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Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

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How did Robert Murat become a PJ translator?

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Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by sharonl on 16.08.16 18:21

@BlueBag wrote:
@sallypelt wrote: Was Murat sent to Portugal, at short notice, by a higher authority, and not called by the McCanns or any other member of the group?
That is an interesting thought.

The T7 did try and stitch him up which means he wasn't in with the in crowd.


On the face of it, It certainly does seem that way, but then, if we look more closely, there was no evidence against Murat. After all, he did not kidnap Madeleine and there was no way that the PJ or anyone else could prove that he did.  Murat knew that he was safe, even more so when Smith came along to get him off the hook.  So is it possible that Murat agreed to be a temporary suspect in return for a large sum from the press who got a good selling story out of all this?  If he really was a scapegoat, why did his mother set up a stall asking for people to pass on information to her instead of going to the police?  Why has Murat always maintained that Madeleine was abducted? Why the inconsistencies in his statements?  Why was he snooping around and asking pertinent questions at the police station?  Murat has said a lot of things like he was a scapegoat, he was going to sue Jane Tanner, but were these quotes just for our ears and to distance himself from the McCanns and their friends?

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Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by Tony Bennett on 16.08.16 19:00

@sharonl wrote:
On the face of it, It certainly does seem that way, but then, if we look more closely, there was no evidence against Murat. After all, he did not kidnap Madeleine and there was no way that the PJ or anyone else could prove that he did.  Murat knew that he was safe, even more so when Smith came along to get him off the hook.  

So is it possible that Murat agreed to be a temporary suspect in return for a large sum from the press who got a good selling story out of all this? 

Looks like that could have been a big part of the deal.

If he really was a scapegoat, why did his mother set up a stall asking for people to pass on information to her instead of going to the police? 

Because Murat told her to? He was also perhaps instrumental in getting Mrs Fenn to make up stories? - think of his conversation to a GNR officer in the early days, you can bet the purpose of that exchange was to get the police to talk to Mrs Fenn.   

Why has Murat always maintained that Madeleine was abducted?

Because he's been told to?

Why the inconsistencies in his statements? 

Frankly, these were not inconsistencies, these were flat contradiction - lies in other words - to cover up what he was REALLY doing on the Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday of that week. So what WAS he really up to those few days? 
   
Why was he snooping around and asking pertinent questions at the police station? 

He was under instructions from those higher up the food chain?

Murat has said a lot of things like he was a scapegoat, he was going to sue Jane Tanner, but were these quotes just for our ears and to distance himself from the McCanns and their friends?

All part of the charade - to influence public perceptions?

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2007 (28 June) Dr Gerry McCann: “I have no doubt we will be able to sustain a high profile for Madeleine’s disappearance in the long-term”.

2017 (February) Dr Kate McCannthrust into a global bidding war…news giants battle to sign her up for the 10th anniversary…offered huge bids…bombarded with offers…30 sitting on the table…getting new bids every other day…one told Kate and Gerry: ‘Name your price!’
                        

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Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by Verdi on 16.08.16 20:34

So cutting out all the uncertainty, what's left to consider?

A three year old child, Madeleine, vanishes.

The police are called on the night of 3rd May.

The GNR and PJ are welcomed at the crime scene by immediate claims of abduction and paedophilia.

Police are presented with a hand-written timeline for the night [translated by whom is unknown] and Jane Tanner tells of her sighting.

A search is organised which continues until the early hours of 4th May without success.

Police ask for photograph of Madeleine for identification purposes.  After much buggering about the police are given an outdated image despite the parent's camera having a perfect image of her taken at the Ocean Club playground and/or swimming pool.

Police tell group they must not contact the press.  Tapas group ignore the instruction and contact UK press during the night and early morning of 3rd/4th May.

A local man, Robert Murat, turns up offering his services as translator/interpreter at either the crime scene on the night of the 3rd/4th or the police station on the morning of 4th May - depending which version you read.

Within hours/days, an inordinate number of UK officials arrive in Praia da Luz.  UK police, lawyers, diplomatic staff (including the ambassador), the CEOP etc.

Within a very short period of time Robert Murat is suspected of involvement in child's disappearance which rapidly leads to his being made an arguido and subject to full investigation by the police.

The group of friends suddenly decide that it could have been this man, Robert Murat, that Jane Tanner saw outside the McCanns apartment carrying a child on the night of 3rd May.

Focus on Robert Murat rapidly gains speed.

The investigation into Robert Murat extends to the neighbouring regions of Sagres and Burgau.

The name Robert Murat is attracting much media attention for which he is later compensated by a huge out of court settlement.

Meanwhile the McCanns are entertaining friends and relations at the expense of Warners Holidays and travelling across Europe/North Africa on some awareness campaign - all the time claiming abduction and emphasizing a paedophile/child trafficking connection.

Then came Eddie the EVRD and Keela the bloodhound - ooops!

The PJ continued to investigate the disappearance of Madeleine McCann whilst the force of the UK establishment did everything to prevent the truth from coming out.

Robert Murat has served a purpose - he's diverted attention away from Madeleine's parents and left a fishy pong and the biggest f-up in history.  Well, almost!

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Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by Verdi on 16.08.16 20:51

@sharonl wrote:
@BlueBag wrote:
@sallypelt wrote: Was Murat sent to Portugal, at short notice, by a higher authority, and not called by the McCanns or any other member of the group?
That is an interesting thought.

The T7 did try and stitch him up which means he wasn't in with the in crowd.


On the face of it, It certainly does seem that way, but then, if we look more closely, there was no evidence against Murat. After all, he did not kidnap Madeleine and there was no way that the PJ or anyone else could prove that he did.  Murat knew that he was safe, even more so when Smith came along to get him off the hook.  So is it possible that Murat agreed to be a temporary suspect in return for a large sum from the press who got a good selling story out of all this?  If he really was a scapegoat, why did his mother set up a stall asking for people to pass on information to her instead of going to the police?  Why has Murat always maintained that Madeleine was abducted? Why the inconsistencies in his statements?  Why was he snooping around and asking pertinent questions at the police station?  Murat has said a lot of things like he was a scapegoat, he was going to sue Jane Tanner, but were these quotes just for our ears and to distance himself from the McCanns and their friends?
Apropos of the Smith sighting, the Tanner sighting and any other blooming sighting, I've said before and I will say again - there is no way that anyone would carry the body of a lifeless child around the streets at around 10:00 pm. 

The notion is too stupid for words.

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Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by Guest on 16.08.16 21:45

@Verdi wrote:
@sharonl wrote:
@BlueBag wrote:
@sallypelt wrote: Was Murat sent to Portugal, at short notice, by a higher authority, and not called by the McCanns or any other member of the group?
That is an interesting thought.

The T7 did try and stitch him up which means he wasn't in with the in crowd.


On the face of it, It certainly does seem that way, but then, if we look more closely, there was no evidence against Murat. After all, he did not kidnap Madeleine and there was no way that the PJ or anyone else could prove that he did.  Murat knew that he was safe, even more so when Smith came along to get him off the hook.  So is it possible that Murat agreed to be a temporary suspect in return for a large sum from the press who got a good selling story out of all this?  If he really was a scapegoat, why did his mother set up a stall asking for people to pass on information to her instead of going to the police?  Why has Murat always maintained that Madeleine was abducted? Why the inconsistencies in his statements?  Why was he snooping around and asking pertinent questions at the police station?  Murat has said a lot of things like he was a scapegoat, he was going to sue Jane Tanner, but were these quotes just for our ears and to distance himself from the McCanns and their friends?
Apropos of the Smith sighting, the Tanner sighting and any other blooming sighting, I've said before and I will say again - there is no way that anyone would carry the body of a lifeless child around the streets at around 10:00 pm. 

The notion is too stupid for words.

Tad of common sense there.  Well done!
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Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by Verdi on 16.08.16 23:55

The PJ investigation and the UK establishment's interference were running concurrently, certainly during the summer of 2007.  The PJ were unfortunately handicapped by a lack of knowledge about what what going on behind the scenes, so to speak, the UK establishment however had the advantage in so far as they knew exactly what was going on with the PJ investigation.

Against hidden agendas, the PJ however continued to try and solve the mystery of Madeleine McCann's disappearance, with Robert Murat off the radar the focus started to turn towards the McCanns - then came  Eddie the EVRD and Keela the bloodhound.

Eddie and Keela didn't speak abduction or paedophilia, they spoke of cadavar and blood which seriously compromised the UK establishments position.  Samples harvested were sent to UK forensic laboratories for analysis - from all the samples processed not one turned-up a positive result to advance the PJ's investigation but the damage was done - Eddie and Keela couldn't be so easily dismissed.

Now what do we do?  I know - get rid of that nuisance case coordinator, get the McCanns back to the UK, scale back the PJ investigation and then, after an acceptable lapse of time, archive the case as unsolved to be re-opened if further tangible evidence becomes available.

With no official force  investigating the case, or as the McCanns would paraphrase - no one proactively searching for their daughter, the campaign was taken over by a string of dubious private detectives with nothing to gain but a fat bank balance.  Then along comes Operation Grange, the quintessential ingredient assigned to review, re-investigate and solve the mystery of Madeleine McCanns disappearance.  So five + years later and no further forward with talk of winding down Operation Grange in the foreseeable future.  There you have it..

PJ legitimate investigation v. UK establishment illegitimate operations.

However it was orchestrated, by whom when and where, is a matter of conjecture but one thing is for sure - Robert Murat played his part to perfection.  Through his cooperation (self sacrifice?) the UK establishment was able to lead the PJ into an extravagant diversion, chasing fabricated intelligence and so the PJ failed to accomplish their goal - to unravel the mystery of Madeleine McCann.

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Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by Tony Bennett on 17.08.16 0:08

@Verdi wrote:...one thing is for sure - Robert Murat played his part to perfection.  Through his cooperation (self sacrifice?) the UK establishment was able to lead the PJ into an extravagant diversion, chasing fabricated intelligence and so the PJ failed to accomplish their goal - to unravel the mystery of Madeleine McCann.
And at what precise moment did Amaral and his team decide to arrest Murat and make him a suspect?

It was the moment that Murat walked past a police van, late on Sunday 13 May.

Inside that van was Jane Tanner, who had been briefed earlier that day by Detective Chief Superintendent Bob Small of Leicestershire Police, and two members of Control Risks Group.

Did Small tell Tanner to identify Murat?

Did Murat actually know he was going to be identified? He breezed into his arguido interview without calling for his solicitor, didn't he? 

What a game, what theatre, what play-acting, all played out in public in the mass media, for consumption by billions of people who all know the name and face of Madeleine McCann.

As Kate McCann would often say of how 'well' husband Gerry did on TV: "Another great performance"

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2007 (28 June) Dr Gerry McCann: “I have no doubt we will be able to sustain a high profile for Madeleine’s disappearance in the long-term”.

2017 (February) Dr Kate McCannthrust into a global bidding war…news giants battle to sign her up for the 10th anniversary…offered huge bids…bombarded with offers…30 sitting on the table…getting new bids every other day…one told Kate and Gerry: ‘Name your price!’
                        

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Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by Verdi on 17.08.16 0:31

I meant to say also, the reasons given for Murat becoming a suspect I always thought to be rather flimsy.  Some UK journalist (an associate of Clarence Mitchell) who thought he behaved suspiciously and a load of garbled contradictory stories spread abroad by the Tapas group and assorted adherents like Charlotte Pennington, who at some stage said she saw Murat lurking around the Ocean Club reception on the night of 3rd May?  Oh - and he lived a few yards from where Madeleine was abducted (cough!).

Hardly convincing criteria for suspecting someone of being involved in the disappearance of a three year old child.

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Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by MayMuse on 17.08.16 8:58

I think that "lady" journalist was the same one who reported in the Holly & Jessica murder by Ian Huntley, forget her name and stand to be corrected. 

Either way, the media in the beginning got it very very wrong; always baffled that those well travelled journo's took the McCanns story verbatim!

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Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by Verdi on 17.08.16 11:31

@MayMuse wrote:I think that "lady" journalist was the same one who reported in the Holly & Jessica murder by Ian Huntley, forget her name and stand to be corrected. 

Either way, the media in the beginning got it very very wrong; always baffled that those well travelled journo's took the McCanns story verbatim!
It was Ms Lori Campbell of the Sunday Mirror, she first reported Robert Murat's suspicious behaviour to Leicestershire police on the 6th May, 2007 I believe.  She was later interviewed by Ian Woods of Sky News on 14th May 2007 [a journalist interviewing a journalist, how ironic is that] - this is the transcript..

Lori Campbell: I was so suspicious by the Monday that I just felt I had a duty to pass those suspicions on. I spoke to my news desk back in London and then they said they thought that that was the right thing to do.

Ian Woods: Now, let's discuss why we were a little suspicious of him, because your suspicions were aroused first of all and you shared those suspicions with me. I then talked to him, investigated it, tried to find out whether his story was true and I have to say I came back and said his story checked out. What first of all made you suspicious of the fact that he was spending so much time around the scene?

LC: It was just very reminiscent of the Soham murders was my first instinct. There was a local guy. He was hanging around the scene an awful lot. He was asking us questions about what was going on in the investigation, maybe trying to find out what we knew and he just seemed to be giving an air that he was authoritative and he was working in an official capacity for the police. And I was just very suspicious about that, that they would take on board a man who was just a local guy. They have many people, I am sure, who speak Portuguese and English. Why would they ask him to, you know, go into the apartment, speak to the family and have that sort of contact with them?

IW: Now, how co-operative was Robert when you were talking to him, because first of all he wouldn't do any interviews with me. I have asked him to do interviews on camera. He declined and you approached him to do a proper interview and asked his identity and things like that?

LC: Well, he was very vague when I tried to ask about his background. He would chat to me quite openly, but he wouldn't give me his surname. He wouldn't tell me really where he was from, where he lives over here. He wouldn't give me a telephone number for him. And then I asked him what he did for a living. He was very vague. He said he worked for real estate. And I just had a really uneasy feeling about him from day one.

IW: You reported him to who and what was the response?

LC: My first call was to Leicestershire police back in the UK and they took all my details. A detective constable called me back and she suggested that I also speak to somebody out here. We didn't really have a police contact last week. So, I called the British Embassy and they said to speak to a policeman on the scene. So, I walked up to a GNR policeman and said, you know, "I've got suspicions about a gentleman who's been near the scene and I'd just like to pass those on." And one of my main suspicions was that he said he was translating witness statements and I asked them if that could be true and they said, "No, that's highly unlikely."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jExBfGR7Fio

[Thanks to mccannfiles.com]

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Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by Verdi on 17.08.16 11:56

Ambassador John Buck and local Consul Bill Henderson talk to Sky News (Murdoch empire) on 4th May 2007 - the day following Madeleine's reported disappearance..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Azj4CLORnlc

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Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by aquila on 17.08.16 12:10

@Verdi wrote:
@MayMuse wrote:I think that "lady" journalist was the same one who reported in the Holly & Jessica murder by Ian Huntley, forget her name and stand to be corrected. 

Either way, the media in the beginning got it very very wrong; always baffled that those well travelled journo's took the McCanns story verbatim!
It was Ms Lori Campbell of the Sunday Mirror, she first reported Robert Murat's suspicious behaviour to Leicestershire police on the 6th May, 2007 I believe.  She was later interviewed by Ian Woods of Sky News on 14th May 2007 [a journalist interviewing a journalist, how ironic is that] - this is the transcript..

Lori Campbell: I was so suspicious by the Monday that I just felt I had a duty to pass those suspicions on. I spoke to my news desk back in London and then they said they thought that that was the right thing to do.

Ian Woods: Now, let's discuss why we were a little suspicious of him, because your suspicions were aroused first of all and you shared those suspicions with me. I then talked to him, investigated it, tried to find out whether his story was true and I have to say I came back and said his story checked out. What first of all made you suspicious of the fact that he was spending so much time around the scene?

LC: It was just very reminiscent of the Soham murders was my first instinct. There was a local guy. He was hanging around the scene an awful lot. He was asking us questions about what was going on in the investigation, maybe trying to find out what we knew and he just seemed to be giving an air that he was authoritative and he was working in an official capacity for the police. And I was just very suspicious about that, that they would take on board a man who was just a local guy. They have many people, I am sure, who speak Portuguese and English. Why would they ask him to, you know, go into the apartment, speak to the family and have that sort of contact with them?

IW: Now, how co-operative was Robert when you were talking to him, because first of all he wouldn't do any interviews with me. I have asked him to do interviews on camera. He declined and you approached him to do a proper interview and asked his identity and things like that?

LC: Well, he was very vague when I tried to ask about his background. He would chat to me quite openly, but he wouldn't give me his surname. He wouldn't tell me really where he was from, where he lives over here. He wouldn't give me a telephone number for him. And then I asked him what he did for a living. He was very vague. He said he worked for real estate. And I just had a really uneasy feeling about him from day one.

IW: You reported him to who and what was the response?

LC: My first call was to Leicestershire police back in the UK and they took all my details. A detective constable called me back and she suggested that I also speak to somebody out here. We didn't really have a police contact last week. So, I called the British Embassy and they said to speak to a policeman on the scene. So, I walked up to a GNR policeman and said, you know, "I've got suspicions about a gentleman who's been near the scene and I'd just like to pass those on." And one of my main suspicions was that he said he was translating witness statements and I asked them if that could be true and they said, "No, that's highly unlikely."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jExBfGR7Fio

[Thanks to mccannfiles.com]
Have you ever experienced a situation where a little vomit springs into your mouth and you have to swallow it?

That's what this interview does to me.
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Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by Verdi on 17.08.16 12:17

So, Lori Campbell of Sunday Mirror is suspicious about the behaviour of Robert Murat which she discusses with Ian Woods of Sky News (also on location) who takes it upon himself to check out Murat.  Sky News interview the Ambassador and local Consul on 4th May and yet..  there is that curious telephone conversation between Martin Brunt (Sky News), Jenny Murat (Robert's mother) and Robert Murat (designated arguido on 15th May 2007) on 15th May 2007..

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BRUNT_MURAT.htm

The plot thickens.

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Ref;Robert Murat Patsy?

Post by willowthewisp on 17.08.16 14:01

Not forgetting how DCI Andy Redwood had Interviewed Robert Murat whilst the Portugal,PJ were present during Operation Grange,imagine if PJ wasn't present what new Revelations could have been revealed(Crime Watch October 2013,Tick,Tocking moving forward clock)?
The Three Portuguese people they wished to re- interview further,needing a Sixth Rogatory letter confirming specific reasons for the Sixth letter,which was never pursued(Their DNA)aka Gun Residue Jill Dando Case,Barry George,Modus Operandi?
Now no further analysis of Scientific evidence needed on Operation Grange,they couldn't re- analyse DNA thought to have to belonged to Madeleine McCann,as they had"Allowed" for it to be destroyed on "Health Grounds",this DNA must have been "Nuclear" for a Police Force to no longer store it as a future reference inquiry,in a still missing child case?
Scotland Yard's Finest,UK based FSS,now combined into the Police Force,covered by know doubt,"Official Secrets Act?
I think the deleted texts and unobtainable phone records may prove one way or another who was involved in Madeleine's disappearance but I could be wrong on this point,but why did(DP)contact UK Authorities on the evening 3 May 2007,also claiming to have seen the Three children alive and well at 18.30 hrs on the same day(like Three little Angels,dressed in White)where as the Dogs alerted to a Red Top?

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Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by Verdi on 17.08.16 15:42

Robert Murat talks to the Daily Mail 2nd June 2007...

"Basically, I'm just an ordinary, straightforward guy who's the victim of the biggest f***-up on this planet - if you'll excuse the language."

Extraordinary choice of words for someone shackled by arguido status only 18 days prior.  Murat is also quoted to have said…

“The only way I’ll survive this is if they catch Madeleine’s abductor"

Abductor Mr. Murat?  Having acted as interpreter for the PJ and having some knowledge of the proceeds of the PJ investigation, didn't it immediately occur to you that something was radically wrong with the abduction theory?  You had an idea what was being claimed by the Tapas group and you had an idea how the investigation was unfolding, so why do you talk of abduction?  Don't you in any way blame the McCanns and their friends for the situation you find yourself in?  Aren't you in some way critical of their behaviour - haven't you got a single harsh word to say against them?

Still, maybe it's okay for you to have this temporary hiatus - maybe the substantial out of court settlement in your favour was adequate compensation for the inconvenience.

[ Posting malfunction addressed and corrected - Mod ]

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Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by MRNOODLES on 17.08.16 21:32

Just my opinion...

Murat before '07 was a bit of a 'copper's nark'.  

Around 20 years ago, areas of Norfolk/Suffolk had a huge influx of Portuguese workers many going to Bernard Matthews and various chicken factories.  With that high number of people, said businesses and local authority agencies would employ literally anybody who was bilingual to explain working details and local authority stuff like paying council tax etc etc. 

Just my opinion, it naturally followed he 'helped' the police out if any criminal activity occurred. It was reported Murat had a shady past.  So it crosses my mind Murat being 'helpful' had more than a hint of 'had to be helpful' mixed with it.  

Spin forward to '07 this incident occurred.  And there was Murat helpful local bloke on the case with the brief of.  Help them out, we'll put a word in for you.  But pass on to us any juicy stuff that would interest us.
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Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by listener on 17.08.16 22:51

Murat had to be used as translator?

None of the local cops, working in a predominantly English tourist/timeshare resort, could speak English?
None of the team sent in the first few days, to investigate a missing child of an English speaking family, could converse in English?

That has always seemed very odd to me because during my visits I found that most Portuguese, working in the tourist areas, shopkeepers, taxi's, hotel/bar-staff, all sorts of jobs/professions including the staff at the resort - they can all converse in English! But the local police can't???
They had to use Murat? Why not one of the MW staff?
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Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by Tony Bennett on 17.08.16 23:40

@listener wrote:Murat had to be used as translator?

None of the local cops, working in a predominantly English tourist/timeshare resort, could speak English?
None of the team sent in the first few days, to investigate a missing child of an English speaking family, could converse in English?

That has always seemed very odd to me because during my visits I found that most Portuguese, working in the tourist areas, shopkeepers, taxi's, hotel/bar-staff, all sorts of jobs/professions including the staff at the resort - they can all converse in English! But the local police can't???
They had to use Murat? Why not one of the MW staff?
I think a good word from good ol', trusty Bill Henderson of the British Embassy to the PJ would have clinched it.

"E's an official interpreter, yer know. Just the man for yer. So 'elpful an' that"

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2007 (28 June) Dr Gerry McCann: “I have no doubt we will be able to sustain a high profile for Madeleine’s disappearance in the long-term”.

2017 (February) Dr Kate McCannthrust into a global bidding war…news giants battle to sign her up for the 10th anniversary…offered huge bids…bombarded with offers…30 sitting on the table…getting new bids every other day…one told Kate and Gerry: ‘Name your price!’
                        

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Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by Verdi on 17.08.16 23:41

I see a degree of confusion trying to rear it's ugly head over this issue - the difference between speaking English and interpreting witness statements in an official capacity for the PJ.  You are quite right @listener in thinking that many people in the vicinity would have spoken English or at the very least understood a little of the spoken word but that doesn't qualify them to act as a translator and/or interpreter for the purpose of recording witness statements.

In my view, in normal circumstances the police would not engage the services of an unqualified local just because the person happens to be of dual nationality and bi-lingual - in this case British and Portuguese.  I know others don't agree with my view and I can't prove myself to be correct but if you think about it logically, such a move would be open to abuse by either side, the police and/or the interpreter.  I posted a link recently showing the expected level of education for an an accredited translator/interpreter applying to work in the field as a professional.  Robert Murat does not qualify - not even close.

Clearly the PJ did engage his assistance but the question remains - why!

Just to add, the British Ambassador to Portugal and the local Consul arrived in Praia da Luz on Friday 4th May - what I wonder did they think of this extraordinary arrangement. Whilst officially Embassy staff have no authority to interfere with a police investigation, which did happen here to a certain extent, they were clearly aware of how matters were developing - why didn't they intervene rather than seemingly condoning such an unorthodox mode of appointing a translator/interpreter?

What he did in his turkey days is only of passing interest but his involvement with the PJ is paramount.  In my opinion.

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Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by April28th on 18.08.16 14:17

@Tony Bennett wrote:
Jorge da Silva was someone Murat claimed to have met several times on 1st, 2nd and 3rd May, mostly in cafes here and there IIRC. Murat claimed that they were discussing his internet website for his proposed new company, 'Romigen'. To put it kindly,  this seemed a most unlikely tale. 

May be of note that both the numbers linked to Murat late on the 30th (between 2320 and 2340) belonged to Michaela Walczuch (2 calls from, one to) and Sergei Malinka (one to, 30 second call). All of these calls were from the Luz Centro tower.

Unlike Sergei, Michaela did not live in Luz, she lived in Lagos. What urgent business did she (who 'hardly interfered with business' according to Malinka) have with future property mogul Malinka in Luz past 2300 on April 30th?

Da Silva was supposedly visited 'out of the blue' by RM and MW at his store (which was closed) on the 1st. Then followed two days of meetings in and around the Lagos Marina (with the final meeting being moved to the Palmares golf course because it was 'too noisy' at SouthWest bar). Da Silva heavily implied in his statement that the final meeting was needlessly extended and he couldn't wait to leave;

'They remained there conversing for about 3 hours, very much at the insistence of Robert. In spite of the witness and his son being hungry, Robert prolonged the conversation, saying that he was not hungry. Only at about 16.00 did Robert and Michaela drop the witness and his son near to their shop.'


Michaela gives a different timeline altogether - for instance she doesn't mention the bank holiday visit to Da Silva (Murat did), and she places herself and Robert at Palmares on the 2nd not the 3rd, saying that after visiting Palmares she had lunch/picked up her child from school, then they went back to the marina to continue meetings with 'the Silvas' between 1600 and 1900 (Da Silva had stated 1600 as the time the Palmares meeting ended - Murat in his 'amended statement' states that this time was spent in Michaela's home - at least he agrees with Da Silva on the date!). She then adds a meeting with the Da Silvas at 'Restaurant Antonio' on the 3rd - a venue some 2.5km from the Marina.

Another odd element - Da Silva mentions that they wanted to arrange a reimaging of the 'Romigen website', which had previously been Sergei Malinka's responsibility, by Jason (Jorge's son). Yet Sergei was obviously in full contact with Michaela and Robert. It's a shame Jason's statements are not public record.

I get the feeling the meetings with Da Silva may have been 'killing time' (how much time needs to be spent discussing business card printing?), and it was his business with Pagarete (also based in Lagos) which was of real importance. Perhaps a fuller examination of Michaela, Sergei and Jorge's statements will unravel some more of this. At least one of them appears to be reading from a different script.
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Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by Verdi on 18.08.16 20:47


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Robert Murat,Patsy?

Post by willowthewisp on 18.08.16 21:16

Hi April28th, Thesis,If things were being set in motion on the dates and timings you mention,person's likely to be spoken to of their whereabouts by the relevant Authorities,would need to have Alibi's confirm where they were at certain parts of any investigation to possible connections as to what followed after your arrival and up to the 3 May 2007,Suspects or Witness,Golf Club third meeting,did Eucendes work at this Golf Club?
One Mystery which sticks out,is the Car Robert Murat owned,is suddenly out of Commission and Mr Murat had to hire a replacement car?
So Robert Murat leaves the UK and arrives in Portugal 1st May 2007,then finds out his car cannot be used during the arranged meetings,as his Mother is using her own vehicle during this period,Coincidence? bignono
So your a resident and have no close friends able to lend or give you a vehicle to borrow for a short time of usage?
Did anyone have access to his own car,whilst he was using the Hire Car,verification of his own cars mileage during this period?

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Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by Verdi on 19.08.16 0:07

Leveson Inquiry - Witness statement of David Pilditch December 2011.  News reporter for the Daily Express [snipped]..

Before the main course, thought I'd slip in this as a starter

David Pilditch:  "In the critical early hours and days after Madeleine McCann disappeared there were no public appeals...."

Gerry McCann speaks late 4th May 2007..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avf4jHNuzPU

Not a very good start - so much for accuracy, still on with the Murat saga.

David Pilditch:  "In their evidence the McCanns, referring to the press in general terms, said that many stories had been "made up" and that they did not believe "police  sources" were genuine. In the case of every story I wrote, the police sources I quoted were genuine.

I had three sources in Portugal who provided me with information. Two were Portuguese journalists who were in daily contact with the most senior officers investigating Madeleine McCann’s disappearance. The third was a translator who worked for the Portuguese Police and translating and interpreting in the Portuguese legal system...."

"Despite the barriers thrown up by the Portuguese criminal justice system, I was able to obtain an accurate and truthful insight into on-going developments within the police investigation at that time. Indeed, by this point in time, one of my contacts was informing me of day-to-day developments as they were taking place and before they were being written about in Portuguese newspapers. This enabled me to verify the accuracy of the information I was being given. For example, I was told of a series of operations and searches that would betaking place at particular times and on particular days - and was able to personally witness these events taking place...."

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20140122145147/http:/www.levesoninquiry.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Witness-Statement-of-David-Pilditch.pdf

So much for Portuguese secrecy laws (snort!) but that aside, could translator he refers to be Robert Murat?  I know there were other interpreters used for some of the witness statements taken but I believe they were Portuguese nationals - the person in close contact with David Pilditch I presume would have been English.

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Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by Tony Bennett on 19.08.16 7:25

Good posts indeed, April28th & Verdi.

All statements by Robert Murat, Michaela Walczuk and Jorge de Silva are very much worth re-examination in detail.

And NO, they did NOT spend hours and hours what was to go on the Romigen website!

Also, we shouldn't forget the Jehovah's Witnesses connection between Robert Murat, Michaela Walczuk and Brian Kennedy (he who built a Kingdom Church' for the JWs in Cheshire!). Many children in JW families have been sexually abused, there have been many scandals involving organised preying on the children of vulnerable JW families

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2007 (28 June) Dr Gerry McCann: “I have no doubt we will be able to sustain a high profile for Madeleine’s disappearance in the long-term”.

2017 (February) Dr Kate McCannthrust into a global bidding war…news giants battle to sign her up for the 10th anniversary…offered huge bids…bombarded with offers…30 sitting on the table…getting new bids every other day…one told Kate and Gerry: ‘Name your price!’
                        

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Re: Murat revisted: 2 - How did he become a PJ translator?

Post by Verdi on 19.08.16 12:31

Minister of Justice
POLICIA JUDICIARIA
Portimao Department of Criminal Investigation

Of the many elements collected, and pointing out, that at this moment in the investigation, the occurrence of an unusual situation, relative to an individual identified as Robert James Queriol Eveleigh Murat.

This individual, voluntarily, went to the GNR post alleging that he was an interpreter of the English language, and could be useful in helping to realise diligences. He was directed to the elements of this police which were at the locale.
Right on this day and on the following days, he helped in various diligences realised by this police, namely in the inquires of the British functionaries of the LOC.

At this point in time we noted immediately a strange comportment, especially with the press/media, alleging that he did not want to be photographed, or to make allusions to this presence.

We stress that at this time, we were contacted by various journalists, who alleged that they had noticed his strange comportment, and that he showed himself to be extremely curious. When they tired to capture his picture, he repudiated this vehemently, alleging that he was father to a little girl, the same age as Madeleine and was in the middle of a divorce.

Confronted with this incoherent comportment, Robert Murat, showed much nervousness and offered to stop providing services, if that was our desire.

For the investigative strategy, in order to better control and collect relevant elements, we opted to continue to use his services. Also via communication with the Leicester police authorities, the locale where the McCann family lives in the U.K., we were informed that an English reporter had suspicions regarding Robert, for the reason of his evasive comportment when she tried to take his picture and from a telephone call, which he said was to his daughter, making it in a loud voice, as if he wanted to demonstrate something.


Portimao, 13th May, 2007
The Inspector - Joao Carlos

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ROBERT-MURAT.htm

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