Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat

tuom wrote:

sweetex wrote:Just got back from an evening out.... just to read they are dismissing the claims.

I agree with all posters above that it can not be ignored. Not only for Maddie, but for all we know it could be another person's remains. For all we know he is a con, but now we will never know. How much can it actually cost to dig up a small piece of a garden? How long can it take?

Something is not right

Where did you see that they are dismissing the claims , that is such a pity ,

As an ordinary citizen, I dismiss the claims purely based on what I've read thus far. If Birch has stronger evidence which he hasn't made public but has sent to the relevant authorities, then they should take it seriously. It's easy to suggest the lives of innocent people should be disrupted based on spurious claims when we are not in their shoes.

[quote="ShuBob"]

tuom wrote:

sweetex wrote:Just got back from an evening out.... just to read they are dismissing the claims.

I agree with all posters above that it can not be ignored. Not only for Maddie, but for all we know it could be another person's remains. For all we know he is a con, but now we will never know. How much can it actually cost to dig up a small piece of a garden? How long can it take?

Something is not right

Where did you see that they are dismissing the claims , that is such a pity ,

As an ordinary citizen, I dismiss the claims purely based on what I've read thus far. If Birch has stronger evidence which he hasn't made public but has sent to the relevant authorities, then they should take it seriously. It's easy to suggest the lives of innocent people should be disrupted based on spurious claims when we are not in their shoes.[/quote]



Imo I think their lives will be worse if they don't put an end to the rumour and gossip. They will have the media on their doorstep 24/7 asking questions etc. and won't be able to have a peaceful life. If they agreed to have this small piece of garden dug up (and according to Birch he knows exactly which bit because he thinks he has seen what look like bones) it would certainly put a stop to all that, and then Mr Birch will have to answer some very awkward questions himself.

I don't think so personally but each to their own.

Assuming the Murats agree to have the garden dug up this time if the police ignore the story, what's to stop another Birch coming along and claiming the body was buried at another part of the property? Where will it end? For any digging to take place, I would expect more evidence to the relevant authorities justifying such action.

I hear you. And what you say makes probably sense. My thinking is:

1) If it was my child missing - I'd do anything, and I mean anything to have this followed up. If there is the slightest possibility that my child's body/remains was found I'd do anything to get to Portugal and ask the PJ to assist. I'd probably try and contact SB, to ask him a few questions.

2) If it was me living in that house, I'll practically beg the PJ to come do the excavations. Who wants to sleep inside a house with the possibility of having a body in your garden. Not me that I can assure you.

3) As someone said above, MM has been missing for 5 years. The PJ knows she is dead. They dismiss any claims of sightings, any claims of that she could still be alive. If I am not mistaken, its in the latest report too. They know she died. So now they have a chance or a possibility of finding her body and they dismiss it? Unless they know something we don't?

sweetex wrote:I hear you. And what you say makes probably sense. My thinking is:

1) If it was my child missing - I'd do anything, and I mean anything to have this followed up. If there is the slightest possibility that my child's body/remains was found I'd do anything to get to Portugal and ask the PJ to assist. I'd probably try and contact SB, to ask him a few questions.

2) If it was me living in that house, I'll practically beg the PJ to come do the excavations. Who wants to sleep inside a house with the possibility of having a body in your garden. Not me that I can assure you.

3) As someone said above, MM has been missing for 5 years. The PJ knows she is dead. They dismiss any claims of sightings, any claims of that she could still be alive. If I am not mistaken, its in the latest report too. They know she died. So now they have a chance or a possibility of finding her body and they dismiss it? Unless they know something we don't?

Quite.

sweetex wrote:I hear you. And what you say makes probably sense. My thinking is:

1) If it was my child missing - I'd do anything, and I mean anything to have this followed up. If there is the slightest possibility that my child's body/remains was found I'd do anything to get to Portugal and ask the PJ to assist. I'd probably try and contact SB, to ask him a few questions.

2) If it was me living in that house, I'll practically beg the PJ to come do the excavations. Who wants to sleep inside a house with the possibility of having a body in your garden. Not me that I can assure you.

3) As someone said above, MM has been missing for 5 years. The PJ knows she is dead. They dismiss any claims of sightings, any claims of that she could still be alive. If I am not mistaken, its in the latest report too. They know she died. So now they have a chance or a possibility of finding her body and they dismiss it? Unless they know something we don't?

Indeed sweetex. The McCanns mantra of "leaving no stone unturned" doesn't seem to apply here.

sweetex wrote:I hear you. And what you say makes probably sense. My thinking is:

1) If it was my child missing - I'd do anything, and I mean anything to have this followed up. If there is the slightest possibility that my child's body/remains was found I'd do anything to get to Portugal and ask the PJ to assist. I'd probably try and contact SB, to ask him a few questions.

2) If it was me living in that house, I'll practically beg the PJ to come do the excavations. Who wants to sleep inside a house with the possibily of having a body in your garden. Not me that I can assure you.

3) As someone said above, MM has been missing for 5 years. The PJ knows she is dead. They dismiss any claims of sightings, any claims of that she could still be alive. If I am not mistaken, its in the latest report too. They know she died. So now they have a chance or a possibility of finding her body and they dismiss it? Unless they know something we don't?

"Unless they know something we don't?"
Do you have any doubts that the PJ know more than us?!!
Are we now supposed to believe everything that a South-African says about such a matter?

Blimunda wrote:"Unless they know something we don't?"
Do you have any doubts that the PJ know more than us?!!
Are we now supposed to believe everything that a South-African says about such a matter?

The fact that he is from SA is irrelevant to me. I would have feel the same if he was from any other country? I mean does it really matter?

I'm sure the PJ know more than us, but they have still not found anything new, and this could be something new. Maybe its not a body, but something else related to the case. So in another 10 years time and they still have not found anything, will it then be ok for them to start digging?

I'm sure there were 1000's of leads on this case. There are plenty of people trying to get their 5 minutes of fame. But are there still THAT many leads - after 5 years? Are there other people too sending their evidence to 2 different police forces for investigation? I'm not saying he is for real. but as a mother I would not be able to ignore this one. IMO

ETA: Initially Kate and the T7 were very quick to blame Murat. Kate said more than once that she thinks he is guilty and "I feel like killing him". Only that gives her or the family enough reason to make something of this. Still I'm not saying SB is true, and I'm not blaming Murat. I just wonder, if that was how they felt in the first few weeks, why not following up on this?

In the UK they are blowing doors off people's houses and arresting them on suspision of "terrorism". In this case, the PJ, on the street, accept that they are looking for a body, but it seems that their hands are tied by those in power.

Is this McCann case now a circus to keep our minds occupied while the real crimes go on above our level of understanding or care?

roy roysten, i have had that question on my mind of late too,it certainly does work too ,look how many more people seem to be on sites now? it had been too quiet on most sites for few months .I read an article from jooas site ,it seems to put it clearly that there may be anomolies and its built over a roman area,and it has been very well searched and dug up and dogs ,and as the s a ,chap is also saying the intering was on a definate time and day ,its more than i can understand how he can pinpoint that closely ?sorry spelt JOANNA WRONG. joyce1938

Rob Royston wrote: Is this McCann case now a circus to keep our minds occupied while the real crimes go on above our level of understanding or care?

I think it's merely the law of supply and demand. There's something almost big brotherish about this whole case and has been from the start. There's something for everyone in this story sort of like a "somebody done someone wrong song" so even 5 years on the press can publish anything and we'll still buy it, churn it over and analyse it and the parents pop up like a bad penny for another interview and we accept it and almost welcome it.

I can identify with Stephen Birch, Madeleine needs to be put to rest and the McCann couple taken out of the spotlight, they've definitely outstayed their 15 minutes of fame. But I doubt very much that the answer lies here no matter how many holes they dig at Casa Liliana.

Looks like Robert Murat may be suing Birch, from Joana Morais blog today, which has pictures of the man and his machine......

Robert Murat likely to sue South African businessman

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2012/07/robert-murat-likely-to-sue-south.html

Having slept on this , I can't give much if any credence to Birch because of the simple matter of the dog working with Mr Grime. The work of Grime with Eddie and Morse in the recent case of alleged child abduction in the USA only strengthens my belief in the wonderful work they do. I find it difficult to accept that a body was buried after this search on Murat's property, but unless the police know the impossibility of this having happened, rather than its implausibility, I still can't understand why when police are still none the wiser about who moved Maddie from one location to another and where she is, alive or not, they do not draw a line under this by searching and confirming or not Birch's claims. There must be procedures they are obliged or not to follow when claims like this are made.
Why this sensational story has not appeared even briefly in some of our newspapers puzzles me, even if they rubbish it. The biggest Maddie news story in how long and it is being ignored completely by most media in the UK. It can't be for fear of libel suits from Murat because if they report it and say he was cleared they can rubbish Birch's claims while simultaneously letting the wide public know about them.
What kind of information will the Portuguese police follow up? I wish the Attorney General would give an example of the type of information they would consider not to be mere speculation. No wonder the case is stagnant.
This episode is a puzzle, the real interest for me is in what is in the background. Who is going to benefit from these sensational claims made by Birch?

p.s.no stone left unturned, unless the stone is in certain locations?

russiandoll wrote: Having slept on this , I can't give much if any credence to Birch because of the simple matter of the dog working with Mr Grime. The work of Grime with Eddie and Morse in the recent case of alleged child abduction in the USA only strengthens my belief in the wonderful work they do. I find it difficult to accept that a body was buried after this search on Murat's property, but unless the police know the impossibility of this having happened, rather than its implausibility, I still can't understand why when police are still none the wiser about who moved Maddie from one location to another and where she is, alive or not, they do not draw a line under this by searching and confirming or not Birch's claims. There must be procedures they are obliged or not to follow when claims like this are made.
Why this sensational story has not appeared even briefly in some of our newspapers puzzles me, even if they rubbish it. The biggest Maddie news story in how long and it is being ignored completely by most media in the UK. It can't be for fear of libel suits from Murat because if they report it and say he was cleared they can rubbish Birch's claims while simultaneously letting the wide public know about them.
What kind of information will the Portuguese police follow up? I wish the Attorney General would give an example of the type of information they would consider not to be mere speculation. No wonder the case is stagnant.
This episode is a puzzle, the real interest for me is in what is in the background. Who is going to benefit from these sensational claims made by Birch?

p.s.no stone left unturned, unless the stone is in certain locations?

Good post. From what I can see the bloggers and posters are united in their scepticism of this story. From what little evidence there is of Birch on the internet, prior to this story, he doesn't appear to be a major player in real estate and property development in South Africa.

I am sceptical of Birch's claims, however I am also curious to his motive. He has said he does not think Murat is in any way involved and he has said he does not want contact with the McCanns. He also does not seem like a complete loon! So what is his agenda? Even if trespass doesn't result in a prison sentence, I would have thought opening yourself up to civil lawsuits is unwise unless you are pretty confident in what you are saying.

If he has been put upto this, I can't understand who by, as there do not seem to be any obvious winners. It has just brought the case back into the spotlight once again. It is unlikely to bring increased revenue for the fund, it does bring the focus back to Murat but Birch has been clear he is not involved. The Portuguese are saying it's nonsense. The McCanns themselves do not appear to be bothered by the claims. Only Scotland Yard seem to be indicating any interest. Why?

uppatoffee wrote:Only Scotland Yard seem to be indicating any interest. Why?

How do we even know if that is true? He said it in one of his clips, and in a few reports it comes across that they even asked for more information. Who knows if it is a fact? If it is the truth, then it must be the strangest part of it all. I mean SY (Redwood) seems to be going with the mainstream and McCann's that she is still alive - probably another topic - but still. Now suddenly they are interested in a possible body/remains.

True. I am off the opinion though that Redwood was a great lengths to give nothing away about the nature of the investigation. We know practically nothing about what's going on, we don't even know if they have reinterviewed the Tapas 9, they are hardly likely to admit that themselves. Until the review is complete I am remaining hopeful that justice will be done for Madeleine.

uppatoffee wrote:True. I am off the opinion though that Redwood was a great lengths to give nothing away about the nature of the investigation. We know practically nothing about what's going on, we don't even know if they have reinterviewed the Tapas 9, they are hardly likely to admit that themselves. Until the review is complete I am remaining hopeful that justice will be done for Madeleine.

I was just thinking now, there was a report from Martin Brunt on this? I'll have to go look for it, but I'm almost sure now it was in some SKYnews update. Does it make it true? I don't know. First report from Martin Brunt on this case in a while, so maybe it does mean they are interested. I agree with the fact that Redwood will not give anything away about the nature of the investigation, so this may very well be true. I just thought chances are bigger for the PJ to be interested than SY. Never a dull moment hey?

Indeed! I wonder whether the pressure that was put on the PJ back in 2007 is still there? Certainly Pinto (?) seems incredibly opposed to Amaral and seems to be very keen to discredit him and the investigation.

sweetex wrote:

uppatoffee wrote:True. I am off the opinion though that Redwood was a great lengths to give nothing away about the nature of the investigation. We know practically nothing about what's going on, we don't even know if they have reinterviewed the Tapas 9, they are hardly likely to admit that themselves. Until the review is complete I am remaining hopeful that justice will be done for Madeleine.

I was just thinking now, there was a report from Martin Brunt on this? I'll have to go look for it, but I'm almost sure now it was in some SKYnews update. Does it make it true? I don't know. First report from Martin Brunt on this case in a while, so maybe it does mean they are interested. I agree with the fact that Redwood will not give anything away about the nature of the investigation, so this may very well be true. I just thought chances are bigger for the PJ to be interested than SY. Never a dull moment hey?

Could it be the spooks bringing people into line? Cameron's government were aledgedly railroaded into authorising the SY inquiry by the media. The media are like rabbits caught in the headlights with this story as it has not come from one of their approved sources. There is no journalism anymore, they get their stories from the Clarence Mitchell's of this world.

The PJ have their own control issues. I am sure the police on the ground at SY and the PJ know a lot more than they are allowed to act on. There is a power struggle at a higher level and this man looks like he is acting for one of the protagonists.

Maddie: South African businessman launches challenge to Robert Murat

Stephen Birch, South African businessman, says Maddie (pictured) is buried in the backyard of Murat and challenges Britain to do excavation



http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/detalhe/noticias/exclusivo-cm/ele-que-deixe-escavar-o-local-com-video

Maddie again

by Moita Flores

http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/detalhe/noticias/opiniao/maddie-de-novo

uppatoffe wrote,

"If he has been put upto this, I can't understand who by, as there do not seem to be any obvious winners. It has just brought the case back into the spotlight once again. It is unlikely to bring increased revenue for the fund, it does bring the focus back to Murat but Birch has been clear he is not involved."



Who would benefit right now from this man's story?

My guess is somebody who needs a distraction and who has maintained or strongly suspected that either:

1. the parents had killed her and disposed of her body

or

2. she had an accident and the parents panicked and disposed of the body.



As you say this guy is stating strongly that Mr Murat is not involved which makes me feel that he is pointing the finger at the McCanns and that only benefits those who disbelieve them and think that they had some involvement in Madeleine's disappearance.

In my opinion, based only on what we have been fed to date, his statement does not ring true for a few reasons, the obvious being those two massive guard dogs. It would be so easy for the authorities to dig up Mr Murat's garden and prove this man wrong, so why make such an allegation? Maybe he has been paid by somebody who would benefit right now from a little distraction and I would not imagine that the McCanns need to do that currently.

Mr Murat and his family must wonder if this dreadful intrusion and interruption to their lives is ever going to end.

Meagain wrote:uppatoffe wrote,

"If he has been put upto this, I can't understand who by, as there do not seem to be any obvious winners. It has just brought the case back into the spotlight once again. It is unlikely to bring increased revenue for the fund, it does bring the focus back to Murat but Birch has been clear he is not involved."



Who would benefit right now from this man's story?

My guess is somebody who needs a distraction and who has maintained or strongly suspected that either:

1. the parents had killed her and disposed of her body

or

2. she had an accident and the parents panicked and disposed of the body.



As you say this guy is stating strongly that Mr Murat is not involved which makes me feel that he is pointing the finger at the McCanns and that only benefits those who disbelieve them and think that they had some involvement in Madeleine's disappearance.

In my opinion, based only on what we have been fed to date, his statement does not ring true for a few reasons, the obvious being those two massive guard dogs. It would be so easy for the authorities to dig up Mr Murat's garden and prove this man wrong, so why make such an allegation? Maybe he has been paid by somebody who would benefit right now from a little distraction and I would not imagine that the McCanns need to do that currently.

Mr Murat and his family must wonder if this dreadful intrusion and interruption to their lives is ever going to end.

Now, I wonder who you could be talking about here Kololi? The person I believe you are talking about has said that the garden was thoroughly searched. Why don't you openly say who you are talking about?

Lady-Heather wrote:

Clouseau wrote:I believe 103% in the dogs.

A corpse was in the back of that hire car so are we expected to believe that the child was relocated there 20 odd days later with the whole worlds media looking on

i dont think so

I disagree with this based on Martin Grimes statement regarding transferral of odour: http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES_RIGATORY.htm

If Kate's clothes/cuddle cat/other items were found to have been in contact with a cadavar, which then subsequently contacted another surface (the car boot) it is plausible that the dogs were alerting to odour which had transferred from one of these items to another.

But there was genetic material found in the boot of the car, not just odour. This material gave the impression it had been frozen or placed on ice.

So it wasn't simply odour they discovered in the car.