Re: "Digging" with a helicopter (continued from 'digging at resort')

by Guest 16.05.14 10:13

AR and his team could have quite easily have slipped in and out of Portugal got in the helicopter and flown over where ever without any publicity so why put it in the public domain other than for a PR exercise, another one of those, "Don't look there look over here"

One of my thoughts is that they are following information from the McCanns PI's so they in turn can't say that not all leads have been investigated. I do believe AR was brought in to close the case by fair means or foul as long as he leaves the McCanns out of the equation. How he will do this remains to be seen, I then have to ask will he be able to live with his conscience, will it prey on his mind that he didn't tell the truth and get the justice for Madeleine Beth McCann?

by Guest 16.05.14 10:13

tasprin wrote:SY can hardly keep schtum about digging in Portugal, it’d be leaked by someone and splashed all over the press in no time. Maybe they publicised those unlikely locations as a diversion but haven’t revealed the locations they’re really interested in. I mean, if everyone believes the police are capable of lying through their teeth to cover things up (and they have pulled a few cover-ups in their time), then they’re just as capable of some creative lying to uncover the truth.

It wouldn't surprise me to find out that, while everyone is concentrating on that patch of waste ground, the real search and/or dig has already started elsewhere.

It would explain why we had the visit trumpeted all over the press last week followed by absolute silence.

:fingerscrossed

by Constablekid 16.05.14 11:26

Slightly OT but not entirely unrelated...

Did anyone see the recent crime drama True Detective?

Wouldn't want to spoil the ending for people but I thought there were some interesting similarities to the Maddie case.

Bloody good drama though - we watched it on Love Film.

by tasprin 16.05.14 11:28

Cherry Blossom wrote:AR and his team could have quite easily have slipped in and out of Portugal got in the helicopter and flown over where ever without any publicity so why put it in the public domain other than for a PR exercise, another one of those, "Don't look there look over here"

One of my thoughts is that they are following information from the McCanns PI's so they in turn can't say that not all leads have been investigated. I do believe AR was brought in to close the case by fair means or foul as long as he leaves the McCanns out of the equation. How he will do this remains to be seen, I then have to ask will he be able to live with his conscience, will it prey on his mind that he didn't tell the truth and get the justice for Madeleine Beth McCann?

Maybe he could have taken the helicopter trip on the quiet but it's possible someone in Portugal could have leaked, and I can't see how they could dig without it being noticed in Portugal. Perhaps he went for an up-front approach with a bit of misinformation thrown in, in the hope it would keep the media off his back for a while and allow him to get on with the job.
The police know that children are at the mercy of the adults around them and they become emotionally invested (e.g April Jones, Michael Kumar) in bringing justice for the child. DCI Redwood said that everything he does is for Madeleine but if he is really aiming for a cover-up, the end result will be announced to a fanfare and whether he likes it or not, he'll have to give interviews. He'll have to sit on a few sofas with a couple of fakes and feign sympathy for them, knowing all the while that he and his officers are fakes as well. He will have to live with the knowledge that together they have all conspired to cover up the truth of a 3YO's disappearance and, for all my scepticism, I can't quite believe he is prepared to do that. ---- But, politicians are a different matter altogether, they'd bury their granny under the patio for a single vote imo.

by ShuBob 16.05.14 11:51

Poe wrote:
tasprin wrote:SY can hardly keep schtum about digging in Portugal, it’d be leaked by someone and splashed all over the press in no time. Maybe they publicised those unlikely locations as a diversion but haven’t revealed the locations they’re really interested in. I mean, if everyone believes the police are capable of lying through their teeth to cover things up (and they have pulled a few cover-ups in their time), then they’re just as capable of some creative lying to uncover the truth.

It wouldn't surprise me to find out that, while everyone is concentrating on that patch of waste ground, the real search and/or dig has already started elsewhere.

It would explain why we had the visit trumpeted all over the press last week followed by absolute silence.

:fingerscrossed

Yep.

Like I mentioned before, the whole thing reminds me of how the PJ wrong-footed the press in the summer of 2007 while they dug Murat's garden. Not one member of the press knew about the dig (or if they did, nothing was said).

by aiyoyo 16.05.14 12:28

Anyhow, this whole 'dig' thing is truly bizzare !
It's like a half-baked Chinese Whisper.....

Coppers flew there and back
Chopper flew over and done
Imminent Dig/s not seen (yet)
Pseudo-sighting still produced, this time for MET team ( for a change)
Don't mention 'die' in certain quarter.

by ChippyM 16.05.14 14:57

Cherry Blossom wrote:AR and his team could have quite easily have slipped in and out of Portugal got in the helicopter and flown over where ever without any publicity so why put it in the public domain other than for a PR exercise, another one of those, "Don't look there look over here"
.....

We can't say for sure that SY hired the photographers to snap the helicopter ride.

The first news about a dig came from the Mirror and a 'source'. Presumably SY have told the McCanns something about what they are planning in Portugal and possibly the same source that gave the mirror the story hired the paps, or possibly the newspaper that they tipped off in the first place.

The McCanns wanted first dibs on the 'dig' story to retain control in the media, to shape it and maybe put people's focus on the ara around 5a. Maybe one solitary photo of a helicopter over 5A suits their purposes. The other photos get people's interest and take people back to the stories all built on what the source in The Mirror said. It could be the McCanns and Mitchell playing the 'look over there game' and not SY.

Maybe their rather huffy blog entry asking for less media intrusion came after they were told off by SY and now we have silence apart from a story that is about a Maddie-alike but not Op Grange or digging.

by MarleneP 16.05.14 15:09

I had a dream:
Monday evening, May 19, 2014 ... TV News ... PJ dug under the supervision of SY in Praja da Luz. They found items that belonged to GM. At 15h 2 people were arrested in Stothley. More will follow in the late news.

by **PeterMac** 16.05.14 15:18

One of the things the helicopter does is tell the public, through the Media, that Operation Grange and the OJ are working together in looking for a burial site,
NOT for a living girl being treated like a Princess and giving someone her tuppenceworth, or whatever other Disney fantasy people are still following.

by **PeterMac** 16.05.14 17:07

MarleneP wrote:I had a dream:
Monday evening, May 19, 2014 ... TV News ... PJ dug under the supervision of SY in Praja da Luz. They found items that belonged to GM. At 15h 2 people were arrested in Stothley. More will follow in the late news.

I have a dream
"We refuse to believe that the bank of justice is bankrupt. "

And as we walk, we must make the pledge that we shall march ahead. We cannot turn back. There are those who are asking the devotees of civil rights for a little girl, "When will you be satisfied?"
We can never be satisfied as long as that little girl is the victim of the unspeakable horrors of nightly abandonment by her parents, and the cynical use of her disappearance as a tool of wealth creation and self aggrandisement of those whose bounden duty was to protect her.

"I have a dream that we will one day live in a nation where parents will not be judged by the content of their wallets, but by the content of their character. I have a dream today !
Let justice ring from every hill and molehill of Portugal. From every mountainside, and in every Courtroom, let justice ring.

And when this happens, and when we allow Justice and Truth to ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual, "Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!"

With acknowledgments to a great man.

by Guest 16.05.14 17:49

Amen MLK.

by Guest 16.05.14 20:22

Châtelaine wrote:Amen MLK.

I've been scrolling back trying to figure out which poster is MLK ...it's been a loooong day roll

by Guest 16.05.14 20:50

Martin Luther King.
Ask PeterMac ;-)

by margaret 17.05.14 19:14

ShuBob wrote:[
Yep.

Like I mentioned before, the whole thing reminds me of how the PJ wrong-footed the press in the summer of 2007 while they dug Murat's garden. Not one member of the press knew about the dig (or if they did, nothing was said).

I don't understand this shubob, was this when Murats home was searched? I thought everyone knew his garden was being dug?

by ShuBob 17.05.14 19:18

margaret wrote:
ShuBob wrote:[
Yep.

Like I mentioned before, the whole thing reminds me of how the PJ wrong-footed the press in the summer of 2007 while they dug Murat's garden. Not one member of the press knew about the dig (or if they did, nothing was said).

I don't understand this shubob, was this when Murats home was searched? I thought everyone knew his garden was being dug?

No one knew about it until the digging had concluded (certainly was at an advanced stage) but the PJ where still had the property IIRC.

by roy rovers 17.05.14 23:22

Maybe they weren't looking FOR anything just getting a full sense of the lie of the land in advance of releasing their own Smith man narrative.

by Justformaddie 18.05.14 0:01

Opps, Roderick Robertson in the frame again according to the mirror! Will this ever be solved?

by MRNOODLES 18.05.14 17:34

ShuBob wrote:
Poe wrote:
tasprin wrote:SY can hardly keep schtum about digging in Portugal, it’d be leaked by someone and splashed all over the press in no time. Maybe they publicised those unlikely locations as a diversion but haven’t revealed the locations they’re really interested in. I mean, if everyone believes the police are capable of lying through their teeth to cover things up (and they have pulled a few cover-ups in their time), then they’re just as capable of some creative lying to uncover the truth.

It wouldn't surprise me to find out that, while everyone is concentrating on that patch of waste ground, the real search and/or dig has already started elsewhere.

It would explain why we had the visit trumpeted all over the press last week followed by absolute silence.

:fingerscrossed

Yep.

Like I mentioned before, the whole thing reminds me of how the PJ wrong-footed the press in the summer of 2007 while they dug Murat's garden. Not one member of the press knew about the dig (or if they did, nothing was said).

Something else crossed my mind with possible misdirection going on. Could there be a possibility while everyone was helicopter watching. Police could've been reconstructing the 'last' photos? I don't know if it's ever been talked about before.

by margaret 18.05.14 21:32

ShuBob wrote:
margaret wrote:
ShuBob wrote:[
Yep.

Like I mentioned before, the whole thing reminds me of how the PJ wrong-footed the press in the summer of 2007 while they dug Murat's garden. Not one member of the press knew about the dig (or if they did, nothing was said).

I don't understand this shubob, was this when Murats home was searched? I thought everyone knew his garden was being dug?

No one knew about it until the digging had concluded (certainly was at an advanced stage) but the PJ where still had the property IIRC.

Thanks, l remember there being a frenzy about supposed underground chambers 'Murat had dug' and something about his garden.

by FH 19.05.14 11:39

A thread on this topic about hospital chillers and a thread on another topic about the smell in the car from taking rubbish to the tip made me think.

There was a mention previously of an entry on Gerry's blog about him taking a broken fridge/freezer (?) to the tip. This entry was whooshed fairly quickly.

Was the hire car the type that the back seats fold down? Would it have been big enough to fit a "broken" fridge in the boot?

Is it possible it was the defrosting fridge/freezer that leaked into the car ?

Did anyone keep a copy of the "fridge->tip" thread, or have an idea of the date Gerry claims the fridge was taken to the tip? Does this fit with the hiring of the hire car/ dog alerts?

Does anyone who lives in PDL know if electrical goods like fridges were recycled in 2007 , the way they would have been in the UK? Or, would it have ended up in landfill?

by beijos 19.05.14 12:17

FH wrote:
Does anyone who lives in PDL know if electrical goods like fridges were recycled in 2007 , the way they would have been in the UK? Or, would it have ended up in landfill?

There is no door/house rubbish collection like the UK. Instead, there are several rubbish collection points where you take your rubbish and separate into the various general/glass/paper/plastic bins. Anything that doesn't fit in the bins, you leave on the side and that's taken away by the camara, or maybe the gypsy will take it. We've seen old fridges, tvs etc left often. In 2007, there were the old style skip bins, but same concept.

Garden waste (like trees and hedge trimmings), are chopped up and left on the side of the road in front of your property. The camara collect it every few days.

by jeanmonroe 19.05.14 12:49

SPOT the 'diliberate' mistake!!!

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Madeleine 'vanished' from holiday villa in SEPTEMBER 2007!

Oh please!

The only people that 'vanished' from Portugal, PDQ, in September 2007 were K&GM, and UK police officers, when the McCanns were made arguido/arguida!

by Lance De Boils 19.05.14 13:31

Are any of our members in the Algarve?
Any sign of any digging?
It's all gone very, very quiet.

by whatliesbehindthesofa 19.05.14 13:36

Lance De Boils wrote:Are any of our members in the Algarve?
Any sign of any digging?
It's all gone very, very quiet.

The quiet before the storm.

by **PeterMac** 20.05.14 20:39

Spot the difference.

3 years searching for a little girl who is very probably dead.

2 days searching for four sailors who are very probably still alive.

by Tangled Web 20.05.14 21:32

PeterMac wrote:Spot the difference.

3 years searching for a little girl who is very probably dead.

2 days searching for four sailors who are very probably still alive.

It's disgusting.

£6-7million? All spent on (more than likely) covering up dirty secrets. This will have to be justified to the public somehow surely.

by Guest 20.05.14 21:53

Its a disgrace. To think how quickly so many countries got involved in the search for mh370,clearly a tragic and huge loss of life,but regardless of the number, these experienced sailors are more than likely alive.

They are.not even giving them a chance.

by Pershing36 21.05.14 10:54

FH wrote:A thread on this topic about hospital chillers and a thread on another topic about the smell in the car from taking rubbish to the tip made me think.

There was a mention previously of an entry on Gerry's blog about him taking a broken fridge/freezer (?) to the tip. This entry was whooshed fairly quickly.

Was the hire car the type that the back seats fold down? Would it have been big enough to fit a "broken" fridge in the boot?

Is it possible it was the defrosting fridge/freezer that leaked into the car ?

Did anyone keep a copy of the "fridge->tip" thread, or have an idea of the date Gerry claims the fridge was taken to the tip? Does this fit with the hiring of the hire car/ dog alerts?

Does anyone who lives in PDL know if electrical goods like fridges were recycled in 2007 , the way they would have been in the UK? Or, would it have ended up in landfill?

I was under the impression the fridge story was untrue.

If not it is probably the most important piece of evidence in the case. According to the story he commented on how helpful they were at the tip. If it was true that means there were witnesses, well at least to the disposal of it.

If it is true a dig may well be looking for a fridge/freezer not a body.

by canada12 21.05.14 15:03

The fridge story is not untrue. I remember it well. I remember mention of it, of Gerry taking it to the dump, and I also recall the comment made by the owner of the place where they were staying at the time. He was somewhat bemused as he had no idea the fridge was broken nor what was wrong with it, and commented that if Gerry had asked him, he would have happily replaced it himself. The landlord's comments were in one of the English-language Portuguese ex-pat newspapers. I read them first-hand, not via someone's postings. I also recall a fairly lengthy discussion on the message boards about what might make a fridge that wasn't very old fail. So it wasn't a made up story. Unfortunately all the original references to it have been whooshed.

by canada12 21.05.14 15:38

I would be hopeful that the Portuguese police would have followed up on the fridge link, talking to the person who owned the place where the McCanns were staying (I can't remember where they were staying - IIRC it wasn't the Ocean Club, it was the next place they stayed after moving out of the Ocean Club's flat that they were moved to after 5A). And also speaking to the newspaper editor and / or reporter who wrote the story for confirmation. Either this was an innocuous fridge replacement by Gerry because the fridge did actually break, or the fridge is a key element. And who knows whether the fridge remained at the dump, or whether it was picked up at some later date and disposed of more permanently.

I wonder if the fridge has been located by the police....