PeterMac's theory of what really happened to Madeleine McCann.

Sundance wrote:Yet the twins slept through the pandemonium of the search for a missing child, even to the point of being passed from pillar to post and transported to another apartment. Seems to be more than just prescription sedation.

There was a lot of emphasis put on the sedation issue by team McCann, by Kate McCann in particular.  Is it really likely the subject would have received so much coverage if one of the McCanns or their friends administered some form of sedation to any of the children?  They didn't know the police investigation files would be released into the public domain so folk would have been none the wiser if the McCanns themselves hadn't sown the seed.

The night of Thursday 3rd May, amidst all the reported pandemonium, remains a mystery.  Gonçalo Amaral was anxious to know why there were two empty cots (stripped of bed linen) in the children's bedroom;  Gerry McCann was said to be guarding the bedroom door to stop people entering;  the McCanns friend said Kate McCann was constantly checking the twins breathing for signs of life yet nether did anything  - too unbelievable to even contemplate;  a source close to another source said the twins remained fast asleep whilst scores of people were traipsing in and out of the room;  a couple of GNR officers mentioned, in their statements some weeks later, babies sleeping in the room during their inspection - this doesn't appear to be taken from their crime scene notes but from their recollection of the night, could be they were told so by the McCanns or their friends.

Seems to me the McCanns wanted, needed, the police to think the twins had been sedated to move the abduction theory forward.  If there were any truth in this claim, the twins would have been medically tested through the auspices of the PJ or the McCann themselves, this way there could be no disputing that the twins (and most likely Madeleine) may have been sedated by the intruder/abductor.  However, they didn't do that, instead Kate McCann put on an Oscar winning performance for all to see looking for signs of life !?!

My thought here is, during a routine police inspection of a crime scene, they would have insisted that the twins be relocated immediately - not to quietly grope around in a dark room so as not to wake two sleeping infants.  Anything the McCanns and their friends said counts for little or nothing so the only indicative here is the GNR officer statements which are tenuous to say the least.

In my view, the sedation hypothesis was planted by team McCann to reinforce their abduction scenario, just as they planted the pedophile seed.  The proverbial innocent explanation for anything the police might find.  There is no such thing as the perfect crime, who knows in years to come what evidence might come to light somewhere .. somehow.  No matter how sure the criminal might be that evidence is lost forever - there's always a chance.  Dogs for example have an uncanny knack of sniffing things out when least expected.

Team McCann, over the past eleven years, have been feeding the public with false information to get them running around in circles - and it works every time!  Folk are hungry for something new - anything new no matter how absurd, they'll grasp anything they read to start building yet another castle in the air.

NB:  Not sure where you get the idea the twins were passed from pillar to post.  From my recollection, according to the gospel of McCann, they were only moved from apartment 5a to David Payne's apartment some time on the night of 3rd/4th May.

Phoebe, most accounts and witness testimony contradict one or other premises of sedation. If we are to believe that the lady upstairs (Mrs. Fenn?) heard MM sobbing for an hour or so on a previous night, then surely that would have roused the twins? So there'd be 3 kids wailing, not one - unless the twins were sedated in some manner.
Then on the fateful night the twins didn't wake at all, despite the obvious noise. Most parent know that farting at the wrong time will wake an infant, never mind two.

Irrespective, it still sends a chill down my spine to think that this pair of negligent parents would even consider leaving 3 babies alone for any length of time while they repeatedly socialised over a 100m away.

Verdi, I'm by no means as well read as most on this forum, so I will always bow to those with more knowledge.

If I'm honest, I'm still in the 'this s**t makes no sense' phase, and am searching for ideas / explanations from you guys who have researched infinitely more, hence the relatively random posts.

I do agree that all will be revealed at some point and one of the co-conspirators will cave one day, of that I am convinced.

Sundance wrote:I do agree that all will be revealed at some point and one of the co-conspirators will cave one day, of that I am convinced.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think for a moment anyone will ever be brought to justice for this seemingly heinous crime - whatever the crime might be apart from the obvious - the disappearance of a three year old child.

During the summer of 2007, the McCanns couldn't possibily have foreseen how things would develop over the months, nor could they have aniticipated the continued public interest specifically generated by release of the PJ files a year later in the summer of 2008.  They planted seeds everywhere to throw the investigation off track as they did to confound public interest via the media.

Verdi wrote:

Sundance wrote:I do agree that all will be revealed at some point and one of the co-conspirators will cave one day, of that I am convinced.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think for a moment anyone will ever be brought to justice for this seemingly heinous crime - whatever the crime might be apart from the obvious - the disappearance of a three year old child.

During the summer of 2007, the McCanns couldn't possibily have foreseen how things would develop over the months, nor could they have aniticipated the continued public interest specifically generated by release of the PJ files a year later in the summer of 2008.  They planted seeds everywhere to throw the investigation off track as they did to confound public interest via the media.

I know this is sort of off on a tangent, but while you're here, has there ever been any talk of the phone hacking scandal in relation to this case? I know that the it first came to light in circa 2005, but surely other entities should have been able to exploit the same technology in May 2007?

Take yer pick..

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/search?search_keywords=leveson

Bet you wish you never asked .

Verdi wrote:Take yer pick..

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/search?search_keywords=leveson

Bet you wish you never asked .

Wow.
I'll have a trawl through, that's why I'm here I suppose. 

Was there any mileage in their voicemails being hacked / retained / covered up?

Sundance wrote:Phoebe, most accounts and witness testimony contradict one or other premises of sedation. If we are to believe that the lady upstairs (Mrs. Fenn?) heard MM sobbing for an hour or so on a previous night, then surely that would have roused the twins? So there'd be 3 kids wailing, not one - unless the twins were sedated in some manner.
Then on the fateful night the twins didn't wake at all, despite the obvious noise. Most parent know that farting at the wrong time will wake an infant, never mind two.

Irrespective, it still sends a chill down my spine to think that this pair of negligent parents would even consider leaving 3 babies alone for any length of time while they repeatedly socialised over a 100m away.

In my experience many young children have an remarkable ability to sleep in any surroundings, especially when very tired. While on holiday abroad I regularly see young toddlers asleep in their buggies while being pushed through the streets during noisy night festivals, busy "midnight" street-markets and in restaurants while the adults eat or have a drink. My own children (except one fella) could have slept through Armageddon! I remember one occasion when my then 4 year old son determinedly fell and remained asleep through a very noisy firework display during a Fiesta - this despite the fact that he had been looking forward to seeing it, he was not in a buggy, several of us tried doggedly to rouse him to watch the fireworks and the place was thronged and extremely noisy with music and even a cannon going off out at sea several times. He slept through the entire event and through being carried back through the streets and put to bed - all without any sedation!
We also have no idea of the sleeping arrangements of the McCann children other than the assertion from the parents that they all shared a room. This is not borne out by cleaner's testimony who recounted having seen a cot in the parents bedroom on the morning after the crying episode Mrs. Fenn mentioned. I believe the police suspected that they might have been sedated, being unable to get their heads around the notion of children so casually abandoned at night, and that the McCanns belatedly decided to use this suggestion for their own ends in order to promote the abduction story.

After much  research, many of us now believe that Madeleine died on April 29th.   If this is true, and it was a result of her being sedated,  then would the group risk harming another child by sedating them?  Would they take the risk of leaving them alone?  probably not.

Were know that at least one member of the group was away from the Tapas each night.  It has also been suggested by the investigation that all the children (7 according to Clarrie)  were being cared for in one apartment.

As a supporter of the above theories, my query is whether the children were sedated each night to make it easier for the group member who looked after them, or were just the twins sedated so that they would not stir and spoil Kates' Oscar winning performance on May 3rd?

I wandered into the children’s bedroom several times to check on Sean and Amelie. They were both lying on their fronts in a kind of crouch, with their heads turned sideways and their knees tucked under their tummies. In spite of the noise and lights and general pandemonium, they hadn’t stirred. They’d always been sound sleepers, but this seemed unnatural. Scared for them, too, I placed the palms of my hands on their backs to check for chest movement, basically, for some sign of life. Had Madeleine been given some kind of sedative to keep her quiet? Had the twins, too?
....................

We tried to explain what had happened. David reiterated his concerns about roadblocks and border notification and I reported my fears that all three children could have been sedated.
....................

Ricardo Paiva played a more prominent role in the interrogation this time, which did nothing to maintain my equilibrium. This was the man who had invited us to his home for dinner. Our children had played with his son. ‘The twins were restless in the UK so you sedated them?’ he was saying. ‘In the UK you were trying to give Madeleine to a family member? You get stressed and frustrated with the kids?’ I knew exactly where this line of questioning was going and, as much as it riled me, I refused to rise to it.
....................

On the night Madeleine was taken, you may remember, Gerry and I had been very concerned that Sean and Amelie had hardly moved in their cots, let alone woken up, despite the commotion in the apartment. Since Madeleine was snatched apparently without making a sound, we had always suspected that all three children might have been sedated by the abductor. We mentioned this to the police that night and several more times in the following weeks, but no testing of urine, blood or hair, which could have revealed the presence of drugs, had ever been done. Apparently, hair grows at a rate of approximately 1cm per month, so it was possible that hair samples taken even four months later could provide us with additional information. It was worth a shot, at least. I asked for samples of my own hair to be taken as well simply because I was fed up with the constant insinuations that I took tranquillizers, sleeping pills or any medication, for that matter.

The process seemed to take ages and we all lost loads of hair. I couldn’t believe they had to take so much. The scientist cut chunks of it from Sean and Amelie’s heads while they were sleeping. I cried as I heard the scissors in their baby-blond hair. I felt angry that the children had to go through this further insult. As for me, I looked as if I had alopecia. Though I cursed the abductor and the PJ, I had bigger things to worry about.
All the hair samples produced negative results. While this didn’t totally exclude the possibility that the children had been sedated, especially given the time that had elapsed, it meant nobody else (including the PJ and the media) could prove otherwise. It also confirmed that I didn’t ‘abuse’ sedative medication. It is sad that we had to go to such lengths to demonstrate this; sadder still that such tests weren’t carried out at the time.
...................

While Gerry and I laboured away, hour after hour, at our desks, the media onslaught continued unabated.

THE McCANNS ARE LYING
IF A BODY ISN’T FOUND, THE McCANNS WILL ESCAPE
BRITISH POLICE SAY MADELEINE DIED IN THE APARTMENT NEW DNA LINKS TO KATE
FSS CONFIRMS PARENTS SEDATED THEIR CHILDREN
GERRY IS NOT MADELEINE’S BIOLOGICAL FATHER

By now you might think I’d have become immune to these headlines, but they still shocked me.

madeleine by KATE MCCANN

[Excerpts for research study purposes only]

I remain convinced that the sedation issue was created to reinforce the abduction hypothesis.

Some comments from CMOMM facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/JillHavernCompleteMysteryofMadeleineMcCann/permalink/2398725947038551/

I don't believe the accidental drug overdose theory I feel something more sinister happened to Madeleine and that someone who was already under pressure suddenly snapped and the other person and persons helped to cover this up , the tie that binds them all together

I also believe there were other activities within this group which are of a criminal nature going on preceding the Portugal trip and during that trip ,another tie. 

I also believe that the group is being protected by very high ranking individuals . That's my views on the case

ROSA wrote:I don't believe the accidental drug overdose theory I feel something more sinister happened to Madeleine and that someone who was already under pressure suddenly snapped and the other person and persons helped to cover this up, the tie that binds them all together

I also believe there were other activities within this group which are of a criminal nature going on preceding the Portugal trip and during that trip ,another tie. 

I also believe that the group is being protected by very high ranking individuals. That's my views on the case

The vast number of state security service officials, police officers, embassy staff, public relations experts, lawyers etc. who swarmed into Praia da Luz within that first week is ample evidence that something nasty and sinister is being covered up. That plus the arrival of Tony Blair's top man at the Media Monitoring Unit in Praia da Luz just two weeks later. See this list:

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t15973-the-important-people-who-rushed-out-to-praia-da-luz-after-3-may-2007-and-by-friday-11-may-2007

Then we have the strong evidence that something serious must have happened to Madeleine on the Sunday afternoon/evening.

The Tapas 7 all co-operated fully with the abduction narrative, as did many other guests e.g. Stephen Carpenter, Jeni Weinberger, Philip Edmonds, Bridget O'Donnell, Dr Julian Totman's wife etc. etc. 

As to the cause of death, if she did die on that Sunday afternoon/evening as some think, at this moment in time, 12 years later, I still cannot work out what may have been the most likely cause of death.

I will however say that the strong alert of both cadaver dogs, Eddie & Keela, to the area below the window and behind the sofa, coupled with the PJ having to lift up two tiles to examine body fluids/blood that had seeped underneath them, points in my view to a death involving possible violence

I still can't weigh up if Madeleine's fate, whatever it may be, was an accident, or deliberate. Who would go on holiday with the intent of causing harm to a child? On the other hand, if an accident happened, how could they cobble together a solution to this problem, which no one has been able to crack?

'No-one has been able to crack'

The Portuguese police made them arguidos

They returned to Britain

They hired PR firms

The Met Police Investigation has not questioned them..

SO

Do you mean that no-one has worked out what happened? 


OR do you mean that there has not been the rigour and will to re-examine the case in this country in the same way in which any other case would be examined?


Could I remind you that the McCanns themselves had the power to re=open the case in Portugal by simply writing and asking?

It still isn't cracked. Nobody has been accused, charged amd imprisoned. That's what I mean.

Time will tell in the meantime keep up the excellent work everyone the McCann's have truly lost their holier than now persona, people are questioning their every move.
I do believe in Karma

So do I , Rosa, I hope it happens in my lifetime!

CaKeLoveR wrote:So do I , Rosa, I hope it happens in my lifetime!

Thanks CaKeLoveR and worriedmum
I have a question for PeterMac
In a missing person case is there a time when they are pronounced dead and does the case get closed ? if someone has been missing for say 20 years for example .

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-482379/Kate-McCann-Madeleine-cried-18-hours-day.html

I am still investigating the pathological double bind between Kate and Madeleine after she was born.

The link shows what was going on in the first 6 months of her life and her mother’s behaviour. 

Is Kate telling the truth about the colic or .....

https://completewellbeing.com/article/colic-in-children/

In the link one can read about colic, mostly called evening colic. Crying 18 hours a day ?

Many of those who are convinced something happened to Madeleine in or around the apartment do wonder why the guilty couple did not call an ambulance. 

As doctors they must have known it was a serious event when it happened. She died. No doubt about that.

Concealing a body and simulating an abduction is in Portugal not considered as a crime to take someone(s) into custody as Amaral wrote in his book.

Susan Healy, Kata’s mother, described the Arguidos status correctly on television. 

My research till now has reached a point of no return. From now on I consider the disappearance of Madeleine as a crime. 
A deliberately committed crime.

I call it a “Three’s a Crowd” crime.

Two couples, the twins and there parents and a firstborn girl who had a lot of medical problems and who’s paternity is still an issue.

Coloboma of the iris, maybe a shakenbaby syndrom (SBS) is also not excluded. 
The PJ requested her medical file, but they didn’t received it.

No autopsy was part of their strategy. Gerry is the criminal mind in this unsolved case. Russell and Matthew are involved in the concealing of her body. Kate in the role of victim. A religious one who sacrificed her daughter to Moloch. Her behaviour is from the beginning a horror show in the media.

This is a double binded web of friends who succeeded in their efforts to 
escape  from justice.

@Calheta19
With the greatest respect, you really are trying my patience - I hope not intentionally.

Since joining the forum all but five weeks ago, you've rocked-up 73 posts, alas all on much the same subject. That in itself is not a problem, if that's your particular area of interest but my concern is your tendency to disrupt forum continuity by floating about posting the same comments on different threads.

If you would like, I can create a thread especially for you to continue the narrative you so fondly embrace. We can name it, say .... Three's a Crowd Crime, or maybe The Double Blind, or The Secret Life of Russell O'Brien? It's no problem for me to do this for you, indeed it would ease the burden of my forum life by having all your commentary under one roof so to speak. Alternatively I can, sorry will, move all your posts to the Unorthodox Theorizing thread.

Please let me know as soon as possible.

Thanks, Verdi

Of course I would like to ease the burden of your forum life.

Three’s a Crowd Crime or the Unorthodox Theorizing thread will also solve my bad behaviour as replier.

Maybe the first option is great. I am not a theorizer or wandering around in a thinking world like Princeton Advanced Studies.

Thanks for being still so kind all the time since my arrival on this forum.

Verdi,

You may move all my posts. I can delete some if necessary and if that is still possible on a new thread.