Re: Madeleine McCann parents still under investigation in Portugal

by dottyaussie 27.04.16 13:55

Ok getting REALLY confused here......

Is there still an ongoing Portuguese investigation or not ?

Are the McCanns still under investigation by the PJ or not ?

by Realist 27.04.16 14:09

dottyaussie wrote:

Are the McCanns still under investigation by the PJ or not ?

I would have thought that this is a question, none of us would be in a position to answer, dottyaussie and only answerable by a person being party to the actual investigation.

by **Tony Bennett** 27.04.16 14:22

dottyaussie wrote:Ok getting REALLY confused here......

Is there still an ongoing Portuguese investigation or no? Are the McCanns still under investigation by the PJ or not?

Some say 'Yes', myself and Joana Morais and quite a few others say 'No'.

If anyone thinks there IS a current investigation, maybe they would be good enough to say who the current investigation head is - and where they are based.

by Guest 27.04.16 15:36

MayMuse wrote:
Verdi wrote:
MayMuse wrote:
To whom and/or what are you responding?
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] it was Joanna's part translation

Apologies if I appear intrusive and to mods for this momentry topic hiatus - may I ask what prompted you to join this forum less that two weeks ago, after nigh on nine years having passed since Madeleine's disappearance? As I think I've said before, I'm always interested to learn what sways public opinion in this convoluted protracted case of one missing child. Was the forum recommended by a family member or friend or did you stumble upon it by chance?

Your very active membership so far appears very much in favour of following the party line whatever it happens to be at any given moment. Have you followed the case over the past nine years - are you familiar with the PJ files released into the public domain? If not, this forum contains a wealth of information to help fill the gaps and expand your knowledge of the case, thus enabling you to offer your own perspective on issues of importance.

by Guest 27.04.16 15:42

dottyaussie wrote:Ok getting REALLY confused here......

Is there still an ongoing Portuguese investigation or not ?

Are the McCanns still under investigation by the PJ or not ?

All signs point to not!

If I'm wrong, I should be very interested to know what lines of enquiry they are following nine years down the line when, ostensibly, the case was on the verge of a solution way back in the summer of 2007. Had the PJ been allowed to continue the investigation without outside influence, I truly believe we wouldn't be here today, discussing a case that is so cold it sends shivers down the spine.

by Guest 27.04.16 15:44

aquila wrote:
MayMuse wrote:So & I think I may have said this before, this has been just a very expensive 'theatre' production!?
Do the Uk investigation team & the Government think we are all idiots?
It is a mockery of our British justice system which shows high levels of interference & protection from the start! And not just in this sorry case!

How on earth can our relationship with Portugal ever be in 'good-standing'!

Madeleine's 'case' is known world-wide and the 'farcical' of it all (I feel) has damaged our reputation!
We cannot crawl under a stone ( even unturned) and hide!

This will never disappear & Madeleines name will go down in history!

I'm sorry to say that I'm British!
Amaral, the PJ & all the Portuguese people which this 'diabolical event' has affected have my utmost respect & support.

Bless you Madeleine
Crikey when was all things UK damned and all things Portuguese heavenly!

The Portuguese investigation was botched...just as the Soham case was initially botched in UK. It's the nature of investigations except the disappearance of Madeleine McCann was an iconic disappearance, for reasons yet to be ascertained.

Portugal has dirty hands too!

There's not a single country in the whole wide world that's government is not corrupt!

by pennylane 27.04.16 16:09

Verdi wrote:
aquila wrote:
MayMuse wrote:So & I think I may have said this before, this has been just a very expensive 'theatre' production!?
Do the Uk investigation team & the Government think we are all idiots?
It is a mockery of our British justice system which shows high levels of interference & protection from the start! And not just in this sorry case!

How on earth can our relationship with Portugal ever be in 'good-standing'!

Madeleine's 'case' is known world-wide and the 'farcical' of it all (I feel) has damaged our reputation!
We cannot crawl under a stone ( even unturned) and hide!

This will never disappear & Madeleines name will go down in history!

I'm sorry to say that I'm British!
Amaral, the PJ & all the Portuguese people which this 'diabolical event' has affected have my utmost respect & support.

Bless you Madeleine
Crikey when was all things UK damned and all things Portuguese heavenly!

The Portuguese investigation was botched...just as the Soham case was initially botched in UK. It's the nature of investigations except the disappearance of Madeleine McCann was an iconic disappearance, for reasons yet to be ascertained.

Portugal has dirty hands too!
There's not a single country in the whole wide world that's government is not corrupt!

Sad but so true!

by Claire25 27.04.16 16:12

Maybe not a very accurate source being in the MSM, but this article in The Guardian (which is worth a read, I had not seen before) says

'Following the appeal on Crimewatch, the Portuguese police re-opened their own investigation.'

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If so, do they have so many months to make arrests before having to shelve the case over there (and release more files)? Would that time have now passed?

by skyrocket 27.04.16 16:25

It would be nice to think that Snr Amaral's recent victory might give the Portuguese more confidence to get stuck into the investigation. But it would be naive to think that whoever the 'Biggest Who' is in the UK (thanks @TB for your response to my previous post), or whoever Biggest Who's successor might be (as we are 9 years on), is not still wielding influence over the Portuguese (or was/is the Portuguese gov a willing participant?).

The more I think about it, the less likely it seems to me that the single focus investigation is just down to a case of a party political marketing opportunity gone awry. As others have pointed out, surely the warnings from the Brits in the Lisbon Embassy would have signalled a very hasty withdrawl by the UK government at the time. It doesn't make any sense that successive governments of different colours have continued the unambiguous support of the Mc's stance. IMO, there has to be a deeper reason.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - the point I was trying to make regarding the UK investigation is that OG have, officially at least, looked into and discounted every single one of the leads they had (bar one ongoing, we are told). Strange way of getting to the crux of the matter but in effect that is what they have done, working from the outside in. So yes, Snr Amaral and the PJ reached a similar conclusion very early on but they certainly couldn't state at that stage that every other line of inquiry had been investigated and found to be fruitless. Now they can. OG must be considered to have been a success in that respect - every abduction 'lead' they had, has come to zero. The bizarre thing is that instead of saying 'OK - let's adjust our mindset and see where that gets us,' they are saying, 'OK - that's it then, we're never going to solve this.' The ONLY way that should be allowed is if MBM had been carried away in full sight of multiple, independent witnesses or on CCTV i.e. abduction was a FACT and not merely one possibile scenario amongst several. Jane Tanner's sighting doesn't do the job in anyone's eyes never mind those of experienced, investigative officers. It is a farce and nothing more!

by mysticmeg 27.04.16 16:53

Whilst I agree that OG has shown that their "leads" have gone nowhere and that this reinforces the original investigation, I can't help feeling that it has done so incidentally rather than with this motive in mind. The timing of all the investigations during the original "Libel trial" and the sudden reversal of intent after the recent appeal do, indeed, scream "theatre" to me..........as did that ridiculous Crimewatch re-construction that omitted to name D. and F. P. Still, if something positive can be gleaned from it, then so be it!

by jozi 27.04.16 17:25

mysticmeg wrote:Whilst I agree that OG has shown that their "leads" have gone nowhere and that this reinforces the original investigation, I can't help feeling that it has done so incidentally rather than with this motive in mind. The timing of all the investigations during the original "Libel trial" and the sudden reversal of intent after the recent appeal do, indeed, scream "theatre" to me..........as did that ridiculous Crimewatch re-construction that omitted to name D. and F. P. Still, if something positive can be gleaned from it, then so be it!

Well, the Hillsborough trial has just shown as long as people keep on searching for the truth it will happen no matter how many years down the line.

Unfortunately when I read the headline I thought here we go again !!!

by Realist 27.04.16 17:37

skyrocket wrote:It would be nice to think that Snr Amaral's recent victory might give the Portuguese more confidence to get stuck into the investigation.

Goncala's recent success in the Appeal Ct. had nothing whatsoever to do with the McCann's culpability in the death of their daughter, but everything to do with the right to freedom of expression.

by dottyaussie 27.04.16 17:39

So SY are following one line of inquiry that will lead to what ? Nothing ? Its not even an investigation. The PJ are not investigating any thing although from everything that's been discussed on the forums etc they have a lot of questions.

I guess then that all the hard work by people doing there own investigations, the creation of all these forums/FB pages/blogs, the passion of people trying to show others the truth/lies/inconsistencies that has caused many arguments, the abuse of people from both sides on twitter, the outrage at the MSM, the complaints written, the FOI's asked for has been for what reason - none - it now seems.

No-one is going to be questioned/arrested/charged with anything. None of our questions will be answered.

Oh well I guess its kept people occupied for 9 years. sad

by **Jill Havern** 27.04.16 19:19

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by sami 27.04.16 19:29

Was there a woman called Helen Monteiro appointed to head up a review ? Was that concluded or what happened does anybody know ?

by Mirage 27.04.16 19:58

sami wrote:Was there a woman called Helen Monteiro appointed to head up a review ? Was that concluded or what happened does anybody know ?

Hi Sami. I can't find any reference to Helen Monteiro after June 2013.

It appears that Alison Saunders (DPP) had a meeting with Monteiro and team in Lisbon. Jenny Hopkins (head of complex casework unit) accompanied Saunders to discuss leads. SY wanted to move from review to investigation status. DCS Hamish Campbell who had overseen the review was reported as saying there were a number of individuals that needed to be questioned and further forensic opportunities to examine. (Hmm, comment would be superfluous)

While on the subject, I wonder what became of Nicola Wall?

In other news, the people of Liverpool have had a lot to say today.

by HelenMeg 27.04.16 20:00

Tony Bennett wrote:
dottyaussie wrote:Ok getting REALLY confused here......

Is there still an ongoing Portuguese investigation or no? Are the McCanns still under investigation by the PJ or not?
Some say 'Yes', myself and Joana Morais and quite a few others say 'No'.

If anyone thinks there IS a current investigation, maybe they would be good enough to say who the current investigation head is - and where they are based.

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October 28th 2015 - at that point in time, The Met issued a statement including the words:

'Operation Grange is working to support the Portuguese investigation and this work continues.
While there remain lines of inquiry to follow, the vast majority of the work by Operation Grange has been completed. '

So 6 months ago there was a Portuguese investigation in process (according to sources)

by Guest 27.04.16 20:48

Realist wrote:
skyrocket wrote:It would be nice to think that Snr Amaral's recent victory might give the Portuguese more confidence to get stuck into the investigation.

Goncala's recent success in the Appeal Ct. had nothing whatsoever to do with the McCann's culpability in the death of their daughter, but everything to do with the right to freedom of expression.

Now you're realistically sounding like a realist! When did all this McCann v. Amaral commence - around May (how significant) 2009, about a year after the release of the PJ Files? How reluctant they were at the time to pursue such a drastic course of action, so said a source close to the family but they apparently had no alternative but to gag the man assigned, through his job, to coordinate the investigation into their missing daughter.

The procedure of gagging Dr. Amaral has taken many twists and turns along the way, seemingly to accord with how the land lay from a legal pespective. Each stage has created an internet mayhem of anticipation by the masses who seemed to think that the legal action taken by the McCanns against Dr. Amaral had some direct effect on the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance. Wild claims have I read like - 'interesting times ahead', 'the end to this case is on the horizon', 'the McCanns are finished' - all total nonsense. The McCanns case against Goncalo Amaral and the investigation into Madeleine's fate are two entirely different enitites with no connection whatsoever. The only knock-on effect is that it puts the McCanns in a very poor light as regards public opinion.

The McCanns know their limitations, they are fully aware that a court appearance of any description that even touches on the detail of their daughters disappearance in investigative terms, is to be avoided at all costs. They prefer to opt for an out of court settlement where they can avoid awkward questions - as regards trying to ruin Goncalo Amaral they met their match.

by **xklamation** 27.04.16 21:05

NickE wrote:Translated with Google.

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Video here:
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Translation of the above video :

Anchor - The Maddie process was reopened in 2013. At this time, all hypotheses remain open, from abduction to accidental homicide committed by the child's parents. The English have an independent investigation.

News segment 3

Voice Over Tânia Laranjo - Almost 9 years after Madeleine McCann disappeared in Praia da Luz, in the Algarve, all hypotheses remain open. The process was archived in 2008, re-opened in 2013. From the negligent homicide they moved to the abduction thesis. The suspect was a man that had already died. He would have abducted and murdered Maddie, buried the body in the proximities of the tourist resort. The new thesis surfaced after a thorough examination carried out by another team of investigators. Elements of the Judiciary Police from Oporto spent months reviewing the process. They searched for loose ends, abandoned the thesis defended by the team of Portimão. After all it hadn't been Kate, Madeleine's mother had not been responsible for her death. It hadn't been an accident. The thesis was never confirmed, the Judiciary police investigated, searched but found nothing. At the same time they kept a close cooperation with the English, who, in turn, continue to ask for more investigative steps to be carried out via the letters rogatory. They have already been on the field, asking for more excavations to be done, but found nothing. Breakthroughs and setbacks, absence of answers, Madeleine has never been found. There is no body, ransom note, any solid evidence to indicate what effectively happened on the night of May 3, 2007. After 9 years the process remains open, at least until its limitation period, which will happen in 2027, twenty years after Madeleine disappeared.

by petunia 27.04.16 21:08

Verdi,Karma has well and truly bit the McCanns on the arse with the Amaral verdict,that's good enough for me. A reminder to Kate and Gerry never go near a court room again always try settle out of court rather than in a court.

by MayMuse 27.04.16 21:15

Thank you for the translation... Interesting that it will remain open until 2027. So if understood correctly , there is still 'work' that could be done?

by sami 27.04.16 21:19

Mirage wrote:
sami wrote:Was there a woman called Helen Monteiro appointed to head up a review ? Was that concluded or what happened does anybody know ?

Hi Sami. I can't find any reference to Helen Monteiro after June 2013

While on the subject, I wonder what became of Nicola Wall?

In other news, the people of Liverpool have had a lot to say today.

Thanks Mirage.......just whooshed like lots of other things it seems so sad

by **Tony Bennett** 27.04.16 22:01

HelenMeg wrote:
So 6 months ago there was a Portuguese investigation in process (according to sources)

I have no issue with the fact that both Scotland Yard and the PJ have stated that there is an investigation.

The point I'm making (and Joana as well if I've understood her aright) is that it doesn't exist in practice - to coin Richard Hall's phrase, it's a 'phantom' investigation, a dummy investigation, a pretend investigation, a non-investigation

by The Rooster 27.04.16 22:09

It certainly does look like a whitewash now. Never thought it could happen!

by maff2016 27.04.16 22:15

It is interesting to note that in the media recently it has been reported that grange is soon to be finished apart from one line of inquiry that involves private investigators in the UK asking for a report from the PJ. The McCann's response was they 'they fully understood and thanked the UK police for their work thus far'. Richard D Hall mentions in his video that the McCann's seem to have the habit of thanking people for not finding their daughter while also sporting big smiley faces and being nicey nicey about it all. Having three children of my own as well as three grand children my response would be somewhat more jaded, probably along the lines of 'you useless set of idiots, I demand you keep looking for her and investigating'.
When will people wake up and see that genuine parents with genuine concerns are not nicey nicey no matter who is listening?

by maff2016 27.04.16 22:27

The Rooster wrote:It certainly does look like a whitewash now. Never thought it could happen!

Taking into consideration what has happened in the Hillsborough disaster, nothing is over till its over and that means what it says.
The McCann's may think they can snuggle up in bed and the fat lady might have sung her tune to them but out there are seven adults with a trail of guilt as long as next week behind them. One unexpected day, one of them is going to blow a gasket, mark my words.

by Doug D 27.04.16 22:39

These are GA’s comments following on from the snippet relating to this bit of video, posted by Joana above:

Anchor - Gonçalo, do you believe things at this moment are being routed for the process to be archived here in Portugal?

Gonçalo Amaral- I have no doubts whatsoever, what was done by Scotland Yard is practically at an end. What they wanted to do was basically to, and I had said this before, was to in a certain way to give credence to the couple and remove all suspicions that existed concerning the couple. They did a reconstitution here in Portugal, not with the couple but with actors; constituted a series of arguidos that have nothing to do with the case, just for the sake of constituting arguidos; they followed a number of false leads. Now they have reached an end, after having spent a lot of money, maybe there isn't any more money to spend, maybe the British public fund does not does not support such expenditure. And it will be archived, I can't see the Judiciary Police resuming the investigation when Scotland Yard ends theirs. In the end, the process was re-opened almost only and by the Scotland Yard, and when they leave the process will be archived just like before.

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by petunia 27.04.16 22:48

What a waste of £12 million pounds.

by suzyjohnson 27.04.16 22:57

jozi wrote:

Well, the Hillsborough trial has just shown as long as people keep on searching for the truth it will happen no matter how many years down the line.

Unfortunately when I read the headline I thought here we go again !!!

There were thousands of witnesses at Hillsborough.