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Alan Vinnicombe (the Armchair Detective)  is with Colin Sutton Mm11

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The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
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Alan Vinnicombe (the Armchair Detective)  is with Colin Sutton Mm11

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Alan Vinnicombe (the Armchair Detective) is with Colin Sutton

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Post by Jill Havern 16.07.18 20:22

Alan Vinnicombe (the Armchair Detective)  is with Colin Sutton 216

Posted on CMOMM facebook group

Alan Vinnicombe is with Colin Sutton.
2 hrs

I used to write as well from the book that can never be published Blameless or Shameless ,
Colin Sutton, UK's G.A [25th august 2017]
Well, he's no fool he's on a mission and has a plan!
This intelligent man began his quest to free the police of political interference back in Jan. Clearly annoyed by not getting the Grange job that no doubt he could have cracked - apart from the fact he refused political interference that comes with all big inquiries. Judging by his record he would have sorted it. I think since then he hatched a plan to help his colleagues who hate lying for the government.
Speaking in January, Mr Sutton said: “I think that the police service has been under all sorts of attacks in terms of political imperatives. To have a PCC who is beholden to the Government is unhealthy, in my opinion.

[Police Complaints Commission, he's on one against the govenment]
He withdraws from a great job recently, Mr Sutton had been one of five candidates for Suffolk police and crime commissioner. The ex-detective chief inspector, known as the man responsible for the capture of notorious murderer Levi Bellfield, was due to stand as an independent candidate in the election on May 5. The 55-year-old said: “I have got other things that would preclude me from doing the job, and on reflection, I would not really have the time to do it full-time if elected'', cited other commitments as the reason for his decision to withdraw his name from the ballot.
[There's no point after the Sky documentary. He seems to know he is going to have a lot of media work coming? And he has a fight that would conflict].

Lucky for us he has been speaking on Jill Havern’s forum, he was criticised last week for his piece in the mirror and his words on the rubbish Aussie documentary, but, he is learning that the MSM is a double edged sword. Yes it gets your views out there but the editor can slant your words, take them out of context and in the end plain misrepresent. With the McCann's case people are afraid to talk about it in case they are misquoted for the manipulation of public opinion designed to fit political agendas. It seems he's been misquoted. Here is what he has said as posted on Facebook by Jill Havern, 'Colin has just posted this on the forum which suggests he was misrepresented by the Daily Mirror'
TARGETED KIDNAP BY A TRAFFICKING GANG

''This is the most likely scenario once those closely linked to Madeleine have been ruled out."
That is an important part of the quoted piece to keep in mind.
My view, as I gave to The Mirror, is that they have not been ruled out, either by the PJ or Op. Grange. However, the editorial slant given to what I said to the reporter has pushed this to the very back of the piece.
He really said the parents are the most likely suspects, they changed it to ‘if the parents were ruled out the case, then what’?
Which is a totally different question, slippery reporters! He went on to say ''I have taken part in three pieces for the 10-year anniversary - the Mirror, the Australian TV film and the Sky TV film.'' The Australians never told me they had 'new evidence', I don't know what this is but I was asked about police procedures in these cases and not asked to give an opinion as to what actually happened.
[He WAS SO RIGHT sky was balanced]

The Sky film will be, I hope, a much more balanced piece than anything else in the mainstream media. I am sure you will have a view once you see it -as will I, as once again it has to go through an editing process, but in what I have recorded I have tried to deal with some of the inconsistencies, to point out that the Portuguese investigation was nowhere near as bad as it is painted, that the McCanns have never been eliminated and that Grange was too restricted either to do this or to have a meaningful impact on the case. I am sceptical about abduction being the only valid scenario and will continue to be so. In taking that view in the mainstream media, one is subject to legal and editorial restrictions which of course do not exist on a forum.

[WOW, MY HERO HE EVEN WORKED IT OUT BEFORE. His next words are golden!]
''My choice, therefore, is either to give up and not take part or to do so and try to push the boundaries each time so that the concept of alternative theories can gradually be published more widely. I chose the latter.''
[HE WANTS TO BE THE ONE TO SAY THE TRUTH TO INSPIRE OTHERS]
'
'I am cross that The Mirror piece has been adjusted so much that gives precedence to a hypothesis which I don't feel is the most likely. It is the first time I have done this sort of work for that paper and this is an outcome which has not happened when working for others''. ''No newspaper or TV company has ever told me what conclusion I should come to and if they did I would run a mile''. ''Once I have told them what I think, though, I am at their mercy as to what they use and do not use''. ''I will remain interested in this case, remain a member of this forum and will be happy, after the Sky film airs, to take part in discussions with members of the forum on the case''.
[WE NEED TO LINK UP TO THIS SOMEHOW]

''However - and I am no snowflake, believe me - I will not do so if people think it is acceptable to direct abuse towards me for what I believe or what I do. I promise I will be polite and reasoned and I expect that in return. That is reasonable is it not?;;
[Yes, sir, it stays on a closed group and you will receive utmost respect, we would love to hear your views]
Silent P in police
Ok it's time to sum up, the unassuming man of the people who is trying to end the torture beyond poor Maddie, back in time thought Saville, Hillsborough way back to Jeremy Thorpe, Cyril Smith, Ted Heath and others in between, all investigated by policeman, who took the shilling from the establishment, files lost, pressure used to stop dissenters in the public, witnesses and even their own officers. I'm not telling you a theory, Colin Sutton has told you if you take the job politics tie your hands of even the best! We know he's right! The everyday people of Liverpool laid bare the cover up of the 96. The brave souls of the Liverpool fans underestimated by the police and politicians alike, they never gave up, brought down the lies and in the end coppers on their knees, beaten into admitting they lied and changed evidence for the silent P running the police [politics] What? There’s no silent P in policing? Oh there is as Mr Sutton has told us. It called politics the silent unseen unheard P in the word police, yes the P is there but it, not a real one it's a HOSTAGE controlled by politicians. You want a big job? Here's this big investigation but you can't interview the McCanns or even their friends, it's a no go area. Give the media info that you have leads, look busy, then in years to come park the whole thing in a siding marked ''We tried its a mystery'', like they did with so many other famous cases. The untouchables down the years laugh at us safe in the knowledge politics trump policing every time - until now - one brave proven top copper has stood up and said to his friends I’m out of it now, but I'm going to expose this travesty of the silent P.
[I'd wager he's thinking ''I'm going to put the P back into policing'']

[Pterodactyls were flying reptiles, now extinct. Silent letters are letters that you can't hear when you say the word, but that are there when you write the word, in other words, you can see it, but Mr REDWOOD YOU NEVER DARED TO SAY IT. You can see the McCanns are suspects but don't ever say it, there's a good boy, off you go with your pension. If you’re a very good boy you get a knighthood. Well to be fair they all do, the UK top cops. It’s a given, but I ask the ones below how many of you know people were protected by the silent P?
IMO all of you and that's where we are right now in our missing person case. The home secretary rules you, the one who started Grange, by the way was Teresa May, ring any bells?

1945 1953 Sir Harold Scott GCVO, KCB, KBE
1953 1958 Sir John Nott-Bower KCVO, KPM
1958 1968 Sir Joseph Simpson KBE, KPFSM
1968 1972 Sir John Waldron KCVO
1972 1977 Sir Robert Mark GBE, QPM
1977 1982 Sir David McNee QPM
1982 1987 Sir Kenneth Newman GBE, QPM
1987 1993 Sir Peter Imbert QPM
1993 2000 Sir Paul Condon QPM
2000 2005 Sir John Stevens QPM
2005 2008 Sir Ian Blair QPM
2009 2011 Sir Paul Stephenson QPM
2011 2017 Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe
2017 Cressida Dick

On the other hand, who warned the intrepid Coilin Sutton, you’re next on a need to know basis!
This man is better than all the Sirs. He said no! PLAIN OLD COLIN SUTTON and he can be proud of it!
[Source East Suffolk's Times and Jill Havern]

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Post by Tony Bennett 16.07.18 22:19

Reminder of my observations on that segment of that underwhelming Madeleine McCann film by Ms Sonia Poulton in which she interviewed the afore-mentioned Colin Sutton:

===========

Quote:


SECTION H    COLIN SUTTON SAYS: ‘LET’S IRON OUT THE INCONSISTENCIES’, HELP THE MCCANNS, AND ‘SQUASH THE RUMOUR-MONGERS AND THE TITTLE TATTLE’

Colin Sutton is introduced as a ‘distinguished’ ex-Met Police Officer who is credited with solving the murder of Milly Dowler by Levi Bellfield.   

We know him on CMOMM as the detective who appeared on TV and in the media at the time of the 10th anniversary of Madeleine’s disappearance and made a series of controversial remarks. He briefly popped up on CMOMM as a member, no-one really knows why.

One of Sutton controversial remarks was that, eight years ago, when a Review of the case was being considered by the Met Police and the government, he had been suggested as a possible co-ordinator of any such Review. But, he had said, a ‘very senior’ Met Police Officer, who was also friend of his, had told him not to as “You won’t be able to go where you might want to go in your investigation”. [25.10-25.55]

Second, he was asked on TV for his professional opinion on what happened to Madeleine McCann. He volunteered that he thought Madeleine may have been trafficked by gypsies.     

Colin Sutton has several appearances in the second half of Sonia Poulton’s film.

At 31.10 he says: “I don’t understand the logic” of Operation Grange’s remit, adding that “according to the Portuguese Police [and he is right about this],  the McCanns were not eliminated from the investigation”.

He adds that the police must have taken a decision in the very early days to treat this as an abduction.

Sonia Poulton then moves on [33.35] to talk about “the lack of a police reconstruction”, which she regards as highly significant. She notes that the McCanns and their friends refused to take part in one during the months after Madeleine was reported missing, adding [33.55-34.10]: “As with so much of this case, these actions appear unprecedented…How could official suspects…guide aspects of the investigation? 

We then get David Machin coming in again stating: “Anomalies and discrepancies are not necessarily untruths, they’re just a consequence of people’s perceptions when they witness something”.

This appears to be introduced by Sonia Poulton in order to minimise the importance of all the discrepancies and outright contradictions in the case, about which she says nothing in the whole documentary apart from the relatively minor issue of where Jane Tanner, Gerry McCann and Jez Wilkins were standing when Jane Tanner (allegedly) saw the abductor.

At 35.30 Sonia Poulton refers to the “clear disparities on that fateful night”. The use of the term ‘fateful night’ once again gets us looking at Thursday 3 May instead of another day.

She added: “Jane Tanner’s e-fit of a man became the primary efit for five years until Operation Grange eliminated Jane Tanner’s sighting”[37.00-37.06].

She says: “There has been no reconstruction yet [apart from the 2009 2nd-year anniversary documentary which included a reconstruction performed by the McCanns and some of their friends]” [37.20]

The Sutton comes on again and states (he is right): “There are some pretty major inconsistencies of fact in the witness statements that we see” [37.30]

He adds: There are inconsistences which I’d like to iron out”. [38.08]

Let us dwell for a moment on his choice of phrase: ‘To iron out’. He is treating all the huge numbers of changes of story and outright contradictions in the case as mere little creases that can be easily ‘ironed out’.

He could for example, have said: “Let’s have a look at these major changes of story and contradictions and see where they lead”. But, no. To Sutton they are all mere ‘inconsistencies…to be ironed out’. [38.09]  He floats the idea of a filmed reconstruction [38.16] 

Sonia Poulton: “Retired detective Colin Sutton is in no doubt about what should happen with the remaining money [in Operation Grange’s budget]”: [42.40-42.48]

Colin Sutton: “The - the starting point has got to be back at Ground Zero…you know, this is when the report was made…” [42.35-42.50]

[an uncanny echo here of DCI Redwood’s comment back on Crimewatch in 2013: “Primarily what we sought to do from the beginning is to try and draw everything back to – to zero, if you like, try and sort of take everything back to the beginning – and then  re-analyse and re-assess everything – accepting nothing”].

Colin Sutton continued: “...These were the last people to see her…This is what they say…These are the people close to her…Let’s eliminate those…Lets’ get them out of the way. And that would serve everybody – you know, that would be, that would be, in the interests of both, tuh, the general public, but also Kate and Gerry McCann, because, there’s, there’s an awful lot of, tattle, you know, tittle tattle on the internet, and rumours, and, you know, this, this is a case that has aroused so many opinions, and quite strong opinions in some cases, er, if you comprehensively, conclusively, forensically eliminate Kate and Gerry McCann, and their friends from any involvement, then that squashes almost all of that rumour mill…That takes it all away [42.55 - 43.50]

____________________

Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by Guest 17.07.18 15:25

It is in the McCann's best interests to answer every question and address every doubt.

If I was an innocent parent I would do everything to get people on my side.

The McCanns have never done that.

They just engaged using big money to shut people up.

Surely their friends, family and work colleges must see that? Do they never say anything to them?
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Post by Jill Havern 18.07.18 11:12

Alan Vinnicombe‎ 

Following the interest in Colin Sutton here are some private conservations with him as to why his revelation took so long to bubble to the surface that he was to be offered Operation Grange as he was copping a lot of stick about it he kindly allowed me to make it public his words .......
Colin Sutton from the horse's mouth,on 13.11.17 22:19
Message from ....
Colin Sutton former YT, DD, JL, NH, NI, 1HQ, JC, SCD1 at Met Police.

Colin was a Senior Investigating Officer in the Metropolitan Police from 2003 -2011, I was pleasantly surprised when retired Met detective Colin Sutton commented recently and gave his thoughts on my post about Operation Grange, to get information from the horse's mouth, not what he said to MSM. my point was that the review was launched in May 2011 the year he retired I wondered how he could have taken the job anyway ?

"I said I would also like to make the point that Operation Grange was so restricted from the start as to be destined to fail."

"On Sunday 9th May 2010 the News of the World published a story which suggested that the Met was going to reinvestigate Madeleine’s disappearance and that I would be asked to lead it. This was news to me on both counts. Nobody from the Met had, or indeed ever did, make such a request of me.

The only official news I heard about the reinvestigation was a week or two later when I heard that the idea of such a reinvestigation had been shelved for the time being in the wake of the change of Government.
You will recall the note by former Chief Secretary to the Treasury Liam Byrne, apologising to his successor that there was no money left. The rumour in the Met was that, unless and until the Government were prepared to fund it, we would not undertake such an expensive operation which, as desirable as it might have been, was not really something on which Londoners should see their Council Tax spent.

However, before this, just a few days after the NotW story I did receive a call from a senior officer in the Met whom I knew quite well. This officer told me I would do better to avoid the McCann investigation if it did happen,"

[ SO HE WAS CONSIDERED IN MAY 2010 over a year before he left .
I spoke with him and can vouch for the following....
I pointed out it was wrong not to begin with interviewing the inner circle first (tapas9) choosing instead to run around chasing shadows, bit of a shock as he doesn't seem to write replies to the MM forums.
I thought like many he was maybe slightly pushed into disclosing that the remit was and still is not to interview the Tapas 9, here's his reply....
''Much of this post makes sense Alan.
A couple of things I would add to it, nobody told me to say or not say anything I promise, as always I say it how I see it''.

He went on to tell us he saw the secret report that Sky uncovered and interesting that the combined UK police view after only 4 days was already concluded .........

''And I saw the copy of the report. To me, a very interesting thing was when the Gold Group was formed on 8th May 2007 their terms of reference described the incident as an abduction. Which might have been careless use of language or might have shown a mindset at that early stage''.

Some will wonder about his motives, personally, I believe the new revelations he has told me today. It's not in the Sun or on Sky, only you here on our group have this information direct from Colin himself.

I wrote...
"Hi Colin. Sorry to trouble you but a lot of the members are asking me why you waited for the 10-year Sky programme to tell us the Grange remit and not before?"
Colin Sutton...
''It wasn’t for lack of trying. I had mentioned it to journalists from many different outlets but nobody was prepared to use it''
So you see he had the same problem as us, no one would touch anything anti-McCann. Now a lot of you that have written letters and emails know that sentiment only too well.
I asked Colin how he manages to, at last, get it to the public attention after getting no joy for years?
C.S. "Until Sky asked me if I had an idea for a new angle to explore for the anniversary."
So there you are Sky were looking for something new to say and they got it thanks to CS!
Finally, Colin, you were not coerced in any way to release the remit?
C.S. "Nobody told me to say it!''

There you are, that's what he told me directly. I hope it's useful to you.
Interesting that CS can see the mindset is in place before proper police procedures have been implemented.

So you ask what is the Gold Group? that Colin mentions
The Madeleine McCann co-ordinating group set up after 8th May 2007 under the Chairmanship of Leicestershire Constabulary's Head, Mr Matt Baggott, former head of Leicestershire Police at the time Madeleine McCann was reported missing.

Mr Baggott reported to the Leverson inquiry ''On 8 May 2007 Leicestershire Constabulary was asked to coordinate the UK response to assist the Portuguese enquiry on behalf of the UK Government and Association of Chief Police Officers. The Gold Strategy set on this date established that it was a Portuguese-led enquiry and that all actions would comply with requirements of Portuguese law including their Judicial Secrecy Act.

Due to the unprecedented media interest in the UK, a co-ordination group was set up on behalf of law enforcement agencies and government departments to coordinate the media interaction and ensure that a consistent stance was taken. This co-orders group was chaired by the Head of Corporate Communications from Leicestershire Constabulary.

That group has continued to meet as required since 2007. Due to the thirst for information from the media, every individual working in Leicestershire supporting the police investigation signed a confidentiality agreement.

"Messages were also disseminated to all staff to make them aware that even private conversations with friends could be reported on in the media."

The confidentiality agreement was something that was put together by the Gold group who were running the enquiry as part of the U.K. effort.
The gold formed after just 4 days at enormous cost, for a child that could turn up at anytime, this was almost war footing and the main aim was it seems a blanket of silence, from a constable to dog handlers to chief constables and you wonder why there are no interviews in the MSM unless sanctioned as in favour of the McCanns?
supporting the police investigation signed a confidentiality agreement is why the silence is deafening !
The coded message as I see it, we are never going to get both sides of the case........................................ 

***Disclaimer***
"I have Colin Sutton's permission to share this conversation/ interview, even though it was conducted privately." also included snips from his blog

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Post by Guest 18.07.18 12:05

How many other abductions have ever had a "Gold Group" set up within 4 days?

Something very deep concerning the establishment is going on here.
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Post by sar 18.07.18 12:12

''And I saw the copy of the report. To me, a very interesting thing was when the Gold Group was formed on 8th May 2007 their terms of reference described the incident as an abduction. Which might have been careless use of language or might have shown a mindset at that early stage''.
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Post by Verdi 18.07.18 12:45

Strategic Debrief Operation Task:  Police Assistance to Criminal Investigations Abroad


http://library.college.police.uk/docs/npia/Strategic-debrief-operation-task-2009.pdf#page=4&zoom=110,-163,443

Alan Vinnicombe (the Armchair Detective)  is with Colin Sutton F9641511

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Post by Jill Havern 18.07.18 13:54

Colin joined this forum and said he would answer questions so I started a thread for him and people asked him questions...

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t13972-questions-thread-for-member-ex-met-police-colin-sutton-oatlandish

You won't find any answers though.

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Post by Liz Eagles 18.07.18 20:46

Colin is a slippery eel aint he
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Post by Jill Havern 24.07.18 9:20



The Armchair Detective v The McCanns

#13, McCanns UK TRUTH within the LIE [part 1]

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Post by Jill Havern 31.07.18 14:28




Armchair Detective vs the McCanns
Published on Jul 31, 2018


There are two main questions, why did so many health professionals turn up in Praia, that week? and why the massive world incident response?

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Post by Jill Havern 07.08.18 8:01



Alan Vinnicombe (the Armchair Detective)  is with Colin Sutton ACSszfGYk33UPzgadGuQodOuKekdCqsONCrSGXYF8Q=s48-mo-c-c0xffffffff-rj-k-no
Armchair Detective vs the McCanns
Published on Aug 6, 2018
We can count real friends on one hand, the McCanns have hundreds of the great and good 100% on their side, can the police really work "Without fear or favour" ?

Alan Vinnicombe shared a post.
56 mins
Please watch this film as you need to know the background, to why Operation Grange is not fit for purpose, part 2 will show the people at the core of it make the investigation a total sham.

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Post by dartinghero 07.08.18 16:34

BlueBag wrote:How many other abductions have ever had a "Gold Group" set up within 4 days?

Something very deep concerning the establishment is going on here.

Not just any old abduction - an abduction in another country where they have no remit!
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