Sir Bernard Hogan Howe says Grange is a MURDER investigation in latest interview.

I'll ASK!

Perfectly 'legitimate' questions:

Could the Hawaiian 'poster' have 'arranged' something to do with BL?

We KNOW she THREATENED her LIFE.

Can PG, voraciously outspoken, self admitted, McCann 'supporter', although she studiously refuses, point blank, to tell anyone WHY it is IMPOSSIBLE that the McCann's, or people they knew, were NOT 'involved' in their daughter's 'disappearance', account for her 'whereabouts' in the days following MB's 'doorstepping' of BL and up to the 'discovery' of BL, in the hotel, she had fled to?

What did MB 'say' to BL, 'off camera' in her home?

Did he 'harass' BL, 'off camera' to the point of her becoming 'suicidal'?

WHERE IS SKY NEWS 'CHIEF CRIME CORRESPONDANT', 'DOORSTEPPING' MARTIN BRUNT?

The growing list of cybercrimes includes crimes that have been made possible by computers, such as network intrusions and the dissemination of computer viruses, as well as computer-based variations of existing crimes, such as identity theft, stalking, bullying and terrorism.
There are a number of controversial issues surrounding cybercrime. Opinions differ, for example, as to whether some widespread activities (such as file sharing) should be classified as criminal acts. The U.S. Digital Media Copyright Act (DMCA) of 1998 stipulates that exchanging files of copyrighted material, such as music or videos, is illegal and punishable by law. In August, 2002, the U.S. Department of Justice announced that they would begin to prosecute cases of peer-to-peer piracy. Since that time, there have been sporadic suits brought against individuals. Such prosecutions please many in the entertainment industries but are less popular with the general public. Gary Shapiro, president of the Consumer Electronics Association, has remarked that "If we have 70 million people in the United States who are breaking the law, we have a big issue."

http://searchsecurity.techtarget.com/definition/cybercrime

BHH: " it WAS our (Met) SNIFFER dogs that 'alerted' to chief 'suspect's' CADAVAR in Alice Gross 'case'"

But it wasn't their dogs used in PdL in the summer, they were supplied by the Welsh force.

BHH let slip that it's a murder investigation, but is OG looking at it with an open mind? It was a murder investigation in the summer and now OG want to reinterview some people over there.

The only thing that gives me encouragement is that KM still looks as if the pressure is really getting to her.

jeanmonroe wrote:I'll ASK!

Perfectly 'legitimate' questions:

Could the Hawaiian 'poster' have 'arranged' something to do with BL?

We KNOW she THREATENED her LIFE.

Can PG account for her 'whereabouts' in the days following MB's 'doorstepping' of BL and up to the 'discovery' of BL, in the hotel, she had fled to?

I think it could be possible if the Hawaiian poster arranged something amongst someone in the U.K. I read she is an old woman though, so i don't think she did anything personally. But she could of been in the know about something that was going to happen? That will all be up to the authorities to pursue if there is a case to be answered.

Can MB be 'compelled' by the coroner, at BL 'inquest', to attend, and have to give evidence, if the coroner 'examines' what could have 'happened' in BL's life, in  the days LEADING up, and preceding, her 'unexpected' (Leicestershire Police 'statement', on record) 'death'?

ChippyM wrote:An interview was just posted on another thread by member Baldrick ( I hope you don't mind me borrowing it!)

Sir Bernard Hogan Howe is doing a Q and A session and is asked about the 'trolling' dossier.

It's from BBC london, drive time with Eddie Nestor (from 25 minutes)   http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/player/p02789bx


I've transcribed the first few sentences;

EN - Tell me about that file that was handed to you re. the McCanns, you know, concerned individuals and certainly that storie's been in the headlines with tragic consequences...yesterday. A file handed to you? Are you looking at it at the minute?


BHH - no what happened, well first of all, you may have seen over the last 10 days we've launched a cyber crime unit, about 500 officers. Thats really intended to target people who steal things, not necessarily bullying , I think that's going to be a real challange to us in the future just in terms of volume.


But in terms of that file, what happened if you recall was that the family handed to our team that are investigating the, or reviewing the murder of...of sorry, reviewing the missing girl. errr the McCann daughter. The file was handed to that team and we were liasing with Leicestershire police which is where the McCann family live.....


So there are two things here. BHH seems quite sure this is a murder case.  ..... and 'the family handed to our team' means what?  

Were the McCann family 'handed to his team' or did a certain family hand the file to his team?

In the rest of the answer, he goes on to say that racism, blackmail, or actual threats to harm some one would be considered criminal online, defamation would not and only be a civil matter, which sounds pretty much like there was no case against BL. Emphasising  the cyber crime unit deals with things being 'stolen' sounds a bit like BHH is a bit peeved at being given a silly tit for tat 'trolling' dossier. I could be wrong.

Anyway it's the MURDER word that jumped out at me with this!

 So the McCanns are at the dead center of this tragedy.
Well that's no surprise.

Depends if the Coroner is independent and honest. MB should be chief witness as he holds the secrets of the dossier and the private conversation and perhaps why Brenda left twitter shortly after he started "following" her. As someone has said, doorstepping someone as he did should have been well below his dignity. It was crude and embarrassing for him as well as her. Who obliged him to do it?

Libel & slander are now civil matters.  Unless the person is approached directly either in person or by writen communication in a menacing way more than once then it is Harrassment ( I think that's correct, somebody else maybe able to clarify it)

You can be sued civilly for libel & slander but if the person you're suing has no assets there's no point.

BL did not libel the McCanns or approach them therefore what action was there to take?

The Pros who threatened BL directly IMO have a Harrassment case to answer

Nina wrote:

juliet wrote:Depends if the Coroner is independent and honest. MB should be chief witness as he holds the secrets of the dossier and the private conversation and perhaps why Brenda left twitter shortly after he started "following" her. As someone has said, doorstepping someone as he did should have been well below his dignity. It was crude and embarrassing for him as well as her. Who obliged him to do it?

I sent a message of support to her on Saturday, to her Facebook page and that was still open,

http://gyazo.com/8f59d717251625d7517476500b45e2ce

That was a nice thought

For all the 'scamming, scheming, planning' by TM, Sky News and D Mail, they did NOT 'forsee' the tragic 'outcome', pressured, knowingly, upon her, imo, by THEM, of BL.

TM possibly 'thought' this (affluent? in their 'eyes'?) lady would just 'roll over' and 'pay up', a 'donation', into their private limited company, Madeleine's 'Fund'

All nicely 'settled' out of court, of course.

They NEVER, EVER, 'seem' to go after 'chavs' from a 'sink estate', who possibly dosen't have 'a pot to piss in' do they?

I have 'asked' the McCanns MANY, MANY times to SUE me, but as i don't have feck all 'money', which they know, it's been pointed out to me that they wouldn't 'touch me with a barge pole' no matter how many 'possibly distasteful things' (to them) i say about them.

Still, i suppose, there's a 'silver lining' to this sad story.

MB, who is not ABOVE the law, and is subject to the same laws of 'harrassment and stalking' as we all are in the UK,  has, if he is 'not charged' with an 'offence'(Harass&Stalk) 'possibly' opened the door FOR 'anyone' at 'any time' to be 'doorstepped/confronted'.

I can 'possibly forsee' MB having a hundred 'recording' devices thrust in his face, and awkward questions asked about what he said to BL 'off camera' in her home, before her 'unexpected' death, (LP) if he ever has the 'balls' to report from outside SY, ever again.

WHERE'S BRUNT?    

jeanmonroe wrote:I'll ASK!

Perfectly 'legitimate' questions:

Could the Hawaiian 'poster' have 'arranged' something to do with BL?

We KNOW she THREATENED her LIFE.

Can PG, voraciously outspoken, self admitted, McCann 'supporter', although she studiously refuses, point blank, to tell anyone WHY it is IMPOSSIBLE that the McCann's, or people they knew, were NOT 'involved' in their daughter's 'disappearance', account for her 'whereabouts' in the days following MB's 'doorstepping' of BL and up to the 'discovery' of BL, in the hotel, she had fled to?

What did MB 'say' to BL, 'off camera' in her home?

Did he 'harass' BL, 'off camera' to the point of her becoming 'suicidal'?

WHERE IS SKY NEWS 'CHIEF CRIME CORRESPONDANT', 'DOORSTEPPING' MARTIN BRUNT?

Yes very good points. It has all got dangerously out of control. The whole thing has been a farce from start to finish. TM have been given far too much power for far too long. Power without responsibility, imo. With the sycophantic  press, toothless police investigation (at least at this end that's how it is looking). Clarence Mitchell holding forth. 

Farcical that these people have been lording over everyone for so long. They have done nothing to deserve this. On the contrary, they have lost a daughter in highly suspicious circumstances. 

Why shouldn't they be held to account? What the hell happened? What happened this this innocent 4 year old? 

The tax payer is picking up the bill for all this. Why should everyone put up with lie after lie after lie?

Of course, it would make complete sense if this poor lady - in receipt of the most vile abusive tweets and goodness knows what else perhaps - should have made a complaint to police. Why should she not? No doubt she was hugely frustrated with the investigation, as so many people are. (Although police activity with regard to this case has not admittedly been encouraging.) And of course if that had been the case, then the vile internet trolls that GM was rallying against might (yeah - that would figure - reverse psychology again)  indeed, be on the TM side of the fence.

A theory only at this stage.

You accuse your critics of doing the precise thing that you are doing yourself. Your critics have seen through the bag of tricks and have had enough of it. So you up the counter-attack. A very effective device that is extremely destabilizing. An especially effective counter-attack if the person is vulnerable or does not have a robust support system, perhaps. 

Whatever happened, what exactly was Martin Brunt playing at here? Given the incredibly threatening nature of the tweets that appear to have been sent to this lady. What role was Sky News playing here exactly?

If someone is feeling threatened, they can ask for police protection. What if she had got out her mobile there and then and called police? She has as much right to go about her business in private and without feeling harassed and threatened as anyone else. She is innocent until proven guilty, as we all are.

This all sounds very disturbing (as always with this case, it leads into dark alley-ways very quickly.)

Nothing stated as fact as the full facts are not known at this stage. (And, given that after 7 years we still do not have the facts about what happened to Madeleine I will not hold my breath too long.)

I am so disgusted by what I have seen being played out in the media with regard to this case.

lj wrote:

  So the McCanns are at the dead center of this tragedy.
Well that's no surprise.

Snifferdog: Yep, no surprise there. The Mccanns are dead centre in all the tragic stories associated with this case...everything they touch...

jeanmonroe wrote:For all the 'scamming, scheming, planning' by TM, Sky News and D Mail, they did NOT 'forsee' the tragic 'outcome', pressured, knowingly, upon her, by THEM, of BL.

TM possibly 'thought' this (affluent? in their 'eyes'?) lady would just 'roll over' and 'pay up', a 'donation', into their private limited company, Madeleine's 'Fund'

All nicely 'settled' out of court, of course.

They NEVER, EVER, 'seem' to go after 'chavs' from a 'sink estate', who possibly dosen't have 'a pot to piss in' do they?

I have 'asked' the McCanns MANY times to SUE me, but as i don't have feck all 'money', which they know, it's been pointed out to me that they wouldn't 'touch me with a barge pole' no matter how many ' possibly distasteful things' (to them) i say about them.

Still, i suppose, there's a 'silver lining' to this sad story.

MB, who is not ABOVE the law, and is subject to the same laws of 'harrassment and stalking' as we all are in the UK,  has, if he is 'not charged' with an 'offence'(Harass&Stalk) 'possibly' opened the door FOR 'anyone' at 'any time' to be 'doorstepped/confronted'.

I can 'possibly forsee' MB having a hundred 'recording' devices thrust in his face, and awkward questions asked about what he said to BL 'off camera' in her home, before her 'unexpected' death, (LP) if he ever has the 'balls' to report from outside SY, ever again.

WHERE'S BRUNT?    

I wonder certain people were trying to get their hands on more money given that I can't imagine the public are generously donating into 'The Fund' and the 'good quality wrist-bands' probably aren't flying off the shelves. 

This is all too sickening. 

IMO.

BREAKING:

The 'inquest' into BL's 'death' could NOT establish a 'cause' of 'death'

Hmmmm.



So, is 'strangulation/suicide' by 'hanging' NOT a 'cause' of 'death' then?

jeanmonroe wrote:For all the 'scamming, scheming, planning' by TM, Sky News and D Mail, they did NOT 'forsee' the tragic 'outcome', pressured, knowingly, upon her, imo, by THEM, of BL.

TM possibly 'thought' this (affluent? in their 'eyes'?) lady would just 'roll over' and 'pay up', a 'donation', into their private limited company, Madeleine's 'Fund'

All nicely 'settled' out of court, of course.

They NEVER, EVER, 'seem' to go after 'chavs' from a 'sink estate', who possibly dosen't have 'a pot to piss in' do they?

I have 'asked' the McCanns MANY, MANY times to SUE me, but as i don't have feck all 'money', which they know, it's been pointed out to me that they wouldn't 'touch me with a barge pole' no matter how many 'possibly distasteful things' (to them) i say about them.

Still, i suppose, there's a 'silver lining' to this sad story.

MB, who is not ABOVE the law, and is subject to the same laws of 'harrassment and stalking' as we all are in the UK,  has, if he is 'not charged' with an 'offence'(Harass&Stalk) 'possibly' opened the door FOR 'anyone' at 'any time' to be 'doorstepped/confronted'.

I can 'possibly forsee' MB having a hundred 'recording' devices thrust in his face, and awkward questions asked about what he said to BL 'off camera' in her home, before her 'unexpected' death, (LP) if he ever has the 'balls' to report from outside SY, ever again.

WHERE'S BRUNT?    

True! Where's bRunt?

Snifferdog wrote:lj wrote:

  So the McCanns are at the dead center of this tragedy.
Well that's no surprise.

Snifferdog: Yep, no surprise there. The Mccanns are dead centre in all the tragic stories associated with this case...everything they touch...

A bit like the cadaver scent on KM's clothes which was there, according to Kate, because she had been in contact with corpses prior to the holiday in the course of her part-time job as a GP.

Of course.

Any evidence for this?

jeanmonroe wrote:BREAKING:

The 'inquest' into BL's 'death' could NOT establish a 'cause' of 'death'

Hmmmm.



So, is 'strangulation/suicide' by 'hanging' NOT a 'cause' of 'death' then?

I think you need a post mortem to determine strangulation. I could be wrong though.

Where is PG?  

And

Did she 'know' about Cindy Martin's 'tweets' on October 3rd 2014 'threatening BL's life', BEFORE they were 'found/exposed' yesterday? (October 7th 2014)

Where did MB 'get' his 'copy' of the 'troll files dossier' IF the McCann 'family' had 'handed it' DIRECTLY to UK Police?

Wouldn't they, MET police, then be the ONLY ones to have the 'dossier' on September 9th 2014?

Anyone care to guess WHY the McCann's did NOT give the 'troll dossier' to their local police force, Leicestershire Police, as it's 'contents' WERE 'so dangerous' to themselves and the twins?

IF anything had possibly, which it didn't, 'happened' to 'them, who were they going to 'call'?

The 38 'Maddie Cops at OG, IN London, OR, the LP who could 'be there' in minutes?

I'm pretty sure that the Met Police wouldn't have been 'running off' photo copies, of the 'troll dossier' to 'dish out' to( favoured'?) journalists at Sky News and the Daily Fail.

But, of course, having 'observed' the very 'odd' investigation, by elite, experienced police officers, NOTHING about Operation Grange's 'behaviour'  surprises me anymore, and that's my 'opinion'.

"the parents and their friends were not involved or are suspects, in Madeleine's 'disappearance' because er, um, they TOLD us they weren't, and that IS good enough for US"

"Our entire £10+ million, increasing by £6,778 a day, taxpayer funded 'investigation' is based ENTIRELY upon ONLY what the 'missing' child's two parent's have TOLD us"

"unfortunately, after over 3 years investigation, we cannot find any 'evidence' to either 'confirm or deny' the 'missing' child's parents 'story'

"I repeat, we can only 'work' on what ONLY the child's parents have TOLD us, one of whom was the very last person to have seen Madeleine 'alive'"

WHERE did MB get his 'copy' of the 'files' that he waved in front of BL when he 'doorstepped' her?

jeanmonroe wrote:Where is PG  

And

Did she 'know' about Cindy Martin's 'tweets' on October 3rd 2014 'threatening BL's life', BEFORE we found/exposed them, yesterday?

Jean, she's about

juliet wrote:Depends if the Coroner is independent and honest. MB should be chief witness as he holds the secrets of the dossier and the private conversation and perhaps why Brenda left twitter shortly after he started "following" her. As someone has said, doorstepping someone as he did should have been well below his dignity. It was crude and embarrassing for him as well as her. Who obliged him to do it?

Looks like they are waiting for a toxocology report. Who knows what kind of excuses they will find in there to explain her death.

jeanmonroe wrote:Where is PG?  

And

Did she 'know' about Cindy Martin's 'tweets' on October 3rd 2014 'threatening BL's life', BEFORE we found/exposed them, yesterday?

Where did MB 'get' his 'copy' of the 'troll files dossier' IF the McCann 'family' had 'handed it' DIRECTLY to UK Police?

Wouldn't they then be the ONLY ones to have the 'dossier' on September 9th 2014?

I'm pretty sure that the Met Police wouldn't have been 'running off' photo copies, of the 'troll dossier' to 'dish out' to( favoured'?) journalists at Sky News and the Daily Fail.

But of course, NOTHING about Operation Grange's 'behaviour'  surprises me anymore, and that's my 'opinion'.

WHERE did MB get his 'copy' of the 'files' that he waved in front of BL when he 'doorstepped' her?

Multiple copies to anyone who listened to them "poor us look at this"?

Baldrick wrote:

jeanmonroe wrote:BREAKING:

The 'inquest' into BL's 'death' could NOT establish a 'cause' of 'death'

Hmmmm.



So, is 'strangulation/suicide' by 'hanging' NOT a 'cause' of 'death' then?

I think you need a post mortem to determine strangulation. I could be wrong though.

I thought the reports said that the post mortem was inconclusive.

BlueBag wrote:

Baldrick wrote:

jeanmonroe wrote:BREAKING:

The 'inquest' into BL's 'death' could NOT establish a 'cause' of 'death'

Hmmmm.



So, is 'strangulation/suicide' by 'hanging' NOT a 'cause' of 'death' then?

I think you need a post mortem to determine strangulation. I could be wrong though.

I thought the reports said that the post mortem was inconclusive.

Yes sorry it says further tests

Snifferdog wrote:lj wrote:

  So the McCanns are at the dead center of this tragedy.
Well that's no surprise.

Snifferdog: Yep, no surprise there. The Mccanns are dead centre in all the tragic stories associated with this case...everything they touch...

Yeah, the modern midas touch. Sadly it has turned deadly. 

What I can't stand is that will get away with this too: Brunt will take the brunt. maybe the police has some explaining to do, but the McCanns are staying in their pious cocoon.

I really do hope these people are miserable for the rest of their lives.

Baldrick wrote:
Multiple copies to anyone who listened to them "poor us look at this"?
--------------------

THAT makes it WORSE!

If a 'fervent' McCann 'supporter' had 'access' to the 'troll file dossier' BEFORE it was given to Met Police, on 9th September, 2014, couldn't BL's life have been in constant 'danger' at the hands of a possible 'fervent' McCann er, 'supporter' at any time before her 'unexpected' death?

At anytime by way of having 'seen' the 'dossier'and NAMES therein,  beforehand?

"Nuffing to do with us guv, although that/those 'nutter/s' MIGHT of read a copy of the 'troll dossier' we left down the pub, and thought he/she/they would 'do us a favour' and stop our 'torment' from the 'trolls'

IF the McCanns 'gave' access to the 'troll dossier' to ANYONE other than the Police they COULD be possibly 'culpable' if, IF, any crime has been 'committed'.

Getting 'MESSY' ain't it?

lj wrote:

Snifferdog wrote:lj wrote:

  So the McCanns are at the dead center of this tragedy.
Well that's no surprise.

Snifferdog: Yep, no surprise there. The Mccanns are dead centre in all the tragic stories associated with this case...everything they touch...

Yeah, the modern midas touch. Sadly it has turned deadly. 

What I can't stand is that will get away with this too: Brunt will take the brunt. maybe the police has some explaining to do, but the McCanns are staying in their pious cocoon.

I really do hope these people are miserable for the rest of their lives.

Oh, you can't SAY that!

You must be off your "TROLLY" saying THAT!

(Screenshot that, ........Michael 'GRASSER' Wrong!)

jeanmonroe wrote:

lj wrote:

Snifferdog wrote:lj wrote:

  So the McCanns are at the dead center of this tragedy.
Well that's no surprise.

Snifferdog: Yep, no surprise there. The Mccanns are dead centre in all the tragic stories associated with this case...everything they touch...

Yeah, the modern midas touch. Sadly it has turned deadly. 

What I can't stand is that will get away with this too: Brunt will take the brunt. maybe the police has some explaining to do, but the McCanns are staying in their pious cocoon.

I really do hope these people are miserable for the rest of their lives.

Oh, you can't SAY that!

You must be off your "TROLLY" saying THAT!

I am and proud of it!

Strange, ain't it?

ALL the ANTI 'trolls' that ask for, and WANT, the ol' Bill, to 'visit' with them, but never, ever get those 'visits'.

Perhaps the 'traps' would HEAR 'things', from the 'nasty' people that don't, unswervingly, 'believe' the McCann's 'story', they'd rather NOT 'hear'!

"You remember when the McCann's and their family and friends ALL TOLD the world, all on record, that the shutter of G5A was 'smashed, jemmied, broken, forced' by the 'abductor' WELL..............................."

BTW: Sky News have NOT, to date, taken up my 'invitation' for an 'interview'

Can't possibly think WHY not.

I is well nice, innit.?

@ LJ Yeah, the modern midas touch. Sadly it has turned deadly.  

DMML - I thought that....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hkp9f_CjEL4     I like the star of the vid