Questions for Moxie

JB2025 wrote:@moxie.blacksnith are you taking questions for possible follow-up interview(s)?

moxie.blacksmith wrote:

JB2025 wrote:@moxie.blacksnith are you taking questions for possible follow-up interview(s)?

Yes. 

Longer answer: 
Its likely going to be through vetting and not every question will make it, in example if there is repetition, if it shows there was no effort made, if something´s not safe enough, or what have you (I need more thinking time with this still, I think practical world will show more reasons to throw in some boundaries, and you know who has the final say on whats OK of course). 

Other than that I would perceive it as much welcomed shared mental effort. I am just one person and a pile of thinking gears on this puzzle is a valuable resource to draw from! 

Maybe a new thread for this? 

Someone asked me about this in youtube as well. There is still time,  I have half+ Brick to go and I am browsing through other material as well, so no need to rush.  (...unless reasons to rush appear lol )

JB2025 wrote:@moxie.blacksmith totally understand the need to vet questions for repetition and/or Legal etc. Great idea to set-up a new thread for this.Also, I would recommend finishing the Brick by reading the e-book in audio I posted directions on how to do this so I will dig it out for you. It is just so easy to go back over interesting points by having it read out to you whilst you clean the kitchen etc. Joke aside perhaps Jill Havern might set up a new  thread for Moxie Questions.

JB2025 wrote:@Jill Havern are you able to set up a thread for Moxie Questions? Would that be a possibility?

Thank you! Yes, leave questions in to this thread  :)  I will also ask for questions in youtube

(Thanks for collecting questions for Bernt, Moxie! This is my second question, the other one I posted yesterday on your YouTube channel)

I just finished reading Bernt Stellander's book. His timeline makes a lot of sense to me. He has shown clearly how the Tapas9 statements point towards this timeline. But still there is doubt for me that Maddie had also been removed from the apartment that night because of the video "Eddie's secret" by MIchael Scharrenberg.

In his video three recognised specialists say that cadaver scent can only be recognised by a cadaver dog after 3 months if a dead body had been laying in a spot for longer than just a few hours. 

If Maddie died shortly before midnight on May 2nd and was removed from the apartment only a few hours later - these experts must be wrong. Or what are your thoughts on this, Bernt?

............................................................

Adela Morris (Founder and CEO of the Instiutte for Canine Forensics California, USA):
"I find it difficult to believe that a body stayed in a location for just a few hours and yet created such a strong reidue which a dog is able to detect three months later. I'm not buying that!"
 "If a dog ignores a stay command and reacts so strongly to a cadaver scent residue, it means that the body must have been in that spot for several days if not longer."

............................................................

Dennis Janus (Dutch National Police):
"The body doesn't leave a strong scent in just a few hours. The decomposition process is fully activated some 24 hours after the time of death, but in the early stages it is a slow process."
"I don't know exactly how long that would take, but you haveo think in days and not in hours."

............................................................

Esther van Neerbos (Founder and CEO "Signi Search Dogs" in the Netherlands)
"A decomposing body doesn't leave a strong scent in just a few hours. A post mortem interval of 2,5 to 3 hours must be maintained before the dog can smell the odour of a decomposing body." (when it is still present)
"It does take some time, I'm not sure how long exactly, but in any case considerably longer than just a few hours, that I am sure of." (for a dog to detect the former presence of a cadaver after 3 months)

............................................................

Source:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5RXsR5wnUI

myrthie wrote:(Thanks for collecting questions for Bernt, Moxie! This is my second question, the other one I posted yesterday on your YouTube channel)

I just finished reading Bernt Stellander's book. His timeline makes a lot of sense to me. He has shown clearly how the Tapas9 statements point towards this timeline. But still there is doubt for me that Maddie had also been removed from the apartment that night because of the video "Eddie's secret" by MIchael Scharrenberg.

In his video three recognised specialists say that cadaver scent can only be recognised by a cadaver dog after 3 months if a dead body had been laying in a spot for longer than just a few hours. 

If Maddie died shortly before midnight on May 2nd and was removed from the apartment only a few hours later - these experts must be wrong. Or what are your thoughts on this, Bernt?

............................................................

Adela Morris (Founder and CEO of the Instiutte for Canine Forensics California, USA):
"I find it difficult to believe that a body stayed in a location for just a few hours and yet created such a strong reidue which a dog is able to detect three months later. I'm not buying that!"
 "If a dog ignores a stay command and reacts so strongly to a cadaver scent residue, it means that the body must have been in that spot for several days if not longer."

............................................................

Dennis Janus (Dutch National Police):
"The body doesn't leave a strong scent in just a few hours. The decomposition process is fully activated some 24 hours after the time of death, but in the early stages it is a slow process."
"I don't know exactly how long that would take, but you haveo think in days and not in hours."

............................................................

Esther van Neerbos (Founder and CEO "Signi Search Dogs" in the Netherlands)
"A decomposing body doesn't leave a strong scent in just a few hours. A post mortem interval of 2,5 to 3 hours must be maintained before the dog can smell the odour of a decomposing body." (when it is still present)
"It does take some time, I'm not sure how long exactly, but in any case considerably longer than just a few hours, that I am sure of." (for a dog to detect the former presence of a cadaver after 3 months)

............................................................

Source:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5RXsR5wnUI

Hey, you are here as well! Hello :)

I wonder if I get a nerd point here, this topic was touched in the first James English interview - cadaver scent developing in the blood itself, the blood was left uncleaned for the night, and blood under floor tiles was there. Apparently for children the blood has higher amount of some sort of aminoacid and the scent would develop in it?
I am pulling this from my memory because I did not time stamp that part of the interview and its somewhere within those 3 hours... I think somewhere in the middle... When the JE2 is up I will just time stamp everything on the first watching round..

Hey ,
I am referring to the cadaver alert by Eddie in the bedroom, not the blood/cadaver alerts. Maybe Maddie died earlier that evening.

... earlier that evening but after the parents left for dinner.

Justice for Maddie wrote:

myrthie wrote:... earlier that evening but after the parents left for dinner.

Do you think that Gerry found her dead at 9 PM and reacted that fast (cleaning the apartment,removing the body etc.). No way.

Sounds like you are talking about May 3rd. I am talking about about May 2nd when they came back just before midnight - Bernt's timeline.

Or Gerry was watching football in the apartment while Maddie was lying dead behind the sofa. Hard to Imagine.

Nah, even Gerry isn't that macabre. But the accident/death could have happened while he was watching Football and he didn't have an eye on the children.

That's what I meant. Gerry did not visually check on the children and he didn't notice Madeleine behind the sofa.

Between which hours is GM thought to have been watching football on the 2nd May, please.

myrthie wrote:
Adela Morris (Founder and CEO of the Instiutte for Canine Forensics California, USA):
"I find it difficult to believe that a body stayed in a location for just a few hours and yet created such a strong reidue which a dog is able to detect three months later. I'm not buying that!"
 "If a dog ignores a stay command and reacts so strongly to a cadaver scent residue, it means that the body must have been in that spot for several days if not longer."

............................................................

Dennis Janus (Dutch National Police):
"The body doesn't leave a strong scent in just a few hours. The decomposition process is fully activated some 24 hours after the time of death, but in the early stages it is a slow process."
"I don't know exactly how long that would take, but you haveo think in days and not in hours."

............................................................

Esther van Neerbos (Founder and CEO "Signi Search Dogs" in the Netherlands)
"A decomposing body doesn't leave a strong scent in just a few hours. A post mortem interval of 2,5 to 3 hours must be maintained before the dog can smell the odour of a decomposing body." (when it is still present)
"It does take some time, I'm not sure how long exactly, but in any case considerably longer than just a few hours, that I am sure of." (for a dog to detect the former presence of a cadaver after 3 months)

............................................................

Source:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5RXsR5wnUI

It was Adela's projects and experiences that led me to believe that M had not seen the sun rise on 3 May 2007.

https://www.csst.org/residual_scent.html

It's incredible that the PJ, who in 2007 claimed ignoring the capabilities of cadaver dogs, didn't try to get informations about residual scent (the one that persists in an area after the original source is no longer present). For how long does it last until the point that it either cannot be sensed or cannot be differentiated. What is the minimum post mortem time interval for which a well trained dog can perceive the residual death scent overwhelming that of live scent.

Justice for Maddie wrote:

AnneCGuedes wrote:It's incredible that the PJ, who in 2007 claimed ignoring the capabilities of cadaver dogs, didn't try to get informations about residual scent (the one that persists in an area after the original source is no longer present). For how long does it last until the point that it either cannot be sensed or cannot be differentiated. What is the minimum post mortem time interval for which a well trained dog can perceive the residual death scent overwhelming that of live scent.

2-3 hours (post #3)

PMI ?
"A post mortem interval of 2,5 to 3 hours must be maintained before the dog can smell the odour of a decomposing body." (when it is still present) 
Somebody dies, around 150/180' after death a dog's nose is capable to discriminate between live and dead scent and, if the dog is trained, to alert to death scent.
The case of the residual scent is completely different.
What if the body has been removed after PMI of 1, 2, 3, n hours ? And for how long does the scent remains if the place has been occupied by many people producing a lot of draughts ?
These are the questions Adela M tried to answer experimenting with dogs.

"This changes everything if it was M's scent that Eddie alerted to in the wardrobe then only one conclusion is possible M did not die on the day of her disappearance she died days earlier. There can be no doubt about that simply because the rules of decomposition cannot be interpreted differently."

If some of you are going to use this thread for discussions and/or debates, it will add to my workload.

Discussion and debate areas already exist on this forum.

This is not what I am offering an opportunity for. 

If this thread won´t work out, I will ask to have thread closed and accept questions in private messages instead.

I am guessing its more interesting for everyone if we can keep the thread open - and more helpful for funneling thoughts and questions, since you can see what was already asked, or maybe something someone else said sparks up some curiosity and ideas in you, and you can built on it.

If its for my eyes only I can sort out notifications faster but it will be more boring that way.

Justice for Maddie wrote:

AnneCGuedes wrote:"This changes everything if it was M's scent that Eddie alerted to in the wardrobe then only one conclusion is possible M did not die on the day of her disappearance she died days earlier. There can be no doubt about that simply because the rules of decomposition cannot be interpreted differently."

Yes, there is a possibility that she died earlier (Sunday/Monday). But who did Mrs. Fenn hear on Tuesday then?

Kate Healey McCann stressed in interviews and her bewk that Maddie cried for 'daddy' linking it to the hearing of cries by Mrs Fenn. She also stressed Maddy was never called that, always Madeleine.

We now know that Kate lies when her mouth moves and subtly changed 'Maddy' to 'daddy', imprinting this into the abduction myth.

They called their child Maddy. Mrs Fenn probably heard Kate cry and wail, as she held her dead child wearing her checked trousers. Eddy also detected cadaver odour on her trousers

Cammerigal wrote:Kate Healey McCann stressed in interviews and her bewk that Maddie cried for 'daddy' linking it to the hearing of cries by Mrs Fenn. She also stressed Maddy was never called that, always Madeleine.

Where in her book ?

By Bernt´s request, I have opened a new thread. You can leave this one alone or continue making mess in here, it does not make a difference.

And for existing real thoughts and questions, they have been noted :) No need to repeat,  all good.