***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition
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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition
Or it could just be affectation?BarryTheHatchet wrote:The "praying Arab" gesture by the Mcs has always troubled me as well. It is a Masonic gesture and I have noticed several others by Gerry as well. But do I think they are being protected by Freemasons? No. Although I'm quite sure that Gerry hoped that they would be.
The reason I say this is because I come from a family with a very strong tradition of Freemasonry and I cannot think of one man, in either my father's or brother's lodges, who would assist in covering up the death of a child, even if it were accidental.
A Masonic "coverup" would just involve too many people to be practical.
In what way is it a masonic gesture? Not being au-fait with such matters I'm interested to learn in addition to the several other gestures you have noticed by Gerry.
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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition
Apparently the "praying arab" is a distress signal; TB mentioned I think on another thread? I do not know of any others however I am pretty sure there are many, like handshakes etc. You can google "Masonic signs" or "Freemason gestures" and it will come up with information.
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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition
It is the hailing sign of a Mason in distress, according to my brother who is an Almoner in his lodge.
There is a picture of Gerry standing under a banner of some sort, looking very defiant and pugilistic, with this hand down and the fingers clenched, that is one of the signs of an Entered Apprentice (not a Master Mason). Another one was the picture of Kate under a tree, with her hand clenching her own throat as though she is suffering from heartburn. Another sign of an entered apprentice.
And there are always the diagrams of the "wider agenda" on his Powerpoint. Square and compass.
As I am not a Mason myself then I am just going by what my brother (literal, not Masonic!) has pointed out. He did point out some more but I cannot remember them offhand. I can put them up when I remember or come across the pictures, if you are really that interested.
My brother's impression was that if Gerry is really a Mason, he hadn't been one for very long or he wouldn't have been quite so enthusiastic about doing these displays and drawing secret symbols on Powerpoints. Far too flambouyant and keen to impress. And shouldn't have been sharing his newly learned knowledge with his wife.
There is a picture of Gerry standing under a banner of some sort, looking very defiant and pugilistic, with this hand down and the fingers clenched, that is one of the signs of an Entered Apprentice (not a Master Mason). Another one was the picture of Kate under a tree, with her hand clenching her own throat as though she is suffering from heartburn. Another sign of an entered apprentice.
And there are always the diagrams of the "wider agenda" on his Powerpoint. Square and compass.
As I am not a Mason myself then I am just going by what my brother (literal, not Masonic!) has pointed out. He did point out some more but I cannot remember them offhand. I can put them up when I remember or come across the pictures, if you are really that interested.
My brother's impression was that if Gerry is really a Mason, he hadn't been one for very long or he wouldn't have been quite so enthusiastic about doing these displays and drawing secret symbols on Powerpoints. Far too flambouyant and keen to impress. And shouldn't have been sharing his newly learned knowledge with his wife.
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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition
Both GM and KM claim be devout Catholics. As such, there is no chance that they are Masons. The Church explicitly forbids it, and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith issued a Declaration on this very subject in 1983.
"The Declaration asserts clearly that “the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic association remains unchanged, since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion."
http://catholicexchange.com/can-catholics-become-freemasons
Any 'masonic' gestures or displays are either coincidental, done for effect or to simulate an emotion that is not truly being felt. IMO the whole Mason angle is a giant red herring (consumable by preference on a Friday).
"The Declaration asserts clearly that “the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic association remains unchanged, since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion."
http://catholicexchange.com/can-catholics-become-freemasons
Any 'masonic' gestures or displays are either coincidental, done for effect or to simulate an emotion that is not truly being felt. IMO the whole Mason angle is a giant red herring (consumable by preference on a Friday).
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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition
"Not allowed to be a mason" is right up there with "not allowed to be use contraceptives".
Catholics do what they please these days.
Most Catholics cherry-pick.
The Catholic Church isn't what it used to be.
As Pope Francis recently said "who am I to judge".... well except when someone does something he doesn't like (which is most likely something traditional).
Catholics do what they please these days.
Most Catholics cherry-pick.
The Catholic Church isn't what it used to be.
As Pope Francis recently said "who am I to judge".... well except when someone does something he doesn't like (which is most likely something traditional).
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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition
"Devout Catholics" wouldn't use IVF, or hire an Anglican Church to hold a mass. The "Devout Catholic" angle is a much bigger red herring, imo.
Gerry is very good at making a little connection go a long way. He's appealing to Catholics with the rosary beads and (tatty) prayer cards, he's appealing to the Freemasons with his clumsy Masonic displays and he's appealing to Celtic fans with his corporate colours. It's all rubbish imo. He's making the most of his marketing ploys.
An early attempt was appealing to mothers of toddlers who all wanted a matching cuddlecat. I wonder if Saint Clarence told him that it wasn't appropriate. Much like the proposed pictures of Kate by the pool, in a bikini. Appealing to the readers of lads' mags, presumably.
Gerry is very good at making a little connection go a long way. He's appealing to Catholics with the rosary beads and (tatty) prayer cards, he's appealing to the Freemasons with his clumsy Masonic displays and he's appealing to Celtic fans with his corporate colours. It's all rubbish imo. He's making the most of his marketing ploys.
An early attempt was appealing to mothers of toddlers who all wanted a matching cuddlecat. I wonder if Saint Clarence told him that it wasn't appropriate. Much like the proposed pictures of Kate by the pool, in a bikini. Appealing to the readers of lads' mags, presumably.
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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition
BarryTheHatchet wrote:"Devout Catholics" wouldn't use IVF, or hire an Anglican Church to hold a mass.
The wishy-washy Catholics of today would because they no longer know Church history or their beliefs.
They are not taught anything of this from the pulpit.
Anything goes.
In 1928 Catholics were banned by the Pope - in an encyclical called "Mortalium Animos" - from attending any religious service except a Catholic one right up to the 1970s when Catholics were suddenly supposed to forget that a POPE had infallibly decreed it.
The McCanns have not done anything particularly "non-Catholic" by the standards of Catholic church-goers.
"Devout" these days means they go to Church... if they feel like it.
I speak as an ex-Catholic who once took it all seriously until I read enough Church history and realised it was a shell game.
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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition
Yes, you could start a new topic about that in the Debate Section https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/f31-debate-section-for-purporting-theoriesBarryTheHatchet wrote:It is the hailing sign of a Mason in distress, according to my brother who is an Almoner in his lodge.
There is a picture of Gerry standing under a banner of some sort, looking very defiant and pugilistic, with this hand down and the fingers clenched, that is one of the signs of an Entered Apprentice (not a Master Mason). Another one was the picture of Kate under a tree, with her hand clenching her own throat as though she is suffering from heartburn. Another sign of an entered apprentice.
And there are always the diagrams of the "wider agenda" on his Powerpoint. Square and compass.
As I am not a Mason myself then I am just going by what my brother (literal, not Masonic!) has pointed out. He did point out some more but I cannot remember them offhand. I can put them up when I remember or come across the pictures, if you are really that interested.
My brother's impression was that if Gerry is really a Mason, he hadn't been one for very long or he wouldn't have been quite so enthusiastic about doing these displays and drawing secret symbols on Powerpoints. Far too flambouyant and keen to impress. And shouldn't have been sharing his newly learned knowledge with his wife.
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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition
And then Kate's own mother rubbished that claim by saying "They're not the most devout family"Bishop Brennan wrote:Both GM and KM claim be devout Catholics. As such, there is no chance that they are Masons. The Church explicitly forbids it, and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith issued a Declaration on this very subject in 1983.
"The Declaration asserts clearly that “the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic association remains unchanged, since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion."
http://catholicexchange.com/can-catholics-become-freemasons
Any 'masonic' gestures or displays are either coincidental, done for effect or to simulate an emotion that is not truly being felt. IMO the whole Mason angle is a giant red herring (consumable by preference on a Friday).
http://joana-morais.blogspot.co.uk/2008/09/maddie-case-first-interview-to-kates.html
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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition
Where have the McCanns ever claimed that they are devout Catholics?
It's a forum myth, IMO.
It's a forum myth, IMO.
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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition
I think it maybe started because lots of papers described them as "devout Catholics" in the earliest days.
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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition
Let's keep this thread on topic, please.
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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition
Ladyinred wrote:Where have the McCanns ever claimed that they are devout Catholics?
It's a forum myth, IMO.
They did use the 'devout' card imo. Remember the saintly picture of Kate and the headline.
"Devout Catholic Kate McCann had her faith rocked by her daughters disappearance"
That article in The Standard was one whereby she was interviewed personally and plugged her book.
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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition
Tomorrow sees one calendar month since Tony Bennett posted-up his outstanding extensive communication with the Prime Minister at 10 Downing Street.
Summer recess is fast approaching - come on Mr. Prime Minister, you owe the electorate an explanation. Surely you've got an under-secretary somewhere twiddling their thumbs.
Summer recess is fast approaching - come on Mr. Prime Minister, you owe the electorate an explanation. Surely you've got an under-secretary somewhere twiddling their thumbs.
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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition
oh well then it will be well into the Autumn probably before Tony gets a reply.
Too busy with the Referendrum no doubt, trying to scare everyone with bleak forecasts for us all.
Over 3,000 signatures and many many people interested in hearing news but do they care, DO THEY ECK AS LIKE.
If we leave EU he will prob be facing a backlash from his own party and might not even be Prime Minister, so yes, GET A MOVE ON with a response.
Too busy with the Referendrum no doubt, trying to scare everyone with bleak forecasts for us all.
Over 3,000 signatures and many many people interested in hearing news but do they care, DO THEY ECK AS LIKE.
If we leave EU he will prob be facing a backlash from his own party and might not even be Prime Minister, so yes, GET A MOVE ON with a response.
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Holding reply from the Prime Minister
This was the reply from the Prime Minister's Correspondence Unit.sharonl wrote:Update on Tony's letter
Tony is unable to access the internet at the moment but he has just sent me a message which he has asked me to share with you.
He has received, from David Cameron, a holding reply dated 6th May 2016, which ends with "your correspondence is being considered".
Tony expects a more detailed reply in due course.
I am expecting a fuller reply in due course:
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Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"
Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".
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Final reply to the petition - from Rt Hon Mike Penning, Minister of State for Policing
Here is the final reply to the petition - from Rt Hon Mike Penning M.P, Minister of State at the Home Office for Policing, Fire, Criminal Justice and Victims.
It's probably rather less than I hoped, since the main purpose of the petition was to get across the need for a report to the public, in view of the huge amount of pomp and money which so far has achieved nothing but perpetuate the official abduction line for over 5 years. There is not a word about any report, just a comment that 'an investigation is ongoing', so 'we can't really say anything'.
But, as they say, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
There are ways we can follow this up.
Thank you one final time to everyone who signed and or promoted the petition.
One final comment: I'm surprised at the estimate of expenditure for 2016-7 only being £95,000 - that's barely enough to cover DCI Nicola Wall's salary plus pension contributions for a year, let alone employing any other staff, doing any 'investigation' or making even more trips to Portugal. It might suggest that they are moving towards 'closure'.
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It's probably rather less than I hoped, since the main purpose of the petition was to get across the need for a report to the public, in view of the huge amount of pomp and money which so far has achieved nothing but perpetuate the official abduction line for over 5 years. There is not a word about any report, just a comment that 'an investigation is ongoing', so 'we can't really say anything'.
But, as they say, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
There are ways we can follow this up.
Thank you one final time to everyone who signed and or promoted the petition.
One final comment: I'm surprised at the estimate of expenditure for 2016-7 only being £95,000 - that's barely enough to cover DCI Nicola Wall's salary plus pension contributions for a year, let alone employing any other staff, doing any 'investigation' or making even more trips to Portugal. It might suggest that they are moving towards 'closure'.
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Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"
Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".
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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition
Thanks Tony and well done once again. As expected really.
Keep dancing as always.
Keep dancing as always.
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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition
Oh the very devil when you cannot c/p a section........................Tony Bennett wrote:Here is the final reply to the petition - from Rt Hon Mike Penning M.P, Minister of State at the Home Office for Policing, Fire, Criminal Justice and Victims.
It's probably rather less than I hoped, since the main purpose of the petition was to get across the need for a report to the public, in view of the huge amount of pomp and money which so far has achieved nothing but perpetuate the official abduction line for over 5 years. There is not a word about any report, just a comment that 'an investigation is ongoing', so 'we can't really say anything'.
But, as they say, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
There are ways we can follow this up.
Thank you one final time to everyone who signed and or promoted the petition.
One final comment: I'm surprised at the estimate of expenditure for 2016-7 only being £95,000 - that's barely enough to cover DCI Nicola Wall's salary plus pension contributions for a year, let alone employing any other staff, doing any 'investigation' or making even more trips to Portugal. It might suggest that they are moving towards 'closure'.
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Quote...............
Although most of these cases may not be in the public eye, unresolved missing children cases are never closed and they remain the responsibility of the of individual police forces until the child is found..........
So which police force would that be then?
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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition
NO 'mention' of 'a abduction', nae, 'THE abduction' (of Madeleine McCann) from the Minister of State for Policing in his 'reply' then?
'unresolved missing', 'disappearance', 'the investigation of Madeleine's disappearance'
Hmmm.
'unresolved missing', 'disappearance', 'the investigation of Madeleine's disappearance'
Hmmm.
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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition
I've only just spotted this - it deserves a place of honour in it's own right.
Frankly didn't expect a miracle by way of an in-depth honest informative response but this is beyond the pale. The office of circumlocution at it's finest!
I'm surprised that your missive Tony, wasn't passed down the line to a Right 'Orrible Clarence Mitchell Esq for reply. Still, it's documented for posterity along with this abysmally evasive response, as proof at least that the authorities have no intention of ever being straight as regards the case of little Madeleine McCann - lost and forgotten by those who should care leaving but a sham.
Frankly didn't expect a miracle by way of an in-depth honest informative response but this is beyond the pale. The office of circumlocution at it's finest!
I'm surprised that your missive Tony, wasn't passed down the line to a Right 'Orrible Clarence Mitchell Esq for reply. Still, it's documented for posterity along with this abysmally evasive response, as proof at least that the authorities have no intention of ever being straight as regards the case of little Madeleine McCann - lost and forgotten by those who should care leaving but a sham.
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Similar topics
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