we didn't know the different kind of categories and especially got to bear in mind that we have the language barrier and so it's incredibly, incredibly difficult.

And I guess my biggest concern -- and it's hard to know if this is because interpretation, I didn't feel the sense of urgency as much as I'd like them to. And obviously, I knew my child had been taken. And it's quite hard to get somebody else to believe that. And --

MORGAN: Did you think -- did you think, Gerry, from the start that they were suspicious of you?

G. MCCANN: Certainly. And the next day, I know that we as the parents, and being there, and the last people to see Madeleine, that we'd be investigated. I think anyone who's got an inkling of any sort of police type investigation knows that's going to happen. So, you know, we went in and gave statements and were happy to help. And things like, you know, both the information we gave about Madeleine and what she said that morning. We gave all this information. That's exactly what we've done in the hope that it would help.

MORGAN: Has there ever been any discrepancy between anything that either of you has said? Any of your friends that were you that night? Has there been anything that if an outside lawyer looked at this, they would say, that doesn't add up?

K. MCCANN: You have to remember, there were nine people in the party here who didn't expect anything of this kind to happen. You know so if you're talking about inconsistencies of time, being off five or 10 minutes, then I think that's to be expected. I think that'd be normal. I think if it was all, you know, tightly to the minute that would be more suspicious. But there's no major --

G. MCCANN: I think one of best examples of an inconsistency is when I came out of the apartment having checked Madeleine about five past 9:00, and I was going back to the tapas area and I saw one of the guys who I played tennis with. And he was walking up the opposite side of the door to put his child, and Jane walked up and saw us.

But I'm adamant that it was on the other side of the road and Jane's adamant and in fact the other guy were adamant. So (INAUDIBLE) side of the road. So two people saying one thing, I'm saying another. The key thing is, it happened. And I can't say (INAUDIBLE), you know, my memory says it was the other side of the road.

The British police are pretty clear about this. That you get these sorts of inconsistencies all the time because no one's writing down as you're sitting up.

(CROSSTALK)

MORGAN: And also as Kate said, if it was all completely in agreement about every tiny detail, that to me would seem more suspicious.

G. MCCANN: Yes, absolutely.

MORGAN: When we come back, I want to talk to you about the moment that you realized the first time that the Portuguese police were not looking for anybody else in connection with Madeleine's disappearance. They were looking at you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MORGAN: When the mood began to change, massive media attention. A lot of criticism against the Portuguese police and authorities for not move quickly enough, not doing their job properly, and they retaliate, it seems to me, or they respond -- let's be polite here -- in the worst possible way as far as you're concerned.

They make you formal suspects. Arguido. What was the moment like for you when you heard that was happening? Because that completely changed things.

K. MCCANN: I think this had gone on probably from the end of July into August really. And there's certainly change in the media coverage. And it was obvious that things have been leaked. Stories were being leaked to the media to smear us essentially or to show us in a negative light.

And that's the thing we still have to sense, the hostility. And that coincided with the time where suddenly our communication, our meetings with the police, stopped. So not only were we having to face all that negativity and lies, and we're also left in this void of information. And we found out that we were going to be made arguido.

MORGAN: That must be the worst moment of all, other than the moment you know that Madeleine's gone, to have somebody look you in the eye and effectively say to both of you we think you killed your daughter. That's a terrible moment, isn't it?

K. MCCANN: I just thought, what is going on here? You know, but you're right, nothing is worse as the first night but it just felt like we were about to get destroyed at that point.

G. MCCANN: Yes. I think the realization was a particular problem for Kate, that effectively there was no ongoing search because there is clearly a strategy where the public were being led to believe that there is evidence that Madeleine was dead. And that simply wasn't the case.

MORGAN: Gerry, you kept remarkably calm. That almost played to your disadvantage. People thought, why is he being so calm? Had you been hysterical, they'd say, why is he being so hysterical? You can't win in that position.

G. MCCANN: You didn't see me behind the scenes.

MORGAN: But you were remarkably calm. I mean, if I'd been in your shoes and I've being accused of something I -- I think would have freaked out.

How did you manage to keep your composure?

G. MCCANN: I think the key thing is -- I mean, as I say, behind the scenes --

K. MCCANN: He's probably very different. I mean, I saw my husband on the floor crying his eyes out, you know? And so I think --

G. MCCANN: I mean at that point, at the lowest point, I thought our family was going to be destroyed or the potential for it to be destroyed was there. They're ultimately -- and protect them and you're tired and you're doing that. You come back and the overwhelming objective that we have is to find Madeleine, and what you need to do to get through that and to keep that search going.

But, I mean, we should be clear, there was no formal accusation. We were never arrested. There were no charges. And the arguido thing literally is -- you know, is translated at suspect. But it would be -- you could argue if we'd been made arguido on day one, because they had to ask us some questions which might incriminate you, that would have been fine and they -- I guess I said if we have to start from square one again, you know, bring it on and we will be there and do it.

But there was clearly a portrayal in the media that there was evidence incriminating us. And you know, we were clearly suggested that if we confessed to hiding Madeleine's body then that would be the end of it.

MORGAN: Were you offered a specific deal like that? Were you offered if you'd -- if you accept that you did this, you can go to prison for two years and be out?

K. MCCANN: Yes.

MORGAN: That is what I read. Is that true?

K. MCCANN: It's true. I mean, it's hard because nobody likes to be called a deal. But indirectly it was put to us that if we confessed to hiding Madeleine's body -- so not killing her but accidental death -- if we confessed to hiding the body, then it would be a non-custodial service, two years.

And Gerry could go back to work, we were told. And that was just crazy.

You know the hardest thing, I should say, about the arguido was the realization suddenly that no one was looking for Madeleine, because they if they were looking at us and focusing all their attention and resources on us or trying to find stuff against stuff us, then who was looking for Madeleine?

So I was angry. I mean, I'd gone from kind of this downward spiral in July, when nobody was really speaking to us and August full of headlines. And suddenly I just felt strong, because I thought, no, I'm damned if this will happen to my daughter, you know? If they're not going to be there for her, then we have to fight for her.

MORGAN: Going to take another short break. When we come back, I want to talk to you about the fight that you then launched to try and find Madeleine, and what you think are the possible unanswered questions that need to be answered.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

K. MCCANN: We welcome the news today, although it is no cause for celebration. I can't describe how utterly despairing it was to be named arguido and subsequently portrayed in the media as suspects in our own daughter's abduction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MORGAN: That was just after you'd been informed you were no longer arguido, no longer a suspect, as they call it there. And whilst there's relief in your voice, Kate, there's also, I can tell, a real simmering anger. what did it do to your public opinion, particularly back home here, where it was such an enormous story? You were front page news for weeks after weeks after months after months. A lot of it negative, a lot of it pushing really hard, as almost as if some of the media wanted you to be guilty. I remember reading the headlines thinking, wow, they're pushing the envelope here. You're having to live in this country and you're having to live with being called arguido, suspects.

That must have been a pretty awful experience, wasn't it?

K. MCCANN: You know, it was a great story for the media. But, you're right. This was out life. We were having to live it, you know, and --

G. MCCANN: I think it's a bad episode from the media, you know, because obviously we took action against the "Express" and it was a last resort. But they were rehashing the headlines from months before over and over again. And we were prepared to cut a bit of slack around the arguido time.

We were declared arguido. These things were happening in Portugal. But, you know, months later -- and some of the stories were just completely fabrications. It was detrimental to the south.

K. MCCANN: I think the other important issue were the stories that were being put out there were implying that Madeleine was dead.

G. MCCANN: Yes.

MORGAN: Of all the mad cat theories -- and you must have seen more than anybody else. You must hear and see everything that literally comes out about this. Are there any that you think have any kind of credibility that you think should be really pushed further?

G. MCCANN: It's incredibly difficult, Piers, because if you speak to -- here on in the island, the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, who've got the most expertise in these types of stranger or stereotypical kidnappings. Well, (INAUDIBLE) says and (INAUDIBLE) says until you know who has taken your daughter, you don't know.

And you can think of a whole host of scenarios. And I think that he's given us some examples.

When Elizabeth Smart was abducted at knife point from her bedroom, which she shared with her sisters, he says there was no way we could have known that she would be living just miles from home. Jaycee Dugard -- I mean in all of these cases, who could have imagined that?

So we have got to be completely open-minded as to who's taken her and why. And I don't think we'll know until we find our person.

MORGAN: One of the things that stuck me in the book is your quite open account of what it's done to your marriage, this. I mean, do you feel that you've been quite fortunate to stay together? Do you think this could have split up many couples?

K. MCCANN: I think that's without doubt, really. I mean it's such a major event to happen to your life and the consequences and ramifications are massive. And we're very fortunate. You know, we had a strong relationship before. We've got a great family and really good friends who have supported us when everyone (INAUDIBLE).

And I should know the statistics will show that most marriages break down in circumstances like this.

MORGAN: I mean, at its worst, what's it been like trying to have a relationship through this?

G. MCCANN: It's been incredibly difficult. And I think, as you can see from the footage and other things, I found my feet much quicker than Kate and was able to put away a lot of the images of Madeleine and sort of compartmentalize them and almost take a conscious aspect that thinking about the worst wasn't helping me, and it wasn't helping the search.

And there's been times where you are -- you're just managing to keep your own head above the water. And when you're trying to get support -- and this is a two-way thing and you didn't even -- I feel terrible now looking back, but there were times when I couldn't support Kate because I thought, I'm going to go under.

MORGAN: Did either of you ever get suicidal?

K. MCCANN: No. I mean, I don't think I was ever suicidal but I often wished my life would be over. You know, I'd never had planned anything or done anything. I knew that wasn't a possibility, that wasn't an option. But, you know, so much pain. I used to think about, God, let's just pull the duvet over and I won't wake up tomorrow.

MORGAN: Gerry, there have been times where he's been -- he feels bad now -- but being unable to support you. That must have been a particularly difficult period for you, when even Gerry couldn't seem to provide any comfort for you.

K. MCCANN: It was. I mean, you know, there were times when I just wanted to be held or something and -- but I -- equally I know that the times when I couldn't support my mom and dad, for example, and we've all suffered in this.

I guess you have to make sure that you're afloat in order to be able to support somebody else. You know, that works both ways. And we are very fortunate that we've had really close family that can support us at those times.

MORGAN: I'm going to have another short break. When we come back, I want to talk to you about the diary that you've kept and how cathartic that may have been for you, how helpful.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

K. MCCANN: We're doing everything we can, Madeleine, to find you. And with so many good and very kind helping us. Be brave, sweetheart.

Our only Christmas wish is for you to be back with us again. And we're hoping and praying that that will happen. I love you, Madeleine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MORGAN: How hard is it for you to see video footage of Madeleine, even now?

G. MCCANN: I think it's the one medium that really brings her back to me, in particular, seeing her moving and her voice. And it's our Madeleine as oppose to the iconic picture of Madeleine, the missing child. It's our daughter. And sometimes we just go and put the video on and sit and watch it with the kids, as well.

MORGAN: You're both religious people. You had a private meeting with the Pope. What was that like for you, Kate?

K. MCCANN: Well, at that point, it was just incredibly important. I mean, I truly believed that would make a difference for Madeleine. And I've often described it as the next step, really, the closest you can get to kind of meeting God in some way. And I just thought all my prayers, et cetera, would be channeled more quickly to God.

MORGAN: What did he say to you?

K. MCCANN: He just very simply took a photograph of Madeleine and placed his palm on it and blessed her. And he just said I'll continue to pray for Madeleine's safe return and for all your family.

MORGAN: Has what's happened to you damaged your faith?

K. MCCANN: It's challenged my faith. I mean, there's no doubt about that, really. I'm still, you know, I've still got my faith. But there have been times, and particularly back in 2008 -- was my worst year. I'm not embarrassed to say I felt angry with God. And I couldn't understand why all this happened, not Madeleine being taken, because I don't believe that was the will of God, but everything that had happened subsequently, and the fact that we just felt so many challenges, particularly in Portugal, where I felt we really needed help.

I really wanted someone to stand up and say, this is all wrong, we'll help you. And I guess, you know -- I threw that back at God, really, and said, why are you allowing all of this to happen, you know? We can handle so much, but this just seems too much.

MORGAN: Gerry, do you still keep Madeleine's room as it always was? G. MCCANN: Yes. There's a lot more stuff in it now. Lots of presents and things. But I've pretty much kept it. I'm like sentimental about it, I have to say. But Kate finds it particularly comforting in there --

K. MCCANN: And Sean and Amelie like going in. They always go in and say, can we borrow one of Madeleine's teddy bears and --

MORGAN: How have they dealt with it?

K. MCCANN: Brilliantly. We've always been as honest as we could be with them. And that was certainly the advice we were given.

MORGAN: What do they think happened to Madeleine?

K. MCCANN: Well, they know that a man has taken her. And they know that that's wrong. And they know that we're all looking for her, lots of people are helping us.

G. MCCANN: Looking at Sean and Amelie, though, you really didn't know that a major trauma has happened in their lives. They can talk about -- we were on holiday last week and meet little kids. And they talk about brothers and sisters, and they say, oh, we've got a big sister Madeleine but she's missing and we're looking for her. And they talk about the response.

MORGAN: Today would have been her eighth birthday. I mean, every part of you must be wondering what she looks like now, apart from anything else, how would you have celebrated today. I mean, do you commemorate the day? Will you do anything with the other two children? How do you deal with a birthday when she's not there?

K. MCCANN: Well, what we've done the last few -- few years, we have marked the day. I mean, we've had like a -- just a sort of small sort of birthday tea really with close family and friends. This year's obviously different with the launch of the book and stuff. So we're very busy.

I mean, it's hard -- I find it hard to think, well, I've got an eight-year-old daughter. You know, and as you say, what does she look like? And I do try and imagine her and make her taller and stuff. And -- but it's hard, you know, because we should be -- we should be with her, you know, celebrating her birthday together, so --

G. MCCANN: In many ways, I think launching a book today is a good thing to do on her birthday. It's doing something positive. It's reenergizing the search. We've launched the campaign, as she said, with News International to get a review.

And I think these are milestones that you pass and you know there's going to be media attention irrespective. So it's always a good time, from our point of view, to capitalize on that. We've just got to find her really.

MORGAN: After the break, we'll talk specifically about how people watching this can possible help you, and to see also where you think the focus of investigation should now be.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MORGAN: How can people help? If you're watching this interview and you're keen to try and help you in some way in the search for Madeleine, what is the most effective way that people can do this?

G. MCCANN: I think it's two things. One, read the book, "Madeleine." And our website has all the key information as well and contact numbers and key images. So that's www findmadeline.com. And there's lots of information through that.

People in the U.K. and Portugal, we want them to lobby their MPs and governments to conduct a review. And that's the call to action today really, to try and get that done.

MORGAN: Madeleine had a very distinctive eye pattern, didn't she? Tell me about that, Kate, in case people see somebody they think may be Madeleine. Tell me about her eye.

K. MCCANN: If I'm honest, we haven't put too much emphasis on her eye, because I think you have to be very close to her to see it. But her eyes are slightly different colors, and one of them has this brown fleck in it. But you do notice, particularly on photographs, but --

MORGAN: Slightly distinctive eye colors and a little fleck.

MORGAN: And do you know if that would be still there if she's now eight years old?

G. MCCANN: Certainly believe it wouldn't have changed. I think there's been a pattern to be still there. That it's -- the technical term is coloboma, where there's a defect in the iris. I don't think it is actually. I think it's actually an additional bit of color. She certainly had no visual problems.

MORGAN: If people see somebody they think could possibly be Madeleine, who should they call?

G. MCCANN: They should call the police, local police. You know, if they really think it is Madeleine and it gets addressed there and then. It's actually quite difficult if you get information coming in historically about sightings. So the advice is clear, is should be to call the local police.

K. MCCANN: But if they could call all options and let our investigation team know as well, that would be really helpful.

MORGAN: Have there been moments when you've been pretty much confident that you may have found her?

G. MCCANN: Never.

K. MCCANN: I don't think so. And I don't think we've ever allowed ourselves to go there. I mean, earlier on when there was the odd kind of -- what turned out to be a hoax call, you always have that real hope of this could be it, it could all just be over. But since then, because of the total and emotional roller coaster really that we've been on, you just try and hold back really.

And a lot of the pictures that we've been sent that have been looked at, you kind of know it's not, but you just need total verification.

MORGAN: Do you still talk to Madeleine? Do you still have any kind of conversation with her?

K. MCCANN: I do. I mean, I still go into her bedroom twice a day just to -- really just to open the curtains and stuff and close them at night, and I just have a little word to her. And I still keep my diaries, so --

MORGAN: Can you sleep OK now?

K. MCCANN: I can, actually, yeah. It took a long time, cause the nights were the worst. I mean, I still have the odd night where if she's very much on my mind and something's upset me then it's hard to sleep, but I'm sleeping fine now.

MORGAN: I mean, there have been -- as you said earlier, there have been cases quite recently of girls who just disappeared reappearing -- in Jaycee Dugard's case, 18 years later -- from captivity. When you see those stories, does your heart flip a bit? Do you think there's hope, or is it almost like a knife in your back that Madeleine hasn't?

K. MCCANN: I think, overall, it gives you hope. I mean, you know, obviously every day we hope that it's not going to be 18 years, as every parent would. But at the end of the day, it just highlights how easy it is for children to disappear off the radar and to turn up, you know, many, many years later. So, by that point, many people would have written that child off for dead and it just shows you how wrong you can be.

G. MCCANN: I think the strongest thing for us is the public consciousness that these sorts of abductions, children are found. And that is more important and it's really important not to give up on Madeleine.

You can't give up on them. You've got to keep her image out there. And who knows how she'll be found, whether it be recognized. Mostly we want to try and track the abductor.

MORGAN: I mean, there's a tiny chance, I guess, that Madeleine might be somewhere where she may see this interview. You never know. You don't know who she's with or where she is. If she was, what would you say to her?

G. MCCANN: I'd say, Madeleine, we're still looking for you and if you get a chance, tell the police who you are. MORGAN: Kate, what would you -- what would you say, if you had the chance?

K. MCCANN: I would just say, you know, we love you, Madeleine. We're not giving up. We're still looking for you. If you can, let somebody know, honey, and we'll get you home.

MORGAN: Well, I -- I just hope you keep the faith and that she turns up. I think everybody does. It's been a harrowing time for you. Can't even begin to imagine what you've been through, but I really appreciate you spending the time with me.

K. MCCANN: Thank you.

G. MCCANN: Thank you very much for having us.

Daily Telegraph Interview transcript - 1st May 2008

Gerry, talking about the launch of a new campaign, said: This is something we've been working behind the scenes. We knew there would be massive media attention and we wanted to capitalise on that.

The documentary is a platform and told a bit of a story about where we're at. We want to bring the focus back completely to what this is about – finding Madeleine.

Kate: There has been that much speculation. I find it upsetting for our family but it's upsetting for Madeline.

Gerry: There so much noise you can't tell the noise from the real messages. Any angle leads to column inches when it doesn't deserve it.

When you think about the last five months how much new information - there's very, very little and we need to focus is back on what people do know and what are the real issues here.

 Q: Is this the best hope now of finding Madeleine?

Kate: I'm not sure about that but the media interest will wane without any developments and I guess you've got to use this opportunity. We need that information and we strongly believe that information is out there, somebody knows something.

Dubbing today "May Day for Madeleine", Gerry said: It's the last chance to capture a lot of the information that's gone into the investigation that we're not privy to and clearly we need to know everything that's been done. What we're asking people to do is if you've given information to police, Crimestoppers, Portuguese police, we're asking you to give it to us as well.

We're a year down the line and seemingly no closer to finding Madeleine. We've got little bits of jigsaw but huge gaps.

We have set aside considerable resources on this task and we have processes set up and ready to go but of course we don't know what information has been generated.

I personally don't think running stories on Madeleine makes that much difference. Her image is everywhere.

It's about that key bit of information - someone has it but they might not necessarily put it together.

At this time, a year on, it's to try to jog people's memories. Portugal is a small country, she could have been moved, we've clearly got an international case and we're desperate for information.

There are people who haven't come forward who might have been involved on the periphery.

Q: When the arguido status is lifted will this story go away?

Kate: Being made arguido has not helped the search for Madeleine. I'm sure when the arguido status is lifted it will be a major development and huge headlines.

Q: There is lots and lots of media coverage but has it helped the searched?

Gerry: A lot of people think Madeleine is dead. Today is about us stating our absolute categoric belief that there is no evidence that Madeleine has been seriously harmed.

Q: How do you feel Madeleine?

Kate: It's a sense really, Madeliene is very close, it's kind of a sensation that she's there. You try and be objective and think that it's just because I'm her mum and because I want to believe.

Gerry: The more research we've done and the more we've looked into these types of cases the stronger my belief is now that there's a better chance Madeleine is alive.

The bulk of data is actually based from the US. From the 115-a-year stereotypical kidnappings by strangers 40-50 per cent are killed, which means that the majority are not killed. The younger the child the less likely is that child will be seriously harmed or killed.

Madeleine really is the right low limit. We've not said it's impossible. How many of the children who are never found and assumed to be dead are actually being brought up somewhere else? It's frightening to think of Natasha Kampusch (held for eight years) and Shawn Hornbeck (four years) and other kids...

Kate: The story in Austria shows how people can go off the radar. But they are still there and you owe it to that erson to keep looking.

It still give you hope, it's horrible to think of the length of time and stuff and you think of a year ago. Imagine what it would have been like to get to a year, it would have killed me. A few days at that point were forever but it [Elisabeth being found] gives you hope and it could be today, tomorrow or next week and you've got to keep hold of that hope.

Gerry: It all gives you hope. People want to help. She's a completely innocent child and surely we can find her if everyone pulls together. Whatever anyone thinks of the situation Madeleine is innocent and she's a child.

When we went to Washington and spoke to the people who had the most expertise we came out thinking she is out there.

Gerry: There's a really good chance she is still out there, based on years of experience of missing and abducted children

What Earnie Allen's (national center for missing and exploited children in Washington) exact words were are there are a host of scenarios by which Madeleine could still be out there.

The experts are saying there is a strong chance Madeleine is out there but its back to what we need to do which is address the situation: Who took her? Is that person alone? If they are alone they don't live in isolation, they live in a town, in a holiday resort, they interact with people and they might have accomplices we don't know what motivates them.

They have to shop, they have to buy things. People have got a description of a man. It's trying to find a link somewhere, we feel incredibly passionate about it.

Kate: Even people who are classed as loners are known as the loner down the road.

About Sean and Amelie:

Sean and Amelie talk about her constantly,. They include her in everything. They ask about her. They essentially still play with her and that's really heartening for us. A year down the line, our three-year-old twins still see it as that and if Madeleine walked in the door tomorrow they'd say which one do you want and play with her.

They would shout 'Madeleine's home, lets go and play'. She is still a huge part of their life and ours.

Explaining to them what has happened:

Kate: I've got my journal but we took advice and haev done everything that we thought was best for Sean and Amelie. A psychologist we spoke to said basically be honest. The problem is you haven't got a story to tell and can't fill in the facts.

Gerry: I hope she's back with us before they're of an age when they're on the internet and searching. We will face difficult decisions down the line and we are not forcing information on them.

As they ask the questions, they are being told straight and the situation now is still they know Madeleine is missing. They have some understanding of the concept of being lost and that people are looking for them and they say heartbreaking things to us like they're going to find Madeleine and bring her home.

Kate: They will say things like that because we talk about when Madeleine comes home.

About the new campaign:

Gerry: This is a local call number, no premium. It functions from abroad. My strong understanding is that will be a local call from abroad as well. People can leave information anonymously and we guarantee confidentiality.

Kate: We don't know what has been done and what hasn't been done (in the investigation). As parents not knowing what's being done, it gets to a time when we have to find out ourselves.

Gerry: We need to know and we want to know. The bulk of the information in the inquiry came from the UK. We knew there were thousands of leads that came through Crimestoppers and Leicestershire police.

The bulk of the people in Praia da Luz were British, Irish, Dutch and German. We need to co-operate with the authorities. We're not taking the law into our own hands. There will be jurisdictional issues.

We believe it's an international investigation and our investigation in independent. It's cross border and focused on finding Madeline.

Kate: We don't know what the Portuguese (police know)

Gerry: Who can object to us, a year down the line, diverting resources. It's a year. We're not being given information that people are under supervision - if so we'd be keeping very quiet.

People had a fair crack. We just want as parents to make sure everything possible is being done.

There's been a huge response. We don't know what came into Crimestoppers or Leicestershire. We have not had access and clearly we want access, what's been done and not been done.

Kate: We're not taking over the investigation but we're obviously trying to do something ourselves.

Gerry: We are running an independent investigation and we believe it is an international enquiry and we will direct as much resources as we've got available into following up every lead.

Any information coming in will be scrutinised, graded, followed up and acted on.

Kate and I have been working behind the scenes on this with a few core people to launch today. There has been a considerable degree of planning over several weeks.

We need every call. Every bit of information is important to us. Considerable resources are being directed into this.

We might be overwhelmed.

There might be multiple reasons why people have not come forward. In isolation it might not mean anything but it might when you look at the bigger picture.

Kate: I hope its not a bind for people and they will understand but can you give it again and there might be some key information in there. Maybe it might make this move.

Gerry: We have a right to information and what has been done to our daughter and if we are not given the information we will try and do anything. Anybody who has contacted any authority should contact us.

Q: How do you see her?

Kate: When you picture her it's memories. I don't speculate on what situation she's in. It's memories. I don't have any vision if where she is now.

I just sense her still being there. It's hard to explain really. It's a sensation, a feeling. It is comforting, very comforting, that she's that bit closer.

Kate McCann's arguido interview - 7th September 2007


Q:  On 3 May 2007 at around 2200, when you entered the apartment what did you see and do, where did you look, and what did you touch?

A:   No reply

Q:  Did you look inside the wardrobe in the bedroom? She said she wouldn't answer.

A:  No reply

Q:  (Shown two photographs of the wardrobe) Can you describe its contents?

A:  No reply

Q:  Why had the curtain behind the sofa in front of the side window (a photograph of which was shown to her), been disturbed? Had someone passed behind this sofa?

A:  No reply

Q:  How much time did you spend searching in the apartment after realising that your daughter Madeleine had disappeared?
 
A:  No reply

Q:  Why did you say from the start that Madeleine had been abducted?

A:  No reply

Q:  Assuming that Madeleine had been abducted, why did you leave the twins alone at home to go to the Tapas to raise the alarm, not least because the supposed abductor could still be in the apartment?

A:  No reply

Q:  Why did you not ask the twins at that moment what had happened to their sister, or why did you not ask them later?

A:  No reply

Q:  When you raised the alarm in the Tapas what specific words were used?

A:  No reply

Q:  What happened after raising the alarm at the Tapas?

A:  No reply

Q:  Did you have a mobile phone with you at that moment?

A:  No reply

Q:  Why did you go to warn your friends instead of shouting from the balcony?

A:  No reply

Q:  Who contacted the authorities?

A:  No reply

Q:  Who took part in the searches?

A:  No reply

Q:  Did someone outside the group learn, in the moments that followed, of Madeleine's disappearance?

A:  No reply

Q:  Did any neighbour offer you help after the alarm was raised about the disappearance?

A:  No reply

Q:  What did the expression "we let her down" mean?

A:  No reply

Q:  Did Jane tell you that she had seen a man carrying a child that night?

A:  No reply

Q:  How were the authorities contacted and which police force was alerted?

A:  No rply

Q:  During the searches after police arrived, in which places were Madeleine searched for, and in what way?

A:  No reply

Q:  Why did the twins not wake up during the search or when they went upstairs?

A:  No reply

Q:  Whom did you telephone after the discovery?

A:  No reply

Q:  Did you call Sky News?

A:  No reply

Q:  Did you know of any danger of calling the media alerting them of the abduction, since this could influence the abductor?

A:  No reply

Q:  Did you request the presence of a priest?

A:  No reply

Q:  In what way was the face of Madeleine, in photographs or by other means, released?

A:  No reply

Q:  Is it true that during the search you remained seated on Madeleine's bed in your room without moving?

A:  No reply

Q:  What was your behaviour like during that night?

A:  No reply

Q:  Did you manage to sleep?

A:  No reply

Q:  Before the trip to Portugal did you make a comment about a bad feeling or premonition about it?

A:  No reply

Q:  What was Madeleine's behaviour like?

A:  No reply

Q:  Did Madeleine suffer from any infirmity or take medication?

A:  No reply

Q:  What was Madeleine's relationship like with her brother and sister, friends and fellow pupils?

A:  No reply

Q:  Regarding your professional life, in how many hospitals and in which ones did you work?

A:  No reply

Q:  What was your speciality as a doctor?

A:  No reply

Q:  Do you work shifts in emergency wards or other departments?

A:  No reply

Q:  Do you work in the daytime?

A:  No reply

Q:  Why did you stop working at a certain point?

A:  No reply

Q:  Is it true or not that the twins have difficulty falling asleep, that they are restless and that this upsets you?

A:  No reply

Q:  Is it true or not that at certain times you felt desperate at your children's attitude and that this upsets you a lot?

A:  No reply

Q:  Is it true or not that in England you went so far as thinking about handing over Madeleine to a relative to look after?

A:  No reply

Q:  At home (in England) did you give medication to your children and what kind of medication?

A:  No reply

Q:  (Various films had been shown to her of the inspection by forensic dogs, where one can see their signalling indications of the scent of a human corpse and traces of human blood as well as the comments by the expert overseeing the exercise.) Having seen the film and after the scent of a corpse was signalled in her bedroom near the wardrobe, and behind the sofa by the window in the sitting room, Kate McCann said she could not explain anything more than she already had.

A:  No reply

Q:  She was asked about the sniffer dog that signalled human blood behind the above-mentioned sofa. She said she could not explain anything more than she already had.

A:  No reply

Q:  She was asked about the scent of corpse which was signalled in the vehicle she hired about a month after the disappearance, with number plate 59-DA-27. She said she could not explain anything more than she already had.

A:  No reply

Q:  When the presence of human blood was signalled in the boot of the same vehicle Kate McCann said she could not explain anything more than she already had.

A:  No reply

Q:  Confronted with the result of the sample of Madeleine's DNA, whose analysis was carried out by a British laboratory, found behind the sofa and in the boot of the vehicle, as previously described, Kate McCann said she could not explain anything more than she already had.

A:  No reply

Q:  Did you have any responsibility or involvement in the disappearance of your daughter Madeleine?

A:  No reply

Q:  Are you aware that the fact of your not answering the questions put to you jeopardise the investigation that was aimed at finding out what happened to your daughter?

A:  Yes, if the investigation thinks that.

Q:  Do you have anything to add?

A:  No

Interview concluded.

Gerry and Kate McCann interview with Fiona Bruce for the BBC's Madeleine McCann 10th anniversary production - May 2017


FB: Kate and Gerry, first of all, thank you very much for doing this interview. This is a very difficult time of year and it's the 10-year anniversary, obviously an anniversary you hoped you would never see.

KM: Yeah I mean I never thought we'd still be in this situation, so far along the line. It's a huge amount of time. In some ways it feels like it was only a few weeks ago, in other times it has felt really long. But it's a hard marker of time.

FB: And you've referred to it on your website as "stolen time"?

KM: Oh yeah, I mean it's time we should have had with Madeleine. We should have been a family of five for all that time. And yeah, it just feels stolen.

FB: And you can never have imagined, 10 years ago, that you would still be in this situation?

GM: I think the situation is that we tried everything in our power to not have a long protracted missing person case like this. It's devastating and we really threw ourselves into trying to do everything we could to help find her. It looks like that hasn't worked yet. But you know we are still looking forward, I think that's the most important thing - we still hope.

FB: And how are you doing as a family? The pair of you?

GM: I think we're doing a new normality, really, particularly over probably the last - and it seems like a long time saying it - but over the last five years. Since the Metropolitan Police actually started their investigation, it has taken a huge pressure off us, individually and as a family.

FB: Because before that you were trying to fight the case yourselves, trying to encourage the police to look for Madeleine, get the Portuguese police involved?

GM: Yeah I think the key thing was - and I suppose the injustice of it - was that after the initial Portuguese investigation closed, essentially, no-one, no-one else was actually doing anything pro-actively to try and find Madeleine. And I think every parent could understand that what you want and what we have aspired to is to have all the reasonable lines of enquiry followed to a logical conclusion as far as you can do that, and that was incredibly frustrating.

FB: You talked at the time about what a blow that was?

GM: It was terrible, it was horrible, and you know as much as we tried and (were) fortunate to have had so many donations into Madeleine's fund and to use that money to try and investigate, your hands are tied, you don't have the powers that law enforcement have.

FB: So how much of a difference has it made. So for the last five years, the police have actively been investigating?

KM: Huge.
GM: Absolutely huge, I mean I can't emphasise enough just what a massive burden that has lifted from us, and those around us, and also knowing that the lines of investigation have been prosecuted. I know the Assistant Commissioner, Mr (Mark) Rowley, spoke during the week, but you know a lot of those lines have been taken to a conclusion and that's almost as important as finding who's actually responsible but knowing that those lines have been shut down.

FB: And the police have talked about one significant lead they are still pursuing, can you tell me anything about that?

GM: The investigation is in the hands of the Metropolitan Police, who clearly have on-going inquires and from our perspective that's the important thing.

KM: They've managed to pull so much together and sift through so much information, so now we do seem to be on just several lines of enquiry rather than tens/hundreds.

FB: And there are four officers working on it full-time. You know there have been criticisms that the police shouldn't be spending so much money, still, so many years on, on this case, what would you say to that?

GM: I think some of that criticism is really quite unfair actually, because I know it's a single missing child, but there are millions of British tourists that go to the Algarve, year-on-year, and essentially you've got a British subject who was the subject of a crime and there were other crimes that came to light following Madeleine's abduction, that involved British tourists so I think prosecuting it to a reasonable end is what you would expect.

FB: But of course it doesn't happen, sadly there are so many children that go missing and the resources are not deployed on their cases?

GM: Others within law enforcement have made it very clear, this type of stranger abduction is exceptionally rare actually and we need to put it into perspective and it's partly why Madeleine's case is attracting so much attention, thrown in with many other ingredients, but this type of abduction is exceptionally rare.

FB: One of the police officers in Portugal has been a thorn in your side for many years, he was thrown off the investigation but then he wrote a book, presented a documentary, presenting of you of what happened to Madeleine which implicates you, and you fought it through the courts. At the moment you've lost and he's won, is this the end for you now, are you going to continue to fight him?

GM: I think the short answer is we have to because the last judgment I think is terrible. So we will be appealing. We haven't launched that yet, but it will be going to the European courts. I think it's also important to say that when we lodged the action was eight years ago and the circumstances were very different where we felt there was real damage being done to the search for Madeleine at that time, particularly in Portugal.

FB: Because he was effectively suggesting that you were involved?

GM: I think, you know, what people really need to realise though is, you know, as Assistant Commissioner Rowley has said again this week, and the Portuguese have said in the final report - have said there's no evidence that Madeleine is dead and the prosecutor has said there's no evidence that we were involved in any crime and really that's - saying anything opposite isn't justice, it's not justice for Madeleine.

KM: I mean I find it all incomprehensible to be honest, it has been very upsetting, and it has caused a lot of frustration and anger which is a real negative emotion, and I think we just need to channel that and I just have to hope that in the long run that justice will prevail, and all will be well.

GM: And I think it's also important for us personally, but for the rest of the family as well.

FB: For your children?

GM: Yeah and our wider family, both parents, brothers and sisters etc, so - you know - we've got to challenge it, and we will do.

FB: The other thing that struck me when I was looking through various internet search engines before I did this interview was quite how much cruel, distressing, horribly tasteless commentary there is out there about you, about Madeleine. People giving their opinions about what they think happened, even though they don't know you. They were nowhere near, they can't possibly know. It's so hurtful for you, that that is out there - and for your children - how do you deal with that?

KM: I think the whole social media has got huge pros, but huge cons. On the downside, and all that's been written... I guess we protect ourselves really. We don't go there to be honest. We are aware of things that get said because people alert us to them. I guess our worry is for our children.

FB: Of course, because they are now 12, they are at an age where social media becomes increasingly important?

GM: I don't want to dwell on the negative aspects too long, but I think in this era of "fake news" it is extremely topical and I think people just need to think twice before what they write and the effects it has. Certainly I know ourselves with our own experience, both in the mainstream media and also on the internet, we just say I am not going to believe that until I see evidence of it. I'm sure it is a very small minority of people who spend their time doing it, but it has totally inhibited what we do. Personally, we don't use social media, although we have used it in Madeleine's campaign. But for our twins who are growing up in an era where mobile technology is used all the time, we don't want them not to be able to use it in the same way that their peers do.

FB: How do you protect them?

GM: We had some excellent advice early on. We have been as open with them as we can. We have told them about things and that people are writing things that are simply just untrue and they need to be aware of that. They're not really at the age where they are on the internet and other sites, but they're coming to that stage. They're in closed groups with their friends etc and that's important.

KM: I think we've tried to educate them a little bit as well because obviously it's not just us that has fallen victim to the downside of social media.

FB: Does it shock you? Because it has shocked me, certainly a little, the things that people say.

KM: I think it has been shocking... that aspect of human nature that I hadn't really encountered before. Because I think it's so far from how you would behave or people that you know would behave. It's been striking and quite hard really to get your head round. Because why would somebody write that? Why would somebody add to someone's upset - why would someone in a position of ignorance do something like that?

GM: I think we've seen the worst and the best of human nature. And our personal experience, rather than on the internet, has been overwhelmingly seeing the better side of human nature. And I think we need to remember that actually. We've had fantastic support over the last 10 years. And because there's a lot of media attention now around the 10th anniversary, we are starting to see that again as well.

KM: I think that's true. I think because things like social media, or (Goncalo) Amaral or whatever, because it's so awful and upsetting, it does kind of sometimes stand out more, it becomes more of a talking point. Whereas actually the main thing that we have experienced is the goodness of people and the support that we have had over 10 years, which hasn't wavered in all that time.

FB: How different is your life now? When you have a child, you consciously or subconsciously imagine your future and the future of that child. How different is your life now to that what you must have imagined all those years ago?

GM: I think before Madeleine was taken, we felt we had managed to achieve our little perfect nuclear family of five. And we had that for a short period and I suppose, almost the same way as if your child becomes ill or seriously ill, or has died, like many other families have suffered... then your vision is altered and you have to adapt. And I think that's a theme that speaking to other people who have gone through terribly traumatic processes with children and other loved ones, that is something that gradually happens, and you adapt and you have a new normality. And unfortunately for us a new normality is a family-of-four. But we have adapted and that's important. The last five years in particular has allowed us to really properly devote time to looking after the twins and ourselves and of course carrying on with our work. At some point you've got to realise that time is not frozen and I think both of us realise that we owed it to the twins to make sure that their life is as fulfilling as they deserve, and we have certainly tried our best to achieve that.

FB: On the face of it, you appear to have stayed so strong as a family unit. I just wonder how you have managed to do that? It's so easy to blame each other when a cataclysm befalls a family. That's such as easy trap to fall into.

KM: I don't think there has ever been any blame, fortunately. What people do say is that you don't realise how strong you are until you have no option. And I think that's very true. Obviously massive events like this cause a lot of reaction, a lot of trauma and upset. But ultimately you have to keep going - and especially when you have got other children involved. Some of that is subconscious I think - your mind and body just take over to a certain extent. But if you can't change something immediately, you have to go with it and do the best that you can. And I think that's what we have tried to do. As Gerry said, one of our goals - obviously ultimately finding Madeleine - was to ensure that Sean and Amelie have a very normal, happy and fulfilling life and we'll do everything that we can to ensure that.

FB: Life for you has changed in different ways Kate. You were a GP. You stopped working, you haven't gone back to full-time work. I assume the idea of someone else looking after your children seemed unthinkable after what happened - you just needed to be with the children and be there?

KM: Certainly initially, yes absolutely. The kids weren't even in school, I wanted to be there, I didn't want to let them out of my sight - there was obviously a lot going on, a lot of campaign work, a lot of emotion. I am actually back at work now. I am doing something different to what I was doing.

FB: What are you doing now?

KM: I am back into medicine but a different area to my general practice. So that obviously takes up some time - and again that was a big step to re-establish as normal a life as possible. Life's busy. I think in some ways, whether it's our personality or whether it's a coping strategy but sometimes it's almost a little bit too frenetic, but it keeps us going. I think we don't dwell too much on things unnecessarily so I think that's probably a self-protective thing there as well. We do have a very full life and as normal as we can make it.

FB: And how much do you make Madeleine a part of it, do you talk about Madeleine, is she a name that crops up every day? How do you manage that?

GM: I mean she's always still part of our life, there's photographs all round the house, this time of year, then we can't even have conversations that doesn't involve it, kids know we're doing the interview today, the anniversary is coming up, so she is still part of it.

KM: I think every kind of event that we do, whether it be a birthday or a family occasion or even an achievement or something that is kind of when you really feel her absence. It's slightly different to how it was in the early days, when everything we were doing was to find Madeleine, whereas now we are having to get on and live a life as well, but its not like any day she's not there, if you know what I mean.

FB: And last time we talked, you told me how you were still buying birthday presents and Christmas presents for Madeleine. With 10 years now, are you still doing that?

KM: I still do that yeah. You couldn't not.

FB: So you go around the shops and you think, Madeleine would have been this age now, and what would she want?

KM: I do, I do, that's it. I obviously have to think about what age she is and something that, whenever we find her, will still be appropriate so there's a lot of thought goes into it. But I couldn't not, you know, she's still our daughter, she'll always be our daughter.

GM: Because Kate does all the present-buying.

KM: I do all the present buying, and yep, they'll be another one coming up - you know - in the next few weeks.

FB: And Madeleine would be how old?

GM: Just coming up to 14.

B: And this anniversary, how will you get through that day?

KM: I think like I put in my message on the website, every day is another day, without Madeleine. I think it's just that number, that 10-year mark, which makes it more significant I think - that is a reminder of how much time has gone by and obviously 10's a big number. I think we'll get by as we have any other year really, we'll be surrounded by family and friends, you know, obviously we'll be there remembering Madeleine, as we always have.

GM: I think the day and the poignancy of it, that we don't tend to go back to the time, because it's so draining but inevitably on anniversaries and her birthday they are by far the hardest days, by far.

KM: I think it is important though because despite how difficult these days are, just keeping in mind actually how much progress we have made and you know nothing's ever going to be quick enough from our point of view but the last five years, we've come a long way and there is progress and there are some very credible lines of enquiry that the police are working on and whilst there's no evidence to give us any negative news, you know, that hope is still there.

FB: It really is there in your hearts, the hope that one day you'll be reunited with your daughter?

GM: No parent is going to give up on their child, unless they know for certain their child is dead, and we just don't have any evidence.

KM: My hope for Madeleine being out there is no less than it was almost 10 years ago, I mean apart from those first 48 hours nothing has actually changed since then, I mean - I think the difficult thing has always been how will we find her because you're relying on the police doing everything they can, and you're relying on somebody with information coming forward.

GM: I think that that is so important, that everyone thinks what could have happened, but some of the scenarios with other people that have been abducted and kept, is just so unbelievable that you think 'how could that have happened' and that is probably what is going to happen with Madeleine's case as well, that people will go 'that's incredible, how did that happen - we just don't know'.

KM: I think Assistant Commissioner Rowley underlined that last week: that you can't apply normal logic to someone who commits a crime like this - because you try and think, 'well, surely if they'd have done that, they'd done that and therefore' - but you can't.

FB: But you must also look at cases, in the case of Ben Needham who went missing in Greece, decades past and even now it's not entirely resolved, it's thought that he died very soon after he left the house but it's not known.

GM: That's interesting though you know, the people who've got the most experience are the National Centre for Missing and Exploited Children in the United States, and one of the earliest things that stuck with me ever since then is the younger that at the time a child is taken, the more likely they've been taken to be kept, and that could equally apply to Ben Needham who was younger than Madeleine so that's something we have to factor in actually.

FB: Which in one way could be a relief, but in another way is an unconscionable thought for you?

GM: It is, and it's 10 years, and how much has she changed and where would she be now, so, but I think the key thing is is to find Madeleine, she's still alive, recognise who she is, or we need to find the person or the people responsible for taking her.

FB: You must have imagined over the years - if you saw her, do you know what you'd say to her, how your lives would change?

KM: Yeah I think I try not to go there too often to be honest it's one of those real bitter-sweet kind of thoughts, yeah, I mean, I can't imagine, 10 years is a long time, but ultimately we're mum and dad, she's our daughter, she's got a brother and sister, grandparents and lots of family and friends you know.

So it would be absolutely fine, it would be - well - it would be beyond words really. We'll cope with anything.

FB: Now, I know doing this interview was something you thought long and hard about, not something you particularly want to do, certainly not something you were looking forward to, what do you hope by doing an interview like this, what do you hope people will hear, what's the message you want to get out?

GM: I think, that there is still hope really, there isn't a new appeal, most of the media that we've done in the previous years is usually around that - so this is unusual. So, we are marking the anniversary. I think it's been good for the general public to hear police say there's no evidence that she's dead, and that there is still an active investigation, and there is still hope. So certainly from my point of view, somebody knows what's happened.

KM: I think you know we've had so many supporters who, I say, are still with us, people that we don't know who are still there and I guess I just want them to be reassured that there is progress being made. It might not be as quick as we want, but there's real progress being made and I think we need to take heart from that and we just have to go with the process and follow it through, whatever it takes for as long as it takes. But that there is still hope that we can find Madeleine.

FB: And if you do find Madeleine you'll be able to show her everything you did to try and find her. You never gave up?

KM: Absolutely. And how many people have been there willing her home.

FB: Is there anything else you would like to say?

KM: I think that is one of the positives, we were talking about the amount of money, and I used to feel really embarrassed when people used to say about the amount of money, but then you realise that other big cases, like Stephen Lawrence, these cases cost a huge amount of money. I guess the one thing, because you always do feel guilty as the parent of a missing child - that other families haven't had the publicity and the money, and I know there's reasons why that happened, but I guess the positive is that it has certainly brought the whole issue of missing children to the forefront and I think people have benefited in many different ways, really. Because of that. I know the charity Missing People has had a lot of attention, haven't they and all the families have come together I think it's just highlighted it, made people more aware, and those families have had more support from each other.

FB: A small silver lining. A tiny little sliver of one. Let's end it there.

Peter Levy (Radio Humberside) interview with Clarence Mitchell  - 6th January 2011

PETER LEVY Yes here we are, BBC Radio Humberside, BBC Lincolnshire and we’re into the second hour this Thursday. Thank you for being there. I hope your day is good. Now anyone who has followed the sad case of the missing girl, Madeleine McCann, will know the name of my next guest. Clarence Mitchell is a former BBC journalist and television presenter who started his career here at the BBC. He’s been spokesperson for Kate and Gerry McCann since their daughter disappeared in May 2007 and Clarence is joining us on the programme today. Clarence, good afternoon to you.

CLARENCE MITCHELL Peter, good afternoon. How many years has it been since we last spoke?

PETER LEVY I don’t know. Its quite a few years.

CLARENCE MITCHELL Too many.

PETER LEVY Too many because for people who don’t know, Clarence used to work at Look North. In fact you used to live in Hull, didn’t you?.

CLARENCE MITCHELL That’s right. On Sunny Bank in Hull. A great city and I very much enjoyed my time there. It was, erm, some years ago now. It would have been 88 – 89, around then. The last century virtually.

PETER LEVY My memory, well there’s many memories of you, but you actually were the journalist who… I think you were travelling back from London in your car the night of the terrible air crash at Kegworth, weren’t you.

CLARENCE MITCHELL I was. I had actually been down to London to visit my parents while working on Look North during the week and I was on the way back up on the M1. I was in Leicester, Forest Dene Service Station and the first I was aware of what seemed to be a major accident was the number of ambulances and police cars flying under the restaurant that straddles the motorway there. I immediately got in my car and followed them as reporters should do and it became clear very quickly that this wasn’t a simple, local, small accident. This was a major incident and yes, you are absolutely right. I broadcast live using an early rudimentary mobile phone from my car at the beginning of, from memory, that would have been 89.

PETER LEVY Coming up to date, or more recently, how did you first meet the McCanns?

CLARENCE MITCHELL I met them because of my role following the BBC, erm, I was with the BBC as you rightly said for around twenty years. I then joined the Cabinet Office, erm as Director of the Media Monitoring Unit for the government which meant working with No. 10 and all the major departments of state and because of my existing media contacts whenever a big story came along, er, I was considered, erm, as a possible, er, press officer, if you like for the government to go and assist the media on the ground. Now I thought it would be something like bird flu or foot and mouth or perhaps another terrorist incident where government press officers are sometimes sent out to assist the police or the emergency services on the ground deal with the media but as it was, erm, I was told that a child had gone missing in Portugal and the media interest was developing very rapidly and that the Ambassador in Portugal had asked for assistance for his press office team, erm. So I was effectively seconded to the Foreign Office and sent out to Portugal. I actually met Gerry for the first time in Leicestershire. He came back to collect some belongings from home and he and I then flew back to Portugal in May 2007 and I met Kate out there for the first time. So that’s, that’s how it came about. I went out as a civil servant and met them through the consular assistance that they were offered.

PETER LEVY What are they like as people, because they’ve been through, you know, hell and back really and also at one time, of course, everybody was pointing fingers very much at them

CLARENCE MITCHELL They are coping as best as they can under the circumstances. Nobody ever expected that, erm, we’d be here, what, nearly four years down the line without Madeleine being found, without her being recovered and brought home to the rightful place at home with them. Erm, they have good days and bad days like anybody. If they feel that there is momentum in the private investigation that’s still ongoing. They have a small team of former British police officers working on the case. They feel, they draw strength from that or if the campaigning side of the work that they constantly do is going well, again they draw strength from that. Its during the quieter periods when nothing much appears to be happening that they can, they can be knocked back a little bit and that’s only natural, perfectly human. But they are very committed to the search for their daughter. They want an answer. And until they know what has happened to their daughter and until this awful situation is resolved they will keep going. And yet you are right, there was a lot of criticism at different times and a lot of leaked rubbish, frankly, that came out in the Portuguese press and was then repeated without any attempt to check it in the British media and then recycled a third time back into Portugal, erm. This was a very difficult period for them. They were part of the investigation as ‘arguido’ the status that’s given to people who the police wish to speak to about incidents in Portugal. But that status was ultimately lifted and the Portuguese Attorney General made it clear there was absolutely no evidence, in any way, to implicate them in Madeleine’s disappearance which, of course, there isn’t because I know them well enough now to say with with absolute confidence to say that, of course, they weren’t involved. They are a grieving family and they need all the help and support they can get to keep the search for their daughter going.

PETER LEVY You can’t imagine what it would be like as a parent to know that the finger is pointed at you when they’re going through that. I mean its extraordinary really isn’t it.

CLARENCE MITCHELL Well it is but it is also perfectly understandable in any police inquiry that the police will look at those nearest and dearest to the victim of the crime. Its a standard procedure and you know…

PETER LEVY Very often it is those people.

CLARENCE MITCHELL Well in this case it isn’t. And, you know, Kate and Gerry would be the first people to say they welcome the police looking at them so that they can be ruled out, you know. They made that point themselves several times early on. Er, that the police should do whatever they need to do to find the true abductor, the person responsible for Madeleine’s disappearance. Erm and as I say that process was a lengthy, drawn-out one and there were very…, a great number of unhelpful leaks at times, speculative things that weren’t factually correct then got repeated. Er, there were language difficulties, translation difficulties. All sorts of things that led to this storm around them and it was at times it was very bleak for them to have to cope with that but they got through it and as I say they are as strong as ever as a couple and they’re doing their best to cope and maintain momentum behind the search for their daughter.

PETER LEVY Well you’ve given them amazing support yourself. Erm, how do they, when you say there’s teams of people working are these…, these are not ordinary police, these are paid for, hired police. Are they working on it still?

CLARENCE MITCHELL Yes, there is no official police search, if you like, for Madeleine going on at all. When the Portuguese authorities shelved the case, er, that effectively ended the formal police work. Of course, if any significant new leads were to develop then the police may well revisit it but at the moment the only people actively looking for Madeleine are a small team employed by the McCanns through their fund and the British public, in fact the international public have been very, very generous to them. Money still occasionally comes in. Erm, they’ve also had a number of settlements with various newspaper groups because of some of the libels that were written about them and their friends and all of the proceeds of those actions have gone into the fund to keep it going. Erm, and that money is used to employ…, they’ve had a number of agencies, private detective agencies over the years on short-term contracts but currently its the investigation, its a private operation, its being led by David Edgar who is a former RUC officer, retired and he calls in assistance from his colleagues, former colleagues in various police forces as and when he needs it and there is work going on in Britain and in Portugal at different times. But because of the sensitive nature of it obviously I can’t go into any details but its very much ongoing.

PETER LEVY I understand that totally. What, again don’t answer if you don’t want to, but I know that every parent listening will be interested to know the answer. What do they, because it is a…, the whole thing is a mystery, what do they believe, what do they think is the strongest possibility of what happened to little Madeleine?

CLARENCE MITCHELL Kate and Gerry know Mad…, know their daughter well enough to know that she didn’t wander out of the apartment as has often been speculated. The only assumption that they can make is that somebody took her out of the apartment. That is the working hypothesis on which the private investigation is also based that there is somebody, perhaps on or just two or three people out there who know what happened and that there was an element of pre-meditation, pre-planning went into it. Possibly because of the location of the apartment. It was on a fairly remote corner of that particular resort. Erm, children would have been coming, going over weeks, months beforehand and the private investigation believes there was a degree of pre-meditation and planning, erm, and the very fact that nothing has been found of Madeleine since, not a trace, tends to suggest that she has been taken somewhere else and has been, hopefully is being looked after or at least cared for with someone. That is the working hypothesis. In some cases, if God forbid, she had been harmed, she probably would have been found long ago but she hasn’t been and that’s why they keep going.

PETER LEVY So the belief is that she is…, she is alive and being looked after and probably still in Portugal?

CLARENCE MITCHELL As Kate and Gerry have always said until they have the answer as to what has happened and until they are presented with incontrovertible proof that she has been harmed, they will continue to believe, just as logically without any evidence to the contrary that she could still just as easily be alive. And every time even if they ever begin to doubt that themselves, which they don’t, but if they ever do something like Jaycee Lee Dugard in the States happens or other people emerge from very different situations but it can happen. It is rare but it can happen and each of those cases do give them a renewed hope that one day they too will get that call that says Madeleine has been recovered safe and well.

PETER LEVY They must be very heartened by the huge amount of public interest and concern and care for them that there’s been over the last three and a half years.

CLARENCE MITCHELL They are immensely grateful to everybody who continues to support them, the media as well. The very fact that you and I are now talking about it so far down the line. Many other families of missing children have not had that luxury, if you like, of the continued media interest…

PETER LEVY Why did it capture the imagination so much?

CLARENCE MITCHELL Oh, how long’s your programme? There are all sorts of reasons but essentially it played into the…, every parental nightmare of losing your children whilst on holiday, er, it raised the whole question of parental responsibility. Kate and Gerry felt they and their friends were mounting a perfectly correct and proper checking system on the…, given the lack of resources available to them at the time, but they made a mistake and they got it wrong.

PETER LEVY And its kicking yourself isn’t it? You know, Its the, its, its you know its…, and they’ve got to live with that haven’t they?

CLARENCE MITCHELL Yes they do and you know, God forbid, they may have to live with that for the rest of their lives. Let’s hope not, but, but they accept that they made a judgement call and that million to one chance it went wrong and, as you say, they have to live with that now. And some of the recriminations and online, there’s a very small vocal minority online who attack them for being negligent. That is completely misplaced and entirely wrong and doesn’t actually help find Madeleine in any shape or form. But the vast majority of right-thinking, decent people understand the awful situation that they find themselves in and are supportive and, of course, wish them well and hope that Madeleine will be found.

PETER LEVY Of course we all do and everybody listening as well. They were planning a book to raise some money but they’ve delayed the publication because they didn’t want it to clash with the royal wedding.

CLARENCE MITCHELL Well, that was a decision that was taken by the publishers. As I’m sure you know any book publication involves quite a lengthy lead in times with dates for printing, distribution and all the rest of it and they had announced, the publishers had announced it would be April 28th. Kate is still writing the book at the moment. She’s well on with it but she’s still writing it and then of course the royal wedding was announced just after that as being the very next day so logistically the media and all the distribution processes will be dominated by the royal wedding in the run-up to that date and probably slightly beyond. So it made sense from the publisher’s point of view to move the production deadline and the production, the publication date. This is quite common with many book launches. Er, its only been moved on a fortnight and its on May 12th now will be the day it appears which of course is Madeleine’s eighth birthday which is also highly appropriate and it will still be very much tied into the fourth anniversary of Madeleine going missing if, God forbid, we have to get that far. Erm, and of course by then some of the royal wedding coverage may well have moved on and hopefully people will be able to see the book and see what Kate and Gerry are saying much more clearly.

PETER LEVY Ok, listen Clarence its good of you to come on the programme and talk about them and when you next speak to Gerry and Kate do give them our best wishes. Very good to have you on the programme. I wish you well onward. And how do you spend your days these days when you are not, when you are not doing the wonderful work for them that you are?

CLARENCE MITCHELL Well, thank you for the good wishes Peter and, of course, I will pass those on to them.. I speak to them pretty much virtually every day. I either phone or email or contact. I will certainly make it clear to them that you’ve said that. I’m now working as a result of moving into Public Relations, if you like with the Madeleine situation. I now work for a PR agency in London, Lewis PR. I’m the Director of Media Strategy and Public Affairs which means that I work with a number of their clients as well, advising them on their media contact. If any particular stories flare up involving those clients I generally act as a bit of a go-between in much the same way as I do for Kate and Gerry with the media, the print, broadcast and online media. Erm, and on the public affairs side because of my governmental work I’m able to assist as well where I can with governmental contact for some of the clients too. So its a busy old agenda, just a frenetic as the BBC in many ways if its on the other side of the fence.

PETER LEVY Well I know you are a workaholic. That’s what I can tell people but people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. Very good to have you on the programme, Clarence.

CLARENCE MITCHELL Peter. Lovely to speak again, thanks.

PETER LEVY Bye

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe LBC Radio phone-in April 2016:  Madeleine McCann investigation could end soon

Caller: Hi, good morning, my question is regarding to Madeleine McCann...

Nick Ferrari (host):   Oh yes.

Caller:  ...what chances can we find this girl?

Nick Ferrari:   This is I think another additional 95,000 pounds that has been earmarked by the Home Office, I think, for Scotland Yard Sir Bernard, and that would mean around six months the investigations can continue.

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe:  Yeah, Michael (the caller) as you know there's been a lot of investigation time spent on this is, it's a terrible case isn't it, it's a child who went missing and everybody wants to know if she is alive if she is, where is she, and if suddenly she is dead then we need to give some comfort to the family, so it needed us to carry out an investigation together with the Portuguese and other countries have been involved and there is a line of inquiry that remains to be concluded and it's expected in the coming months that will happen. The size of the teams came down radically, I think we're now down to two or three people in that team, at one stage was about 30 officers in it, ahm, essentially it's a Portuguese inquiry...

Nick Ferrari:   What do thirty people do all day Commissioner?

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe:  Well, the first steps they had to do was to actually review and look at all the things the Portuguese had done, to see whether or not there was anything we could offer that, you know, might help with that investigation, had they missed anything, now we do that for ourselves and the Portuguese review. So we thought, well, we were asked by the Prime Minister before I arrived, to see whether or not there was anything we could do to help that investigation. Our review...

Nick Ferrari:  It takes thirty officers?!

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe:  Well, err, yep, but just bear in mind what happened there, so you got thousands of pages, I went in to one of our police stations back in 2011 and there was a whole room full of documents that this inquiry had produced, you know, from the hundreds of witnesses statements, to all every card they checked out, from all, you know, these inquiries for those who don't get involved in them don't realize just what they generate, huge amounts of material, and of course, these all have to be translated.

Nick Ferrari:  Yes.

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe:  This didn't start out in English.

Nick Ferrari:  Sure.

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe:  They were translated into English.

Nick Ferrari:  Have you moved forward in any way?

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe:  I, well, that's what I'm indicating, is that first of all we had to extinguish the possibilities that existed in terms of inquiry, I think some of those have been stopped and there is a line of inquiry I think is, well, everybody agrees, is worthwhile pursuing.

Nick Ferrari:  How long will this go on? When will you finally be prepared to stand down operation, I think it's Operation Grange, isn't it?

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe:  Well, really at the moment it will be the conclusion of this line of inquiry, unless something else comes up.

Nick Ferrari:  So, you'd spend more money, again? Another 95,000 pound?

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe:  Well, if somebody comes to me, if somebody comes forward and gives good evidence we'll follow it.

Nick Ferrari:  Yes.

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe:  We always say that, ahm, you know, a missing child inquiry is never closed.

Nick Ferrari:  Yes, but there are a hundred eighty-seven missing children in Britain, not all fortunately of the circumstances of Madeleine McCann. How come this one attracts so much attention and indeed funding?

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe:  Well, of course, you know, this was a decision of the government, that in this case they wanted to fund the Metropolitan Police to make this inquiry. If you remember, of course, this poor girl came from Leicestershire area, and was obviously aboard in Portugal at the time. So, we went, the Home Office, the government asked the Met to get involved and we have done our best as anybody humanly can, to try and find this girl, and that's surely the thing that drives us all. Newspapers have got involved, private investigators got involved..

Nick Ferrari:  So, you don't see any standing down in the near future of Operation Grange?

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe:  Well, I thought it was clear, which is first of all, the line of inquiry that is being pursued, that obviously is important, it's important in the coming months that is resolved and I think it will be, if something new comes forward of course we'll investigate it, but that line of inquiry probably is, at the moment, is the conclusion of this inquiry.

The McCann's first media statement, read from a script, by Gerry McCann


 BBC News  - Friday 4th May 2007 @ 10:00 pm

"Words cannot describe the anguish and despair that we are feeling as the parents of our beautiful daughter Madeleine. 

We request that anyone who may have any information related to Madeleine's disappearance, no matter how trivial, contact the Portuguese police and help us get her back safely. 

Please, if you have Madeleine, let her come home to her mummy, daddy, brother and sister.

----------

The McCanns second media statement, read from a script , by Gerry McCann


BBC News - Saturday 5th May 2007

We would like to make another short statement related to Madeleine's disappearance.

First of all we would like to thank everyone here in Portugal, the UK and elsewhere for all your support during this extremingly... extremely difficult time for our family.

We are pleased that the family liaison officers from Leicestershire are now working closely with the Portuguese Police, and in keeping us informed. We have no further information regarding the investigation but appreciate the significant efforts everyone is making on our behalf.

We would again like to appeal for any information, however small, that may lead to the safe return of Madeleine.

Finally we would like to thank the media for respecting our privacy especially that of Madeleine's little brother and sister.

As everyone can understand how distressing the current situation is, we ask that our privacy is respected to allow us to continue assisting the police in their current investigation.

Thank you

Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe, discusses progress in the Madeleine McCann case.

Radio 5 Live:  Broadcast 20th February 2014

Nicky Campbell: Errm... Adeal in London... no, I tell you what, we'll go to Christine in Cardiff. Brief points please because there's only eight minutes left, so make your questions as... as, errr... well edited as you can. Hi, Christine.

Christine: (phone in) Good morning. Good morning, Sir Bernard.

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe: Good morning, Christine.

Christine: I'd like to ask you, errr... on the progress of Operation Grange.

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe: Right, we have a lots of Op... Operations, so you're going to have...

Nicky Campbell: Operation Grange, just...?

Christine: Operation Grange.

Nicky Campbell: Which is?

Christine: It's the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe: Ahh, right, thank you for helping...

Christine: That's okay.

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe: ...but we do have a lot of Operations in London, so I'm sorry if I didn't recognise it immediately.

Nicky Campbell: The Portuguese police really mess... really messed up, didn't they?

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe: Yes. [spoken in acknowledgment of the reference to the 'Portuguese police' and before Nicky Campbell has finished his sentence]

Christine: Yes... no [seemingly spoken in echo of Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe's 'yes' but then realises it could be misconstrued and makes an attempt to change it to 'no'. See her next comment]

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe: Errm... I'm not going to respond to Nicky's comments.

Christine: (in background) Did they Nicky?

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe: I'm just going to... Let me just... let me just help. Where we are at the moment: We've sent three letters of request for international assistance to the Portuguese, errr... Judiciary, because that's the way their system works, and also with the police - we are working closely with them. Errm... obviously the Portuguese police have got a line of inquiry which is different to the Metropolitan Police's but we're working together to try and resolve that. Errm... we're trying our best to keep the family informed and I think in the middle of all this, quite often their torment gets lost. Have they lost a child or, errr... by being murdered or... sadly... or have they lost a child by someone else stealing them.

Nicky Campbell: Awful.

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe: Either way, errr... they've got that terrible uncertainty, so we're all trying our best to help resolve that. We...

Nicky Campbell: Do you have suspects?

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe: Errr... yes, we've said very clearly that, you know, we've got lines of inquiry that, errm... are different to the Portuguese police and we're working with them to try and resolve that and I'm only going to... you know, that comment you made at the beginning, about, you know, what they did or didn't do. We've got to work together on this and I don't mean that as a naïve thing; I just think, generally. We've generally got to work together. We can't police Portugal, they can't do everything over here; we must work together. So, we're insist... you know, we really can work in genuine partnership on this. We're making some progress, errm... let's see how it comes over the next few months.

Nicky Campbell: If you'd been involved at the outset, do you think we might have got further with this investigation?

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe: Errr... I think that's a bit unf... that would be unfair. I mean there's been inquiries in, errm... in the UK, where we know that the police could have done better. I think to be too judgmental in these cases is... is wrong and I wasn't there and I'm not going to judge them. The main thing we're all committed to is trying to find that little girl.

Nicky Campbell: And you have lines of inquiry, you have 'suspects' lines of inquiry; you have names.

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe: That's right.

Nicky Campbell: Errm... and I appreciate how you can't, at this stage, go any further, errr... and have you spoken to those people?

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe: Errm... I'm not going to go any further, really. Because that's what you just said you didn't want!

Nicky Campbell: I'm sure when you were interviewing people in that... in that little room you'd try and sneak one in like that, Sir Bernard. I bet you have in your time.

New Madeleine TV appeal BBC News - 5th June 2007:   BBC Crimewatch

Fiona Bruce:   It's 33 days since little Madeleine McCann disappeared from Praia da Luz in Portugal. Tonight, in a special appeal, her parents Gerry and Kate plead for your help in the hunt for their daughter.
 
Gerry McCann:  For the Crimewatch viewers at home I think this would be a good time now to review all the information.
 
Kate McCann:   These are virtually identical to the pyjamas that Madeleine was wearing when she was taken. As you can see it's a pink top, errm... with gathered short sleeves and it has a picture of Eeyore on the front. Errr, the bottoms are white with a... a floral design and have an Eeyore, errm... on the bottom of the right leg.
 
Gerry McCann:   Around, errr... the time that Madeleine, errr... was found to be missing, shortly before that, there was a suspect, errr... seen walking away from the apartment, errr... with, errm... probably carrying a child.
 
He is approximately 35 years of age, round about 5ft 8, 5ft 9. He had dark hair parted, errr... to one side, he was wearing, errr... dark jacket, errr... slightly longer than a suit jacket, light coloured trousers, which may have been beige or mustard coloured, and dark shoes. Errr... You know it could have been someone innocent, we would certainly be keen that that person comes forward to be eliminated but, you know, we are certainly suspicious of the timing.
 
We certainly know that it... it could only take one... one phone call. Errm, someone has a key bit of information and it may be someone close to whoever has Madeleine. It might be the person themselves. They can phone, tell the police where Madeleine is.
 
Kate McCann:   The majority of people, you know, are really good people and, I think that's been demonstrated by all... all the fantastic support we've had, it's been amazing. Errm, there are a few bad people in the world but also there are a few sad people and I guess I'm hoping that it's someone sad who's just wanted our daughter.
 
Gerry McCann:  It... it's not too late to hand her over.
 
Fiona Bruce:  It certainly isn't. We so much want to find her, don't we? British police also want anyone who was on holiday at the Ocean Club Resort, Praia da Luz, or the surrounding areas, between the 19th April and the 3rd of May to have a look at their holiday photos and if any members of the public are in the background the police are keen to see them. They have sophisticated equipment which can spot if the same person appears in different photos.
 
You can upload your photos to [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and if you have any information that will help the McCanns' appeal please call this dedicated British police number on 0800 0961233 or 0207 1580197, if you're calling from abroad. And police would like to stress this appeal is aimed at anyone who hasn't already contacted them. And if you've seen Madeleine you should inform local police immediately, please don't wait until you get home.

Paris Match:   Exclusive interview with the McCanns - 4th September 2007

Paris Match:  The return to England must be very difficult?

Kate McCann: Of course it will be very hard to return without Madeleine. We have so many happy memories. I am enormously apprehensive about the return. It's extremely painful not to have her with me, not to play with her. Where is she, where can she be found? I am her mother and wherever she is, I should be there.

Gerry McCann:  There are advantages, however, of returning to England. For the twins, it is better. In an extremely stressful situation, if you are in a location which you know very well, you feel more secure. And we would like to take our twins to where we want them to grow up.

KM:  Just one thing – we are not abandoning… We are just going home but we will return often to Portugal.
 
PM:   These past few weeks, have you felt an increase in suspicion [towards you]? The way people look at you, has that changed?

KM:   These past four weeks, the media has speculated a great deal. But many people have come to see me to assure me of their support. Others have told me that they are praying for us and advise me 'not to believe what is written in certain newspapers'.

GM:   For us, all these rumours make the enquiry more difficult … They are only rumours. There is no proof.

KM:   We don't read the press all that much. But my parents are at home and their lives at the moment are hell because of the newspapers.

GM:  I think that it is truly worrying that forensic information had been revealed. When witnesses are interviewed, they should not know beforehand what the police have found.
 
PM:   Did you imagine that you would be suspected some day?

GM:   We were witnesses and we knew that we were going to be put under the microscope. We have co-operated fully and tried to influence the enquiry in a positive way, bringing in…

KM:   In doing that, it was the best way to find Madeleine. We have to try everything, not regret anything. We have to keep pressing onward.
 
PM:   The police must equally have suspected your friends and delved into your backgrounds?

GM:   We have replied to all the questions that have been put to us and we will continue to do so, whatever the new information might be. Of course, we shall be completely honest.

KM:   We have said everything we know and responded to everything that we have been asked.

GM:   I have always known that, in this type of affair, all scenarios were possible. We have lived with this since it started. It is sometimes very difficult, what the media are reporting. For example, one day, somebody suggested that our daughter was dead, without offering any evidence of this. At the same time it has been said that we could be implicated, which is completely false, unbelievably awful.
 
PM:   Have you had any doubts about your friends who were with you at the hotel?

GM:   We have already been asked that question. We don't believe that, really we don't. Of course, the police must look at everything objectively. To see what evidence is there to support what possibility. It's the same thing in medicine. People come to see me because they have chest pain; I need to know why. I ask lots of questions, I examine them, and then I arrange tests for them in order to tell them finally what's wrong. Police procedure is the same. It's a building up of hypotheses. You gather together the information which helps you to decide which one is best, and what work you are going to do to confirm it. And sometimes you are going to take a hypothesis as far as you can but you realise that it doesn't work and you need to step back again.
 
PM:   Media pressure was immediately very noticeable.

GM:   Yes, from the first day, it was massive. Journalists came from all over the world. I believe we did not have a choice, we had to make a decision immediately. You communicate or you go and hide yourselves away. And if we had hidden ourselves, I am sure there would have been just as much of a row. People would have thought: 'Why are they hiding away?'. We chose to communicate to push people into searching for Madeleine. It’s the culture we have in the United Kingdom.
 
PM:   How did you meet each other?

GM:   I saw Kate on the other side of a river and I crossed it. We didn't meet in the street, but at work. She saw to it that I pursued her. I had to woo her for a long time. You don't know my romantic side.

KM:   We met in Glasgow during our studies. Afterwards, we were in the same hospital but we were doing different jobs.

GM:   At the time, I was working as a resident. Today, I am a cardiologist. We were both in our first year. Kate specialised, especially in obstetrics.

KM:   And afterwards in anaesthesia before doing general medicine.

GM:   We then worked together, both of us, in New Zealand and it was only at that point that we were going out with each other. In 1998, we were married. Madeleine was born in 2003, following IVF treatment.
 
PM:   Would you like to talk about that ?

GM:   Yes. It was unbelievably special, Madeleine's birth, for we had been trying for a long time. People were thinking that we were getting old and that maybe we could no longer have our own children. Madeleine is almost the perfect child. I know that all parents think this but Madeleine really was just that.
 
PM:   You seem very close. This time of trial, has it brought you closer?

KM:   To each other, do you mean? We have always had a strong relationship. If we come through this difficult time, I think that we will be able to get through anything. We have always communicated a lot, and very well, spoken a lot, I think that helps. And obviously, since the disappearance of Madeleine, we have done this more than we usually would, to support each other.

GM:   We have already gone through traumatic experiences along the way, but nothing, nothing that could be compared to this.

KM:   The pregnancy with the twins was also very complicated.

GM:   That pales into insignificance now, [color:47bd=000000]but I am sure that this is helping us now, and keeping us strong. At one point, we thought we were going to lose the twins very early, it was very hard. You draw upon all your strength in all of that. 

PM:   How did that week's holiday go, for the five of you?

KM:  We had a great week. We came with a group of friends who also had children. Ours had more little friends . There was that childrens' club with lots of activities. They had great fun.

GM:   Madeleine, in particular, enjoyed herself a lot. One day, she even went sailing with the club.
 
KM:   She played tennis.

GM:   In the evening, the adults stayed together and the children played on their side.
 
PM:   How was Madeleine during the holidays?

KM:   She is very intelligent, very sociable and engaging. She loves to chatter, she is funny, she has a lot of energy.

GM:   She is always very active, she loves to organise everything, she is very good at role-playing games. In the hotel creche, she liked to organise things. For her age, her vocabulary is very good, better than mine! She understands lots of things, she picks things up quickly, she is very insightful.
 
PM:   What have you said to the twins for the past four months?

KM:   We haven't had to say much. They are so young that they have no notion of time. They know that she is not there but they haven't asked many questions.

GM:   The psychologist told us that we mustn't say very much to them. We were afraid to say anything which could make problems for them later. The psychologist explained to us that they must not be told things which are not correct, like telling them for example that she was at the house of her grandmother Glanis. They know she is not there. We are waiting for them to ask where she is but the question has not yet been asked. They are not affected by her absence. They are only 2 and a half years old. How could they understand that someone could take away a child for malicious reasons? However, they have spoken about her recently.

KM:   Maybe because they're growing. They express themselves better. When they see Madeleine's cat, they say 'Maddie'. When they see her bag, as well.

GM:   Sometimes, they say: 'We love Madeleine', and we reply 'We love Madeleine'. At the worst, when they get round to asking where she is, we will say that she has disappeared or that she has been lost. It is the idea that we have to put to them. We will do it when they are ready. For example, when they see Madeleine on the television, they don’t understand. Besides, we don’t switch on any more.
 
PM:   How do you speak between yourselves about the disappearance of Maddie?

GM:   We speak to each other a great deal, Kate and I. It is very rare that we are both 'down' at the same time. One supports the other. As time passes, we don't see things the same way, we don't feel the same emotions. To begin with, there was nothing but pain, terrible thoughts. We still have them but less than before. Hope does not go away. Look at Austria, Natascha Kampusch has been found after eight years. Today we think that if Maddie had been taken or killed quickly, there would have been evidence [of this]. And it is there that we think about the importance of the first few minutes, at the borders, at the ports, at the airports. It only needs an hour and a half by car to reach Spain.

KM:   We have thought that a paedophile had taken her and done dreadful things to her. That is very difficult. But, little by little, we have thought of other possibilities, not so awful.
 
GM:   The psychologist helped us a lot in the first few days, because the worst hypotheses were the ones that came to mind. I asked him if we should prepare ourselves [in case] Madeleine was dead. He told us that, not knowing what had happened, we would have to deal with it when it comes. He asked us to imagine 'somebody arriving with Madeleine in their arms'. It was too difficult for us, at that stage, to visualise. And the psychologist said 'Is such a thing possible? Think what you would feel if it happened.' It was a way to challenge us, to show us that we were being negative. He wanted to help us think positively. We realised very quickly that only thinking about the worst case possibilities prevented us from functioning on a normal level. When you are overwhelmed with pain, you can do nothing. We realised that if we were in that emotional state, we could change nothing. When we decided to think more positively and to take action to influence events, in spreading out the search as widely as possible, it was better. From that moment on, we set ourselves targets. The only thing that matters is to find Madeleine again.
 
PM:   Did you notice anything strange during your stay in the hotel ?

GM:   Absolutely not, we had a very relaxing week. We were in a group of friends, we did plenty of things together, and at such times we don't pay attention to what is happening around us. We didn't see anything suspicious that week.
 
PM:   Do you feel any guilt for having left your children alone on the evening of 3rd May?

KM:   Of course we feel ourselves to blame for being at the restaurant when she disappeared. That will always be there, but the person who broke in and who took Madeleine is the most blameworthy, I think.

GM:   We have no doubt, she was targeted.

KM:   If we'd had to ask ourselves 'Are they safe?', we would never have left them. We never thought there was a risk. We thought we were being trustworthy and responsible. I did not think of the possibility of anybody breaking in. You never expect someone to come into where you are staying and take your child from her bed. The only reason for our comings and goings, it was in case they woke up.

PM:   Have you gone back inside Madeleine's bedroom?

GM:   Yes, I had to go back to get some clothes. I was able to pack our bags when the police allowed us to come and look for them. We have passed by that apartment every day for four months. It is not the fault of the apartment, or the Portuguese, or Portugal, they did not take her. It is the fault of the person who carried her away, but we do not know who took her.

Oprah Winfrey Show - 5th May 2009

Narrator: In their first interview in America, Oprah talks to Madeleine McCann's parents

Oprah: You have been vilified all over the world. What do you want to say about that?

Do you think that someone was watching your family?

Will there come a point when you will say enough?

What life is like now without their daughter.

Do you believe she is still alive?

The new search for Madeleine next.

Oprah VO: Someone somewhere knows what happened to MM. It's a story that captured the world and terrified parents all over the world. Two years ago, two years ago, little Madeleine vanished on a family vacation in Portugal. She was only 3 years old.

It was the spring of 2007. Kate and Gerry McCann were enjoying a family vacation in PDL Portugal with their two year old twins Sean and Amelie and 3 year old Madeleine.

Clip - Kate: They were having a great time and the kids and Madeleine in particular was having a ball.

Oprah [voice over]: The McCanns were travelling with several other families and some nights the parents would put their children to bed and meet up at the resort's Tapas restaurant less than 100 yards away. The adults would take turns checking on their children every half hour.

Clip - Gerry: It seemed a fairly natural sort of thing to do was so close so you could actually see the apartment.

Clip - Kate: There was absolutely no way if I had had the slightest inkling that there was a risk involved there that I would have done it.

Oprah - VO: On the fifth night at around 10 o'clock it was Kate's turn to check on the children

Clip - Kate: It was on the third check which was my check erm that I went erm, and I discovered Madeleine had been taken and I just ran and say not Madeleine not Madeleine not Madeleine and I can just remember saying that over and over and over again.

Oprah: Madeleine was missing and the search was on. The next day her parents Kate and Gerry held their first press conference. It would prove to be the beginning of an international media frenzy.

Clip - Gerry: Please, if you have Madeleine, let her come home to her mummy, daddy, brother and sister

Oprah - VO: Within hours of that emotional plea. News of the McCann's tragedy travelled around the world.

Various clips...Beckham/Pope etc.

Oprah - VO: After searching tirelessly for four months with few solid leads the McCanns became suspects or what the Portuguese call Arguidos.

Lawyer in Portimao: Kate and Gerry McCann have both been today declared Arguidos.

Oprah - VO: With that stunning news Kate and Gerry decided to leave Portugal - the last place they've seen their daughter Madeleine.

Gerry at EMA: Whilst it's heartbreaking to return to the UK without Madeleine, it does not mean we've given up our search for her. Despite there being so much we'd wish to say we are unable to do so except to say this "we have played no part in the disappearance of our lovely daughter Madeleine".

Oprah (Studio): Well Kate and Gerry were officially cleared as suspects in the case of their missing daughter last July and the McCanns are here today for their first interview in the United States. Thank you for joining us.

Kate and Gerry: Thank you

Oprah: I know this is a really hard time cause it's two years exactly.

Kate: It is yeah

Oprah: Uh huh...how are you?

Kate: Erm [sigh] we'll we're still going. Erm, we're working really hard and we have our better days and our not so good days erm but we're persevering and we're pressing on whilst there's hope.

Oprah: Anniversaries harder than other days or about the same?

Kate: I, I cannot believe that two years has passed I mean I cannot believe it's two years since I've seen Madeleine and she's had two years without being with her family where she should be, so from that point of view it's a real significant mark.

Oprah: Do you believe she is still alive?

Gerry: There's absolutely no reason to believe that she's not alive and I think that's the key thing and...

Oprah: Is that wishful thinking, hopeful thinking or is there some part of you that feels it, senses it, or does...just does not want to give up

Kate: I think it's partly fact in that you know, there's no evidence at all to suggest that Madeleine's come to any harm. Erm, part of me that, you know I do feel she's there, you know that connection is there, now whether that's just because I'm her mother and erm that will always be there that bond I don't know but, I don't feel that she's that far away you know

Oprah: Well I, you know, I'd read something that said there were times even you know early on after she err went missing that you would say I want I hope that whoever has her gives her her blanket I hope that whoever has her is keeping her warm I hope that whoever has her...

Kate: I mean it's funny, it's you know, I mean as a mum it's things like that you worry about as well you know. Is someone brushing her teeth. Is someone rubbing her tummy when she's not feeling well. You know, it's all those things as a mother you do and you should be doing and...

Oprah: But then do you let yourself go to the worst sometimes?

Kate: I mean I do I think it's natural and you know I know people mean well and they say don't let yourself go there and it's not going to help going there but as, as a mum inevitably there are times when I do and they're the times that I kind of dip down erm obviously I'm going to worry about her constantly you know...

Oprah: I would imagine there have been many times when you have dipped down. In this past two year cycle so much has happened what has been the worst for you were there times when you thought you wouldn't get through it?

Kate: I mean I think nothing is gonna be worse than those early days really. It was horrific, it was awful and I don't believe there can be a greater pain.

Gerry: It's something that you know, no parent should have to go through. It is just the most devastating horrible sensation err fear for your child and your whole existence, your family existence.

Oprah: Yeah, yeah, we'll be right back with Kate and Gerry McCann

Clips in Rothley:

Kate: You know we tried very hard erm to have a baby and err it took many years err until I got pregnant and the day Madeleine was born it was the, the most special day of me life and I did actually believe she was a real gift to us...

...I just can't believe how I you know...after five years of desperately trying to have children to suddenly having three it was great it was just lovely we were just so happy..

...I never had a day where I took my children for granted erm having been through what I'd been through. But you actually forget how precious life is erm until something awful happens and you realise just how perfect our life was.

Twinkly music - Gerry/Kate looking solemn.

Kate: You know it's only a couple of years since I've seen her but for someone so young erm I just thought she's quite amazing

Video from Xmas 2008...happy and you know it...

Kate: It's obviously quite hard thinking about it....sorry. She was just really good company you know just err. She just I mean...she just she's like my little friend sort of all the time...

...the ones that Madeleine has done I just can't pull down to be honest. Yeah it says here "Madeleine Donegal - Easter/2007" and that was erm the April we went to Portugal.

You know I look back and think oh why can't we just rewind the clock and it takes you back to really happy memories you know, things that you really enjoyed and it's just a reminder really of what isn't here anymore.

Oprah: Ooh..that’s hard...it's hard. The McCanns are here today for their first interview in the United States. Well you know you have been vilified all over the world for having dinner with your friends that night and the proximity you know less than a hundred yards away and leaving your children, the twins and Madeleine alone. And I'm sure you have beaten yourself up many times over that. Obviously if you could do it differently you would at this point.

Kate: Absolutely.

Oprah: Yeah, so what do you want to say about that?

Kate: I mean erm as you say I know I can persecute myself everyday about that and I feel awful that we weren't there at that minute and somebody took an opportunity to take Madeleine erm but if there'd been a second where'd I'd had to consider is this ok to do this it just would not have happened, it just would not have...

Oprah: Because this was, you all had done this every night for five nights straight, is what I'd read. So you'd done it every night and never thought err we are endangering our children or maybe we shouldn't do it.

Gerry: I think no we felt very safe and, and a quite a lot of resorts in Europe there is a baby listening service and we were, we were doing that ourselves within the group in actually going in to the apartments.

Oprah: So there's a group of seven friends was it?

Gerry: There was nine adults in total erm and that's what we were doing and really we were just checking to make sure none of the kids were crying.

Oprah: How man, how many children are being checked on there?

Gerry: There were eight

Oprah: Eight children?

Gerry: Yeah

Kate: Three, three families

Gerry: Can I, can I just say I think the worst thing about you know, the fact that many people have blamed us and vilified us and and with hindsight you know it was clearly a mistake with hindsight but the worst thing for me about that is there's an abductor out there and that person stole our child and went into an apartment and took a child and he's anonymous and blameless.

Oprah: You believe it was a he?

Gerry: Almost certainly a male almost certainly

Oprah: And is that because one of your friends Jane...

Gerry and Kate: Tanner

Oprah: ...had seen was err explain to me because I had read that she was coming out of her villa at nine fifteen. So let's go back to that night if you don't mind.

Gerry: Yeah

Oprah: Let's go back to the night. Nine oh-five, you all are at dinner and you made the-the-the check at nine so you're checking every half hour.

Gerry: It was actually nine o'clock while the whole group were in the restaurant and one of our friend's Matt already went up and checked his err daughter and as he came back I went up to check on Madeleine [hesitation] and the twins and I went into the apartment and err really just checking the crying and the door...

Oprah: Checking to see if there was any crying

Gerry: Yeah that was it and the door was erm open more, I'd, I'd left it just ajar about 5 degrees and we checked them before we left and they were sound asleep

Oprah: Which door are you talking about?

Gerry: This is the bedroom door, to err their room, the three children were in the same room so I actually stepped into the room and the twins were sound asleep and Madeleine was lying in her bed exactly where she was when I left, Cuddle Cat up beside her head on her blanket and err and I closed the door and went to...

Oprah: And this is about nine-oh-five?

Gerry: Just yeah, so I went outside and I was outside the apartment and I met err one of the other guests and he was coming the other way with his kid and I actually crossed the road to erm to chat to him and we were sort of chatting for about five minutes and during that, Jane went to check on her children and it was at that point she was just passed us going up to the corner and she saw a man carrying a young girl with almo.. she described independently the pyjamas that Madeleine had on and she didn't see the child's face she didn't you know she saw me there she'd seen that I'd just been in the apartment and so she at the time she thought it was something odd but it didn't raise enough alarm bells to challenge the person or anything

Kate: The child was barefoot and bare armed and he had a quite heavy jacket on so I think it was one of those things that just seemed a little bit odd but obviously it's not until later on that you realise.

Oprah: So this is the sketch of that person that err your friend Jane err remembers seeing but Jane, Jane didn't say anything when she came back to the table, yeah, because she saw you standing there.

Gerry: Yeah yeah

Oprah: So erm you discovered that Madeleine was missing so you checked it about 9:05 another friend sees this man at 9:15 and you went back to check again at...

Kate: Well actually at 9:30 I stood up to go and check on Madeleine, because it was my turn. And at the same time Matt our friend stood up and we both started walking and he said well I'm going to check on G***e they were the next apartment to us he said "I'll check on Madeleine" and he hesitated a bit and then he said "no, I'll check" so he went to check at half nine came back said fine everything's fine so I then went at 10 o'clock the next check erm...

Oprah: Did he see her in the bed at 9:30?

Kate: No he just went in and listened and there was no crying

Oprah: So he came back and said everything's fine cause you all everybody's just checking to see if there's crying and there's no crying so everything's fine and so then you went at ten.

Kate: I went at ten and I went into the apartment and there was no crying I stopped and there was no crying. And then I just noticed that the door was quite open

Oprah: Which door?

Kate: Their bedroom door sorry, and we usually have the door as Gerry said sort of not closed but ajar just so that a little bit of light gets in and it's not too dark in the room so I thought oh Matt must have gone in and left the door open

Oprah: same thing he thought

Kate: Yeah, so I thought well I'll just close it over again, and as I went to close it over it slammed shut and I thought and it was like sort of you know a draught had caused it to shut so I turned behind me and I thought are the patio doors open and they were closed and I thought well that's strange so then I opened the door thinking I'll open it ajar a bit again and that was when I kind of looked into the room and when I just looked and it was quite dark and I was just looking and looking at Madeleine's bed and I was thinking is that her that I was looking for why isn't Madeleine there? And then in the end I walked over and thought oh, she's not in bed and then I thought maybe she's wandered through to our bed and that's why the door's open so I went through to our bedroom and she wasn't there and then I kind of see then I'm starting to panic a bit and I ran back into their room and literally as I went back into their room the curtains that were drawn over just "foooosh" flew open and that's when I saw that the shutter was right up and the window was pushed right oper. And that was when I just knew that erm someone had taken her. So I, I mean I ran to the window and I didn't know what I thought was going to see but I ran to the window and then I quickly hmm quickly looked through the wardrobes I had I suppose this temporary thought she was cowering in a wardrobe or something anyway she wasn't there and I just ran out and soon as...

Oprah: was she in a closet, in a closet?

Kate: Yeah just in case, just in case she's hiding or something I don't know and then I just went flying out the backdoor and erm ran to Gerry and just as soon as I saw the table where they were sitting I just started shouting "someone's taken her, Madeleine's gone" you know and erm that's how it all started really but erm [hyperventilates]

Oprah: Why did you feel immediately, I'd heard that you'd said "They've taken her, they've taken her"

Kate: nnnn....I didn't say that I said, said "somebody's taken her Madeleine's gone". Well from the way I found the room it was obvious because a child could not open those shutters and the window

Oprah: uh huh

Kate: erm so it was obvious to me

Gerry: You know when she came back and she she shouted "someone's taken her" and there was just disbelief

Kate: Taken her that's fine they all jumped up and they were saying if Kate don't worry she's fine, she's fine she'll be there she'll be there and I said she's gone, she's - tak, somebody's taken her you know it was just like...

Gerry: And the way the room was you know.

Kate: It was just like disbelief you know...

Gerry: The way that window was and the shutter up and the window open there was no way Madeleine could have done that err at that age and err it was just terrifying.

Oprah: Madeleine was almost as they said four or sixth birthday will be May 12th erm and recently the McCanns had this age progression done by the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children with the hope that the search for their daughter Madeleine will continue. Here's what three year old Madeleine looked like when she disappeared and here is what experts believe that she will look like today. Almost six, on May the 12th is her birthday. We will be right back.

Narrator: Coming up....

Oprah: First of all tell us why you seemed not as emotional

Rothley sequence

Kate: In the last kind of few hours that I spent with Madeleine were lovely. Erm she was really tired, very very tired, erm after she'd tea, dinner erm we went back to the apartment erm, bathed all the kids, and then we, we sat on the couch and we read some stories and, had a few little treats and we were all cuddled in and it was nice. It was erm it was warm and loving and erm. And I can remember it quite vividly. Mmmh. Yeah I can visualise it as I'm speaking.

End sequence

Oprah: Well two years ago Madeleine McCann vanished while on vacation with her family in Portugal. Her parents Kate and Gerry are here today because they want the world to know they are still searching for their little girl and they believe that someone, somewhere knows something about her, her disappearance. How often do you think about those last moments?

Kate: Quite a lot I mean, they were really special actually it was funny in a way because that night at that time was more significant than previous nights I remember everything I mean she took my engagement ring off and put it on her finger which she she did quite frequently and err...you know I can remember the stories I read you know.

Oprah: What did you read?

Kate: Oh it was one of her favourite stories which is called Mog which is about a cat and, I mean a story we read which seems ironic now but the story we read erm the last story is "when you're happy and you know it"

Oprah: uh huh

Kate: and err...

Oprah: And so when you came and realised that your daughter was missing and you're in a foreign country at the time you made a decision you know an effort to try to get her picture out to try to err engage the media, is that true?

Gerry: It wasn't [sigh] so much a conscious decision after a few hours erm some of our friends were saying that we'd contact the media, contact the media you know at least Portuguese police were saying no, no media, no media and we were desperate at that point

Oprah: uh huh...

Kate: The overwhelming feeling was like helplessness. Absolute helplessness I mean you're absolutely desperate I mean this is our daughter who you just love beyond words and every second is like hours you know...

Oprah: uh huh...

Kate: and nothing can happen quick enough...

Oprah: uh huh...

Kate: so you just want as many people as you can out there looking...

Oprah: uh huh...

Kate: praying...

Oprah: uh huh...

Kate: closing borders, you know...

Gerry: I think yeah...

Kate: to try and get her back

Oprah: I think that's a really powerful statement I never actually, never thought of it that way before but I'm sure other parents who are watching you or anybody who's had a child missing understands what you mean when you say "nothing can happen quick enough"

Kate: And you know Oprah...

Oprah: ...nothing can happen quick enough...

Kate: It was so dark...

Oprah: uh huh...

Kate: it was dark, erm I've never had such a long night it was dark and you're just praying for the light you know to come up to get out there it's just...

Oprah: uh huh...

Gerry: There's a feeling of utter helplessness as well and erm it's interesting cause although there's been a lot of negative those early days there was just an incredible power that people wanted to help us

Oprah: yeah in the early days

Gerry: yeah yeah I mean and

Oprah: and then that turned

Gerry: it did yeah

Oprah: Yeah, can we go back to that press conference that was four days afterwards cause there was a press conference that was held err just four days after Madeleine disappeared Kate made another plea to the public for her return, let's watch that.

Press Conference Clip:

Kate: Madeleine is a beautiful, bright, funny, and caring little girl. She is so special. Please, please do not hurt her. Please don't scare her. Please tell us where to find her or pla - put her in a place of safety and let somebody know where she is. We beg you to let Madeleine come home.

Oprah: Well the tabloids used that press conference against the McCanns saying that Kate's lack of emotion implied that she was guilty, so, first of all tell us why you seemed err not as emotional.

Kate: I mean there were two aspects really, I'd spent seventy two hours I think crying erm and then suddenly almost feel like a little bit numb it's really hard to describe you know

Oprah: Yeah so I just want to verify that cause I had read that before the conference a behavioural expert spoke to you

Kate: certainly in the first week yeah

Oprah: uh huh...

Kate: and they said it's quite important that you don't show any emotion erm because the abductor could get some kind of I don't know some adverse kick out of it and I tell you when someone says to you, you know if you do this or you, you know you get a feeling from them that if you do this it could be detrimental in some way to your daughter

Oprah: uh huh...

Kate: I mean it's huge pressure on you to, to do that I mean the last thing I want obviously is to cause any extra further harm to Madeleine so...

Oprah: do you regret taking that advice?

Kate: No, I mean it was advice that was given with the best intention

Oprah: yeah

Kate: and I have to take expert advice you know I mean

Gerry: Who can judge how you're going to react?

Oprah: right...

Gerry: You know how many people have been in that situation?

Oprah: uh huh...we'll be right back

Narrator: Coming up

Oprah: And then there were the hurtful rumours that you accidentally caused her, her death.

Clip: Kate holding Madeleine as a baby

Oprah: How has your marriage been through all of this because a lot of marriages, a lot of people get pulled apart

Gerry: Hmmm, I think you know a child abduction I think could destroy any family, there's no doubt about it erm it's, it's one of the most devastating things and then if you look what's happened to us subsequently but we, we've been supported tremendously well

Oprah: uh huh...

Gerry: and I think that's helped us stay strong and stay together

Oprah: uh huh...

Gerry: ...and obviously we're really united in our goal and our love of Madeleine and Sean and Amelie.

Oprah: Once you were made official suspects, erm what was that moment like for you?

Kate: [sigh] Oh it was err, there were two things really I mean one it was incredibly upsetting cause you know just when you think things can't get any worse but actually it made me very angry erm and I know anger is not a good emotion but, it suddenly dawned on me that they weren't looking for Madeleine. They weren't looking for Madeleine and they weren't looking for the abductor and I just, I just felt so angry on her behalf I thought she just deserves so much more than that and suddenly when that happened and I got angry I just felt strong I just thought I'm going to fight you to the death for Madeleine you know, she needs us to be there and I just, suddenly, I don't know I just kind of got strength from somewhere.

Oprah: uh huh...

Gerry: I think though that that when the policeman told us they were going to be reinterviewed as arguido I mean it's a slightly odd legal situation, it really means a person of interest to the enquiry it's not really you know that you're being charged you can be declared arguido if you're have to answer questions which may incriminate yourself but I think Kate just turned round and said "what are you trying to do, destroy our family?" you know and you'd already had the biggest insult you could have as a parent and then to be accused or err it was suggested you were involved in your own daughter's disappearance...

Oprah: uh huh...

Gerry: ...that was pretty bad.

Oprah: And then there were the, the, the hurtful rumours that you drugged Madeleine or that you gave her sedatives that you err accidentally caused her, her death.

Kate: [long pause] I mean we know it's all lies

Gerry: It's just nonsense you know there's no that people can have theories and that's all it is there's no evidence to support any of that and it's absolute ludicrous you know and it's....

Oprah: Did you understand at first though because in our country I don't know obviously you've heard of the Susan Smith case which was over fifteen years ago woman who stood up

Gerry: Yeah Kate's....

Oprah: and killed her children...and I think that's what changed the way everybody thought about child abduction particularly in our country after Susan Smith L-I-E-D in public

Gerry: it's it's...

Oprah: ...and, and it turns out she's the one that put her children in the lake.

Gerry: It was, it was interesting though cause Kate's aunt who lives in Vancouver she was talking about when we'd been accused of having lack of emotion and she, she cited this...

Oprah: uh huh...

Gerry: ...err woman's case and saying she was screaming and wailing and balling...

Oprah: uh huh...

Gerry: ...you know and you think you know that doesn't mean anything you know

Oprah: yeah it doesn't mean anything...

Gerry: but it, it was and it's quite hard you know you can you just deny things and it's like well you know, does a denial change anyone's mind

Oprah: mmmh...

Gerry: ...and it's quite hard you know once you've been smeared like that it's actually how do you prove, how do you prove a negative

Kate: How do you prove innocence?

Oprah: Yeah. Her birthday is May 12th.

Kate: [makes tut noise]

Oprah: And will you celebrate that birthday? Will there be an acknowledgement of that birthday?

Kate: We haven't planned anything yet certainly last year we had a party, just close family and we had a birthday cake and Sean and Amelie knew it was Madeleine's birthday and erm sis

Oprah: Do they remember her?

Kate: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, they're amazing honestly

Oprah: they're four now, they're four...yeah

Kate: yeah, yeah...

Gerry: I mean it's hard cause they're older than Madeleine was when she was taken now err but those days when you just when things are really bad and you just want to crawl under a rock and never and just say make it all go away Sean and Amelie will just come out with something like "when Madeleine comes back I'm going to give her this" and they talk about her all the time you know she's, she's a big part of their life now and err and you just think you know if Madeleine walks through the door, if we find Madeleine today for Sean and Amelie it'll, it'll feel like she'd never been away and that it err it when you're really struggling they just give you that energy and drive to, to carry on and, and I suppose it's like one of the things we were saying a lot just now is we can't give up never give up on Madeleine.

Oprah: So when you think of her though do you think of her as her almost four year old self or do you think of her as the photo. Let's show the photo err again of what we believe she would look like today. Do you think of her as being...

Kate: No I mean I think of her as she was really cause that's the Madeleine that we know and that's the Madeleine we have memories of and you know the pictures of when she was nearly four tell a story you know we can relate that picture to our time with Madeleine erm I, I don't actually know this little girl you know erm but

Oprah: but if she came back....

Kate: Oh yeah...

Oprah: ...you'd be willing to yeah...

Kate: Oh yeah I'd know 'er if she went past me I'd know 'er for sure

Oprah: We'll be right back.

Rothley Clips:

Sean and Amelie on swing: We're just, we're just, we're just gonna pick some cheese

Kate pushing swing: Getting some cheese on the moon ok

Kate VO: Life has to go on you know if we didn't function then we'd achieve nothing.

Kate to twins: C'mon then I think we need to get ready though.

Kate: If I was so consumed with the, the pain and grief then you know I wouldn't be doing my job as a mother to Sean and Amelie and not for Madeleine you know we still need to find her.

Kate: It's those times that obviously all the emotion comes flooding out and whilst that is important you couldn't do it all the time so yes you know, meals have to be cooked washing has to be done.

Gerry: Bedtime, let's get a story ready

Kate: Sean and Amelie know that we're looking for Madeleine. Now they obviously love their sister very much and for them that's become, that's our job really erm and they know it's ok to be sad

Oprah: How has this affected the way you parent Sean and Amelie? Are you afraid to ever let them out of your sight?

Kate: I think it, it definitely has affected erm I mean it's important I suppose to get the balance I mean they, they have to live, they have to experience life. And there are times when you have to let go a bit...

Oprah: uh huh...

Kate: ...for their development.

Oprah: uh huh...

Gerry: It's hard

Kate: it's difficult

Gerry: yeah...but they also understand now that we're here erm asking people to help us search, for Madeleine and that, you know that image is err, we're looking for a, a six year old girl now.

Oprah: Well I, you know I, I heard you were criticised, villified for washing the Cuddle Cat that was in her bed what seventy days later err do you still carry the Cuddle Cat, that' the Cuddle Cat

Kate: Yeah I do, it's with me [laughs] Yeah I mean I, I find that quite bizarre really I mean Cuddle Cat always used to get washed you know

Oprah: So seventy days after Madeleine was gone there was a story in the, one of the tabloids about her washing away the DNA from the Cuddle Cat but it had been SEVENTY days.

Oprah: Have you ever come close in a lead. Have you ever come close to thinking that you were close to finding her?

Gerry: [sighs] err...I don't think so really it's, it's, it's hard because you almost don't want to let yourself to go there so I think that in the early days and weeks we used to hear about sightings often through the media and lots of family and other people would get very excited and, and sometimes they had you know, almost no credibility whatsoever and until we have some sort of evidence, you know like photograph or, or something then I think we wouldn't allow ourselves to really think this is it

Oprah: to get hopeful

Gerry: too hopeful, yeah...

Oprah: uh huh...

Gerry: ...was hopeful but not thinking that you're there. It's happened for other families.

Oprah: uh huh...

Gerry: You know we, we other people might think you know, they're deluded, you know Madeleine's not it has happened Elizabeth Smart and we've met the Smart. You know there's two ways I think Madeleine'll be found this age progression picture...

Oprah: uh huh...

Gerry: ...someone now where Madeleine is around will recognise her and that's why we want the image out there...

Kate: ...a match.

Gerry: as far and as wide so they'll do it or the second thing is we'll identify the abductor and...

Kate: ...or...

Gerry: ...that's key

Kate: ...or somebody knows something because at the end of the day this man is known to somebody you know, he's someone's son, someone's brother, someone's cousin, someone's neighbour, someone's colleague, someone's partner, so he's known to someone and even if these people don't know that he definitely did it they might have a suspicion and it's just I guess it's somehow reaching out to them and saying please come forward you know.

Oprah: We'll be right back.

Snow White video then NCMEC clip:

Ernie Allen: We're currently in our forensic imaging unit err these forensic artists every day are ageing the photographs of long term missing children. Nine hundred children have been recovered successfully.

Ernie: The photo in the centre is the photo we used of Madeleine McCann so this is the photo of Kate McCann on the left at age five or six and the photo on the right is of Gerry McCann at the same age. So what our artist will do is to create a combined image that we believe is representative of what Madeleine looks like today.

Kate [hugs Ernie]: It's nice to see you

Ernie: I really want you to understand circulating the photograph of a child who was not quite four, two years later err is not good enough. This is our age progressed image of Madeleine.

Kate: I mean I think it is a reminder of what we've missed out on and particularly you know what Madeleine's missed out on.

Gerry: If that Madeleine walks through the door tomorrow it'll be like she was never been away.

Back in Studio:

Oprah: That was Ernie Allen from the National Center For Missing and Exploited Children. They do amazing work there showing the McCanns what they believe Madeleine erm might look like today. I hear you keep her, Madeleine's room ready for her.

Kate: Yep, no it's all ready and waiting [sigh]..

Oprah: Do you go in the room often?

Kate: I do yeah, I go in about twice a day.

Oprah: Do you talk to her?

Kate: I do usually I mean I, I must admit I tend to open and close the curtains morning and evening and just say hello really, just tell her we'll still going and you know we're going to do everything we can to find her.

Oprah: uh huh...

Oprah: Are the Portuguese Police still looking?

Gerry: Well what's happened is erm the file is officially closed and it, and that was a really difficult period because in Portugal they have a thing called Judicial Secrecy and you're not meant to know what's going on but that was closed last July and then we were given the files on DVD in Portuguese so we have a small err team which is funded from erm Madeleine's Fund and we really hope that people who were in Praia da Luz who might have information and we've asked the local community in Portuguese to come forward and again in combination with a sighting so you know this for us this is a very active search and Kate...

Kate: ...there's no....

Gerry: Kate spends...

Kate: ...there's no law enforcement agency though actively looking for Madeleine I mean obviously you know

Gerry: the onus is on us which you know is pretty frustrating actually

Kate: ...we're driving this

Gerry: ...but as parents you've just got, got to do everything.

Oprah: So have you gone back to work?

Gerry: Yeah I made a decision to go back and for two reasons, one I, I felt it was important that the twins had normality back in their life and erm and me going to work was, was normal and I think almost for selfish reasons I needed to be thinking about something else.

Oprah: Yeah, we'll be right back.

Oprah: Will there come a point when you will say "enough"?

Kate: I mean, I think even if you wanted that and there are days when you just want to get under the duvet or you just want to be in a coma till it's over just to, relieve the pain and get some peace but you can't. I don't think they'll ever get a day if we're still in this situation where we feel we've done everything I, I don't think any parent could, even if you were thinking I need, I need a rest, I need something.

Oprah: Do you think that somebody was watching your family?

Kate: I do now yeah.

Oprah: uh huh...

Oprah: You think somebody was watching you over a period of days or?

Kate: Yeah, which is horrible

Oprah: uh huh...

Kate: I mean it makes you feel sick actually when you think about it

Oprah: What do you want to say to that person?

Gerry: It's not too late to do the right thing you know, they can give her up. They can tell us where she is. They can hand her over, to a priest...or...someone in authority. They can do the right thing.

Kate: Madeleine should be with us. Madeleine should be with her family. She's got a little brother and sister who want her back in her life you know and please you know if you don't want to think about Gerry and I think about Sean and Amelie you know and, bring their big sister back you know.

Oprah: We'll be right back.

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Oprah: You recently went back to Portugal...

Gerry: Yeah

Oprah: ...er what was that like for you?

Gerry: It's difficult erm but you know I feel nothing against Praia da Luz or the Algarve as such because child abductions happen all over the world and it's the perpetrator

Oprah: uh huh...

Gerry: ...and we don't know where that person is rather than the apartment or the resort or Portugal

Oprah: ...or the people of the town

Gerry: no, not at all and they were, they were really supportive and

Oprah: and you're right, abductions happen all over the world

Gerry: that's right and I think you know, the best thing for everyone is if we can find Madeleine and who took her

Oprah: uh huh...

Oprah: Thank you so much

Kate: thank you

Oprah: ...for this conversation today...thank you

Gerry: thank you for the opportunity

Oprah: and listen I, it has happened before, it has happened before and so I wish the best for you.

Kate and Gerry: Thank you

Oprah: If you have any information you're watching anywhere around the world go to find Madeleine dot com, find Madeleine dot com

Oprah: Bye everybody

Kate and Gerry: Thank you

Oprah: Thank you.

[Acknowledgement:  Steve Marsden for transcript.  Nigel Moore of mccannfiles.com and Pamalam for hosting]

Witness Statement of Alexander James CAMERON 

Occupation: Professor/teacher

This testimony (constituted by three pages and signed by me) is the truth and in accordance with my understanding. I give this testimony with the knowledge that, knowingly making false statements may subject me to legal action.

Date: 15 of April 2008
___________________________

I am the above referenced person, also known between friends and family as 'Sandy.' I have been married to my wife Patricia CAMERON for 23 years but we knew each other for a few years before that. Patricia is Gerry McCann's sister, making me Gerry's brother-in-law. I got to know Gerry roughly the same time I got to know Patricia' approximately 30 years. Around 10 years ago, Gerry married Kate Healy and since that time I have know Kate. Gerry and Kate have three children, Madeleine (4 years old) and the twins Sean and Amelie (2 years old). I have met with Kate and Gerry and the children on numerous occasions both tat their home and in mine. I also visited the family when Gerry was working in Amsterdam.

On the night of Thursday, May 3, 2007, Patricia received a telephone call from Gerry informing us of the disappearance of Madeleine. Gerry manifested all those emotions one expects from a father who has lost a child in the circumstances. He was distraught and spoke at the same time he cried. He seemed frustrated with the slowness of the searches in Portugal, with the fact that the borders had not been closed, and with the fact that sniffer dogs were not being used. Patricia and I contacted the British Embassy to try and help in this regard. We also decided to fly to Portugal in order to offer all our help and support to Kate and Gerry. It was not possible for us to arrange to a flight on Friday, and consequently left Manchester to faro on Saturday, May 5, 2007. When we arrived in Praia da Luz we found Kate and Gerry. At this time we noticed a huge interest from the media regarding what had happened and Gerry and Kate were being helped in part by the Foreign (traveller) Services, representatives from Mark Warner and other members of the family.

They continued to demonstrate much distress and tried to deal with all the advice given to them, much of which was contradictory. When we arrived in Portugal we stayed in an apartment in the Mark Warner Praia da Luz complex. Kate and Gerry were still lodged in the same complex, even though it was not the same apartment. We had a separate apartment on the same floor and close to two doors somewhat of a distance. During part of this time, our days had similar routines. During the day we would leave the apartment to meet with Kate and Gerry in order to care for the twins Sean and Amelie, and also to cook for all of us. Kate and Gerry would use our apartment as an office in order to have meetings and to effect search plans for Madeleine. This continued until the end of June, at a time when Mark Warner required that we leave the complex and at a time when tourist high season was about to begin.

During these first two months we provided help to Kate and Gerry, and only returned to the U.K. on two occasions in order to take care of some personal business. In the beginning of July of 2007, we left the Ocean Club and moved to a villa with Kate, Gerry and the twins in the Montinhos zone, around 1.5 km from the OC. We never noticed anything strange in the site were we stayed.

On the 27th of May of 2007, Gerry was handed a rental vehicle in the Mark Warner tourist complex; a Renault Scenic with plate number 59-DA-27. I met with the representative of the car rental agency at Gerry's request, and as such, my name was also on the rental contract so that I could also drive the vehicle; to drive the children and to go shopping. These were things that Gerry was too occupied to carry out himself. I was the habitual drive of the vehicle and used it daily. I drove to many places, including the airport, local supermarkets, and drove the children to the zoo and the beaches in the area. I also travelled as a passenger on many occasions, when Kate, Gerry or other people were visiting, or driving the vehicle.

People who were present in the vehicle were Kate, Gerry, Sean, Amelie, Mike Wright, Janet (Kate's aunt), Kate's mother and father, and her friend Amanda. Basically, the vehicle served as a transport for friend and family who cam to offer their help to Kate and Gerry and also to effect daily routines. The same vehicle was also used to move us from the Ocean Club to the villa, transporting all the luggage and personal objects from one location to the other. During these trips, the children seats would be removed to create space.

Whilst in the villa, a gardener would arrive every week or about every 15 days. This was organized by the estate agency. The gardener would leave black rubbish bags near the gate, and on at least one occasion, I used the vehicle to remove these bags. The collection of rubbish in Portugal is not made as it is in the U.K., and for this reason, it was necessary to take the rubbish to a tip (disposal area) which was called 'recycling area' near the back of the Ocean Club. I used the Renault Scenic for this reason on many occasions.

On one occasion, I believe it was on July of 2007, I took Patricia to the supermarket. We carried bags in the boot (trunk) of the Renault Scenic; bought various items including fresh fish, shrimp and beef. When we unloaded the shopping bags, we noticed that blood has run out of the bottom of the plastic bag. After this shopping trip and still in the month of July 2007, I began to notice a strange odour in the car. I did not give it much importance and assumed it was likely due to the leakage from the rubbish bags or from the blood which had escaped from the shopping bags. As a result, we removed the carpet from the boot (trunk) in order to clean it. I tossed (beat) the boot carpet to remove any particles and cleaned it with a wet cloth and left it to air out.

In my opinion, it is impossible that Kate and Gerry could have hidden Madeleine or used the car to transport her to another locale. There was always a lot of people and the media observing their movements which would make this impossible. As I cited previously, I have know Madeleine her whole life and saw her on many occasions. I always found her a very smart little girl and careful with strangers. I also saw when she woke after a nap and after a night of sleep. She would occasionally appear irritated as she would when her parents were not present. For this reason, I believe that Madeleine had been awakened by a stranger she would certainly have screamed or cried out. I do not believe that there is any possibility that she would have let a stranger take her without protest.

Relative to what is cited above, I will add that I was interviewed via DVD by Dc Gierc of the Leicestershire police between 09h58 and 10h39 on Tuesday, 15 of April of 2008 in the Leicestershire Police Squad. I confirm that my DVD testimony is true and in accordance with my understanding.

Gerry McCann:  BBC Edinburgh - 25th August 2007 


Nick: 'Gerry McCann, why did you want to come here to a conference of television executives?'

GM: 'I think the first thing to say Nick is that when I actually agreed to do it we hadn't predicted what was going to happen to the degree of coverage and really, the reason I'm here was primarily to tell people that Madeleine is still missing and we're still looking for her and particularly to touch an international audience...what I didn't expect was such an intense coverage of the news story for such a long time.'

Nick: 'Why do think that is?'

GM: 'I think I, err that there is undoubtedly a huge desire for people to...one want to find Madeleine but to to know what's happening erm...but there clearly is a lot of pressure on people to write things just now because they're in Portugal when there's not very much happening.'

Nick: Do you feel in some ways you've unleashed a monster? in the very early stages you were desperate for publicity and you err, err, courted publicity effectively...now do you feel it's run away from you?

GM: I, I think that's far too simplistic. There was a huge media presence in Praia da Luz on day one before we had really done anything. All we did was to make a conscious decision to interact with the media err and to raise awareness of Madeleine's disappearance and erm I never ever expected and err I don't think it's necessarily beneficial to have constant coverage...er what we just want want is given the huge saturation, particularly in the UK
and also Portugal...what we really just want to do...I mean we hope it
never gets there but if Madeleine is still missing we just want to
remind people from time to time, infrequently now that she is still
missing and we're still looking'.

Nick: 'From the outside it appears that you've been running...candidly,
crudely a very professional campaign with a lot of very experienced
public relations professionals and so on...(Gerry is grinning at this
point) I mean clearly that is accidental but how did that come about?'

GM: 'Well it's not at all, you know we're just err happen to be a fairly ordinary family err some of whom were quite good at err speaking on television. Of course, we had advice at the beginning
from the PR people brought in by Mark Warner, Alex Woolfall who gave us
some excellent advice....you know, what are your objectives and how's
it going to help your search for Madeleine? ...and then due to this
massive media demand on us - not the other way round - not us asking for media
we were advised that we should have a family spokesperson and we asked
the Foreign Office to provide that and they did support us and that was
very, very important to protect us from the media in what has been incredibly difficult emotional circumstances.. and then we, we of course did decide that we needed someone to help advise us err longer term for our campaign and with Madeleine's Fund we decided to appoint a campaign manager...and I have to say appointed someone to plan our strategy sort of medium and long term if it was needed but actually her job has been full-time handling the media. '

Nick: 'Would you like the media then now to go away...what do you want to happen over the coming weeks and months apart obviously from getting Madeleine back?'

GM: 'I think the key thing is that erm what we would ask that the, the story Madeleine's disappearance and investigation is reported responsibly and only newsworthy material being reported. '

Nick: 'So you would like much less coverage.'

GM: 'Absolutely, you know because there has been huge amounts written with no substance.'

Nick: 'How stressful have you found it and has Kate found it?'

GM: 'Madeleine being missing has been incredibly stressful..being under media spotlight erm has added to that and at times, leading up to the 100 days that did reach fever pitch and we felt very much erm badgered and erm unfairly I suppose as well...and err probably something we were prepared for in the first week or two, which didn't actually happen ...to have as it approached the 100 days, we, we weren't prepared for but things have gone back to a degree of normality again and erm some calmness has erm settled in largely as a result of the Portuguese official spokesperson...and that is what I would ask people to look at is what is being said officially, that we are not suspects, that there is no evidence that we're involved in Madeleine's disappearance and if there was that the police would have to declare us as suspects... that's Portuguese law...and compare that to what has been written and covered...the two do not bear comparison'.

[Thanks to CMoMM member aquila for transcript]

McCanns quizzed by reputable journalist Sandra Felgueiras outside the Lisbon courts - January 2010

Pivot: Gerry McCann repudiated the PJ Inspectors who stated in court that their daughter Madeleine is dead. The father of the child disappeared in the Algarve, accuses therefore the Inspector Ricardo Paiva of lying, when he said that his wife Kate called him, in the summer of 2007, telling that she had a dream where her daughter was dead and buried at hill in Praia da Luz. The PJ inspector said that this dream was decisive to change the course of investigations.

Voice over (Sandra Felgueiras): After yesterdays absolute silence, Gerry and Kate arrived at the civil court at 9:30 am, ready to blow off steam.

SF: How did you support hearing the inspectors repeating that Madeleine is dead and that you are involved?

Gerry McCann: The most important thing yesterday was what the prosecutor said, there's absolutely no evidence that Madeleine is dead.

Voice Over: At the same moment Gonçalo Amaral made a completely different assessment of the statements given yesterday by the former investigation colleagues. And even by the actual Nº2 of the PJ.

Gonçalo Amaral: Since yesterday I'm not the only one speaking, I can't say anything further since I'm in a injunction, so, about certain facts it's not only me talking. I'm not alone regarding that.

SF: Moita Flores ended up proving or corroborating, in the morning, that Madeleine couldn't have been abducted without any traces. During two hours, via video-conference, the former PJ inspector and actual Mayor of Santarém, praised the work done by the investigators of Madeleine's case, the same ones that Gerry McCann didn't spare criticism on his way out of the court, to go to London.

GM: It's particularly disappointing that certain police officers, withing Portimão, who considered us as possibly being involved in Madeleine's disappearence, have not been able to change their mind, inspite the lack of evidences. And it is this officers we are depending on for pursuing the investigation within Portugal.

GM: I would like to make absolutely clear that Kate has never had a dream, that Madeleine was buried somewhere. And, I don't know if something has been lost in interpretation, but that didn't happen.

Voice Over: Gerry declared untrue in this manner the sworn statement given yesterday by the inspector Ricardo Paiva, who, to the court explained that Kate's dream, that was told to him on the phone, two months later after the disappearance was crucial for the PJ to start investigating the hypothesis of the child being dead.

GM: We are not under trial, not at all. people may want to say that, but we were exonerated.[cut] The PJ tried... What was seen very clearly is that one thesis in particular tried to be proven, possibly more than any other.

SF: Do you think they were competent?

GM: (looks above SF) And there's no evidence to support it.

SF: Where they competent to you?

GM: (looks the other way) Sorry...

Sandra Felgueiras: He never criticized openly the Judiciary police but he implicitly made known what he thinks. Gerry McCann left this court at 4:30 pm, behind leaves Kate, who will be joined still today by Fiona Payne, one of the friends of the couple that was with them at the time of Madeleine's disappearence. The hearing will continue and end tomorrow.

Voice Over (unknown journalist): They arrived before 10am and decided to talk to journalists.

Gerry McCann: The same, to continue to fight for Madeleine, the search and to protect her family.

Sandra Felgueiras: How did you support hearing the inspectors repeating that Madeleine is dead and that you are involved?

Gerry McCann: The most important thing yesterday was what the prosecutor said, there's absolutely no evidence that Madeleine is dead.

SF: But then you heard...

GM: Let me finish, please. There's absolutely no evidence that Madeleine is dead, and there's absolutely no evidence that were involved in her disappearence. That is the conclusion...

SF: Three people saying...

GM: That is the conclusion of the process, and that's what we're here debating.

Voice over: In the first session, that lasted more than 9 hours, Gonçalo Amaral's witnesses defended that the book 'Maddie, A Verdade da Mentira' only exposes facts that pertain to the process. All of them sustained the thesis that the British child is dead and that the parents hid the cadaver. The hearing continues with Moita Flores statement, via video-conference, he is the last witness requested by Gonçalo Amaral to be heard. The former PJ inspector says that he is not alone and believes that the book will be back on the bookshops.

Gonçalo Amaral: If I didn't believe it, then I wouldn't believe in this Country's Justice, I wouldn't have started the opposition, so, we have to trust.

Sandra Felgueiras: How have you faced the McCann couple?

GA: How? In a natural way.

SF: I want to ask you if you were satisfied for having heard the inspectors that repeated the thesis that you shared on the book?

Gonçalo Amaral: Since yesterday, I'm not the only one speaking, I can't say anything further since I'm in a injunction, so, about certain facts it's not only me talking. I'm not alone regarding that.

Voice over: The McCanns allege that the book 'A Verdade da Mentira' and the documentary broadcast by TVI divulge a thesis which they consider unsustainable, and that is hampering the search of the child. The provisional measure was decreed in September, the Court will decide if the book will ever be commercialized again.