Tuesday Lobster Mini Tennis - Was Madeleine there? Was Rachael there?

[HiDeHo]

I compiled this video in July 2011 and to this day have not seen any discussions of note, regarding the many complexities of the discrepancies.

If one has time to watch to the end I have covered most of them leaving many questions as to whether Rachael made a 'helpful' statement specifically to place Madeleine alive on Thursday, but in doing so has created questions about whether Jane and Kate's statements about the mini tennis were correct.


There are too many to list here, in any order that would not immediately confuse everyone (I have tried many times) but the video really does cover most of them and if anyone can view the video and understand the complexities involved I would be really interested in their views.

The MAJOR issue for me is that if the last time Rachael says she saw Maddie was at mini tennis on Thursday morning (even though Maddie played on Tuesday) then why didnt she see Maddie shouting at both her and Jane at lunchtime (time of the last picture) when they were playing together?

Whats important to remember is that if she wasn't there (hence didn't see Maddie at the pool) then that would mean that JANE wasn't there either!

If JANE wasn't there  does it mean she is lying about the last time she saw Maddie at the pool (for the last picture) and if Jane is lying does that mean its possible the McCanns WERE NOT THERE at the pool for the last picture?

It's complicated, but a HUGE discrepancy that does appear to be contradictions (lies?) to place Maddie at the pool on Thursday lunchtime and therefore 'confirming' the time of the last picture.

If it WAS all 'lies' then does this place ANOTHER discrepancy about whether the last pic was taken on Thursday?

Please watch the full video to understand all the information to be discussed on this thread.

[HiDeHo]

This may be a difficult topic to discuss as when one is dealing with possible lies, its difficult to explain the scenario.

For the sake of this thread and to help explain, lets, for a moment look at the possibility that something had happened earlier in the week to Maddie.

Lets also recognise the possibility that the T7 knew something had happened and were helping with 'damage control' by claiming that Maddie was around on Thursday.


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Jane claims that she was playing tennis with Rachael at the same time the family were next to the pool (at LAST PICTURE time.

Jane claims Gerry was shouting 'good shot' and Maddie was shouting to Jane through the fence.

Jane's statement places them all at the pool at 2.29pm on Thursday.

Proof Maddie was alive and well on Thursday lunchtime?

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Jane was playing tennis with Rachael so then we look at how Rachael describes that lunchtime.

She claims to have been playing tennis with Jane and saw Kate and Gerry at the pool area.

One would think that's OK, she just didn't mention Maddie who was shouting at them through the fence....

Had she seen Maddie, just a Jane states, it would have been the last time she saw Maddie.

ie All the family next to the pool and the LAST PICTURE confirmed to have been probably taken at 2.29pm


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HOWEVER, Rachael claims the LAST TIME she saw Maddie was at mini tennis!!

Her last 'vision' of Madeleine was of her playing mini tennis.  A moment she is unlikely to forget?  Maddie disappeared that night and Rachael recalls her playing tennis.

Did Rachael forget that she saw her at lunchtime when they were shouting through the fence?

A possibility.  It's easy, maybe to mix up the times.  Mini tennis was until 11am and Rachael and Jane were playing a couple of hours later...on Thursday

Not much difference in time and probably not overly important if everyone was telling the truth.


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THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH THAT...

Rachael claims it was Thursday but Madeleine's group mini tennis was TUESDAY!

The other mini tennis on Thursday was the SHARKS!

So... was the last time Rachael saw Maddie on TUESDAY? (which in itself would lead to many questions) or did she try to place Maddie alive and well on Thursday by claiming she was playing mini tennis that morning? NOT REALISING that it wasn't Maddies group!

Can this be explained by her being mistaken and she thought one of the other little blonde girls was Maddie?

Not a big deal and could have been possible.. EXCEPT, she describes being with Kate and Jane taking the tennis balls pic as well as Gerry joining them (he couldnt have been there as he was playing tennis until 15 minutes after mini tennis had finished)

Rachael describes the details of the mini tennis that Kate and Jane claim (although they don't mention Rachael being there!)

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If they are ALL telling the truth, HOW could that scenario happen?

Is it POSSIBLE that something had happened to Maddie and the details of the mini tennis were put together by Jane, Kate and Rachael and the 'tennis balls pic' (which was likely taken another time) was to be used as 'evidence' of Maddie playing mini tennis?

Continuing to work on the scenario that something had happened to Maddie before Tuesday and the details of the mini tennis (to place Maddie at mini tennis) were in place.  

Everything sorted.  No problem EXCEPT Rachael, in her effort to be helpful was maybe not aware that mini tennis was on Tuesday and thought that the mini tennis that she saw on THURSDAY was the one where she was supposed to describe about being with Jane and Kate and seeing Jane take the tennis balls photo.

Rachael's statement about seeing Maddie (for the last time on Thursday) has totally placed questions on lots of other issues INCLUDING the validity of the LAST PICTURE.

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There is lots more to this, but for anyone who has the time and patience to understand the above it can be seen that this could be HUGE.

Once again.  If anyone can explain this away as 'credible and true', then also please keep in mind that it's not just me.... the POLICE saw something odd in Rachael's statement...

I will address more to this issue once the above is understood...


Maybe revisiting the video after reading this will help get the perspective...

No-one has discussed this issue because it is so complicated, but the implications of it being a 'cover up' for the truth could be HUGE.

[HiDeHo]

Why did the police question Rachael on which court she saw Maddie play mini tennis on?

She answered incorrectly as the court mini tennis was played on was court 2 and Rachael described court 1.



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1578 'I think you've already covered this one, when was the last time you saw Madeleine''

 Reply 'Erm it was when she was having a tennis lesson, in the morning yeah, about probably between ten thirty and eleven on the morning of the third of May'.


00.41.13 1578 'At the tennis courts''

 Reply 'Yes at the tennis courts'.


1578 'Any particular court''

 Reply 'Erm it was the one, if you were standing facing the courts, it's the one on the left I think'. 


1578 'Got your exhibit here, number 101, are they the tennis courts''

 Reply Yes, it was, it was that one, there are only two courts there'.


1578 Okay'.

 Reply So it would have been this one here, where the children were'.


1578 'What's that one there and what is that''

 Reply 'Erm that's the, I think that's probably, well the outside bit of the, of the cr'he overlooked the tennis courts and so maybe that's that, that's not quite sort of accurate I don't think that, that diagram, the cr'he was here and there's an outside area here and the indoor, in, inside of it there'.


1578 'Okay. When did you see Kate and Gerald on Thursday May the third''

 Reply 'Erm well I saw Kate, I chatted to Kate by the pool, erm in the morning'.


1578 'What time was that''

 Reply 'That would have been from sort of, you know half nine, ten o'clock onwards, we were chatting when Madeleine arrived for the tennis lesson with the rest of the children from her group, erm I think that was probably about ten thirty, erm and Gerry was there then as well, I think he'd been having a lesson on the tennis courts I think, he was having group lessons, so I think he might have been having his lesson sort of up until then, erm so they were both there then and then erm Matt and I had our tennis lesson and then Jane and I, when Jane and I were having a hit on the court when, in the afternoon, so about half two, three o'clock when Grace was having her sleep and Evie was asleep, erm Gerry and Kate were watching us, so we saw them then 

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[HiDeHo]

Lets look at the possibility that Rachael was telling the truth and got the day incorrect....and she is describing TUESDAY (but claiming it to be Thursday in error)

Last time she saw Maddie was at mini tennis...so she would have been mistaken with the day...She last saw Maddie on TUESDAY

When asked when she saw Kate and Gerry on Thursday, she claimed at mini tennis, but that was TUESDAY

She claims Gerry was there but according to what we have been told, Gerry played tennis until 11.15 so he wasn't there...

Rachael claims she was sat with Kate before mini tennis, but from what we know, Kate should have been playing tennis until 10.15am

If Rachael DID mistake the day she sat chatting to Kate before mini tennis, then Kate went to apartment to see Maintenance men and wasn't sat with Rachael...

Rachael claims that Jane took the photo with the tennis balls but we are led to believe it was KATE (as she has to go back to apartment to get the camera)

NONE OF IT MAKES SENSE NO MATTER WHETHER IT WAS TUESDAY OR THURSDAY

[willowthewisp]

Hi, HiDeHo, I have just watched your video and was wondering who was looking after Rachael's two children when she left them in the apartment sleeping on the Thursday 3 May 2007, was this Diane Webster?  As Matthew her husband was out sailing with Russell O'Brien, during the afternoon, prior to having high tea at Paradiso at 17.30, then playing Tennis with Gerry and Matthew, Russell plus the tennis coach.  Then came David after visiting Kate for how long, after seeing, All three of the McCann children alive and well at that point in time, as per DP statement to the PJ Police?

I hope you have been able to forward a copy of the video to,"I nick erm before they know they're nicked" DCI Nicola Wall after her colleague DCI Andy Redwood has openly declared them as non suspects to a crime?

PS.The photo of Madeleine collecting the tennis balls, was this on Tuesday 1 May 2007 during the cleansing of the tennis courts, as in some pictures the outside areas of the court are still wet.  This would then collate to Madeleine being alive and well on the Tuesday?

[Guest]

Trying to get my head around this, particularly the sheet for Tuesday, showing the Minis session 10-11 (or 12, the tippex line makes it ambiguous but I assume that was because the concurrent adult classes ran longer). It says Rachel (L) and Dan at 11-1200, on court . Is this Rachael Mampilly? Being instructed by Dan Stuk?

It could in a sense explain how she could've been sat with Kate watching the minis for a period of time on the other court, if it is (waiting for her lesson to start). I'm not sure what the (L) means though, and I notice (MW) (Mark Warner?) is denoted in some columns, sometimes circled like the L. I know the only other company renting the courts was Jonathan Markson. So the L doesn't mean anything to me, it's not the initials of another coach, unless it was the first initial of Luis Machado, perhaps a Portuguese tendency to write an initial instead of first name?


So in other words:


(L) = Luis Machado giving private lessons for Jonathan Markson
(Dan) = Daniel Stuk giving private lessons
(MW) = Mark Warner bookings, probably Georgina Jackson as default

Could just be innocuous details, but trying to work out if the Rachel listed was Rachael Mampilly or not as being instructed by Machado would imply not?

Then again, specific-wise 'Adult Classic' doesn't say who is or isn't in the class at any given time, are there other sheets with this information? I only recall seeing the information presented here/the interviews given by Georgina and Dan in the PJ Files.



Interesting, though, Minis listed at the same time of day on Tuesday and Thursday, if one is literally reading off the sheet.


(Hope this all made some semblance of sense, it can be quite disorienting trying to interpret this stuff while attempting coherence!)