Kate and Gerry McCann: The books found in their apartment and the search by British sniffer dogs, Eddie and Keela

by **Jill Havern** 26.09.11 17:11

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by russiandoll 26.09.11 17:46

Am always impressed by these dogs' skills. and recall Kate's dismissal of them when she saw the videos.a "film show" she described them as and another good one, the police's acceptance of results on the "say-so" of a couple of dogs. You really could not make it up, could you? from the woman who expected the PJ to accept the abduction scenario.........on her say so !

by HFS 26.09.11 22:05

Oops, just in time I noticed I clicked the wrong button, starting a new topic. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I'm still impressed watching those videos. But I never understood why the PJ didn't send the clothes and CC for testing.
Or how the McCanns got hold of those manuals. That wasn't mentioned in the 48 questions, was it? Did the PJ find out about that?

by Guest 27.09.11 19:06

As I can see Brian is Kates Father , Madeleines grandfather?

I saw on the first video with the dogs, those pills, they are as it looks to me ,given to her by her father, so he is a doctor? And the farmacy that gave the pills out are called Mccann Chemists`? ( really sorry about my bad english, im very tiered today)

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by Smokeandmirrors 27.09.11 19:14

The prescription was for Kate's father, the pharmascist was McCanns in Liverpool. Another coincidence? I'd never heard of the name McCann apart from McCann Eriksonn before this case, and now they've gotten everywhere!

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by Guest 27.09.11 19:20

`Thanks for clearifying :) He sure got a lot of pills..Funny the pharmacy was named Mccann..

by Guest 27.09.11 20:00

It is a very common name in the Liverpool area and also parts of Ireland and Scotland.

by Invinoveritas 30.09.11 9:35

russiandoll wrote:Am always impressed by these dogs' skills. and recall Kate's dismissal of them when she saw the videos.a "film show" she described them as and another good one, the police's acceptance of results on the "say-so" of a couple of dogs. You really could not make it up, could you? from the woman who expected the PJ to accept the abduction scenario.........on her say so !

Just picked this up from the BBC News-site:snip

29 September 2011 Last updated at 23:15 GMT

'Brave' Afghanistan Army dog handler becomes an MBE

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] Sergeant Kaye Wilson said she was 'humbled' by being appointed an MBE

An Army sergeant who saved "countless" lives by uncovering bombs in Afghanistan with her explosives sniffer dog has been appointed an MBE.

Kaye Wilson, of Shrewsbury, Shropshire, was honoured for her "unwavering bravery" in searching for improvised explosive devices in Helmand.

The 35-year-old worked with a Belgian Shepherd Malinois dog, called Obama.

The Royal Army Veterinary Corps soldier said it was "amazing" to become an MBE.

She joked that she would share it with two-and-a-half-year-old Obama, who remains in Afghanistan, adding: "It's a team effort. I feel very humbled." end snip

No doubt this will be dissed, by the Mccanns and their followers who will say, yes, but IEDS aren´t blood and cadaver, and things like: if the dogs are that good then why have more than 300 young men and women lost their lives and over 1700 been maimed for life.

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by Fossilfuel 31.10.11 19:19

Moa wrote:`Thanks for clearifying :) He sure got a lot of pills..Funny the pharmacy was named Mccann..

Kates father has Parkinsons disease.

by **Nina** 31.10.11 19:48

Fossilfuel wrote:
Moa wrote:`Thanks for clearifying :) He sure got a lot of pills..Funny the pharmacy was named Mccann..
Kates father has Parkinsons disease.

So what were they doing with his medication I wonder. They as doctors would know the danger of taking medication not prescribed to taker, if you understand me [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by butterfly23 23.09.12 1:06

i have read today that it seems that there is a story that a sniffer dog found a trail from the apartment leading to a nearby car park- this is meant to be before eddie & keela were brought in i think ??? any truth in this ??? wondering why pro-mccann people will believe this sniffer dog as it may back up abduction story- yet they will dismiss all sniffer dogs after they found traces on kate, her clothing, cuddlecat, below the window & also in the hired car the mccanns were using .........[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by soundworks 19.10.13 12:41

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by Smokeandmirrors 19.10.13 12:47

butterfly23 wrote:i have read today that it seems that there is a story that a sniffer dog found a trail from the apartment leading to a nearby car park- this is meant to be before eddie & keela were brought in i think ??? any truth in this ??? wondering why pro-mccann people will believe this sniffer dog as it may back up abduction story- yet they will dismiss all sniffer dogs after they found traces on kate, her clothing, cuddlecat, below the window & also in the hired car the mccanns were using .........[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

That is the big question! If they were going to doubt either of the dogs reliability, surely they would doubt the sardine munching hounds over Britains finest!! But this is just typical of the nonsensical thought processes of The Cult!!

by worriedmum 19.10.13 13:29

I've just watched the second video.

Three things struck me.

Firstly, the respectful way in which the process was carried out.

The second thing is, how Martin Grimes does not 'direct' the dogs, as some have said, more accurately he makes sure that they examine everything that is laid out.

The third thing is, if , as according to certain people , cadaver odour is easily transferable blah blah picked up from work blah blah , tell me please WHY the whole box of clothes containing the checked trousers, white top and the red t shirt are not alerted to? Why not every single thing in it?Hmmmm?

by Knitted 18.01.15 3:20

I've had a bit of a search here for absolute clarification of the books/booklets found in 5a. The videos in this sticky no longer work so I don't know what was on them. Judging by the thread title the videos showed the book titles as well as the reactions of the well-trained dogs.

On [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] there are images of an open booklet with a heading saying 'Missing and Abducted Children', and a book titled "Every Five Minutes - A review of the available data on Missing Children in the UK" (see screen-grab below):
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I note that another thread about this topic went off on a tangent about Lance Armstrong, because his book was also in Apt 5a. Surely, that wouldn't have happened if there were indeed books/booklets about 'Missing and Abducted Children' also sitting there in 5a? So I think I must be misinterpreting what the above website seems to be showing as being found in Apt 5a?

Can anyone here shed any light on this and confirm exactly what literature was in Apt 5a? Thanks.

by **Nina** 18.01.15 9:14

Knitted wrote:I've had a bit of a search here for absolute clarification of the books/booklets found in 5a. The videos in this sticky no longer work so I don't know what was on them. Judging by the thread title the videos showed the book titles as well as the reactions of the well-trained dogs.

On [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] there are images of an open booklet with a heading saying 'Missing and Abducted Children', and a book titled "Every Five Minutes - A review of the available data on Missing Children in the UK" (see screen-grab below):
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" />

I note that another thread about this topic went off on a tangent about Lance Armstrong, because his book was also in Apt 5a. Surely, that wouldn't have happened if there were indeed books/booklets about 'Missing and Abducted Children' also sitting there in 5a? So I think I must be misinterpreting what the above website seems to be showing as being found in Apt 5a?

Can anyone here shed any light on this and confirm exactly what literature was in Apt 5a? Thanks.

Hi Knitted. The two books/manuals you show here were video recorded in the villa the McCanns moved to not in 5A. We don't know what reading material they had in 5A.

by Knitted 18.01.15 10:57

Nina wrote:
[Snipped]Hi Knitted. The two books/manuals you show here were video recorded in the villa the McCanns moved to not in 5A. We don't know what reading material they had in 5A.

Hi Nina... I'd only ever seen stills taken of 5a, so many thanks for the confirmation that these are from 'after the event' and thus resolving my confusion :)

by G-Unit 18.01.15 12:32

butterfly23 wrote:i have read today that it seems that there is a story that a sniffer dog found a trail from the apartment leading to a nearby car park- this is meant to be before eddie & keela were brought in i think ??? any truth in this ??? wondering why pro-mccann people will believe this sniffer dog as it may back up abduction story- yet they will dismiss all sniffer dogs after they found traces on kate, her clothing, cuddlecat, below the window & also in the hired car the mccanns were using .........[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

The GNR used 2 dogs, and strangely, both dogs exited the front door of the apartment and turned left, towards Block G4. They then went down the path between Blocks G4 and G5, turned left again and came along the back, between the apartments and the Tapas/pool area. When they reached the road they turned right and ended up in the car park. There is a diagram here if you scroll down
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This search took place on 8th May, and surprise surprise, Gerry McCann's statement on 10th May says;
That, between Monday and Wednesday, not knowing the precise date, when they left the residence by the main door, to place the children in the respective creches, MADELEINE left[went] running to the left to the extreme opposite of the residential blocks where they were lodged, playing with the twins. That they had gone down to the furthest point away from those blocks, not knowing exactly how, the three children got into the gardens at the rear [of the blocks]. Then they followed the inside corridor [pathway] at the rear, next to the hedges[fences] up to the street that led to the secondary reception.
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The police may have asked him if Madeleine had been down there as that's where the dogs went, and, as usual, he had an answer. Just as an aside I have often wondered if Jeremy Wilkins ever used that path, as it possibly would have saved time when going from his Block (G4) to the Tapas area. David Payne suggested that the path, or alleyway, was well used;
there was the walk where the alley way which you know then separated the block from the Ocean Club. Err so we generally, if I chatted to anyone it wasn't usually when they were in the garden below us it was more, they would be either walking you know we'd be sat on the balcony and someone would walk by

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by rustyjames 18.01.15 20:13

Knitted - the video is still on Daily Motion here - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The books are around the 40 second mark.

by Knitted 18.01.15 23:02

rustyjames wrote:Knitted - the video is still on Daily Motion here - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The books are around the 40 second mark.

Thanks for the link... Interesting range of reading material !! I can't imagine ever again reading a book about murder if one of my kids was 'missing'. Indeed, I've skimmed through the reviews of the 'The Interpretation of Murder' and see one reviewer bemoan "the unnecessarily detailed descriptions of the sadistic sexual assaults, described in prolonged lip-smacking detail..." (source: Reviewer 'Phoebe' on 'goodreads.com', 22nd Jan 2014).

Ultimately the 'whys and wherefores' of the various books are academic. However, who it was and why someone gave them the booklets such as 'Missing and Abducted Children - A Law Enforcement Guide to Case Investigation and Program Management' would be interesting to know, (although someone may of course have been being helpful).

As my original question has now been been answered by Nina and yourself thanks

I can stop myself from going off on a tangent, and more importantly let this thread to get back to the topic of the two highly trained, unbiased, experts...Eddie and Keela! :D

by guest12345 28.09.15 15:32

An educated guess would be that someone from NCA or CEOP left/gave them the books in the first few days after the crime, for the parents to read and educate themselves on the likely chain of events/outcome to stop them asking so many questions or making wild assumptions. (Gerry no doubt asked for them to aid his 'search').

I don't think there is anything sinister in these books as they were found in the apartment they were stopping in, post event, not in 5A

by sammyc 28.09.15 21:38

guest12345 wrote:An educated guess would be that someone from NCA or CEOP left/gave them the books in the first few days after the crime, for the parents to read and educate themselves on the likely chain of events/outcome to stop them asking so many questions or making wild assumptions. (Gerry no doubt asked for them to aid his 'search').

I don't think there is anything sinister in these books as they were found in the apartment they were stopping in, post event, not in 5A

Can you provide any other cases of missing U.K born children where NCA or CEOP have left/gave these types of books in the first few days after the crime - what crime??? abduction? pah -for the parents to read and educate themselves? Did NCA or CEOP give the same books to Milly Dowler's, April Jones' or Ben Needham's parents? Proof please. TIA.

by Guest 28.09.15 22:28

guest12345 wrote:An educated guess would be that someone from NCA or CEOP left/gave them the books in the first few days after the crime, for the parents to read and educate themselves on the likely chain of events/outcome to stop them asking so many questions or making wild assumptions. (Gerry no doubt asked for them to aid his 'search').

I don't think there is anything sinister in these books as they were found in the apartment they were stopping in, post event, not in 5A

The Truth of the Lie by Goncalo Amaral - Chapter 17: In the McCanns Bedroom..

In contrast, in the part of the room occupied by Gerald, the walls are bare, cold, no photos of his daughter. It’s here that he administers the Madeleine Fund, organises his very busy agenda and writes his blog. His current reading material – The Interpretation of Murder, by Jed Rubenfeld, Spirit Messenger, by Gordon Smith, It’s Not About The Bike: My Journey Back To Life, by Lance Armstrong, – leaves nothing at all to the imagination about the drama the family is living through. With amazement the police officers discover a series of books and manuals exclusively intended for police services and government agencies.

– Missing and Abducted Children: A Law-Enforcement Guide to Case Investigation and Program Management, National Center for Missing & Exploited Children

– Training Courses, (CEOP Serious Organised Crime Agency – Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre)

– Making Every Child Matter…Everywhere, CEOP (Serious Organised Crime Agency – Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre).
Mark Harrison himself wonders how Gerald McCann could have obtained these books.
~~~~~~

Mark Harrison in brief..

Specialist in murder, and the search for missing persons and victims of natural disasters. National advisor to the British police, he is well known for his exceptional professional experience. He has already participated in dozens of international criminal investigations.

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by ROSA 29.09.15 3:56

Probably the books were just props staged to further their abduction claim another good marketing ploy they are spin doctors after all feel sorry that Madeleine had such ridiculous self centered parents poor kid :bad:

by Liz Eagles 29.09.15 21:56

Jim Gamble is surely the one to ask why the McCanns were in possession of CEOP manuals.

Does anyone remember this truly dreadful article in the Daily Telegraph (which doesn't list a reporter's name) on September 1st 2014, at the time when Jim Gamble was banging the Summers & Swan drum where he calls the Portuguese investigation haphazard and nothing like you'd expect in a country like UK and then goes on to say too many UK agencies were trying so hard to be helpful it caused chaos.

Amazingly some of the content of JG's scoping review that was never published was revealed to Sky News just as the Summers and Swan book was launched and just prior to the despicable Sky News treatment of Brenda Leyland.

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Here is are a direct question I'd like Jim Gamble to answer.

Why did the McCanns have CEOP manuals and who issued them on your watch?

by guest12345 30.09.15 9:29

sammyc wrote:
guest12345 wrote:An educated guess would be that someone from NCA or CEOP left/gave them the books in the first few days after the crime, for the parents to read and educate themselves on the likely chain of events/outcome to stop them asking so many questions or making wild assumptions. (Gerry no doubt asked for them to aid his 'search').

I don't think there is anything sinister in these books as they were found in the apartment they were stopping in, post event, not in 5A
Can you provide any other cases of missing U.K born children where NCA or CEOP have left/gave these types of books in the first few days after the crime Other cases have no relevance to this case. - what crime??? abduction? That seemed to be the approach by NCA/SOCA/CEOP at the very early stages, hence the books and their attendance on scene so quickly (most likely based on intelligence they have of certain people operating in the area at the time) pah -for the parents to read and educate themselves? Yes, i have no doubt Gerry certainly would have been asking lots of questions about 'what happens now?', 'what is the next step?' 'how do these people operate' and the books no doubt got left as investigators had to return back to the UK. Did NCA or CEOP give the same books to Milly Dowler's, April Jones' or Ben Needham's parents? Proof please. TIA. Again, no idea if they did or didn't and non of those cases have any relevance to this case. Those cases you mention happened in the UK, not abroad. I don't even know if CEOP were involved in those 3 cases. Different investigators act in different ways, i'm sure there were different officers working on the McCann case.

and yes, as another poster has stated...the only person to answer the question as to why they have copies of the manuals is Jim Gamble, or the investigators he sent to the scene (names of all of the investigators involved will most certainly not be in the public domain).

by Liz Eagles 30.09.15 10:47

You have to ask yourself the very serious question as to the guidelines regarding the use and distribution of these CEOP manuals. Perhaps Mr Gamble can fill the public in on this - or perhaps he'll choose not to and claim everyone was trying to be helpful and the various UK agencies were almost competing with each other (see Daily Telegraph article) and creating chaos whilst interfering with the 'haphazard' Portuguese police investigation and causing bad feeling across the water.

Somewhere there are strict guidelines as to the distribution of CEOP manuals. If there weren't anyone could have access to them. So where does it say in the guidelines that the parents of a missing child (and Jim is quoted as saying look at the parents first) should have access to CEOP manuals which are presumably for CEOP/Police use?

Just an observation.

by guest12345 30.09.15 11:08

aquila wrote:You have to ask yourself the very serious question as to the guidelines regarding the use and distribution of these CEOP manuals.
Neither you or I know these guidelines.
Perhaps Mr Gamble can fill the public in on this - or perhaps he'll choose not to and claim everyone was trying to be helpful and the various UK agencies were almost competing with each other (see Daily Telegraph article) and creating chaos whilst interfering with the 'haphazard' Portuguese police investigation and causing bad feeling across the water.
I suspect someone would've got a talking to for either mistakenly leaving them there, giving them to the family after pressure from the pair, or letting them get 'acquired' by Gerry without knowing (we can only speculate as to which of those is the truth)

Somewhere there are strict guidelines as to the distribution of CEOP manuals. If there weren't anyone could have access to them.
I doubt they are handed out as standard practice So where does it say in the guidelines that the parents of a missing child (and Jim is quoted as saying look at the parents first) should have access to CEOP manuals which are presumably for CEOP/Police use?
It would not say that anywhere. See above for options of how they got their hands on them

Just an observation.

Kate and Gerry McCann: The books found in their apartment and the search by British sniffer dogs, Eddie and Keela

Kate and Gerry McCann: The books found in their apartment and the search by British sniffer dogs, Eddie and Keela

re the sniffer dogs

Re: Kate and Gerry McCann: The books found in their apartment and the search by British sniffer dogs, Eddie and Keela

Brian Edward Healy

Re: Kate and Gerry McCann: The books found in their apartment and the search by British sniffer dogs, Eddie and Keela

Re: Kate and Gerry McCann: The books found in their apartment and the search by British sniffer dogs, Eddie and Keela

McCanns are everywhere

Re: Kate and Gerry McCann: The books found in their apartment and the search by British sniffer dogs, Eddie and Keela

Re: Kate and Gerry McCann: The books found in their apartment and the search by British sniffer dogs, Eddie and Keela

Re: Kate and Gerry McCann: The books found in their apartment and the search by British sniffer dogs, Eddie and Keela

sniffer dogs & trail to car park ???

Re: Kate and Gerry McCann: The books found in their apartment and the search by British sniffer dogs, Eddie and Keela

Re: Kate and Gerry McCann: The books found in their apartment and the search by British sniffer dogs, Eddie and Keela

Keela

The books found in Apt 5a

Re: Kate and Gerry McCann: The books found in their apartment and the search by British sniffer dogs, Eddie and Keela

Re: Kate and Gerry McCann: The books found in their apartment and the search by British sniffer dogs, Eddie and Keela

Sniffer dogs

Re: Kate and Gerry McCann: The books found in their apartment and the search by British sniffer dogs, Eddie and Keela

Re: Kate and Gerry McCann: The books found in their apartment and the search by British sniffer dogs, Eddie and Keela

Re: Kate and Gerry McCann: The books found in their apartment and the search by British sniffer dogs, Eddie and Keela

Re: Kate and Gerry McCann: The books found in their apartment and the search by British sniffer dogs, Eddie and Keela

Re: Kate and Gerry McCann: The books found in their apartment and the search by British sniffer dogs, Eddie and Keela

Re: Kate and Gerry McCann: The books found in their apartment and the search by British sniffer dogs, Eddie and Keela

Re: Kate and Gerry McCann: The books found in their apartment and the search by British sniffer dogs, Eddie and Keela

Re: Kate and Gerry McCann: The books found in their apartment and the search by British sniffer dogs, Eddie and Keela

Re: Kate and Gerry McCann: The books found in their apartment and the search by British sniffer dogs, Eddie and Keela

Re: Kate and Gerry McCann: The books found in their apartment and the search by British sniffer dogs, Eddie and Keela

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