"WE" were 'DUPED'!

by jeanmonroe 22.06.16 12:24

After the verdict, yesterday, about GORGEOUS Ellie Butler, (and i'm NOT a 'paedo' (paedoess?) for saying THAT, so the ol' Bill, needn't waste their time to pay me a 'visit!) we have all the 'video's/interviews' from national TV 'programmes' featuring that 'prick' Ben Butler and his 'missus'

This 'prick' went to that other 'prick' Max Clifford for 'publicity' (remind me, WHERE is Max Clifford right now!)

Matthew Wright, just now, saying, 'WE were all DUPED by Butler'

Schofield saying 'WE were all DUPED by Butler'

EH and RL on 'this morning' gave the 'prick' airtime and the 'late' DR 'agreed' with Butler HE had been 'treated' appallingly! (DUPED!)

Ah, all the poor 'celeb' 'presenters' were all 'DUPED' by a manipulative CON MAN 'PRICK'!

NOT all people were duped though, were they?

Eliie's grandfather and grandmother were NOT 'duped'!

But who was ever going to 'listen' to them?

NO ONE! THAT'S WHO, FCUKING NO ONE!

Certainly NOT 'judge' HOGG!

Who, incidentally, 'did a runner and retired', a year EARLY, just BEFORE Butler's 'trial' started.

I am so 'cynical' ain't i, but, 'strangely', I don't EVER get 'duped' by people who 'tell' me something, without actually 'doing' my OWN erm, 'research' about what i am 'told'.

If, IF, the McCan'ts ARE 'found to have had involvement' in their daughter's 'disappearance' i'm fully prepared to 'hear' PS/HW/EH/RL/LK/FP Home Secretaries, Prime and former Prime Ministers, Police Commissioners, Senior Cops, stating on TV 'sofas/studios'.....'WE WERE ALL DUPED!' (Just as WE were 'all duped' by JS/CS/SH/RH/MC etc.,)

Well, just DON'T 'include' ME, and many 'others', (who CAN actually 'think' for themselves) in the 'ALL' duped!

And breathe................

jta: Should i 'apologise' for my use of 'rich language'? Hmmm.....Let me 'think'.................NAHHH!

by jeanmonroe 22.06.16 12:45

"WE" were 'DUPED'! 3449D82D00000578-3565326-image-m-6_1463730561394

"THEY DIDN'T 'FOOL' US, NOT FOR A SINGLE SECOND, DID THEY, RUTH?"

"WE" were 'DUPED'! 3449D85000000578-3565326-image-m-2_1463729583273

JENNIE GRAY'S.......'DUPER'S'.... 'DELIGHT'!

by petunia 22.06.16 12:55

The stay at home dad who didn't work,how the hell could he afford Max Clifford? unless of course he got paid for parking he lazy ass on TV studio sofas to spin his pack of lies. I hope he rots in hell

by jeanmonroe 22.06.16 12:55

GORGEOUS ELLIE!

by jeanmonroe 22.06.16 12:57

petunia wrote:The stay at home dad who didn't work,how the hell could he afford Max Clifford? unless of course he got paid for parking he lazy ass on TV studio sofas to spin his pack of lies. I hope he rots in hell

Oh, believe me, Butler will be 'paid' alright. winkwink

by plebgate 22.06.16 12:59

That duper's delight photo - sickening.

by willowthewisp 22.06.16 13:32

Hi Jeanmonroe,I had posted earlier about the media seemingly not covering the death of six year old Ellie Butler and the comparison of exposure to what would have been Jo Cox's 42nd Birthday and references to Remain campaign trying to capitalise on her death,dodgy Dave?
One an MP and one a very young girl with a good life ahead of them but both taken away from people who cared for them, may they both Rest In Peace.

by Doug D 22.06.16 13:36

“Nothing to do with me guv”

She can try and hide under a couple of poncy hats, but refuses to apologise. Sickening.

Judge who sent Ellie Butler back to the father who killed her REFUSES to apologise saying merely 'It's not personal'

•   Butler previously lost custody of Ellie after being convicted of shaking her
•   But, after conviction overturned, she was sent back to live with him again
•   Family judge said he was 'exonerated', making him difficult to monitor
•   Less than a year after Ellie was sent back to him, she had been murdered
•   A serious case review published today found the judge's decision hindered authorities from intervening
•   Dame Mary Hogg refuses to say sorry, simply saying: 'It's not personal'
•
By RICHARD SPILLETT and STEPH COCKROFT FOR MAINLINE

PUBLISHED: 07:41, 22 June 2016 | UPDATED: 10:44, 22 June 2016

The family court judge who was told she'd 'have blood on her hands' when she returned Ellie Butler to her murderous father has failed to apologise, simply saying: 'It's not personal'.
Dame Mary Hogg dismissed evidence of domestic abuse, glossed over convictions for violence and ignored social services' pleas to allow Ben Butler and Jennie Gray to regain custody of their little girl.
Ellie had been taken away from her parents when Butler was found guilty of violently shaking her when she was just seven weeks old. But, after Butler's conviction was quashed, the judge 'exonerated' him and allowed Ellie to be returned to his care.
Even as she sanctioned the order, Ellie's maternal grandfather Neal, who had been looking after her, warned the judge would have 'blood on her hands' - a chilling prediction which came true just 11 months later.

Yesterday a serious case review published in the hours after Butler's conviction found the judge's decision hindered authorities from intervening and potentially saving Ellie's life.
But asked whether she felt responsible for the little girl's death, Dame Mary - herself a mother - refused to say sorry. She merely replied: 'It's not personal.'
The 68-year-old then drove away without giving any more comment, according to the Daily Mirror.
Yesterday, Butler was jailed for a minimum of 23 years after murdering Ellie in a fit of rage at their home in Sutton, south London.
His partner and Ellie's mother, Jennie Gray, was jailed for 42 months after admitting helping to cover up the killing and being found guilty of child cruelty.

After the verdicts, Mrs Justice Hogg came in for strong criticism, with some questioning how Butler - who spent three-and-a-half months in jail after the conviction - had effectively been given a carte blanche to beat and abuse his little girl.
In an extraordinary judgement in 2012, family judge Mrs Justice Hogg had accepted the couple's version of events and went even further than appeal judges by declaring Butler 'exonerated'.
In a court order which can be reported for the first time today, the family judge also took the astonishing step of demanding that independent social workers be brought in and Sutton council, which had been involved with Ellie, be removed from the case.
Her decision came despite Butler's previous convictions for attempted robbery, witness intimidation and assault and the fact that the couple had repeatedly lied to authorities during care proceedings.

"WE" were 'DUPED'! 3583A48B00000578-3600545-image-m-10_1466520374237

"WE" were 'DUPED'! 3583A48B00000578-3600545-image-m-10_1466520374237

Dame Mary Hogg, near her home in central London today. She was criticised in a serious case review

In light of Ellie's subsequent death, Mrs Justice Hogg's finding that the injuries which Ellie first suffered were 'purely accidental' appears all the more concerning.
The history of the tragic case can now be reported after Butler was jailed for life for murder following the eight-week trial.

It can also be revealed that Gray's father Neal even warned the judge she would have 'blood on your hands' as she sanctioned the return of little Ellie to Butler's care.
Ellie had been happy with her loving grandparents, Neal and Linda, who spent thousands of pounds battling to keep her in their care and did not want to give her up.

A serious case review into Ellie's death stated: 'When invited to make a statement near the end of the case, [the grandfather had spoken to the court in the strongest of terms about the risks to [Ellie], warning the court 'that they may have blood on their hands'.
Tragic Ellie was then sent into a 'house of horrors' where Butler used violence to vent his anger at becoming a house husband and stay-at-home father.
In the judgement which returned Ellie to Butler's care, the judge said: 'I do not blame him for causing injury to Ellie, while I accept that he may have done so with all good intention to help her.
'I hope everyone will accept that I do not attach any culpability to him, and that in my judgment he is exonerated from causing her any inflicted injury.'
She added that the convictions had been 'assault on adults, not on children'.
She said: 'I accept that he can act out of frustration but that does not necessarily mean he will lose control of his temper however fleetingly towards his baby daughter.'
She added: 'All professionals are to proceed on the basis that neither parent poses any physical risk [to Ellie].'

In a surprise move, Mrs Justice Hogg also ordered Sutton council to write a letter to tell police, schools and doctors to 'wipe the slate clean' for the family.

She found that any continued contact with Sutton council would be 'doomed to failure' and handed the case over to independent social workers from an organisation called Services For Children (S4C).

The ruling had the affect that social workers who had experience of the case were no longer involved with Ellie and authorities would have needed new reports of violence against her to begin fresh care proceedings.
It is understood Services For Children only had contact with Ellie for six months until March 2013.

A source close to the case said the 'extremely unusual' order was 'a recipe for disaster'.
'What this had the effect of was putting all of the power in Ben Butler's hands,' said the source.
'He's got everything. He's got the judgement when he's been formally exonerated.
'Now he's got a letter to use against agencies - all the agencies which are now told to wipe the record clear.'
The local authority even took legal advice over the judgement but were told it was so emphatic there were no grounds for appeal.
It also emerged Butler and Gray had lied to the authorities about their continuing relationship and tried to pretend he was not the father of Ellie's younger sibling.
In a bizarre episode, a dodgy DNA test found the children were half-siblings and Butler and Gray continued the deception in Hogg's court.
Hogg also raised concerns over Gray missing appointments to see her daughter.
But she said: 'They have carried an intolerable burden for the last five-and-a-half years. They have lost one child.
'To them the father was unjustly accused, findings made, tried, convicted, and his conviction quashed; and their child wrongly removed from them following the findings.
'He has been treated and looked upon as a child abuser: they have felt persecuted and pried upon by social workers.
'They have not felt free from outside pressure, and they have feared they would lose [the younger sibling].
'Now they have been unburdened from the shadow of findings against them. They have unburdened much of themselves to me, admitted concealment and secrecy, and their determination to recover [the younger sibling].'

A Serious Case Review of Ellie's case is due to be published today after independent experts looked at the impact of the controversial court order and the work of the independent social workers.
Services for Children is a company run by two experts in dealing with children in the care system.
The firm's website states that it charges up to £75-an-hour and has worked for councils in Reading, West Berkshire, Wokingham, Windsor and Maidenhead, Bracknell Forest, Slough and Oxford.
A spokesman for S4C said: 'Our work was governed by letters of instruction approved by all parties and sanctioned by the court. We were not acting in any other capacity.

'Since Ellie's death and throughout the recent trial we have often thought of the impact of Ellie's death on members of her family. We recognise the sorrow they must have experienced in the time that has elapsed.'
Dame Mary Hogg, formerly Mrs Justice Hogg, is the daughter of former Lord Chancellor Lord Hailsham and she is the sister of former agriculture minister Douglas Hogg.
A mother herself, she built a career ruling on care cases and in 2000 decided two foster parents who ran away with two children over fears they were going to be moved should still be allowed to adopt them.
She hung up her robes after spending more than 20 years in the Family Court Division weeks before the start of Butler's Old Bailey trial and a year before the statutory retirement age.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3653858/Judge-sent-Ellie-Butler-father-killed-REFUSES-apologise-saying-merely-s-not-personal.html

…………………………………………….

Interestingly Clarence has put up a blog on his new companies site:

How do companies get out of a reputational black hole when their backs are against the wall?

He’s talking about companies, but I think we know that his ‘expertise’ in these matters extends to personal cases also.

Snipped:

‘There are ways to be apologetic and, critically, to be sympathetic to a situation without admitting formal liability.

In the age of instant consumer opprobrium, the media consuming public want to see that you have a human face and actually give a damn.

With media operating 24/7 across all platforms, time zones and markets, the damage caused by reputational crises badly managed doesn’t die away, it merely gets posted online for posterity. So effective, rapid and open engagement with crafted key messaging has never been more relevant or necessary. ‘

http://www.jbp.co.uk/news/blog/how-do-companies-get-out-reputational-black-hole-when-their-backs-are-against-wall

She obviously hasn’t being paying for his advice then!

by jeanmonroe 22.06.16 14:03

Dame Mary Hog, near her home in central London today.

'There's just not enough hours, in one's day, for 'shopping', I wondered if Ellie would be 'shopping' today for her 'gorgeous princess, birthday dress', if i hadn't demanded she be sent her back to her 'wonderful, loving' parents, the HOG 'murmered'

WHAT A DISGUSTING 'HOG', that woman IS!

by Joss 22.06.16 14:04

jeanmonroe wrote:
petunia wrote:The stay at home dad who didn't work,how the hell could he afford Max Clifford? unless of course he got paid for parking he lazy ass on TV studio sofas to spin his pack of lies. I hope he rots in hell

Oh, believe me, Butler will be 'paid' alright.

Yeah they usually don't like child killers in prison. Hope they throw him into gen. pop. and he will get a taste of what he did to an innocent baby girl. He has a special place reserved in hell, so does his co conspirator, JG.
I won't even say what i think about that judge.
Rest in heaven beautiful little girl.

by Joss 22.06.16 14:06

jeanmonroe wrote:
Dame Mary Hog, near her home in central London today.

'There's just not enough hours, in one's day, for 'shopping', I wondered if Ellie would be 'shopping' today for her 'gorgeous princess, birthday dress', if i hadn't demanded she be sent her back to her 'wonderful, loving' parents, the HOG 'murmered'

WHAT A DISGUSTING 'HOG', that woman IS!

Exactly, God don't like that kind of ugly!

by HelenMeg 22.06.16 15:11

jeanmonroe wrote:After the verdict, yesterday, about GORGEOUS Ellie Butler, (and i'm NOT a 'paedo' (paedoess?) for saying THAT, so the ol' Bill, needn't waste their time to pay me a 'visit!) we have all the 'video's/interviews' from national TV 'programmes' featuring that 'prick' Ben Butler and his 'missus'

This 'prick' went to that other 'prick' Max Clifford for 'publicity' (remind me, WHERE is Max Clifford right now!)

Matthew Wright, just now, saying, 'WE were all DUPED by Butler'

Schofield saying 'WE were all DUPED by Butler'

EH and RL on 'this morning' gave the 'prick' airtime and the 'late' DR 'agreed' with Butler HE had been 'treated' appallingly! (DUPED!)

Ah, all the poor 'celeb' 'presenters' were all 'DUPED' by a manipulative CON MAN 'PRICK'!

NOT all people were duped though, were they?

Eliie's grandfather and grandmother were NOT 'duped'!

But who was ever going to 'listen' to them?

NO ONE! THAT'S WHO, FCUKING NO ONE!

Certainly NOT 'judge' HOGG!

Who, incidentally, 'did a runner and retired', a year EARLY, just BEFORE Butler's 'trial' started.

I am so 'cynical' ain't i, but, 'strangely', I don't EVER get 'duped' by people who 'tell' me something, without actually 'doing' my OWN erm, 'research' about what i am 'told'.

If, IF, the McCan'ts ARE 'found to have had involvement' in their daughter's 'disappearance' i'm fully prepared to 'hear' PS/HW/EH/RL/LK/FP Home Secretaries, Prime and former Prime Ministers, Police Commissioners, Senior Cops, stating on TV 'sofas/studios'.....'WE WERE ALL DUPED!' (Just as WE were 'all duped' by JS/CS/SH/RH etc.,)

Well, just DON'T 'include' ME, and many 'others', (who CAN actually 'think' for themselves) in the 'ALL' duped!

And breathe................

jta: Should i 'apologise' for my use of 'rich language'? Hmmm.....Let me 'think'.................NAHHH!

Yes it is a total disgrace.

The same for the likes of L Kelly. She has fawned over Mr and Mrs Mc Cann on her sofa and it is totally irresponsible for a lightweight presenter to do that whilst there is a case
in progress. At some point in the future she will show a shocked face when she claims how she was duped. She has NO RIGHT to do what she has done - it is nothing but naive, foolish and
shameful to show bias towards anyone in such a situation. I am appalled. However, yes - she is nothing but a pawn and does what she is told. But never can she ever claim to be a bona fide
journalist after this. I have no respect for that woman at all. None of them have any integrity.

by Ashwarya 22.06.16 21:23

Wasn't Dame Hogg also duped by the McCanns in the early days when she said they hadn't appeared in her court over some issue (not sure if it was to do with the Ward of Court or their demands for all the information held by Leics police) because they were on holiday, saying "And who could deserve a holiday more than them?" Shocked

by jeanmonroe 22.06.16 21:33

Thx to NBY.

I really hope that Justice Hogg will be made to answer for her decisions about this case.

A quote from her in 2008. Clearly she has never been the best judge (pun fully intended) of anyone's character.

Mrs Justice Hogg made an extraordinary plea to Madeleine's abductor to "show mercy and compassion" and reveal her whereabouts.
She said: "There is, of course, one person who knows what has happened to Madeleine and where she may be found."
"I ponder about that person – whether that person has a heart and might understand what it must be like for Madeleine to have been taken and secreted from her parents and siblings and those she loved and felt secure with."
"I ponder whether that person has a conscience or any feeling of guilt or remorse or even cares about the hurt that has been caused to an innocent little girl, and whether that person has a faith or belief and what explanation or justification they might give to God."
"I entreat that person, whoever they may be, to show mercy and compassion and come forward now and tell us where Madeleine is to be found."
"I hope she will be found soon, alive and well."
-----------------------------------

Yeah, just like Hog will have to' justify' her 'explanation' about 'demanding' little Ellie be 'returned', (or else!) to her 'killer' parents, to God!

Mrs Justice Hogg made an extraordinary plea 'to Madeleine's abductor'!

So, Hog was in no 'doubt', in 2008, that Madeleine 'WAS abducted'!

I 'wonder' WHO 'TOLD' her 'THAT'?

('answers' on the back of a stamp, plz)

Nuff 'said'!

by jeanmonroe 22.06.16 21:55

Hogg: "I ponder whether that person has a conscience or any feeling of guilt or remorse or even cares about the hurt that has been caused to an innocent little girl" .................(Ellie Butler. R.I.P)

Oh, the IRONY, of Hogg's 'words'!

by Guest 22.06.16 23:39

Ashwarya wrote:Wasn't Dame Hogg also duped by the McCanns in the early days when she said they hadn't appeared in her court over some issue (not sure if it was to do with the Ward of Court or their demands for all the information held by Leics police) because they were on holiday, saying "And who could deserve a holiday more than them?"

Close enough - the QC quoted was under her gavel..

Address by Tim Scott Q.C. to the High Court of Justice on 07 July 2008, In open court: International Family Law Group

Representation

Madeleine McCann is a ward of Court. She had her 5th birthday on 12 May 2008.

Gerry and Kate are not here as they are on holiday with their twins, Sean and Amelie. Who could deserve a holiday more after a period more traumatic than any family should have to cope with.

(Mrs Justice Hogg intervened: 'I did not expect to see them.')

As the world knows, Madeleine was abducted from an apartment at a resort in Praia Da Luz in Portugal on 03 May 2007. No one has ever been arrested or charged in connection with her abduction. Her whereabouts are completely unknown. There is no proof that she is alive, but there is not a scrap of evidence that she is not.

After the abduction Gerry and Kate McCann set in motion their own search with professional assistance. A Fund was set up to finance the search and many people, often those who could barely afford it, have given generously to that fund.

Read on..

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id130.html
----------

Possibly it's expected for a case presented by the 'International Family Law Group' to mollify a court hearing but I think this particular case is beyond the realms of acceptable. Over one year later and the QC speaks of Madeleine having her 5th birthday, then to add insult to injury by stating 'As the world knows, Madeleine was abducted...' A complete misrepresentation of the proceeds of the PJ investigation, totally ignoring the PJ investigation - utterly disgraceful conduct for a court of law. Innocent until proven guilty is one thing but that doesn't give a court of law carte-blanche to ignore an active police investigation.

I wouldn't trust a UK judge or court of law anymore than I'd trust Clarence Mitchell.

by Okeydokey 23.06.16 2:50

As I recall the despicable Hogg not only exonerated the McCanns as innocent PRIOR to the PJ releasing them from Arguido status...in her summing up (as reported by journalists) she claimed there was a solo perpetrator (this was before she had read anything from the PJ). How did she know there was a SOLO perpetrator? She didn't. Of course when the printed version of her judgement came out that "error" had been corrected and replaced with something anodyne.

Most important thing to remember with Hogg is she gave the McCanns the equivalent of what she gave the father in this case: an injunction that required ALL official agencies in the UK to co-operate with the McCanns fully and reveal relevant info to them. IIRC that was then the basis of the dispute with Leics Police later on (because they didn't want to hand over all their files).

Happy if anyone can improve on my memory.

by sar 23.06.16 8:08

Okeydokey wrote:As I recall the despicable Hogg not only exonerated the McCanns as innocent PRIOR to the PJ releasing them from Arguido status...in her summing up (as reported by journalists) she claimed there was a solo perpetrator (this was before she had read anything from the PJ). How did she know there was a SOLO perpetrator? She didn't. Of course when the printed version of her judgement came out that "error" had been corrected and replaced with something anodyne.

Most important thing to remember with Hogg is she gave the McCanns the equivalent of what she gave the father in this case: an injunction that required ALL official agencies in the UK to co-operate with the McCanns fully and reveal relevant info to them. IIRC that was then the basis of the dispute with Leics Police later on (because they didn't want to hand over all their files).

Happy if anyone can improve on my memory.

+1 Okeydokey, thanks

by Cmaryholmes 23.06.16 9:03

Seeing those pictures of 'Lady' Hogg shopping made me ponder that putting an expensive hat on a pig doesn't make it beautiful it just looks ridiculous. Will this woman sacrifice any of her, no doubt, generous pension package to express her deep remorse and acceptance of at least some responsibility for her woeful failure to protect a little girl ? ......thought not.

by Roxyroo 23.06.16 11:20

Joss wrote:
jeanmonroe wrote:
petunia wrote:The stay at home dad who didn't work,how the hell could he afford Max Clifford? unless of course he got paid for parking he lazy ass on TV studio sofas to spin his pack of lies. I hope he rots in hell

Oh, believe me, Butler will be 'paid' alright.
Yeah they usually don't like child killers in prison. Hope they throw him into gen. pop. and he will get a taste of what he did to an innocent baby girl. He has a special place reserved in hell, so does his co conspirator, JG.
I won't even say what i think about that judge.
Rest in heaven beautiful little girl.

The prisons are full to the brim of child sex offenders and not just men, do u really think they get that hard a time? I know that in the women's nicks they don't bat an eyelid about them, I was shocked wen I found this out but its the gods honest truth I.m sorry to say

by sar 23.06.16 11:54

Roxyroo wrote:
Joss wrote:
jeanmonroe wrote:
petunia wrote:The stay at home dad who didn't work,how the hell could he afford Max Clifford? unless of course he got paid for parking he lazy ass on TV studio sofas to spin his pack of lies. I hope he rots in hell

Oh, believe me, Butler will be 'paid' alright.
Yeah they usually don't like child killers in prison. Hope they throw him into gen. pop. and he will get a taste of what he did to an innocent baby girl. He has a special place reserved in hell, so does his co conspirator, JG.
I won't even say what i think about that judge.
Rest in heaven beautiful little girl.
The prisons are full to the brim of child sex offenders and not just men, do u really think they get that hard a time? I know that in the women's nicks they don't bat an eyelid about them, I was shocked wen I found this out but its the gods honest truth I.m sorry to say

..think north of the border the nonces get tea / hot water, with sugar no milk dashed on them??? Not sure if they still do that?

by jeanmonroe 23.06.16 12:51

@Roxyroo

"The prisons are full to the brim of child sex offenders and not just men, do u really think they get that hard a time? I know that in the women's nicks they don't bat an eyelid about them I was shocked wen I found this out but its the gods honest truth I.m sorry to say"
------------------------------------------------

NOT sure 'that' is 'true' Roxyroo.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/revenge-possible-motive-killer-mum-kathryn-smith-attacked-prison-1560182

Revenge possible motive as killer mum Kathryn Smith attacked in prison

By Mark Piggott May 15, 2016 17:39 BST

Kathryn Smith was jailed for life after being found guilty of murdering her daughter, Ayeeshia Jane Smith

A mother who stamped her toddler daughter to death has been attacked in prison by two other inmates. Kathryn Smith was jumped at notorious Foston Hall women's prison in Derbyshire and reportedly left with a 2cm slash down her cheek.

An eyewitness to the assault on Smith told the Mirror: "There had been a lot of talk about attacking Smith, but most people wouldn't go through with it as they don't want time added on to their sentences. But these two really went for it and left her in a bad way. No one had any sympathy for Smith. Some staff were saying, 'What goes around comes around.'"

A prison service official denied a weapon had been used in the assault on Smith. The official said disciplinary measures would be taken against those involved. However, the incident is said to have taken place in a stairwell where there was no CCTV monitor.

Smith was sentenced in April 2016 to a minimum 24 years in prison for the murder of her 21-month-old daughter, Ayeeshia. The girl died after being stamped on the chest by Smith in a fit of rage. Smith's partner Matthew Rigby, 22, received three and a half years for allowing Ayeeshia's death.

Killers and abusers of children are often targets for assault in prison and are sometimes kept separate from other inmates. It is unclear why Smith was not segregated when the nature of her offence would have made it likely she would become a possible target for attack.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/two-ex-cons-admit-attacks-7644565#aA7zju1MdpxbdF41.97

Two ex-cons admit attacks on Mikaeel Kular's killer mum Rosdeep Adekoya behind bars

21:30, 28 Mar 2016
Updated 21:46, 28 Mar 2016
ByDavid Taylor

SERIAL offender Jemma Pender and fellow ex-con Meghan Benson attacked Adekoya who became a hate figure after murdering her son Mikaeel, 3, at their Edinburgh home in 2014.

by plebgate 23.06.16 15:22

I wonder how all the naive people who seem so easily "duped" manage to get top jobs and keep them?

by Guest 23.06.16 16:40

Okeydokey wrote:As I recall the despicable Hogg not only exonerated the McCanns as innocent PRIOR to the PJ releasing them from Arguido status...in her summing up (as reported by journalists) she claimed there was a solo perpetrator (this was before she had read anything from the PJ). How did she know there was a SOLO perpetrator? She didn't. Of course when the printed version of her judgement came out that "error" had been corrected and replaced with something anodyne.

Most important thing to remember with Hogg is she gave the McCanns the equivalent of what she gave the father in this case: an injunction that required ALL official agencies in the UK to co-operate with the McCanns fully and reveal relevant info to them. IIRC that was then the basis of the dispute with Leics Police later on (because they didn't want to hand over all their files).

Happy if anyone can improve on my memory.

And that is the crux of the matter as regards the 'ward of court order'.

Address by Tim Scott Q.C. to the High Court of Justice on 07 July 2008, In open court: International Family Law Group

Proceedings were started in this Court by a summons dated 17 May 2007. *The sole purpose of the proceedings has been to call upon the extensive powers of the High Court to require assistance to be given in the search for a missing child.* It is of course quite routine in the Family Division for such Orders to be made. For example in an appropriate case (though not this one) an Order can be made against a mobile phone company to produce the call record of a phone. It was never the parents' wish that the proceedings should become adversarial.

On 22 May 2007 an Order was made by you [4] in very wide terms requiring any person on whom the Order was served to disclose to the parents' solicitors any information which might assist in identifying Madeleine's whereabouts. The Order contained a clause entitling any person served with it to apply to discharge or vary it.

Among the bodies on whom the Order was served was the Leicestershire Constabulary, who immediately expressed doubts as to whether the Order was intended to or could properly extend to them. In due course the parents’ solicitors issued a further application seeking clarification of this. On 02 April 2008 you gave directions which were intended to lead to a hearing at which this question would be resolved. This is that hearing.

As the preparations for this hearing advanced, it became clear that the Leicestershire Constabulary and other law enforcement agencies, while personally sympathetic to the position of the McCann's objected on principle to the disclosure of at least the great bulk of the information in their possession. They raised a number of legal arguments relating among other matters to the public interest in maintaining the confidentiality of police investigations. Both the Serious Organised Crimes Agency and the Attorney-General intervened in the proceedings in order to advance their own arguments on issues of public policy.

It became clear that if today's hearing proceeded on a fully contested basis a number of areas of law of great interest to lawyers would have had to be considered. However Gerry and Kate McCann are not lawyers and so far as they were concerned the legal proceedings were moving further and further from the only matter which concerns them: the search for Madeleine. The proceedings were in danger of becoming a distraction from rather than an aid to that single goal.

Also there have been two recent developments which have greatly affected Gerry and Kate's views on these proceedings. The first is that the Leicestershire Constabulary has now agreed to release an important, though limited, part of the information which they have been seeking; I shall come back to that. The second is that, as has been widely publicised, it is expected that Gerry and Kate's status in Portugal as arguidos or suspects will be lifted soon. When that happens it is hoped and expected that a substantial further amount of information will be released.

Since Gerry and Kate have always wanted to work with all law enforcement agencies on a cooperative basis, they decided to withdraw the application against the Leicestershire Constabulary. We therefore come to Court today to ask you to approve an Order which all parties consent to.

Read on..

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id130.html

*Legalese for a) getting their filthy trotters on otherwise secreted information regarding the official investigation and b) controlling information requested by the PJ and held by UK authorities.

by Roxyroo 23.06.16 21:15

jeanmonroe wrote:@Roxyroo

"The prisons are full to the brim of child sex offenders and not just men, do u really think they get that hard a time? I know that in the women's nicks they don't bat an eyelid about them I was shocked wen I found this out but its the gods honest truth I.m sorry to say"
------------------------------------------------

NOT sure 'that' is 'true' Roxyroo.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/revenge-possible-motive-killer-mum-kathryn-smith-attacked-prison-1560182

Revenge possible motive as killer mum Kathryn Smith attacked in prison

By Mark Piggott May 15, 2016 17:39 BST

Kathryn Smith was jailed for life after being found guilty of murdering her daughter, Ayeeshia Jane Smith

A mother who stamped her toddler daughter to death has been attacked in prison by two other inmates. Kathryn Smith was jumped at notorious Foston Hall women's prison in Derbyshire and reportedly left with a 2cm slash down her cheek.

An eyewitness to the assault on Smith told the Mirror: "There had been a lot of talk about attacking Smith, but most people wouldn't go through with it as they don't want time added on to their sentences. But these two really went for it and left her in a bad way. No one had any sympathy for Smith. Some staff were saying, 'What goes around comes around.'"

A prison service official denied a weapon had been used in the assault on Smith. The official said disciplinary measures would be taken against those involved. However, the incident is said to have taken place in a stairwell where there was no CCTV monitor.

Smith was sentenced in April 2016 to a minimum 24 years in prison for the murder of her 21-month-old daughter, Ayeeshia. The girl died after being stamped on the chest by Smith in a fit of rage. Smith's partner Matthew Rigby, 22, received three and a half years for allowing Ayeeshia's death.

Killers and abusers of children are often targets for assault in prison and are sometimes kept separate from other inmates. It is unclear why Smith was not segregated when the nature of her offence would have made it likely she would become a possible target for attack.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/two-ex-cons-admit-attacks-7644565#aA7zju1MdpxbdF41.97

Two ex-cons admit attacks on Mikaeel Kular's killer mum Rosdeep Adekoya behind bars

21:30, 28 Mar 2016
Updated 21:46, 28 Mar 2016
ByDavid Taylor

SERIAL offender Jemma Pender and fellow ex-con Meghan Benson attacked Adekoya who became a hate figure after murdering her son Mikaeel, 3, at their Edinburgh home in 2014.

My friend got three years. She told me EXACTLY what goes on, so it IS true, I.m sorry to say!
Yes attacks happen, but the cons get paid for their stories so sensationalism abounds!

by Joss 24.06.16 4:50

Roxyroo wrote:
jeanmonroe wrote:@Roxyroo

"The prisons are full to the brim of child sex offenders and not just men, do u really think they get that hard a time? I know that in the women's nicks they don't bat an eyelid about them I was shocked wen I found this out but its the gods honest truth I.m sorry to say"
------------------------------------------------

NOT sure 'that' is 'true' Roxyroo.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/revenge-possible-motive-killer-mum-kathryn-smith-attacked-prison-1560182

Revenge possible motive as killer mum Kathryn Smith attacked in prison

By Mark Piggott May 15, 2016 17:39 BST

Kathryn Smith was jailed for life after being found guilty of murdering her daughter, Ayeeshia Jane Smith

A mother who stamped her toddler daughter to death has been attacked in prison by two other inmates. Kathryn Smith was jumped at notorious Foston Hall women's prison in Derbyshire and reportedly left with a 2cm slash down her cheek.

An eyewitness to the assault on Smith told the Mirror: "There had been a lot of talk about attacking Smith, but most people wouldn't go through with it as they don't want time added on to their sentences. But these two really went for it and left her in a bad way. No one had any sympathy for Smith. Some staff were saying, 'What goes around comes around.'"

A prison service official denied a weapon had been used in the assault on Smith. The official said disciplinary measures would be taken against those involved. However, the incident is said to have taken place in a stairwell where there was no CCTV monitor.

Smith was sentenced in April 2016 to a minimum 24 years in prison for the murder of her 21-month-old daughter, Ayeeshia. The girl died after being stamped on the chest by Smith in a fit of rage. Smith's partner Matthew Rigby, 22, received three and a half years for allowing Ayeeshia's death.

Killers and abusers of children are often targets for assault in prison and are sometimes kept separate from other inmates. It is unclear why Smith was not segregated when the nature of her offence would have made it likely she would become a possible target for attack.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/two-ex-cons-admit-attacks-7644565#aA7zju1MdpxbdF41.97

Two ex-cons admit attacks on Mikaeel Kular's killer mum Rosdeep Adekoya behind bars

21:30, 28 Mar 2016
Updated 21:46, 28 Mar 2016
ByDavid Taylor

SERIAL offender Jemma Pender and fellow ex-con Meghan Benson attacked Adekoya who became a hate figure after murdering her son Mikaeel, 3, at their Edinburgh home in 2014.

My friend got three years. She told me EXACTLY what goes on, so it IS true, I.m sorry to say!
Yes attacks happen, but the cons get paid for their stories so sensationalism abounds!

Could you clarify what exactly is true? TIA.
If a child killer gets attacked in prison yes it does happen if someone wants to get them bad enough. But anyway who would want to protect someone like that when they have murdered a helpless child? It's no wonder other prisoners hate them.

Child Killer Found Murdered in Prison
Police are investigating the suspected murder of child killer Colin Hatch at one of Britain’s most secure prisons.
Hatch, 38, of north London, died at the maximum-security Full Sutton jail near York on Tuesday, police said. Post-mortem tests will be carried out later.
https://psychowatcher.wordpress.com/2011/02/24/child-killer-found-murdered-in-prison/

by Roxyroo 24.06.16 11:49

Joss wrote:
Roxyroo wrote:
jeanmonroe wrote:@Roxyroo

"The prisons are full to the brim of child sex offenders and not just men, do u really think they get that hard a time? I know that in the women's nicks they don't bat an eyelid about them I was shocked wen I found this out but its the gods honest truth I.m sorry to say"
------------------------------------------------

NOT sure 'that' is 'true' Roxyroo.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/revenge-possible-motive-killer-mum-kathryn-smith-attacked-prison-1560182

Revenge possible motive as killer mum Kathryn Smith attacked in prison

By Mark Piggott May 15, 2016 17:39 BST

Kathryn Smith was jailed for life after being found guilty of murdering her daughter, Ayeeshia Jane Smith

A mother who stamped her toddler daughter to death has been attacked in prison by two other inmates. Kathryn Smith was jumped at notorious Foston Hall women's prison in Derbyshire and reportedly left with a 2cm slash down her cheek.

An eyewitness to the assault on Smith told the Mirror: "There had been a lot of talk about attacking Smith, but most people wouldn't go through with it as they don't want time added on to their sentences. But these two really went for it and left her in a bad way. No one had any sympathy for Smith. Some staff were saying, 'What goes around comes around.'"

A prison service official denied a weapon had been used in the assault on Smith. The official said disciplinary measures would be taken against those involved. However, the incident is said to have taken place in a stairwell where there was no CCTV monitor.

Smith was sentenced in April 2016 to a minimum 24 years in prison for the murder of her 21-month-old daughter, Ayeeshia. The girl died after being stamped on the chest by Smith in a fit of rage. Smith's partner Matthew Rigby, 22, received three and a half years for allowing Ayeeshia's death.

Killers and abusers of children are often targets for assault in prison and are sometimes kept separate from other inmates. It is unclear why Smith was not segregated when the nature of her offence would have made it likely she would become a possible target for attack.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/two-ex-cons-admit-attacks-7644565#aA7zju1MdpxbdF41.97

Two ex-cons admit attacks on Mikaeel Kular's killer mum Rosdeep Adekoya behind bars

21:30, 28 Mar 2016
Updated 21:46, 28 Mar 2016
ByDavid Taylor

SERIAL offender Jemma Pender and fellow ex-con Meghan Benson attacked Adekoya who became a hate figure after murdering her son Mikaeel, 3, at their Edinburgh home in 2014.

My friend got three years. She told me EXACTLY what goes on, so it IS true, I.m sorry to say!
Yes attacks happen, but the cons get paid for their stories so sensationalism abounds!
Could you clarify what exactly is true? TIA.
If a child killer gets attacked in prison yes it does happen if someone wants to get them bad enough. But anyway who would want to protect someone like that when they have murdered a helpless child? It's no wonder other prisoners hate them.

Child Killer Found Murdered in Prison
Police are investigating the suspected murder of child killer Colin Hatch at one of Britain’s most secure prisons.
Hatch, 38, of north London, died at the maximum-security Full Sutton jail near York on Tuesday, police said. Post-mortem tests will be carried out later.
https://psychowatcher.wordpress.com/2011/02/24/child-killer-found-murdered-in-prison/

Just what I said, my pal was in the nick, she told me child murderers, sex offenders mix with the rest as there's so many now its impossible to segregate them all. Obviously the ones who are exposed in the media are protected, but she said that the rest don't as u don't have to tell anyone what you're in for. She told me an awful story about finding out some woman she.d liked turned out to be a sex offender, after the woman had lied and said she was just in for fines. This is in Scotland tho where there's only been one female jail up until recently x

by Joss 24.06.16 13:43

Roxyroo wrote:
Joss wrote:

Just what I said, my pal was in the nick, she told me child murderers, sex offenders mix with the rest as there's so many now its impossible to segregate them all. Obviously the ones who are exposed in the media are protected, but she said that the rest don't as u don't have to tell anyone what you're in for. She told me an awful story about finding out some woman she.d liked turned out to be a sex offender, after the woman had lied and said she was just in for fines. This is in Scotland tho where there's only been one female jail up until recently x

Thanks for the clarification. Must of been a scary experience for your friend.

by jeanmonroe 24.06.16 13:48

Maybe I should change the 'title' of this topic to "WE were NOT DUPED" re: 'the 'threats' of 'leaving the EU' from CameRUN and his 'chums'! big grin

by pennylane 24.06.16 13:49

Roxyroo wrote:
Joss wrote:
Roxyroo wrote:
jeanmonroe wrote:@Roxyroo

"The prisons are full to the brim of child sex offenders and not just men, do u really think they get that hard a time? I know that in the women's nicks they don't bat an eyelid about them I was shocked wen I found this out but its the gods honest truth I.m sorry to say"
------------------------------------------------

NOT sure 'that' is 'true' Roxyroo.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/revenge-possible-motive-killer-mum-kathryn-smith-attacked-prison-1560182

Revenge possible motive as killer mum Kathryn Smith attacked in prison

By Mark Piggott May 15, 2016 17:39 BST

Kathryn Smith was jailed for life after being found guilty of murdering her daughter, Ayeeshia Jane Smith

A mother who stamped her toddler daughter to death has been attacked in prison by two other inmates. Kathryn Smith was jumped at notorious Foston Hall women's prison in Derbyshire and reportedly left with a 2cm slash down her cheek.

An eyewitness to the assault on Smith told the Mirror: "There had been a lot of talk about attacking Smith, but most people wouldn't go through with it as they don't want time added on to their sentences. But these two really went for it and left her in a bad way. No one had any sympathy for Smith. Some staff were saying, 'What goes around comes around.'"

A prison service official denied a weapon had been used in the assault on Smith. The official said disciplinary measures would be taken against those involved. However, the incident is said to have taken place in a stairwell where there was no CCTV monitor.

Smith was sentenced in April 2016 to a minimum 24 years in prison for the murder of her 21-month-old daughter, Ayeeshia. The girl died after being stamped on the chest by Smith in a fit of rage. Smith's partner Matthew Rigby, 22, received three and a half years for allowing Ayeeshia's death.

Killers and abusers of children are often targets for assault in prison and are sometimes kept separate from other inmates. It is unclear why Smith was not segregated when the nature of her offence would have made it likely she would become a possible target for attack.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/two-ex-cons-admit-attacks-7644565#aA7zju1MdpxbdF41.97

Two ex-cons admit attacks on Mikaeel Kular's killer mum Rosdeep Adekoya behind bars

21:30, 28 Mar 2016
Updated 21:46, 28 Mar 2016
ByDavid Taylor

SERIAL offender Jemma Pender and fellow ex-con Meghan Benson attacked Adekoya who became a hate figure after murdering her son Mikaeel, 3, at their Edinburgh home in 2014.

My friend got three years. She told me EXACTLY what goes on, so it IS true, I.m sorry to say!
Yes attacks happen, but the cons get paid for their stories so sensationalism abounds!
Could you clarify what exactly is true? TIA.
If a child killer gets attacked in prison yes it does happen if someone wants to get them bad enough. But anyway who would want to protect someone like that when they have murdered a helpless child? It's no wonder other prisoners hate them.

Child Killer Found Murdered in Prison
Police are investigating the suspected murder of child killer Colin Hatch at one of Britain’s most secure prisons.
Hatch, 38, of north London, died at the maximum-security Full Sutton jail near York on Tuesday, police said. Post-mortem tests will be carried out later.
https://psychowatcher.wordpress.com/2011/02/24/child-killer-found-murdered-in-prison/

Just what I said, my pal was in the nick, she told me child murderers, sex offenders mix with the rest as there's so many now its impossible to segregate them all. Obviously the ones who are exposed in the media are protected, but she said that the rest don't as u don't have to tell anyone what you're in for. She told me an awful story about finding out some woman she.d liked turned out to be a sex offender, after the woman had lied and said she was just in for fines. This is in Scotland tho where there's only been one female jail up until recently x

"Armed robber Damien Fowkes, 36, who was already serving a life term, slashed Ian Huntley's throat in Durham's Frankland Jail in March 2010. He also strangled child killer Colin Hatch with strips of bedding at Full Sutton Prison near York....."

So no easy ride for people who harm children. Huntley was attacked quite a few times I believe.