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New Video: BEFORE Thursday? (Pt 1) - Did OC staff see Maddie or a SHY T7 Child?

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New Video: BEFORE Thursday? (Pt 1) - Did OC staff see Maddie or a SHY T7 Child?

Post by HiDeHo on 03.06.18 23:27

NEW video: BEFORE Thursday? (Pt 1) - Did OC staff see Maddie or a SHY T7 Child?




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Re: New Video: BEFORE Thursday? (Pt 1) - Did OC staff see Maddie or a SHY T7 Child?

Post by joyce1938 on 04.06.18 8:08

theonly problem I find in this ,is ,it was early season ,and I have thought infact ,there were very few kids in the crech,so shouldn't be too difficult ,to knew who was who .joyce1938
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Re: New Video: BEFORE Thursday? (Pt 1) - Did OC staff see Maddie or a SHY T7 Child?

Post by skyrocket on 04.06.18 8:15

@HiDeHo - thanks, great job as always.
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Re: New Video: BEFORE Thursday? (Pt 1) - Did OC staff see Maddie or a SHY T7 Child?

Post by HiDeHo on 05.06.18 19:46

@joyce1938 wrote:theonly problem I find in this ,is ,it was early season ,and I have thought infact ,there were very few kids in the crech,so shouldn't be too difficult ,to knew who was who .joyce1938


The Lobster group of 7 children and the Sharks with likely the same amount, SHARED the same room..

That would be at many times possibly 14 children, and, as we know from regular nurseries and particularly holiday nurseries, it takes a while to learn names. The aim at the creche  was more likely to keep the children occupied as opposed to learn who they are individually and with so many little 'blonde' girls I am not sure that during the week many could be identified or remembered if missing...

These are three children that were in that room, similar age and similar hair colouring......


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Re: New Video: BEFORE Thursday? (Pt 1) - Did OC staff see Maddie or a SHY T7 Child?

Post by Verdi on 06.06.18 2:34

Catriona Baker witness statement - 6th May 2007

To our question, she specifies that she is responsible for a group of children, similar in age to the missing minor and that each supervisor has around seven children who stay with the same supervisor for the week.

When asked she states that she knows the McCann family since last Sunday, 29th April, 2007, when they enrolled their daughter in the “Minis” service. She replies that since that date and until Thursday, the 03rd of May, 2007, she was with Madeleine every day, but is unable to specify if she was present on the Sunday morning.
....................

So, no matter how many children are or aren't in the childcare area, each childminder has duty of care for 'around seven children' [sic].  That is a mix of boy and girl, so a mean average of 3 1/2 boys and 3 1/2 girls - not every morning nor afternoon session registers the full quota per carer.

Apart from Catriona Baker's frequent reference to Madeleine by name and connaissance of her parents, she has a notional 3 1/2 little girls to care for in any one session - give or take.  Even if, and that's a very big if, she wasn't aware of a child's name surely she would be able to recognize any one child from another?  Let's say for argument sake, Ms Baker had 4 little girls on average at each session throughout the week.  Four girls signed in or out but only three girls in the group .... or only two .... or only one ....  They were signed in, as management dictates, so where are they? 


If Ella is Madeleine and Jessica is Ella and Elizabeth is Jessica - that's three little girls and one missing little girl.  Does the carer, in this instance Catriona Baker, then think perhaps the long fair haired little boy is the missing little girl - if so, then where is the little boy?


It's a theory too far - I don't buy it. 


As for the introvert v. extrovert theory of mistaken identity, children can be very crafty when they want their way and they're very good at telling porkies.

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Re: New Video: BEFORE Thursday? (Pt 1) - Did OC staff see Maddie or a SHY T7 Child?

Post by HiDeHo on 06.06.18 4:35

I dont expect anyone to immediately (if ever) agree with my findings.

I am more than comfortable with what I have discovered and feel relatively sure that if something happened to Maddie earlier in the week then it explains how the McCanns were able to deceive everyone into thinking she was at the creche when she wasn't.

It is NOT a theory that I thought may be the answer and looked to make it 'fit'.. I studied all the information and it basically 'told' me.

I have tried many times to explain but although it would have been fairly simple in execution, I have felt like a  brick wall in understanding faces me every time.

I will... at some point be attempting a video, but like many topics, that are now basically accepted, it is taking years for most people to get their head around.

As I said... I am TOTALLY convinced of the way that everyone was deceived into thinking Maddie was at the creche but until I feel there are those that have the patience and motivation to understand I don't have the time or patience to keep repeating myself.

I WOULD however, like to hear  ideas  from others that believe something happened earlier and how it can be explained that Maddie was not at creche.

I dont believe I have seen ANY explanations yet... and as I have mentioned before.... for those that believe something happened earlier or she died earlier then there HAS to be an explanation about how everyone believed she was at the creche...

Where are the suggestions?

(PLEASE... I hope I dont hear accusations of all the nannies and staff were lying about that week.  They were young girls in the wrong place at the wrong time..  Maybe later on, one or two were 'reminded' about some things but I find any accusations of them lying, without any proof, unpalatable.)

I apologise, of course we have Kikos great research on the 'substitute' child, and though I prefer to not think another child was substituted, it is not that far away from the simple explanation of what I believe happened.
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Re: New Video: BEFORE Thursday? (Pt 1) - Did OC staff see Maddie or a SHY T7 Child?

Post by Lossincasa on 06.06.18 8:52

It's my first post here so hi everyone , but I've been on 'n off this case since the start. Can I ask how sure is everyone that the nannies were even remotely professional? Could it be that what they say or write after the fact is just them covering their arses? I always had this notion that everyone (the majority) in the resort was lying for their own reasons (or a reason), like kids getting caught doing smth naughty.

It would be great if there was a way they could be put to the test right away and after shown pics of the kids (all the kids), the nannies demonstrated their 'real' knowledge identifying the 'Ellas' from the 'Maddys'. Would they be able to tell them apart even so soon after the tragedy? I'm not convinced they are telling the truth about how they were spending their time with the kids or if they even glanced their way more than once during a session. Why would they? At least this is what I think. Btw these are some very thoughtful opinions from everyone :)
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Re: New Video: BEFORE Thursday? (Pt 1) - Did OC staff see Maddie or a SHY T7 Child?

Post by skyrocket on 06.06.18 9:34

@Lossincasa - welcome!




I completely agree with your points - particularly about there being a whole lot of lying going on after the 3 May (IMO, much more and much deeper than any of us have yet uncovered). 


In ref to Cat/the nannys in general being aware of exactly how many children they had in their care at any one time, the following detail from her statement regarding the boat outing is telling, IMO (has been discussed before):




The route taken was as follows:

1. The parents left the children at "Baby Club", Mark Warner, situated next to the principal reception and which is open 24 hours;
2. then Catriona, with Madeleine and 4 or 5 more children, walked toward the beach. The distance is about 100 metres but not in a straight line;





Also, we need to remember that there was a very high ratio of young (mainly blond) girls to boys.





Having said that, I believe that the creche sheets are almost entirely fabricated - false times; names attending; signatures.
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Re: New Video: BEFORE Thursday? (Pt 1) - Did OC staff see Maddie or a SHY T7 Child?

Post by Tony Bennett on 06.06.18 11:40

@Lossincasa wrote:It's my first post here so hi everyone , but I've been on 'n off this case since the start. Can I ask how sure is everyone that the nannies were even remotely professional? Could it be that what they say or write after the fact is just them covering their arses? I always had this notion that everyone (the majority) in the resort was lying for their own reasons (or a reason), like kids getting caught doing smth naughty.

It would be great if there was a way they could be put to the test right away and after shown pics of the kids (all the kids), the nannies demonstrated their 'real' knowledge identifying the 'Ellas' from the 'Maddys'. Would they be able to tell them apart even so soon after the tragedy? I'm not convinced they are telling the truth about how they were spending their time with the kids or if they even glanced their way more than once during a session. Why would they? At least this is what I think. Btw these are some very thoughtful opinions from everyone :)

@Lossincasa:   Welcome - and I agree with the thrust of your questions. I will answer with a few points.

I also put on record that I completely agree with @skyrocket's observations, namely:

"There [was] a whole lot of lying going on after the 3 May (IMO, much more and much deeper than any of us have yet uncovered)".

If we take a broad look at this case, we can be forgiven for thinking that quite a lot of people may have had much to hide:

* The McCanns
* Their Tapas 7 friends
* Some of the other people on that holiday
* The Mark Warner company which organised the holiday, and, yes...
* ...some of the nannies.

And beyond that, we could also be forgiven for thinking that the British state also had much to hide, if we look for example at Tony Blair rushing his top media man Clarence Mitchell to Portugal and at all the members of the British police, MI5, CEOP, Special Branch, Control Risks Group and other security personnel who rushed over to Praia da Luz in the first 9 days (see thread on CMOMM).

I can't unfortunately answer as to how many, if any, of the nannies, had any sort of professional training or qualifications. What we can say is that they were mostly very young - around 20 - and judging by photos that emerged of a previous set of nannies (including Cat Baker) dancing energetically in very light clothing it looks as though they were making sure that they had a very good time while they were over there.  

It can by no means excluded that one or more of the nannies may have had direct or close knowledge of what really happened to Madeleine on that holiday.

If one were to look at the nanny Cat Baker in particular, numerous questions arise.

For a start, there is good evidence that she already knew the McCanns before that holiday.

She was a Facebook friend a year or more previously with Chloe Corner, daughter of Jon Corner, godfather to Amelie - and the person who released the highly controversial 'Make-Up' Photo to the world in 2009.

Months after Madeleine was reported missing, Cat Baker spent several days at the McCanns' in Rothley at the very same time (November 2009) that the McCanns, the Tapas 7, their lawyers and PR representatives were attending a crucial meting at Rothley Court Manor hotel to discuss developments in the case.

Moreover, she was the sole nanny for Madeleine's crèche group of seven children, The Lobsters, and therefore (if there was a cover-up) ideally placed to lie about what happened to Madeleine and assist with what may have been a forgery of the crèche records.

And there IS evidence that she and another nanny, Charlotte Pennington, lied about a crucial event: namely the so-called 'High Tea' at which Madeleine was supposed to have attended at about 5pm on Thursday 3 May.

In fact, Lizzy Taylor (HideHo), the originator of this thread, has already done a comprehensive analysis* of all the multiple contradictions about this alleged event, showing that that the accounts of Kate McCann, Gerry McCann and Cat Baker about what is supposed to have happened at the high tea reveal innumerable serious discrepancies.

We simply cannot rule out either the possibility that one or more of the nannies was deliberately lying (and we have evidence to  support this) or else that they were 'leaned on' to fabricate some of their evidence.   


* LINK: "High Tea Discrepancies" >

http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/Images-for-Twitter/High-Tea-Discrepancies-1-946668.html

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Re: New Video: BEFORE Thursday? (Pt 1) - Did OC staff see Maddie or a SHY T7 Child?

Post by Lossincasa on 06.06.18 12:27

Thank you for your answer and warm welcome :)

It appears, Cat had prior knowledge of the kids or some knowledge at least. If everything is how they describe it, then if Cat were to lie (being the 'main' nanny) for whatever reason, the other nannies (probably not paying much attention on what was going on -despite it being their job) were then much easier to manipulate on agreeing with smth that wasn't true. They were probably eager to agree by this point fearing the consequences or even incrimination (of losing said child). If no one knew where Maddy was the finger could have being pointed to the nannies (by the management of Ocean) even as a way to force them to comply. This is speculation from me ofc, but I always found shipping them in Cyprus? right after a bit strange.

Is there an independent witness of this High Tea, an employee, a holidaymaker etc (they signed a record or smth, was it checked?) which Maddy participated in, other than the parents and the forgetful nanny?

Should a professional attempted a graphoanalysis of the written record and the signatures be able to verify if it was Kate, or Cat or someone else that did the signing?

A simple picture on 'any' phone or camera would have sufficed I imagine to help strengthen their argument but for whatever reason this family outing lacked in those (pictures). It is really difficult to understand why they didn't produce more quality photos (or didn't show them) from that camera they carried around all the time. Having it displayed prominently and ready for use, one would suppose they (McCanns) were quite fond of photography, but they were probably just too busy playing tennis. That's a lot tennis considering the weather :)  

The witnesses talked with each other a lot it seems, which probably helped them put out a composite of sorts, but when interviewed by the police their stories were just not believable or well memorized despite all the effort. confused



ps: I edited out a bit about the Rothley meeting. I have misunderstood the timing.
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Re: New Video: BEFORE Thursday? (Pt 1) - Did OC staff see Maddie or a SHY T7 Child?

Post by Verdi on 06.06.18 13:41

@HiDeHo wrote:I WOULD however, like to hear  ideas  from others that believe something happened earlier and how it can be explained that Maddie was not at creche.
Simply two words .... Catriona Baker.

The evidence is stacked against her.  The contradictions in her statements suggest either a painfully poor memory or downright lies.  For example, during her witness interview on 6th May 2007m she says that Madeleine's parents, Gerry and Kate McCann, accompanied Madeleine on a few of the organised kids activities - I have never seen any evidence to suggest this to be true, the McCanns themselves certainly never mentioned this hands-on time in their busy sports schedule.  Oh but wait, maybe it was the mini tennis session - when the McCanns were already at the courts, you know the session they can't quite recall when and who.

Whatever happened to Madeleine in truth, nothing suggests her disappearance had any direct connection with the créche, so where exactly does Catriona Baker fit in apart from being just another childcare worker?  All she needed do was directly answer the questions posed during her witness interview, no need for frills or elaboration - just answer the questions. [Important note:  Interview interpreter on 6th May 2007 - Robert Murat]. 
 
Did she do that?  No, she went that extra mile to involve herself on a more personal friendly like way, with the parents McCann.

She, Catriona Baker, was later named by the McCanns as a key witness (sort of character witness) for interview during the rogatory process, mostly held in April 2008.  She was also personally invited by the McCanns to visit them at their home in Rothley in November 2007 to "see how they were getting on" !?!  A visit which curiously coincided with the clandestine Rothley Court Hotel meeting.

Catriona Baker is innit up to her eyeballs - there was no need for her to become personally involved.

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Re: New Video: BEFORE Thursday? (Pt 1) - Did OC staff see Maddie or a SHY T7 Child?

Post by HiDeHo on 06.06.18 14:57

According to Catrionas early statements I see nothing to indicate she was lying in any way.

Maybe after her trip to Rothley she was 'reminded' of a few things for her Rogatory interview a year later. (in a similar way that Dianne was 'reminded' by Dave and Fiona to change her original statement comments)

She was a young girl, along with the others doing her summer job and likely doing no more than to receive the children when they arrived, keep them occupied for a couple of hours, and to allow them to leave with their parents at pick up times.

What Catriona DIDN'T know was that a child that may have been in the creche in the first day or two, was no longer there during the week, but she was TOLD she was there so her brain put the logical info together about a child she then BELIEVED was Maddie...

Encouraged by Gerry, because he manipulated the situation so the nannies believed he was dropping Maddie off and picking her up...







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Re: New Video: BEFORE Thursday? (Pt 1) - Did OC staff see Maddie or a SHY T7 Child?

Post by Tony Bennett on 06.06.18 15:00

@Lossincasa wrote:It appears, Cat had prior knowledge of the kids or some knowledge at least.

REPLY: YES.

I always found shipping them in Cyprus? right after a bit strange.

REPLY: They were nearly all shipped out elsewhere. Mostly to Greece IIRC.

Is there an independent witness of this High Tea, an employee, a holidaymaker etc (they signed a record or smth, was it checked?) which Maddy participated in, other than the parents and the forgetful nanny?

REPLY: NO.

Should a professional attempted a graphoanalysis of the written record and the signatures be able to verify if it was Kate, or Cat or someone else that did the signing?

REPLY: I think most of the signatures were actually those of Gerry & Kate. There is a strange pattern of the timings of their 'pick-ups' and 'collections' of the children. If Cat Baker knew (either more or less) what had happened to Madeleine, she would be in a unique position to have allowed the parents to sign Madeleine in and out, even though she knew she was gone. And this IMO is exactly what she may have done.   

It is really difficult to understand why they didn't produce more quality photos (or didn't show them) from that camera they carried around all the time.

REPLY: Actually, the answer is dead simple. There aren't any.

The witnesses talked with each other a lot it seems, which probably helped them put out a composite of sorts, but when interviewed by the police their stories were just not believable or well memorised despite all the effort.

REPLY: A supreme example of this is the 20+ contradictions between what David Payne and Kate McCann said about an alleged visit by him to the McCanns' flat at about 6.30pm. The visit may not have happened at all; instead they may have agreed to invent the visit but didn't rehearse the details well enough - so that when the police questioned them, their stories fell apart like a wooden hut in a tornado

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Re: New Video: BEFORE Thursday? (Pt 1) - Did OC staff see Maddie or a SHY T7 Child?

Post by sar on 06.06.18 15:04

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Lossincasa wrote:It's my first post here so hi everyone , but I've been on 'n off this case since the start. Can I ask how sure is everyone that the nannies were even remotely professional? Could it be that what they say or write after the fact is just them covering their arses? I always had this notion that everyone (the majority) in the resort was lying for their own reasons (or a reason), like kids getting caught doing smth naughty.

It would be great if there was a way they could be put to the test right away and after shown pics of the kids (all the kids), the nannies demonstrated their 'real' knowledge identifying the 'Ellas' from the 'Maddys'. Would they be able to tell them apart even so soon after the tragedy? I'm not convinced they are telling the truth about how they were spending their time with the kids or if they even glanced their way more than once during a session. Why would they? At least this is what I think. Btw these are some very thoughtful opinions from everyone :)

@Lossincasa:   Welcome - and I agree with the thrust of your questions. I will answer with a few points.

I also put on record that I completely agree with @skyrocket's observations, namely:

"There [was] a whole lot of lying going on after the 3 May (IMO, much more and much deeper than any of us have yet uncovered)".

If we take a broad look at this case, we can be forgiven for thinking that quite a lot of people may have had much to hide:

* The McCanns
* Their Tapas 7 friends
* Some of the other people on that holiday
* The Mark Warner company which organised the holiday, and, yes...
* ...some of the nannies.

And beyond that, we could also be forgiven for thinking that the British state also had much to hide, if we look for example at Tony Blair rushing his top media man Clarence Mitchell to Portugal and at all the members of the British police, MI5, CEOP, Special Branch, Control Risks Group and other security personnel who rushed over to Praia da Luz in the first 9 days (see thread on CMOMM).

I can't unfortunately answer as to how many, if any, of the nannies, had any sort of professional training or qualifications. What we can say is that they were mostly very young - around 20 - and judging by photos that emerged of a previous set of nannies (including Cat Baker) dancing energetically in very light clothing it looks as though they were making sure that they had a very good time while they were over there.  

It can by no means excluded that one or more of the nannies may have had direct or close knowledge of what really happened to Madeleine on that holiday.

If one were to look at the nanny Cat Baker in particular, numerous questions arise.

For a start, there is good evidence that she already knew the McCanns before that holiday.

She was a Facebook friend a year or more previously with Chloe Corner, daughter of Jon Corner, godfather to Amelie - and the person who released the highly controversial 'Make-Up' Photo to the world in 2009.

Months after Madeleine was reported missing, Cat Baker spent several days at the McCanns' in Rothley at the very same time (November 2009) that the McCanns, the Tapas 7, their lawyers and PR representatives were attending a crucial meting at Rothley Court Manor hotel to discuss developments in the case.

Moreover, she was the sole nanny for Madeleine's crèche group of seven children, The Lobsters, and therefore (if there was a cover-up) ideally placed to lie about what happened to Madeleine and assist with what may have been a forgery of the crèche records.

And there IS evidence that she and another nanny, Charlotte Pennington, lied about a crucial event: namely the so-called 'High Tea' at which Madeleine was supposed to have attended at about 5pm on Thursday 3 May.

In fact, Lizzy Taylor (HideHo), the originator of this thread, has already done a comprehensive analysis* of all the multiple contradictions about this alleged event, showing that that the accounts of Kate McCann, Gerry McCann and Cat Baker about what is supposed to have happened at the high tea reveal innumerable serious discrepancies.

We simply cannot rule out either the possibility that one or more of the nannies was deliberately lying (and we have evidence to  support this) or else that they were 'leaned on' to fabricate some of their evidence.   


* LINK: "High Tea Discrepancies" >

http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/Images-for-Twitter/High-Tea-Discrepancies-1-946668.html
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Re: New Video: BEFORE Thursday? (Pt 1) - Did OC staff see Maddie or a SHY T7 Child?

Post by HiDeHo on 06.06.18 15:20

I DO believe the McCann friends (except Dianne Webster) had at least a degree of knowledge of what was going on, but it was Russell that likely knew the most about how Gerry managed to deceive everyone (including Catriona)

August 20th weekend there were suggestions there was  a warrant for his arrest. (according to media, but very specific and possibly true)

He often arrived with the McCanns at drop off or pick up times...

HIS child entered the creche and GERRY chatted to the nannies so they would believe it was Maddie....

(Hence there are so many 'one child in and only one child out scenarios)

Nannies and staff would NOT be aware this was happening, and such a simple (and effective) way to deal with the days at the creche when there was NO reason to question anything strange at that point...

ALL their statements are in retrospect to what they can REMEMBER happening...

They saw a young girl (that they remembered looked like Maddie) come in and out of the creche and GERRY made himself available to chat with the nannies...

He likely FOOLED them into thinking he was the child's father...

Relatively 'simple' under the circumstances.

This is NOT a guess to make a theory fit, on my part... this is what studying the 'files' show is possible/probable....

The creche analysis of those days in question are CURIOUSLY missing from the files...Likely the POLICE knew what happened....
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Re: New Video: BEFORE Thursday? (Pt 1) - Did OC staff see Maddie or a SHY T7 Child?

Post by Tony Bennett on 06.06.18 15:34

@HiDeHo wrote:What Catriona DIDN'T know was that a child that may have been in the creche in the first day or two, was no longer there during the week, but she was TOLD she was there so her brain put the logical info together about a child she then BELIEVED was Maddie...
Lizzy, as you know we disagree markedly on this very crucial issue.

I simply cannot accept that there is any evidential basis for thinking that Madeleine was in the creche 'for a day or two', with just six other children, and that Cat Baker was then 'unaware' that she was missing. This wasn't a class of 30 children.

The unlikeliness of your hypothesis is rather strengthened when we recall Kate's words in 'madeleine' (page 51): "Madeleine's nanny, Cat, I warmed to straightaway, as did Madeleine. [Cat] was bubbly, smiley, kind and bursting with enthusiasm...".

The idea that after that encounter, and her being in the crèche (to quote you) 'for the first day or two', that Madeleine then didn't show up and that Cat didn't realise, and/or was 'told' she was there, stretches credibility IMO to beyond breaking point.  

Like you, I go by the facts and build up my hypotheses based on the available facts. In this case we obviously see the explanation for Cat's conduct very differently.

Respect as always Lizzy despite differing with you on this point  friends

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Re: New Video: BEFORE Thursday? (Pt 1) - Did OC staff see Maddie or a SHY T7 Child?

Post by Lossincasa on 06.06.18 15:37

They either lied outright (the most probable) or they didn't remember exactly (again this is lying) and went along with the parents. I can understand some of them to a degree were fearful, but they all need to be questioned again imo. The McCanns, the nannies, the staff and the guests. Someone in the police must think the same I'm sure or I hope they do, because this burglary-gone-bad thing I hear about, which was the reason I got involved with the case again just isn't believable at all. If no one broke in to steal a child, then no one broke in to steal at all and if they had they would have taken that flashy camera at least.
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Re: New Video: BEFORE Thursday? (Pt 1) - Did OC staff see Maddie or a SHY T7 Child?

Post by Lossincasa on 06.06.18 15:49

@HiDeHo


If they were manipulated from the parents and they gave false statements, what is it that prevents them so many years after the fact, coming forward and tell the truth? Or their version of truth? Like they could say now that they didn't remember seeing Maddy... or they aren't sure. Is it fear of what the people will say or is it you think smth more sinister, like let's say a type of reward? I'm speculating here ofc and my personal opinion is that perhaps, with the exception of the two nannies mentioned who need to be questioned again (It's just not believable Cat forgot about Maddy or never asked a simple question - Where's Maddy mrs McCann? Haven't seen her for two days), the other employees just weren't paying attention.
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Re: New Video: BEFORE Thursday? (Pt 1) - Did OC staff see Maddie or a SHY T7 Child?

Post by HiDeHo on 06.06.18 16:01

Thanks for respecting our differences Tony :)  It's always important to us both to recognise and respect that different research gives us different thoughts on what happened, however, it does bring us to the belief that SOMETHING happened to Maddie early in the week.

For those that don't believe that Catriona (or any other staff during that week) was complicit... the above video is the first of a few that will show the details that explain  HOW the McCanns and their friends managed to deceive everyone into believing Maddie was at the creche...

I realised that before the scenario can be understood there has to be knowledge of the creches and the routes taken.  I have nearly completed a video outining the details of the twins creche... Maddies Mini Club, the Main Reception, the Millenium and High tea location...and the regular routes taken (not short cuts)

All that knowledge is integral to understand why I believe, almost without question, HOW the deceit was achieved (according to the info in the files)

Hopefully it will help and not confuse...
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Re: New Video: BEFORE Thursday? (Pt 1) - Did OC staff see Maddie or a SHY T7 Child?

Post by HiDeHo on 06.06.18 16:10

@Lossincasa wrote:@HiDeHo


If they were manipulated from the parents and they gave false statements, what is it that prevents them so many years after the fact, coming forward and tell the truth? Or their version of truth? Like they could say now that they didn't remember seeing Maddy... or they aren't sure. Is it fear of what the people will say or is it you think smth more sinister, like let's say a type of reward? I'm speculating here ofc and my personal opinion is that perhaps, with the exception of the two nannies mentioned who need to be questioned again (It's just not believable Cat forgot about Maddy or never asked a simple question - Where's Maddy mrs McCann? Haven't seen her for two days), the other employees just weren't paying attention.


Intimidation is, and was prevalent regarding why noone (that we are aware of has come forward)





Regarding the intricacies of the creche and the details of how it would have been run, seems to be based on judgement and expectancies, whereas in reality it was likely not how it was for the nannies...


Hopefully I can explain in an upcoming video
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Re: New Video: BEFORE Thursday? (Pt 1) - Did OC staff see Maddie or a SHY T7 Child?

Post by Verdi on 06.06.18 16:23

@HiDeHo wrote:According to Catrionas early statements I see nothing to indicate she was lying in any way.

Example already given - repeated here..

Catriona Baker witness statement - 6th May 2007


Questioned, she responds that since she has been working with the little girl, it has seemed to her that the parents were attentive to their daughter given that they asked what Madeleine had done in the creche and that they even accompanied Madeleine a few times in certain outside activities.
...................

Where is the evidence that the parents accompanied Madeleine a few times in certain outdoor activities?

If Catrion Baker was telling the truth - who did the McCanns accompany on certain outdoor activities, if not their own daughter Madeleine?

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The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
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Re: New Video: BEFORE Thursday? (Pt 1) - Did OC staff see Maddie or a SHY T7 Child?

Post by HiDeHo on 06.06.18 17:03

@Verdi wrote:
@HiDeHo wrote:According to Catrionas early statements I see nothing to indicate she was lying in any way.

Example already given - repeated here..

Catriona Baker witness statement - 6th May 2007


Questioned, she responds that since she has been working with the little girl, it has seemed to her that the parents were attentive to their daughter given that they asked what Madeleine had done in the creche and that they even accompanied Madeleine a few times in certain outside activities.
...................

Where is the evidence that the parents accompanied Madeleine a few times in certain outdoor activities?

If Catrion Baker was telling the truth - who did the McCanns accompany on certain outdoor activities, if not their own daughter Madeleine?

We dont know if any of the parents including the McCanns (possibly T7) accompanied the creche activities...

We also dont know if that happened whether Catriona was aware of which child was which.

Nothing in her early statements suggest she was lying...

Maybe others think differently, but I see no proof...
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Re: New Video: BEFORE Thursday? (Pt 1) - Did OC staff see Maddie or a SHY T7 Child?

Post by Lossincasa on 06.06.18 18:39

They must have suspected smth, especially after she got 'lost', I believe I would. I'd look back. A mistake made by the kids or the parents, one wrong word, a different character trait etc. Everyone would, I think. Intimidation is too broad, too vague to apply to every employee. A blanket medicine for their problem. Not impossible ofc and I could easily accept it. But what if someone talked anyway? (young) People talk. To a spouse or a relative... because no one has.
But this is very interesting I'd like to see that video :)
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Re: New Video: BEFORE Thursday? (Pt 1) - Did OC staff see Maddie or a SHY T7 Child?

Post by Jill Havern on 06.06.18 20:09

And let us not forget all those lovely photos of Madeleine at the head of 'Sammy Snake' marching proudly down to the beach, and the photos of her in the little sailing boat wearing her lovely little life jacket.

The photos of the art work she did in the creche are particularly lovely and somehow poignant, knowing what we do now, but the memories are there, and the little things she made, the finger paintings and everything else will always be treasured.  We know that parents across the world have seen those photos and felt especially close to us.

The long sequence of photos of Madeleine having her baby tennis lesson make us all very proud. Gerry says he can see real talent emerging.

And we know all parents will sympathise with us when they see the family photos of the ‘spaghetti explosion’ in the apartment . . .



Oh, Hang on . . . .
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Re: New Video: BEFORE Thursday? (Pt 1) - Did OC staff see Maddie or a SHY T7 Child?

Post by HiDeHo on 06.06.18 22:36

McINFO: Locations & Routes of Creche etc Used by McCanns

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