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Statements from the Drs Gaspar were withheld from the Portuguese Police by Leicestershire Police until Gonçalo Amaral was removed from the case. Mm11

Statements from the Drs Gaspar were withheld from the Portuguese Police by Leicestershire Police until Gonçalo Amaral was removed from the case. Regist10
The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
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Statements from the Drs Gaspar were withheld from the Portuguese Police by Leicestershire Police until Gonçalo Amaral was removed from the case. Mm11

Statements from the Drs Gaspar were withheld from the Portuguese Police by Leicestershire Police until Gonçalo Amaral was removed from the case. Regist10

Statements from the Drs Gaspar were withheld from the Portuguese Police by Leicestershire Police until Gonçalo Amaral was removed from the case.

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Statements from the Drs Gaspar were withheld from the Portuguese Police by Leicestershire Police until Gonçalo Amaral was removed from the case. Empty Statements from the Drs Gaspar were withheld from the Portuguese Police by Leicestershire Police until Gonçalo Amaral was removed from the case.

Post by sharonl 15.03.21 20:45

The Drs Gaspar made their statement to Leicestershire police on 16th May 2007.  Why did they withhold it from the Portuguese Police until 24th October 2007, shortly after Goncalo Amaral was removed from the case?

The Gaspar Statements: Cover Letter from Leicestershire Police, 24 Oct 2007 - Joana Morais (joana-morais.blogspot.com) 

[size=35]The Gaspar Statements: Cover Letter from Leicestershire Police, 24 Oct 2007
by astro 10 years ago[/size]



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From: DC 1756 Mike Marshall

Dept.: Leicestershire Police, Phone nr. 0116 2484409

To: Ricardo Paiva

Ref.: David Payne

Date: October 24, 2007



Ricardo,


Please find enclosed Arul and Katherina Gaspar’s statements, as requested.


I have carefully read the written questionnaire that was handed over by David Payne, but I was unable to extract any other information apart from what is already known.

He states that he saw Madeleine, for the last time, at 5 pm on the 3rd of May, 2007, in the McCanns’ apartment. Kate and Gerry were equally present then. He did not state the reason why he was in the apartment at that time, or what they were doing. He does not state for how long he stayed there, either.

When he was asked with who he was in the evening of the 3rd of May, he states that he has already given that information to the police and that he cannot remember if he was aware of anyone else.

He cannot recall what he was wearing that afternoon.

In fact, he participated in the search, but for most of the time, he was alone. Sometimes he was accompanied by Matthew Oldfield.

He did not participate in the searches that took place on the 4th of May, because he spent most of that day at the police station.

To many of the questions there is no full reply, stating merely and he has already supplied the Portuguese police with the information / statements.


I have again examined Fiona Payne’s information. In her statement, she says that she went to the McCanns’ apartment at around 7 pm on the 3rd of May, along with Kate. She states that the husband arrived 10 minutes later; it is unclear what husband she is referring to, whether it’s Gerry or her own husband.

Her replies to the written questionnaire are vague, as she replies to the questions saying “according to my statement” or using a similar expression.



in: Processo 201/07.0 GALGS, pages 3909 and 3910 (Volume XIII)
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Post by Silentscope 16.03.21 9:41

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
He cannot recall what he was wearing that afternoon.


From Yvonne Martin’s statements:


David Payne, who was with them, wore a dark polo, blue or black in colour, cream coloured long trousers, of linen or cotton material, and dark shoes (sandal/slipper type with a back buckle/catch). In her opinion, this clothing fits perfectly with what the Police described the man (carrying the child) to be wearing at the time. All these coincidences made the deponent think that the parents and their friends could be involved in the disappearance of the child. 
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Post by Verdi 16.03.21 11:48

The Gaspar statements are an enigma in deed, for starters such information shouldn't be in the public domain as it concerns allegations of child sexual exploitation.  

In essence, the allegations were in no way connected to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.  Given the seriousness of the allegation it raises the question why the Gaspars (the missus in particular) didn't report the holiday incident at the time, when they returned home.  Okay so there's no proof that the incident took place as reported but there isn't any proof to this day, although folk have taken it as fact - based only on the words of the witnesses, that differ considerably.

That aside, as member crusader very recently pointed out, Paiva knew of the existence of the Gaspar statements, he requested them from the UK police.

In my view, the most likely explanation..

a) the statements were contradictory and not verified by any independent witness
b)  the statements were not relevant to or connected with the Portuguese investigation
c)  the statements make serious allegations of child abuse which in normal circumstances would be classified information


To: Ricard Paiva
From: DC 1756 Mike MARSHALL
Ref: David Payne
Date: October 24, 2007

Leicester Police Constabulary

Ricardo,

As requested, appended are the statements of Arul and Katherina Gaspar.

"I read carefully the written document/questionnaire provided by David Payne."


The above would indicate that David Payne was interviewed with reference to the Gaspar allegation but again, any recorded documentation would be classified given the nature of the allegation.  

It would also tie in with David Payne's extraordinary comment recorded during his rogatory interview in April 2008..

1485 "Is there anything that you consider pertinent or relevant to establish the material truth''

Reply "Err the, there are a few things but I don't think this is the right forum for bringing those up.'

Whatever, those witness statements in the name of Gaspar should never have been released into the public domain!

An error of judgment or a whopping great blooper?

bignono

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Post by Silentscope 16.03.21 13:32

Just three days later, after the Gaspar statements were in the Public domain, Dr G McCann made a visit to Leicestershire Police, where he met with one Clarence Mitchell, who soon took over the PR role.

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I met Gerry at the end of May 2007 when he returned to the UK after his daughter's disappearance. It was a circumstantial meeting at Leicestershire Police station. At the time I was working as part of the Consular Assistance Group, representing the foreigners department. I as asked to return to Portugal with Mr McCann, where I met his wife. Later I became the McCann family's representative and I developed a good personal and professional relationship with them. 


Just a ‘coincidence’? 
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Post by Verdi 16.03.21 15:30

Just three days later, after the Gaspar statements were in the Public domain, Dr G McCann made a visit to Leicestershire Police, where he met with one Clarence Mitchell, who soon took over the PR role.

The Gaspar statements were not released into the public domain until 4th August 2008, in accordance with Portuguese law at the time, after the PJ investigation was archived.

Clarence Mitchell was seconded to Portugal by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office in May 2007.

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Post by Verdi 16.03.21 16:04

The Gaspars were friends of the McCanns, particularly between the husband Savio and Kate McCann né Healy, the Gaspars attended the McCanns wedding, by invitiation.

I remember that in 2002 or 2003, Savio and I spent a weekend with Gerry and Kate in Devon. We would stay in contact with each other by telephone.

No mention of inapprproate behaviour until that one occasion in September 2005 whilst holidaying in Majorca. According to Mrs Gaspar, there was another couple in the holiday group - she was sure about their names, less that two years later although they group shared a house/villa. No word recorded from them regarding the alleged incident

Husband Gaspar was very vague about the incident that allegedly happened in Majorca, whereas wife Gaspar goes into great detail. Even then the couple didn't immediately turn their backs on the Payne/McCanns.

Another strange thing, despite all the attention this couple have attracted, there has never been any indication of what they look like, where they live - nor any other detail about them.

Scrutinizing the detail and disregarding anyone's desire to read something salacious about the McCanns and/or Paynes, taking into consideration the delay between the incident (September 2005) and the Gaspars trip to a police station to report the alleged incident in May 2007, I can't help but feel Mrs Katherina Gaspar was harbouring a grievance - possibly against David Payne for some reaon?

Early May 2007 no one had ever heard of the McCanns or any of their friends, aside from their own circle.

The Gaspars walk in off the street to report an alleged incident that occured nigh on two years previous, they think it might of interest to the Portugues police. At that stage the media was full of missing child/abduction stories, no one knew what was going on - except perhaps Jon clarke of the Olive Press. A giant leap of logic on behalf of Messrs Gaspar to make a possible association between such diverse events and so soon after the reported disappearance.

The police are not stupid, they've got enough experience to recognise a potential story teller. I seriously doubt they took the Gaspar statements very seriously at the time. Even if they had it would be an internal matter, if there was any reason for particular concern and they, the police, had started to build a case, the nature of the allegation would surely be referred to a specialist force.

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Post by Silentscope 16.03.21 18:25

Dr Arul Gaspar is described as being an Indian / British Man who speaks in Punjabi / Urdu, he is around 1.78m tall, and of Sporty / Fit build with broad shoulders. No Turban or Beard. Dark hair.


(In 2005)
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Post by Verdi 17.03.21 0:13

You miss the point - again!

I'm not remotely interested in the personal appearance of Gasper man or wife, with the aid of the internet it's not difficult to trace detail about someone with a professional profile.   The important thing is not to use that attainable information against an individual to fit a profile that you want to see - like dishing the dirt.

My point is, the Gaspars were not hounded by the media nor investigative journalists nor armchair detectives - unlike just about every other side-line that features in the long winded saga. Photographs of the couple have not been mediatised nor any aspect of their profile.

Even Martin Smith, allegedly a key witness, features prominently through media, mainstream and social, sources despite being named in the PJ investigative files. Not forgetting Julian Totman whose photograph was widely publicised after ex-DCI Andy Redwood's revelation.

But I digress.

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Post by Silentscope 17.03.21 9:50

Maybe the reason why those Statements were withheld had something to do with their profiles being kept so low?

As you said yourself, the U.K. Police must suspect  that something would not stack up if put under too close inspection. A giant leap of Logic, agreed. Why was it never confirmed or discounted what they had to report? 

I stand corrected on the ‘Public domain’ I believe that three days after those Statements WERE MADE, the coincidences started to happen.
I do not believe that Gerry bumped into Clarence by accident.

The questions how Ricardo Paiva, Gerry and Clarence APPARENTLY KNEW of their existence before they were made Public remains.

As far as I know the Gaspars either spoke to, or were approached by a European News outlet. Maybe that is who is responsible for the ’leak’?
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Post by Verdi 17.03.21 15:51

What coincidences started to happen three days after those statements WERE MADE?

What makes you presume Gerry McCann and Clarence Mitchell APPARENTLY KNEW of the Gaspar statements?

Sorry but the rest of your post I just don't understand.

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Post by Silentscope 17.03.21 17:29

Was it really just all coincidences or were they (GMcC, RP, CEM) all somehow made aware that the Gaspars had made reports on DP?

If as you rightly said, it was not in the Public domain at the time, how else would they have known about them? 


If it was leaked that the Gaspars had made Statements, then  by who and for what purpose?

If it was the Gaspars, who went running straight afterwards to ‘EURONEWS’ to make sure that everyone knew, I would ask them why? It seems there are no Judicial Secrecy laws in place, because as you said, DP could have been later proved innocent, and rightly sued them both.
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Post by Verdi 17.03.21 23:41

Geeez, give me strength - now what are you on about?

I asked you what coincidences and you reply with..

Was it really just all coincidences or were they (GMcC, RP, CEM) all somehow made aware that the Gaspars had made reports on DP?

Apart from the fact you didn't answer my question, what am I supposed to understand by GMcC, RP, CEM and DP?

I asked you what makes you presume Clarence Mitchell and Gerry McCann knew about about the Gaspar statements in May 2007, you didn't answer my question but replied thus..

If as you rightly said, it was not in the Public domain at the time, how else would they have known about them?

If it was leaked that the Gaspars had made Statements, then by who and for what purpose?

Why would you presume anything was leaked - what evidence do you have to substantiate your presumption?

Then you go on to say..

If it was the Gaspars, who went running straight afterwards to ‘EURONEWS’ to make sure that everyone knew, I would ask them why? It seems there are no Judicial Secrecy laws in place, because as you said, DP could have been later proved innocent, and rightly sued them both.

What are you talking about? I said no such thing about DP (David Payne?) being later proved innocent, and rightly suing them both.

Where is all this nonsense coming from, your source?

Second thoughts, don't even bother to answer this - life's too short.






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Post by Silentscope 18.03.21 8:39

Verdi wrote:
I can't help but feel Mrs Katherina Gaspar was harbouring a grievance - possibly against David Payne for some reaon?


Silentscope:


I cannot help but feel it was important to place the Group somewhere else in the first week of September 2005. Not where they really where. 
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Post by Verdi 18.03.21 11:24

Tell me Silentscope, are you being deliberately OBTUSE, or is it a natural defaut POSITION?

Whatever, I give up. It's like flogging a dead horse.

gOOD dAY howdy

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Post by Silentscope 18.03.21 14:36

I put it to the Forum that:

The Gaspars have never been checked out or have had it proved that they were even in Mallorca in the first week of September 2005. 

It is only assumed to be correct that their visit to the Island took place at that time.

I believe otherwise.
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Post by crusader 18.03.21 14:58

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I'm intrigued to know why the Gaspars would lie about a holiday they had with the McCann's and Paynes in September 2005.
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Post by Silentscope 18.03.21 15:45

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That unfortunately is an answer only they themselves can provide.
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Post by crusader 18.03.21 15:51

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] What reason do you have to think the holiday didn't happen at that time.
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Post by Silentscope 18.03.21 17:01

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - Eyewitness testimony from a Tourist from Germany.
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Post by crusader 18.03.21 17:08

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I haven't heard about that, care to elaborate?
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Post by Silentscope 18.03.21 17:30

Not until what is already reported can be confirmed by someone in Authority.

The Germans are unable to investigate or prosecute any Foreign National if the suspected or alleged crime happened outside of its Borders. The Police is responsible for British investigations, and the PJ is responsible for Portugal.

The Spanish Police are responsible for the Island of Mallorca.

I would respectfully suggest the PJ talk to them?
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Post by crusader 18.03.21 18:37

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If you are not prepared to elaborate, then it's a one way conversation'
You put it to the forum that you don't believe the Majorca holiday took place, but you don't give a reason why you don't believe this.
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Post by Silentscope 19.03.21 18:38

Why should we believe anything they tell us anyway my friend?

Accept nothing
Check everything 
Suspect everyone 
Trust no one

Or?
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Post by pdlsleuth1990 20.03.21 0:00

A few things struck me in the debate from the Gaspars statements. While both spouses statements are not consistent, this would seem to demonstrate that they are not made up. We know that David Payne and Gerry Mc Cann are alpha males and are the life and soul of the party (according to staff in Tapas bar). It might therefore have been difficult for the gaspars to call them out at the actual time, but they obviously felt that it was important enough to make a statement.

The alleged behaviour is evidence that the lads were being obnoxious or something more sinister. There is however little other definitive  evidence in relation to any potential abuse that I am aware off. 

One of the more interesting things from the recent posts, was the fact that David Payne stated that he visited the apartment at 5, which clashes with other statements that it was after 6. I was also unaware that Fiona Payne had visited the apartment at 6:30. I certainly don't remember reading anything in Kates book or on this forum regarding such a visit, but apologies if I missed something. 

Which brings us back to the fact that the timeline on that day has never been definitively established. One of the failings in the Portuguese police investigation IMO, was not identifying and resolving this discrepancies as early as possible in the investigation
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Post by Silentscope 21.03.21 14:03

From Gerrys statement:

As he was asked, he mentions that in January 2003 he went to Lanzarote, in Spain with Fiona and David Payne, where they spent a week's holiday not having any children at that time. At that time, despite having no children yet, Kate was 6 months pregnant with Madeleine, a pregnancy that resulted from IVF. Still in 2003, in September, he went to Umbria, in Italy, with his wife Kate, and the couples Matthew and Rachael, and Russell and Jane, for a weeks holiday where they attended Fiona and David's wedding. The deponent clarifies that the trip to Lanzarote was organised by himself as he had been there the previous year with Kate and they had enjoyed it very much, whereas the trip to Italy was arranged by Fiona and David, given that it was their wedding.

Absolutely no mention of Mallorca 2005 whatsoever 


Why? 
Why would everyone who was not on that holiday mention it in great detail in their statements, always confirming the exact weeks and who else was there. Even the Children on that holiday get a mention.

But it was not of any importance to Gerry, who never mentioned it?

I think that the Gaspers in a sudden ‘I wish we had said something earlier’ moment ran straight to Leicestershire Police to cover themselves. 

Why they were withheld from the PJ needs an explanation.
Silentscope
Silentscope

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