A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT CMOMM – ANSWERED (24 March 2017)
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A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT CMOMM – ANSWERED (24 March 2017)
by Tony Bennett 24.03.17 22:44
A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT CMOMM – ANSWERED (24 March 2017)
A few days ago, a former member here, ‘Andrew’, a member of MMM forum, posted up a list of questions over there for me and for CMOMM to answer. They have since been posted elsewhere on the internet. Andrew was banned from here, and there is a bit of history. However, it would serve no purpose to go into any of that. People will make their own assessment of the motives for Andrew’s questions, but I am happy to answer them all with a straight bat. Questions from Andrew in black, answers in blue. Here we go:
----------
Andrew: CMoMM purports to 'support' Goncalo Amaral but then steers everyone away from his actual thesis...?
ANSWER: As you well know, CMoMM backs Goncalo Amaral 100% and has done so in a number of practical ways. Most recently it heavily promoted the GoFundMe project. A translation of ‘The Truth of the Lie’ is available on the forum. Jill, the forum owner, spent a lot of time creating a blog for Amaral, having obtained permission from AnnaEsse. In addition, the Madeleine Foundation paid for part of his second Madeleine book, ‘The English Gag’, to be translated, and that can be read on CMoMM as well. His main thesis is constantly supported by those who run the forum and its members. No-one on CMoMM ‘steers everyone away’ from Amaral’s thesis. While I was Secretary of the Madeleine Foundation, over £1,500 of our funds were transferred, in three separate tranches, to the PJGA project to support his legal defence fund. In addition, the forum owner, many of our members and I (£100 in my case) made personal donations to the GoFundMe project.
Andrew: According to CMoMM then Goncalo and the whole PJ investigation team got it totally wrong....?
ANSWER: Those who run CMoMM and its members consider that Amaral and his investigation team basically formed a correct assessment of what really happened to Madeleine McCann, as set out in the Interim Report of Tavares de Almeida and in Amaral's book. Where some of us part company with him is over his acceptance of the evidence of Catriona Baker that she was with Madeleine at a high tea around 5pm-6pm on Thursday 3 May. Further, some of us suggest that Amaral and his team were not aware that Nuno Lourenco's statement about an alleged kidnapper trying to take his daughter from outside a cake shop in Sagres was a wholesale fabrication. We do not criticise him for those errors, since they were made in ignorance of many things that have come to light since July 2008.
Andrew: According to CMoMM the key (independent) main witnesses were all liars....?
ANSWER: I am not aware of any independent witness who lied, nor of any CMOMM member who has suggested that any independent witness has lied.
Some of us have expressed doubt about the truth of a number of witness statements, but in each case the witness cannot be considered genuinely independent. To give specific examples:
Martin Smith cannot be considered ‘independent’ as he and his family have admitted that he ‘met Robert Murat several times over at least two years’.
Mrs Pamela Fenn cannot be considered ‘independent’ as she and Mrs Jennifer Murat were both long-term ex-pat residents of Praia da Luz who served on the local Residents Committee.
Catriona Baker cannot be considered as ‘independent’ as there is evidence that she was already known to the McCanns prior to April 2007.
Nuno Lourenco cannot be considered ‘independent’ as it is very clear from what we now know that he must have colluded with Jane Tanner, either directly or indirectly via a third party, to put Wojchiech Krokowski in the frame as Madeleine’s abductor. Goncalo Amaral clearly admit that Jane Tanner and Nuno Lourenco put Krokowski in the frame in a passage of ‘The Truth of the Lie’, where he notes the extraordinarily close similarity between their respective descriptions of a phantom abductor.
He noted for example that both said the man ‘did not look like a tourist’. Leaving aside for a moment what a tourist is supposed to look like at 9pm-10pm of a May evening in Portugal, it is notable that Martin Smith’s description of the man he said he had seen was also virtually identical to those of Jane Tanner and Nuno Lourenco. Indeed, Kate McCann made a big thing of this in her book, ‘madeleine’, devoting three whole pages of it to describing how ‘strikingly similar Smithman was to Tannerman. Two years earlier, in 2009 in what has been called the Channel 4 ‘Mockumentary, both Kate and Gerry McCann made the very same claim: ‘Smithman = Tannerman.’
Andrew: According to CMoMM then half of Portugal were in on it....?
ANSWER: I have repeatedly shown on CMoMM that if there was a cover-up, it could have been achieved with just the Tapas 9 and one or two Ocean Club/Mark Warner staff knowing what really happened.
According to CMoMM Madeleine had to have died of the 29th....?
ANSWER: Members on CMOMM have raised these evidential issues. How should they be interpreted? -
1 probability the ‘Last Photo’ was taken on Sunday 29th
2 no other photo from that holiday that can be proved to have been taken after that
3 absence of Madeleine's DNA in the apartment
4 lack of credible evidence of independent sightings of Madeleine after Sunday
5 Madeleine's actual pyjamas held up at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007
6 Nuno Lourenco's clearly planned-in-advance fabrication of his child nearly being kidnapped by Wojchiech Krokowski
7 multiple & irreconcilable contradictions about the alleged 'high tea' said to have taken place at 5pm-6pm on 3 May
8 multiple contradictions in the evidence of the McCanns and the Tapas 7 about events after Sunday 29th
9 the McCanns' change of routines and behaviour after Sunday e.g. only one parent seen with the twins, parents leaving by different doors
10 the sheer unlikelihood that the Tapas group could all sit down for dinner together at 8.30pm that evening having decided to hide Madeleine's body, clean up the apartment, find a hiding place for her body etc.
Andrew: According to CMoMM the 'last photo' was in no way tampered with (apart from the date)
ANSWER: There have been literally dozens of different suggestions as to how the ‘Last Photo’ was photoshopped. They were all no doubt made in good faith, but all disagreed with each other. One says this bit was photoshopped, another says that bit was photoshopped, and so on. This tends to prove that none of the suggestions is correct. Besides that, two international digital photo experts and several photo experts on CMoMM agree there is no photoshopping whatsoever of the Last Photo.
Andrew: According to CMoMM then they know a lot more than Goncalo (who had access to ALL the files).
ANSWER: All of us now know a very considerable amount more than Goncalo Amaral did when he was removed from the investigation on 2 October 2007. This is due in part to excellent research and analysis on CM0MM and by a whole swathe of other Madeleine forums, websites, blogs and individuals who have pooled their information and ideas.
Andrew: Why is it so important to rubbish Goncalo's theory....?
ANSWER: CMoMM members do not question his overall theory, but some suggest he fell into error over a couple of details, as a result of having insufficient information at the time he was removed from his post.
Andrew: Why is it so important to discredit the Smith sighting...?
ANSWER: An important part of any criminal investigation is to assess each witness as to whether they are telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth - or not. What some of us have done is to present multiple lines of evidence that Martin Smith and his children were not reliable witnesses. Despite claims by some that no debate is allowed here on Smithman, any visitor to any one of the nine ‘Smithman’ threads can see for themselves that there is healthy and polite debate on the subject. Smithman is a very important subject and I always invite people to look at the evidence I’ve presented in my OPs on the Smithman threads.
Andrew: Why is it so important to discredit Mrs Fenn....?
ANSWER: Similarly, a patient examination of the claims that Mrs Fenn made in a statement made on 20 August, 3½ months after Madeleine was reported missing, reveals major doubts about two alleged incidents she referred to : (a) hearing a child ’not under two’ crying loudly for 75 minutes and (b) a burglary, whose date and details were both very uncertain. I think it’s relevant to look at the background to her making her statement. It was made during a period of feverish activity by the McCann Team when news of the visit of Martin Grime and his dogs to Praia da Luz in early August was leaked to the press. In addition, two days before Mrs Fenn made her statement, several British newspapers, primed by a ‘source’, told the British public exactly what Mrs Fenn was going to tell the police two days later.
Andrew; Why is it so important to maintain the last photo has not been doctored...?
ANSWER: Because all the expert evidence is that there is no evidence of photoshopping. And the truth is important. The weather conditions on the photo match Sunday, and no other day, so the working assumption must be that someone changed the EXIF data on the camera to make it look like the photo was taken on Thursday.
Andrew: Why is it so important to create 7100 plus members when you have no more than 10/20 that actually post...?
ANSWER: Of course, no members are 'created'. It’s surprising you ask this question at a time when, over the past month, any moment you click on the CMoMM home page in the evening, you will see anywhere between 400 and 1,300 viewers online. A quick check of the last week’s stats shows that 367 members have logged into the site and 102 have posted on the forum. Like many other forums, people don't have to log in to read if they don't want to. And, of course, many people use CMOMM to research, or to view links that have been posted on CMoMM facebook, which means they don't need to post anything on the forum - they simply choose to post their comments in the CMoMM facebook community.
Andrew: And why do you literally stick 2 fingers up at Goncalo with all and everything he has said and gone through...?
ANSWER: That question is not worthy of an answer.
Andrew: ... Genuine questions, CMoMM - can you reply please and give an honest answer to all of the above.... In blue if it suits?
And I don't want any mud-slinging, false accusations, discrediting, libellous comments, delving into my personal life as you've done your utmost before...
Let's have the cards on the table for all to see and give some honest explanations.......
....And to try and prove me wrong (and everyone else who is suspicious) that CMoMM doesn't have an agenda going on....
You get the majority of your 'latest news' from me so at least have the courtesy to answer some very simple and honest questions.
Cheers in advance and look forward to an in-depth and honest response.
ANSWER: You have my responses. I won’t be answering any more of your questions though. At the end of the day it is the truth that matters - and anyone researching the evidence has a duty to search for and accept good evidence - and reject evidence that, under scrutiny, does not pass muster. That is what we’ve been doing for well over 7 years – and why CMoMM is deservedly so popular.
.
A few days ago, a former member here, ‘Andrew’, a member of MMM forum, posted up a list of questions over there for me and for CMOMM to answer. They have since been posted elsewhere on the internet. Andrew was banned from here, and there is a bit of history. However, it would serve no purpose to go into any of that. People will make their own assessment of the motives for Andrew’s questions, but I am happy to answer them all with a straight bat. Questions from Andrew in black, answers in blue. Here we go:
----------
Andrew: CMoMM purports to 'support' Goncalo Amaral but then steers everyone away from his actual thesis...?
ANSWER: As you well know, CMoMM backs Goncalo Amaral 100% and has done so in a number of practical ways. Most recently it heavily promoted the GoFundMe project. A translation of ‘The Truth of the Lie’ is available on the forum. Jill, the forum owner, spent a lot of time creating a blog for Amaral, having obtained permission from AnnaEsse. In addition, the Madeleine Foundation paid for part of his second Madeleine book, ‘The English Gag’, to be translated, and that can be read on CMoMM as well. His main thesis is constantly supported by those who run the forum and its members. No-one on CMoMM ‘steers everyone away’ from Amaral’s thesis. While I was Secretary of the Madeleine Foundation, over £1,500 of our funds were transferred, in three separate tranches, to the PJGA project to support his legal defence fund. In addition, the forum owner, many of our members and I (£100 in my case) made personal donations to the GoFundMe project.
Andrew: According to CMoMM then Goncalo and the whole PJ investigation team got it totally wrong....?
ANSWER: Those who run CMoMM and its members consider that Amaral and his investigation team basically formed a correct assessment of what really happened to Madeleine McCann, as set out in the Interim Report of Tavares de Almeida and in Amaral's book. Where some of us part company with him is over his acceptance of the evidence of Catriona Baker that she was with Madeleine at a high tea around 5pm-6pm on Thursday 3 May. Further, some of us suggest that Amaral and his team were not aware that Nuno Lourenco's statement about an alleged kidnapper trying to take his daughter from outside a cake shop in Sagres was a wholesale fabrication. We do not criticise him for those errors, since they were made in ignorance of many things that have come to light since July 2008.
Andrew: According to CMoMM the key (independent) main witnesses were all liars....?
ANSWER: I am not aware of any independent witness who lied, nor of any CMOMM member who has suggested that any independent witness has lied.
Some of us have expressed doubt about the truth of a number of witness statements, but in each case the witness cannot be considered genuinely independent. To give specific examples:
Martin Smith cannot be considered ‘independent’ as he and his family have admitted that he ‘met Robert Murat several times over at least two years’.
Mrs Pamela Fenn cannot be considered ‘independent’ as she and Mrs Jennifer Murat were both long-term ex-pat residents of Praia da Luz who served on the local Residents Committee.
Catriona Baker cannot be considered as ‘independent’ as there is evidence that she was already known to the McCanns prior to April 2007.
Nuno Lourenco cannot be considered ‘independent’ as it is very clear from what we now know that he must have colluded with Jane Tanner, either directly or indirectly via a third party, to put Wojchiech Krokowski in the frame as Madeleine’s abductor. Goncalo Amaral clearly admit that Jane Tanner and Nuno Lourenco put Krokowski in the frame in a passage of ‘The Truth of the Lie’, where he notes the extraordinarily close similarity between their respective descriptions of a phantom abductor.
He noted for example that both said the man ‘did not look like a tourist’. Leaving aside for a moment what a tourist is supposed to look like at 9pm-10pm of a May evening in Portugal, it is notable that Martin Smith’s description of the man he said he had seen was also virtually identical to those of Jane Tanner and Nuno Lourenco. Indeed, Kate McCann made a big thing of this in her book, ‘madeleine’, devoting three whole pages of it to describing how ‘strikingly similar Smithman was to Tannerman. Two years earlier, in 2009 in what has been called the Channel 4 ‘Mockumentary, both Kate and Gerry McCann made the very same claim: ‘Smithman = Tannerman.’
Andrew: According to CMoMM then half of Portugal were in on it....?
ANSWER: I have repeatedly shown on CMoMM that if there was a cover-up, it could have been achieved with just the Tapas 9 and one or two Ocean Club/Mark Warner staff knowing what really happened.
According to CMoMM Madeleine had to have died of the 29th....?
ANSWER: Members on CMOMM have raised these evidential issues. How should they be interpreted? -
1 probability the ‘Last Photo’ was taken on Sunday 29th
2 no other photo from that holiday that can be proved to have been taken after that
3 absence of Madeleine's DNA in the apartment
4 lack of credible evidence of independent sightings of Madeleine after Sunday
5 Madeleine's actual pyjamas held up at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007
6 Nuno Lourenco's clearly planned-in-advance fabrication of his child nearly being kidnapped by Wojchiech Krokowski
7 multiple & irreconcilable contradictions about the alleged 'high tea' said to have taken place at 5pm-6pm on 3 May
8 multiple contradictions in the evidence of the McCanns and the Tapas 7 about events after Sunday 29th
9 the McCanns' change of routines and behaviour after Sunday e.g. only one parent seen with the twins, parents leaving by different doors
10 the sheer unlikelihood that the Tapas group could all sit down for dinner together at 8.30pm that evening having decided to hide Madeleine's body, clean up the apartment, find a hiding place for her body etc.
Andrew: According to CMoMM the 'last photo' was in no way tampered with (apart from the date)
ANSWER: There have been literally dozens of different suggestions as to how the ‘Last Photo’ was photoshopped. They were all no doubt made in good faith, but all disagreed with each other. One says this bit was photoshopped, another says that bit was photoshopped, and so on. This tends to prove that none of the suggestions is correct. Besides that, two international digital photo experts and several photo experts on CMoMM agree there is no photoshopping whatsoever of the Last Photo.
Andrew: According to CMoMM then they know a lot more than Goncalo (who had access to ALL the files).
ANSWER: All of us now know a very considerable amount more than Goncalo Amaral did when he was removed from the investigation on 2 October 2007. This is due in part to excellent research and analysis on CM0MM and by a whole swathe of other Madeleine forums, websites, blogs and individuals who have pooled their information and ideas.
Andrew: Why is it so important to rubbish Goncalo's theory....?
ANSWER: CMoMM members do not question his overall theory, but some suggest he fell into error over a couple of details, as a result of having insufficient information at the time he was removed from his post.
Andrew: Why is it so important to discredit the Smith sighting...?
ANSWER: An important part of any criminal investigation is to assess each witness as to whether they are telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth - or not. What some of us have done is to present multiple lines of evidence that Martin Smith and his children were not reliable witnesses. Despite claims by some that no debate is allowed here on Smithman, any visitor to any one of the nine ‘Smithman’ threads can see for themselves that there is healthy and polite debate on the subject. Smithman is a very important subject and I always invite people to look at the evidence I’ve presented in my OPs on the Smithman threads.
Andrew: Why is it so important to discredit Mrs Fenn....?
ANSWER: Similarly, a patient examination of the claims that Mrs Fenn made in a statement made on 20 August, 3½ months after Madeleine was reported missing, reveals major doubts about two alleged incidents she referred to : (a) hearing a child ’not under two’ crying loudly for 75 minutes and (b) a burglary, whose date and details were both very uncertain. I think it’s relevant to look at the background to her making her statement. It was made during a period of feverish activity by the McCann Team when news of the visit of Martin Grime and his dogs to Praia da Luz in early August was leaked to the press. In addition, two days before Mrs Fenn made her statement, several British newspapers, primed by a ‘source’, told the British public exactly what Mrs Fenn was going to tell the police two days later.
Andrew; Why is it so important to maintain the last photo has not been doctored...?
ANSWER: Because all the expert evidence is that there is no evidence of photoshopping. And the truth is important. The weather conditions on the photo match Sunday, and no other day, so the working assumption must be that someone changed the EXIF data on the camera to make it look like the photo was taken on Thursday.
Andrew: Why is it so important to create 7100 plus members when you have no more than 10/20 that actually post...?
ANSWER: Of course, no members are 'created'. It’s surprising you ask this question at a time when, over the past month, any moment you click on the CMoMM home page in the evening, you will see anywhere between 400 and 1,300 viewers online. A quick check of the last week’s stats shows that 367 members have logged into the site and 102 have posted on the forum. Like many other forums, people don't have to log in to read if they don't want to. And, of course, many people use CMOMM to research, or to view links that have been posted on CMoMM facebook, which means they don't need to post anything on the forum - they simply choose to post their comments in the CMoMM facebook community.
Andrew: And why do you literally stick 2 fingers up at Goncalo with all and everything he has said and gone through...?
ANSWER: That question is not worthy of an answer.
Andrew: ... Genuine questions, CMoMM - can you reply please and give an honest answer to all of the above.... In blue if it suits?
And I don't want any mud-slinging, false accusations, discrediting, libellous comments, delving into my personal life as you've done your utmost before...
Let's have the cards on the table for all to see and give some honest explanations.......
....And to try and prove me wrong (and everyone else who is suspicious) that CMoMM doesn't have an agenda going on....
You get the majority of your 'latest news' from me so at least have the courtesy to answer some very simple and honest questions.
Cheers in advance and look forward to an in-depth and honest response.
ANSWER: You have my responses. I won’t be answering any more of your questions though. At the end of the day it is the truth that matters - and anyone researching the evidence has a duty to search for and accept good evidence - and reject evidence that, under scrutiny, does not pass muster. That is what we’ve been doing for well over 7 years – and why CMoMM is deservedly so popular.
.
____________________
Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"
Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".
Tony Bennett- Researcher
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Re: A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT CMOMM – ANSWERED (24 March 2017)
by Guest 24.03.17 23:43
I wouldn't be here if this forum wasn't earnest.
I've been around forums and I've been disappointed.
I don't care what anyone else thinks about this forum, it seeks the truth in an evidence based credible way.
Thanks Jill and thanks Tony (and everyone else).
I've been around forums and I've been disappointed.
I don't care what anyone else thinks about this forum, it seeks the truth in an evidence based credible way.
Thanks Jill and thanks Tony (and everyone else).
Guest- Guest
Re: A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT CMOMM – ANSWERED (24 March 2017)
by Guest 25.03.17 8:27
I am a new member of the forum, but I was not aware that I gained a whole set of beliefs when I pressed the enter key on the sign up screen. Neither did I find a statement of belief that I had to agree to.
How can a forum "believe" anything? And how can anyone know what members believe? Even in the time I have been lurking it is obvious that not all members believe that Madeleine died before the 3rd May.
I don't understand the history, but these questions make no sense to me.
---------------
A Moderator answers: You wrote: "I was not aware that I gained a whole set of beliefs when I pressed the enter key on the sign up screen. Neither did I find a statement of belief that I had to agree to". The prime purpose of the forum, as is stated openly on the home page, is to search for the truth about what really happened to Madeleine McCann. To take the Last Photo as an example, thorough research over a period of time on several threads here established, in the minds of nearly all members, that it had NOT been photoshopped (as many claimed) but was very likely a genuine photo taken on Sunday 29 April and not Thursday 3 May. That is why we have this statement very clearly set out on the home page:
We are all here to search for the truth. If, for example, you really believe, despite all that is said on CMOMM, that Madeleine died on 3 May, you are welcome to say so, but please state your reasons in detail - Mod
How can a forum "believe" anything? And how can anyone know what members believe? Even in the time I have been lurking it is obvious that not all members believe that Madeleine died before the 3rd May.
I don't understand the history, but these questions make no sense to me.
---------------
A Moderator answers: You wrote: "I was not aware that I gained a whole set of beliefs when I pressed the enter key on the sign up screen. Neither did I find a statement of belief that I had to agree to". The prime purpose of the forum, as is stated openly on the home page, is to search for the truth about what really happened to Madeleine McCann. To take the Last Photo as an example, thorough research over a period of time on several threads here established, in the minds of nearly all members, that it had NOT been photoshopped (as many claimed) but was very likely a genuine photo taken on Sunday 29 April and not Thursday 3 May. That is why we have this statement very clearly set out on the home page:
New research in this section points to Maddie's death being on the Sunday or Monday and not Thurs 3 May. Material is often submitted to OG to help bring to justice the perpetrators of "the situation Madeleine finds herself in".
We are all here to search for the truth. If, for example, you really believe, despite all that is said on CMOMM, that Madeleine died on 3 May, you are welcome to say so, but please state your reasons in detail - Mod
Guest- Guest
Re: A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT CMOMM – ANSWERED (24 March 2017)
by Phoebe 25.03.17 10:15
Hi Mum of 6. I don't think there's any rule about beliefs (I'm pretty new too) but if you take the time to delve into this blog you may well find evidence & logical arguments that may impact your views. Eg. I once believed Madeleine died after 6pm on 3/5. Now I absolutely don't. The time frame for cadaver odour to develop, the cleaning, hiding the body, hatching a story etc. suggests against it. I don't believe a word about that nights dinner now that I know the tapas 9 were the only diners from 8.30pm onward. When one reads the May 4th statements of the Tapas 7 (the most important IMO) one quickly realizes that not one of the friends actually claims to have seen Madeleine that day at all. Add to that the info on this forum (totally news to me) that Mark Harrison seems to believe the last independent sighting of Madeleine was by Cat Baker in the creche, not later at high tea in tapas and one sees only the McCs and Cat are witness to her being around on Thurs. For me, I'm now back at at Maddie being dead by Thurs morning and working my way back. I'm not fully convinced that because there are no later photos it definitely proves she was dead, as it could be just that they didn't bother, but the idea that they deliberately lied about when a photo was taken is a red flag. There are suspicious indicators that something was amiss in the early week. I'm gradually working my way back and re examining the evidence and theories and feel free to do so.
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Re: A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT CMOMM – ANSWERED (24 March 2017)
by Tony Bennett 26.03.17 23:39
Well, the above answer has been emphatically confirmed tonight, with over 1,000 people viewing the forum a little earlier on, to catch up with the latest news and discussion about Madeleine.Tony Bennett wrote:A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT CMOMM – ANSWERED (24 March 2017)
A few days ago, a former member here, ‘Andrew’, a member of MMM forum, posted up a list of questions over there for me and for CMOMM to answer...
Andrew: Why is it so important to create 7100 plus members when you have no more than 10/20 that actually post...?
ANSWER: Of course, no members are 'created'. It’s surprising you ask this question at a time when, over the past month, any moment you click on the CMoMM home page in the evening, you will see anywhere between 400 and 1,300 viewers online. A quick check of the last week’s stats shows that 367 members have logged into the site and 102 have posted on the forum. Like many other forums, people don't have to log in to read if they don't want to. And, of course, many people use CMOMM to research, or to view links that have been posted on CMoMM facebook, which means they don't need to post anything on the forum - they simply choose to post their comments in the CMoMM facebook community.
No other Madeleine discussion forum, website or blog can come anywhere near these huge numbers.
Thank you to all members and guests viewing tonight, and at any other time, for your continuing confidence in and support for our work here. It's much appreciated.
ETA: And I see that membership numbers have risen tonight to 7,181 - welcome to all new members
.
____________________
Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"
Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".
Tony Bennett- Researcher
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Re: A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT CMOMM – ANSWERED (24 March 2017)
by Jill Havern 26.03.17 23:49
A week or so ago we had over 2,000 online at the same time.
And sometimes we get this many online:
ETA: And then there is also CMOMM's significant international reach, see here:
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Re: A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT CMOMM – ANSWERED (24 March 2017)
by Jill Havern 27.03.17 9:51
Andrew: ... Genuine questions, CMoMM - can you reply please and give an honest answer to all of the above.... In blue if it suits?
And I don't want any mud-slinging, false accusations, discrediting, libellous comments, delving into my personal life as you've done your utmost before...
Let's have the cards on the table for all to see and give some honest explanations.......
....And to try and prove me wrong (and everyone else who is suspicious) that CMoMM doesn't have an agenda going on....
As forum owner I'm going to address Andrew's final points and have my say about what CMOMM's agenda is.
First of all, CMOMM is the number one Madeleine McCann investigative research forum in the world.
Over the years CMOMM members have :
Written many letters to the Prime Minister, the Home Office, the MET Commissioners and Operation Grange.
Sent numerous FOI Requests to the Government, and obtained many answers.
Submitted many Petitions calling for full Public and Judicial Enquiries.
Promoted, and donated to, the GoFundMe set up for GA's legal expenditure to defend his Libel action by the McCanns, which he has now won.
Tony has successfully managed to obtain a correction on behalf of Gonçalo Amaral from a national newspaper.
Tony has exposed the fraudulent McCann's Private Investigation company.
Tony has written a multitude of research papers and books.
PeterMac has written a research e-book which has been submitted to Operation Grange, the Prime Minister, the MET Commissioner and the Home Office.
HiDeHo has made thousands of videos that has reached a global audience of millions.
HiDeHo has created research websites and facebook groups.
Pat Brown has been on location to Praia da Luz with PeterMac.
Natasha Donn writes a multitude of McCann-related articles for Portugal Resident.
Joana Morais translates a multitude of Portuguese McCann-related press articles for her blog.
Richard D. Hall has made four Madeleine McCann films, some on location in Praia da Luz, that has reached a global audience of millions, and is currently on a nationwide tour promoting his new Madeleine film: 'Why the Cover Up?'.
I have created a Google+ community whereby CMOMM has been viewed more than 130 million times, with an average of 2 million hits per month.
I have created three blogs: McCanns' Abuse of Power; PeterMac's e-book; and Gonçalo Amaral's book: 'The Truth of the Lie', which I have actively promoted and which has been read globally by millions of people.
I have created a very successful facebook group.
And so on...
Thanks to the research done by members of CMOMM, Maddie's death now points to being much earlier in the week.
CMOMM continues to grow in membership and viewing figures. Many thousands of people are genuinely interested in what happened to Madeleine McCann and come here to read and research. I am proud of the many genuine members of CMOMM, including CMOMM facebook, who devote their time and energy by helping us pick away at the available information to get to the truth of what really happened to three-year-old Madeleine Beth McCann.
But now we come to your forum, Andrew, where the mudslinging, false accusations, discrediting and libellous comments really come from. As Tony mentioned in his post, you have history here. I will address this because otherwise it appears that you are accusing us.
Bearing in mind that you have personally been reported to the police for issuing death threats to Tony by waking him and his wife in the middle of the night (FACT), and another forum member, Cristobell, has had a police warning for libelling Tony on social media (FACT), plus your tiresome, continual fake registrations here to cause disruption (FACT) and the FACT that this behaviour is acceptable to the forum owner. Hardly surprising, though, because at the moment the forum owner and moderator over there are cackling about their forum being like The Ritz as opposed to CMOMM (and CMOMM includes members such as Pat Brown, Joana Morais, Natasha Donn etc) being like Bates Motel as shown here,
As you can see, Andrew, I've put my cards on the table and laid out facts of what your forum is doing as opposed to what this forum is doing and, hopefully, the agenda of each has been made clear.
And I don't want any mud-slinging, false accusations, discrediting, libellous comments, delving into my personal life as you've done your utmost before...
Let's have the cards on the table for all to see and give some honest explanations.......
....And to try and prove me wrong (and everyone else who is suspicious) that CMoMM doesn't have an agenda going on....
As forum owner I'm going to address Andrew's final points and have my say about what CMOMM's agenda is.
First of all, CMOMM is the number one Madeleine McCann investigative research forum in the world.
Over the years CMOMM members have :
Written many letters to the Prime Minister, the Home Office, the MET Commissioners and Operation Grange.
Sent numerous FOI Requests to the Government, and obtained many answers.
Submitted many Petitions calling for full Public and Judicial Enquiries.
Promoted, and donated to, the GoFundMe set up for GA's legal expenditure to defend his Libel action by the McCanns, which he has now won.
Tony has successfully managed to obtain a correction on behalf of Gonçalo Amaral from a national newspaper.
Tony has exposed the fraudulent McCann's Private Investigation company.
Tony has written a multitude of research papers and books.
PeterMac has written a research e-book which has been submitted to Operation Grange, the Prime Minister, the MET Commissioner and the Home Office.
HiDeHo has made thousands of videos that has reached a global audience of millions.
HiDeHo has created research websites and facebook groups.
Pat Brown has been on location to Praia da Luz with PeterMac.
Natasha Donn writes a multitude of McCann-related articles for Portugal Resident.
Joana Morais translates a multitude of Portuguese McCann-related press articles for her blog.
Richard D. Hall has made four Madeleine McCann films, some on location in Praia da Luz, that has reached a global audience of millions, and is currently on a nationwide tour promoting his new Madeleine film: 'Why the Cover Up?'.
I have created a Google+ community whereby CMOMM has been viewed more than 130 million times, with an average of 2 million hits per month.
I have created three blogs: McCanns' Abuse of Power; PeterMac's e-book; and Gonçalo Amaral's book: 'The Truth of the Lie', which I have actively promoted and which has been read globally by millions of people.
I have created a very successful facebook group.
And so on...
Thanks to the research done by members of CMOMM, Maddie's death now points to being much earlier in the week.
CMOMM continues to grow in membership and viewing figures. Many thousands of people are genuinely interested in what happened to Madeleine McCann and come here to read and research. I am proud of the many genuine members of CMOMM, including CMOMM facebook, who devote their time and energy by helping us pick away at the available information to get to the truth of what really happened to three-year-old Madeleine Beth McCann.
But now we come to your forum, Andrew, where the mudslinging, false accusations, discrediting and libellous comments really come from. As Tony mentioned in his post, you have history here. I will address this because otherwise it appears that you are accusing us.
Bearing in mind that you have personally been reported to the police for issuing death threats to Tony by waking him and his wife in the middle of the night (FACT), and another forum member, Cristobell, has had a police warning for libelling Tony on social media (FACT), plus your tiresome, continual fake registrations here to cause disruption (FACT) and the FACT that this behaviour is acceptable to the forum owner. Hardly surprising, though, because at the moment the forum owner and moderator over there are cackling about their forum being like The Ritz as opposed to CMOMM (and CMOMM includes members such as Pat Brown, Joana Morais, Natasha Donn etc) being like Bates Motel as shown here,
As you can see, Andrew, I've put my cards on the table and laid out facts of what your forum is doing as opposed to what this forum is doing and, hopefully, the agenda of each has been made clear.
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Re: A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT CMOMM – ANSWERED (24 March 2017)
by plebgate 27.03.17 9:58
Of course the detractors already know all this GEG. It clearly hurts. Carry on GEG, Tony, PeterM and everyone else. Who cares what they think or what questions they are asking? These "doubts" clearly do not put others off from visiting this site.
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Re: A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT CMOMM – ANSWERED (24 March 2017)
by sallypelt 27.03.17 10:13
I am now convinced, if other blogs and forums didn’t have this Forum to “slag off”, they would sink without trace. How dare “Andrew” DEMAND that anyone on this Forum answers HIS questions. Who does he think he is? From what I have read from his posts, he is quite a quarrelsome person, who loves conflict. “Andrew” chases news. I have yet to see one piece of original research from him/her. Moreover, the difference between the other forums and this one is, many other forums are REACTIVE; this Forum is PRO ACTIVE.
Now, "Andrew" can call me all the names under the sun, if he so wishes. I don't usually waste my valuable time on such people, so I will now stop giving him/her/it oxygen for his envy machine.
“Those at the top are often envied by those below”
Now, "Andrew" can call me all the names under the sun, if he so wishes. I don't usually waste my valuable time on such people, so I will now stop giving him/her/it oxygen for his envy machine.
“Those at the top are often envied by those below”
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Re: A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT CMOMM – ANSWERED (24 March 2017)
by Tony Bennett 27.03.17 13:05
'Freedom' on MMM (who used to be 'Jean' here) has had the honesty and decency to post up this message there this morning.
"It was actually due to Tony that I became interested belatedly in the case - in 2009 when Carter-Ruck first popped up - and yes, this forum wouldn't be here without CMoMM!".
It is quite true. Indeed I remember sending her my '60 Reasons' book and corresponding with her.
On 1 August 2009, the Madeleine Foundation, of which I was then the Secretary, held an all-day conference in Harlow; 25 people attended in the Conference Room at the Park Inn. By that time, '60 Reasons' had been on sale for 8 months, and a copy had been sent to every Member of Parliament and some 300 other prominent opinion-formers. Our leaflet, '10 Key Reasons which suggest that Madleine McCann was not abducted', which had been composed by a large group of people collaborating on the old '3 Arguidos' forum, was being distributed around the country.
Then came the controversial 'Rothley Leaflet Drop', in which four members of the Madeleine Foundation distributed '10 Key Reasons' in Leiectershire, including some in Rothley.
The 'drop' was covered by local media. There was an uncomplimentary front page story about the Madeleine Foundation in the Sunday Express, 16 August 2009, and other adverse coverage in the media.
But what flowed from this was:
* several dozen new members of the Madeleine Foundation
* several hundred copies of '60 Reasons' ordered, and
* tens of thouands of extra hits on our website, which had been up and running for a year.
All that was swiftly followed by Carter-Ruck's email of 27 August 2007, warning that the book and the leaflet were libellous, and threatening full-scale libel action.
And in the wake of all that, tens of thousand of people, including Jean, for the first time realised that there was a group of McCann-doubters on the internet.
It was kind of Jean to acknowledge that she'd first learnt about the activities of the McCann-doubters via myself, and I thank her for that.
I hope it might have the effect of reducing the 'noise' over there about what a bad forum CMMOM has become
.
"It was actually due to Tony that I became interested belatedly in the case - in 2009 when Carter-Ruck first popped up - and yes, this forum wouldn't be here without CMoMM!".
It is quite true. Indeed I remember sending her my '60 Reasons' book and corresponding with her.
On 1 August 2009, the Madeleine Foundation, of which I was then the Secretary, held an all-day conference in Harlow; 25 people attended in the Conference Room at the Park Inn. By that time, '60 Reasons' had been on sale for 8 months, and a copy had been sent to every Member of Parliament and some 300 other prominent opinion-formers. Our leaflet, '10 Key Reasons which suggest that Madleine McCann was not abducted', which had been composed by a large group of people collaborating on the old '3 Arguidos' forum, was being distributed around the country.
Then came the controversial 'Rothley Leaflet Drop', in which four members of the Madeleine Foundation distributed '10 Key Reasons' in Leiectershire, including some in Rothley.
The 'drop' was covered by local media. There was an uncomplimentary front page story about the Madeleine Foundation in the Sunday Express, 16 August 2009, and other adverse coverage in the media.
But what flowed from this was:
* several dozen new members of the Madeleine Foundation
* several hundred copies of '60 Reasons' ordered, and
* tens of thouands of extra hits on our website, which had been up and running for a year.
All that was swiftly followed by Carter-Ruck's email of 27 August 2007, warning that the book and the leaflet were libellous, and threatening full-scale libel action.
And in the wake of all that, tens of thousand of people, including Jean, for the first time realised that there was a group of McCann-doubters on the internet.
It was kind of Jean to acknowledge that she'd first learnt about the activities of the McCann-doubters via myself, and I thank her for that.
I hope it might have the effect of reducing the 'noise' over there about what a bad forum CMMOM has become
.
____________________
Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"
Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".
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Re: A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT CMOMM – ANSWERED (24 March 2017)
by ChippyM 27.03.17 14:36
''Andrew: CMoMM purports to 'support' Goncalo Amaral but then steers everyone away from his actual thesis...? ''
Why would it follow that just because you support someone's right to free speech and not being defamed just for doing their job....that you must agree with every word they say? I know I certainly don't agree with everyone on this forum on everything about this case but that's not a problem.
I have seen these 'Pro McCann' people say that we worship Goncalo Amaral and think he is infallible...so which is it?
Personally I think Goncalo Amaral came to a sensible conclusion at that time in the investigation. As he has said numerous times, the investigation was not allowed to run it's course and test certain theories to the end. His hypothesis may have changed had other information come to light. How is that so hard to understand? I think he was close with his theory and allowed to carry on his investigation unhindered, would have uncovered more detail of what happened.
Why would it follow that just because you support someone's right to free speech and not being defamed just for doing their job....that you must agree with every word they say? I know I certainly don't agree with everyone on this forum on everything about this case but that's not a problem.
I have seen these 'Pro McCann' people say that we worship Goncalo Amaral and think he is infallible...so which is it?
Personally I think Goncalo Amaral came to a sensible conclusion at that time in the investigation. As he has said numerous times, the investigation was not allowed to run it's course and test certain theories to the end. His hypothesis may have changed had other information come to light. How is that so hard to understand? I think he was close with his theory and allowed to carry on his investigation unhindered, would have uncovered more detail of what happened.
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Re: A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT CMOMM – ANSWERED (24 March 2017)
by Verdi 27.03.17 15:37
I'm lilking thatsallypelt wrote: ....many other forums are REACTIVE; this Forum is PRO ACTIVE.
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Re: A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT CMOMM – ANSWERED (24 March 2017)
by Verdi 27.03.17 15:41
Au-contraire - it probably encourages people to look in just to see what it's about. Own goal!plebgate wrote: Who cares what they think or what questions they are asking? These "doubts" clearly do not put others off from visiting this site.
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Re: A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT CMOMM – ANSWERED (24 March 2017)
by chirpyinsekt 27.03.17 15:44
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SBXdx1VoSk
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Re: A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT CMOMM – ANSWERED (24 March 2017)
by MRNOODLES 27.03.17 15:46
Can I just say
Andrew: And why do you literally stick 2 fingers up at Goncalo ...
That is possibly the dumbest question I've ever read on here... literally.
Andrew: And why do you literally stick 2 fingers up at Goncalo ...
That is possibly the dumbest question I've ever read on here... literally.
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Re: A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT CMOMM – ANSWERED (24 March 2017)
by Jill Havern 27.03.17 15:51
More games.chirpyinsekt wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SBXdx1VoSk
Someone else from the MMM forum coming here using a toolur.com proxy and a name similar to the one over there.
Just like someone from over there has cloned costello, dannii and Heisenberg.
Will you people never give up?
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Re: A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT CMOMM – ANSWERED (24 March 2017)
by plebgate 27.03.17 16:41
Gosh that youtube vid shows just how frightened Tony was after he came out of court. Wow it certainly showed a small bit of what he must have gone through. Thanks goodness the sentence was suspended - he looked shocked to the core. What a toll it must have taken him and his family and yet he still carries on helping others and sticking to his beliefs.Get'emGonçalo wrote:More games.chirpyinsekt wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SBXdx1VoSk
Someone else from the MMM forum coming here using a toolur.com proxy and a name similar to the one over there.
Just like someone from over there has cloned costello, dannii and Heisenberg.
Will you people never give up?
At 2.23 on the vid. Clarrie's statement to East Anglia tv.
Has he seen the Supreme court ruling lately?
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Re: A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT CMOMM – ANSWERED (24 March 2017)
by plebgate 27.03.17 16:45
Tony faced bankruptcy then - Who's facing it now then?
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Re: A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT CMOMM – ANSWERED (24 March 2017)
by plebgate 27.03.17 17:00
Will we see Tony giving another interview to East Anglia tv, you know, with a copy of the Supreme court ruling in his hand?
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Re: A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT CMOMM – ANSWERED (24 March 2017)
by ChippyM 27.03.17 17:42
MRNOODLES wrote:Can I just say
Andrew: And why do you literally stick 2 fingers up at Goncalo ...
That is possibly the dumbest question I've ever read on here... literally.
Oh dear, somebody doesn't know what 'literally' means.
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Re: A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT CMOMM – ANSWERED (24 March 2017)
by Jill Havern 27.03.17 17:59
plebgate wrote:Gosh that youtube vid shows just how frightened Tony was after he came out of court. Wow it certainly showed a small bit of what he must have gone through. Thanks goodness the sentence was suspended - he looked shocked to the core. What a toll it must have taken him and his family and yet he still carries on helping others and sticking to his beliefs.Get'emGonçalo wrote:More games.chirpyinsekt wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SBXdx1VoSk
Someone else from the MMM forum coming here using a toolur.com proxy and a name similar to the one over there.
Just like someone from over there has cloned costello, dannii and Heisenberg.
Will you people never give up?
At 2.23 on the vid. Clarrie's statement to East Anglia tv.
Has he seen the Supreme court ruling lately?
Yes, it would have been a different outcome, if there'd even been a court case in the first place, had the Supreme Court ruling been available at the time.
But at least Tony was able to get Ms Martorell from Carter-Ruck to admit she had no evidence of an abduction, only what the McCanns told her.
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Re: A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT CMOMM – ANSWERED (24 March 2017)
by Guest 27.03.17 18:06
I have registered for only one reason and that is to say this chirpyinsekt person is not me. I am CI from MMM and make no secret of my thoughts on Tony Bennett. I have a platform to air my views about that and have no need whatsoever to post videos or comments under a fake profile using a proxy. If the person doing this is trying to cause trouble for me ( or any of the other names you have cloned) then please explain your reasoning. Why not just create an original username and post what you want?Get'emGonçalo wrote:More games.chirpyinsekt wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SBXdx1VoSk
Someone else from the MMM forum coming here using a toolur.com proxy and a name similar to the one over there.
Just like someone from over there has cloned costello, dannii and Heisenberg.
Will you people never give up?
You did the same thing with Costello and a few others but if you Jill are fooled by thinking this scammer is one of the regulars from MMM then you are much mistaken.
I don't expect a reply to this post nor do I want to enter into dialogue with anyone here. However, I will say it again, this chirpyinsekt is nothing to do with me.
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Re: A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT CMOMM – ANSWERED (24 March 2017)
by Jill Havern 27.03.17 18:11
I know it's not you.
And I know it's someone from MMM who is doing this.
But now you're blaming me for doing it?
And I know it's someone from MMM who is doing this.
But now you're blaming me for doing it?
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Re: A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT CMOMM – ANSWERED (24 March 2017)
by Guest 27.03.17 18:17
No I'm not blaming you. I am addressing my question to the fake chirpyinsekt. If you "know" it is someone from MMM then you should name and shame or at least pm me to give me the heads up on who the traitor is. I will be more than happy to have it out with them. I have a sneaking suspicion myself who it is. Let's see if we agree.Get'emGonçalo wrote:I know it's not you.
And I know it's someone from MMM who is doing this.
But now you're blaming me for doing it?
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Re: A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT CMOMM – ANSWERED (24 March 2017)
by whatsupdoc 27.03.17 18:20
chirpyinsekt wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SBXdx1VoSk
This video was uploaded by Brenda Ryan . She was the Admin for the 3A's forum. Her views were well known but all of a sudden she changed her views. I have always thought that pressure was applied to Brenda either directly to her or to her family.
Re the video, I hope that when more of the truth emerges, Tony will receive all his money back from the McCanns with interest. It is only recently that the Supreme Court in Portugal has removed some of the gagging of the truth and allowed GA to continue to publish his book which agrees with the conclusions reached by the Portuguese Police.
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