British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Regarding cremation, I know from my own father's cremation that it isn't 100% ashes. What's left is a mixture of ashes, bone fragments and teeth fragments. I posted this on another thread, but I think you can test bone and tooth fragments for DNA if enough DNA survived the cremation. If the relatives of the cremated woman kept her ashes, and if the PJ or SY investigated those ashes and found bone and teeth fragments... and if they were DNA tested.... it would be interesting to see if Madeleine's DNA was discovered. I wonder if this is what GA is building up to...

Please could you give more information on this j.rob.

I was under the (quite probably mis-)understanding that this was a war graves cemetery.

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I have wondered who is in the "urn"?

This poor child needs her own resting place IMO and that would be the last decent thing for her parents, the ones who where supposed to love and protect her should've done. I'd hate to think this was planned way before hand for certain arrangements to take place, but, IMO, I just can't get outta my head that GM was not on holiday to enjoy himself  

Was 'angel of death' Clarence Mitchell shipped in to facilitate a Catholic funeral for the celebrity couple's deceased daughter? It is quite odd, to say the least, that they visited Huelva in Spain on 3rd August to 'put up posters' and - surprise, surprise - they hadn't realized it was a public holiday (Madeleine, page 207). 

Given how carefully they seemed to plan everything, you would have thought it would be pretty simple to have established that it was a public holiday.

I wonder why it was important that their trip to Huelva coincided with a public holiday? They obviously KNEW it was a public holiday, and it was important in terms of what they were planning to do that it was a public holiday, as Kate has bothered to include this little snippet in her book. 

They had been planning on going the day before, along with Jon Corner and some journalists, apparently to do some filming. But this was the day that the Portuguese police arrived at 10am. "Something to do with forensics? What was all that about?"

Ha, Kate! Can't imagine, can you?!

daffodil wrote:Please could you give more information on this j.rob.

I was under the (quite probably mis-)understanding that this was a war graves cemetery.

The only information I have on this is in the link provided above from another forum. There is quite a bit on the McCann trip to Huelva here. Which incidentally was made precisely 3 months after Madeleine 'disappeared'. 


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Note how an eye-witness sees them in their car in Huelva at 11.20 at some traffic lights. But according to their version of events they arrrive at 12.15pm.

j.rob wrote:Note how an eye-witness sees them in their car in Huelva at 11.20 at some traffic lights. But according to their version of events they arrrive at 12.15pm.

Don't forget they thought Portugal was an hour ahead of the UK    

To go back to the original post, is it possible that Goncalo Amaral is hoping that the publicity generated today will capture the attention of the ' witness to the man on the beach'?

If it is true that this information is 'British sourced', is it too far a leap of the imagination to suspect that it emerged as a result of the Henri Exton enquiries? 
 

And is it also plausible to suspect that it has been similarly suppressed ie by gagging orders?


Is Snr Amaral hoping to force someone's hand here?

It has been said.
It has been reported
It is in the public domain
And it isb aimed at those whose intellectual response may be no more than the couple in "When the Wild Wind blows"

'Ooooh, look here luv' it says they put her body in anoother coffin an' creemayted it. Eeeehh, those buggers. . . ."


And it is difficult to stuff the genie back into the bottle.
Mitchell has lost his grip on the MSM

These x4 postponements are being quoted by the likes of Kevin Macguire and Andrew Pearce (Sky newspaper reviews) in Amaral attacks. Does anyone have the chronological facts on this?

'disgraced' cop (    )...
How lazy these so-called journalists are.  Thank goodness they aren't biased as well...

worriedmum wrote:To go back to the original post, is it possible that Goncalo Amaral is hoping that the publicity generated today will capture the attention of the ' witness to the man on the beach'?

If it is true that this information is 'British sourced', is it too far a leap of the imagination to suspect that it emerged as a result of the Henri Exton enquiries? 
 

And is it also plausible to suspect that it has been similarly suppressed ie by gagging orders?


Is Snr Amaral hoping to force someone's hand here?

I wondered about this too, worriedmum. There again, GA became aware that the British police seconded to Portimao were not trustworthy. So did he make copies?

Mirage wrote:

worriedmum wrote:To go back to the original post, is it possible that Goncalo Amaral is hoping that the publicity generated today will capture the attention of the ' witness to the man on the beach'?

If it is true that this information is 'British sourced', is it too far a leap of the imagination to suspect that it emerged as a result of the Henri Exton enquiries? 
 

And is it also plausible to suspect that it has been similarly suppressed ie by gagging orders?


Is Snr Amaral hoping to force someone's hand here?

I wondered about this too, worriedmum. There again, GA became aware that the British police seconded to Portimao were not trustworthy. So did he make copies?

Who are the witnesses who were intimidated and refused to talk to police and what on earth is in the Oakley report?

Sunday, 27 September 2009  
Mark Hollingsworth Investigates The McCann Files
•Key witnesses were questioned far too aggressively, so much so that some of them later refused to talk to the police.
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re. The Mirror headline tomorrow, I've never understood this preoccupation with the word 'vile'. It's also repeated again and again by some of the strange people on Twitter.

Indricotherium wrote:re. The Mirror headline tomorrow, I've never understood this preoccupation with the word 'vile'. It's also repeated again and again by some of the strange people on Twitter.

How simply vile of them!  

Mirage wrote:These x4 postponements are being quoted by the likes of Kevin Macguire and Andrew Pearce (Sky newspaper reviews) in Amaral attacks. Does anyone have the chronological facts on this?

At least one of the four seems to have been at the behest of the McCann lawyer Isabel Duarte.

One we know was perfectly legitimate re the MMcC being a ward of court in the UK, a fact that the McCanns had signally failed to bring to the attention of the Portugese courts. They only had themselves to blame for that.

That leaves two which can fairly be laid at Amaral's door potentially.  But what the first might be, I've no idea.

Of course the McCanns might be referring to perfectly legitimate appeals.

Mirage wrote:These x4 postponements are being quoted by the likes of Kevin Macguire and Andrew Pearce (Sky newspaper reviews) in Amaral attacks. Does anyone have the chronological facts on this?

Some of the dates are here -

From McCannfiles -

Trial that opposes McCanns and Gonçalo Amaral is suspended TVI24
Decision related to negotiation attempt
By: TVI24   | 18/01/2013 17:43

With many thanks to Astro for translation

The trial that opposes the McCann couple and Gonçalo Amaral, in which Madeleine's parents demand compensation of 1.2 million euro over alleged defamation by the former PJ inspector, has been suspended due to an attempt to reach an extrajudicial agreement.
A judicial source has told Lusa agency that the start of the trial, which was planned for the 24th and the 25th of this month at the 1st circuit of the Civil Court of Lisbon, "has been suspended because the parties are trying to reach an agreement".
The judge's order granting the suspension was signed at the end of last week, which means that now a six-month term runs its course, after which, if there is no agreement between Gonçalo Amaral and the parents of the child that went missing in 2007, in the Algarve, an audience will be scheduled.

The start of this trial has been postponed twice, the first one on the 9th of February of 2012.

The judge then scheduled the start of the trial at the Palace of Justice for the 13th of September of the same year, with another three sessions on the agenda, but none took place due to Gonçalo Amaral's lawyer's unavailability, as he was admitted for a stomach examination under anesthesia.

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From Jill Havern forum -

 Re: Libel Trial 7th Jan Postponed - confirmed
   sallypelt on Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:52 pm
@jontaito Toast 1m

Trial postponed for 3 days of national mourning for Eusebio. No intrigue, no spin. #mccann

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From McCcannfiles -

GERRY MCCANN will today come face to face with the Portuguese police chief who falsely accused him and wife Kate of covering up their daughter Madeleine's death.
By: Mark Reynolds and Gerard
Published: Fri, September 27, 2013

Gerry, 45, is expected to give evidence at a £1million libel trial over Goncalo Amaral's "awful, malicious lies" that the missing youngster died in their Algarve holiday apartment in May 2007.
The consultant cardiologist hopes to take to the witness box in Portugal to accuse Mr Amaral of hindering the search for Madeleine with claims in a book that the McCanns faked her abduction to cover up her death.
Gerry also intends to spell out the pain and anguish the former detective's "awful, malicious lies" have caused his family.
Gerry has submitted a request to be heard as a witness to the court in Lisbon where the case is held.
Judge Maria Emilia Melo e Castro must approve the request before the trial restarts today.
Gerry's sister Trish Cameron has already been confirmed as a witness. Kate McCann attended the start of the case a fortnight ago with her mother Susan Healy and cousin Michael Corner, but she will not be present today.
Mrs Healy was unable to give evidence when the case was held up by a personal emergency for the judge.

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The other postponement was when GA's lawyer's son was rushed into hospital and he had to leave the Court.  It may be on the link above but it's getting too late to check.  (I've just found the date on that link - 27th Sept 2013 - Martin Brunt sent a Tweet from the court)

In poker terms Amaral is now "all in".

God I hope he knows what he is doing.

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Indricotherium wrote:re. The Mirror headline tomorrow, I've never understood this preoccupation with the word 'vile'. It's also repeated again and again by some of the strange people on Twitter.

No mystery, really. Vile is a short but intense word that takes up very little space in a banner headline or intro (especially as two of the four letters are an I and an L. Twitter is also dependant on brevity, so 'vile' and 'evil' go down a storm on there, too.

j.rob wrote:Note how an eye-witness sees them in their car in Huelva at 11.20 at some traffic lights. But according to their version of events they arrrive at 12.15pm.

When questioned about this, I can imagine Gerry McCann saying, Ah yes. Just like those cadaver dogs, eye-witnesses can be so unreliable.

 

I'm really keen to find out the veracity of this and the link Candyfloss posted earlier with all the references to dawn in PdL..that's really intriguing, and definitely sounds like certain people know things.., wish they'd hurry up and reveal all, I understand about timing etc and to use the Mccanns favourite soundbite, getting all of the pieces of the puzzle, but it's so frustrating if there is evidence there, that is being kept under wraps until it can all be tied together, prior to finally resolving this crime.

I am a strong believer that the only reason there has been no action against the McCanns so far is the lack of solid evidence that will secure a conviction in a court of law.  Knowing how slippery the McCanns can be, every i needs to be dotted and every t crossed, but hopefully it is just a matter of time

kevmack wrote:I'm really keen to find out the veracity of this and the link Candyfloss posted earlier with all the references to dawn in PdL..that's really intriguing, and definitely sounds like certain people know things.., wish they'd hurry up and reveal all, I understand about timing etc and to use the Mccanns favourite soundbite, getting all of the pieces of the puzzle, but it's so frustrating if there is evidence there, that is being kept under wraps until it can all be tied together, prior to finally resolving this crime.

I am a strong believer that the only reason there has been no action against the McCanns so far is the lack of solid evidence that will secure a conviction in a court of law.  Knowing how slippery the McCanns can be, every i needs to be dotted and every t crossed, but hopefully it is just a matter of time

They look rattled
I think they have always been confident because they know the body will never be found
This has kept the charade going
But now I think they may be realising that forensics etc have moved on and some cases are brought without a body and the longer this drags out the more chance they have of being rumbled
That coupled with their indented arrogance is written all over their faces
They are used to calling the shots and now they aren't
Not even with SY

Gaggzy wrote:

j.rob wrote:Note how an eye-witness sees them in their car in Huelva at 11.20 at some traffic lights. But according to their version of events they arrrive at 12.15pm.

When questioned about this, I can imagine Gerry McCann saying, Ah yes. Just like those cadaver dogs, eye-witnesses can be so unreliable.

 

 I imagine he would say the allegations are 'ludicrous' or 'ridiculous', or 'you know, we're not even going to answer that'.

noddy100 wrote:

kevmack wrote:I'm really keen to find out the veracity of this and the link Candyfloss posted earlier with all the references to dawn in PdL..that's really intriguing, and definitely sounds like certain people know things.., wish they'd hurry up and reveal all, I understand about timing etc and to use the Mccanns favourite soundbite, getting all of the pieces of the puzzle, but it's so frustrating if there is evidence there, that is being kept under wraps until it can all be tied together, prior to finally resolving this crime.

I am a strong believer that the only reason there has been no action against the McCanns so far is the lack of solid evidence that will secure a conviction in a court of law.  Knowing how slippery the McCanns can be, every i needs to be dotted and every t crossed, but hopefully it is just a matter of time

They look rattled
I think they have always been confident because they know the body will never be found
This has kept the charade going
But now I think they may be realising that forensics etc have moved on and some cases are brought without a body and the longer this drags out the more chance they have of being rumbled
That coupled with their indented arrogance is written all over their faces
They are used to calling the shots and now they aren't
Not even with SY

Undented

Gaggzy wrote:

j.rob wrote:Note how an eye-witness sees them in their car in Huelva at 11.20 at some traffic lights. But according to their version of events they arrrive at 12.15pm.

When questioned about this, I can imagine Gerry McCann saying, Ah yes. Just like those cadaver dogs, eye-witnesses can be so unreliable.

 

Gerry: I can tell you that we have also looked at evidence about (haha) eye-witnesses and they are incredibly unreliable.


Sandra: Unreliable?

Gerry: Eye-witnesses, yes. That's what the evidence shows, if they are tested scientifically."

fossey wrote:

Gerry: I can tell you that we have also looked at evidence about (haha) eye-witnesses and they are incredibly unreliable.

Sadly I believe this is actually considered to be true.

ChippyM wrote:Are bodies really left in coffins unnattended in churches in Portugal? I find it hard to believe unless traditions are very different.

 In the UK the body is kept at a funeral home and then transported to the church or cemetery for the funeral.

Sorry if anyone else has already answered this, I'm playing catch-up.

I grew up in the RC faith in the UK and it is still traditional for coffins to be taken to Church the night before the funeral. There is usually a ceremony as the coffin arrrives at the Church. Then the coffin is left overnight and the friends and family return for the funeral the following day. (In Ireland, the body is kept in the person's home and family, friends and priest attend the "wake", before taking the coffin to the church on the day of the funeral).

sofieellis wrote:

ChippyM wrote:Are bodies really left in coffins unnattended in churches in Portugal? I find it hard to believe unless traditions are very different.

 In the UK the body is kept at a funeral home and then transported to the church or cemetery for the funeral.

Sorry if anyone else has already answered this, I'm playing catch-up.

I grew up in the RC faith in the UK and it is still traditional for coffins to be taken to Church the night before the funeral. There is usually a ceremony as the coffin arrrives at the Church. Then the coffin is left overnight and the friends and family return for the funeral the following day. (In Ireland, the body is kept in the person's home and family, friends and priest attend the "wake", before taking the coffin to the church on the day of the funeral).

That is quite right sofieellis. My mother's coffin was in church overnight. There is usually a small service for mourners. A few prayers. I think it is called vigil.

As you say, it is the norm for Catholics. It has reminded me of when my daughter was learning to play the church organ I had the keys to the RC church on a Wed evening. I used to collect them from the priest and pop them back through the presbytery letterbox after I'd locked up. One winter evening I unlocked the church and found there was a coffin in overnight.  It was a bit unexpected as the priest hadn't told me. But that's how commonplace it is.