Kate's Bad Dream

by Autumn 20.01.10 2:02

From an article by Dr Martin Robert - The Daily Telegraph 12.01.10

"Police Inspector Ricardo Paiva, who acted as a liason between the McCanns and Portuguese Police in the days following their daughter's disappearance, told the Court he had received the phone call in late July 2007.

"Kate called me, she was alone as Gerry was away and she was crying" he said. "She said that she dreamt that Madeleine was on a hill and that we should search for her there. She gave the impression that she thought she was dead - it was a turning point for us".

As reported direct from Lisbon the following day (5.04 pm)

"He (Gerry McCann) also rejected the testimony yesterday that Kate had a dream about Madeleine lying buried somewhere, saying "that never happened".

As Gerry wasn't there when the phone call was made, how would he know?

In subsequent press reports Gerry says: - 'I'd like to make it absolutely clear that Kate has never had a dream that Maddie has been BURIED somewhere, and I don't know if something has been lost in interpretation, but that didn't happen -not with those words, that's for sure".

So the phone call did happen but the word 'burial' was not mentioned. We know that is so, as Inspector Paiva's evidence referred to Madeleine lying ON a hill not IN one.

Now where might Gerry have got the idea of 'Burial' from?

by aliberte2 20.01.10 14:17

Autumn, Dr. Roberts' piece was in the Daily Telegraph??

by vaguely1 20.01.10 14:25

Autumn - you would have to know what word their interpreters used in the process of the libel trial in order to find out where he got the idea from.

by vaguely1 20.01.10 14:54

Telegraph?

by Autumn 20.01.10 16:17

Here is a vid link to Gerry talking about Kate's dream.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNn2kNNjpnQ

by vaguely1 20.01.10 16:26

Yes, I saw that. I was just trying to convey that unless we know the words used by the interpreters in the court, we don't know what he was told about the dream description.

Was Daily Telegraph the title of this piece of writing? I'm sure this is taken from Nigel's.

by Autumn 20.01.10 16:37

vaguely1 wrote:Yes, I saw that. I was just trying to convey that unless we know the words used by the interpreters in the court, we don't know what he was told about the dream description.

Was Daily Telegraph the title of this piece of writing? I'm sure this is taken from Nigel's.

The Daily Telegrahp article, imo, gave the most comprehensive coverage of the trial. Here is a link to the article in which Kate's dream is referred to.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/portugal/6974917/Madeleine-McCanns-death-covered-up-by-parents-who-faked-kidnap-court-hears.html

by vaguely1 20.01.10 16:43

No I was referring to the article you C&P - it makes it look like it comes from the Daily Telegraph.... Does it come from the Daily Telegraph?

by Autumn 20.01.10 17:40

The first part of the OP is from the Daily Telegraph - if you read the article, Ricardo Paiva goes on to say that the land was searched and it was decided, at that point, to bring in the specialist dogs.

by vaguely1 20.01.10 17:48

Oh okay, It might be worth clarifying that - the layout makes it look as if he is writing the entire article for the Telegraph.

by Autumn 21.01.10 2:51

Anyway, back on topic, we know that the phone call was made in late June 2007 when Gerry was away. This makes the likely time she called between 22nd - 26th when Gerry was in Washington.

Kate Diary entry - Monday 23rd July

'I got up at 7.00 and went running. I was surrounded by a pack of dogs (more or less 12) - it really wasn't a nice experience.

I went to the flat, high part of the cliff as I felt really alone and a little frightened. PLEASE GOD DON'T LET MADELEINE BE BURIED HERE. Please God make sure she's alive. Please God bring her back quickly to us'.

by vaguely1 21.01.10 7:16

(edit to remove text)

The police considered it strange enough that a mother would have fears and thoughts about where her missing child was that they decided she'd killled her. Decided she was leaving them cryptic clues. Kate's Bad Dream 234726

ETA, sorry, slightly uncharitable of me not to add that that was well researched Autumn - what are your thoughts on the date differences?

by nemesis/muratfan 21.01.10 18:29

Autumn...would you like to go back to where you read about Kate's dream and correct yourself please.

by Autumn 21.01.10 18:55

Sorry I cant, the window of opportunity has passed.

by nemesis/muratfan 21.01.10 18:57

Fact is you are about a month out. The quote you are using is from her diary.

AND IT WAS NOT A DREAM AS IT DID HAPPEN WHEN SHE WENT TO THE ROCKS.

Some people hey, stop listening to what some have to say, read things for yourself and think for yourselves. All will become clear

by Autumn 21.01.10 19:41

nemesis wrote:Fact is you are about a month out. The quote you are using is from her diary.

AND IT WAS NOT A DREAM AS IT DID HAPPEN WHEN SHE WENT TO THE ROCKS.

Some people hey, stop listening to what some have to say, read things for yourself and think for yourselves. All will become clear

Kate often went jogging up the hill.

Kate recorded the coments about the dogs and fears about Maddie being buried in her diary on the 23rd June, when Gerry was away.

Kate conacted the liason officer about her dream, late July 2007.

They are facts.

by vaguely1 21.01.10 19:45

Your post says 23rd July.

Maybe this is what's leading to the confusion.

Maybe you could clarify which one of the dates is the factual one.

by nemesis/muratfan 21.01.10 21:07

Autumn wrote:
nemesis wrote:Fact is you are about a month out. The quote you are using is from her diary.

AND IT WAS NOT A DREAM AS IT DID HAPPEN WHEN SHE WENT TO THE ROCKS.

Some people hey, stop listening to what some have to say, read things for yourself and think for yourselves. All will become clear

Kate often went jogging up the hill.

Kate recorded the coments about the dogs and fears about Maddie being buried in her diary on the 23rd June, when Gerry was away.

Kate conacted the liason officer about her dream, late July 2007.

They are facts.

I wonder did the PJ actually liook for Madeleine at the hill? Or did they just leave it?

by Kololi 21.01.10 22:39

That entry in Mrs McCanns diary is heart breaking.

Take care

by twinkle 21.01.10 23:16

I agree Kololi, very heartbreaking.

by Autumn 22.01.10 19:41

Just to clarify the dates as I cannot edit my earlier posts.

Gerry McCann away in Washington 22nd July - 26th July 2007

Kate records in her diary:-

'I got up at 7.00 and went running. I was surrounded by a pack of dogs (more or less 12) - it really wasn't a nice experence.

I went to the flat high part of the cliff as I felt really alone and a little frightened. Please God, don't let Madeleine be buried here. Please God, make sure she's alive. Please God, bring her back quickly to us.'
23rd July 2007.

Kate calls Ricardo Paiva (liason officer and inspector) - he said 'Kate called me, she was alone as Gerry was away and she was crying,' he said that 'She said she had dreamt that Madeleine was on a hill and we should look for her there. She gave the impression that she thought Madeleine was dead - it was a turning point for us'.
late July 2007

by nemesis/muratfan 22.01.10 19:54

So an officer cannot remember what date this damming evidence was given. Pathetic, useless Police force.

by ufercoffy 22.01.10 19:58

Talking about pathetic useless police forces... remember Leicester police and Fiona Pilkington? Guess they've all got their faults.

by **Tony Bennett** 22.01.10 22:51

Autumn wrote:From an article by Dr Martin Robert - The Daily Telegraph 12.01.10

"Police Inspector Ricardo Paiva, who acted as a liason between the McCanns and Portuguese Police in the days following their daughter's disappearance, told the Court he had received the phone call in late July 2007.

"Kate called me, she was alone as Gerry was away and she was crying" he said. "She said that she dreamt that Madeleine was on a hill and that we should search for her there. She gave the impression that she thought she was dead - it was a turning point for us".

Good policing.

Realising that, in the absence of Gerry (? White House ? TV show) Dr Kate McCann's subconscious mind was speaking and giving the police a vital clue.

Does anyone really find Gerry's denial of Kate's dream credible?

by vaguely1 22.01.10 22:58

I thought it was from a diary entry that Autumn posted the other day.

by Autumn 23.01.10 0:00

vaguely1 wrote:I thought it was from a diary entry that Autumn posted the other day.

Vaguely, please refer to my previous post where I have set out clearly what kate recorded in her diary on 23rd July 2007.

by nemesis/muratfan 23.01.10 0:22

Tony Bennett wrote:
Autumn wrote:From an article by Dr Martin Robert - The Daily Telegraph 12.01.10

"Police Inspector Ricardo Paiva, who acted as a liason between the McCanns and Portuguese Police in the days following their daughter's disappearance, told the Court he had received the phone call in late July 2007.

"Kate called me, she was alone as Gerry was away and she was crying" he said. "She said that she dreamt that Madeleine was on a hill and that we should search for her there. She gave the impression that she thought she was dead - it was a turning point for us".
Good policing.

Realising that, in the absence of Gerry (? White House ? TV show) Dr Kate McCann's subconscious mind was speaking and giving the police a vital clue.

Does anyone really find Gerry's denial of Kate's dream credible?

Tony you have your dates mixed up.

by Autumn 23.01.10 0:31

nemesis wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:
Autumn wrote:From an article by Dr Martin Robert - The Daily Telegraph 12.01.10

"Police Inspector Ricardo Paiva, who acted as a liason between the McCanns and Portuguese Police in the days following their daughter's disappearance, told the Court he had received the phone call in late July 2007.

"Kate called me, she was alone as Gerry was away and she was crying" he said. "She said that she dreamt that Madeleine was on a hill and that we should search for her there. She gave the impression that she thought she was dead - it was a turning point for us".
Good policing.

Realising that, in the absence of Gerry (? White House ? TV show) Dr Kate McCann's subconscious mind was speaking and giving the police a vital clue.

Does anyone really find Gerry's denial of Kate's dream credible?

Tony you have your dates mixed up.

Which dates are you disputing?

by nemesis/muratfan 23.01.10 0:36

The ones you have given Kates entry for the diarand when the Insp claimed Kate told him about the dream do not match.

by vaguely1 23.01.10 8:47

Autumn wrote:
vaguely1 wrote:I thought it was from a diary entry that Autumn posted the other day.

Vaguely, please refer to my previous post where I have set out clearly what kate recorded in her diary on 23rd July 2007.

I was referring to that.

Is there any mention in the police files of the call that Kate made in June.

Or is the only mention made in July in her diary.

The police in this type of investigation would have logged her call.