Madeleine Beth McCann: Justice or Cover-up?

by **Jill Havern** 02.04.17 7:18

I thought I would start a new Poll, in the light of the Supreme Court Judgment, to see what the general feeling is now about Operation Grange since they've had another six-month extension and a further boost to their funding.

Once again, there is no third option (3. Don't know) as none of us know - we can only go by our gut feeling about whether there will be a cover-up or whether we feel justice will prevail for Madeleine Beth McCann.

by Phoebe 02.04.17 10:17

With a heavy heart I voted cover-up. I wish I could believe otherwise but I really fear a Ben Needham conclusion. There would be egg on too many powerful faces, from politicians to police, to admit at this stage that they could have got it wrong. There will be a brief backlash at the waste of money on Grange (which produced nothing) when it shuts up shop, but I fear they will brazen it. After this 10th anniversary the parents will become less visible and will hope that the story fades with passing years. I wouldn't be surprised at a move overseas for a period for "career" purposes and in the twins interests.

by **Nina** 02.04.17 10:42

Phoebe wrote:With a heavy heart I voted cover-up. I wish I could believe otherwise but I really fear a Ben Needham conclusion. There would be egg on too many powerful faces, from politicians to police, to admit at this stage that they could have got it wrong. There will be a brief backlash at the waste of money on Grange (which produced nothing) when it shuts up shop, but I fear they will brazen it. After this 10th anniversary the parents will become less visible and will hope that the story fades with passing years. I wouldn't be surprised at a move overseas for a period for "career" purposes and in the twins interests.

I agree with every word you say here. The only thing I would add is that I believe their move overseas will not be within the EU.

by Bayonne 02.04.17 10:49

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I agree too. I also see a move abroad on the cards maybe as far as China. Part of me fears that this cover up runs so far and deep that the truth will never be uncovered but another part of me feels that perhaps...once the pot runs dry...one or two of the many, many people that have been covering this up will let greed get the better of them.

by Phoebe 02.04.17 11:07

Agreed Nina, U.SA. or Canada perhaps. The problem is, (without wanting to appear melodramatic) when Grange ends, the chances are that's it. Only Portugal could then continue and they've already seen how well the McCs are protected. The fat lady hasn't actually begun to sing yet, but she is clearing her throat. These 6 months may be the last gasp opportunity to push for justice. I see, on another thread, heated debate re. the petitions for lie detector tests and negligence charges, and the real fear that those calling for these will be dismissed as cranks and nutters. What about, as has been mooted, a petition calling for a properly convened reconstruction organised by both P.J. and S.Y. and also a joint a re-interviewing of all involved before Grange ends? That is a reasonable, understandable request, given that Grange has cost the tax-payer so much and made no progress. Surely it would publicly put the ball in the court of government and police and a refusal to consider something costing so little (which could be of enormous help in moving the investigation along) would take some awkward explaining.

by **Jill Havern** 02.04.17 12:43

Nina wrote:
Phoebe wrote:With a heavy heart I voted cover-up. I wish I could believe otherwise but I really fear a Ben Needham conclusion. There would be egg on too many powerful faces, from politicians to police, to admit at this stage that they could have got it wrong. There will be a brief backlash at the waste of money on Grange (which produced nothing) when it shuts up shop, but I fear they will brazen it. After this 10th anniversary the parents will become less visible and will hope that the story fades with passing years. I wouldn't be surprised at a move overseas for a period for "career" purposes and in the twins interests.
I agree with every word you say here. The only thing I would add is that I believe their move overseas will not be within the EU.

It doesn't matter where they go, they'll still be the notorious doctors who have NOT been cleared of hiding their childs corpse, staging an abduction and perverting the course of justice, fraudulently obtaining millions of pounds of donations which they spent on mortgage payments and legal action to silence doubters.

They are known all around the world, thanks to the internet - and their own globetrotting efforts, of course. You only have to look at the rotating globe in the right hand side bar, that I added a couple of weeks ago, to see which parts of the world are logging in to this forum. And that's only one site out of the many thousands who are discussing this case.There is no escape for them and no matter where they go people will still look at them, photograph them, and talk about them.

That is the legacy they have chosen for the twins.
And if they go to Canada, then they'd better beware of HiDeHo and her videos! big grin

by pennylane 02.04.17 13:15

Get'emGonçalo wrote:
Nina wrote:
Phoebe wrote:With a heavy heart I voted cover-up. I wish I could believe otherwise but I really fear a Ben Needham conclusion. There would be egg on too many powerful faces, from politicians to police, to admit at this stage that they could have got it wrong. There will be a brief backlash at the waste of money on Grange (which produced nothing) when it shuts up shop, but I fear they will brazen it. After this 10th anniversary the parents will become less visible and will hope that the story fades with passing years. I wouldn't be surprised at a move overseas for a period for "career" purposes and in the twins interests.
I agree with every word you say here. The only thing I would add is that I believe their move overseas will not be within the EU.
It doesn't matter where they go, they'll still be the notorious doctors who have NOT been cleared of hiding their childs corpse, staging an abduction and perverting the course of justice, fraudulently obtaining millions of pounds of donations which they spent on mortgage payments and legal action to silence doubters.

They are known all around the world, thanks to the internet - and their own globetrotting efforts, of course. You only have to look at the rotating globe in the right hand side bar, that I added a couple of weeks ago, to see which parts of the world are logging in to this forum. And that's only one site out of the many thousands who are discussing this case.There is no escape for them and no matter where they go people will still look at them, photograph them, and talk about them.

That is the legacy they have chosen for the twins.
And if they go to Canada, then they'd better beware of HiDeHo and her videos!

And if they go to America, I'm sure Pat Brown will give them a vigorous welcome
to the land of free speech! winkwink

by MTSTAR 02.04.17 14:33

Get'emGonçalo wrote:
Nina wrote:
Phoebe wrote:Hi With a heavy heart I voted cover-up. I wish I could believe otherwise but I really fear a Ben Needham conclusion. There would be egg on too many powerful faces, from politicians to police, to admit at this stage that they could have got it wrong. There will be a brief backlash at the waste of money on Grange (which produced nothing) when it shuts up shop, but I fear they will brazen it. After this 10th anniversary the parents will become less visible and will hope that the story fades with passing years. I wouldn't be surprised at a move overseas for a period for "career" purposes and in the twins interests.
I agree with every word you say here. The only thing I would add is that I believe their move overseas will not be within the EU.
It doesn't matter where they go, they'll still be the notorious doctors who have NOT been cleared of hiding their childs corpse, staging an abduction and perverting the course of justice, fraudulently obtaining millions of pounds of donations which they spent on mortgage payments and legal action to silence doubters.

They are known all around the world, thanks to the internet - and their own globetrotting efforts, of course. You only have to look at the rotating globe in the right hand side bar, that I added a couple of weeks ago, to see which parts of the world are logging in to this forum. And that's only one site out of the many thousands who are discussing this case.There is no escape for them and no matter where they go people will still look at them, photograph them, and talk about them.

That is the legacy they have chosen for the twins.
And if they go to Canada, then they'd better beware of HiDeHo and her videos!

Wow, people all over the world are looking at this forum. Wherever they decide to go, they'll never escape public scrutiny. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Bunnykins 02.04.17 20:17

Phoebe wrote: What about, as has been mooted, a petition calling for a properly convened reconstruction organised by both P.J. and S.Y. and also a joint a re-interviewing of all involved before Grange ends? That is a reasonable, understandable request, given that Grange has cost the tax-payer so much and made no progress. Surely it would publicly put the ball in the court of government and police and a refusal to consider something costing so little (which could be of enormous help in moving the investigation along) would take some awkward explaining.

That would be the best idea. There'd be a few red faces if it went ahead and K, G & Tapas gang refused to help the enquiry...again...All the more embarrassing for them as the 10th anniversary approaches and the media spotlight is on again. Good opportunity to expose any liars.

by MrsC 03.04.17 9:06

I voted cover up.

I don't believe they will face justice by way of the law.

I do believe they will face natural justice.

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by wills 03.04.17 15:11

I will go for cover up, as already posted here, too many high ups involved to come clean now imo. There is one possibility though, that a person knowing the truth and participated in the 'abduction' scenario, and there are quite a few, might realise that for health reasons or whatever, may be soon to meet their Maker. One does not have to be particuarly religious to be afraid of this possible event either. Perhaps they may feel it better to come clean whilst here than face an uncertain 'future' in the next realm. It would make me think long and hard.

by jeanmonroe 03.04.17 16:00

'slightly' OT.

Now that GA has won AGAIN, against the litigious McS, is there 'anything' to stop DCI Wall from 'contacting' him, 'officially/unofficially' (SIO to former SIO, working/worked on a 'missing' child case) and 'discussing' erm, 'events' to date?

She wasn't 'there' at the 'outset', he WAS.

What 'harm' could a 'meeting' possibly do?

She will be well 'aware', that 'serving MET police officers' (maybe even 'officers' she knows!) contributed, handsomely, £1,000 GBP, towards his 'defence', regarding the 'people' he, and the PJ, suspected of committing a 'crime'.

BOTH have 'stated' their 'aim' is to get 'justice' for Madeleine, haven't they?

DCI Wall will also be well aware, that her ONLY 'job', as the SIO@OG, is to 'investigate, to the best of her ability, without ill will or malice, and without fear or favour' the 'disappearance' of a 3 years old child,

NO MATTER WHOSE 'DOOR', HER 'INVESTIGATION' MAY LEAD TO!

by **Nina** 03.04.17 16:28

jeanmonroe wrote:'slightly' OT.

Now that GA has won AGAIN, against the litigious McS, is there 'anything' to stop DCI Wall from 'contacting' him, 'officially/unofficially' (SIO to former SIO, working/worked on a 'missing' child case) and 'discussing' erm, 'events' to date?

She wasn't 'there' at the 'outset', he WAS.

What 'harm' could a 'meeting' possibly do?

She will be well 'aware', that 'serving MET police officers' contributed towards his 'defence', regarding the 'people' he, and the PJ, suspected of committing a 'crime'.

BOTH have 'stated' their 'aim' is to get 'justice' for Madeleine, haven't they?

DCI Wall will also be well aware, that her ONLY 'job' is to 'investigate, without ill will or malice, and without fear or favour' the 'disappearance' of a 3 years old child,

NO MATTER WHOSE 'DOOR', HER 'INVESTIGATION' MAY LEAD TO!

What an excellent post @jeanmomroe and a brilliant idea too goodpost

by Phoebe 03.04.17 16:55

Woah! Does that mean that G.A and other P.J./G.N.R. officers who were involved have not been interviewed at length by Op.Grange? If so that is extraordinary. In the case of Sophie Tuscan du Plantier (french national, found murdered in Ireland in '96) the French judge and his team on Irish visits (investigating re pressing charges in France against a suspect) interviewed all officers, both serving and retired, especially those who headed the investigation in'96, on more than one occasion. Surely Grange has done the same?

by suespeaking 03.04.17 18:07

Cover up or cock up! whatever happens it is a complete waste of money going to Portugal to interview suspects when the people who need to be interviewed and answer serious questions are here in the UK and REFUSE to answer any questions that do not fit the truth they want believed

by wills 03.04.17 18:44

Well it may well be a waste of money in our eyes, but a 5 star hotel for the summer, all meals paid for and very possibly free vino whilst they discuss their 'developements'. And of course expense allowances. I bet there is a raffle going on to be included in the Grange op. at police hq. Perhaps it is a bonus holiday for outstanding service to the public.

by coati mundi 03.04.17 22:14

Could not OG not even consider questioning the McCanns and their fellow tapas eaters on the lines of,

"Is there anything you can remember about that night or indeed the days leading up to that night that you think might be of help to this enquiry? Something you forgot or neglected to mention at the time? Something you have remembered since?

They could also ask David Payne about the matters that he wouldn't discuss in the "wrong forum" and whether he is prepared to discuss them now.

However, I have to think - some hope of that, eh?

All in my opinion, of course.

by coati mundi 04.04.17 0:00

Off topic a bit but just seen a fascinatingly familiar faked abduction story in an episode of the US cop drama "Law and Order- Special Victims Unit", However, you can tell it's fiction because the cops almost immediately focus on the parents and discover the truth.

Incredibly (some people who shall remain nameless would love this bit to happen) they let them go as "they have suffered enough" !

by pennylane 04.04.17 10:44

I would love to see justice prevail but having followed events over the years, I fear the Home Office deliberately scuppered this investigation in its infancy, also sending Clarence Mitchell to confuse and destroy the facts emerging, and then further attempted to shut down the truth via Operation Grange by issuing a highly suspicious 'abduction' remit for them to investigate.

If The Home Office via Operation Grange were to change direction for some obscure reason, and really investigate the parents' dodgy version of events, that would be a great day indeed, but from what I have seen up to this day, that notion seems painfully remote!

by Carrry On Doctor 05.04.17 10:15

Comment on textusa blog....interesting article I thought

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"She must therefore decide who is her boss — the Home Secretary or the people of London."

Worth a read
Mentions M case briefly
Sets out political reality re Met and Home Secretary

by tara 05.04.17 21:03

In my opinion the government are very naive in their assessment of the intelligence of the public: I believe that the majority of the public who research and study and follow diligently the tragic 'disappearance' of innocent, little Madeleine Mc Cann are quite certain the case is one huge cover up. The public, together with many professionals, all with a passionate desire to see justice for Madeleine know, beyond doubt, who is responsible and who is perverting the course of justice, in my opinion.