The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Welcome to 'The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann' forum 🌹

Please log in, or register to view all the forums as some of them are 'members only', then settle in and help us get to the truth about what really happened to Madeleine Beth McCann.

Please note that when you register your username must be different from your email address!


Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Page 1 of 4 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

How did Robert Murat become a PJ translator?

7% 7% 
[ 2 ]
4% 4% 
[ 1 ]
7% 7% 
[ 2 ]
44% 44% 
[ 12 ]
7% 7% 
[ 2 ]
30% 30% 
[ 8 ]
 
Total Votes : 27

Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by Tony Bennett on 13.08.16 9:31

This is an extract from my April 2010 article: 'Murat: From Arguido to Applause'.

It gives two alternative explanations as to how Robert Murat became the PJ's lead translator on the first few days after Madeleine was reported missing:

1. Stephen Carpenter happened to be walking past the Casa Liliana on the morning of Friday 4 May, heard for the first time about the abduction, and immediately jumped up and went up to the Ocean Club to volunteer his help, and

2. He was recommended by the British Ambassador, Bill Henderson.

The two explanations may not be incompatible  

We know now of course that much of what Murat said about his movements from 1 to 4 May, when first interviewed by the PJ on 15 May 2007, was untrue.

What is clear is that Murat was well-known to the British Embassy, who were heavily involved in supporting the McCanns in the very early days, even to the extent of their begging the PJ: "Have pity on them, let them alone to wash their clothes" (or words to that effect).

I will add a poll.

==================================

  
Section G.  The first police interview with Robert Murat

[Part of section snipped]

Contrary to what he had said previously, he did not speak to Michaela on the telephone, because between 8.00pm and 10.00pm, he said she had been at a Thursday night Jehovah’s Witness meeting, and she’d switched off her mobile ’phone. He says he might have spoken to her after 10.00pm, but can’t remember.

He said that he didn’t remember being on his computer that evening, but does remember hearing, at about 10.30pm or just after, a police or ambulance siren. But he didn’t leave the house to investigate what that was all about.  He says he went to bed about midnight that night, waking up at about 9.00am the following morning (Friday).

What he says next is quite important. He said that after taking a bath and then talking to his mother in the kitchen, his mother told him that ‘something terrible has happened’. She said she had had SKY NEWS on and that a child had disappeared from Praia da Luz during the night. Murat says that he and his mother then went immediately into their garden, which had a fence about 3ft to 4ft high around it, to check if perhaps the child had somehow gained entrance to their property. They searched their greenhouse - all with no result.

Murat says he then saw a passer-by, an English-speaking person, to whom he spoke. He says the Englishman, whose name he doesn’t know, confirmed that the child had vanished [NOTE: The Englishman’s name was Stephen Carpenter, the father of the ‘Hertfordshire’ couple who had been dining in the Tapas bar with their children alongside the McCanns and their ‘Tapas 9’ friends the previous night when Madeleine was reported missing].

Murat said that this passer-by said the child’s name was Madeleine and that he knew Madeleine’s parents. Murat says he assumed that the passer-by must have been staying in the Praia da Luz Ocean Club Complex, as indeed the stranger confirmed. Murat then says that he then went to the Ocean Club with Mr Carpenter and there was immediately introduced to Dr Gerald and Dr Kate McCann, ‘offering to help’ them in any way he could.  He said he thought he could help as he spoke both English and Portuguese.

He then says he toured several of the Ocean Club apartments with a GNR Police Officer and an Ocean Club employee, visiting all the apartments and opening up several with keys to see if Madeleine might be in one of the apartments. He says that: “Some of the apartments were closed and had ‘no keys’; these apartment were reported to the GNR’s senior investigator”.

He says he was also introduced to John Hill, the Manager of Mark Warner, who supplied them with more keys to these other, locked, apartments. Murat told police that prior to this occasion he did not know the interior layout of the ‘Ocean Club’, only entering the resort for the first time after Madeleine’s disappearance. He added that: “The ‘binómios’ arrived and began a more rigorous form of search”.

Murat then became heavily involved that day (4 May) in translation work. As he told police: “Having told people I spoke both languages, I spoke to several people, including GNR Police Officers, and translated for several witnesses, right through the afternoon”.

A different explanation of how Robert Murat became a translator on the Madeleine case

But elsewhere…

(Source: http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/2007/12/murat-recommended-as-translator-by.html)

…we find an alternative explanation for how Robert Murat became a translator in Portugal in connection with Madeleine’s disappearance:

QUOTE

Staff from Bill Henderson’s office suggested the name of Robert Murat as a reliable translator who could be used in the police inquiry, in the days following Madeleine McCann disappearance. Murat was already known among diplomatic staff, as he had letters of recommendation from Norfolk Police, where he worked for Bernard Matthews, one of the largest poultry farm companies in UK, which employs hundreds of Portuguese workers. The fact that Robert Murat has acted, before, as translator for Norfolk Police, and the recommendation issued by Bill Henderson’s office, at the time the British consul in Algarve, took police to accept the suggestion, according to PJ [Portuguese Police] sources. After Murat was named a formal suspect, the police went through all translations he had done, checking their accuracy, but no problem was found, according to the same sources. Bill Henderson retired from his diplomatic post and went back to the U.K. in August.

UNQUOTE

____________________

The amazing symbiosis between bees and flowers:

https://answersingenesis.org/evidence-for-creation/god-created-plant-pollinator-partners/  

avatar
Tony Bennett
Researcher

Posts : 14977
Reputation : 3028
Join date : 2009-11-25
Age : 70
Location : Shropshire

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Robert Murat,Patsy?

Post by willowthewisp on 13.08.16 11:34

So Mr William Henderson left his post in Portugal in August to return to the UK,was this August 2007 or 2008?
So now we have connections to Robert Murat,Martin Brunt,Gerry McCann,Stephen Carpenter,Russell O'Brien,Bill Henderson,Martin Smith potentially all knowing one another but no Knowledge of what might have happened 3 May 2007?
avatar
willowthewisp

Posts : 2354
Reputation : 893
Join date : 2015-05-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by JRP on 13.08.16 11:47

Three or four years ago I had a conversation with a customer of mine who told me he was an interpreter working for the local police and in the courts. 
From what I remember, he said interpreting from one language to another was more skillful than just being an average bi-lingual.
I understood that some form of qualification or accreditation is required. 
You can't just walk into a police enquiry and on the basis of being able to translate one language to another, begin to help police transcribe what will be very important information. 

My own opinion is, Murat was contacted and flown out specially. He waited patiently and was put in place as an interpreter when the time came.
That of course means in my mind, something happened earlier in the week, prior to Murat flying to PDL.

JRP

Posts : 596
Reputation : 542
Join date : 2016-03-07
Age : 60
Location : UK

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by Verdi on 13.08.16 12:46

Somehow, judging by his CV, I can't imagine Robert Murat to be anything other than bi-lingual by dual nationality.  My opinion only but the concept of him being flown over by the Foreign and Commonwealth on stand-by as translator for a forthcoming event, appears a trifle far fetched.  Besides, the information known so far about Robert Murat and his movements during that week and latterly, do nothing to suggest such a scenario.

Still, anything's possible - within reason.  This is a very informative link on the subject..

https://nationalcareersservice.direct.gov.uk/advice/planning/jobprofiles/Pages/translator.aspx

From my experience, when the services of a translator is required when abroad, the local consulate will provide contact details for local accredited translators, the consulate do not pay for the service.  Again in my opinion, Robert Murat was supplied, so to speak, to act as translator by persons of interest on a local level, not some higher being - akin to his mother, Jenny Murat, setting-up a street stall for people to report information if they feared the police or had some other reason not to present themselves before the police.  The curious thing is of course, his behaviour whilst hanging around the police station, as reported by Inspector Pedro Varanda.

I know Murat claimed to have worked as a translator for the police back in the UK but I've never seen anything to officialy confirm that claim, nor and more to the point, any indication that he had previously been asked to translate for the PJ  - despite the extensive British ex-pat community in and around Praia da Luz.

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
avatar
Verdi
Moderator/Researcher

Posts : 8955
Reputation : 3952
Join date : 2015-02-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by Verdi on 13.08.16 12:50

Lest we forget..

Processo page 960-961

Service Information document dated 11 May 2007 from Inspector Pedro Varanda relating to an informal conversation with Robert Murat

As you will know, Sir, on this day at 11h30, there appeared before the undersigned and (lady) Inspector Patricia Duarte, a British citizen called Diane Webster, holder of UK passport XXXXXXX, in order to hear her witness statement.

In the course of an informal approach that preceeded that work, it was determined that she was not conversant in Portuguese, written or spoken, and the service of an English-speaking interpreter was therefore called for.

In this function appeared a British citizen, Robert J.Q.E. Murat (duly identified in the files from previous work), official resident of Casa Liliana, Rua Ramalhete, Praia da Luz, Lagos.

The work [the DW interview] being concluded, and during an informal conversation that the undersigned began with that interpreter (as would be characteristic in this type of situation), Robert Murat displayed an unusual curiosity about the investigation that was developing around the disappearance of the minor Madeleine McCann that occurred on 3 May 2007.

As an example, it will be proper to point out that he has insistently and repeatedly questioned me about the identity of possible suspects, about the strategy outlined by the lead coordinator of the investigation and the work that might possibly have been considered for the coming days.
Before [faced with] such an attitude, that was so unusual and absolutely inappropriate that I immediately became highly suspicious, I always countered [ducked the questions], insistently requesting that person to be aware of the contractual duties pertaining to the role which he has assumed in this investigation, pointing out that it was presently the inquiry phase, and, naturally, covered by judicial secrecy.

It behoves me further to state that that suspicion became even more consolidated, following the fact that I became aware that Robert Murat would covertly attempt to catch glimpses of various procedural pieces [items being prepared for the case file] that make up the present inquiry, to the point that I followed my own consultation [hunch], in order to conduct the Diane Webster interview.

Finally, and in the sense of reiterating the suspicious attitude shown by Robert Murat, I venture still to state that, beyond having manifested an enormous knowledge about the dynamics inherent in the functioning of the "Ocean Club Garden" (in which the events under investigation had taken place) and of the routines followed by the McCann family and their companions during their respective stays in in Praia da Luz, he has tried persistently to influence the conduct of the present investigation, suggesting various analyses the agreement with which [i.e. had they agreed to follow those suggested lines of inquiry] could be intended to impute the consummation of the present illegal act [the missing child] to foreign third parties [i.e. to put the blame on, or to attribute the blame to, outside foreigners].

The above being exposed [laid bare] - and without intending in any way to place in question the competence of the above individual, nor the slightest imputation that that [my suspicions] was what he wanted to be [actually intended to do] - I have to bring the above incidents to your attention, in order for you to determine what may be appropriate.11 May 2007

Inspector Pedro Varanda

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ROBERT-MURAT.htm

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
avatar
Verdi
Moderator/Researcher

Posts : 8955
Reputation : 3952
Join date : 2015-02-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by NickE on 13.08.16 13:03

@JRP wrote:My own opinion is, Murat was contacted and flown out specially. He waited patiently and was put in place as an interpreter when the time came.
That of course means in my mind, something happened earlier in the week, prior to Murat flying to PDL.
That's also mycket opinion. 
Something happened on Sunday and we have the failed CEOP missing page on Monday, no phone pings from the McCann's.
Sagres?
Yes? No? C[size=48]onfusion and imo ,Murat was contacted by someone or somebody to do this "job"[/size]
[size=48]He jetted off in hurry to be in time for the meetings and preparations.[/size]

____________________
When asked if people will ever learn what really happened, Mr Amaral responded: “Yes, we will, when MI5 opens the case files, we will find out".
avatar
NickE

Posts : 1201
Reputation : 410
Join date : 2013-10-27
Age : 43

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by aquila on 13.08.16 15:06

@Verdi wrote:Lest we forget..

Processo page 960-961

Service Information document dated 11 May 2007 from Inspector Pedro Varanda relating to an informal conversation with Robert Murat

As you will know, Sir, on this day at 11h30, there appeared before the undersigned and (lady) Inspector Patricia Duarte, a British citizen called Diane Webster, holder of UK passport XXXXXXX, in order to hear her witness statement.

In the course of an informal approach that preceeded that work, it was determined that she was not conversant in Portuguese, written or spoken, and the service of an English-speaking interpreter was therefore called for.

In this function appeared a British citizen, Robert J.Q.E. Murat (duly identified in the files from previous work), official resident of Casa Liliana, Rua Ramalhete, Praia da Luz, Lagos.

The work [the DW interview] being concluded, and during an informal conversation that the undersigned began with that interpreter (as would be characteristic in this type of situation), Robert Murat displayed an unusual curiosity about the investigation that was developing around the disappearance of the minor Madeleine McCann that occurred on 3 May 2007.

As an example, it will be proper to point out that he has insistently and repeatedly questioned me about the identity of possible suspects, about the strategy outlined by the lead coordinator of the investigation and the work that might possibly have been considered for the coming days.
Before [faced with] such an attitude, that was so unusual and absolutely inappropriate that I immediately became highly suspicious, I always countered [ducked the questions], insistently requesting that person to be aware of the contractual duties pertaining to the role which he has assumed in this investigation, pointing out that it was presently the inquiry phase, and, naturally, covered by judicial secrecy.

It behoves me further to state that that suspicion became even more consolidated, following the fact that I became aware that Robert Murat would covertly attempt to catch glimpses of various procedural pieces [items being prepared for the case file] that make up the present inquiry, to the point that I followed my own consultation [hunch], in order to conduct the Diane Webster interview.

Finally, and in the sense of reiterating the suspicious attitude shown by Robert Murat, I venture still to state that, beyond having manifested an enormous knowledge about the dynamics inherent in the functioning of the "Ocean Club Garden" (in which the events under investigation had taken place) and of the routines followed by the McCann family and their companions during their respective stays in in Praia da Luz, he has tried persistently to influence the conduct of the present investigation, suggesting various analyses the agreement with which [i.e. had they agreed to follow those suggested lines of inquiry] could be intended to impute the consummation of the present illegal act [the missing child] to foreign third parties [i.e. to put the blame on, or to attribute the blame to, outside foreigners].

The above being exposed [laid bare] - and without intending in any way to place in question the competence of the above individual, nor the slightest imputation that that [my suspicions] was what he wanted to be [actually intended to do] - I have to bring the above incidents to your attention, in order for you to determine what may be appropriate.11 May 2007

Inspector Pedro Varanda

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ROBERT-MURAT.htm
The PJ either shot themselves in the foot by engaging 'the bloke from over the road' to interpret or the PJ needs to declare Robert Murat was on a formal list of translators provided by its department/code of practice established with the British Consul.

I could understand if Murat was available at 10pm on the night Madeleine was declared missing (he was apparently at home and heard none of the mayhem). It would make perfect sense to engage any available bilingual speaker for a few hours the following day. After those initial hours I can't understand why Murat would be anything but a single bloke living with his mother who was in the vicinity at the alleged time of Madeleine's disappearance. It seems very strange to me that Murat has been associated (I can't verify it either Verdi) on the internet that he was a UK police interpreter, although I'm certain I've read about it on the forum - interpreting for Norfolk Police if I recall correctly. I cannot understand why Murat was an  interpreter unless he was hired - if he wasn't hired then I give up on ever finding out what happened to Madeleine because it makes everything a shambles.

Does anyone have a written opinion from Goncalo Amaral to hand as to the inclusion of Murat?



Either way it's pretty odd for the PJ not to immediately secure a registered translator to take witness statements and not 'the bloke from up the road'.

Robert Murat's presence in the case makes me go mmmmmmm
avatar
aquila

Posts : 8888
Reputation : 1799
Join date : 2011-09-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by Verdi on 13.08.16 15:32

POLICIA JUDICIARIA
DEPARTMENT OF CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION OF PORTIMAO

MEMORANDUM RELATED TO INFORMATION ESTABLISHED VIA INFORMAL CONTACT WITH ROBERT MURAT ON 12/05/2007:

Has lived in Almadena (Lagos);
Has a brother who suffers from Dyslexia
Questioned regarding the possible scenarios for the solution of the crime states:

1. that the recent offer of €1.000.000 may have the opposite effect of creating more abductions in Portugal in the future, namely carried out by Russians and Romanians; that the Russians are particularly cold when it comes to questions of money;

2. that the solution to the present case is in the resort and that the PJ have certainly come to understand this;

States that the locale of Baroes is a locale where potential paedophiles exist interested in abducting children;

He grew up in an area called Essen or Lessen, in the south of Norfolk and north of Southfolk (England);

Related the case of an English abductor who due to media pressure released his victim, but in another case a 10 year old was murdered by a paedophile who buried her next to military base in Southfolk;

Stated that he intended to rent a car as his car was being used for reasons he did not specify;

That on this night he had a dinner booked in Lagos;

That he served as a translator for the Northfolk police in situations where threats of a racist nature were made against Portuguese members of the community there.

Signed,
The Inspector Chief Reis Santos

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ROBERT-MURAT.htm

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
avatar
Verdi
Moderator/Researcher

Posts : 8955
Reputation : 3952
Join date : 2015-02-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by Verdi on 13.08.16 15:35

@aquila wrote:
Either way it's pretty odd for the PJ not to immediately secure a registered translator to take witness statements and not 'the bloke from up the road'.
As far as I recall, he just walked in off the street and offered his services as a translator but I need to check the detail later.

mmmmm indeed!

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
avatar
Verdi
Moderator/Researcher

Posts : 8955
Reputation : 3952
Join date : 2015-02-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by aquila on 13.08.16 15:40

@Verdi wrote:POLICIA JUDICIARIA
DEPARTMENT OF CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION OF PORTIMAO

MEMORANDUM RELATED TO INFORMATION ESTABLISHED VIA INFORMAL CONTACT WITH ROBERT MURAT ON 12/05/2007:

Has lived in Almadena (Lagos);
Has a brother who suffers from Dyslexia
Questioned regarding the possible scenarios for the solution of the crime states:

1. that the recent offer of €1.000.000 may have the opposite effect of creating more abductions in Portugal in the future, namely carried out by Russians and Romanians; that the Russians are particularly cold when it comes to questions of money;

2. that the solution to the present case is in the resort and that the PJ have certainly come to understand this;

States that the locale of Baroes is a locale where potential paedophiles exist interested in abducting children;

He grew up in an area called Essen or Lessen, in the south of Norfolk and north of Southfolk (England);

Related the case of an English abductor who due to media pressure released his victim, but in another case a 10 year old was murdered by a paedophile who buried her next to military base in Southfolk;

Stated that he intended to rent a car as his car was being used for reasons he did not specify;

That on this night he had a dinner booked in Lagos;

That he served as a translator for the Northfolk police in situations where threats of a racist nature were made against Portuguese members of the community there.

Signed,
The Inspector Chief Reis Santos

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ROBERT-MURAT.htm
As ever Verdi, you can put your finger on the button and provide links. Just one thing though - in the opening gambit what on earth does Murat's brother's dyslexia have to do with the price of biscuits?
avatar
aquila

Posts : 8888
Reputation : 1799
Join date : 2011-09-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by aquila on 13.08.16 15:49

@Verdi wrote:POLICIA JUDICIARIA
DEPARTMENT OF CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION OF PORTIMAO

MEMORANDUM RELATED TO INFORMATION ESTABLISHED VIA INFORMAL CONTACT WITH ROBERT MURAT ON 12/05/2007:

Has lived in Almadena (Lagos);
Has a brother who suffers from Dyslexia
Questioned regarding the possible scenarios for the solution of the crime states:

1. that the recent offer of €1.000.000 may have the opposite effect of creating more abductions in Portugal in the future, namely carried out by Russians and Romanians; that the Russians are particularly cold when it comes to questions of money;

2. that the solution to the present case is in the resort and that the PJ have certainly come to understand this;

States that the locale of Baroes is a locale where potential paedophiles exist interested in abducting children;

He grew up in an area called Essen or Lessen, in the south of Norfolk and north of Southfolk (England);

Related the case of an English abductor who due to media pressure released his victim, but in another case a 10 year old was murdered by a paedophile who buried her next to military base in Southfolk;

Stated that he intended to rent a car as his car was being used for reasons he did not specify;

That on this night he had a dinner booked in Lagos;

That he served as a translator for the Northfolk police in situations where threats of a racist nature were made against Portuguese members of the community there.

Signed,
The Inspector Chief Reis Santos

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ROBERT-MURAT.htm
I'm presuming this observation is after the fact Murat was engaged as an interpreter and had been declared arguido (where he went on to make well over half a million pounds in damages from the UK Press) - I can actually feel bile in my stomach as to the machinations of this dreadful cover up.
avatar
aquila

Posts : 8888
Reputation : 1799
Join date : 2011-09-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by aquila on 13.08.16 16:20

I just want to add, Murat wasn't a translator he was an interpreter.
avatar
aquila

Posts : 8888
Reputation : 1799
Join date : 2011-09-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by Nina on 13.08.16 22:16

@Verdi wrote:Somehow, judging by his CV, I can't imagine Robert Murat to be anything other than bi-lingual by dual nationality.  My opinion only but the concept of him being flown over by the Foreign and Commonwealth on stand-by as translator for a forthcoming event, appears a trifle far fetched.  Besides, the information known so far about Robert Murat and his movements during that week and latterly, do nothing to suggest such a scenario.

Still, anything's possible - within reason.  This is a very informative link on the subject..

https://nationalcareersservice.direct.gov.uk/advice/planning/jobprofiles/Pages/translator.aspx

From my experience, when the services of a translator is required when abroad, the local consulate will provide contact details for local accredited translators, the consulate do not pay for the service.  Again in my opinion, Robert Murat was supplied, so to speak, to act as translator by persons of interest on a local level, not some higher being - akin to his mother, Jenny Murat, setting-up a street stall for people to report information if they feared the police or had some other reason not to present themselves before the police.  The curious thing is of course, his behaviour whilst hanging around the police station, as reported by Inspector Pedro Varanda.

I know Murat claimed to have worked as a translator for the police back in the UK but I've never seen anything to officialy confirm that claim, nor and more to the point, any indication that he had previously been asked to translate for the PJ  - despite the extensive British ex-pat community in and around Praia da Luz.
He spoke English and he  spoke Portuguese. Does that make him an accredited official interoperator? We recently had to have an official Spanish document translated for legal use and did it through the Consul and it cost many euros.
To me Murat was a pushy but friendly young man who could speak both languages, end of.

____________________
Not one more cent from me.
avatar
Nina

Posts : 2861
Reputation : 339
Join date : 2011-06-16
Age : 75

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by Verdi on 13.08.16 23:31

@aquila wrote:I just want to add, Murat wasn't a translator he was an interpreter.
Yes, quite correct, Robert Murat was acting interpreter for the witness statements taken by the PJ.  An interpreter translates the spoken word and a translator interprets the written word.  An important difference.

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
avatar
Verdi
Moderator/Researcher

Posts : 8955
Reputation : 3952
Join date : 2015-02-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by Verdi on 13.08.16 23:45

The Truth of the Lie - Goncalo Amaral

Chapter 7:  Suspicious Behaviour and Contradictions

The Murat Case

I [Goncalo Amaral] am about to make enquiries of the police officer on duty when the individual [Robert Murat] comes back from his walk and greets him as he passes.

You know that man?

Yes, he presented himself to the GNR on Friday morning and offered his services as an interpreter.  He is of English origin but speaks good Portuguese. He’s called Robert Murat.

As the law demands, all foreign people interviewed by the police must have the benefit of an interpreter. In this investigation, the considerable number of interviews we had to conduct in record time forced us to call on the services of volunteers.

And this guy, you checked him out? No criminal record or trouble with the law?

No, no, it’s all OK, but I didn’t know he lived here. It’s true that his house is on the route taken by the abductor.

Stay here, carry on being friendly with him; I’m going to Portimão to see what we’ve got on him: we’ve got to find out more about this guy.

I immediately telephone the team to alert them. The Director of the Department of Criminal Investigation in Faro has to be involved in a meeting the same morning, where we will discuss the case of Robert Murat. We decide to request the latter’s help again in order not to lose sight of him. We must act with the utmost speed, because Madeleine could be in one of the houses he has access to.

The investigators continue to check the information we have about him. He is English, aged 33 and is separated from his wife. The latter lives in Great Britain with their daughter; the latter is nearly the same age as Madeleine and looks like her. The English journalist to whom he gave this information during an interview was immediately distrusting of him and the reasons that motivated him to help the police.

Murat has lived with his mother in Vila da Luz for several years, but he goes to England regularly. Back from his last stay in Exeter on May 1st, he has to return there on the 9th. He is ready to postpone his departure, desirous above all, he states, of helping the police to find Madeleine.

His behaviour starts to seriously intrigue us. He often makes reference to similar cases that happened in the United Kingdom and which he seems to know in detail. He displays suspicious curiosity and seeks to know more. He offers to help us identify possible suspects. He knows the workings of the Ocean Club and the habits of the holiday-makers very well. He even, allegedly, tried secretly to access the investigation files. It is also known that he visits web sites of a pornographic nature.

His mother has set up a desk near the Tapas restaurant in order to gather and give out information about Madeleine. We don’t know if this woman’s actions are philanthropic in nature, or if she is hoping to keep well-informed of all the information circulating about the case. Members of the British agency CEOP (Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre), take a close interest in Murat and work to develop his psychological profile...

http://truthofthelie.com/the-book/chapter-7/
----------

It's interesting to note that, according to Dr. Amaral's book,  Robert Murat had already been attracting attention prior to the above - indeed there is even mention of him on the night of 3rd/4th May e.g.

'The individual seen in the gardens of the Ocean Club on Wednesday May 2nd, not far from apartment 5A is identified: he’s a 53 year-old British gardener who has worked a few times for Robert Murat’s family’s gardening company'

'They conclude that they weren’t involved in Madeleine’s disappearance. In fact, the man in the photo was with his daughter – and there was nothing suspicious about his behaviour; as for the others, they had met Murat during the searches organised to find Madeleine.'

http://truthofthelie.com/the-book/chapter-5/

Robert Murat is an enigma to say the least.

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
avatar
Verdi
Moderator/Researcher

Posts : 8955
Reputation : 3952
Join date : 2015-02-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by Verdi on 14.08.16 0:01

@aquila wrote:
I'm presuming this observation is after the fact Murat was engaged as an interpreter and had been declared arguido (where he went on to make well over half a million pounds in damages from the UK Press)
I think some people conveniently forget that Murat also made a considerable amount of money out of the UK press, when criticizing the McCanns for doing the same thing.

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
avatar
Verdi
Moderator/Researcher

Posts : 8955
Reputation : 3952
Join date : 2015-02-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by Verdi on 14.08.16 0:07

@Nina wrote:
He spoke English and he  spoke Portuguese. Does that make him an accredited official interoperator? We recently had to have an official Spanish document translated for legal use and did it through the Consul and it cost many euros.
Quite so! 

Your snazzy little contribution to the Oxford English, be it deliberate or a typo, perhaps should read 'interloper' - cos that's exactly what he was.

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
avatar
Verdi
Moderator/Researcher

Posts : 8955
Reputation : 3952
Join date : 2015-02-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by Nina on 14.08.16 19:14

@Verdi wrote:
@Nina wrote:
He spoke English and he  spoke Portuguese. Does that make him an accredited official interoperator? We recently had to have an official Spanish document translated for legal use and did it through the Consul and it cost many euros.
Quite so! 

Your snazzy little contribution to the Oxford English, be it deliberate or a typo, perhaps should read 'interloper' - cos that's exactly what he was.
winkwink  good spot.

____________________
Not one more cent from me.
avatar
Nina

Posts : 2861
Reputation : 339
Join date : 2011-06-16
Age : 75

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by Verdi on 14.08.16 19:57

The only mention I can find about Robert Murat's past services as translator for Norfolk police, is by way of press articles.  I haven't come across any claim by Robert Murat himself in this respect, the assertions seem to have been made by local people and ex-colleagues - doesn't surprise me one iota.  Murat worked for Matthews turkey farm at some stage of illustrious his career, I can image such an establishment would attract Portuguese immigrant workers so I can quite believe Murat would make himself available to assist fellow workers. 

One press article said he was paid piecemeal by Norfolk police, not sure I believe that - I think he's more likely to have volunteered his services.  My reason being, official police work would command an accredited interpreter /translator, not an unqualified local who just happens to be bi-lingual.  Not to say he didn't assist people in need as a translator but not in an official capacity. 

Robert Murat's arguido witness statement - 14th May 2007

'He doe not have technical and professional courses [qualifications], but attended an accountancy course in the UK.'

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
avatar
Verdi
Moderator/Researcher

Posts : 8955
Reputation : 3952
Join date : 2015-02-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by Verdi on 14.08.16 20:10

Something I found of more interest (at least to me), is an early report by Sky News which could well explain the reason behind the telephone conversation between Jenny Murat, Robert Murat of Martin Brunt..

Madeleine Case:   Who Is Robert Murat?

Sky news - Wednesday May 16, 2007   [no longer available online]

Robert Murat is a well-known figure among journalists in Portugal.
 
He worked as a translator for the local police and was on good terms with them.
 
He told reporters he had been in the McCann's apartment in the aftermath of the abduction, translating for the police.
 
Mr Murat, who is believed to have a four-year-old daughter in Norfolk, also worked as a fixer for Sky News for several days. [A fixer -well  informed local who assist foreign correspondents]. 
 
But among journalists he was regarded with suspicion.
 
A joke began spreading among the press pack that he was the "prime suspect".
 
And the joke spread to Mr Murat as well, with him introducing himself as the chief suspect, Sky's Ian Woods said in Portugal.
 
Woods took him aside and pressed him as to why he was so involved in the case.
 
"He told me he had an estranged wife and a daughter and he was upset because Madeleine reminded him of his daughter," Woods said.
 
"People began to ask who he was. After a few days people were getting a bit suspicious as to who he was and why he was around so much.
 
"I asked him to do an interview but he refused, which was unusual because everyone was happy to do an interview."
 
Woods asked twice if Mr Murat could do an interview for Sky News.
 
Woods said Mr Murat left the area a few days ago because he had become concerned about the attention he was receiving.
 
"He became very spooked by the news photographers who were taking pictures of him," Woods said.
 
"He became uncomfortable with the amount of attention he was getting.
 
"He told me he was going to withdraw from the scene because he felt he was becoming a distraction."
 
Mr Murat lives with his mother Jennifer, who is a long-time Algarve resident.
 
She had set up a stall on the sea front and asked people who did not want to give information to police to come to her.

[Thanks to mccannfiles.com]

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
avatar
Verdi
Moderator/Researcher

Posts : 8955
Reputation : 3952
Join date : 2015-02-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Robert Murat,Patsy?

Post by willowthewisp on 15.08.16 13:16

Hi Verdi,When able to sit back so to speak and break down the main "Protagonist" in this case,it all evolves around a hell of a lot of persons connected to Rupert Murdoch and his fiefdom clan of miscreants,who have orchestrated so much in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann it seems,apparently with no connection to the event?
First reported to Sky News,Telegraph News paper 3/4 May 2007 confirmation time and date?
Robert Murat 30 April 2007 Return to Prai Da Luiz which to this day questions still remain unanswered?
Martin **nt,Robert Murat mysterious phone contacts,Ian Woods Sky News,Lori Campbell,Clarence Mitchell,Soham murders and unsolved murders of Jill Dando,Daniel Morgan and Police corruption and DCS Hamish Campbell,DCI Andy Redwood? 
Yet it was his News Paper,NotW that formulated the One Million pound reward for the"Safe Return of Madeleine McCann"and was involved in the Hacking of phones enterprise,that brought about it's demise?  Then factor in the Non-disclosure of certain peoples phone activation and the reason for the purchase of New mobile phones by(DP)?
Russell O'Brien speaks with Robert Murat on the morning of 4 May,Stephen Carpenter,also engages with Murat,who introduces him to Gerry(I'm not going to comment on that,Video) of knowing Robert Murat prior to Madeleine's reported disappearance 3 May 2007? 
2008/9 Defamation claim begins?
2010/11 set up of Operation Grange,Rebekah Brooks,Theresa May,David Cameron?
So after nearly six years of a mock investigation and costing more than Sixteen Million pounds,which excluded Nine persons who had stated having seen Madeleine during the holiday of being involved in any Criminal Activity in regard to her disappearance,they still have been unable to find the "Suspects"who perpetrated this vile act?
2016 Defamation case,Supreme Court hearing and case shelved on Operation Grange, remain unresolved?
Robert Murat the Patsy,not being Smithman and not knowing the Irish Dad who did the ID pictures for the "Private Investigators",withheld for five years from the public of which the parents of Madeleine knew about their possession?
Why are the Metropolitan Police unable to confirm or Deny the Police handler,Martin Grime and his Dogs,Eddie,Keela,alerting to possible DNA from Madeleine?
After all, they did proceed to prosecute Barry George on the single fleck of"Gun"residue on Barry George's coat didn't you DCS Hamish Campbell?
avatar
willowthewisp

Posts : 2354
Reputation : 893
Join date : 2015-05-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by aquila on 15.08.16 18:15

The PJ need to explain the terms of engagement of Murat. Was he actually on their list of authorised interpreters? Had the Portuguese Police previously used the services of Murat?

Murat was only too happy to speak to Martin Brunt which surely isn't the norm for an interpreter in a criminal investigation is it - especially in Portugal with their laws of judicial secrecy.

It's down to the PJ to state whether they officially engaged Robert Murat. If they had never used his services before and he was not a registered interpreter then the whole thing is a bloody shambles open to media manipulation and possible corruption from others, although some people think he was (and still is) a nice bloke from up the road who was just being helpful.

The media paid Murat a lot of money in damages - a fraction of the money the media made from Madeleine headlines.

The media did not attempt to explain any official status Murat had as an interpreter.

Who knows what Murat was interpreting (both ways)? who can verify its accuracy?

Murat's credentials for being selected by the PJ need to be exposed - and it's funny how the McCanns didn't ask about that. I would have.

Just my opinion as usual.
avatar
aquila

Posts : 8888
Reputation : 1799
Join date : 2011-09-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by Verdi on 15.08.16 20:11

@willowthewisp wrote:Hi Verdi,When able to sit back so to speak and break down the main "Protagonist" in this case,it all evolves around a hell of a lot of persons connected to Rupert Murdoch and his fiefdom clan of miscreants,who have orchestrated so much in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann it seems,apparently with no connection to the event?
Yes, I've said on many occasions - all roads lead to Rupert Murdoch.

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
avatar
Verdi
Moderator/Researcher

Posts : 8955
Reputation : 3952
Join date : 2015-02-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by Verdi on 15.08.16 20:14

From the comments made by Goncalo Amaral in his book as reproduced up-page, he didn't know Murat nor did his colleague know that Murat was a local resident.  That to me indicates that Murat had not acted as translator/interpreter for the PJ prior to the 4th May 2007.  Besides, he isn't qualified - it might be acceptable to engage the assistance of a local ex-pat to translate informally, say for example on the night of the 3rd/4th May when Madeleine was first reported missing but recording a sworn statement that could be used as evidence in a court of law is a different matter altogether.  It just isn't done!

When some kindly soul offered to assist the McCanns on the night of 3rd, by acting as a go-between, she got a short sharp shrift from the acid tongue of Ms Healy so yes, it's surprising the McCanns didn't question Murat's involvement - especially as they tried to implicate him in Madeleine's disappearance.

A bit off the scale of reasoned thinking but considering his alleged connection with journalists, his acting translator/interpreter for the PJ, his extensive local connections - is it possible he could have been working indirectly for the McCanns, or at least working with the global conspiracy?  Was he the super-grass circumventing the official secrecy laws, supplying information about the investigation to the McCanns, the media, the UK police?  He is a jack of all trades after all - the sort of person at the other end of the phone when you need to 'get a man in'.  What better way to take the heat off than have him identified as a suspect?

I'm earning my reputation here so expect to be pelted with rotten tomatoes, stale buns and mouldy cabbage.  It's all in a good cause.

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
avatar
Verdi
Moderator/Researcher

Posts : 8955
Reputation : 3952
Join date : 2015-02-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by aquila on 15.08.16 20:30

Amaral was in charge of a major investigation. He was in charge of who was selected as an interpreter - please don't mix up translator with interpreter.

The PJ needs to verify the credentials of Murat and why he was chosen.
avatar
aquila

Posts : 8888
Reputation : 1799
Join date : 2011-09-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 4 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum