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Colin Sutton: Met only interested in proving McCann parents innocent

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Re: Colin Sutton: Met only interested in proving McCann parents innocent

Post by Jill Havern on 11.05.17 15:13

I want to see Operation Grange have a NEW remit to investigate the case properly.

And the McCanns have got at least £500,000 tucked away somewhere which could be used in the real search for their daughter, so why shouldn't they donate that money?

Surely they would be only happy to do that, wouldn't they?
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Re: Colin Sutton: Met only interested in proving McCann parents innocent

Post by JRP on 11.05.17 16:27

Left Bank Two by the Noveltones, what an amazing find, I had no idea that's what the Vision On Gallery theme tune was called. It reminds me of getting home from school thumbup 

So, back to the Mc's.
Operation Grange doesn't give updates on what it is doing too often, odd things just turn up on Tracey's page from time to time about who the latest suspect is.
I can understand why they don't update, because, well, it must be difficult to make stuff up just to satisfy us mere mortals, and it's sunny outside, and it's just too 'ot!. 

If the oiks back 'ome want to know what's goin' on Trace, tell 'em it's wasn't a man, it was a woman, dressed in purple. All purply she was, hanging about lookin' all suss, in purple. Not a bit like a tourist.
10 years on, and are we to hope that this woman is still wearing purple? and no doubt, Madeleine is still in her jammies! A bit like the The Incredible Hulk, he gets bigger and bigger, but thankfully, his pants still fit him.
Let's hope this woman doesn't own a pink outfit, or we'll never find her!

Would it matter if Operation Grange folded, like a stripy old purply deckchair?

As Aquila said, the comments allowed in certain places these days mostly relate to the amount of money spent on Operation Grange, and, how it's a waste of money, and questions like, why is Madeleine different from any other missing person?
It fits with Colin Sutton's view that Operation Grange was destined to fail from the start, due to it's limited remit.
In other words, it needs shutting down.

If Operation Grange did shut down, would we get a new Operation Grange, an Operation Grange Two?
What has changed in all these years which would allow an investigation to look into ALL aspects of the case. a remit which would simply state, find out what happened to Madeleine, with no boundaries.
Nothing has changed, so if there is a Operation Grange Two, it's going to follow the same path.

A Garden Path.

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Re: Colin Sutton: Met only interested in proving McCann parents innocent

Post by plebgate on 11.05.17 17:30

Get'emGonçalo wrote:I want to see Operation Grange have a NEW remit to investigate the case properly.

And the McCanns have got at least £500,000 tucked away somewhere which could be used in the real search for their daughter, so why shouldn't they donate that money?

Surely they would be only happy to do that, wouldn't they?
Well they could always send a cheque to the PJ along with a letter asking for it to be put toward a new search for Maddie.

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Re: Colin Sutton: Met only interested in proving McCann parents innocent

Post by sandancer on 11.05.17 17:46

@plebgate wrote:
Get'emGonçalo wrote:I want to see Operation Grange have a NEW remit to investigate the case properly.

And the McCanns have got at least £500,000 tucked away somewhere which could be used in the real search for their daughter, so why shouldn't they donate that money?

Surely they would be only happy to do that, wouldn't they?
Well they could always send a cheque to the PJ along with a letter asking for it to be put toward a new search for Maddie.


Send a cheque ! spit coffee

They couldn't be bothered to send a letter to reopen the investigation !

Part with money , when they still have the court costs to pay .

Imo that money is well and truly squirreled away and will never see light of day

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Re: Colin Sutton: Met only interested in proving McCann parents innocent

Post by aquila on 11.05.17 18:01

I would also like formal scrutiny of the Missing People charity.
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Re: Colin Sutton: Met only interested in proving McCann parents innocent

Post by aquila on 12.05.17 22:46

Slightly off topic but continuing with the reasoning for my request to formally scrutinize the Missing People charity, each time there is a media article concerning a missing person I check if that missing person is present on the Missing People website - and I always find they are not there.

This is a charity that lobbies, that has the backing of very senior police officers who have turned up at the bidding of the charity to 'events'.

This is a charity (juggernaut) that has welcomed Kate McCann as an ambassador.

This charity needs to be publicly scrutinized.

I believe there is a handful of good quality investigative journalists. The Guardian produced an immaculate article on what ought to be the principles of charities - and I'm no Grauniad reader.

The Kids Company charity was supported by the Evening Standard - offering awards and substantiating the prowess of Camilla Batmanghelidj. There was an absolute media storm which turned out to be a storm in a teacup. Yentob resigned one position in the BBC and continued with other well entrenched fruitful establishment pursuits. The untouchables.

The media have become very quiet in this particular case and are not pressing for transparency. Just as the media are not pressing for any form of transparency from Operation Grange, and in the light of Colin Sutton's potentially explosive and damning accusation there is a kind of hush all over the world tonight.

Establishment? From where I'm sitting you're darned right it is.
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Re: Colin Sutton: Met only interested in proving McCann parents innocent

Post by polyenne on 12.05.17 22:52

Aquila, after all your pontificating earlier this week, you now deem CS "accusation" to be "explosive and damning".
What "accusation" might that be ?

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Re: Colin Sutton: Met only interested in proving McCann parents innocent

Post by polyenne on 12.05.17 22:53

Sorry, only "potentially" !!

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Re: Colin Sutton: Met only interested in proving McCann parents innocent

Post by aquila on 12.05.17 22:56

@polyenne wrote:Sorry, only "potentially" !!
Please quit the personal stuff. It's tiresome. Give an opinion of your own.
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Re: Colin Sutton: Met only interested in proving McCann parents innocent

Post by aquila on 12.05.17 23:26

I see no headline in the UK media - the media that produced so much garbage and shock headlines around the disappearance of a little 3 year old girl called Madeleine - to ask Colin Sutton to blow a whistle and blow it now.
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Colin Sutton - now Britain's leading expert on BOTH the Madeleine McCann case AND the Corrie McKeague case

Post by Tony Bennett on 12.05.17 23:38

It seems that 'our' Colin Sutton has become something of an expert on missing person cases.

He is also the lead, 'go-to', 'expert', 'senior' detective for the media in the case of the complete mystery of the disappearance of Corrie McKeague, as this catalogue of entries on the Google search engine reveals:

  
Retired Detective Colin Sutton About Corrie Mckeague 24th October ...
 2:41
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CSm-gcl2hc
Oct 27, 2016 - Uploaded by #findcorrie
A former detective has told ITV News Anglia he believes a third party was involved in the disappearance of RAF ...


Expert detective analyses Corrie McKeague case as police search ...
https://www.thesun.co.uk/.../as-missing-gunner-corrie-mckeague-could-be-found-in-lan...
Mar 12, 2017 - By Ex-Chief Inspector Colin Sutton, detective who nailed serial killer Levi ... MORE than five months of intrigue about missing Corrie McKeague ...


Senior detective: 'Corrie McKeague didn't disappear on purpose ...
www.itv.com/news/.../senior-detective-corrie-mckeague-didnt-disappear-on-purpose/
Cached
Oct 24, 2016 - Read the latest Anglia stories, Senior detective: 'Corrie McKeague didn't ... Colin Sutton was a senior detective for the Metropolitan Police, ...


Retired Detective Colin Sutton About Corrie Mckeague » - findcorrie
www.findcorrie.co.uk/third-party-involvement/
Cached
Find Corrie McKeagueServing Senior Airman · Family UpdatesPlease help find Corrie · FAQsAnswers · Media CoverageSomeone Knows Something · CCTV ...


Someone else is involved in Corrie McKeague's disappearance from ...
www.ipswichstar.co.uk/.../someone-else-is-involved-in-corrie-mckeague-s-disappeara...
Cached
Oct 28, 2016 - Nicola Urquhart, mother of Corrie McKeague, is appealing to the ... chief inspector Colin Sutton, who believes there is no evidence Corrie has ...

============

I am wondering, actually, what Colin Sutton's record of success is in his detective work.

He hasn't been very successful on the Madeleine McCann case, has he? He's had 10 years of pontificating on it, but still doesn't have a clue what happened to her and says 'more work needs to be done'.

And what makes him such an expert on both Madeleine McCann and Corrie McKeague, both very strange disappearances?

He is frequently described as a 'senior' detective, but it seems he was only a Detective Inspector.

There are THREE detective ranks above this:
* Detective Chief Inspector
* Detective Superintendent
* Detective Chief Superintendent.

There are only TWO ranks below Detective Inspector:
* Detective Sergeant
* Detective Constable.

So 'senior' detective is a bit inaccurate. He was actually only the 4th rank out if the six detective ranks.

Come to think of it, just how low ranking do you have to be to star in a missing persons' documentary, or to be regarded as a 'crack', or 'senior', or 'expert' detective?
Take Dave Edgar in the Madeleine McCann case. Detective Inspector - retired. Again, only the 4th rank.

What about his assistant, Arthur Cowley? Merely a Detective Sergeant - also retired. Only made the 5th rank, after 30 years service. Co-operated with Brian Kennedy, the McCanns' lead investigator, to create the bogus 'ALPHAIG' company at his home on Halkyn Mountain, with a pigeon loft and two or three horses.     

Then there is the strange case of Mark Williams-Thomas. He never made it past Detective Constable while in the Surrey Police, then left under a cloud. Whether he resigned or was sacked, nobody knows. He was wrong about Madeleine McCann and Joana Cipriano cases. He has been wrong in other cases too. He recently said that Madeleine probably just wandered off into the night - just like that.

What exactly qualifies him, or Colin Sutton for that matter, to pontificate so often on the telly about crimes in the news. Why do the media go to folk like these for comments?

What is their actual track record?

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Re: Colin Sutton: Met only interested in proving McCann parents innocent

Post by Verdi on 12.05.17 23:56

Yes, all retired and in need of a pension boost - what better way than hook-up to a high profile criminal case, albeit on the periphery as a daytime television studio commentator.

Colin Sutton has all the appearances of a self-styled Mark Williams-Thomas, same meat different jus source gravy.

Score:  Colin Sutton 10 - Madeleine McCann 0

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Re: Colin Sutton: Met only interested in proving McCann parents innocent

Post by Verdi on 13.05.17 0:02

I wonder what ex-DCI Andy Redwood's got in store for the future..



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Re: Colin Sutton: Met only interested in proving McCann parents innocent

Post by aquila on 13.05.17 0:05

Dear God, Madeleine McCann always comes out as the loser.
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Re: Colin Sutton: Met only interested in proving McCann parents innocent

Post by Verdi on 13.05.17 0:07

@aquila wrote:Dear God, Madeleine McCann always comes out as the loser.
Hail CMoMM!

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Re: Colin Sutton: Met only interested in proving McCann parents innocent

Post by Phoebe on 13.05.17 1:07

Are serving police, of any rank, not prohibited from offering personal opinions on cases? Does not this limit the pool of potential commentators with actual police experience to those no longer serving? When Colin Sutton first began posting no one commented that his rank was too lowly. He has stated clearly that he has not formed an opinion on what happened to Madeleine so, if this is the case, how can he express such an opinion?

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Re: Colin Sutton: Met only interested in proving McCann parents innocent

Post by pennylane on 14.05.17 11:07

@Phoebe wrote:Are serving police, of any rank, not prohibited from offering personal opinions on cases? Does not this limit the pool of potential commentators with actual police experience to those no longer serving? When Colin Sutton first began posting no one commented that his rank was too lowly. He has stated clearly that he has not formed an opinion on what happened to Madeleine so, if this is the case, how can he express such an opinion?

Agreed Phoebe! Op Grange and Team McCann's massive 10th Anniversary 'stranger abduction' PR offensive, was annihilated by Colin Sutton's shocking (to many) MSM reveal. Way to go Sutton!    nod

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Re: Colin Sutton: Met only interested in proving McCann parents innocent

Post by Jill Havern on 14.05.17 13:02

@Phoebe wrote:Are serving police, of any rank, not prohibited from offering personal opinions on cases? Does not this limit the pool of potential commentators with actual police experience to those no longer serving? When Colin Sutton first began posting no one commented that his rank was too lowly. He has stated clearly that he has not formed an opinion on what happened to Madeleine so, if this is the case, how can he express such an opinion?
I agree too.

The rank of DCI cannot be considered too lowly, otherwise DCI Nicola Wall wouldn't be in charge now.

Nor would DCI Redwood have been for that matter, despite being a plonker. Madeleine is either alive or, sadly, dead. roll
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Re: Colin Sutton: Met only interested in proving McCann parents innocent

Post by ChippyM on 14.05.17 13:16

@init wrote:
@ChippyM wrote:
@init wrote:.......snipped........Imagine if Colin Sutton came on here before the Sky interview and asked us all, if we could get him to say 1 FACT about the case on MSM what would it be? I bet a lot of people would have gone for OG is a shambles. (Others maybe the dogs?)

There's no need to state in MSM that OG was a shambles when the remit was there for all to read from the start.   It's more a a sad (or deliberate) case of the media never reporting on it. The entire British public have been free to read that remit and contemplate for years.  I just don't understand a whistleblower who chooses to toot weakly on his whistle when he could have a had a really massive blow ( sorry, weird imagery laughat

  It seems like someone who wants to be seen to be speaking out but for whatever reason,  hedging their bets so that they can continue 'commentating' without hindrance.

Thats like saying theres no longer any need to have a forum because all the evidence is in the PJ Files for all to see... By having Colin Sutton on their show they "reported it" so I don't quite follow your comment.

What else do you expect / want from Colin?

......snipped.

I'm not saying there is no need for anyone to discuss it or other evidence - that has been going on under the radar of 'mainstream' discussion for years. I was responding to the comment that most people would think it more important for an 'expert' to talk about the limited remit rather than the dog evidence, I disagree. The Dog evidence would make more of an impact on the public and generate more discussion.

   I don't expect anything from Colin Sutton. I don't know him so can't speak for his motives in all this. In telling us his anonymous source / phone call story, what has that achieved? Do the government feel pressured and embarrassed because someone high up in the Met wasn't named? Is the media full of articles about the remit being a joke? Is anyone discussing the remit outside of the circles where it has been discussed for years?  
    Nope -  but it gives him a kind of 'insider' credibility that simultaneously allows him to keep commenting to the media.   I'm not attacking him, I just don't see him as some kind of whistleblower who has dared to speak out.

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Re: Colin Sutton: Met only interested in proving McCann parents innocent

Post by plebgate on 16.05.17 8:35

@pennylane wrote:
@Phoebe wrote:Are serving police, of any rank, not prohibited from offering personal opinions on cases? Does not this limit the pool of potential commentators with actual police experience to those no longer serving? When Colin Sutton first began posting no one commented that his rank was too lowly. He has stated clearly that he has not formed an opinion on what happened to Madeleine so, if this is the case, how can he express such an opinion?

Agreed Phoebe! Op Grange and Team McCann's massive 10th Anniversary 'stranger abduction' PR offensive, was annihilated by Colin Sutton's shocking (to many) MSM reveal. Way to go Sutton!    nod
Agreed.   Cops are trained not to divulge info that could land one of their own "in it".   Who would give him any info. in the future if they thought their names would be splattered all over the newspapers?

The Top Brass could always issue a statement saying it is complete nonsense but the silence is deafening imo. 

I doubt we will see Colin back anyway but I think what he said took guts and I do not believe he was lying as there has been absolutely no response to his comments.

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Re: Colin Sutton: Met only interested in proving McCann parents innocent

Post by Verdi on 16.05.17 15:54

The more you - no, make that I - think about this affair the more curious it becomes. 

One memorable day in April, Colin sutton appeared on CMoMM from out of the blue with potentially explosive information which he was prepared to share with the forum, a public venue as regards readership but nonetheless his chosen destination for revelationary information , as and when ... drip...  drip... drip.  In particular he named the pending Sky Documentary as the stalling obstacle but stated he would return to CMoMM after the documentary to answer inevitable questions and to discuss the case in general - on that point regretfully for whatever reason, he has reneged on the deal. 

Colin Sutton claims he was contacted by a very senior Metropolitan Police officer when planning was underway to launch Operation Grange in 2010.  Haven't time at present to dig out his exact words but this is Mark Saunokonoko's version..  "Sutton received a phone tip off from a very senior Metropolitan police officer, warning him about the looming investigation and how it would be handled."

Please note the word 'investigation' as opposed to review - which, we are given to understand, was initially the reason behind the set-up of Operation Grange - to coordinate and review all documentation from different sources, into the case of missing Madeleine McCann.  So I ask myself - was Operation Grange an investigative force from the beginning in May 2011 under the guise of a review team?  Or is this all some cock 'n bull story, the wider agenda - it wouldn't be the first to feature in this sorry saga would it?  The media always appear to be behind the McCann tour de force!

In short, why would a high ranking police officer in 2010 be warning a colleague against heading a bias 'review' with a limited remit?  How can coordination and reviewing of investigative files have a remit of any description, let alone a bias limited remit?

Again I ask - why would Colin Sutton be warned against taking on the role of leading Operation Grange in 2010, when he was due to retire early in 2011.  Remember Operation Grange wasn't launched until May 2011 - a bit later in the year than early.

Something doesn't add up - I smell a purple herring!

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Re: Colin Sutton: Met only interested in proving McCann parents innocent

Post by plebgate on 16.05.17 16:12

I remember reading a post on CMOMM where it was stated that the review was always going to become an investigation.   Not sure if it was from a video of BHH but it was definitely posted on here.
So for now I do not see a purple herring.

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Re: Colin Sutton: Met only interested in proving McCann parents innocent

Post by Jill Havern on 16.05.17 16:19




A strange tweet from Colin earlier in response to a tweet about NHS hacking.

How did NHS hacking turn into online name-calling?
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Re: Colin Sutton: Met only interested in proving McCann parents innocent

Post by Verdi on 16.05.17 21:29

Op Grange Remit

The support and expertise proffered by the Commissioner will be provided by the Homicide & Serious Crime Command - SCD1.

The activity, in the first instance, will be that of an ‘investigative review’. This will entail a review of the whole of the investigation(s) which have been conducted in to the circumstances of Madeleine McCann’s disappearance.

The focus of the review will be of the material held by three main stakeholders (and in the following order of primacy);

The Portuguese Law Enforcement agencies.
UK Law Enforcement agencies,
Other private investigative agencies/staff and organisations.

The investigative review is intended to collate, record and analyse what has gone before.

It is to examine the case and seek to determine, (as if the abduction occurred in the UK) what additional, new investigative approaches we would take and which can assist the Portuguese authorities in progressing the matter. Whilst ordinarily a review has no investigative remit whatsoever- the scale and extent of this enquiry cannot permit for such an approach. It will take too long to progress to any “action stage” if activity is given wholly and solely to a review process.

The ‘investigative review’ will be conducted with transparency, openness and thoroughness.

The work will be overseen through the Gold Group management structure, which will also manage the central relationships with other key stakeholders and provide continuing oversight and direction to the investigative remit.
----------

Read carefully!

So....  Whilst ordinarily a review has no investigative remit whatsoever- the scale and extent of this enquiry [review?] cannot permit for such an approach. It will take too long to progress to any “action stage” if activity is given wholly and solely to a review [enquiry?] process.....  still it took two years before the intitial 'review' [investigative review?] was upgraded to a full blown 'investigation'.

Word play methinks.

Whatever, it still doesn't explain why a high ranking Metropolitan Police Officer is warning a colleague against heading a case review/investigation in 2010, eventually launched in the name of Operation Grange in May 2011 when said colleague was due to retire early 2011.

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Re: Colin Sutton: Met only interested in proving McCann parents innocent

Post by pennylane on 16.05.17 23:03

@plebgate wrote:
@pennylane wrote:
@Phoebe wrote:Are serving police, of any rank, not prohibited from offering personal opinions on cases? Does not this limit the pool of potential commentators with actual police experience to those no longer serving? When Colin Sutton first began posting no one commented that his rank was too lowly. He has stated clearly that he has not formed an opinion on what happened to Madeleine so, if this is the case, how can he express such an opinion?

Agreed Phoebe! Op Grange and Team McCann's massive 10th Anniversary 'stranger abduction' PR offensive, was annihilated by Colin Sutton's shocking (to many) MSM reveal. Way to go Sutton!    nod
Agreed.   Cops are trained not to divulge info that could land one of their own "in it".   Who would give him any info. in the future if they thought their names would be splattered all over the newspapers?

The Top Brass could always issue a statement saying it is complete nonsense but the silence is deafening imo. 


I doubt we will see Colin back anyway but I think what he said took guts and I do not believe he was lying as there has been absolutely no response to his comments.
agree  I hope he keeps up the pressure.

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