After weeks of searching, the Met Police realise that they have zero information about any demands for payment from the Portuguese authorities for work on Operation Grange

Here is the reply, received 43 days after my original FoI Act request (requests under the Act should be processed within 20 working days), as to how much the Met Police or the Home Office has had to pay to the Portuguese authorities for work carried out on behalf of Operation Grange.

Those of you who have followed this will know that I submitted an identical claim under FoI Act to the Home Office, on the same day, and am still awaiting any answer from there.

Of course, it is possible that the Portuguese authorities have never made any demands for payment, though they have made more than one public statement saying that the British authorities will be billed for their costs.

It's unacceptable to be told after 6 weeks that 'we can't find anything' about these costs. Clearly whoever is in charge of this investigation at the Met (and this case goes right to the very top) knows fine well whether any monies have been demanded (if any), and what has been paid (if any). If the Portuguese authorities hadn't demanded a penny, they could have told me that months ago.

So I think something is being hidden, and I will press on by asking for a review first of all and if necessary appeal to the Information Commissioner.

I'll place all the correspondence here.

=================================================

Dear Mr Bennett

Freedom of Information Request Reference No: 2016070000799

I apologise for the delay in responding.

I write in connection with your request for information which was received
by the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) on 20/07/2016.  I note you seek
access to the following information:

I ask these questions about the Metropolitan Police’s Operation Grange
which, according to the remit set for it by former Detective Chief
Superintendent Hamish Campbell, is ‘to investigate the abduction of
Madeleine McCann as if the abduction had occurred in the U.K.’    
In 2013 and 2014 there were many references in the British press to
expenditure by the Portuguese Police having to be met by the British
government. These expenses are known to include:
1.        The cost of hiring an Alouette Mark III top-of-the-range
Portuguese military helicopter
2.        The provision of extensive physical support, assistance,
supervision and other assistance in connection with two searches of
patches of waste ground in Praia da Luz in 2014, and
3.        Extensive assistance by way of Portuguese police conducting a
series of ‘rogatory interviews’ of a significant number of alleged
suspects
4.        Translation services in connection with (a) the 2014 search of
Praia da Luz (b) the rogatory interviews of suspects and (c) any other
occasions.
Please provide the following information:
A.        The dates that the Portuguese Police, Ministry of Justice or any
other agency of the Portuguese government requested financial assistance
or otherwise submitted any invoice or other demand for payment
B.        In each case, how much was demanded?
C.        List all payments made in connection with Operation Grange to
the Portuguese authorities.                     .

REPLY:

SEARCHES TO LOCATE INFORMATION

To locate the information relevant to your request searches were conducted
at Operation Grange.  The searches failed to locate any information
relevant to your request, therefore, the information you have requested is
not held by the MPS.

Should you have any further enquiries concerning this matter, please
contact me via email at [email address], quoting the reference number
above.

Yours sincerely

Michela Holmes
FOIA Officer 
   

---

COMPLAINT RIGHTS

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decision is incorrect?

You have the right to require the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) to
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FOI Complaint
Information Rights Unit
PO Box 57192
London
SW6 1SF
[email address]

In all possible circumstances the MPS will aim to respond to your
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Got a short reply from acquilla, something like that, well as I posted I've tried this FOI with Home Office, MOJ, FCO and MOPAC no luck. So yes I do FOIs. Do you?

Michael99 wrote:Got a short reply from acquilla, something like that, well as I posted I've tried this FOI with Home Office, MOJ, FCO and MOPAC no luck. So yes I do FOIs. Do you?

You tried what?  Are you saying you've re-submitted the meticulous work of Mr. Tony Bennett to a variety of acronyms?  If so on whose authority - if not then where are these Freedom of Information Act applications you've submitted?

You're beginning to seriously try my patience.  White noise at best - black deeds at worst.  Please put up or shut up!

Doubtful I need your permission, and post them when I see fit. Incidentally some awaiting response at the moment.
.
.

Sorry to dissapoint you, I've sent Tony one I got from the Foreign Office. It certainly wasn't resubmitted but my own. I've put up.
.

Michael99 wrote:Sorry to dissapoint you, I've sent Tony one I got from the Foreign Office. It certainly wasn't resubmitted but my own. I've put up.

Really? Not that I recall. I have no idea who you are anyway.


ETA:

Since making this post I have checked my e-mail inbox and within the last hour have received an e-mail from 'Michael99'.  Understandably he does not want his e-mail address disclosed (which is all I know about him). I can however confirm that he sent in an FoIAct request to the Foreign Office at the end of last summer and I can summarise the question and response by quoting extracts:

QUOTE

Consular Assistance Department
Foreign and Commonwealth Office
King Charles Street
London SW1A 2AH
Website: https://www.gov.uk


[Date withheld]

Dear [withheld]

FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT 2000

Thank you for your email of 03 September asking for information under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) 2000. You asked:

I am told you pay the Portuguese authorities for their work since they reopened the case. Could you tell me the total cost to date, or the last available accounting period. The fate I referred to was May 2011; the outset of Operation Grange, my belief was it was the responsibility of your Department, to cover the costs of the Portuguese authorities.

REPLY:

I am writing to confirm that we have now completed the search for the information which you requested. I have established that the information you requested is not held by this Department as the FCO did not provide funding for the Portuguese authorities. Operation Grange is a Metropolitan Police led investigation.

You may wish to contact the Metropolitan Police to obtain further information, the contact email address is: operation.grange@met.pnn.police.uk

Yours sincerely,

Consular Assistance Department

UNQUOTE

MY COMMENT:  It took Michael99 four months to get this reply! And then they told him to contact the MetPolice. Why did they do this? I wrote to the MetPolice as well and got the same answer. Maybe the Portuguese authorities are being paid by some other department. Why cannot one departmemt or another simply say either:

A. We have paid the Portuguese police nothing,

OR

B. We have paid them £xxx.


Not that hard, is it?

Sent 8.57 tonight, are you saying you didn't get it?


See Tony Bennett's post, above - Mod

Thanks for that, same reply Home Office and Justice and Mayors office for policing. However, not finished yet.

From what I remember, the official investigation was held in Portimao but there were also, a group of unofficials running a review from Oporto.  These were the ones, originally working alongside Operation Grange.

Michael99 wrote:Sorry to dissapoint you, I've sent Tony one I got from the Foreign Office. It certainly wasn't resubmitted but my own. I've put up.
.

If you're talking to me, no problem - I'm not disappointed.

Please forgive me but you've repeatedly asked questions on the subject of petitions and FOIs so it's understandable that one might think you are unfamiliar with detail.  In effect you are only asking questions to which you already know the answer.

I can't see why you couldn't just post up your FOI requests in the first place (deleting private information of course) rather than taking the trouble to locate Mr. Bennett's email address and sending to him. I guess you had your reasons.  Still, water under the bridge!

ETA:  Went back to the thread to locate your exact wording on a particular point but I've can't see it, the post seems to have disappeared.   Words to the effect of 'WE all know that a UK department has paid for ....'

This 'WE' for one doesn't know - would you be so kind as to provide the source of your information?  Thanks.

Perhaps it should have read we all suppose. However, in the early days the Portuguese media were talking about billing UKG, I'll see if I can locate one. No intent to decieve.

Even the loony Stephen Birch emailed Tony Bennett.

I'm amazed you haven't solved it yet, ever been to luz?

Michael99 wrote:I'm amazed you haven't solved it yet, ever been to luz?

What kind of cryptic nonsense is that?

aquila wrote:

Michael99 wrote:I'm amazed you haven't solved it yet, ever been to luz?

What kind of cryptic nonsense is that?

Perhaps Michael99 may have travelled to Prai da Luiz during May 2007/08 offering close assistance or just paddling in the sea around some Rocks along the Beach Front resembling Chubby Brown?
What do you think Verdi?

What a double act.

willowthewisp wrote:

aquila wrote:

Michael99 wrote:I'm amazed you haven't solved it yet, ever been to luz?

What kind of cryptic nonsense is that?

Perhaps Michael99 may have travelled to Prai da Luiz during May 2007/08 offering close assistance or just paddling in the sea around some Rocks along the Beach Front resembling Chubby Brown?
What do you think Verdi?

'I'm not going to comment on that....' (said with petulant toss of the head)

What a pair of mugs. It seems you use this for your infantile humour.

Michael99 wrote:Perhaps it should have read we all suppose. However, in the early days the Portuguese media were talking about billing UKG, I'll see if I can locate one. No intent to decieve.

Just drop the 'we' - no offense but I don't appreciate anyone presuming to speak for me.

In the absence of tangible evidence there is always a temptation to resort to press reports for verification of a specific point.  However, I was rather hoping for a more authoritative source like a direct quote from a named Portuguese official.

Funny you should say that hoping something from Pedro da Carmo forthcoming. Unfortunately, no time scale. Sleep soundly.

Michael99 wrote:What a pair of mugs. It seems you use this for your infantile humour.

It would be helpful if you could identify the member you are responding to, if you are talking to me - again - haven't you ever seen the iconic video clip when Gerry McCann was asked if he knows Robert Murat?  Here it is in all it's splendour @ 0:24..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qNhoWz0rQw

Sorry way  !

What an interesting life you lead, you should get out more.

Michael99 wrote:Funny you should say that hoping something from Pedro da Carmo forthcoming. Unfortunately, no time scale. Sleep soundly.

I've got your number  .

Michael99 wrote:What an interesting life you lead, you should get out more.

And YOU should get out more too. Out of this forum!

Goodbye!

No official statements to be seen, we can only go by press reporting, although it appears to come from the same source that told the Met to ‘zip-it’ or else. This was followed up by a Met Police Press release, (linked to below), but which has now been whooshed. Someone has probably copied it somewhere for posterity though.
 
http://portugalresident.com/air-‘search-for-madeleine’-as-british-police-warned-to-‘zip-it’
 
Posted by JOMAD on May 09, 2014
 
A Portuguese air force helicopter flew visiting Metropolitan Police officers over the beachside resort of Praia da Luz yesterday (Thursday, May 8) as the seven-year investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann cranked up several notches.
The Alouette III flight - paid for by the British - was to enable officers working on Operation Grange to take aerial photos of “various points of interest for future searches”.
“The objective was to see if there were areas with uneven levels consistent with a place where a body had been buried,” writes Correio da Manhã in its latest report.
Such photo-searches are considered “essential” by the British police now three years into their investigations into the seven-year-old mystery.
Yesterday’s air reconnaissance took place when the village of Luz was braced for the prospect of earthmovers moving in, added CM.
British tabloids began the week with inflated stories of legions of diggers being drafted in to search key sites near the Ocean Club resort from which Madeleine went missing in May 2007.
The result seems to be that the Portuguese authorities have warned their British counterparts to ‘zip it’.
Sky News reporter Martin Brunt said yesterday that “the Portuguese authorities have threatened to hold up cooperation if British police talk about the new phase of the investigation”.
He also intimated that new searches - far from involving “diggers everywhere” - are more likely to use police dogs and ground-penetrating radar.
However, when these searches will start is anyone’s guess.
 
…………………………
 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2623254/Scotland-Yard-detectives-leading-hunt-Madeleine-McCann-arrive-Portugal-ahead-excavations-town-vanished.html
 
A large wasteland yards from the Ocean Club complex will be dug up, plus an area beside the beach as well as roads by the church in Praia da Luz where Gerry and Kate McCann prayed for the safe return of their daughter.
 
But while Met detectives instigated the new searches and will cover the huge costs involved, the work is controlled by the Portuguese.
 
There are even concerns that the Met may be banned from ‘witnessing’ the digs. In a further setback, a request to search the homes of some of the prime suspects in the case has been rejected.
 
Jornal de Notícias, paper edition (page 13), May 9, 2014
 
Yesterday, the day was marked by an aerial photo-reconnaissance in Praia da Luz of the areas where searches and excavations are planned, using a helicopter of the Portuguese Air Force paid by the British authorities and by a meeting between the police forces of the two countries at the PJ headquarters in Faro.
 
The relationship between the police forces of the two countries is rather tense. The Judiciary Police has requested to the English police to stop disclosing information about the ongoing work in Portugal, otherwise they will not proceed with the steps that were requested. Scotland Yard wrote to the newspapers in the United Kingdom asking for “understanding”.
 
 
http://www.jn.pt/nacional/dossiers/o-caso-maddie-mccann/ultimas/interior/policias-ingleses-pedem-fotos-aereas-de-locais-onde-pode-estar-corpo-de-maddie-3851752.html?id=3851752
 
The cost of this flight, like with the other investigative steps [asked by the British], will be covered by the British authorities.

Doug D wrote:No official statements to be seen, we can only go by press reporting, although it appears to come from the same source that told the Met to ‘zip-it’ or else. This was followed up by a Met Police Press release, (linked to below), but which has now been whooshed. Someone has probably copied it somewhere for posterity though.

Is this Operation Grange exercise the only one in question?  If so I think I can understand that the costs of the operation was the responsibility of Operation Grange and funded from their global budget granted by the Home Office for the investigation into the 'abduction' of Madeleine McCann.  Certainly can't expect Portugal to pay for it.  The Home Office response is tenuous to say the least, although I can understand once a sum of money has been granted to Operation Grange actual expenditure is out of their control but they do say (the Home Office) that they regularly review the operation - it's a matter of conjecture just how far that review extends.

You say, I quote..   " This was followed up by a Met Police Press release, (linked to below), but which has now been whooshed. Someone has probably copied it somewhere for posterity though."

Where/what is the link?  I only see links to press reports.  I know the Metropolitan Police Press Bureau has re-vamped it's website - I wondered if this was because they previously specified that all information was for media contacts only and not to be reproduced.  Not sure if their stipulation was strictly honoured.

TB does mention 2013 in his enquiry, so there are probably more.

The link to the 'whooshed' Met release is under the red 'wrote' five lines from the bottom of my post.

Knew it would be here somewhere, good old mccannfiles!


 
 


07 May 2014
 
Letter from Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley to news editors re Op Grange, the Madeleine McCann investigation.
 
As you are aware this case has for some time been moving towards increased action in Portugal on the basis of MPS 'International letters of request'. Whilst the process is more bureaucratic and slower than we would wish, you will recall at recent briefings that DAC Martin Hewitt has said that we were increasingly optimistic of that activity starting soon.
 
I am writing because I now believe that activity will occur in forthcoming weeks. You will understand that our requests for action in Portugal lead to investigative steps taking place under Portuguese law. In this context I have been discussing with my opposite number in the Policia Judiciara the high levels of interest that the action (especially when some of it will take place in public) will generate in the British media. I have discussed with him that it is our usual and preferred practice in this case to brief the media on an ongoing basis on such cases as that usually ensures that the activity of reporters and the coverage assists rather than damages the investigation.
 
These briefings, as you would appreciate, do not give complete detail on what the activity is, (as this could compromise what we are trying to achieve), but do provide context and as much information as possible whilst still protecting the investigation.
 
The advice I am receiving from Portugal is that their approach is very different and they do not brief the media on current investigations. He has been clear with me that if we provide any briefings or information on the work they are undertaking on our behalf, or if reporters cause any disruption to their work in Portugal, activity will cease until that problem dissipates.
 
It is important you understand this and appreciate the position in which I find myself. We will not be able to provide any information concerning the activity because ultimately it could mean the work stops. We respect the Portuguese position as we would expect them to respect our position if we were carrying out work on their behalf in the UK.
 
The most important task for me is to build momentum and protect our investigation given the many lines of enquiry that we see are necessary in order that we can do everything possible to solve the case. I ask that you support me and my team in those efforts. This includes respecting the requests of the Portuguese authorities during the work they will be carrying out on our behalf.
 
As well as being aware of the dangers of disrupting the work of the Portuguese, I would also ask you to think carefully about the information you decide to put into the public domain. Although we will continue not to comment on specific information, I would ask you to think twice about what impact that information or speculation might have on the investigation if it is published or broadcast.
 
We do not want to undermine our prospects of providing Mr and Mrs McCann with answers in this tragic case.
 
Collectively we all need to think carefully about our actions in this case.
 
Yours sincerely
 
Mark Rowley
 
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id485.html

Sorry, getting OT, but the whole helicopter and subsequent dig nonsense, including two dogs, was fully photographed and reported in the Press without any apparent problems with the Portuguese authorities.
 
However there was no mention of four dogs and handlers going until this:  
 
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/meet-badger-spud-muzzy-tito-8460918
 
so is this was they were trying to keep hidden, which the Press complied with?
 
More on this thread:
 
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t13067-can-anyone-answer-these-questions

So a month after this:
 
(Snipped from above)
 
‘The advice I am receiving from Portugal is that their approach is very different and they do not brief the media on current investigations. He has been clear with me that if we provide any briefings or information on the work they are undertaking on our behalf, or if reporters cause any disruption to their work in Portugal, activity will cease until that problem dissipates.
 
It is important you understand this and appreciate the position in which I find myself. We will not be able to provide any information concerning the activity because ultimately it could mean the work stops. We respect the Portuguese position as we would expect them to respect our position if we were carrying out work on their behalf in the UK.’
 


we then had the following, thanking the Media for their co-operation:
 


Met Police Press Release - Operation Grange Update
 
11^th June 2014, 17.50
 
Operation Grange officers working alongside experts in their field from around the UK, the Policia Judicial and the Guarda Nacional Republicana today, Wednesday 11 June completed an eight day period of work searching specific areas of land in Praia da Luz.
At this time no evidence relating to Madeleine McCann has been identified. However it has given us an essential understanding of the activity on and people that have used this piece of land.
This was the first phase of this major investigation which has been agreed with the Portuguese following the four International Letters of Request submitted to date. More activity has been agreed and we expect that to commence shortly. In addition further requests are being compiled and will be submitted in due course.
The decision to search the “horse shoe” shaped piece of waste ground to the west of Praia da Luz and other sites was as a specific result of the UK’s investigation work to date.
The total area of land searched and surveyed was of approximately 60,000 sq metres and included all utilities, drainage channels and derelict buildings. 41 ground anomalies were identified initially by both aerial survey and ground analysis which were then investigated fully. These included three outside of the original area.
This deployment which was the largest ever undertaken by UK police overseas in a case of this type, highlighted the effective nature of the assistance given by the Portuguese authorities, for which the investigation team and family are very grateful.
The media’s understanding and co-operation following Assistant Commissioner Rowley’s pre deployment briefing has also been noted and appreciated.
   
There is still a substantial amount of work yet to be completed in the coming weeks and months, which again should be viewed as no more than normal operational activity in a case of this size and complexity. This recent work is part of ensuring that all lines of enquiry are progressed in a systematic manner and covers just the one hypothesis that she was killed and buried locally. This is the same as would be done in the UK for a murder or high risk missing person enquiry. The scientific support staff involved were there to provide the highest level of assurance that this area was searched to the highest possible standards.