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Colin Sutton: Met only interested in proving McCann parents innocent - Page 4 Mm11

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Post by Jill Havern 08.05.17 21:58

Message posted by JC on facebook to Mets Professional Standard:

Good afternoon,
Can you explain to me how on earth Operation Grange , the so called search for Madeleine Mccann can possibly ever hope to gain a conviction given the recent allegations made by a former Met DCI on national television? Unless i am mistaken he was distinctly saying the investigation point blank refused to consider the parents as suspects, in further communications he has also stated this certainly was a viable line of enquiry.
Given the small mountain of all be it circumstantial evidence implicating the parents, hardly a surprise to the hundreds or thousands of us who have communicated the very same thoughts to Grange over the years (not that any one of them has ever so much as received a reply to my knowledge)
To hear it come out of the mouth of one of the Mets most senior detectives something of a jaw dropper to say the least.
to name a couple of somewhat alarming points the Met refused to consider.
1/ concerns by friends of the Mccanns Dr David Payne may have been a paedophile fixated on MM.
2/The assertion by key witness Martin Smith it may well have been Gerry Mccann he saw carrying a child in pink pyjamas that night.
3/This very evidence the Mccanns hid from view for fully 5 years before the Crime Watch showing.
I'm not saying this is what the detective thinks , I merely speak for myself however he , and the documentary concerned made it abundantly clear Grange was totally prejudiced by the assumption of the Mccanns innocence.
Given the facts and absence of evidence that clears the Mccanns , supported by the recent supreme court judgement in Portugal , this assumption is clearly utterly ridiculous.
The implications are extremely clear
Grange was the result of political pressure applied to then PM David Cameron by Rebekah Brooks.
Grange is Home Office funded.
This is the same organisation that frustrated the original Portuguese investigation by denying medical records (another obvious line of enquiry that could have uncovered physical or sexual abuse)
The Home office dictated to grange the Mccanns were totally off the table.
A couple of other points I would like to make, if the police had grounds to investigate they could have done so at the very beginning, they had an offence in the UK , a potential 4.5 million pound fraud.
given other leaked documents on the case stating it was the UK police who developed the evidence against the parents at what point did they change their minds? - and why was this never conveyed to the Portuguese?
Furthermore if the police had investigated , which the detective seems to be suggesting would have been entirely appropriate, this whole climate of "trolling" may well never have come about. This resulted in a woman committing suicide after being doorstepped by Martin Brunt , ironically the very same reporter the detective divulged this information to.
If the woman had the very same suspicions as our own police, she is no troll, Brunt isn't on her doorstep and she may well be still alive.
In any event , back to my original point. If there is a grain of truth in this the investigation is clearly compromised to the point it could never hope to gain a conviction.
Furthermore it potentially severely undermines both past and future Metropolitan Police investigations, the credibility of the force as a whole , that of the Crown Prosecution Service and the entire UK justice system.
I would simply like to know if you intend doing anything about it.
Regards, JC

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Post by pennylane 08.05.17 23:15

Get'emGonçalo wrote:Message posted by JC on facebook to Mets Professional Standard:

Good afternoon,
Can you explain to me how on earth Operation Grange , the so called search for Madeleine Mccann can possibly ever hope to gain a conviction given the recent allegations made by a former Met DCI on national television? Unless i am mistaken he was distinctly saying the investigation point blank refused to consider the parents as suspects, in further communications he has also stated this certainly was a viable line of enquiry.
Given the small mountain of all be it circumstantial evidence implicating the parents, hardly a surprise to the hundreds or thousands of us who have communicated the very same thoughts to Grange over the years (not that any one of them has ever so much as received a reply to my knowledge)
To hear it come out of the mouth of one of the Mets most senior detectives something of a jaw dropper to say the least.
to name a couple of somewhat alarming points the Met refused to consider.
1/ concerns by friends of the Mccanns Dr David Payne may have been a paedophile fixated on MM.
2/The assertion by key witness Martin Smith it may well have been Gerry Mccann he saw carrying a child in pink pyjamas that night.
3/This very evidence the Mccanns hid from view for fully 5 years before the Crime Watch showing.
I'm not saying this is what the detective thinks , I merely speak for myself however he , and the documentary concerned made it abundantly clear Grange was totally prejudiced by the assumption of the Mccanns innocence.
Given the facts and absence of evidence that clears the Mccanns , supported by the recent supreme court judgement in Portugal , this assumption is clearly utterly ridiculous.
The implications are extremely clear
Grange was the result of political pressure applied to then PM David Cameron by Rebekah Brooks.
Grange is Home Office funded.
This is the same organisation that frustrated the original Portuguese investigation by denying medical records (another obvious line of enquiry that could have uncovered physical or sexual abuse)
The Home office dictated to grange the Mccanns were totally off the table.
A couple of other points I would like to make, if the police had grounds to investigate they could have done so at the very beginning, they had an offence in the UK , a potential 4.5 million pound fraud.
given other leaked documents on the case stating it was the UK police who developed the evidence against the parents at what point did they change their minds? - and why was this never conveyed to the Portuguese?
Furthermore if the police had investigated , which the detective seems to be suggesting would have been entirely appropriate, this whole climate of "trolling" may well never have come about. This resulted in a woman committing suicide after being doorstepped by Martin Brunt , ironically the very same reporter the detective divulged this information to.
If the woman had the very same suspicions as our own police, she is no troll, Brunt isn't on her doorstep and she may well be still alive.
In any event , back to my original point. If there is a grain of truth in this the investigation is clearly compromised to the point it could never hope to gain a conviction.
Furthermore it potentially severely undermines both past and future Metropolitan Police investigations, the credibility of the force as a whole , that of the Crown Prosecution Service and the entire UK justice system.
I would simply like to know if you intend doing anything about it.
Regards, JC

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Well said John Coxon! 

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Post by pennylane 08.05.17 23:24

It's becoming increasingly obvious this corrupt farce is unsustainable,
and the lid's going to blow one way or the other!  bomb
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Post by Jill Havern 08.05.17 23:58

pennylane wrote:It's becoming increasingly obvious this corrupt farce is unsustainable,
and the lid's going to blow one way or the other!  bomb
It has to.

And it took a retired Met Police Officer to start the ball rolling thumbsup

Lest we forget:

Prime Minister Theresa May introducing Prime Suspect Kate McCann to the Duchess of Gloucester.

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Post by Guest 09.05.17 8:00

Great post by JC.

Are there any decent people in the Met willing to do something about this farce?
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Post by Jill Havern 09.05.17 9:07

BlueBag wrote:Great post by JC.

Are there any decent people in the Met willing to do something about this farce?
I'm pretty sure I saw a comment on his facebook page that he's ex Met.

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Post by Doug D 09.05.17 15:22

Colin Sutton answering questions on ‘Twitter’ today:                 
 
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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]‪ you are a decent man.
            ‪Did it all just get to be too much to ignore?
            ‪Did you hope the lead DCI would not succumb to pressures?

            

           
            
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1- I hoped Grange was doing other work in the background; 2- When I decided to speak it took a while to find an MSM outlet who would listen.

            

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Hi Mr Sutton, did the Senior officer that called you explain why the investigation policy for the case was the way it was? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
 
 
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No. And I didn't ask. It seemed to me that was just how it was going to be.
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Ben, come on! Obviously if it was revealed it cannot be displayed here...
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7:02 am - 9 May 2017
 
 
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Just looked at Panorama again. Did Op Grange pre-eliminate McCanns simply because they weren't in 5A when the disappearance was reported?
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Post by Liz Eagles 09.05.17 15:41

Colin Sutton has so much more to do to find justice for Madeleine McCann, a little girl short of her fourth birthday who disappeared.

Making documentaries and noises isn't enough.


People who herald Colin Sutton as some sort of whistle blower are wrong.

Colin Sutton needs to address his own commitment to finding justice for Madeleine McCann without fear or favour. Bleeting about a call from an unnamed senior Met officer to warn him off the McCann case isn't good enough. Having a new post-retirement career in the media isn't good enough.


So, Colin Sutton, stand up and be counted. When you do that you will find a legion of people behind you.

ETA: Blow the bloody whistle. Name and shame. Crowd funding will pay your pension deficit.
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Post by Guest 09.05.17 15:43

Doug D wrote:
 
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Just looked at Panorama again. Did Op Grange pre-eliminate McCanns simply because they weren't in 5A when the disappearance was reported?
I saw this on twitter earlier today - accompanied by extract from Panorama video featuring the unbelievable Simon Foy, former head of Met Police homicide squad.  I quote..

".... it was perfectly clear to us that the McCanns themselves had nothing to do with the actual disappearance"

Why?!

"because it was just...  it just... it was just obvious... from you know th't th't ... everything stacked up that they ... you know ... they wear were they wear were they where ... when the child went missing"
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Post by Guest 09.05.17 15:47

Great post by JC.

Careful with the JC - readers might get the wrong idea big grin .
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Post by polyenne 09.05.17 15:53

I'm not sure that Colin Sutton will respond favourably to what I construe to be goading from some posters.

He is under no obligations though it does appear that he could play an immensly important role if he so chooses.

We cannot make that decision and I suspect he is having to do a fair amount of soul-searching before making further measured comments.

That might not be enough for some but they are not in his shoes. Slowly, slowly, catchy monkey
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Post by Liz Eagles 09.05.17 15:56

Colin Sutton chose to attach himself to this forum.

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Post by polyenne 09.05.17 15:57

And he can choose to disappear. Do you want that ? I don't
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Post by MTSTAR 09.05.17 16:13

Verdi wrote:
Great post by JC.

Careful with the JC - readers might get the wrong idea big grin .
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Post by Liz Eagles 09.05.17 16:22

polyenne wrote:And he can choose to disappear. Do you want that ? I don't
He has chosen to disappear.
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Post by Jill Havern 09.05.17 16:25

polyenne wrote:And he can choose to disappear. Do you want that ? I don't
Nor do I.

Unfortunately he got off to a bad start here - mainly because of our sceptism of other former Police officers in the media, e.g. Mark Williams-Thomas and Jim Gamble (who congratulated Martin Brunt for a job well done for doorstepping Brenda Leyland).

None of us can forgive or forget what happened to Brenda just as we can't forgive and forget what happened to Maddie.

As Jon Coxon, another ex-Met Police officer, pointed out it was Martin Brunt who was interviewing Colin.

Surely Colin can understand where we're coming from?

I speak for myself but what Maddie needs is for someone with balls - especially a former MET police officer - to DO SOMETHING for this three year old child! It infuriates me no end that people would rather make a name for themselves, like MW-T and JG, because of Maddie.

So, Colin, I ask you again to DO SOMETHING positive to out the people who are covering up her death. You have opened a can of worms which we, here on CMOMM, fully intend to take advantage of with our next letter to the PM/Grange/CD/AR within the next few days.

You have kids yourself so you are only too aware of how precious they are and I'm sure you would fight to the death to protect them too.

We didn't even know Maddie, yet we've spent ten years of our lives campaigning and fighting for her as though we did.

I have emailed you and messaged you to no avail.

Sorry, but you either need to be a real HERO for Maddie or stop tweeting about her.

She is NOT the means to an end to sell a book.

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Post by princess_leia 09.05.17 16:50

Get'emGonçalo wrote:
polyenne wrote:And he can choose to disappear. Do you want that ? I don't
Nor do I.

Unfortunately he got off to a bad start here - mainly because of our sceptism of other former Police officers in the media, e.g. Mark Williams-Thomas and Jim Gamble (who congratulated Martin Brunt for a job well done for doorstepping Brenda Leyland).

None of us can forgive or forget what happened to Brenda just as we can't forgive and forget what happened to Maddie.

As Jon Coxon, another ex-Met Police officer, pointed out it was Martin Brunt who was interviewing Colin.

Surely Colin can understand where we're coming from?

I speak for myself but what Maddie needs is for someone with balls - especially a former MET police officer - to DO SOMETHING for this three year old child! It infuriates me no end that people would rather make a name for themselves, like MW-T and JG, because of Maddie.

So, Colin, I ask you again to DO SOMETHING positive to out the people who are covering up her death. You have opened a can of worms which we, here on CMOMM, fully intend to take advantage of with our next letter to the PM/Grange/CD/AR within the next few days.

You have kids yourself so you are only too aware of how precious they are and I'm sure you would fight to the death to protect them too.

We didn't even know Maddie, yet we've spent ten years of our lives campaigning and fighting for her as though we did.

I have emailed you and messaged you to no avail.

Sorry, but you either need to be a real HERO for Maddie or stop tweeting about her.

She is NOT the means to an end to sell a book.
Well said!  thumbsup
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Post by polyenne 09.05.17 17:41

I should imagine that, on the basis of the high level of "interest" in this case by HMG and allegedly MI5, anyone who might feasibly be in the know and who pops their head above the parapet will find themselves in the crosshairs, probably covertly
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Post by Jill Havern 09.05.17 17:47

polyenne wrote:I should imagine that, on the basis of the high level of "interest" in this case by HMG and allegedly MI5, anyone who might feasibly be in the know and who pops their head above the parapet will find themselves in the crosshairs, probably covertly
Well, I'm not in HMG or MI5, so I'll do it....but at least Colin has started the ball rolling.

And if I go missing then please check the woods.

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Post by polyenne 09.05.17 17:50

I'll be checking the Blue Bag first........
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Post by sandancer 09.05.17 18:14

Get'emGonçalo wrote:
polyenne wrote:I should imagine that, on the basis of the high level of "interest" in this case by HMG and allegedly MI5, anyone who might feasibly be in the know and who pops their head above the parapet will find themselves in the crosshairs, probably covertly
Well, I'm not in HMG or MI5, so I'll do it....but at least Colin has started the ball rolling.

And if I go missing then please check the woods.


If we have to check the woods , can we call in the dogs ?  lol4

Mr Sutton , Colin , you have opened that " can of worms " it ain't going to go away !

So you came in for a bit of flak when you came here , surely you are a big enough man and have had much worse in your career to let that stop you coming back and carrying on ?

So much b/s has been written/said recently and over the past 10 years about what did/didn't happen in Portugal , at the top of the list should be a little girl who needs Truth and Justice .

Sadly it's become about those who want their five minutes of fame and a boost to their bank balance .

Come on Colin , step forward for one reason only Madeleine .

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Post by pennylane 09.05.17 18:40

The establishment does not take kindly to whistle blowers, and I imagine Colin Sutton is being watched closely. I think he should tread carefully before making any next moves.

I really hope he has colleagues that are willing to help him expose this corrupt farce further. It's a huge accomplishment to get a factual MSM exposé of the corruptness that surrounds Operation Grange.  There's no getting away from the damage Mr Sutton has inflicted not only on the Home Office and Op Grange, but also on Team McCann and Theresa May collectively as she was Home Secretary at the time Op Grange was set up with its phony remit.  Let's hope this straw truly breaks the camels back.
Brave move indeed. Jolly well done Mr Sutton!  thumbup
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Post by polyenne 09.05.17 19:27

Well said Pennylane
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Post by Jill Havern 09.05.17 21:03

Posted by Colin Sutton on his blog:-


Tuesday, 9 May 2017

Madeleine McCann and Operation Grange

At the outset I should say that I don't know what happened to Madeleine McCann.  All the evidence available to me – and there is more and deeper information available to the public on this than any case I have looked at – does not convince me of any theory or scenario being proved.  Soon, in the coming months when my other projects are less busy, I hope to take a proper analytical look at it all and come up with some conclusions.  But as things stand my position is that I don't know.

Having said all that, there are aspects of the case which trouble me already and the main one is what the Metropolitan Police set out to do in Operation Grange.  My brush with that investigation – and I call it that because I was never actually involved with it – has been the subject of a fair bit of comment, embellishment and misunderstanding.  So it is right I think that I set out clearly what happened and what did not.

On Sunday 9th May 2010 the News of the World published a story which suggested that the Met was going to reinvestigate Madeleine’s disappearance and that I would be asked to lead it.  This was news to me on both counts. Nobody from the Met had, or indeed ever did, make such a request of me.

The only official news I heard about the reinvestigation was a week or two later when I heard that the idea of such a reinvestigation had been shelved for the time being in the wake of the change of Government. You will recall the note by former Chief Secretary to the Treasury Liam Byrne, apologising to his successor that there was no money left. The rumour in the Met was that, unless and until the Government were prepared to fund it, we would not undertake such an expensive operation which, as desirable as it might have been, was not really something on which Londoners should see their Council Tax spent.

However, before this, just a few days after the NotW story I did receive a call from a senior officer in the Met whom I knew quite well.  This officer told me I would do better to avoid the McCann investigation if it did happen, because "You wouldn't be happy leading an investigation where you were told what you could look at and what you could not".

That is the totality of the advice I received. It was made clear that this was an ‘unofficial’ call and that it was made in my interest – so that I might not end up taking on a task which would ultimately frustrate me.  As such I never pressed the caller for more information, nor will I ever be in a position to disclose who the officer was.

I was familiar enough with the reporting of the McCann case in the media to understand that there was a widespread reluctance to talk of any scenario which did not involve an abduction and in which no blame or complicity was to be attributed to the parents and their friends.  This struck me as odd but, in those days, quite frankly I was busy enough with he investigations I was involved in without undertaking any 'off the books' look at what had gone on in Praia de Luz.  I had assumed that there was good reason for this; that those who had been involved had satisfied themselves that was the case.

I retired after 30 years service in early 2011.  At the time I retired there had been no decision made to mount the Met operation.  As I embarked upon a new career writing and commenting I looked at the case a little, sufficiently enough to provide sensible assistance to the media when they asked me.  This was, though, always around police procedures and techniques.  Nobody ever asked me what I thought might have happened, only what the police were doing, why and what they might do next.

Last year Sky asked me to a meeting to discuss what a ten-year anniversary film might achieve.  I explained that I would be willing to take part but that my position was one where I was as sceptical of the accepted (abduction) theory as I was of any other. I said I would also like to make the point that Operation Grange was so restricted from the start as to be destined to fail.  In support of this I presented the original Grange terms of reference and told them of the advice I had received in the phone call.

To their credit (and, actually, to my surprise) they accepted that this was a valid point of view to hold and one which should be presented in their film.  Within the limitations and constraints of legal matters, the editing process and the need to present a rounded story, I think the Sky film was pretty good.  It is certainly the most balanced mainstream report I have seen and one with which I am entirely happy to be associated.  I also think it represented my views well.

I am neither an anti nor a pro – of the McCanns or the media or the police.  I felt, feel indeed, that the limitations which seem to have been imposed on Operation Grange were worthy of being publicised and would inform the debate.  I am not necessarily advocating that it be started afresh, just that it is understood what it was and what it tried to do.

I do though think that a point worthy of reinforcing is that a proper, conclusive and reasoned elimination or implication of Kate and Gerry McCann would have been in everyone's interest, most of all theirs.  That would have been my first objective had I been leading Operation Grange and so that is the biggest issue I have with how that investigation proceeded.  To eliminate or implicate those closest to the child in this type of case is not only the documented best investigative practice but is common sense.  Had Grange done this then everything would be a lot clearer. I have no idea why this was not done but I am satisfied on what has been said by the Met and what is available that it was not.

I want to continue to raise and discuss issues around Madeleine’s disappearance when it is appropriate to do so.  I am mindful that, to maintain credibility and access to meaningful platforms that I will need to do so in a considered, reasoned and evidenced way. If I don't offer support to theories and assumptions it doesn't mean I don't understand or believe them, just that I don't think it is appropriate to adopt them or comment upon them at the moment.

Finally a paragraph on me. I am nowhere near naïve enough to have thought that I could become involved in this debate without suffering some abuse and denigration. While it is water from a duck’s back I won't expose myself to it unnecessarily.  Hence I won't take part in discussions on the various forums and I am likely to block those on Twitter who can’t be reasonable and polite.  Like us all I am far from perfect but I did give many years of service to the community – as do thousands of others – and during that time I was lucky enough to achieve some results of which I will always be proud. My expertise and reputation is well-regarded by the media and I have no need to raise my profile; I turn away as much media work as I accept.  I am not writing a book on Madeleine McCann and I have no motivation other than that which has been with me for many, many years – to get to the truth.  So I will continue to tweet about the case ( @colinsutton ) and when people raise good questions I will try to respond quickly.

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Posted by Colin Sutton at 12:01

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Post by polyenne 09.05.17 21:19

I am not surprised by any of Colin's comments, hey sets out his stall very well.
Truth be known, I'm actually heartened by his words, he appears to take a considered view and, taking him at his word, no doubt he is/has been viewing this, and other forums, to seek alternative facts and views to enable him to gain perhaps a deeper insight.

That can only be a good thing and he is decent enough to suggest that he will respond speedily to sensible questions.

I look forward to his input as I do with many other posters on this forum
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Post by Jill Havern 09.05.17 21:29

Thank you Colin thumbsup

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Post by pennylane 09.05.17 22:40

Thank you Colin Sutton, for explaining yourself so eloquently! roses

I do hope Mr Sutton can find time in the near future to delve much deeper into this case, and I take it on board that he needs to adhere to evidence and steer clear of speculation if he is to be successful in accessing meaningful platforms.  I am very much looking forward to his input and expertise.
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Post by Cheshire Cat 10.05.17 8:07

pennylane wrote:Thank you Colin Sutton, for explaining yourself so eloquently! roses

I do hope Mr Sutton can find time in the near future to delve much deeper into this case, and I take it on board that he needs to adhere to evidence and steer clear of speculation if he is to be successful in accessing meaningful platforms.  I am very much looking forward to his input and expertise.
Yes, I agree with you Pennylane. An officer and a gentleman. Thank you Colin.
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Post by pennylane 10.05.17 9:25

Cheshire Cat wrote:
pennylane wrote:Thank you Colin Sutton, for explaining yourself so eloquently! roses

I do hope Mr Sutton can find time in the near future to delve much deeper into this case, and I take it on board that he needs to adhere to evidence and steer clear of speculation if he is to be successful in accessing meaningful platforms.  I am very much looking forward to his input and expertise.
Yes, I agree with you Pennylane. An officer and a gentleman. Thank you Colin.

Amen!  Mr Sutton has truth and justice firmly in his DNA, just as Goncalo Amaral has.
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Post by Liz Eagles 10.05.17 9:32

Have  I got this right? Colin Sutton is now being lauded as a hero?

Please enlighten me as to why.

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