Mediums in PDL - Until the truth

by Ayniia 01.06.13 23:05

This clip is from a Portuguese show called "Até à verdade" ("Until the truth") that analyses criminal cases with the help of two mediums [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] & [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I took the Portuguese interview starting/end which is not with them, Is the host (Rita) talking with Moita Flores (a former PJ inspector ), just left the mediums in PDL part.The [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Mediums in PDL:

You may believe or not believe in mediums .
As it's not an exact science I'll can only state that the following is just MY OPINION about it:

I believe in people with "a special telephone to the beyond" words from Hernâni Carvalho (often talks about criminal cases in Portuguese along with GA in tv shows).
He said those words once talking about the Mccann case where GA said that sometime shortly the disappearance when he was in charge it was talked about maybe asking help from the FBI. He said that actually they decided not to, but that the FBI said that if it was called the first thing they'd do would be "shipping" one of their top mediums to PDL. (not the ones in the video)
Back on topic I find it interesting what they say about the bathroom, golf course , sewer pipes and how they end on top of Rocha Negra.

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by lj 02.06.13 3:04

After having been witness to various inexplicable events with mediums I became a believer, although still very skeptic. This couple really does not pass muster for me. Water , golf course, duh you're in the Algarve! And the Rocha Negra is such a attention demanding place, of course they go there.

Hearing them talk about the perpetrator shows how well they were primed before their tour.

Nop, nothing of interest here.

by **tigger** 02.06.13 8:03

lj wrote:After having been witness to various inexplicable events with mediums I became a believer, although still very skeptic. This couple really does not pass muster for me. Water , golf course, duh you're in the Algarve! And the Rocha Negra is such a attention demanding place, of course they go there.

Hearing them talk about the perpetrator shows how well they were primed before their tour.

Nop, nothing of interest here.

Yes, I couldn't see what was so amazing about this couple. They wandered around 5a, had a choice of four golf courses I believe and and the much publicised Rocha Negra.
Burying a body on a golf course as has been suggested before strikes me as a very risky thing to do. The one thing about the golf courses though is how neither the word nor the facilities were ever mentioned by TM. Gerry had made golfing trips to Portugal (it's in the book) and was a keen golfer. Yet it's never mentioned, only tennis, tennis is mentioned an awful lot. Not golf. How's that backhand going then? winkwink

Golf courses have function rooms, bars, restaurants and so on. Murat met with a business acquaintance at a golf club near PdL almost as soon as he arrived.

Incidentally Gerry's golf clubs were stolen from his car some time before PdL. There's a record from the Leicester police.

by dentdelion 02.06.13 10:41

That did not look like the actual apartment 5a. Apart from full makeover of decor etc, the bathroom was on wrong side and I could not see the side window overlooking the road where the blood splatter etc and cadaver scent picked up. The pair did not seem to have done much prep work on the case for example having to ask about a creche and about golf course location. Interesting remark was made of head injury and use of medication.

by Ayniia 03.06.13 14:23

dentdelion wrote:That did not look like the actual apartment 5a. Apart from full makeover of decor etc, the bathroom was on wrong side and I could not see the side window overlooking the road where the blood splatter etc and cadaver scent picked up. The pair did not seem to have done much prep work on the case for example having to ask about a creche and about golf course location. Interesting remark was made of head injury and use of medication.

I think I heard somewhere that they were in 5A but were not allowed to film there. In another show with them about Joana Cipriano case and they were able to "pick her vibes "very well in the street.
With the files out there and the press, they could know all they said about water pipes and the golf course, the creche... But the talk about the head injury being washed, reminds me about the towel in the "myth " bag together with the fleece and denim pants. I wonder who was the one to bath her... But IMO the mediums surely had "the balls " to dare talking about the head injury and the bath. Oh yeah and Madeleine was happy in the creche because sadly she spent few time with her family.

by worriedmum 03.06.13 15:36

What I don't understand is how the use of mediums,(telling Kate to look for a boat at the marina IIRC), dreams of a 'grey slab', Kate telling her mother that Madeleine 'visited her', the disputed 'Rocha Negra' dream- how does this marry with the McCanns insistence that Madeleine has 'come to no harm'!

by **Tony Bennett** 03.06.13 16:51

Ayniia wrote:You may believe or not believe in mediums. As it's not an exact science I'll can only state that the following is just MY OPINION about it: I believe in people with "a special telephone to the beyond"...

: Let's be very very clear about mediums and missing Madeleine McCann.

It was reported that over 250 mediums contacted the Portuguese police saying they thought they knew what might have happened to Madeleine McCann.

I suspect there were hundreds more. Many contacted the McCanns direct. In my time with The Madeleine Foundation, some cme to us.

Now here's the really important bit...

...none of these mediums gave the same or even similar account of what might have happened to Madeleine as any of the others.

So...

...hundreds of mediums...

...every one of them saying something different - not even two with the same story.

This is proof, if proof were ever needed, that, to put it mildly, this is not only something that is 'not an exact science', but merely people holding forth with their impressions, ideas and imaginations as being the truth.

A huge amount of police time, in this case and many others, has been wasted following the hunches of mediums...

by **PeterMac** 03.06.13 17:57

A huge amount of police time, in this case and many others, has been wasted following the hunches of mediums...

Quite so. But if just one turns out, by pure chance, to be correct, as one must if you have enough of them all guessing away, like monkeys on typewriters, that will be "evidence" of their abilities. A bit like "my miraculous escape from the burning plane - which killed everyone else on board . . ."
Also a bit like SY saying that she is either alive, or dead. One of those propositions MUST be correct.

That was emphatically NOT 5A
There are two golf courses within a very short distance, one just at the top of Rocha Negra, the other in the "Lawless Hinterland". As you say, not very good preparation.
Green thing centre right. Rocha Negra is the black thing sticking out into the sea bottom centre. The trig point is the white patch to the north of RN.
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Brown wriggly thing top left
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by Ayniia 03.06.13 18:21

I can't even express how honored I feel to have Mr Tony answering me. Thank you!
I understand what you mean but IMO and I always say this to people regarding mediums / psychics which is there's two types of them - the ones that ask money and publicity and the ones that don't. Then there's always Marcos Aragao Correia big grin

Now back on subject, I don't believe in people saying that the body is here or there or that they know exactly what happened. People knowing if someone's missing and alive or dead, it's easier. And again IMO people with any ability like that, have respect and sometimes fear for the "gift " they have.
Now, people with true "medium powers "work with police forces all over the world. And people who don't work with them but have some kind of knowledge that can help, will contact the police. Not the Mcs or the press. If they have true knowledge of something that can help the police investigation ( not just this case but any ) they will prove that and the LE will take them seriously depending on the information they give.
Thinking about GA words about the FBI medium, if it had come here in the beginning and said: she's no longer with us " maybe it would have shifted the investigation very fast or at least widened it to other possibilities...

by **tigger** 03.06.13 18:35

From the report of Ricardo Paiva to Conçalo Amaral - 3rd September 2007:
[..]
With regard to Gerald McCann, he constantly insisted in giving the undersigned letters and emails that he was receiving, mostly from psychics and mediums, whom he had selected and which mainly contained information without much credibility about the possible whereabouts of Madeleine and her presumed abductor. [..]

It's clear that psychics were very dear to the hearts of the McCanns. I rather like the phrase 'whom he had selected'.
What a pity that couldn't be used at your trial Tony, the father of the missing child 'selects' psychic messages - we can therefore assume that those messages not selected were never 'weeded out' by an expert police officer, but were probably thrown out.

Why would Gerry select messages from psychics rather than from the many others they must have received? Should not all messages have gone to the police for assessment?

Why also did Mitchell gloatingly state in April 2012( in the Panorama documentary I believe) that there were hundreds of psychics leads still to follow up?

Why were two psychics from Swansea and Cardiff invited to PdL almost immediately after 3/5? One of them had a vision of a boat and gave the name?

The public were told in no uncertain terms not to send anything to the McCanns but to the nearest police station, excepting holiday snaps which were to be sent to a special website. Another kind of 'weeding'? If they were so keen on mediums I would expect them to submit the photographs to them so they could detect the abductor.

As it happens I think some people to have the gift but it cannot be switched off and on at will. Anyone who performs for the camera is a fake imo.
Statistically, the number of cancellations on a flight or boat trip which ends in disaster is higher than average. There are things we can't measure yet but new technology now uses the power of thought and concentration to work electronic gadgets.

by **Tony Bennett** 03.06.13 19:28

PeterMac wrote:
A huge amount of police time, in this case and many others, has been wasted following the hunches of mediums...
Quite so. But if just one turns out, by pure chance, to be correct, as one must if you have enough of them all guessing away, like monkeys on typewriters, that will be "evidence" of their abilities. A bit like "my miraculous escape from the burning plane - which killed everyone else on board . . ."
Also a bit like SY saying that she is either alive, or dead. One of those propositions MUST be correct.

That was emphatically NOT 5A.
There are two golf courses within a very short distance, one just at the top of Rocha Negra, the other in the "Lawless Hinterland". Green thing centre right. Rocha Negra is the black thing sticking out into the sea bottom centre. The trig point is the white patch to the north of RN.
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Brown wriggly thing top left
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As a matter of interest, which was the Golf Course that Robert Murat visited on the afternoon on Thursday, 3 May, 2007, which he lied about at his first police interview on 14 May but then admitted to at a subsequent interview on 11 July (the one where the police confronted him with the mobile phone antennae records of where he ACTUALLY was, instead of where he SAID he was)? Here are the 16 lies Murat told at his first interview, all exposed when he completely changed his story about his movements on 1, 2, 3 and 4 May

1. Remembers that on 1 May he tried to contact Jorge da Silva.

2. Remembers that on 2 May he didn’t leave home at 10.30am but instead had a meeting with Sergei Malinka at the Batista Supermarket.

3. He had in fact taken Michaela and Malinka back to his mother’s house in Praia da Luz for a further discussion, something he’d omitted to tell the police in the first interview.

4. He now remembered visiting his bank and paying in 287.51 euros.

5. He now remembered he’d called at the home of Francisco Pagarete, his lawyer, that morning.

6. He now remembers that he had met Francisco Pagarete that afternoon.

7. He now remembers that another of Jorge’s sons was present at their meeting in the café in the afternoon.

8. The meeting in the café went on much longer than he had said previously.

9. He thinks that Michaela Walczuk’s husband Luis Antonio may not have been present at Michaela’s house that evening, contrary to what he had previously said.

10. On 3 May, he had not woken at 9.00am as previously stated, but at 8.00am.

11. He had not driven to Michaela’s house that morning after 10.00am as previously stated; instead he had left home at 8.45am for a 9.30am meeting with the owner of the business tourist complex called ‘Gold Bunker’ in the Espiche district and her father-in-law.

12. He now remembered that he and Michaela had visited two apartments for about 30 minutes, probably on the afternoon of 3 May.

13. He and Michaela had lunch with the owner of the ‘Gold Bunker’ complex and her father-in-law, a fact he had not disclosed to police before, and Michaela's daughter C_______ was not with them that day, contrary to his previous story.

14. They went to the Palmares Golf Club in the afternoon, another fact that Murat had failed to disclose to the police when previously interviewed.

15. He now admitted to making two telephone calls, to Sergei Malinka and Michaela, at 11.39pm and 11.40pm that night.

16. He previously said he had woken at 9.00am on Friday 4 May. He now admitted he had telephoned Michaela at 8.27am and must have got up earlier.