Maddie 'cremated'

Ex Portuguese top cop Goncalo Amaral claims Madeleine’s body was hidden in coffin then burned
Wild theory comes hours after Kate and Gerry McCann described their hopes Madeleine was still alive

By Nick Pisa
30th April 2017, 10:38 pm
Updated: 30th April 2017, 11:21 pm


[*]


FORMER cop Goncalo Amaral has claimed “Madeleine McCann’s body was cremated”.
Amaral makes the allegation in a TV interview shown in Portugal tonight.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
PA:Press Association

Former police chief Goncalo Amaral makes a heartbreaking new slur that Madeleine McCann’s body was cremated
The programme marks the 10th anniversary of the girl’s disappearance in Praia da Luz.
And his wild theory comes hours after Kate and Gerry McCann, of Rothley, Leics, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].
Shameless Amaral, booted off the original inquiry, has always claimed Kate and Gerry were involved in their daughter’s death. Now, in the TV interview, he says her body may have been hidden in a British woman’s coffin and cremated.
 
In TV interview Amaral claims her body may have been hidden in a British woman’s coffin and cremated

[*]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
News Group Newspapers Ltd
 
Amaral has maintained that Maddie’s parents had something to do with her disappearance
He is interviewed in Praia da Luz and suggests the key to the disappearance was the church where Kate and Gerry prayed.
He said: “We had information three figures went into the church via a side door at night. They had a box and there was to be a cremation of a British woman. It is possible the child’s remains were in this box and cremated as well. The parents had the key to the church.”   


Gerry and Kate McCann say 'there is still hope that we can find Madeleine'
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
DPA
 
Outrageous theory comes hours after Kate and Gerry McCann described their hopes Maddie was still alive
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
PA:Press Association
6
Amaral's claims come ten years after four-year-old Maddie vanished
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
PA:Press Association
 
An age progression image shows what Maddie might look like age 9, she would now be 14
The couple were made formal suspects in the case in September 2007 but that line of inquiry was later dropped.
Yesterday the Catholic priest at the church offered prayers for Madeleine.
Meanwhile, tourism chief Julio Barroso said: “Things are starting to pick up, but it’s taken ten years.”

The Secret Visits of the McCanns to the Church of Luz
by [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]





Announced visits and other secret, keys provided against the wishes of the Bishop, the priest wife agitated, finished constructions and searches never made​​. What is it that the church of Praia da Luz has?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]by Hernâni Carvalho

On the night of their daughter's disappearance, the McCann couple asked for a priest. The priest of the Luz church, José Pacheco, did not respond. The couple knew, even before they had gone to Praia da Luz, that the Anglican priest Haynes Hubbard celebrated masses there and lived with his wife. He had a friendship with McCann's family members. It was with him whom they spoke with. Some days later, Gerry and Kate received the church keys, and since then they were able to enter and leave at any time. A situation that was criticized by the Bishop of the Algarve at the time. When questioned on this discretionary act, the priest José Pacheco said: "Do I decide that?!"

McCanns visited the church in secret

"Although our pain feels much rawer here, it is comforting at the same time since we feel closer to Madeleine - we can read in a press statement sent to Lusa news agency in [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], by the McCann's Portuguese PR, in connection to the couple's visit to the church. During the day, the visits were announced and followed by the media. The exception was made in the early hours of January 14, 2010 [issues with date/see references bellow]. At 5am they were seen and photographed leaving the church from a side door. In the afternoon they gave a press conference.

Wife of Priest worried

The forensic psychologist Paulo Sargento asked the bishop of the Algarve Dom Manuel Quintas, if any catholic can go to the church at any time.

Hernâni Carvalho - How did you get to talk with the bishop?

Paulo Sargento - I sent a registered letter with acknowledgement of receipt early on, in January 2010. Since I got no reply, about a month later, I sent an e-mail with the questions that I had. Four days later, it was the Bishop himself who replied, also by e-mail, apologizing for the delay in the answer. A hearing was scheduled for two or three days later.

Hernâni Carvalho - And you felt clarified?

Paulo Sargento - The hearing took place in February, at the episcopal see of Faro. The Bishop received me kindly. We talked about an hour. I had already been informed about a McCann visit to the church in the early hours and wondered if the Bishop was aware of that and I also wished to understand if any other catholic could do the same. Dom Manuel Quintas confirmed the McCanns had indeed been in the church on that day at 5am, that the person who had given them the key that night was Susan Hubbard, the wife of the Anglican priest, who had a key to the church at all times since her husband celebrated the Anglican mass there. Susan assured the Bishop the McCanns wanted to pray without being harassed by the media. However, the Bishop told me: “I don't understand, that day at 17pm there was a mass where they went, surrounded by the media”. Dom Manuel Quintas also added that when Susan Hubbard found out about my hearing request, she got scared and inclusively, sought him, very worried. The Bishop told me that he answered her queries saying that she should not be so worried if nothing unusual or wrong had happened.

Hernâni Carvalho - Did the Bishop avoid discussing any issues?

Paulo Sargento - No. I'm not going to give you details, but the Bishop was very open and did not flinch at anything I asked to him. He was willing, even, to resume contact for further questions or more information I needed. Interestingly, in that summer (2010), Kate spent a week vacation in Canada, in the house of a family member of Susan Hubbard, the wife of the priest.

Construction Works

Back in 2007, the public area of the Village of Luz had been for months undergoing sanitation improvements and road works. Behind the church there were ongoing construction works. Being a place of worship, various legal issues hampered a search there. At the time, PJ sources admitted to the possibility that the girl's body could have passed through that location, or even, to have been buried in the deactivated cemetery.

End of page 98

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]The Big Bluff

The British police came to Portugal to investigate the Maddie case. They dug and went into the sewers looking for a dead girl or clues that could lead to her whereabouts. The PJ had said the very same and had done those searches seven years ago.

“A movie for the English to see”, said an elderly lady, mockingly, to [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. One and a half year ago the English police announced that they would find the girl in a few days. So far nothing. Scotland Yard's work in Portugal is discussed by all in a very critical way. “They haven't done anything that our PJ hasn't done years ago”, stated a Portuguese in the same area. The searches are causing discontent among tourists and locals as they consider them detrimental to tourism, now that the peak season begins.

Show Off

The British police wanted the searches to be accompanied by the media but the PJ refused. Since the 2nd of June, Praia da Luz in Lagos has a large team of policemen, geologists, archaeologists, cutting edge technology and also sniffer dogs. They all come from England “under the supervision of PJ and the Public Prosecutor Office”. In addition there are PJ inspectors, GNR military officers on foot and horseback and Portuguese forest sappers. A setting worthy of a Hollywood blockbuster movie.

Stones, socks and bottles

The searches and excavations of the English police in Luz highlights the acknowledgement that they are looking for a body. The PJ had reached that same conclusion seven years ago. The English police began by excavating a field near Rua 25 de Abril, 600 meters away from the apartment from where the girl disappeared. An area equal to three football fields, a slope hill, which belongs to the Belmiro de Azevedo Group [[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]] and is frequented by locals and tourists for leisurely walks. They collected animal bones, two cannabis plants, stones, soil samples, a sock and bottles and kept everything in boxes.

Nothing

There are no findings to sustain the theory of the British authorities. They argue that Maddie's body is in that place or that there are clues that may lead to her whereabouts. They also claim that they have a group of eight suspects(?). Explaining that they have extended the searches because they have concluded (only now?) that the terrain is more difficult to analyse than predicted. These places had already been thoroughly searched by the Portuguese police immediately after the disappearance of the girl. In fact, until September 11, 2007, the PJ had investigated over 2500 false leads.

Millions of Euros

The 37 officers of the London Metropolitan Police investigating the disappearance of Madeleine have cost the British Crown about 6 million pounds (7.4 million euros). Besides the first investigation, Portugal has had a team of six inspectors of the PJ in Faro, for months, just to carry out the the steps requested by the British and another team of inspectors from the Northern Directorate of PJ, doing a review of the first investigation for the last two years. No one has, so far, established the total cost to our country. The McCanns moved in early July 2007 for the Villa Vista Mar. At the average values of the property market at the time, the total rent was calculated to have surpassed 6000 euros. The Renault Scénic where biological traces were found, allegedly belonging to Maddie, was rented for 113 days, at the list price it costed 7990 euros.

Maddie
3 May 2007

In Praia da Luz in the Algarve, the parents of Madeleine, who would be four years old just a few days later, cried "abduction" when they noticed Maddie had disappeared from the apartment where they had left her alone with her ​​younger twin siblings. "Homicide", said the PJ a few days later. After a lot of press, suspects, searches, investigations to everyone's taste and seven years later, there is nothing.

in [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], Nº1117, 13 to 19 June 2014, paper edition, pages 98 & 99 - with many thanks to Maria

'I was deceived' says the Portuguese priest who comforted Gerry and Kate McCann

The Portuguese priest who comforted Gerry and Kate McCann in the days after Madeleine vanished last night said he had been deceived, it has emerged.

According to reports, Father Jose Manuel Pacheco claimed he had done nothing wrong and was simply "supporting two lost souls."

But, bizarrely, he also appeared to say he had been the victim of some form of deception.

Scroll down for more ...

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


It has also emerged Father Pacheco was apparently called in to see his superior, Algarve Bishop Manuel Quintas and warned about his behaviour.

In the days after Madeleine vanished on May 3, the McCanns, both 39 and devout Catholics, frequently sought refuge at the priest's church.

They became so close to Father Pacheco, he gave them the keys to the tiny building so they could go in to pray whenever they liked.

However, his friendship with the couple appeared to spectacularly backfire after police became convinced Kate had told him she had killed her daughter during confession.

But he has vowed to take whatever she had said to the grave, despite being quizzed by detectives.

Father Pacheco appeared to virtually vanish from the public eye in the weeks after Gerry and Kate were made arguidos - or official suspects.

The pair left Portugal without saying goodbye and handed the church keys to another clergyman.

Scroll down for more ...

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Last week, police moved in to search the churchyard and there has been some suggestion that they may consider digging for Madeleine's body at the location.

Father Pacheco, runs two churches and teaches at three local schools, yesterday broke his silence.

According to the Daily Express, he admitted he had become too close to the couple, still official suspects in the disappearance of their daughter.
"I was deceived," he said.

"I was just doing my job supporting lost souls. I would do that with any family who were in their situation. I didn't do anything wrong.
Father Pacheco, 46, said he had felt compelled to help Kate and Gerry because of their "inconsolable grief".


Read more: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Follow us: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] | [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Private detectives hired by Kate and Gerry McCann are convinced Madeleine is still alive 

By Fiona Govan in Praia da Luz
4:14PM GMT 19 Nov 2007


Portuguese detectives investigating Madeleine McCann’s disappearance are reported to have carried out fresh searches of the church where her parents prayed for the safe return of their daughter.
Officers carried out a detailed investigation of the church and an old cemetery nearby in a bid to discover whether the four-year-old’s body could have been hidden there in the days following her disappearance.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
They have also re-interviewed the Catholic priest at Church of Nossa Senhora da Luz - Our Lady of the Light - in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz.

Father Jose Manuel Pacheco, 46, became a friend and confidant of Kate and Gerry McCann in the days and weeks following their daughter’s disappearance.

He gave the McCanns keys to the 16th century church overlooking the sea so they could use it as a sanctuary and pray privately whenever they wanted.
The couple, both 39, are devout Catholics and went to Mass at the church most Sundays during the 130 days they spent in the Algarve.
They also attended regular candle lit vigils organised by the local community to pray for Madeleine’s safe return.
Officers from the Policia Judiciaria searched the building a fortnight ago to explore whether the girl’s body could have been hidden there, it was claimed in a Portuguese newspaper.
The search was carried out "informally and with maximum discretion" as part of a review of the case by Paulo Rebelo, Portugal’s second most senior policeman who took over the investigation in early October.
It is understood that detectives want to establish how often and at what times the McCanns visited the church, which is a short walk from their holiday apartment.
"Police have spoken several times to the priest in Praia da Luz since Madeleine disappeared," a source told Dairio de Noticias. But it is not known whether he has ever made a formal witness statement to detectives.
The McCanns, both doctors from Rothley in Leicestershire, were made arguidos - or formal suspects - on September 7 but they have always vehemently denied any involvement in their daughter’s disappearance.
Kate McCann’s mother said that the idea that her daughter was in anyway responsible for harming Madeleine was "absolutely bizarre" concerns over the conduct of the investigation by the police.
"This is the daughter that Kate and Gerry waited years for, that Kate and Gerry idolised, that Kate and Gerry would have laid down their own lives for... it’s absolutely bizarre," Susan Healy said in an interview aired by the Portuguese broadcaster SIC on Sunday night.
Meanwhile Metodo 3, the Spanish detective agency hired by the McCanns in September, said they were treating the alleged sighting of a woman handing over a child wrapped in a blanket to a man on 5 May as a "significant" lead and had also passed the information on to Portuguese police.

It's very interesting how the Daily Mail seems to open the comments section for news that supports the McCanns but closes the comments section for news that's anti-McCann.

I predicted they would say this was his latest crazy theory.

How can something be a 'slur' and 'wild' if there was evidence pointing to it?  I suppose murder investigations should stop looking for bodies and suspects because it might 'slur' the people involved!

I don't know what The Sun are up to. They are actually publishing G. Amarals actual words instead of just mis quoting and saying he's mental     
There are uncensored comments too, as they have allowed for a while now.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"He is interviewed in Praia da Luz and suggests the key to the disappearance was the church where Kate and Gerry prayed.
He said: “We had information three figures went into the church via a side door at night. They had a box and there was to be a cremation of a British woman. It is possible the child’s remains were in this box and cremated as well. The parents had the key to the church.” 

The very reason I joined this forum in 2013 is because i always suspected the PDL Church was a key factor in the disappearance. 
My theory was that Madeleine could have been hidden in a casket or similar.
When I tried researching the church and its layout, I happened across CMOMM and I've been a regular watcher since.
There are many theories and as to what happened to the body, but for me the church theory has always been the most simple and logical.... especially when you consider the comments of José Pacheco

ChippyM wrote:I don't know what The Sun are up to. They are actually publishing G. Amarals actual words instead of just mis quoting and saying he's mental     
There are uncensored comments too, as they have allowed for a while now.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Compare those to the moderated Amaral-bashing comments in the Daily Mail:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

ChippyM wrote:I predicted they would say this was his latest crazy theory.

How can something be a 'slur' and 'wild' if there was evidence pointing to it?  I suppose murder investigations should stop looking for bodies and suspects because it might 'slur' the people involved!

Yeah this theory's 'crazy,' but Commissioner Mark Rowley's 'botched burglary (oops) 3 yr old child abduction' is totally credible.

pennylane wrote:

ChippyM wrote:I predicted they would say this was his latest crazy theory.

How can something be a 'slur' and 'wild' if there was evidence pointing to it?  I suppose murder investigations should stop looking for bodies and suspects because it might 'slur' the people involved!

Yeah this theory's 'crazy,' but Commissioner Mark Rowley's 'botched burglary (oops) 3 yr old child abductor' is totally credible.

Best yet is DCI Redwood's theory: “One is that Madeleine is still alive; and the second that she is sadly dead."

Get'emGonçalo wrote:

pennylane wrote:

ChippyM wrote:I predicted they would say this was his latest crazy theory.

How can something be a 'slur' and 'wild' if there was evidence pointing to it?  I suppose murder investigations should stop looking for bodies and suspects because it might 'slur' the people involved!

Yeah this theory's 'crazy,' but Commissioner Mark Rowley's 'botched burglary (oops) 3 yr old child abductor' is totally credible.

Best yet is DCI Redwood's theory: “One is that Madeleine is still alive; and the second that she is sadly dead."

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I just don't get that.  On one hand she could be dead.....

How come in cases like Claudia Lawrence she could (in the realms of all possibilities) be alive .....yet they conclude it's a murder investigation!  There is no blood in that case, no body, no definite sighting of a perpetrator.

     The rubbish people like Andy Redwood come out with, how do they keep a straight face?

If the theory of the parents' culpability is pursued as a possibility then cremation would in my opinion be very credible.
If this is (a) a cover up of death and incriminating physical evidence and (b) a subsequent scam, then there would have to be absolutely 100% NO possibility of Madeleine's body being found. Cremation would be one of the very few options to ensure this. 
In fact are there any other methods to gurantee absolute destruction of a body and dispersal of the remains?

pauloptix wrote:The very reason I joined this forum in 2013 is because i always suspected the PDL Church was a key factor in the disappearance. 
My theory was that Madeleine could have been hidden in a casket or similar.

In the past I've asked anyone who knows or has visited Praia da Luz, if the church has a crypt.  I believe 'Our Lady of Light' dates from the 16th century - it would be extremely unlikely if there wasn't a crypt methinks.

How can it be possible that the dogs alerted to the hire car if a cremation earlier had taken place ?

Roidininki wrote:How can it be possible that the dogs alerted to the hire car if a cremation earlier had taken place ?

When did the cremation take place?

Was the car hired by anyone connected to the McCanns prior to them hiring it

sharonl wrote:

Roidininki wrote:How can it be possible that the dogs alerted to the hire car if a cremation earlier had taken place ?

When did the cremation take place?

Was the car hired by anyone connected to the McCanns prior to them hiring it

I'm going off the alleged sighting of three figures going into the church .I'm not  aware of a cremation date  . 
Not sure why you're asking me questions when I was the one asking them . 

@Roid
It has been said that someone saw three figures going into the church with a carrying a box and this person took a photograph.
Maybe that photograph hasn't been released?

IIRC there was a dead British lady in a coffin in the church but I don't know when that was.

Gingercat wrote:If the theory of the parents' culpability is pursued as a possibility then cremation would in my opinion be very credible.
If this is (a) a cover up of death and incriminating physical evidence and (b) a subsequent scam, then there would have to be absolutely 100% NO possibility of Madeleine's body being found. Cremation would be one of the very few options to ensure this. 
In fact are there any other methods to gurantee absolute destruction of a body and dispersal of the remains?

Doctors would be forensically aware which would explain why it necessitated Gerry McCann's trip back home to get a DNA sample which raises the question as to how a child can be in an apartment for several days & leave no trace.

In the context of what could have been been readily available, the best forensic way to 99% guarantee that a body can't be found would be by cremation & doctors would be well aware of this.

I can't say 100% because there's the chance that if all the ashes of the people cremated around that time were still in urns then it would be possible to identify Madeleine's DNA.

But I bet that this is another line of inquiry that's not been checked out.

I checked out the extracting dna from cremated ashes via Mr Google and i got the impression that dna was almost always destroyed in the cremation process. I agree with you Roidininki that any cremation would have to be after the hire car evidence and I thought that the body awaiting cremation in the church was prior to car hire. So not too sure about Madeleine being cremated, in my opinion. But it would be just about the best way to dispose of a body so that the perpetrators could be certain it would never be found, which is the impression we have from TM.

sharonl wrote:

Roidininki wrote:How can it be possible that the dogs alerted to the hire car if a cremation earlier had taken place ?

When did the cremation take place?

Was the car hired by anyone connected to the McCanns prior to them hiring it

For the physical body to leave cadaver and fluids in the hire car, the cremation would have to be sometime later than 'alert night', but the same can be said for ANY method of disposal.
Alternatively, it could be that the body was never transported in the hire car, but the missing 'blue bag' or other container/wrapping was.
One things for sure... in order for the hire car to need airing out for several days with the tailgate left open day and night, there must have been something left in there.  It was two or three weeks into the investigation, so I personally don't believe it would be the entire body.... Far too risky.

tara wrote:I checked out the extracting dna from cremated ashes via Mr Google and i got the impression that dna was almost always destroyed in the cremation process. I agree with you Roidininki that any cremation would have to be after the hire car evidence and I thought that the body awaiting cremation in the church was prior to car hire. So not too sure about Madeleine being cremated, in my opinion. But it would be just about the best way to dispose of a body so that the perpetrators could be certain it would never be found, which is the impression we have from TM.

Not so regarding DNA from cremated remains.

Whilst all flesh is burnt, all bones are not which is why the cremated remains have to be ground down before being placed into the urn.

It may be more difficult to check than a sample from a corpse but my point is that I bet it wasn't even considered.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Philip Anders wrote:

tara wrote:I checked out the extracting dna from cremated ashes via Mr Google and i got the impression that dna was almost always destroyed in the cremation process. I agree with you Roidininki that any cremation would have to be after the hire car evidence and I thought that the body awaiting cremation in the church was prior to car hire. So not too sure about Madeleine being cremated, in my opinion. But it would be just about the best way to dispose of a body so that the perpetrators could be certain it would never be found, which is the impression we have from TM.

Not so regarding DNA from cremated remains.

Whilst all flesh is burnt, all bones are not which is why the cremated remains have to be ground down before being placed into the urn.

It may be more difficult to check than a sample from a corpse but my point is that I bet it wasn't even considered.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Thank you Philip Anders for the link. Very interesting to see how things move on with time.
There is mention of teeth. To find baby teeth in the cremains of an older woman would be very telling.

Nina wrote:

Philip Anders wrote:

tara wrote:I checked out the extracting dna from cremated ashes via Mr Google and i got the impression that dna was almost always destroyed in the cremation process. I agree with you Roidininki that any cremation would have to be after the hire car evidence and I thought that the body awaiting cremation in the church was prior to car hire. So not too sure about Madeleine being cremated, in my opinion. But it would be just about the best way to dispose of a body so that the perpetrators could be certain it would never be found, which is the impression we have from TM.

Not so regarding DNA from cremated remains.

Whilst all flesh is burnt, all bones are not which is why the cremated remains have to be ground down before being placed into the urn.

It may be more difficult to check than a sample from a corpse but my point is that I bet it wasn't even considered.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Thank you Philip Anders for the link. Very interesting to see how things move on with time.
There is mention of teeth. To find baby teeth in the cremains of an older woman would be very telling.

It would be very telling.

Also it wouldn't be necessary to get an exact DNA match because the fact that a child had been cremated in the same coffin would be very strong circumstantial evidence. Certainly enough for charges & a trial.

Thank you Philip Anders. That is interesting as the general consensus seemed no dna left after cremation but I did come across one piece which stated it is sometimes possible to extract dna. Good to hear from one who knows. Does it make a difference whether it is child or adult bones? I wonder also whether a child's bones may be softer and dna more likely to degrade more in incineration. If cremation was the chosen disposal one just hopes the ashes are still in the urn somewhere.

plebgate wrote:@Roid
It has been said that someone saw three figures going into the church with a carrying a box and this person took a photograph.
Maybe that photograph hasn't been released?

Yes I'm aware of that story but is the mention that a photograph exists just a bluff ?

tara wrote:Thank you Philip Anders. That is interesting as the general consensus seemed no dna left after cremation but I did come across one piece which stated it is sometimes possible to extract dna. Good to hear from one who knows. Does it make a difference whether it is child or adult bones? I wonder also whether a child's bones may be softer and dna more likely to degrade more in incineration. If cremation was the chosen disposal one just hopes the ashes are still in the urn somewhere.

For a criminal conviction to succeed the prosecution doesn't have to prove 100% that something has happened, it has to prove beyond reasonable doubt so if a cremation had taken place in Praia within the timescale & there were two  lots of different human DNA then, irrespective of how much detail was extracted, it would certainly take some explaining.

The teeth do not get burnt to ash because of the protective enamel and it may be possible to extract DNA from inside said tooth.
Bones also do not all burn down to ash and after cremation the remains are placed in a cremulator (grinder) so the remains are ground down to a fine powder.

If the ashes were spread then all hope of identification is lost.
If the ashes were placed in an urn and conserved then it is unlikley there would be any DNA although it might vary depending on how the cremation was done, the temps achieved and how the remains were then processed.

If there were surviving teeth then the size of the teeth would indicate a child since she would have had all her milk teeth and if she was placed in a coffin with an adult that is an instant giveaway since adults do not (or rarely) have milk teeth.